On 'Reliable Sources,' David Zurawik decries heated cable talk by shrieking about MSNBC's 'fascism'
By David Neiwert Monday May 25, 2009 10:00am
If you want an example of how "centrism" is its own specially blinkered ideology, check out the rant from David Zurawik, the Baltimore Sun's media critic, yesterday on CNN's Reliable Sources with Howard Kurtz:
OLBERMANN: You saved no one, Mr. Cheney. All you did was help kill Americans.
In the name of God, go.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KURTZ: David Zurawik, what do you make of a cable culture where some of these anchors and hosts get really, really mad, or upset or emotional, and it seems to work for them?
ZURAWIK: Howie, they're speaking for a visceral response. And honestly -- I don't want to overstate this, Howie, and you know from time to time I do -- risk that. But it's really that path lies fascism.
I mean, what we need as a democracy is reliable information. This is the opposite of it.
And by the way, that clip of Olbermann just really, I think, encapsulates it. This is a bizarro world or cartoon version of Edward R. Murrow with the cadence and this arch rhetoric and all this, but he is saying madman stuff.
So, heated debate is the sign of fascism? Sounds like Zurawick has been reading Jonah Goldberg.
A clue for David Zurawick: Keith Olbermann may have been contentious and even tendentious, but there's a factual case behind his observations that Dick Cheney likely did not save any lives -- after all, 3,000 Americans died on his watch on 9/11, and there is simply no public evidence whatsoever that the measures he enacted afterward actually thwarted any serious terrorist acts -- and his actions in promoting the invasion of Iraq in fact cost thousands of American lives, and over a hundred thousand Iraqi civilians' lives.
That's called robust debate. Fascism, on the other hand, entails the antithesis of debate -- it argues for the elimination of the opposition, not engagement. And it acts accordingly. When we see Keith Olbermann organizing or simply encouraging street thugs to go out and beat up Dick Cheney and his supporters, then he might have a legitimate concern about fascism.
Moreover, there's nothing quite as overheated, as contentious and tendentious, as calling people fascists, is there? -- particularly when you use the term as carelessly and thoughtlessly as Zurawick does here. Hello, pot, meet kettle.
But the really bizarre aspect of this is that Zurawick is really most upset about MSNBC in general, who he attacked throughout the segment (he doesn't like their weekend fill-in programming, but exactly what kind of media critic tries to claim that fill-in programming is evidence that MSNBC doesn't staff its national bureaus? Besides an utterly ignorant one, that is?).
Moreover, Zurawick seems to think the MSNBC invented the ideologically leaning opinion-news format that has him so worked up:
ZURAWIK: It's not therapeutic. They really target people, their opposition.
Even Rachel Maddow, who is the nicest, with her snide smile and arched eyebrow and mocking, they target people and hold them up for ridicule. It's exactly what happened in propaganda in the '30s in Europe. I'm not kidding you.
...
ASHBURN: And I think that's true. I also think that the bottom line is this is not good for society. I mean, this constant inflammation and fighting on issues, you learn in kindergarten that this is the way you're supposed to behave.
ZURAWIK: You're absolutely right. I couldn't agree more with that.
The effect on society and on this democracy of this angry, polarizing, bitter kind of putdown conversation is dangerous. And it's from the very people who say they're news channels.
Just wondering:
Has Zurawick managed to tune in Fox News at any point in the past 13 years?
Has he happened to notice that their entire style over those years has been predicated on "targeting people and holding them up for ridicule"?
Has he ever clued into the fact that "putdown conversation" is what not just Fox but all of talk radio is predicated upon?
And during those years -- before MSNBC dropped the "Fox lite" routine and forged its own path -- has Zurawick ever managed to point out what Fox was doing was "exactly what happened in propaganda in the '30s in Europe"?
The answer, of course, is "Nope."
Because for "centrists" -- who largely are just conservatives who can't stomach the racism and bigotry that permeates movement conservatism, so they call themselves something else -- this kind of behavior only matters when liberals do it.
Centrists have their own biases. Most of all, they like to adopt the fallacy of the middle whenever it becomes obvious that liberals have an important point to make, and wail and gnash that they're engaging in "extremism" -- a charge they never seem to make against conservatives. Funny how that works.
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My family is so sick to death of idiots shouting and fighting and getting nothing done but sewing seeds of hatred; that we moved 2500 miles away from our families and left no forwarding address or phone number.
We did it to GET RID OF FIGHTING LIKE THIS.
And you idiots think we want to BUY MORE OF IT ON TV?
Come on you morons! We haven't BOUGHT Cable TV since 1990.
It stinks. Because of shows like this one. Shout, scream, and watch the "pundits" which is a nice name for screaming as* holes.... go at it.
Just like Thanksgiving day at Grammas house!
Still have no Teevee in our house.
Aside from KO and Rachel and a couple others, Teeveeland is still chock full of
Rightwing corporatist ideologues and framing.
You know; the kind of place that we can "debate" whether America should torture
but no debates on single-payer healthcare.
Odin's Crows - I hate the frakkin' teevee.
I was hoping C&L would comment on this guy; Reliable Sources is one of the few media shows there is left (I don't count Faux's News Watch; they have purged any non-Fox supplicant) and it and "Howie" are destination viewing. But sheesh, this guy! All he wanted to do was bash MSNBC, without acknowledging that it's a counterpoint to Faux. He even bashed Rachel Maddow, the politest of the bunch. Plus, he seemed incensed that MSNBC broadcasts re-runs on the weekends, ignoring the fact that Fox broadcast an episode of "Lie to Me" instead of Obama's press conference. THIS GUY IS A HACK!!!
They REALLY hate Olbermann - because he does speak Truth to Power, and he doesn't let the BS stand without challenge.
Maddow is even better. Much as I like Keith, Maddow is awesome. And she scares the crap out of them: a smart, extremely well educated, powerful lesbian who doesn't trade on her sexuality, and who has a better grasp on the facts than 98% of the punditocracy! She absolutely scares the crap out of the Right - which is why they've started attacking her.
Last week Rush refered to her as a "little boy", (which probably reminded him of his Viagra infused Dominican vacations, but, I digress)....
But, and this really is important, this is not fascism. The Right has been trying to label the Left as fascists lately. They need a new scary name for us; the whole renaming the Dems thing failed laughably, nobody is buying calling us Commies anymore, they've lost their claim that they are the only ones who keep us safe, because overwhelming numbers of Americans feel safer with Obama in office now, so, they probaly had Frank Luntz test it and decided to try and hang "Fascists" on us.
And, as usual, nobody is pointing out the obvious: the definition of Fascism is the merger of Corporate and State Power combined with a belligerent and jingoistic nationalism.
In other words, the Bush Administration.
Can we please shut this one down before it makes more than two news cycles?
It was just harmless white powder,But it was a message because nothing ever came of it,no investigation,no foxnoise/cnn round the clock reporting on it.
I worry about Keith,He's one of the few real patriots that's still alive
If he actually went on Maddow's show she'd verbally kick his ass and he'd cry for days. He can dish it out, but he can't take it, which is why he doesn't let phone calls through that disagree with him.
What is the Fox counterpart (counterpoint) to Morning Joe? Or Meet the Press? Or Nora Odonnell? Or...?
I realize you were specifically speaking about Countdown, but the way its stated appears to imply every talking head on MSNBC is the left wing version of Fox News.
I left out Joe, "anyone know who killed Lori Klausutis?" Scarborough for a reason - cause he's every bit the hack that Gregory/Matthews/O'Donnell, et al, is.
And yes, he is a Right-wing blowhard. And a big, fat liar.
I think someone at MSNBC is so terrified of not appeasing the right that they keep him as a token. Along with his co-hostess, the morning Geisha, Mika, whose entire personality seems to be bowing and scraping and Ohh, you boys! in some wierd Republican imitation of a 50's housewife. Cannot stand to watch - it sets my teeth on edge.
The only time it's worth seeing Scarborough is if he has to share a screen with Maddow. I'm sure he can't stand a lesbian having a show on his channel, but, even more fun is to watch how she can imperviously bust his ass on the shit he spews with a few calmly stated facts. Joe doesn't do facts well. Then he gets all pissy and offended and starts huffing, and if Mika's there she tries to calm him down because that's what women do fer their menfolk.
It's fun! But, only then.
we need more centrists in this world neo-world divisive news commentators. Most centrists don't get up and make polarizing rants like that.
David Zurawik is screeching douche nozzle with a personality for newsprint. Whenever he opens his mouth on radio it is like listening to spaz 12 yr old who thinks the world revolves around himself.
He is lucky to have a job at Sun with all the layoffs it has had to its newsroom and editorial staff. He sees handwriting on wall and has been trying for years to break into blogs and radio, and now apparently TV. He probably sees the WAPO Kurtz as role model.
He is a agenda driven reporter, just look back on the hack job he did on Season 5 of the wire for 8 weeks as it shined a spotlight on his paper, the Baltimore Sun.
Right. The Sun has gone from a great newspaper to a thin pamplet. This Zurawick fool is not fit to kiss KO's ass.
Why can't cable companies offer stations ala carte? Or at least, why must EVERY bundle they offer include Fox News?
Can't they offer a "Fox-free bundle"? Sounds catchy, doesn't it?
I WANT A FOX-FREE BUNDLE!
to ask that TV's be turned to other channels, or turned off, anywhere public I go where there is a TV turned to Fox.
Doctor's waiting rooms, Firehouse Subs, I don't give a shit, if I go somewhere that is going to charge me for a service, I expect NOT to have to watch Fox while I'm there. So, I politely request it be changed.
Funny thing, I've never had anyone else who was waiting complain about turning Fox off; just one office manager who told me the boss insisted it always be on, (and I quit doing business with them), and one nurse in an ER, who really wanted to watch Fox while she was taking care of me. And I asked her repeatedly until she turned it off.
I have had people thank me.
where I'm drinking. Usually elicits shouts of "Democrat" or "leebrul" from the drunks that live at the watering hole, while their wives and kids suffer at without dad. Of course, drinking probably makes Klannity look thinner...
I've asked if I can have a basic cable bundle that doesn't include Fox. I was told by my cable company that it's easy to block the stations I don't want. That's not what I was asking for. How would the Christian Right react if they were told there is no premium cable bundle that doesn't include the Playboy Channel? And that, if they don't want it, they can block it, but it's still going to be included in the bundle they pay for? They'd shit!
I am a liberal. The Fox News channel routinely has shows where commentators mock and malign liberals and I find that as offensive as any Christian might find the Playboy Channel. Why must I pay for it in order to get a basic cable bundle?
I want a Fox-free bundle.
What do we want?
Fox-free!
When do we want it?
Now that is something I could definitely get behind. Why waste one channel on that bullshit?
It's doable. The cable companies can offer a bundle like that. I buy fat-free. Now, I want to buy Fox-free. Spread the idea around. Hey, let the market decide!
This guy says it would be the simplest thing in the world for cable providers to sell ala carte programming. I want it!
http://forum.boxee.tv/showthread.php?t=7475
But I only watch it to see what lies they are telling now or what news they are not reporting on.
I think it is a fauxnews channel here in Alabama that at 12 o'clock news time in the mid morning they have pat robertson 700 club spewing their propaganda.I watch that sometimes to see what lies and see how much money they are bringing in on their telethons or whatever then after that they heal people over the TV.I always wonder if you had to send them money to get the healing
Let’s give the moron what he wants.
“I mean, what we need as a democracy is reliable information.”
Where else to start but FAUX snooze.
.
Oh, I see...
It's not moving headlong into fascism when it's Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reiley, Bill Kristol, Karl Rove, Barbie Perino et.al doing it on FOXPRAVDA?
Need I ask of these people where that "smoking gun" just is?
Need I ask of these people where those ties to al-CIA-duh are?
Need I ask of these people where Tora Bora is?
"Swimmingly! Just swimmingly"...
... Says the CIA via el Rushbo!
.
I have no problem if a news/cable channels want to report the news. Nor do I have a problem with commentators from the left or right on one of these stations, as long as they are balanced from someone from the other side. Fox is not balanced at all and nor is MSNBC anymore.
I can't stand the compulsive balance thing that every fu-king show has.
No one has a chance to make a point.
Someone is there to shout them down.
Let Fox do its thing.
We just need some show to represent progressive voices. Unbalanced and progressive.
This is a staion that destroys manipulates twist and lies crops video and denies doing it even when caught.
Take out hunting licenses arm everyione in the area and bust a cap in their lieing asses. Its not like anyone importaant is catching it.
But then again the MORONS on the Right wpouldn't have any Talking Points and would not be able to talk. Brain dead Idiots.
Do you have a link to a lefist Nora ODonnell piece?
I agree with the post, but for accuracies sake, remember that the 3,000 victims on 9/11 came from 90 countries. They were not all Americans.
thanks, we needed that...
Once again the Ignorance on the RIGHT shows 3000+ people die because the bush cheney CRIME family FAILED todotheir job. These CRIMINALS IGNORED their oath and DUTY to PROTECT America. That Failure resulted in thousands od Innocent people dying, then the COWARDS slander manipulate and LIE fail to take Responsibility and use me and my fellow soldiers for their PHONY photo OPS.
3000+ Innocent people died because of the reprehensible COWARDLY action of the RIGHT WING.
I'm just pointing out an error, so hold your fire dude. All the victims should be mourned.
What Zurawik says about Olbermann is right.
Olbermann is doing a cartoon version of Edward R. Murrow.
And it stinks.
He's no Murrow.
lets see he produces FACTS, he calls a spade a spade, he shows accountability, yeah these are real hard things for COWARDS and Liars tocomprehend.
He has never said anything but the truth. You must be one of those delusional parallel universe clowns.
And if these morons actually knew what the word fascism means, these Orwellean dumbasses would know it does not, and cannot refer to socialism or liberalism. It is the exact opposite. Good god are these people fucking stupid!
Unlike others here, you provide no facts or insights, no new angles or thoughts. All you do is offer your "dittos" to a nasty right-wing wacko. You are just like every other Rushbot.
Go back to your beloved radio and leave us alone.
I thought newsrooms had reference books laying around. Any one of those reference books would have told the guy that fascism is one-party or dictatorial control of government and commerce. What that has to do with Keith and Rachel calling the former administration on its' lying and fearmongering, I just don't understand.I would think if anyone would want to use the word fascist to describe a certain government or administration,you wouldn't have to look too far.Maybe the Bush administation from 2000-2008??
My apologies for using laying instead of lying re: the reference books. The thought of a lying reference book make me cringe.
Boy, that whole "fascism" thing really musta stung the neocons, they're out in full fury projection mode trying to stick it on the Dems.
As for me, to paraphrase a fat Hermann Goering mis-attribution: whenever I hear the word fascism I reach for my revolver. Once again, the brain dead right has ruined a perfectly good word. Oh well, we still got saddlebacking and santorum.
Every Sunday, John King does his best Katie Couric imitation asking zero follow up questions when his guest spew lies. And Kurtz has never stopped sucking Republican dick even with the obvious progressive turn the Nation has made.
Avoid Sunday morning political shows, you'll be happy you did. Let them die a deserved slow painful death like the newspapers all over this Nation for all of the slanderous lies they've told us, especially this immoral, genocidal war.
Oh and BTW Neiwert, your latest book, "The Eliminationists" is a great, informative read. It's now in my reference section.
Boy these Clowns must think I am as STUPID as one of their quivering Spineless Right Wingers.
Who gave us Socialized Capitalism the RIGHT WING.
Who Is Trying to dismantle the Constitution and Civil Liberties (sounds like Fascism me) The RIGHT WING.
Who Protects Traitors, Liars and Manipulators ofCourse the (RNC) Racist Nazi Committee.
Who is the party of HATE of course the RIGHT WINGERS.
These Anti American pieces of Garbage want me tobelieve anything they say, what a bunch of IDIOTS.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. Who you gonna believe? The Orwellean corporate owned media, their employess at the republican party, Rush Limpballs and his ilk, or your own LYING eyes?
Left is right....
War is peace.....
Trickle down is utopia....
Corporate owned government is freedom....
Nice way for Zurawik to ignore completely accuracy and factual reporting. No wonder he gets along with Kurtz...
Howard Kuntz
and kurtz didnt call him on it
i hate this show
i hate most shows
i love rachel maddow and ko entertains me
and that is all i have to say about that
do not comprehend is that we spent eight sorry years being governed by crooks, thieves and gangsters. We have now a decent man trying to fix their mess, and they are at it again. And the MSM is totally disoriented and don't know what direction to go because they just can't find the sound. Fascist? We were close to it. It's gone. We are tired and catching and recovering our breath. This asshole doesn't really know what facism is all about. We are coming back from a long fucking dark journey and it's going to take a while to see the light. Americans are simpy slowly coming back.
When a person like this does not compare and contrast what he is talking about then he loses credibility. Especially when what he is saying is exactly what Fox News does on a daily basis. In fact MSNBC is a reaction to what Fox was doing for many years.
Don't kid yourself, the corporate owned media knows exactly what they are doing. They are schilling for their republican fascist masters, hoping the last two election cycles are just a blurp on the screen.
If their satanic worshippers in the U.S. Senate can hold off enough legislation to make Obama and the dems look like failures, they will be right there to pounce once again on the ignorant and weak minded. These arseholes are in it for the long haul, and they can just vacation for a few years - until the stench of their governing record wears off the short term memory of the American electorate.
When that happens, they know all of this fascist and socialism rhetoric will help to catapult them back into power. Given that 46% of the people in this country voted McSame last year, its a pretty good gamble on their part.
Here we go again with yet another repetition of the "Blame The Liberals" meme. Would someone please explain to me why it is that when a liberal figure in the media or the government criticizes someone, it's a demonstration of incipient fascism -- but when a neoconservative does it, hardly anyone turns a hair? It's unfair and hypocritical (not to mention a little too convenient) for Zurawik to single out Maddow and Olbermann when their comments are positively tame in comparison with the level of bile and vitriol which right-wing commentators such as Beck, Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh, Malkin, O'Reilly, and Savage typically utter.
When we see Keith Olbermann organizing or simply encouraging street thugs to go out and beat up Dick Cheney and his supporters, then he might have a legitimate concern about fascism.
Oh...you mean like that line from Ann Coulter in which she stated that the only way to talk to a liberal is to use a baseball bat?
I love Keith Olbermann and Countdown, but I thought the "Cheney kills Americans" remark was over the top and uncalled for when I saw it the other day.
But, Keith is right in one respect; Cheney didn't make us safer and started a war we had no right to start.
You say that cheney "started a war we had no right to start". Over 4000 Americans have been killed in that war. Yet you say that "cheney kills Americans" is over the top.
cheney was warned many, many times about al Qaeda and a potential attack yet he and The Puppet did nothing whatsoever about it. Nothing. 3000 Americans were killed in the subsequent attack. Yet you say that "cheney kills Americans" is over the top.
Sorry, that just doesn't make sense.
is what Zurawick is accomplishing by his decrying of alternative news and information. What they want, and need is complete control!
Yes, that's my fantasy, the day when across the nation people will throw their teevees out the window, out the door and smash them into the street in protest of the garbage that is spewed on it day and night.
And spewed at a charge no less. Endless obnoxious, sexist, racist advertising, sitcoms that are dominated by boring story lines, sexist themes, outdated social presumptions and horrible acting and topped with a heaping helping of corporate propaganda and misinformation.
In my entire life I think I've paid for cable television for about one or two years total. I've stolen it here and there but most of the time, if I've had to chose whether to pay for it or do without, I do without.
My children by the way, grew up without tv in the house and they don't care for it as adults and read and think. How about that?
I survived without teevee and you can too!
Matt Taibbi laid this out years ago. It's a cycle he calls 'Blame, Hate and Coalesce'. To Taibbi's credit he doesn't bother with the pretense that he's above the partisanship.
Hey it's entertainment, It's destructive perhaps but as Letterman said "it's the same reason we watch wrestling". Drama, conflict, alpha personalities, psychology.
http://punditfight.blogspot.com/2007/09/dont-...
For practice, The Lord created the idiot. Alas, unsatisfied of the results, he created the neocon.
Even He, was surprised by the perfection of His creation, for He wanted humans with common sense to work harder to earn Paradise. Alas, attendance to this wonderful place started to drop, for the work involved is at times, too much.
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