Frustration
The debate rages on as to whose fault it is that we find ourselves in the situation that Joe Lieberman can decide to cut whatever he likes out of the health-care reform bill and tongue kiss Dana Bash while doing it. Was the Obama administration so naive that they didn't think they needed to cut a deal with Lieberman on health care as soon as he won the election? Joe actually supported John McCain to the bitter end and bloggers made the argument that Joe should go from the beginning of his term, but the leadership decided to keep him on board.
Yes, the health-care fight was never going to be easy so why didn't David Axelrod secure Joe's vote on health-care before it got off the ground? It boggles the mind. We all know what prima donnas conservative Democrats are in the Senate. It's quite clear that Lieberman is only interested in punishing liberals and not helping Americans. They knew who he was. He wasn't f*&king hiding. He was stumping for McCain!
Howie Klein, Digby and I all thought that the Senate was ultimately going to call the shots at the end. I always figured the House would pass a fairly progressive bill, but it was the ConservaDems in the House of Lords who would be the problem. So that's why Blue America targeted Blanche Lincoln. She was the only senator up for re-election and had to face the voters in 2010.
Matt Yglesias makes a good case as to why this mess isn't really Obama's fault, but I don't agree with all of it.
I think there’s something perverse in the very strong desire I see among liberals to make problems in congress be about anything other than congress. It’s just not in the power of Barack Obama to make the senate anything other than what it is. To pass a bill, you need sixty votes. To get sixty votes you need Ben Nelson or Olympia Snowe to back your bill. Neither Nelson nor Snowe is especially liberal, and the President doesn’t have a great deal of leverage over either of them. You can try to change the rules, or you can accept that you’re at the mercy of Nelson and Snowe and maybe a few other moderate members.
And it’s crucial to remember that these people—each and every member of congress—is an adult human being, capable of making up his or her own mind, responsible for his or her own decisions, and possessed of moral agency. These are men and women who have amassed a great deal of power, and who ultimately need to decide on a daily basis what it is they want to do with that power. If they choose to use it for bad ends, then blame them for that, not Obama or his team’s alleged lack of familiarity with the United States Senate.
I really like Matt's writing. First, I never thought Tom Daschle was the guy for the job because he whipped the Dems to vote for the war in 2002, but maybe I'm wrong there. Obama is still the president and he won a mandate with health-care reform on the table. I think part of the problem is their inexperience in real-world governance and especially in handling a piece of legislation this massive and this momentous.
I believe that President Obama does want to pass good health-care reform, but you can't use the same tactics that were used for running a general election campaign and apply them to legislation. Not with the Senate vacant of any decent Republican human beings. The president is a wonderful speaker and a great communicator, but there was no way he could swoop in at the end and save the day like he was able to do in the general election. Policy does not work like that as we've just seen.
I'm not sure how that will all work out in the end. But I'm fairly confident that the deficit scolds are getting ready to launch a full scale offensive on government spending, so "improving the bill" in any financial way is probably not going to be on the agenda any time soon, certainly not with a looming election and tanking poll numbers. And with the president's approval rating suffering not simply due to health care reform, but because of unemployment and economic torpor, what we get in this health care reform bill had better be enough to last us for quite a while.
Since the media loves Lieberman and everything he stands for, no matter what bill is passed he'll suddenly be the face of it and the Villagers will rejoice.
I feel like those more supportive of this bill are attacking anti-mandate strawmen. The reason for thinking that without a public option or similar mandates are going to be a disaster is that without competition or sufficient affordability (due to not quite generous enough subsidies), you're forcing people to buy shitty insurance that they can't afford. Mandates aren't bad in and of themselves, but they're bad if they aren't part of a comprehensive plan which is... good!
Now, the reforms moving through Congress won't produce a system as comprehensive as what the Netherlands or Switzerland has. But that's not because of the individual mandate, which actually makes a lot of sense. (Read here if you want chapter and verse on that.) That's because the subsidies and regulation in these bills aren't as generous and strong as they could be.
In other words, you're forcing people to buy shitty insurance that they can't afford. Why would anyone possibly object to that?
I think JA is pissed.
Every bit of this is Obama and Emanuel's Fault and what they were wishing to do from the very beginning... Obama has been screwing us behind closed doors , just as he has and is doing all of his other policies.. ...
Obama every since he has been elected , stands for NOTHING..
Obama is a complete phony and I am sorry that I cast a vote for someone which was this much of a fraud..
Obama and Emanuel stated right after taken office in January that they was going to move away from the left , move the party to the center , which had to be the the right of center because they have been on the right side of the center for the last 9 years..
Obama , Emanuel , blue dogs and the centrists have giving us nothing by BS and deceit...
Obama , Emanuel and the democrats are looking to have the people which do not have health insurance to be giving health insurance at the expense of the the other 90 percent of Americans.. Next the democrats will pass legislation making illegal immigrants ,,legal and will look for the 30 to 40 million new votes and the votes of their family which are already citizens..
This is what Emanuel did for Bill Clinton in 1993.. He started a program with the help of leadership for illegal citizens to legalize them in mass numbers.. They used football stadiums and other large structures to mass produce them into citizens to receive their votes in the 1996 election...
Obama , Emanuel and the democrats have now should they do not care anymore than the previous administration about our welfare...
It is all about historical photo opts , their reelections and their own wealth and control...
None
or is this the first time Pete2069 has let his Inner Lou Dobbs" out in the open?
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
I remember that now that he's mentioned it. Never gave it any thought back then but it was weird seeing these mass swearing ins of new Citizens.
Probably part of the NAFTA deal.
and racism, then you should STFU, Mr. Hadassah Lieberman doesn't work. Good to know what you're talking about before you criticize others.
Not only is the media attacking Howard Dean instead of Lieberman, But the White house and many Congressional democrats are attacking Dean.
This is how they plan on covering for Lieberman by blameing Howard Dean instead.
If it had not been for the support of the centrists in the general election Lieberman would not be the senator from Connecticut , it would have been the real democratic candidate Lamont...
If These so called democrat had not supported Lieberman in Lamont's run for senator we would not be having this problem today with Joe the a.. hole...
They should tell you with other statements which Obama , Emanuel and the centrists have been making that deep down the really dislike the progressive and are taking full control of the democratic party..
I will not vote , fund or support a d... one of them phonies..,, and I hope some democratic group can start a policy to recruit , fund and support a real democratic candidate for the 2010 and 2012 democratic elections...
None
"To pass a bill, you need sixty votes."
I didn't realize that the constitution had been changed to require 60 votes in the Senate to pass a bill.
I find it amazing how the pundits have turned the abusive obstructionist use of the filibuster into the new law of the land.
If Senate rules are being abused to tip the balance of power, then you find creative ways to use other Senate rules to bring the balance of power back. But oh no. . . now we must hear people like Chris Matthews and others lecture Howard Dean about how reconciliation for health care would be a HUGE abuse of Senate rules. . totally beyond the pale because it will "blow up" the Senate (which has already been blown up by the fillibuster.)
The United States Senate stopped being a branch of our democratic republic long ago. They are much more like an American "House of Lords", full of wealthy egotistical greedy elitist bastards who represent America's version of royalty. With few exceptions, Senators no longer feel the need to represent either "we the people" or their State - only their other rich-as-Crocus BFFs. The Senate is a veritable "Gentlemen's Club & C-Street Choir".
Not only does the US Constitution not require a 60 vote majority in the Senate in order to pass legislation, it established the Office of Vice President solely for the purpose of breaking tie votes in the Senate, hence the other title of President of the Senate.
The Senate needs to return to its Constitutional roots of 50 votes plus 1 equals a win, in each and every instance. The 60 vote requirement was a replacement for that tiresome ritual of filibustering by actually speaking from the floor of the Senate. Fuck that. If some Senator or group of Senators want to filibuster a bill, let them work for it on the Floor, stocked up with Adult Depends and Red Bull beverages for their vigil.
If Senators cannot stick to the US Constitution then "we the people" don't need them. We might just as well do away with Congress altogether and establish a unicameral parliament by direct voter election. At the same time, perhaps we should eliminate the Office of President, and have parliamentarian election of a Prime Minister. Our political system is so corrupt and broken that that might just be the proper solution.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
WH and Congress Dems defending Lieberman. Just like a Ho to defend her pimp.
NOBODY 2012
How can we let Howard Dean know we support him?? And thank him for standing up?!?!?!?
Is there an online petition or fund to donate to in Dean's honor?
You shouldn't criticize President Lieberman during wartime!
you had better be nice or he will raise your insurance rates and have you killed cause you can't pay for insurance so if you get sick, you die. This has the added benefit of killing off Democrats.
this bill must die. period.
We demand nothing less than full complete universal access to health care for all Americans, without respect to cost.
DEAN-GRAYSON 2012
your name's Lebowski, Lebowski... and your wife is Bunny
We are bitching on these web sites and it does not mount to a hill of beans...
The extremist tea baggers are should more ba..s than we do and they are doing it for a bunch of BS...
There are some that really believe the BS they heard. But , now the democrats are making their lies and threats come true with their deceit..
This has to be the worst group of so called democrats we have had in our history...
This has been the way we have been electing republicans in the democratic election...
This year Emanuel and the democrats will support Specter as a democratic candidate.. So if the republican candidate wins there will be a republican Senator and if Specter wins there will still be a blue dog republican Senator..
In 2006 the republican we elected on the democratic ticket in Virginia was Webb which is now a blue dog..
Now you see how over the years so called democrats like Emanuel has voted into the democrat party republican like the blue dogs and some centrists...
None
been a part of the filibuster. He will at least let it come to a vote and then vote no, knowing that with more than 50 votes it will pass. He is just covering his ass for the next election.
And Glenn Greenwald makes a good case of why it IS Obama's fault.
still now after all this will not see how Obama has a huge hand in how this sucks. Obama is attacking Howard Dean for crying at loud and using fear tactics now.
Sorry Obama the USA is much more at risk of going bankrupt with a lack of regulation and no tax increases then if this corporate welfare doesn't pass.
So discouraging. Everything's discouraging. Including leftwing bloggers, frankly, who are now all competing to tout how long ago they predicted this would all happen.
The GOP sucks. Teabaggers suck. Joe Lieberman sucks. Conservadems suck. Obama rolled the dice and, as of now, it seems, came up snake eyes.
And I've about had it up to here with digby and company who have apparently decided the only satisfaction to be had in all of this is to announce they saw it coming.
Gimme Wendell Potter and Rachel Maddow, and the rest of you can go ... ah, hell. Fuck it.
If Obama ever thought this was a "roll of the dice"....He must have thought they were loaded.
Fool.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
But Johnny you only conditionally show up when drop kicking Obama is vogue. You've been doing this since during the campaign.
But I do cite him for lack of effort.
It the House and Senates job to put this bill on the Prez's desk.
But He should have gotten out there and leaned on them.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I show up when there's an policy issue (or ridiculous right wing BS) to chat about.
And I do comment on other things besides the Hope Dog's big F-ups. Not interested in commenting on his dog or daughter's school choices nor the endless Glenn Beck romps here.
I voted for him. I'm a lefty. Plus I'm a policy guy. And I think you'd agree that this is big stuff.
Not really that surprising that I would be here now...is it?
Too tough on him? Not even.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
Read Glenn Greenwald famous post about Obama's role in the current mess that HCR as become.
It was written in August.
...many politicians weren't lying their fucking asses off.
The Democrats don't have the courage to admit that they never wanted Health Care Reform.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_kE0-uFodc
This is not about Lieberman being Lieberman but the lame Democratic "leadership" who allowed him to be in the position he's in.
That's like blaming the iceberg for sinking the Titanic.
Its pretty simple who is at fault.
Harry Reid. Rahm Emanuel and ever compromising, consensus building, Yes We Can man himself...
Obama.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
to go the reconciliation route, you have a leg to stand on.
Otherwise the lame Demoicratic leadership did not allow Lieberman to be in any position, the existing rules of the Senate on cloture did.
Stipped of power and seniority they still needed him or Snowe to be number 60. The voters of Connecticut are ultimately responsible for that. How that happened is history.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
That's right...When Obama took his biggest chip off the table right from the get go, this thing was over.
Medicare for all: Gone from day one. They could do reconciliation right now if the will and the pressure were there. Its all about how we fund this and reconciliation is a budgetary process. The "benefits" that Obama talks about being in this bad bill are there in Medicare right now.
Dean was right last night on Countdown: They've committed the United States to reform healthcare through the private sector."
How's that working out for us on Wall Street so far?
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
Instead he chose to listen to the Rahm Emanuels around him and call anything a victory and screw the dirty fucking hippie liberals. It's not Obama's fault but he contributed, absolutely.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
Obama "contributed"??? "...not Obama's fault"???
Uh, Ahem...He's the Pres-i-dent.
Where does the buck stop again?
Hmmmm.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
I pointed out he could have led but that's ALL a president can do when it comes to domestic affairs. Did you ever even take government or did you just fail it?
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
Save your venom for somebody else.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
...until his Obama erection subsides.
Yep. His election has so far turned out to have just ruined my erection.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
How about this then:
http://www.moronface.com/funny-pics/Sarah_Pal...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Thanks. I need a laugh. The last few days have been so shitty.
Venom? Really?
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TmZYPaXEMc
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I can't put all the blame on Obama. It can't be done.
He's not part of the Congress anymore.
This bill has to be put on his desk.
I fault him for not aggressively making deals to push this thru.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
He's trying so hard to avoid the Clinton "mistake" of having a final product to give to Congress to accept or decline, that it's becoming a Three Stooges as Cooks film.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
FUBAR!!
Kill this bill and go back to the drawing board. This bill has to be killed by the Progressive wing of the Democratic party. Their numbers against this bill have to be overwhelming.
Otherwise, the GOPers and Bluedogs will try to claim victory.
It has to be obvious to even the simplest minded GOPer, that they had nothing to do will killing this bill.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
Don't think that'll happen, Mud. There's a whole lot of CYA to be done.
Something has to pass.
Can't wait for the bill signing with Reid, Lieberman, Landreu and Pelosi getting their souvenir pens.
Nice.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
This will come to a vote before Xmas.
We'll see.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
I say we need to put the X back into Xmas
Anyone care to join me?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
That the House and The Senate are the ones who form and shape laws.
They are the ones who , after all the horse trading, come up with legislation. It's an art of compromise.
We all know this.
BUT, The President is supposed to ( how shall I say this) Lean on people. Obama, as much as I like this guy. Failed miserably on that point.
He needs to make the rounds and fight for the American people.
He has the Bully Pulpit. Start bullyin. for christ sake.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wpof8s5ZTg
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Obama persuaded 30 Democrat Senators to Ax the Drug-importation bill. He can be persuasive if he wants to be.
The most distressing part is that Obama's still talking this up like its "reform".
"In an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson, the president said he laid out for Congress specific things he wanted to see in the health care legislation -- including providing insurance for millions of uninsured and not driving up the deficit -- and that the current bill still has those benefits."
Wow. Now that is amazing.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
In this bill we've provided insurance for millions of Americans. . . by forcing them to buy it. . .
Is Joe Lieberman Protecting Israel? By Robert Parry.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/121509.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tzqxE0bcyI
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
As I understand it, 60 votes are needed to prevent a filibuster, and there aren't 60 votes in the Senate. So my question, why not risk a filibuster? I think a filibuster would hurt conservatives in the eyes of public more than liberals.
Let Lieberman and his allies filibuster health care. I bet that if they went to such lengths to deny health care to those who need it they would only degrade their reputation further, and diminish their ability to impeded a liberal agenda in the future.
casting I have seen. The only way this debacle ends back on those who caused it is to let them give voice to its death.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
with this suggestion - either filibuster or kill the bill
as a Democratic member of Congress you want the Republicans to get credit for its death. Lieberman has put the Democrats in the position of having to kill it, which, for an elected Democrat is almost as poisonous as having the bad things in the bill go into effect before the election. It is the ultimate treachery on Lieberman's part and it is being done to his colleagues in the Senate. Amazing they are not clever enough to recognize it.
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
This was a little-noticed change to the rules of the Senate.
All it takes is a threat of a filibuster. It is then incumbent upon the majority party to show that they have the 60 votes to override the filibuster, without making the minority party actually do the hard work of speaking on the Senate floor.
Without the 60 votes, the bill effectively dies without any actual filibuster on the part of the minority party.
Yes it was a change in the senate rule which allowed the complete destruction of the democratic process to be replaced by the tyranny of whatever minority feels like standing up on a given day.
It makes me crazy that people talk about needing 60 votes like it is written in the constitution or something.
or smarts to do this to Bush Co.?
I don't like it, just report it.
know what they are." It's all yours if you want it.
If the institutionalized filibuster and the 60 vote requirement was framed as a gross abuse of the Senate rules rather than just a simple, accepted, fact of life. . then it would be harder to frame reconciliation as some beyond the pale abuse that is so offensive to pundits. Right now in the public conversation. . the 60 vote requirement is the status quo and reconciliation is an abuse of the rules.
Split the damn bill into 2 parts. Let Leiberman and the others have their way with the reforms section to avoid their fillibuster and then pass the public option or medicare or whatever through reconciliation as a separate bill.
Does it abuse the rules? A bit. . but only to balance out the current abuse of rules that is pulling everything down.
and then pass medicare 55 through reconciliation. The Repubs used reconciliation and I didn't see the Senate break apart.
Health care costs are out of control. You have to have insurance to afford it, and insurance is becoming unaffordable.
This is actually bad for insurance companies in the long run. They don't actually provide any benefit or service, they are middlemen payment facilitators skimming profit out of the deal.
There's not enough profit for both health care and supporting the ever increasing need for profit demanded by Wall Street.
We cannot let the IRS be in charge of forcing people to buy insurance. The mandates will keep private insurance alive longer than it should be. They say they provide a real service; then prove it.
No one will be able to afford insurance in 10 years. We will all be desperately bargaining with individual providers. It will be ugly and many people will die unnecessarily, but it will take even longer if we pass an insurance mandate, b/c that will prop up these leeches by forcing people to be customers.
It shouldn't be criminal to be uninsured. We are not automobiles. It should be criminal to deny health care to a person in need.
This bill needs to die. It no longer has anything in it that helps anyone but the insurance companies to take more of our money and provide less. BCBS just threatened to drop anyone who misses a single payment...do they sound like people who should be providing health care? Or do they sound like a death panel?
"It shouldn't be criminal to be uninsured. We are not automobiles. It should be criminal to deny health care to a person in need."
Put this on a bumper sticker or t-shirt and send it to congress.
It would have to continue on to the next bumper
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
"why didn't David Axelrod secure Joe's vote on health-care before it got off the ground? It boggles the mind."
Secure his vote for what? You mean tell him "we will save your a plum chairmanship in the Senate, but in return, we will ask a favor
and when we do, you will grant our request." Considering him to be the weasel everyone here says he is, what makes anyone think he did not make noises to that effect himself and then renege?
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
to get what they wanted, and they did.
I'm sure he'll never see it, but here's a copy of a letter to I sent to Harry Reid. I needed to vent some frustration.
Dear Senator Reid,
I am glad to see that the Democratic Party has finally come to its senses and made Joe Lieberman the Majority Leader of the Senate. Maybe now the Democratic Senators can stop wasting their time trying to fulfill the pledges they made during the last election.
I don't know why we didn't do this earlier. With Lieberman in charge there’ll be no need to worry about those of us who can’t afford to buy health insurance; you can just force us to buy increasingly more expensive, high overhead insurance from the private sector. After all, those poor insurance company executive need their million dollar bonuses.
There’ll be no need to worry about us poor losing everything we have because of an unexpected illness or injury; why worry about the middle and lower classes when the Democratic Senators can live out the American Dream and only have to worry about the top 1%.
Finally making Lieberman the Majority Leader makes perfect sense. But why stop there, lets just appoint him to the Presidency. Isn’t that what elections are about; ignoring what the public voted for and doing what one person decides is best – for him.
It’s time to do the right thing Senator Reid – give us real healthcare reform with either a strong public option or a Medicare buy-in. Do whatever it takes. Do it for us, the American People, not Joe Lieberman. He doesn’t need fifty more pieces of silver.
Sincerely,
WRG
PS: Without true reform, I and a lot of my fellow Democrats will be sitting the next election out. Why bother to vote if it doesn’t make any difference.
I remember Obama saying it was wrong to force people to buy insurance they can't afford.
The Senate is so corrupt they want a commission to tell them what do do about the deficit.
The House can govern, the Senate is too corrupt.
in light of what Glenn Greenwald has provided to substantiate his position, this blog post seems naive
a meteorite could hit D.C. and leave it twisted smoking wreckage and I wouldn't even care.
We'd be better off in the long run.
Let the Martians take care of em.
"I can't keep doing this on my own with these...people."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtXnLtOHiTk
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
we could just go back to an actual majority and actually try to watch 80 year old men filibuster.
Nah, let's act like we HAVE to have 60.
What a f'ing joke our country and media is.
Joe maybe a douche bag, but our Dem senators are bigger Douches for not putting it up for a vote when they supposedly have 59.
I'm so tired of this shi$
Come on C&L take the lead to get back to an actual majority vote! NOt this 60 crap! PLEASE!!!!!!
would be appropriate
Correct. There aren't 40 GOP Senators but one large multicellular fungus with 40 votes.
Special Comment.
Note: at the end he suggests scrapping the entire bill and passing Medicare For All through reconciliation.
Olbermann: Ruined Senate Health Bill Unsupportable
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
there is nothing in the constitution that gives the federal government the right to require anyone to pay a for-profit corporation money for any purpose.
"The govt requires you buy car insurance. It can require you buy health insurance."
So spoke our President.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
Obama has stayed out of the healthcare process—publicly, at least—to the point of negligence. The only good result is that it leaves him in the position now to ride in on his white horse and save the day. He can come address the nation and say that the private insurance approach was beyond the capabilities of Congress; therefore we should go with the tried-and-true, made-in-America solution: Medicare.
And here I thought it be kissing the boo boo.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
MediCare For All !!
Passed by Reconciliation!!
Screw the 60 vote rule !!
All we need is 51 !
(.. can we find 51 votes? pls?)
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
It AIN'T gonna happen...
and financial institutions (first act in office) and says . . the American People now own a piece of these bailed out entities . . well good then sell my share of the firms and I'll set up my own health care nest egg with the cash you wire into my account asshole!
We have been sold down the river, by the people who are suppose to be representing us. The senate has sold their soul to the devil. We no longer count for anything. Vote them out of office and replace them with people are willing to listen to us. Lieberman should have been told to vote with the Dems or loose his chairmanship. Instead they are kissing his ass.
When is the welfare going to stop for the insurance companies? I remember when Reagan talked about the welfare queen driving a Cadallic. Will the insurance welfare queen/king is now flying around the country in a private jet and living in million/billion dollars homes. Not just one home but anywhere from 2 to 7. And getting pay and bonuses of million/billions of dollars.
I would like to know what happened to the Dems backbone. Roosevelt was not afraid of the republicans he stood up to them to get passed what was needed at that time. What we need is people with some backbone to get this country back on track.
Are the Dems afraid of the Christians who are against abortion? Why are the Christians telling them how to vote? As soon as the Christians are against something the Dems back down and start crawling into their hole.
People are dying because of no insurance and no one seems to care in congress.
do know this much. The religious faction is important to the GOP because without them, they are much, much smaller. Too small to do anything if elections are real. Think about it this way: If only the 1% to 5% of the people in this country that own the majority of the wealth were to vote GOP, they would never win anything. They absolutely have to have the Fundies/Catholics on their side, at least until the SCOTUS decision comes down allowing the corporations to limitlessly contribute to political campaigns. That's due any day, now.
Another sad but true fact: The Dems are corrupt, too. They wanted onto the gravy train of corporate bribes, and they got on board. Elections are so easily fixed now, the mere idea of voting is a joke. Maybe it's a joke that not everyone gets at the moment, but they soon will get it.
Republicans are not acting in good faith.
No capitulation
No conceding
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
The case he makes is a clusterfuck of excuses that deflect the blame from where it ought to be assigned. Glennzilla is the one who got it nailed down correctly. The Senate bill is the kind Obama was looking for and got.
I have heard, (heard mind you) that Joe is not planning on running for re election. That he will retire and plans to move to Isreal.
It is a rumor that someone could clarify with facts. What a great country we are that would allow Joe to do this and then leave the country to retire in another country with all the lobbyust money he could transfer to an Isreali bank.
There is a guy named Ned Lemont out htere somewhere and I miss him.
Look, it's time to stop simply saying "we need sixty votes to pass anything." You need 60 votes to stop a filibuster, but after you do that, you don't need sixty votes--just a majority. The threat, the MERE THREAT, of a filibuster has eroded all the meat off the Health Reform legislation as the Senate leadership caves in to guys like Lieberman. I say it is time for the Dems to say to Joe, "Suit up and get a package of lozenges--we are calling your bluff and saying go ahead and filibuster." What's the worst that could happen? He would eventually collapse and have to be carted out of the Senate? Big deal.
I think it helps the Senate understand itself when someone actually has to go through with the filibuster threat. It should happen every ten years or so. Colleagues get to stand around and see it happen and judge for themselves how serious they are with flinging that threat around. It might make them see the value of bargaining and negotiating in good faith on important issues in conflict. It would give the public a real sideshow on what preening, posturing hacks these guys are.
Don't pull a gun if you are not ready to fire it. That's good sense.
The person who defines Reality wins.
n/t
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
Why the F*** is this DB still RELEVANT??
Why OH WHY????
Because of President Obama.
Which means he is right there doing what the President wants.
We were sold a bill of goods, and rahm sterred the President right into the safety of corporate hands.
We got PUNK'D!
Helllloooo....you don't NEED Joe's vote. Let him fillbuster. Let the GOP fillibuster. LET THEM.
This bill WITH either single payer or public option should have been brought to the floor, but scrotumless Harry Reid wouldn't do it.
Why? Because ALL parties...the Dems, the GOP, EVERYONE is in bed with the insurance company. This race to the bottom is to secure the lion share of donations from Big Pharm and health ins companies for the next election.
The politiicans are not interested in what the public wants. The polls don't count. Only money does.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
Not only is he everything wrong with Congress, a disservice to his country and constituents but, the MSM televises this douchebag and then two vids in a row show on C&L.. Not only are you preaching to the choir but I'd prefer to see this guy only one more time as post-host of a state funeral.. Die Joe Douchebag, DIE! Choke a those lemons you're eating Douchey, anything! This guy is fleet enema backwash, we all know he's lower than a leach field, please stop exposing this filth, at least on video; even a photograph is too much!
When I voted for Obama in 2008, I took it as a matter of faith and fact that a former Professor of Constitutional Law would, upon taking his oath of office, actually support the rule of law and redress the multitude of grievances against the misadministration of the Dubya regime. Instead, I find that I have helped to elect a new President who has no more interest in the rule of law or of upholding the interests of "we the people" than his predecessor.
Eleven months into the Obama administration, it is now abundantly clear that instead of electing one who honors the US Constitution, we have placed yet another viper into the lap of Liberty, who uses his Constitutional knowledge to further corrupt those ideals, to enhance his and his cronies wealth and power. Business as usual is not what i voted for - I voted for change, including major changes from the Dubya regime. The longer those same policies persist, the more frustrated and disenchanted I become at all things Democratic.
Whatever short-term, and largely ephemeral, gains that the Corporatist Democrats that now control the Democratic Party accrue, they risk, nay guarantee, the loss of the Democratic Party's liberal populist base; Just as we are seeing the self-destructive nature of the purification of the Republican Party, we are seeing the very same nature in the Democratic Party. The entire gamut of Third Parties are waiting in the wings for the opportunity to gain electoral power.
A welcome intervention, as far as I am concerned ...
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
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