Fear of a Gitmo Planet
It's hard to listen the GOP reaction to President Obama's decision to move the detainees to a nearly empty prison in Thomson, Illinois, without cringing at their statements. After the US government has tried and sentenced so many maniacs, hard-core criminals, and yes, other international terrorists, there is this feeling within the Republican party that this one prison - located on the Iowa-Illinois border, miles from civilization, with a local population who fervently welcomes the opportunity - is somehow the greatest threat to liberty today. Here's a memo the Repubs are circulating and its statements.
- Importing terrorists from Guantanamo into the United States likely gives them more legal protections than they have now.
- Voluntarily bringing Guantanamo terrorists into the United States increases the chances they will be ordered released into the country.
- Creating Guantanamo in Illinois will not appease the Democratic base.
- Creating Guantanamo in Illinois certainly will not appease al Qaeda.
- So who is coming to dinner? – Reviewing the Guantanamo population
- Hasn’t the Senate clearly opposed this move?
- At the end of the day, the President has not explained how this decision makes America safer.
It almost doesn't deserve a response, these statements are so ridiculous. But I can't help myself.
- They have to get more legal protections, since the Bush administration started them with zero. Even if we have military tribunals, it will mean that they finally have more legal rights than they have for the past six-seven years.
- How asinine is the statement that the US government will release detainees - which haven't been found guilty as terrorists - into the country? The really bad ones are probably not even getting the hearing. This line is really for the stupid and those fearing their own shadows.
- No, Gitmo in Illinois will not appease Dems, but those people who elected Obama will understand that he keeps his promises - to close Gitmo's prison system.
- No, Gitmo in Illinois will not appease al Qaeda, but it will ensure that they can't claim that the US government is running a gulag for Muslims.
- Who's coming to dinner? Is that a racist crack? Yeah, we don't need any more brown people here. Keep 'em out of the country. Very nice attitude, guys.
- The Senate is ruled by eunuchs who need to remember that they have a pair of balls. The original signers of the Declaration would be embarrassed to watch this spectacle.
- Obama has in fact explained that the United States endorses the principle of "rule of law," that to try all people under formal courts that will determine their guilt or innocence will in fact reduce the chance of more people joining terrorist groups.
Speaking of senators who lack their manhood, Sen. Lindsey "Brave Sir Robin" Graham is really standing out as a courageous example for us all. "Oh, no, Mr. President, please don't send those dangerous men to South Carolina! We just couldn't handle the stress..." What a coward.
for mandatory "Health Care for Profit protesters" isn't that probably the point they are most concerned about.
"Obama has in fact explained that the United States endorses the principle of "rule of law,..."
Except for those inconvenient 8 years of Bush when it was totally ignored. But we're not gonna do anything about that. As a matter of fact, we still support many of those illegal policies. So Obama's really saying, yes, we "endorse" the principle - we just don't live by it.
Nice.
... "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal" is no longer being understood.
Heaven forfend that they might not, as the result of being housed on American soil, be subject to torture, just like all American citizens (and all human beings, for that matter) are supposed not to be.
Rights are not granted by the Constitution, they are merely recognized, and they're not just for Americans, but are the birthright of all human beings.
Not that being housed at Guantanamo made any theoretical difference as to the rights of the "enemy combatants", but the move to native soil sure seems to have some people in a tizzy for reasons that are completely beyond me.
I'vee got the answer teacher! My hand is up first! Pick me! Pick me!
They are afraid that they might end up in the same prisons!
... to continue to imprison people without due process, but it's the statements from the GOP that are cringe worthy?
What planet is this?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Hello? It's like Obama stupids!
Maybe it's time we turn our attention away from the Rethugs and face contemporary reality?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4SJ0xR2_bQ
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Joe Lieberman said he would use is power as a lone senator to shut down health care debate so the senator from Minnesota uses his power as the lone presiding senator to shut down Joe Lieberman's lies! The man on the other side of the aisle Lieberman endorsed for president feigns outrage.
Go Al !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUEypqnjufw&fe...
time is valuable. That's why your colleague yesterday demanded the full reading if the Sander's amendment.
If only McCain was as outraged about the Bush regime lying America into war as he was about his bff not being able to spew his lies for another 2 minutes.
This line just cracks me up:
"...but those people who elected Obama will understand that he keeps his promises."
Now that is funny.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
You don't know if your going to be evicted today and tossed out in the cold, don't know where the next meal is going to come from, if your going to have a job another week, your barely getting by from paycheck to paycheck, your relying on public transportation to get to work, no health care . . really stressful.
It is almost like people have been hypnotized so they can't see the truth. As soon as he cut those back door deals with big Pharma and the drug companies I knew we were in big trouble. We have cut Obama a lot of slack because he inherited such a mess. I have been watching the department of justice and there have been some changes there. We still have all kinds of people in prison who should not be there, but they are starting to prosecute those who get caught beating inmates. Those who have no job, no home, and no food while we spend most of our money fighting in other countries probably can't remember what those promises were anymore.
It is almost like people have been hypnotized so they can't see the truth. As soon as he cut those back door deals with big Pharma and the drug companies I knew we were in big trouble. We have cut Obama a lot of slack because he inherited such a mess. I have been watching the department of justice and there have been some changes there. We still have all kinds of people in prison who should not be there, but they are starting to prosecute those who get caught beating inmates. Those who have no job, no home, and no food while we spend most of our money fighting in other countries probably can't remember what those promises were anymore.
I have had to correct both good friends and hated enemies. There are no TERRORISTS in Gitmo. There are no al Qaida operatives in Gitmo. There are no "enemy combatants" in Gitmo. THERE ARE ONLY TERRORIST SUSPECTS IN GITMO!!!
The fact that we haven't been able to convict these SUSPECTS after 8 years shows how unlikely it is that they are high-level operatives.
We have to quit believing they hype! Just because the CHENEY ADMINISTRATION (and its sock-puppet George W. Bush) SAYS they are terrorists, doesn't mean they ARE terrorists.
Peabody!
These prisoners can not be released on US soil. They aren't citizens. They'll be deported, if anything.
..
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
All you really need to shut up the fear baiters when they won't listen to fact:
Real Americans aren't cowards.
The republican party has proven themselves to be the biggest threat against liberty.
I guess this is just another example of their projection.
Tears for fears
Farts for Parts.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Poots for Boots.
Puds for Buds...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
And, since when did we expect anything else from that bunch of WATB?!?
I can definitely appreciate the last line. But, for the rest, I'm having trouble putting aside all those silly due process concerns that make it so difficult to identify "[t]he really bad ones" without any type of trial or hearing.
But I'm sure it's just a passing phase.... I mean, who really cares about habeas corpus, speedy trial rights, innocence until proved guilt, or any such nonsense when a soundly defeated irrelevant minority wingnut bogeyman has said something we can make look foolish.
Look! Over there! Shiny, but dangerous. I'm so glad the President protects us from them. Otherwise everything would be so much worse.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
kind of bothered me too. Funny idea of rule of law this Mr Sigger has isn't it?
In the past (not at this site) I've argued about the need for habeas corpus and I am bothered by the lack of due process. And I think Obama will get there - in time. He's got this infuriating habit of taking half steps to get to where he wants to go, slowly, so that the other side can't object too much and he actually makes progress.
Do I like it? No. But I can't argue with its effectiveness. At least he's moving forward, closing down Gitmo, moving the trials along. That's far more than Bush evr did in eight years. Obama should do more, especially stopping the military commissioned trials, but I'm willing to let him have a little more time.
Hey, they call themselves the republican taliban(just like the terrorists)! These scardy cat republicans want America to fail(just like terrorists). They're afraid they're gonna be part of the FEMA Control groups (just like the terrorists). Perfect timing. Get 'em all out of the American quest for success(just like the terrorists).
obama isn't closing gitmo, he is only trying to move it to illinois.
jason sigger writes: "Obama has in fact explained that the United States endorses the principle of "rule of law"
really? do you actually believe that claptrap? i wonder how obama's defense of indefinite detention, denial of habeas corpus, and military tribunals factors into the rule of law.
obama had a chance to endorse the rule of law, but he chose, instead, to continue bush detention policies, and extralegal executive abuses.
bush, cheney, rumsfeld, feith, gonzales, yoo and many many others would be filling that prison already.
the notion put fwd that this will create upwards of 3000 for the town's residents is another fallacy about Gitmo North
...if the town actually gets the jobs.
Look, it's a half-step. We need somewhere to put 100+ people on hold while they get processed and go to trial or go back to their countries. At least this gets them out of a military-run prison - we don't need the military acting as jailers. Not their job, and they have other things to do. At least this gets the detainees into the legitimate due process of civilian courts.
it will:
-be a domestic location to hold uncharged prisoners indefinitely
-create a lot fewer local jobs, that are low paying, than advertised by those that argue for it
-have the military still acting as jailers (more accurately a joint op btwn DoD and BoP), just in illinois instead of cuba
According to an analysis of the Thomson project by the President's Council of Economic Advisers, once the prison has been fully renovated and upgraded (to what has been described as a "beyond supermax" facility), "in essence, DoD (Department of Defense) and BoP (Bureau of Prisons) will operate two entirely separate facilities side by side." One facility will be run by the Pentagon and will hold an untold number of former Guantánamo prisoners. The other will be run by the Federal Bureau of Prisons and will hold 1,500 to 1,600 federal prisoners, to be transferred from overcrowded prisons elsewhere.
On the Pentagon side, the Department of Defense estimates that it will need "between 1,000 and 1,500 employees" to staff its wing of the prison. "One-third of these employees will be government civilian employees or private contractors with annual salaries between $80,000 and $90,000. The other two-thirds of the employees will be military personnel, with salaries of $65,000, which includes a housing allowance."
Not surprisingly, the analysis states: "DoD expects few of its direct hires to come from the local communities."
So what's left for the locals? Lower salaries, for one (with the exception of some prison guard jobs). And once the construction jobs are done, not much; while the economic analysis reports that "local residents will be excellent candidates for 1,240 to 1,410" of the jobs relating to "the modification, opening, and running of the facility," it also states that "in total, BoP expects to hire 448 workers locally." That's a far cry from the 3,000-job figure being thrown around. Although much stock is being placed in "indirect jobs due to increased spending and economic activity," as well as potential teaching jobs for theoretical schools that will accommodate military families who move to the region, these estimates are hardly definite.
http://www.alternet.org/rights/144619/politic...
into the land of the weak and the home of the fearful. That's why they are despised throughout America.
I don't believe, for one second, there's an OUNCE of FEAR on either side about holding these "accused" Gitmo detainees on "American Soil".
I firmly believe the FEAR is of having to face the TRUTH, publicized world wide of the FULL EXTENT of criminal activity of THEIR President, THEIR VICE president, THEIR PARTY and their own complicity IN THAT CRIMINAL ACTIVITY because, not ONLY have they ignored the Constitution by breaking treaties, invading other countries to gain control of their natural resources, OIL, etc., SPIED on ALL Americans, HERE and abroad, SPIED on our ALLIES, kidnapped people around the WORLD, beat them, tortured them, MURDERED SOME OF THEM, held them with NO CHARGES, and more, based on thousands of LIES which their VICE president BRAGS about on television, they are afraid charges will be brought against THEM.
The American People who still believe in right and wrong not being subject to a PRICE TAG, may not be able to get our "officials" to uphold the law, but international courts with whom WE have signed TREATIES still have the POWER to prosecute them whether they like it or NOT.
Once Blair and Cheney finish spilling their guts, the WORLD will have all the evidence it needs to start prosecuting. Obviously our "government" will not honor our commitment to EXTRADITE THE CRIMINALS FOR PROSECUTION, but, at the very least, we will know that when complacency steps in and one of them thinks they are as safe to travel abroad as they are here to travel between states, they WILL BE locked up. At that point, our "vaulted" leaders won't be able to do a thing to stop it, having already broken treaties, they will never have any credibility left to stop it.
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