Bill Kristol on torture memos: 'Bring it on' and have Dick Cheney testify!
By John Amato Sunday Apr 26, 2009 10:53am
(h/t Heather)
Bill Kristol is upset that the release of the CIA torture memos will open up the potential for criminal prosecutions of Bush officials. William "the Bloody" Kristol wants to release all the CIA memos and have Dick Cheney testify about them. Wow, he even admits that torture is a crime, but brings up another right-wing canard: that releasing the CIA memos and more photographs of abuse hurts our national security.
(rough transcript)
Kristol: Torture is a crime, that is agreed upon. If these memos are so crazy, so ridiculous in their legal analysis ... three people being waterboarded, a few instances of waterboarding might not qualify as torture under certain circumstances, which is what the memos argued, then he (Obama) opened the door, and once he opened the door they're going down that road...
It's the Bush administration who authorized these things, they're still running against the Bush administration. Let's stipulate that the Bush administration did a lot for things wrong. How does that legitimize do something now that will damage our national security?
Williams: How does it damage out national security? I think when you have President Obama say somewhere we have lost our moral bearings. I don't think there's any doubt about that...
Kristol: There's a lot of doubt...
Williams: You said a moment ago that torture is illegal. You gotta remember President Reagan was out there signing the UN convention, we will not participate in torture as an American people. So something went wrong there.
Mara Liasson then argues about the Justice Department officials involved, and Brit Hume (as usual) just thinks it's all a farce. Yeah, torturing people is soooo comical, so inconsequential.
Mara: You might think that the lawyers of the Bush justice Department came out with a decision that was wrong, legally wrong and morally repugnant, but it doesn't mean that they committed a crime. That they said, ohhh we know this is torture, we're just going ot cook this up. The question is whether they did this in good faith or not. and if...
Hume: I predict Mara, based on what you're saying that any prosecution which will come out of this will be a total farce.
There will be a series of show trials with "grand inquisitions' and all the kinds of things we've been associated with. It's possible that those lawyers will get hauled before Congress and do to any investigation there Oliver North did to the e9/11 commission, which was to render it the farce that it always was from the beginning, that would be a good outcome, but this whole area ... what should be a closed chapter -- I don't see any national benefit to it...
Kristol:... I think now that the door is open, I say "bring it on." Let's have a big national debate on this. Let's have Steve Bradbury confront his accusers, who are one tenth the lawyers he is, and we're not under the pressure he was under and not a real threat. Let's have George Tenet testify. Let's have Mick Hagen testify. Let's have a serious debate, let's have Dick Cheney take on anyone that the left wants to produce about whether we were responsible, whether it was a dark chapter in our history that we have to be ashamed of or whether the US government behaved in a very fine way and I think a very impressive way...
Bloody Bill thinks Bush and Cheney's torturing of people is a very impressive way to handle prisoners.
I always love when right-wing hacks use the word "serious." It's only they who are the "serious" people, and therefore the world is only properly ruled by their hand. And he's confident that the propaganda that would be spewed by Cheney and his ilk will muddy up the waters enough to fool the American people.
Me, I'd like to see Cheney have to get in front of Henry Waxman.
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Bring it on. You'll lose. Badly.
Being that Bill is ALWAYS wrong, this WILL blow up in his face.
Please Bill, suggest that War Crimes Charges against Cheney and Rummy are a bad idea that will go nowhere...
I mean, he is like a magic eightball.. but in reverse.
...prosecuting any Repugs over these crimes will just be a communistic "Show Trial" Their contention is getting louder and more frequent, and will probably lead to more 'Tea Parties' and Repug riots when people are (finally) indicted, put on trial.
put both these guys under oath for questioning about "enhanced interrogation. kristol being alittle coy by
trying to make it seem like this could become a big spectacle jeopardizing national security. he's really saying we don't want to do this.
Once again the framing limits the scope of the concept.
That is what they are up to, don't let them do it.
The whole rotten mess would go down, it should go down.
Chris Floyd at Counterpunch here:
excerpt:
I would add to that the Oligarchs on Wall Street. Start prosecuting any Big Shot and who knows where it will end.
We might even end up prosecuting ALL of the Great Crooks like George Bush, Henry Paulson and even the Wall Street Crooks who looted the Treasury for hundreds of billions. It took Bush and his war profiteers six years to rip off $600 billion. Paulson beat that in one week.
Chris Floyd again at his site, here.
Excerpts adding to his Counterpunch thesis above:
Echoing my point above:
You're sooo right that prosecutions would invoke a domino-effect of higher-ups being thrown under the bus... but isn't it in fact time for throwing out the bad-elite? Without sweeping change, we won't see any change at all!
The torture which is consequence of 9/11, Iraq, oil, mercenaries, all the corporate sponsors, don't they all constitute a 'bad' elite?
Let us break down this wall like others have broken theirs, meaning Prosecutions of how-many-higher-ups is required to restore FAITH IN the USA... How 'bout we start restoring faith at home NOW?
Us people cannot afford to allow the criminals to run the compensation-department, corrections, or the white-wash commissions any longer... eventually we'll take all of that on ourselves, and that eventuality seems to me to be NOW!
simulated drowning is simulated torture. not really torture but just feels like torture in that it could kill ya because the simulation is so realistic. but simulated. not real. just realistic. just like torture.
...Actual drowning is "death", not "simulated death".
the air. We can properly close this dark chapter in our history and stop the debate as to whether or not we tortured, or just did this "enhanced interrogation" thing...whatever the f*ck that is.
ALSO, we can hold those accountable who were permitting these crimes to happen. I mean....we impeached President Clinton for a blow job?? Please, let's not get dumber than we already are, ok?
I could go on and on. We DON'T want this to ever happen again, and we want our government to realize that WE THE PEOPLE will hold them accountable for the laws of the land...national and international.
So, STFU britt, you zombie f*cktard!
And while we are at it, could we please release the rape and sodomy memos...seymour hersh:"Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay?"...things like little boys sodomized in front of their mother...all on video...and those guys on the right saying "water board me..it's not so bad"...how about we sodomize your little boys, rape your daughters and wives first before we waterboard you...how would that be?
With so many of the CIA tapes destroyed we may never know the full extent of the tortures done in our name, but we know that by trying to limit the argument to waterboarding alone the Chairborne Warriors are trying to downplay the crimes.
When Kristol said " they're still running against the Bush administration" he revealed the nature of REPUBLICAN governance...to continually seek re-election! If these apologists had any other concern than the perpetuation of their power they would condemn the torture and call for full trials.
They just want another chance to do it all over again.
"Me, I'd like to see Cheney have to get in front of a firing squad."
there, fixed it for you. =)
And as far as the game will probably be played, he's right. But he mistakes the objects of the groundswell of anger.
Does anyone really have a problem with key Democrats being investigated for their knowledge and complicity in these crimes? Of course not. Anyone have a problem with Jane Harmon having to answer some questions? Doubtful.
This is not about "getting" Republicans or NeoCons although they are definitely in the deepest.
This is about torture.
And while I believe key Democrats should answer questions as well, Kristol and his ilk are being exposed for what they really are. They will not be judged kindly for this.
...on a waterboard.
Bring it on, but what can the criminal Reslugs redact or have conveniently disappear between now and them.
thoes rape and sodomy pictures were passed around among the house and senate cruds and were supposed to be released to the public , well had they been released the american public thats still not just inbread morons would have held hemp partys on the whitehouse lawn and the washington mall! of course that was then lord knows how much more inbreading has happened since then!
Being asked questions that weren't pre approved.
I don't see it happening. Neither does Kristol.
He's blowing smoke.
I think that having Cheney testify under oath would be just what this country needs. It would be interesting to see how many times he would invoke the 5th amendment during that testimony. It would be the start of what was needed to get criminal prosecutions started against all of criminals in our government, and no I would not care where it stopped.
Problem is with Cheney is that he is a known habitual liar and would lie under oath or most likely be forced to take the FIFTH. Dick-Head thinks he is above the law and he would just snub his arrogant nose at taking the oath.
from blogger WTF is it now:
Bill "always wrong" Kristol has gone totally fucking batshit crazy:
Cheney in 2012!
"Of course, everyone’s first choice for president in 2012 is Dick Cheney. But Liz Cheney’s boffo performance yesterday in the lefties’ den, MSNBC, defending sensible interrogation policies in the war on terror, surely puts her in contention for the runner-up position."
I love it when that Fox bimbo says 'the Bush Administration may have done something legally wrong but that doesn't mean it's illegal'.
Uh... haha.
Sure, I may have acted immorally, but that doesn't mean I wasn't acting morally!
"It's not illegal if the President does it".
sound familiar?
The biggest farce going is that the "Fox News Channel" is actually considered news.
I always found that when Bush used the word “serious” it indicated he had no clue what he was talking about, but he could tell that other people saw something wrong.
that a vast majority of repukes are against the release of the memos, and against bringing charges against those that allowed the torture
proving once and for all that the vast majority of repukes are sick, evil bastards and that there is no hope for this nation
OJ promised the world that he would find the people that murdered his ex-wife and Ron Goldman. Never happened because OJ knew who really did this horrible crime. Cheney had every opportunity to torture people to find out where Bin Laden was hiding, yet it appears that he never pursued this avenue. Maybe that is because Cheney really knew who was behind the carnage of 9/11 and finding Bin Laden would have exposed the truth...
They said the same thing just before the Watergate hearings.
The insulting thing about Hume and Kristol is that they think that the US public is just so stupid that they will lose interest. They actually DO consider public opinion. It's just that they consider public opinion will follow their consistently incorrect predictions.
Hume cites the failure of Iran Contra to jail any big wigs, but North was convicted of multiple felony counts as was Poindexter. The difference is that we now have a Democrat in the WH who will not automatically pardon these criminals from a previous administration.
Let's do it.
Cheney/Kristol/Hume/Göring Logic:
If only Saddam Hussein had been smart enough to solicit a legal opinion from his government lawyers that gassing people was within the law, he could have been playing golf in Myrtle Beach right now. (h/t TPM)
I thought for a second FOX had grown a pair of man-balls when I read, "have Dick Cheney testify!" but nah, they all have vaginas in their $10,000 taylored suits but can't wipe their own butts. What a bunch of Dandies. If I wasn't sure, I'd think I was watching a one hour men's fashion show, face-lifts, hair dye, etc. FOX has become the homo version of Charlie's Angels.
Does Kristol's challenge remind you of anything? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKdbZWNqF00
Odd that these thugs would put so much faith in the Democratic party to continue covering for the biggest crime spree in American history. How many Democrats are involved in this, and how high does their involvement go?
and i have no prob seeing both of them kicked to the curb
because i have a board, a rag and a jug of water. so then BRING EM ON!
i'm ready and i have a lot of questions.
When Cheney made his request for declassification of CIA reports that would "prove" the value of the "enhanced interrogation techniques which are really torture by another name but they worked so it's OK" .. he specified 2 files in a file folder in HIS office named "Detainees".
High time for an Freedom Of Information Request for that ENTIRE folder.
Yeah .. Bring It On!
(I can't believe it - I'm agreeing with Bill Kristol!)
is this Nation going to eradicate the 'cancer' that has been allowed to survive since Nixon!
This Cheney-Rumsfeld-Wolfowitz-etc-etc cabal that was there during Watergate and all the subsequent 'gates', has cost this Country more than ever can be imagined.
To the gallows!
They are the Spiritual Heirs of Prescott Bush.
Nixon was Prescott Bush's protege.
And it was Prescott Bush's Boys who ran the Eisenhower administration. Ike was their front man, doubtless unwittingly at first. John Foster Dulles (Sect of State) and Alan Welsh Dulles (CIA Director) ran Ike's foreign policy, which included coups in Iran and Guatemala, and taking over the French war against Ho Chi Minh. The first US combat death recorded on The Wall occurred during the Eisenhower administration.
JFK kept Alan Welsh Dulles as CIA Director until it came to light that he had participated in the planning for Operation Northwoods. JFK fired him. Two years later JFK was assassinated. Alan Welsh Dulles served on the Warren Commission that ruled Lee Harvey Oswald had operated alone, killing JFK.
They're ruthless, they're brutal, and they've been here a long time.
Here is Parenti on the theme.
1 2 3
Quite a bit on Oswald.
I am not holding my breath , it's a long shot but I hope and pray Cheney and the cabal pay one day , it's the only way this country can redeem itself and recover from the Bush / Cheney disaster , if this ends up being swept under the rug this country will never again be the same , never .
Is anybody home for CHRIST'S sake?
Christ died from TORTURE
.
According to Bill's Kristol balls...
... If I rob a few banks, I'm not a bank robber.
... If I kill a few people, I'm not a murderer.
... If I rape a few women, I'm not a rapist.
... If I tell a few lies, I'm not a liar.
... If I cheat on a few tests, I'm not a cheater.
... If I throw a few boxing matches, I'm not throwing fights.
WOW,
What a wonderful life Bill has.
.
Cheney testify? Hmm...somebody needs to tell Bill Cheney doesn't testify, he refuses to testify.
As chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, would this investigation fall under the auspices of Pat Leahy? If so, the last "f-you" would be Pat's. Such sweet irony.
What a poor, totally defensive position, the Republicans have put themselves in. They have to DEFEND torture as a)rarely used or b)effective or c)not REALLY torturous. So even if they win all the arguments, all they have accomplished is the right to torture people!!! Is that what they mean by a party that stands for something?
... is that hardly any American ever looks at the right-wingers (like Cheney) and thinks: IF what they are saying is true, why DOESN'T Cheney go before Waxman? Let him tell the "truth."
Re: "Me, I'd like to see Cheney have to get in front of Henry Waxman."
There are many more instances, too. The only explanation I have heard (and it is LAME) is: "The Democrats will LIE and RAILROAD us!"
Cowards. Chicken-sh*t babies.
"Bloody Bill thinks Bush and Cheney's torturing of people is a very impressive way to handle prisoners."
Of course he does! While I would be loathe to give Republicans credit for actually having empathy, I actually do think they (exemplified by Kristol) put themselves in the hypothetical situation. It's in their mind's eye that they see they'd cave within a millisecond of an ice cube being pressed against their lower molar and thus, extrapolate the "fact" that "It works!".
Even armed with the knowledge that it doesn't work, it (at the very least) compensates for their own personal cowardice. That is, it's an outlet to stomp on whatever phantasms they can concoct out of their blackened morass of brain matter.
who says cheney even shows up?
Fox News!
I seriously hate Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeild. Rove is a dick too. That group, is the worst group ever to come to the republican party. They should be ashamed of them selves fooling all those nice christian people.
Repeat that Glenn- the dewsh -Beck
What is the deal? What is the beef here?
Time and again I hear the right wing saying that the law is irrelevant so long as your actions produce results. Which is, with no partisan posturing but simple logic, the same as saying the holocaust was a success, that Stalin's starvation of Ukraine was a good idea, that cabinet purges, assassination of dissidents, murder, rape, pillage, etc, are all good things so long as you change the law or get away with it.
I mean it's a morally reprehensible and indefensible stand point. I don't understand how these guys can make these insane claims. David Frum literally said that abusing the law is fine if you get results.
The law is the freakin' law. I guess there's no law against changing the law...so if you wanted to say 'murder is ok so long as I do it' there wouldn't be a problem, would there?
where is the damn Judge to try this thing?
I would like to see Bill Kristol put up or shut up. Go under the water board Bill and if you can last 15 seconds. I'll believe it's not torture
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