It's Not Just About the Numbers
I wanted to echo Brother Matt's point at Foreign Policy Watch that this AP article at the Huffington Post, "Troops In Afghanistan Outnumber Taliban 12-1" written by Slobodan Lekic, does completely miss the point. We don't expect journalists to understand military theory before they write about military issues, so this doesn't surprise us. But it does bear correcting the observations within the article.
There are already more than 100,000 international troops in Afghanistan working with 200,000 Afghan security forces and police. It adds up to a 12-1 numerical advantage over Taliban rebels, but it hasn't led to anything close to victory.
Now, the top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan is asking for tens of thousands more troops to stem the escalating insurgency, raising the question of how many more troops it would take to succeed.
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The 12-1 ratio may be misleading because two-thirds of the Allied force is made up of Afghans, who lack the training and experience. The Taliban usually fight in small, cohesive units made up of friends and fellow clansmen. A more meaningful ratio, then, might be 4-1 or 5-1.Historically in guerrilla wars, security forces have usually had at least a 3-1 advantage.
Now, any strategist worth his/her salt will tell you that numerical supremacy within a theater of operations doesn't count for squat. It doesn't matter whether the US coalition outnumbers the Taliban by a ratio of 12-1, 5-1, or 3-1. What matters is what the ratio is when US forces are engaging the Taliban in tactical battles, such as those in Nuristan provinces. If the side with superior forces is spread out and trying to cover everything, then the side with fewer numbers and more agility has the combat advantage. This has happened time and time again through history.
These numbers and rations ought not to be considered in McChrystal's request for 40,000 more troops. What matters is what strategy is pursued - country-wide COIN operations, conducting combat operations, protecting "ink spots" and vital regions, or just training Afghan security forces and protecting the government. McChrystal didn't ask for enough to do a country-wide option, so I'm guessing that he's going for "ink spots" plus combat operations. President Obama seems to be leaning toward just doing the "ink spot" strategy, which might not require additional troops.
So ignore the talk about force ratios and troop increases - it's not relevant until a sustainable long-term regional strategy is developed and implemented. The real unanswered question remains, "How does this all end?"
"How does this all end?"
Complete destruction isn't it obvious?
will end as they all do: Coffins, devastated families, drained treasuries, etc. "Man's inhumanity to man" continues on unabated...
Exactly. But whose destruction - Afghanistan or USA?
All I have learned about fighting I learned from one of my jr. high teachers. He said it is never wise to fight a man on his own territory or in his own country. He knows the terrain. He knows the people and he knows where he is at all times.
I don't know if that still works today, but it seems the wars during my lifetime have proven it to be true.
Now that I have shared that little bit of memory, I'll sit back and read and learn from this post and the following comments.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
................would know that since forever Afganistan is unconquerable and after the USSR
went bankrupt after their Afganistan mis-adventure, a smart country would have left it alone, but NO, NO, NO, NO...............the MILIRARY/INDUSTRIAL/PETROLEUM mafia had, just had, to have that HELLPIPELINE so stupid USofBLOODYISRAEL had, just had to fight another war for BLOODYISRAEL.
STFU already with your "USofBloodyIsrael" bullshit.
The real unanswered question remains,
"How does this all end?""What role, if any, does the military play in a solution?"When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
We're going kill and destroy you until you submit so our country can be the big swinging dick on the planet.
That's what all war basically comes down to.
we'll continue to exploit our own people once your contained.
Mine doesn't swing when turgid.
I guess I need deturgid.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
and glorious the Killing Machine attempts to paint itself for public consumption the bottom line is it's still the lowest level of animal instinct survival in the known universe.
No advanced civilizations people would look each other in the eye and think . . I'm going to kill you, your my enemy because you get in the way of what I want, my desires, my ego . .
"No advanced civilizations people would look each other in the eye and think . . I'm going to kill you, your my enemy because you get in the way of what I want, my desires, my ego . ."
Well said, indeed.
Watch Hannity flat out lie about a supposed poll that shows a majority of Americans supporting a troop increase in Afghanistan.
http://progressnotcongress.org/?p=3308
Just trying to be unfair & unbalanced...
"Troops In Afghanistan Outnumber Taliban 12-1"
And troops outnumber Al Qaeda many thousands to one. There are only about 100 Al Qaeda in Afghanistan (per our own CIA est)
WTF are we doing there - supporting the opium drug lords?
AAARRRGGGHHH!
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
I am hoping that Obama is waiting for health care insurance reform before he starts pulling out of Afghanistan.
Whatever he does there is the fact that invaders seem to not be able to hold a country if the population does not agree. I suppose we don't really know if the population agrees with the U.S. being there. Either way we should get out because we have already accomplished our mission.
Rightcorrect?If the issue is being drug out until after the 2010 mids.
Political calculations being the amoral crass math that it is
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
if they want us there. I guess you haven't been listening. Countless and consistent reports for at least 4 or 5 years have been saying that the US presence is the problem. That is where the US goes, trouble follows. It's like people are trotting out the tired canards that we should rebuild Afghanistan. They tried before and failed. What makes them thinks this time it's going to be different. The so-called leaders of Afghanistan all have their hand stuck in the cookie jar and want ever more pie. They are all criminal and corrupt human beings. The best thing is to leave. If we really wanted to go after the problem, the source has always lied in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Well, actually, the source lies in the US pentagon, but no one is allowed to say that. No one is allowed to say that these phony, illegal wars are being fought for oil, pipelines, natural resources, commerce and slave labor. And, to boot, to keep the Russians, Chinese, Iranians and every other freakin' nation out of the US playground.
End the wars, dismantle the Corporate Perpetual War Machine, dismantle the CIA, cut the War budget by 90% to put it in line with what the rest of the world spends.
The National Security Act of 1947 was a phony jobs program to enrich the war mongering Robber Barons.
Replace it with the WPA version 2.0.
Stop the war mongering.
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
I've never seen a comprehensive study but all indications are that if the US were to radically trim back its military spending, curtail its system of overseas bases, and end the succession of small to medium sized wars - the US economy would collapse.
Which could be a good thing, depending on your perspective.
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
Well, except for a few fat cats on Wall Street>
What about the EXIT One.
Seems that they want to sell us the "Good War" Theory even at C&L.
The TALIBAN never attacked us.They offered to give us Bin Laden if we could proof he did.
The afghan war was signed defore 9-11 when the TALIBAN refused the UNOCAL pipeline.
We - Arundhati Roy - The Unocal pipeline
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUbvCkhkEFs
The 'war' in Afghanistan was purposely mismanaged in order to increase fees for war contractors and shine the public on while Big Dick Cheney could shove his cock up Saddam's mouth.
...........this hell pipleine is exactly the mechanism meant to provide an Empire for BLOODYISRAEL, and because it is meant to do that, all the nations thru which it would flow said empathically NO!!!! So, the combined mafia of MILITARY/INDUSTRIAL/MEDIA had to teach them a lesson in international relations. NO wonder most of the world hates USofBLOODYISRAEL.
These bastards apparently still think they are going to pacify Afganistan to the point they can run a pipeline from central Asia to a seaport.
A look at a map tells the tale.
The Russians basically control the tap on the only source of supply to Europe. (It runs through Georgia, remember that kefluffle?)
Karzai was an Unocal exec before he was the corrupt monster we no know.
Central Command (Petraeous) was specifically set up by Jimmy Carter to defend access to oil.
We aren't leaving anytime soon.
Think of it this way / a little personal accountability moment: Everytime you fill up the tank on your vehicle, you've helped kill another American.
The amount of oil our military uses is about the same as the amount the military is defending - so the math seems too easy to me.
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
Thanks Handypants.
It's about the pipeline for natural gas to bring Central Asian natural gas to the sea.
And that's why implanting a compliant "national government" in Afghanistan is so important.
President Karzai is the oil and gas man - that's why he was installed. Remember the first Loya Jirga, where the Council of Elders elected someone else? And the US (GW & Cheney) told them that choice was unacceptable and try again? The second time they got it right!
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
1) The CIA cannot be using aerial drones on the Pushtuns on the Pakistani side of the border (terrifying the population as well as killing them) at the same time the US Military and "rebuilding efforts" are trying to "win the hearts and minds" of the Pushtuns on the Afghani side of the border.
2) Some of the Pushtuns the US wants to eliminate are actually allies of the Pakistanis in their ongoing conflicts with India.
3) The US long term strategy is clearly implanting a compliant national government in Afghanistan that will approve and implement a gas pipeline from Central Asia to the sea, to benefit India, among otheres. In the first place, Afghanistan has never had in its entire history a national government that lasted more than a few years. Nor are the regional warlords inclined to let one happen. And worse yet, the goal of creating a pipeline that will benefit India is anathema to Pakistan.
Military solution?
No way.
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
If a military solution was possible it would have already been done.
No amount of troops or weapons or drones or tanks will fix the mess.
At this point in time it really doesn't matter how or why we got there - it is time to leave.
IMO
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
I would think U.S. military leaders would know that it doesn't matter how many troops you fill a country like Afghanistan with unless the enemy is willing to face you in a stand-up fight.
We could have 1 million troops in Afghanistan and we still wouldn't be able to pacify the country. I thought the American Revolution, the War of 1812, and Vietnam would have taught us that it's nearly impossible to defeat an enemy on his own turf.
when the people stand up to all the profit for war corporations and say STOP! Look at the war corporations here in the US. GE and others Want WAR. It makes them MONEY. This will go on and on. I think there are more than half of the people in the US who want the wars to stop. No more People want to aee there loved ones come in a BOX so some assholes can make money from Death. I will take people to stand up. The corporate controled TV will not put the marches on TV. They do not want the people in America to see that there are people out there marching to stop war. Look at who owns the TV. Hell, they have money in these wars to keep going, forever. What we need to stop war, Bring back the DRAFT. Ever one goes in for 2 years. EveryOne. The people in washingtion, ALL there KIDS go in. No get out free cards. When these assholes see there kids go to war, come home in a Box, just how long will the war last then. We would be out in a Week.
...that he would bleed us dry? In all the years this 'war on terrorism' has been fought, that is the only promise that has been effectively kept. I can not find the exact quote, but Bin Laden in effect said all he had to do was attack here, attack there along with a few well placed bombs, and I can bleed the United States dry, he said he had enough money to do this indefinitely. In essence, a trap that keeps on trapping. Dick Cheney and George Bush were more than happy to walk into it to get that big shining prize...oil. I want President Obama to grow the balls to walk out of it.
I would rather see drilling platforms dotting, the west coast, east coast, ANWR and the Bakken Formation in the middle before allowing these terrorists to bleed our country dry. Damage to the climate and the environment would be an acceptable risk.
Government + the Federal Reserve = organized crime
Do You have that Bin Laden Did it when NOT EVEN THE FBI believes so?
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinla...
"CAUTION
Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world."
It would be useful to have one news source that used the terms 'occupation and resistance' instead of 'security forces and Taliban fighters'. At this point everyone knows the so-called 'government' of Afghanistan is an illegitimate entity installed by an army of occupation, and the forces resisting are made up of many local groups of resistance fighters.
It's strikingly odd to me that Obama is so craven that he will show signs of being the progressive president we elected, like lifting a travel ban on persons with HIV/AIDs on the same day he perpetuated the dubiously criminal enterprises of the US military in Colombia. I ask without answer: why is Obama so imbued with the military and the criminally phony wars in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq. Why is he in bed with the imperialists.
If one asked me I would say his feud with Faux Noise was simply feeding us red meat and then hoodwinking us on anything that matters. Think Clinton's Sister Souljah moment. I think it's the same thing with the Nobel Prize. It was meant to give him cover to advance the wars and enrich the industrialists. As I predicted, Obama silently has approved, or will approve, massive troop increases to Afghanistan. It's like your website says today. We already have hundreds of thousands of troops there, the idea that even 40,000 will do anything to improve the situation, let alone win, sounds a bit naive. The same thing is going on with health care: both the House and Senate bills are cashcows for the insurance industry. They will do nothing for costs or the insurer's predatory practices. Thankfully, the bills are totally unconstitutional: the idea that Congress has power to require people to purchase private insurance is contemptuous of the document. If it does pass, it will end up like the student loan programs for higher education: the universities simply used the guaranteed loan amounts as a base from which to raise tuition costs. These bills are repugnant, literally.
The military need to tell us what there definition of winning is and how the troop increase will help them.
We already did this once and we know how it ends.
If we want to stay in control of Afganistan all we need is a small air base near Kabul. Mine the outskirt. And wait for them to come to us. Use drones or missiles to hit them whenever they mass. Harass them the way they harass us. For them to take control they will have to expose themself.
It will be the longest war in History!
"If we want to stay in control of Afganistan"
What about letting the Afghan People to control themselves wether or not we like their form of Goverment?
I guess war isn't gang rape.
with any sense claim we will achieve any kind of victory in that shithole country? We've been coddling their corrupt leader for years and their election process is worse than authoritarian rule. After all they can lie about election results and claim it was from the people.
No. We should have never invaded Afghanistan. We needed a real leader at the helm after 9/11 not the bloodthirsty retarded puppet we were forced to accept from the supreme court.
Also, that 40,000 troop number is a lie just like every other number they feed us. How many overpaid mercenaries will we send there too?
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