DADT Survey to Spouses? Really?
I really want to know who came up with this brilliant idea - asking the military spouses what they think about their husband/wife having to work with homosexual men and women.
Feedback from military spouses is an important aspect in the review, Ham said. The panel wants to know if spouses will be less likely to support their servicemember continuing his service if the law changes, [Gen. Carter] Ham said.
“We know for our married servicemembers, the most important influence on whether or not that servicemember decides to continue his service is his spouse,” he said. “So we need to know what the effects would be if the law was changed.”
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“We know that for our married servicemembers, their spouses’ views, the spouses’ satisfaction with the quality of service and the family readiness directly attributes to military readiness,” the general said. “Secretary Gates was focused at the very start to make sure that we understood what impact a possible repeal would mean to our family members.”
Can you believe this? "Excuse me, wife of SGT Smith. We'd really like to know if you feel that your marriage is threatened by the fact that your husband may or may not be working with Teh Gays." Her response: "Gee, maybe I'll get the chance to talk to him about it, you know, when he returns between his third and fourth deployment to the Middle East. Thanks for asking."
Fraking morons. Yes, the spouse has an influence on a military servicemember's opinion, but I don't think this is the primary disruption of their married life. Are they wasting time to push a decision after the mid-term elections, or are they just deliberately trying to tank the issue?
will be among the first to be told.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
when Blacks were integrated in the Army. He gave the command "Do it" and they said "yes sir". End of story.
Republicans are liars and simply cannot be trusted.
I'm getting really tired of this stupid bullshit. I'm getting ready to say, you don't want any gays or non Christians in the military? Fine. This is turning in to one stupid fucking country.
As I said on another thread, it's just a matter of time.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
While they're at it ass prvt Smith's wife what she thinks of Blackwater contractors drinking beer out of each other's asses and still getting new contracts after paying 40 million dollars in fines for various violations of conduct? I'm mean, they too are working along side of her husband!
that slip is kind of funny!
...the Moron church what they think?
painting gays and lesbians with a broad brush, should I never even speak to a soldier let alone date or marry one since they ALL suffer from PTSD and would some day shoot me as I lay beside them while I'm sleeping? Just checking!
They think teh ghey is contagious and will spread to straights.
It seems that a lot of the repressed leaders in the conservative/xtian movement are scared of teh ghey, and its appeal to the man/woman in the street/bars/bunkers.
I suppose if the choice is between christian rock or teh ghey, then theres no choice... ;)
get back these surveys and find that an over whelming majority support the repeal. I just want to hear the GOP and their teabaggers crying like the little pieces of shit that they are!
Harry commanded an artillery battery in combat in WWII. He knew that the President outranks all of the four star generals and was not shy about ordering them about. Too bad President Obama never commanded an artilley batter in combat.
Approach the problem from the opposite angle. For new recruits, ask them if they have a problem serving along side homosexuals, blacks, hispanics, or those of mixed race. If they say they do, politely show them the door. You can do the same with thier spouses.
I think three quarters of this country , military / government included , have lost their friggin minds . How I want out of this joint , if only I had the pesos !
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
If your husband came back to the states without any legs, would your response be
A: Horrified
B: Angry
C: As long as he hasn't turned gay, it's okay
THIS.IS.HORSESHIT!
Barack Obama can stop this crap in a heartbeat, but he won't. Instead, he allows this nauseating farce to continue, like the military gives two fucks about grunts feelings.
This is a Christiban based refusal to recognize gays' civil rights, given that the god-floggers have infiltrated the military.
oh for fucksakes!
this makes me want to smash something. but not surprising since it seems every single branch of the military is now being run by a bunch of fucking christian hypocrits.
assholes. a pox on the lot of them.
my brother in law has said... just do it. Repeal DADT and tell everybody to deal with it. and he's a colonel in the army.
They're only asking the heterosexuals.
supposed to be "straight."
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
... Gen. Ham had to resign because he was caught giving BJ's in the back of a gay bar.
so desperately to insert itself into two main bastions of capitalist patriarchy. Marriage and the military.
It's Not A Lifestyle. It's A Life.
me-oww!
I guess nothings sacred anymore.
but it's been their pushback at the rabid queer-hating right for at least a decade, who have tried to frame the argument that L, G, B, and T are somehow 'choices,' which they are not.
me-oww!
.. there is nothing more sacred than nothing!
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
The leadership in the military are hedging their bets. Those who are looking for major promotions over the next two to three years are rightfully concerned as to who their civilian bosses will be in 2012. If we had a President who had the guts to simply trash DADT and move on then the leadership would simply get on board. Harry Truman puts Obama to shame. Obama needs to grow a pair.
Where you go, go with all your heart-Confucius
what if Harry Truman let the white guys vote on desegregation? And their spouses of course.
This country is shamefully fucked up beyond repair. You have soldiers claiming to fight for our freedoms in countries most of the population here couldn't find on a well-labeled map, getting punished for not wanting to go to Christian Rock fest. WTF? Way to pump up morale, military.
It goes with pumping up much needed enrollment by banning queerness. Why gay people would want to join the military and fight for a country who doesn't recognise their right to enjoy the same rights as heteros is just as puzzling to me as blacks choosing the military before desegregation.
me-oww!
When GW & Cheney were ramping up to invade Iraq a poll came out showing 76% of the American population supported the invasion.
At the same time another poll emerged showing that only 24% of American high school graduates could FIND Iraq on a map.
Hmmm .. 76 + 24 = 100.
It figures.
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
"Why gay people would want to join the military and fight for a country who doesn't recognise their right to enjoy the same rights as heteros..."
not every gay person sees the world through the lens of gay.
some are very conservative.
some are low information and see the military as the way out of a bad situation, and haven't thought it through the way you have.
some would like that same chance at an education.
there are so many reasons, the same as for the straights - even the ones who don't actually gain anything by fighting for the empire, but do it anyway, which is the majority of the military at any time.
Oh that's right the mooslims are here!
The rot within?
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
.. is justice denied.
What a disgusting sellout of a campaign promise Mr. Obama.
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
Some people believe their imaginary slave-master(s) don't like it... don't-cha know
Study the symptoms not the virus...
"Are they wasting time to push a decision after the mid-term elections, or are they just deliberately trying to tank the issue?"
That's a rhetorical question, right?
I'm an atheist, but G*D help you...
gets to make an "informed" decision about my fitness to serve.
on a positive note....this C&L visual overhaul is super fancy. Iphone app please......
It must assume that gay military people are so attractive to straights that there is a great danger of marriage dissolutions should straights be exposed to gays.
The same argument is made by conservatives about the dangers of children being raised by gays -- they'll ALL become gay. Same thing when women were finally permitted to take non-traditional jobs for females -- as a feminist in my community, my phone used to ring off the hook with the wives of some volunteer firefighters who were terrified that if women firefighters joined the organization, they'd lose their husbands to the women. They envisioned the fire stations becoming dens of iniquity if men and women were allowed to work together, particularly at night.
I cannot imagine that there is any other reason for spouses to be surveyed about their opinions if gays serve openly in the military other than a fear that their spouses might be more attracted to gays than their spouses.
"It must assume that gay military people are so attractive to straights...." or vicey-versa....
But, yes, I'm sure the motivations were crazy. Presumably, some desperate last attempt to prove that integrating the armed forces would be "too painful on the spouses?"
imagine how far de-segregation would have gotten in 1948 if truman had polled....yeah, NOT very far.....does anyone think the israelis are wussies because the allow gays to serve openly in their military...how about the DOZENS of other countries world wide...why are we so "frightened" of gay people....sheesh....whatta bunch of marooms....and REAL sissies....
I think that the whole idea of letting a military review of the costs and benefits of ending DADT have any influence on whether DADT is ended, is faulty. I see this as a matter of every American's 2d Amendment and Equal Protection clause right to join the military, not as a question of efficiency, the ease or difficulty the military would have to adjusting to the change of letting gays and lesbains serve openly. Sure, that right to serve can't be granted to people who are physically or emotionally unfit for the condtions of service. Up to 30 years ago, that supposed unfitness of gays for combat would have been the excuse used, but even the mouthbreathers don't believe that nonsense anymore, so the bigots have to hide behind concerns for "efficiency". Progress, of a sort.
But within that faulty premise, a survey of spouses, if done fairly and honestly, is not at all an unreasonable feature of such a review of costs and benefits. What spouses think of the conditions of service is a powerful determinant of whether the service member is "allowed" to reenlist, and the military has a clear interest in retention rates.
The good news is that military spouses are probably more worried about the threat to their marriages posed during deployments by heterosexual soldiers of the opposite sex, or even closeted gay/lesbian soldiers, than by the prospect of whatever threat openly gay or lesbian soldiers present. The vast majority of military spouses are presumably pretty certain, rightly or wrongly, that their spouses are straight.
As long as the survey also asks about concerns over opposite sex soldiers, and opposite sex prostitutes, I would not say, within what I consider the faulty premise that concerns over retention should be allowed to ever trump individual rights, that this approach is unfair. It also won't prove detrimental to the cause. But we have to know exactly how the survey approached the topic, whether it assesses similar "threats" to military marriages, to say whether it was fair in this respect.
Well a happy wife makes a happy home. The military shouldn't worry what a spouse thinks on this issue. As a wife of a military retired husband, father and father-in-law they didn't carry if a person was gay as long as they did their job. As a wife in one way I would feel safe because if my husband is straight he wouldn't want to have gay sex. Am more nervious if my husband worked in a combat unit with women.
Southern Yankee
as a military spouse of an AF JAG i think that you are overreacting to this. spouses receive surveys from the dod several times a year on many different issues. the reason is just what gen. ham said: the number one reason that military members separate from the military is due to spousal unhappiness.
the military has included spouse's viewpoints, ostensibly, on many issues. this is just another survey most people will delete from their inbox. secretary gates has said he will conduct a thorough review on dadt and that is what he means.
for what it's worth, most of the spouses i talk to are all for repealing dadt and i wouldn't see this survey as something ominous. sec. gates has made it clear that he thinks dadt should be repealed as has admiral mullin. i will be VERY surprised if that is not what happens.
I greatly appreciate your serious point of view here. I agree with you, as a former military guy who thinks he understands his wife and her view on the military, this survey isn't going to be that significantly different than the service members. Having said that, I just feel that this subject in particular didn't need additional surveys (any surveys) for a rational and deliberative review of the topic. But again, your view is a good, sane and positive opinion on this topic.
you are welcome. glad to add to the debate. if you've been out of the military for more than 4-5 years you can't imagine how much the services are catering to the spouses. it was a real problem with retention for a while because of the numerous deployments and when it was discovered how large an influence spouses had on the mil mem they made a concerted effort to listen to us. now that the economy is in the tank and retention figures are back up, i don't think it will be too long before all the surverys stop. call me cynical......
What a bullshit stalling tactic by Christians.
Would you be inclined to let your hubby/wife reenlist if they will be gone 1 year out of every 3 and have a good chance of being maimed or killed in combat?
"Yes"
Would you be inclined to let your hubby/wife reenlist if they will have to serve with openly gay soldiers/airmen/sailors/marines?
"Fuck no!"
What a bunch of weenies. No wonder they can't be a low tech bunch of guys in dresses.
This is another waste of time and money as the military tries desperately to find an excuse for not allowing a targeted group that they don't like into the military.
Blacks no, women no, homosexuals no, exons yes, aliens yes, mercenaries yes with big juicy kisses.
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