Twelve Dead at Fort Hood
By Jason Sigger Friday Nov 06, 2009 12:00pmThere's just not much to say about the tragic news yesterday - twelve 13 dead and 30 injured as a result of a "lone gunman," now identified as an Army major. MAJ Nidal Hasan was a psychiatrist who had graduated from Virginia Tech in 1997 and spent six years at Walter Reed Army Medical Clinic before moving to Fort Hood. He was not a happy man.
In an interview, his aunt, Noel Hasan of Falls Church, said he had endured name-calling and harassment about his Muslim faith for years after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and had sought for several years to be discharged from the military.
"I know what that is like," she said. "Some people can take it, and some cannot. He had listened to all of that, and he wanted out of the military, and they would not let him leave even after he offered to repay" for his medical training.
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He had been affected by the physical and mental injuries he saw while working as a psychiatrist at Walter Reed for nearly eight years, according to his aunt. "He must have snapped," Noel Hasan said. "They ignored him. It was not hard to know when he was upset. He was not a fighter, even as a child and young man. But when he became upset, his face turns red." She said Hasan had consulted with an attorney about getting out of the service.On the rare occasions when he spoke of his work in any detail, the aunt said, Hasan told her of soldiers wracked by what they had seen. One patient had suffered burns to his face so intense "that his face had nearly melted," she said. "He told us how upsetting that was to him."
It's clear that this was not a simple case of "Vietnam Vet" syndrome. He was a prior enlisted soldier who got a commission through ROTC, and was promoted to major last year. Hasan had not deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, but he was faced with the aftermath of that conflict on a very personal basis. In a big organization like the Army, and on a huge and busy base like Fort Hood, it's clear that his colleagues and other people who probably saw his behavior worsen didn't see the opportunity to intervene. With big organizations, sometimes the system fails the individuals who need the most help. It's a horrible situation, but this is what war can lead to - the injuries aren't limited to the battlefield. Thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims at Fort Hood.
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"Thoughts and prayers are with the families of the victims at Fort Hood."
As well as hopes as a country we can return to some kind of sanity.
influencing our children and leading them into the future.
http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Perez+Hilt...
and here's hoping adults grow up and behave like adults too. Honestly, the rage and vitriol out there in the world is appalling... there's no sense of kindness unless you're getting yours out of it. Sad and totally wasteful of the lives we're here to live. Of course, that's just my opinion...
a person works for eight years with people who suffer injuries so traumatic that they would have died in any previous war.
this person works for eight years with people who have lost limbs, sight, cognitive function, flesh melted bodies, etc.
this same person works for eight years in that environment, and all the while he is called rag head and assorted other names, and threatened.
and then one day they tell him, hey, we're going to send you to that place where all the horrific injuries come from, oh, and yes, you will still be harassed and you will still have to suffer racist insults and threats.
and then this person snaps.
Sympathies to those who lost family and friends, this didn't have to happen.
Having grown up in a military family, I pretty much doubt anyone would say ethnic slurs to his face with that rank. Granted he was a medical doctor, so I assume he entered straight as captain. But still...
Of course at this point is just a guessing game. But I think it is more plausible that what made this guys snap, was having to deal with the business end of mental trauma on a large number of soldiers. That could put even the sanest of persons in a very very compromised mental position.
I think as a society we still don't get that we're sending people to wars, not automatons without human emotions.
Mikey Weinstein, a former JAG officer and legal counsel to President Reagan, has been harassed, his home and car vandalized, his life threatened. All for trying to stop the "pervasive and pernicious pattern and practice of unconstitutional religious rape of freedoms of our U.S. military."
Now people have died because of that "pattern and practice."
Maj. Hasan should be punished for his crimes.
But so should the U.S. military. And all those who aided, condoned, encouraged, and endorsed the abuse which caused Maj. Hasan to snap.
Can you immagine an endless war , where soldiers see their closes friends get blown apart on a daily basis.
Then serving 2,3,4 ? tours of duty in that hell hole..
And yet the beat goes on....
If everyone was a patriot like Cheney there would be no fighting just word battles because they would have deferments for service...
I can not believe how the news media attacks the democrats while leaving the republican alone for the photo opt of using patriotism , the American flag and other saying which have been proving false by their deceptive actions..
I have no sympathy for murderers- Every killer has a sob story- Mark David Chapman had a miserable upbringing- did that excuse him for killing Lennon?
Most parents who beat their children were themselves beaten as children- should they escape responsibility beacause of what happened to them?
The killer has ZERO excuse for his acts of murder.....
Yeah if I push you hard enough and often enough, and finally you push me back, It's YOUR fault.
I cannot understand anyone who can simplify this very complex series of events by focusing on "no excuses". We are not looking for excuses. Anyone with two brain cells knows there are no excuses for these acts. So why waste bandwidth stating what any moronic teabagger can pull out of their nether reaches over at Hot air?
Sorry, but the killer doesn't have any justification for what he did...I'll say it again- EVERY murderer has a sob story.
To suggest that it was the fault of those around him blames the victims...
The best things this murdering scumbag should have done is shoot himself in the head....
Trying to find out the why of what happened is not to blame anyone else.
It's to make sure that it doesn't happen again.
If Hasan was harassed to the point of snapping and going postal on his fellow soldiers (and I'm not saying that's what happened, I don't know), don't you think it would be wise to look into institutionalized racism surrounding Muslim Americans?
Companies make employees go through sensitivity classes not because it's their fault, but to reduce the environment in which a vulnerable person might act out.
Dear Bush Co. (including all the Neocons, especially those who will not shut up, Cheney and Kristol): Your chickens have begun coming home to roost. Where shall we send them? Another miscalculation on your part,thinking there would be no blow back, you dishonest, war mongering, war profiteering criminals. May you all get that you have coming. By the way, we are sending the chickens to you COD. Thank you in advance for your time and attention.
We will being seeing the effect of bushs war on our society for a long time, from the vets who cant walk to the ones that cant intergrate themselves back to the cilvilian lifestyle. The money and tears that are to come from this disater are going to paid by all of us for a very long time.
but there are reasons. And if we can understand and attempt to deal with those reasons, perhaps others will be spared an ordeal such as this one.
Exactly.
racism and bullying.
But that doesn't excuse murder
.
.
perhaps in your pea head it was supposed to.
my point was that this never had to happen in the first place.
Seriously I'm already sick of hearing all the handringing over an Army officer who gunned down a pregnant woman in cold blood.
I believe most people are talking about the reasons he did it. NO one believes that there is an excuse for it...
H... who knows he might just turn out to be a terrorism.... But I believe you should give people time to investigate it..
If people are under the opinion that all Muslins are terrorist than they should not take them into the service....
Personally I believe it this was done to anyone in my family , I might think about taking care of it my self...
All the right wing does is spew hatred- My guess is soon they wil use this tragedy as an excuse to voice hatred for all Muslims....
Need I finish?
They've been spewing this hatred since 9/11.
Peaceful Imams detained, Muslims (and even Hindus) killed, Mosques defiled, extreme rendition on admittedly innocent people.
Where have you been?
GWB proclaimed it as a Crusade.
Where the f*** have you been?
It's been happening all over the country since Saudis flew airplanes into the WTC and Pentagon.
BTW, Malkin, Faux News already are doing it.
Stupid fucking Army. This guy was not a red flag. He was an incendiary signal fire. I'm sure the very misnamed "higher ups" figured he was unnaffected by the stories of playing soccer with sand ****** heads, or blowing the face off of haji kids and wearing their skull caps as hats.
And the Army's answer? Ship him to the ME.
Those dumb Army command pencil pushers couldn't find their ass with both hands. But of course I'm full of shit because we all have to take responsibility for our actions, or physician heal thyself, or some such philisophical platitude excrement of denial. Speaking of responsibility, I hope the asshole who vandalized his car feels good about getting his buddies killed.
edit: Sorry about the use of the N word, but the truth is the truth.
Indeed. I'd sure like to see this asswipe get caught, but I wouldn't expect it.
Comes when there have been concerns expressed about soldier suicide rates, rape among their fellow soldiers, and contractors fighting with soldiers. All of this has led to little to no action among the ranks of the military and has allowed hatred and demoralization to fester.
Now, an extreme occurence of a soldier taking it out on fellow soldiers at his home base, rather than himself. As much as I think this was a suicide attempt thinking that he would be killed during his rampage, I also see by this story that it could have been prevented if properly examined by the hierarchy. I only hope this will be a catalyst for change in the military ranks, but don't have much confidence that it will.
... that there's an institutionalized 'man up' mentality here. Oh, someone called you a raghead? Man up, Hassan. Someone defaced your car? Man up, Hassan. Getting deployed to the ME? Man up, Hassan.
Everyone expects the victim to be a big boy, not cry, and just deal with it.
Besides Wall Street and the Industrialists and Politicians?
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Christian fundies who want to wipe nonbelievers of the earth.
Racists who beleve in the coming race wars.
As Michel Caine said in the latest Batman movie, "There are some people that just want to watch the world burn.".
is what happens to people who care for other people that have been though traumatic events. Those of us who do work in the mental health field should know that we have to do just as good a job taking care of ourselves as we do out patients. This event is the result of failures at many levels. His superiors should have taken better care to look out for their people. He should have reached out for help if he was having these thoughts. A tragedy all around.
... a lot of people don't get the burden health care professionals (and specially mental health professionals) have to endure to keep their bearings and sanity.
A lot of people complain when their doctor is not "close" or "warm enough" but some time, people in those positions have to disassociate themselves from their patients using a wall, else their sanity would be soon eroded. The health care system in the US, and its organization, does not help in these matters either.
The United States simply needs to cease all combat operations in the Middle East. What is it going to take? The suicide rate is at record levels among the military. Multiple deployments are taking massive tolls on minds and bodies. Our country, for all intent and purpose, is broke because of this madness that was started by the Bush Administration. When our military begins to turn on themselves, something is drastically and terribly wrong. How can our military effectively engage any enemy, when they are hating their comrades in arms and killing themselves and each other??
... that requires intellectual honesty and courage. Shit, we won't even look to prosecuting the war criminals who savaged our laws and Constitution, conducted torture and illegally detained foreign nationals for years.
You want to go to war, then grow a sack and institute a draft.
This situation is directly a function of the lack of fortitude within our government. Our politicians don't want to make difficult decisions, and simply push the shit down the hill to be managed by the poor sap that is last in line.
Our military has been designed to fight high tech wars against high tech enemies. Our government was warned about taking on low tech wars, particularly unnecessary low tech wars, without having made the hard decisions of necessary manpower, deployment, dangers of "city fighting", casualties, and most importantly an exit strategy.
Despite the sheer magnitude of the dollars spent, most of which have lined the pockets of private corporations and shysters, we have fought this war "on the cheap". Inferior equipment, lack of body armor, poor housing. Through the use of stop loss, we have recycled soldiers over and over, long after they have fulfilled their obigation to the country. We have treated them unfairly and inhumanely, as if they were simply another piece of throwaway high tech garbage.
Our government laid the foundation for this catastrophe 7 years ago, and blame for this horror, and the as yet unexperienced horror lie firmly with the master designers of these two wars.
The military is structured along 'industrial' terms - the industrial might to produce tanks, planes, warships generally designates the winner.
What we're fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan is an entirely different kind of war. It's not quite the guerilla warfare of Vietnam, but it's close. And we're trying to conduct both a police action and a military action at the same time, goals that aren't necessarily compatible/consistent with one another, or for which our troops are properly equipped/trained.
In Malcolm Gladwell's BLINK, he relates what General Paul von Riper did during a war exercise - disproved the 'total information' mindset of the Pentagon by going analog - using bike messengers and runners. The Pentagon chose to ignore what he'd done, prohibited him from using those techniques, and won the exercise, thus claiming their strategy was the next big thing.
Brig. General Rupert Smith also relates this fundamental difference in THE UTILITY OF FORCE, pointing out that we're relying on old or misguided strategies as a solution for a new battlefield, and that's not how it works.
Too much hoo-ah, not enough thinking.
Thre are some things in the event that dont add up for me, I am not going to draw any conclusions about it though. First, unless things have changed, an officer can resign his commission and be out in a few weeks, so if he really didnt want to go to Iraq he had that option. Second, this guy was one of the people that looked for the red flag types that would do things to hurt others and/or themselves after comung back from combat, so watchs the watchers and where they for this guy who if the media is to be believed, was writng on web sites, making statements, and in general sending signals that something was not right. There are sure to be many things to come out about this event and the man, I just would like to know who was responsible for giving the OK to send this guy to Iraq.
that the Army paid his way through Med school and that he owed them a hitch. That would explain why he had problems "getting out", as well as Army reluctance to let him go. BTW, I've worked at a hospital and by far the most batshit crazy professionals are the shrinks.
I don't know about all doctors, but the "shrink" who I had sessions with about ten years ago might have saved my life. Had I not had the benefit of her knowledge, I'm not sure I would have regained my self worth.
While she was practicing, she helped a lot of people. But a couple of her patients did not make it, she still wears the burden of that with her to this day.
The day she retired, she promised she would never talk about what she did or the patients she saw ever again. And that was that... Psychiatry is an interesting discipline, because it requires the doctor to get close to the patient to be able to diagnose, while a doctor has to maintain a certain level of distance and self preservation to make an objective and correct treatment.
So frankly, I am not surprised a lot of shrinks end up having tons of mental anguish issues. It is amazing where the human mind can go, and for those professionals which have to witness it and its deviant directions, it ain't pretty.
Unless things have changed since I was in the penelty he would have to pay for the Army to send him to med school is to reimburse the cost. It is also my understanding that he already had done the six years of service that is required to fulfil his oblegation.
PS I friend of mine said once "That if you ever want to see a shrink lie to your face, ask them why they became a shrink. They will give every answear but the truth, which is that they are to proud to admit that they are crazy and go to school to find out for themselves."
Considering all the neglect that goes on for our military in regards to psychological care and other needs of our soldiers, I'm not surprised this was overlooked.
Also, I read some of the "horrible" stuff this guy wrote about suicide bombers as compared to soldiers who jump on a landmine and it's actually quite thoughtful analysis. Not the usual crazy Islamic radical stuff I'm used to reading. In all honesty, anyone who has the least bit of understanding of the hopelessness of many poor people in the countries torn apart by perpetual war, sanctions and oppression can understand the reason why suicide bombings are used.
That said, none of this answers why he would kill the very people he was supposed to be helping. That is the answer I'm waiting for. Until then, everything else is just excuses and speculation. My hope is that, unlike Columbine, 9/11, David Koresh, Timothy McVeigh and so many others, America does more than just writing it off as "evil" and actually tries to understand what the forces were that lead to this guy's "snap". We're getting better, with Jim Adkisson, Scott Roeder and some of the recent ones we've actually looked into the causes. Let's continue that trend.
then he has a contractual obligation, and the penalties are pretty severe upon severance before the commitment is up.
maybe this is disconnect, but to me these useless war(s) for oil come at a heavy price.
It's a price we'll be paying for years to come.
I know VN vets who are still paying the price. The ones I see on the street I try to help. The ones I don't see regularly are in VA hospitals. The 'lucky' ones are outpatients.
I listened to an interview that was done with his cousin when everyone thought the Major was dead. He said his cousin's worst nightmare was being sent to one of the wars. If I understood him correctly he said that Nidal joined the military before 9-11 never expecting to ever fight in a war. Before 9-11 I don't think any of us expected our soldiers to be fighting in a war any time soon. He said his cousin had hired an attorney to try to help him get out of the Army but that never went anywhere.
We can't go back and keep what happened yesterday from happening, but we sure as hell work to find out why it happened and hopefully keep a similar event from happening in the future.
Obama has had almost a year to get us the hell out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
He has done neither.
We all know, or should know, that soldiers deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan have been driven to suicide.
This man was driven to homicide.
These wars are absolute horrors.
There is no justification for them.
We should not be forcing our soldiers to kill people or face the prospect of being killed in Iraq or Afghanistan.
If Obama won't get us out, we should throw his ass out and elect someone who will.
It's not like this is a new phenomenon. Just the worst one so far on our own soil.
"Anyone who thinks western or Israeli imperialism solves the riddle of Muslim violence must explain why we don't see Tibetan suicide bombers killing Chinese children. The Tibetans have suffered every bit as much as the Palestinians.... Where are the throngs of Tibetans seething with hatred, calling for the deaths of the Chinese? . . . What is the difference that makes the difference? Religion.... Read the Koran. Osama bin Laden is playing it more or less by the book. Anyone who says that there is no basis for his worldview in the doctrine of Islam is either dangerously ignorant or just dangerous." --Sam Harris
The more occupied a people, the more they turn to suicide bombings. Did it ever occur to you that Tibet is so geographically isolated that it is nearly impossible for them to construct bombs even if they wanted to? Islam itself does not make men murderers. Enough of this shit.
...and time.
Can you say KAMAKZI.In the Vietnam war there are many incidents where the Viet Cong used suicide bombers. The Luftwaffe during the last days of the war had suicide pilots that would ram US bombers with their own plane. Lastly during the late 19th century there are many instants of suicide bombers killing. or attempting, to kill European leaders. These type of warfare is nothing new, it has been going on since the start of the human race.
... those who will die for the greater good. Many Americans went out on suicide missions during wars.
Why do you expect other inhabitants of the world to do differently?
hand picked examples. It is a tad disingenuous me thinks.
That being said, Islam as a religion is a fairly destructive one... at least in the directions it has been taken. However, I think it is quite a stretch to associated the religion of the suspect as the only motive for this killing spree.
I will say... I believe it was the the primary reason. The same reason, he no doubt suffered tremendous discrimination and the shameful treatment that's been reported. What do you think was the cause of his noted harassment?
I have no horse in this race, that doesn't mean a race isn't happening. It's all in the interpretation... I've been wrong before. What about you?
Richard Dawkins habla con un musulmán Thanks for your time and opinion as well.
the "analysis" from the guy your cited in your original post, and the specific situation of the guy who went on a rampage.
I was just pointing out that the conclusion reached by Sam Harris was based on a very flawed (and it seems fairly intellectually dishonest) analysis. That is all...
This post by Jason Sigger reminds me of what Cheney once said about Liberals wanting to give murderers therapy. Instead of lamenting the system that failed to prevent this horriffic mass murder, we need to counter-attack the Debbie Schlussel's and Pam Geller's of the world who are using this incident to attack our military and American Muslims. Let's quit the scholarly analysis for once and go after the bitches who are spreading hate.
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The guy screamed Allahu Akbar before opening up, puhleez - this is another radical Muslim killing Americans. There are plenty of mental health services available, especially for this guy - he was on Officer - the comments posted here are just unbelievable, it is really time for the left to grow up and get real. Many posters on here are real quick to criticize a looney like Bachman, and rightly so, it is time to quit making excuses for religious whackos, no matter which fictional supreme being they claim to follow.
>"The guy screamed Allahu Akbar before opening up, puhleez - this is another radical Muslim killing Americans."
Really, you heard him? I mean it's not like the Army would ever lie (cough, Tillman, cough, cough.)
Even if he did, saying "God is great" is common to all religions.
>"Islam as a religion is a fairly destructive one... at least in the directions it has been taken"
So is Xtianinty. It's the extremists, not the religion.
If this was any other name or religion we'd be calling it 'suicide by cop.'
It's just as easy to dismiss people in such stress that they would rather die than be alive and they can't do it themselves.
Myself, I think it's like Columbine, but we don't know all the facts yet. And we probably never will.
It's a harsh truth, but you can never protect yourself from a lone gunman who is willing to die.
NOBODY EVEN REPORTED THAT HE WAS JEWISH....
When Jews commit crimes they are not identified as Jews - with the extreme exception of Bernie Madoff... and then we were cautioned day and night for a month that it was ANTI SEMITIC to even suggest such a thing.... Goldman Sachs anybody?
The treatment of this guy is what made him hate us.... and Jews in Media aren't helping. They insist that Jews be judged as individuals... but them Muslims... they are ALL MURDERERS.
Well... then all Jews are slippery crooks.
The bottom line: Nobody will have learned anything and nothing will change.
Are we all responsible if we pick up a gun and start shooting people? Yeah, yeah. Banally.
But the guy had apparently been crapped on for ages and was ready to crack. He was a psychiatrist and had been trying to get out of the service and apparently was spot on with his professional diagnosis of himself. Would have been helpful, in retrospect, if somebody had listened to him instead of the SOP military "suck it up," don't you think?
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