Republican Flip Flops Abound
By Jason Sigger Wednesday Nov 18, 2009 1:00pmThere literally is no end to the extent by which Republican politicians will lie, distort, and manufacture statements in their efforts to disrupt, deny, and destroy the Obama administration's attempts to govern. At today's Senate Judiciary Committee hearings on 9/11 trial, the Fort Hood shooter, and terrorism, Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) decided to flip-flop on the designation of the Gitmo detainees. Are they "unlawful enemy combatants" or are they "prisoners of war"?
SESSIONS: The enemy, who could of been obliterated on the battlefield on one day, but was captured instead does not then become a common American criminal. They are first a prisoner of war, once they're captured. The laws of war say, as did Lincoln and Grant, that the prisoners will not be released when the war - until the war ends. How absurb is it to say that we will release people who plan to attack us again?
Sessions seems to be saying that because these detainees were captured by the military, they have become prisoners of war and should not be released - even if found not guilty or after serving a prison term (assuming less than a life sentence) - until the "war on terror" is over (which, under a Republican point of view, will never be over). But on the other hand, SecDef Don Rumsfeld and the other fun-loving bunch of Bushites were very firm about NOT calling them "prisoners of war" because they were not supposed to get rights under the Geneva Convention (or any other form of legal writs - see waterboarding, justification of).
In fact, as one of the commenters at the TPM post notes, there was public law developed to explicitly designate any non-US citizen who was accused of supporting terrorism or acting against the United States as a terrorist as being eligible for military commissions.
I thought like you until I read this, from the Military Commissions Act: "‘(e) Geneva Conventions Not Establishing Private Right of Action- No alien unprivileged enemy belligerent subject to trial by military commission under this chapter may invoke the Geneva Conventions as a basis for a private right of action."
See: here.
This discussion becomes quickly complex with legal passages as a debate over whether the military tribunals should take KSM or if the federal court system has adequate jurisdiction. But it's just so interesting how Republican politicians adroitly jump back and forth as to the question of the detainees' status to how it best fits their argument of the day - are we talking about Geneva convention rights, or are we talking about the process of legal courts?
And because I want to give credit to the interesting comments over at TPM, I will close with the following observations by the commenters:
"I guess when the Right/GOP can say, print (Palin's myth filled book), promote anything without any accountability by the Beltway Press, the GOP has no need for intellectually honest consistency in their claims."
"When did Sessions stop playing the banjo?"
UPDATE: Clarified the guilt point.
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LOLOL. "Prisoners of War". Yeah...John Yoo, Dick Cheney et all must really be salivating over the possibilities opened up by THAT designaiton.
I agree with Mr. Sessions. Let's change the designation of these prisoners, so we can move on to some judicial discussions surrounding the Geneva Conventions and torture.
Bring it on!!
Sessions wants the POW label so that he can justify the use of military tribunals, which have had a lot of trouble getting up and running. Then when they are in the military tribunal, the designation will switch back to "enemy combatants" so that they don't get Geneva Convention coverage.
It's the Republican version of "three-card Monty."
Ok...but that OPENS the door to evidence of TORTURE which is flatly forbidden by the Geneva Conventions and our own law.
Does this asshat REALLY understand what he's saying?
Of course not.
The sheer ignorance and intellectual laziness of George W Bush combined with the sheer evil of Dick Cheney have left this country with a legacy that may never be repaired.
These cocksuckers rail about the stain on a blue dress, while their pathetic boy President left a stain on the whole country.
And mindless simpletons like Jeff Sessions should simply keep their mouths shut.
And I'm sorry...but the reputation of MY country and my belief in the values espoused by the Constitution are very important to me.
When pissants like Jeff Sessions play politics with very serious issues like this, they really do DESERVE a severe beatdown.
..charging w and his crime family, we may be able to repair some of our legacy.
To all the people who thinks the President is above the law, no one is above the law. And we are obligated to investigate all the torture business and if its not Obama, it will have to be the next President who will have to include investigating Obama if Obama does not investigate w. I've been told that there can't be investigations or trials because every Politician would have to look over their shoulder during their election for previous crimes. A lawyer told me that. Umm, I told him if a Politician commits a crime, I want to know about it before I choose to vote or not vote for him. He didn't understand and maybe that's the problem. sorry if a little o/t.
..and the Red Cross has called the USA on it. Nuff said.
The Red Cross is the only agency that can determine what is and what isn't torture.
(R - Rapists)
Congress never declared war on Iraq or Afghanistan. We haven't declared war since World War II.
then it's definitely life in prison for Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and ALL who were involved in torture of these individuals. And the death penalty for ALL those who were involved in torture that resulted in death. The LAW is VERY explicate on that.
Exactly.
Sessions gets away with this bullshit because people are IGNORANT...and the media is too big a bunch of pussies to call him on it.
And let's ask Mr. Sessions some other questions.
1) What countries' armies were these POWs fighting for?
2) Does Mr. Sessions think we should declare war on Saudi Arabia? Kuwait? Syria? Jordan? THE EMIRATES?!?!
Mr. Sessions should focus on what he does best.
Sucking the dicks of the oil and gas industries.
Sessions speaks and is a racist pig who loves the KKK.
every issue according to the (extreme) right seems to be Obama's "waterloo". personally, i've been somewhat confused about the crime vs. act of terrorism vs. act of war deal. even during/after these trials i'm not convinced i'll ever learn the truth about 9-11.
This is what I have questioned here in the comments a couple of times the past two days or so. They can't have it both ways. Either they are un-uniformed soldiers and not entitled to the Geneva Conventions laws or they are POWs and entitled to the Geneva Conventions laws. Jerks like Sessions can't change the rules in the middle of the game.
Ah but the Republicans can have it both ways , it's their MO isn't it ? They are the real terrorists and the ones the people in this country should fear , more so than Bin Laden and the " terrorists " , it won't be foreign terrorists that will destroy this country but the Republicans and the right wing nuts , they've already done a pretty good job of it and they are not done trying . They are treasonous saboteurs , no question about it .The biggest shock to me over the last eight and a half years was realizing just how absolutely stupid and ignorant one third ( or more )of our population is , gross stupidity and ignorance in this country is the real problem , without the American moron the Repugs and the Right would be SOL . Those with functioning brain and the ability to use logic and reason can only keep defending the country and save the stupid from themselves .
Three cheers for Kreskin. Damn right pal!
"Since the 1942 Quirin case, the US signed and ratified the 1949 Geneva Conventions, which are, therefore, considered to be a part of US municipal law, in accordance with the Supremacy Clause in the Constitution of the United States.[31] In addition the US Supreme Court invalidated this premise, in Hamdan v. Rumsfeld, by ruling that Common Article Three of the Geneva Conventions applies to detainees in the War on Terror, and that the Military Tribunals used to try these suspects were in violation of US and international law.[32]
Congress addressed these issues in the Military Commissions Act of 2006, so that enemy combatants and unlawful enemy combatants might be tried under military commissions, however on 12 June 2008, the Supreme Court ruled, in Boumediene v. Bush, that Guantanamo Bay captives were entitled to access the US justice system, and that the military commissions as constituted under the Military Commissions Act of 2006 fell short of what was required of a court under the United States constitution"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_combatant
caught these guys and said that, well their mamas loved them. Barrack inherited the prisoners from W, who thought Cuba is the same as France or Lebanon or the Medium Lobster's navel. For God's sake, they are just criminals. owed a fair trial and due a fair punishment if convicted. Given the circumstances and guilty pleas conviction is likely, but the gummint needs to do a proper job to prove its case. This is our way of doing justice, and we owe it to the Constitution.
Sessions' needs to go back to playing the banjo on his front porch. He was awesome in Deliverance.
However, I could definitely have done without the scene where Larry Craig tells Rush Limbaugh to "squeal like a pig!"
The GOP is crawling with stuipd saltines! This Artie Johnson lookalike should have stayed in Dixie!
i love it when the rightwing paints itself into a corner...
civilians: they get trials
POW: bush/cheney/rummy/etc guilty of war crimes*
[*of course they are guilty of war crimes for many other things]
You wrote:
I think you mean "even if found not guilty. Otherwise, why would they be released if they were found guilty.
Sessions operates under the standard Right Wing "Guilty of Suspicion Doctrine," which stipulates that one is guilty if anyone suspects them of anything. Needless to say, everyone in Iraq and Afghanistan (or any Arab or Muslim country) is guilty by this reasoning. Eventually, the US will find it necessary to incarcerate and support hundreds of millions if not billions of people and entire countries will have to become US run Gitmos. Needless to say, Sessions would be the ideal warden for such a system.
Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III was born in Selma, Alabama
You gotta forgive Sessions and all his Suth'rin ilk for they are misconfused!
Yes! Misconfused!
Imagine being a Southern Dem, still crusading against the Republicans for the atrocities visited upon The South, and then along comes Reagan and **SHAZAMM** you ARE a Republican ..
Misconfabulated for sure!
Now their brains, which were first twisted by hate and vengefulness against the Republicans, must twist again and redirect that animosity and mindless hatred against the Democrats ..
Imagine the confusion!
William Kingdon Clifford (1845-1879), pioneering English mathematician and philosopher. Proposed a geometric, "curved space" theory of gravitation decades before Einstein. Argued that mind is the ultimate reality; an atom of matter is ultimately an atom of the same "mind-stuff" that thought and feeling are made of. Regarded by the clergy as a dangerous champion of antispiritual scientific tendencies.
"If a man, holding a belief which he was taught in childhood or persuaded of afterwards, keeps down and pushes away any doubts which arise about it in his mind, purposely avoids the reading of books and the company of men that call in question or discuss it ... the life of that man is one long sin against mankind."--William Kingdon Clifford
He sounds like an interesting person, TC -- thanks for the link! I want to learn more about him.
Sessions should pull out the beads and rattles and do a little dance on the table
Talking just doesn't help his case
"There literally is no end to the extent by which Republican politicians will lie, distort, and manufacture statements in their efforts to disrupt, deny, and destroy the Obama administration's attempts to govern."
george:
I guess Obama will have to double down on his efforts to create the spirit of bipartisanship in Washington.
A few suggestions:
* Stop being a DINO and actually join the Republican Party
* Name Rush Limbaugh to replace Eric Holder
* Give Fox News an office in the White House
* Invade Iran, North Korea and Venezuela
* Start bleaching his skin
* Invite Sarah Palin to spend the night in the Lincoln Bedroom
* Transport the Oval Office to the floor of the New York Stock Exchange
And even that wouldn't be enough without Dick Cheney's approval.
Let's not forget that Sen. Sessions is the same simpleton who was appointed to a federal judgeship by St. Ronnie Raygun. He is demonstrating the level of jurisprudence acuity expected from Republicans, in the great tradition of Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, and Harriet Myers. Their "logic" is completely nonsensical and has nothing to do with a guiding legal principle. It is only guided by their preferred outcome.
We've gone over this a hundred times. The "detainees" are either prisoners of war or suspected criminals. Our legal system has prescribed protocols for either case.
Sessions is such a moron that the fronts of his sentences don't know what the back ends are saying. A prisoner of war can not be tried in a tribunal under the Geneva Conventions. And no one is talking about releasing these people. We are talking about trying and convicting them.
Now, the next time I hear some yokel wearing the stars and bars yell "The South shall rise ag'in!" I know I can count on you to call for his being delivered to the Union Army for proper processing as a Confederate combatant who has yet to lay down arms.
In the Civil War, until 1863, both sides arranged for formal exchanges of prisoners. So, there, Sen. Sessions, both conferedate and Union POWs lived to fight another day.
What happened in 1863, you ask? The Confederates refused to treat captured black soldiers as men, and enslaved them instead.
I'm sure Sessions knows this.
...but not the part shown in the video here. Throughout, Sen. Leahy was entering various documents into the record.
Instead of being judicious and mature, as he was in real life, I kinda wish he'd said, "And I enter into the record the fact that the North won the War Between the States."
When dealing with one such as sessions one must remember that READING is a requirement of the job, by his own admission he has not read the Geneva Convention Treaty (why it can be brought up for research and fast read on the Internet, oh oh read, sorry).
The Flip Flopping of this individual and his Ignorance in matters of State are a insult to the People he represents. I was under the impression that the best and the Brightest rose to do the service of their constituent, he sure as hell isn't saying a lot for his State. Maybe he was told all he needed was sound bytes and photo ops with a American Flag lapel pin?
Thanks for using my post at TPM:
"I guess when the Right/GOP can say, print (Palin's myth filled book), promote anything without any accountability by the Beltway Press, the GOP has no need for intellectually honest consistency in their claims."
I haven't been this happy, since this day:
"TP reader Grumpy Demo points out that Bush’s official 483-word bio on the presidential library website doesn’t have a single mention of the Iraq war. "
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/03/16/bush-bio-...
Now if I can give William Kritol a wedgie, I will die a happy man.
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