My chat with Rachel: Pondering the meaning of the rise of the militias
[H/t Heather]
Rachel Maddow featured a segment last night on her MSNBC show questioning just how far removed from mainstream conservatism the resurgent militias -- embodied by the recently busted Hutaree militia in the Midwest -- really are.
Right-wingers like Bill O'Reilly are adamant that the militias have nothing to do with the Tea Parties and, by extension, the mainstream conservative party.
I had some trouble hearing Maddow, so I kind of blew a couple of the questions. To be clear:
-- What I expect at the April 19 militia march on Washington is, essentially, a smaller Tea Party with guns.
-- The main threat posed by the militias is not to average citizens but to law-enforcement personnel, who inevitably are the first people to have contact with these extremists that provokes violence. Inevitably, innocent bystanders will be involved as well, as they were on April 19, 1995. And the truth is, your average American is far more likely to be harmed by a right-wing domestic terrorist than an international terrorist.
But the chief reason to fear violent militiamen is the threat they pose to our law-enforcement officers, and from a broader perspective, the toxic effect their acts have on our society and the ability of average citizens to feel safe.
In any event, I thought it was a useful discussion, even if the points I wanted to make weren't as sharp as I'd have liked.
i have noticed several instances over the past several days of behind-the-scenes issues with TRMS... odd
anyway, good job david, thanks for your work in helping to expose these threats
I'd still love to have someone point me to ANY militia group which normal Americans shouldn't be concerned with.
Many of these fringe groups appear to be reincarnations of the KKK.
If you want to own guns, great.
If some of you haven't see the Robin Williams movie "The Survivalists", you need to watch it.
Although it's old, it's uncanny how many of the reasons for him becoming part of a militia/survivalist group are still true today.
people who are stopped in their cars who have Obama stickers...With conceal carry permits this is a VERY combustible situation that palin the quitter and the klan have called for[ article at TPM]..Do not know anyone in my rural hometown in Oklahoma who would put up with being accosted in the road without repercussions!
Militia on the whole are just men playing commando with Napolean complexes but the fringes are really dangerous!!!!
With this most recent arrest of these guys, I'm wondering if it might keep some of the others from showing up on the 19th or will it piss more people off causing even more of them to show up? I guess we will just have to wait and see.
As you said, the police are going to have to deal with whomever shows up and I sure hope they are prepared.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
but, like you wrote, we'll see
i am very curious to see how the police are fitted (whether or not they are using/deploying sound weapons, microwave guns, full riot gear, shields, helos, snipers, machine guns, dogs, etc.) to handle the advance on DC by the militants. compare it to the stormtrooper-esque footing that the "police" had in pittsburgh for the G20. it will be an interesting comparison.
Is that I spend a lot of time walking and bicycling on dirt roads and woods very close to where these people live, and they had - according to the indictment - decided that in their "dress rehearsal," or whatever, they would kill any civilian who got in their way. So much for early morning, pre-sunrise walks with the dogs. (I've actually flushed out guys in blackface and camo gear from my property before.)
What's really funny is that just before the raids, two of these folks (including one who was arrested) were reported on in a local newspaper story about how the Michigan Militia was being so helpful to a local township supervisor, and they were just ordinary folks like you and me: http://******/99r8XD - seriously.
I want to start a liberal militia. Give us some balance.
Here's the sign up sheet,
1.
I don't think I would qualify. I don't have a gun and have never shot one or had any desire to shoot one. I do have my little Yorkie, Martini, but he loves everyone so he would be of no use in a moment of attack.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
... if we were attacked by walking carrots.
That's true. Carrots of the world you are on notice, especially if there is a smile sewn on your face.
Shit, as I wrote that I realized it sounds just as silly as these militias saying the are there to defend the country. They might as well say they are preparing for an attack by walking smiling carrots.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Oh great. POP is starting a War on Vegetables.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
and it kinda looks like blood
... with these guys? What would it prove? What would it solve?
On the other hand, maybe starting a truly independent and objective media might achieve something ...
Why do we need any of these militia groups? Anyone who calls him or herself a member of such a group scares the hell out of me.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
"A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right to bear arms shall not be infringed."
So, if they hold drills every month and have action plans, they must be well-regulated! They must be able to carry whatever guns they want! Hooooyah! Time to shoot us some commies!
..who gets to decide what "well-regulated" means? And, how does an individual get to carry a gun if not in a well-regulated militia? Just askin'
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
I think it has something to do with eating green vegetables.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
That's why they call them military movements.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Typical militia member
Isn't that what the National Guard is?
The amendment is surely the least-grammatical piece of prose on the planet, but it does seem clear that if militias are to have guns, they must be well-regulated. Presumably by the states. So if the Michigan Militias are not subject to the Michigan government's laws and regs, they should not be able to possess and use firearms. I really haven't followed the constitutional issues very closely in detail, but I haven't seen this issue raised. Seems this is a good argument FOR state gun control laws.
..constitutional issues but ever since I heard the phrase, I've always wondered. I can't believe its not that much of stretch for someone like J. Turley who is knowledgable and I'll bet he could school us on it very well.
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
What does that mean?? I'm serious. Who would do the well-regulating?? The State, the Feds or some rambo/ramboette??
Seems like this needs a definition. At least for me.
but do not be afraid. They want you to be afraid and if you're not it gives them little to build on.
If I don't get that cake you owe me, then you'll have something to be afraid about.
I only fear the members of the militias.
Yeah, about that cake.......... (it tasted great) :)
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Am I going to have to come down there?
..I'm not like them; I don't hate America and what its supposed to stand for-all people created equal and subject to the laws of the land. Hear that, w?
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
ruining conservatism's credibility for the next decade, as Dave suggests, the extremists are giving moderates an opportunity to move even further to the right while still appearing relatively liberal, which in turn even further marginalizes the actual Left. Soon, our two parties will be Right and Extreme Right, with no viable representation on the Left. We're pretty much there already.
Rush Limbaugh doing his job and doing it well. "Government is bad!" A _real_ revolution that wasn't a postmodern, schizoid Mickey Mouse ship of fools would target the _corporations_ who hire the politicians who hire law enforcement.
I can hear Lenin now shouting, "Workers! Shrug off your chains!! We won't stop until there isn't a neighborhood cop on your beat!!!" I think the movement there is called "anarchy." Just shows how rootless and clueless these people are.
This country was founded by those same scary, terrible, evil, frightening, "militias." The National guard was organized out of those "Militias." If you look at law of the land the U.S. code Title 10311 and Title 10332, Militias are sanctioned by the government as lawful entities that all people in the U.S. have a responsibility to recognize.
Because the key phrase, 'well-regulated' implies government as the regulating authority, for the express purpose of making sure some goofball doesn't hear voices from on high and invent his own private language for his militia name and ranks.
Otherwise, since I am a gun owner, I thus declare myself a militia, and you must respect my authorit-ay.
I was not citing the 2nd ammendment. I was citing U.S. Code. The law of the land. Read it. It does not say well regulated militia. READ. Especially the part about the "unorganized milita." Logic is your friend.
READ
... upholds my argument. They are not recognized de-facto on the basis of 'Hey, we're a militia!' but by meeting standards of regulation as imposed by the government.
I misused that word my mistake. The government recognizes the militias it does not have the authority to sanction them.
READ the U.S. Code:
Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Chew on that. I'll check back later, Jack.
Perhaps it's just poor communication. Citing the code is nice, but quoting it is better, and linking to it better still.
Jack.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
This one has been waved around before, and it's STILL horseshit.
That the law recognizes and sanctions the militia IMPLIES that such personnel are and remain answerable to the United States Government, bound by its laws, and to the chain of command.
It does NOT provide an excuse for haphazard formation or qualification as a militia.
Your troll status was confirmed by the snarky 'slow reader' remark.
. . . but not on the militia. The law flat out states the the militia is basically every male of age and every female in the Guard.
Moreover, there is no need to imply anything. If Second Amendment rights were limited to the government run Guard (which didn't exist in the 18th Century) they could have simply said so. Instead, Second Amendment rights were specifically reserved for "the people."
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Pt. 2 explicity states members of militia who are not part of the Ntional guard. When I say read, I mean the whole thing. But it is a nice start to see you actually using that cognitive ability.
As I just wrote above, with added emphasis for those who have not played Hooked on Phonics lately:
Oh, and fuck you buddy. One more crack like that and I'll stop being so nice.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
U.S. CODE 10311:
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Unorganized militia's are recognized by the US govt. Plain as day. They are not members of the guard. But they do exist and are recognized. U.S. gov't does not oversee their formation and therefore does not "sanction them." They are "unorganized"
I love the fact that you quoted yourself, like that is somehow persuasive! LOL!
Have you even read section Title 10332 yet?
Please get angry. I can roll all day Buck.
That's why I quoted myself. You obviously didn't read it the first time.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Circle one:
According to the U.S Code:
A. All militia members are part of the guard?
B. Not all militia members are part of the guard, some are unorganized.
B/C this is what you said twice above:
"The law flat out states the the militia is basically every male of age and every female in the Guard"
see the confusion?
The militia is the Guards and every male citizen of age.
The only females included are in the Guards.
It's not rocket science. Once again, with additional emphasis for the deliberately obtuse:
Care to explain how that is in any way different than the statute?
Check out sub-part (a). You quoted it; perhaps you should have read it.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Bit of a cheap way of getting everyone to see that the militia is basically a lot of people according to the U.S. Code. Not those just joining up in the Guard.
They have the right (not the privilege) to form a militia.
Organized or unorganized, that means a militia is answerable to the government, period, end of it. You don't get to set your own ROE, decide who is an enemy of America or not, 'activate' your unit on a whim or because Jesus said so.
If the law intended for anyone and everyone to 'be part of the militia,' we'd all be doing mandatory service like the Israelis.
I'm not saying the law intends everybody to be part of the militia, I'm saying the law flat out says it, and it has since the Constitution (although in the late 18th Century the militia was more limited as were voting rights - e.g. white, land-owning males).
Moreover, the right to bear arms is not limited to those in a well regulated militia. If that were the case, it would be quite easy to have said so. But the only thing the Second Amendment says about a well regulated militia is that is necessary to the security of a free state. The right to bear arms is reserved to the people.
I'm noticing that I seem to have strayed a bit from militias to the right to bear arms and may have mistaken your point. If so, never mind :)
Corruption favors the wealthy.
... that militias are regulated, and that regulation is vested in the United States Government.
whatever you want as long as you don't violate state, city or federal laws according to the U.S. Code. Its called freedom Jack.
I know its scarry in your little white guilt complex world to think that there are people out there training and talking to their neighbors about what precautions to take if their republic is subverted, but they are out their just like the sons of liberty in 1776, you Tory.
You don't get to decide what is lawful or not just cause your lilly white soft hands have never touched a gun before. Men still have the freedom to be men. And if forming an unorganized militia is the way they express that then fine. Just like you have the freedom to form a pilates class and talk about your feelings.
the 18th century colonial militias were formed and existed to fight for the independence from english rule. today's militia's are a combination of those who like to play dress-up and shoot assault weapons and those who want to violently overthrow the govt.
not really the same
I want law enforcement officers to tase the nuts of these gun packing inbred hillbillies. Normally I'm against the use of tasers but in this case I'll make an exception. Cops love,love,love to use their tasers. I want them to dwell on the fact that the teascrotes want to do them harm, not like the grannies,children, mental patients, smart mouth people, you know ,the ones that usually get tased. And I want them to feel free to tase them repeatedly because they have guns clearly visible and that's a threat. Tase em like it was your birthday coppers. Tase, tase, tase and when your trigger finger gets tired, switch hands and keep on tasing.
Before the Oklahoma City bombing by McVeich and Nichols, many of the Fascist republicans were holding hands with the militia groups and providing them with immoral encouragement with their "almost Nazi" rhetoric. They bear responsibility for the deaths of those 168 men, women, and children.
... the nine people who got shot in Washington, D.C. this morning.
... the casualties of the four separate suicide bombings in Russia. (That's not OUR domestic, but it's THEIR domestic.)
... Dr. George Tiller.
... the police gunned down by Richard Poplawski.
... and so on.
The chances of my being in a car crash in Bagdhad are negligible if I never go to Bagdhad. On the other hand, that doesn't rule out a car crash in my home city.
... feared that Obama was gonna a-come and get his guns. He specifically planned to take out law enforcement officials by way of resisting/affecting that 'policy'.
He is a domestic terrorist.
If you brush away the milky outer skin of the militias, you will find the crunchy KKK at the center.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Yes. You're right. The FBI is in total control of everything.
They even planned the election of Obama.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
You're running on all cylinders today.
Hmmm...ur right...I see the initials GS inscribed on my Flintstones vitamin...hmmm....i wonder....
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
and have you ever noticed that the initials GS appear in the acronym GPS?
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
:)
... a yellow Ryder truck parked next to a bunch of other yellow Ryder trucks. It's a conspiracy!
and I've also seen the alien autopsy video and pictures of bigfoot.
I heard from someone that Bigfoot IS an alien, and that he's under the control of the FBI.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
You mean it's not true?
Which part?
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
You're funny
http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS...
Why would the federal government want to blow up one of its own buildings? What would the motive have been? How did the ATF or whoever profit from the Oklahoma City Bombing?
you certainly tried to avoid answering that question
Why yes I have.
I also heard that 4 out of 5 dentists prefer Crest.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
I'm asking about the Oklahoma City Bombing. The motive behind the Gulf of Tonkin incident was that the Johnson administration wanted an excuse to escalate the war in Vietnam. But that wasn't my question, was it? How did the ATF profit by orchestrating the Oklahoma City Bombing? What was the ATF's motive? Why did they do it? What goal did it accomplish?
Is my question clear now?
Just because a bill was ready does not mean the bill was the cause or the motivation for the attack.
Check out Naomi Klein's Shock Doctrine. You can find it here or read a synopsis here. (BTW the blue words are "links").
It the book she describes how disasters are taken advantage of by those in power to impose things that the public would simply not accept during normal times.
Taking advantage of these disasters, however, is a far cry from causing them.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Maybe Loose Change?
I've given you a link on how to use html. The C&L menu makes it even easier. Would you care for a link on how to use WordPress?
Or are you so ashamed of your source material that you're aware that it would be ripped to shreds two minutes after we're able to stop laughing?
Prove me wrong. All it takes is a link or two.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
We could use a laugh.
You haven't got squat.
Have a nice day.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
But that's not a link.
And you're done wasting my time.
Good day.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
And Orly Taitz has Obama's real birth certificate, proving he was born in Kenya.
Oh, wait. That was a forgery.
But, no. It was reported by the media.
It must be a conspiracy to cover up the conspiracy spawned by the conspirators behind all the other conspiracies throughout history!
Would you like an even more basic html lesson?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Fly in, make a lot of noise, shit all over the place ...
Fiver is not obligated to DISPROVE your pet website's claims; you are required to PROVE them, which is not the same as directing me to read the One True Source.
As Atrios might say: "The stupid, it burns."
I was right. You haven't got squat. AE******** has been debunked so easily and so often that they refuse to allow comments at their site.
While pointing out the numerous ways these particular troofers have gotten their ass kicked up and down the intertubes might be tedious, here's one example, with video, that destroys their theories on Building 7 - effortlessly.
[Sorry sitemonitor, I usually try to ignore the troofer bait, but this was just too easy]
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I believe there is definitely more to the various stories like 9/11 than is being reported in the mainstream media. However, fertymets & butcherofballyhoo began their trolling by defending the dangerous, goofball militia movement. Somehow, the debate shifted to 9/11, etc. I guess because the goofball militia whack nuts are indefensible.
Even if 9/11 was an inside job or a terror cell infiltration gone wrong or whatever, I can't for the life of me see how that translates into a justification for using IEDs to kill police officers or stage an armed demonstration at the capitol or any of the other looney toons ideas emanating from these knuckle dragger, white trash neanderthals.
... that you are nothing but a tool, a wind-up toy set loose to scurry about the floor and make cute little ZAP! noises, but of no importance and ultimately no threat to the people who could easily put Polonium in your breakfast cereal.
I don't need vast conspiracies to explain disasters. All I need is to understand that man is a savage animal for all his pretense at civilization, willing to kill for the illusions of fame, fortune, and faith.
but sources none.
Your posts are wasted bandwidth.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
I never realized that the method of collapse determines the rate of collapse.
Gee...and here I thought gravity was a constant.
But what do I know. I mean..I thought Bigfoot was an alien.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
For info on historical use of false flags by intelligence agencies:
1. NATO's Secret Armies: Operation GLADIO and Terrorism in Western Europe, Daniele Ganser.
2. The War On Truth: 9/11, Disinformation And The Anatomy Of Terrorism, Nafeez Ahmed.
Oh...so it's not possible that a piece of legislation was suddenly brought to the forefront BECAUSE a particular incident created the politically expedient atmosphere to do it, rather than that incident being PLANNED and PERPETRATED by the government.
Sheesh...if you've clarified anything...I am now firmly confident that while I am wholly a cynic, I have not yet passed into full fledged paranoia.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
~
Corruption favors the wealthy.
There was a Ryder truck parked on my block the day of the Oklahoma City explosion.
Perhaps it had a remote in it. The driver looked like an ordinary guy...not some kind of FBI plant...but wait....they're masters of disguise!
FUCK! Wait...the Ryder truck at the base is tooo obvious. I heard there was a U-Haul parked around the other side of the base. BRILLIANT!
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
And I was bringing in the live shots via satellite on the day of Oklahoma City.
You are full of shit.
~
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Links.
Mmmmm . . . links.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
There wasn't any BUILDING to have devices in.
It. Got. Blown. Up.
The Counter terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, it was the first Patriot Act back in 1996. Clinton was having trouble passing this and then bingo, OKC and then it passed without a whimper. There is one benefit. Not to mention massive ATF budgets, a war on constitutionalist, and a reason for you spoonfed surface dwellers to demonize people who love the constitution.
if you need help nailing yourself to that cross, let me know, i can drive steel like nobody's biz
wannabe soldiers are actually convicted felons in possession of firearms, in violation of their terms of parole. I'd bet there are quite a few; they could be rounded up and taken in on weapons charges/parole violations charges overnight.
And good job there, Dave.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
I'd really like to know if these people have proper private health insurance coverage. Of if they're livin' off the public dole by going to the ER every time they forget to set the safety and shoot one of their nuts off.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
If you look closely at most "terrorist plots" you always find fbi/counter-terrorism provocateurs at the core stiring up trouble. Never fails. But that requires people actually reading the news at a deeper level and everyone her C&L are spoonfed surface dwellers. Sad really.
what, now we are being lectured by CHUD?
oy...
. . . but how would either one of you know? One of you just arrived in the past day, the other in the past hour.
It's not like either of you is making some novel argument that hasn't been made many times before here.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
I love g-mail, hotmail, yahoo mail. I can be whoever I want!
But...do you think the FBI knows that all of them are me? I mean...I'm sure they are the power behind the money of Google and Yahoo and all the others.
They know I'm posting right now. Ohh...I think I need to pee. But...they know that too...and they know where I go to pee...they may even be behind the glass...watching me...oh..ohhhh
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
If you guys are so keen on dismissing our arguements b/c you have dealt with guys like us before. You are really having an off day. Seems like you cannot ply your skills today. B//c your logic is being destryed Samson. Maybe you just got a haircut?
... the same, tired, disproven arguments run around the block by right-wing idiots who choose to deliberately misinterpret the Constitution and the law to suit their dress-up fantasies of re-enacting Red Dawn.
... and because you are just another troll in a long line of trolls who insist that they know what is really happening in the world. Me, I work in the television news business, and I can unabashedly say you're full of shit, because I don't have access to a nefarious mind control ray, and George Soros isn't paying me six figures.
I'm not dismissing your arguments, Einstein. I've made them and am making them on this very thread.
If you actually knew anything about C&L, you'd know that I'm not alone.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
the word is 'provoke'
and, of course, the fbi does that stuff. see several of the recent "terror" arrests, and the involvement of the feds in pushing people to commit acts that might not have otherwise committed.
but, you jump to so many conclusions, so many conspiraces, so many illogical ideas as to make yourself not credible. at all.
just b/c the fbi has done such things does not mean, in any way, that there aren't threats from the rightwing militants that need to be addressed. one does not preclude the other
which militia do you run with? just out of curiousity.
that miltias should never be scrutinized but lets apply that same scrutiny to the FBI,CIA, DIA, Army Intelligence, NSA, etc. Agree?
Yes, let's build another layer of security over our security agencies.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Fertymets and I do it. How about you guys pitch in sometime.
Try it; you might like it.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Question. Are FBI agents all reptilians? Or do they also use humans? Are those humans under mind control? Or are they simply well rewarded for their service?
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Thought so.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
you, like your ideological pal, have jumped to so many conclusions and made unfounded assumptions about everyone here, that you might not have noticed that many people here have been, for years, critical of those agencies. you act as if we are fans of the patriot act, that we like domestic spying, that we are all for the militarized govt. most here don't. thanks.
signed,
spoonfed surface dweller
I love redheads. Does that mean that my covert mission is to prevent blondes and brunettes from dating?
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
to fit such a swollen dome
you have been a member for just over an hour and you already "know" what people are about
too bad you can't change your screen name, as everyone reading your kneejerking will immediately find you shrill, insulting and ignorant.
good luck with that.
I forgot to mention. I applied for a job with the FBI, sent a resume to the CIA, and had my blog examined by the NSA.
I was then kidnapped and taken to a secret location deep underground where a chip was implanted in my brain, then I was sent back to serve my extraterrestrial masters in the Trilateral Bilderberger Commission so that they can continue their dominance over surface-dwellers.
You are not part of the elite. Bow down before your masters.
No anal probe? Bummer. ;o)
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Besides, the prototype got stuck inside some asshole named Limbaugh, and then it became sentient.
I understand there's a plan to make Sarah Palin the object of male desire. Seems to have worked quite nicely on Bill Kristol and Rich Lowry.
Yes, of course. But that doesn't mean the semi-retarded idiots didn't already exist and pose a threat. Look at it this way: I have seen security personnel at nightclubs badly mis-handle unruly patrons and cause or allow disputes disintigrate into avoidable violence, but that doesn't mean the unruly patrons weren't causing trouble or threatening others.
The FBI, DIA et al. have sure bungled their share of operations, sometimes with deadly results, but that's different than aiding and abetting.
Semi-retarded idiots are everywhere, and many of them are in militias.
if there's a conspiracy in any of this stuff, it's the conspiracy among the media to not properly report on the threat posed by these militia whackaloons. The same conspiracy that gives endless coverage to the 400 protesting teabaggers but completely ignores the 500,000 anti-war demonstrators.
And, as Dave pointed out in the video segment, if these nine dipshits had been Muslim (or I would add environmentalists) we'd be hearing "terrorist, terrorist, terrorist," but since they're white "christians" there's no use of the dreaded T-word.
Thanks, Big Daddy.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Because evidently these "semi-r******* idiots" are still able to link their sources when challenged.
fertymets OTOH, not so much.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Link please.
You have zero credibility here . . . and apparently zero sourcing as well.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
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