HOUSE voting on Federal Loans to Auto Makers: Open Thread: It Passes
By John Amato Wednesday Dec 10, 2008 5:45pmThe HOUSE is voting right now on the Auto bill...
UPDATE: It just passed 237-170...
Matt has an interesting article on the snakey games Republicans play with procedures to muck things up. It's called "Motion to Recommit, and it's not about marriage.
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To bust the unions.
While I'm an independent, I see the unions as serving a critical part of society. Decent wages, Health Care Ins, Job safety, Payed sick days,
Vacation pay and severance pay. I'm sure I missed a few but I think that covers it.
Unions help out the average working class person.
Without them, average people would still be working in sweat shops and the like.
And that's just the way the GOP wants it.
Oh yeah, Frist!
Bailout-R-us and now this. Fricken amazing! the FED is trying to elf'n magic more money out of thin air but this time outside the existing currency. Might as well the private company (yes the FED is a private company) the keys to the U.S. treasury, there you go boys print all you want.
One hurdle, however, is that the Federal Reserve Act doesn’t explicitly permit the Fed to issue notes beyond currency....yet.
WSJ - Fed Weighs Debt Sales of Its Own
Move Presents Challenges: 'Very Close Cousins to Existing Treasury Bills'
The Federal Reserve is considering issuing its own debt for the first time, a move that would give the central bank additional flexibility as it tries to stabilize rocky financial markets.
Government debt issuance is largely the province of the Treasury Department, and the Fed already can print as much money as it wants. But as the credit crisis drags on and the economy suffers from recession, Fed officials are looking broadly for new financial tools.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228880217578...
Repub seators demint, shelby, kyl, etc are admitting that it is about busting the unions. they want to create a new economy without unions. this agenda has got to be stopped. the bonuses and exorbitant wages for management are unregulated, but they want to tie the hands of the laborers. these repubs need to be stamped out.
1. They rolled back Environmental Laws
2. Bankrupt the treasury
3. Move $ trillions from the private sector to the corporate/financial sector (read:to the rich)
---to assure the end of most government programs (and, get more rich)
4. Leave the world a more dangerous place
and last...
5. ...and what the hell, break the backs of the unions.
It just passed the house!
In return for bailout givebacks, UAW may seek seat on GM board
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/...
Would solve a lot of problems.
Think about it for a second.
What's the population of the US? Something like 340 mill?
Now, if people payed, say 10 dollars a week that would come out to
480 dollars a year. Times that by ,say, 200 million.
I' don't see why this can't work.
ooppss, better make that 520. Yikes!
Since you wouldn't buy our crappy cars, we will take your money anyways.
Mathematics wasn't my strongest suit.
But I think you guys get the picture.
Besides, who works 52 weeks out of the year?
Maybe they need to see this chart to get the "big picture" regarding the magnitude of the theft we just witnessed:
http://voltagecreative.com/blog/wp-content/up...
Tell me again, why isn't Wallstreet in flames and heds of CEOs rolling down the stock exchange's steps?
Has the latest number at $8.5 Trillion committed by the Treasure and Federal Reserve.
You can double the chart on the right by putting in the cost of WWII and the chart on the left will be larger and still be all red.
I have said before in a previous comment, they are paying Credit Default Swaps out at face value. CDS is what has incinerated the investment banks.
One very credible expert has said that it will be somewhere around $20 Trillion before they clear out the liability.
Here Bloomberg reports that Financial Services have so far written down some $980 Billion in losses. That is what we have been bailing out so far.
Bloomberg also reports that this is roughly half of what is expected.
The CDS liability has been about ten to one. If they actually commit $20 Trillion we will make Zimbabwe look like an economic picnic.
We may even do that with $8.5 Trillion.
The Crooks on Wall Street should not be receiving our money, they should be receiving subpoenas!
What I don't understand is why the government doesn't simply void the credit swaps. It is money that never existed anyways. And why aren't the people responsible for what pretty much tantamount to fraud (selling nonexistent goods) in jail?
What it is clear to me, is that the Wallstreet elites are willing to take all of us with them if it means they get to do some "compromising" themselves. They are fixated with money/wealth that never existed as somehow being entitled to them.
I am willing to think that if the credit swaps and some of the other smoke and mirror tools were voided, the average person and those sane financial institutions won't feel much of a recession. The crooks who made the swaps and all the credit packages would lose a chunk of serious "non-existent" cash, but we are talking a few hundred of people tops who are the real beneficiaries of that wealth. It is time to start looking for the common good, and when you compare a few hundred vs. 300 million people, you need some serious decimal places to get their relevance.
F*ck'em...
A Bankruptcy Judge in the case of Lehmann Brothers, allowed some Swaps to be payed at pennies on the dollar and tore some others up.
That is the one person who has the authority to tear up contracts, which are what Swaps are. The Reptiles would love to see GM in bankruptcy court with a Judge tearing up UAW contracts. No one else has that authority, a Swap owner would sue and win. They were illegal for most of the Twentieth Century as being nothing more than bets with a Bookie, but our illustrious Congress turned back the clock on Dec 15, 2000.
If they had let the banks go bankrupt, there would have been plenty of pain to go around, but the situation is going to be way worse bailing them out.
What has never been answered is, to my knowledge, did inside traders buy those swaps in the first place. In other words, people who knew a given mortgage backed security would implode and stood to gain enormously betting against it.
That would be racketeering, IMHO, I'd bet dollars to donuts there was a lot of that going on.
The whole Wall Street Episode is one HUGE PAYOFF.
The Bush Obama Machiavelli Bailout.
The BOMB for short.
Why did they let Lehmann go bankrupt when they were bailing everyone else out?
The report is Venezuela had a lot of money tied up in Lehmann and Bush wanted to poke Hugo Chavez in the eye. So they let them go. The Wordwide credit markets froze immediately after that.
That is when they came for the BOMB.
the same way that congress gaveth, they can taketh away.
All we need is an administration with the ball to ram through congress a legislation making these swaps illegal, and voila.
I know, this would piss off significantly a few number of very connected people. And I am sure as f*ck no administration would dare piss them off, but I can only dream.
It is just annoying that we are heading down the crapper based on "imaginary" money that never existed to begin with. It is like committing suicide by placebo.
Tyler: "It is just annoying that we are heading down the crapper based on "imaginary" money that never existed to begin with. It is like committing suicide by placebo."
That was f-in 2 funny :-) Outstanding!!!
1913
I don't know who you are but you are by far my favorite poster. I regularly save your posts to send and read to anyone and everyone I can get to listen and understand.
Thank you.
I am just a little person offering an opinion.
And whatever insight I can glean from this monstrous pile of crap we see coming down the mountain.
It may crush us all.
How many licensed drivers in the US? Give them $25 billion with the stipulation they buy a corvette.
This thought has been rattling around in my head for a few days now.
If they are going to use tax payers money to fund this bailout.
How much are we going to be able to write off in our taxes this year?
If this does end up being pushed to next year, the same question applies. Only 2009 taxes.
The $15 Billion for automakers is less than the pocket change for the Wall Street Fat Cats.
Seriously, their bonuses are much more than the $15 Billion.
The so called taxpayer protections added in the $700 Billion
BailoutHeist were a complete joke.It is a total insult to the American People. Too bad most of them don't know it.
As we discussed earlier, we paid for the new deal, we fought WWII, rebuilt Europe, and went to the moon all for less money than the Wallstreet bailout.
I really don't think the average American understands the magnitude of the figures.
It is criminal that the press has kept such a low key on this.
Naturally it's criminal. The press is run by criminals and owned by so very few.
The critics say that "Citizen Kane" was the best movie of the twentieth century. I agree.
Whoa! What the fuck say yea, now? Oh Reaganites, Newtie and Michael Powell?
Deregulation was this country's ruination. Murdoch v. Hearst?
I can't imagine what kind of movie Orson Welles would make today.
Echo
echo
echo
Maybe we all need to start asking our senators and congressman to take a pay cut of 2%. They get a lot of freebees. They are asking our citizens to make scarifics. How about them.
They attached some pay raises to the bill, too.
Big 3 Unions being paid to fail.
Big 3 Execs being paid to fail.
Big 3 Shareholders being paid to fail.
Too many shitty cars.
The Republicans can kill it in the Senate, though.
Yes those southern senators are going to do that. But its funny that those senators that want to do that are states that have foreign car companies. You betcha they want to bust the unions. I never belonged to a union. Unions are the backbone of the middle class for years and years.
If the Big 3 are failing in the US because of private healthcare costs, why are they also failing in nations WITH universal healthcare, like Canada?
If the Big 3 bail out is really union busting in disguise, does that mean that the bail outs in every other nation are intended to do the same thing? Apparently Canada is being asked for billions as well, and the government is using the same debate tactics as the US.
Actually it is the denial of the bailout that is tied with union busting.
Denying bankrupt businesses taxpayer money is union busting? I would say that is a stretch.
Car companies across the world are having problems and their country are bailing them out. The US gives tax breaks to foreign car companies.
True. And foreign countries give tax breaks to US owned businesses. Case in point. Canada.
1 in 10 jobs are tied to the auto industry. the republicans want the auto industry to fail so they can tie a worsening economy around the democrats neck in 2010 and 2012. that's how much they love amerika.
237-170. my my my, just how mant of the NO votes are Repugs. When it comes to Unions vs white collor, the dems go with the workers, the repugs go with there donners. These assholes in the senate who blaim all the issues of Quality on the UNIONS are just full of shit. The union can not set the quality standards for the cars and trucks, the companie sets the standards. Take Iacokea( how ever you spell his name) this asshole got help from nixon to NOT put shoulder seat belts in back seats,knowing this would cut down on people getting fucked up with only the lap seat belts.It would be cheaper for them if they only had to put in lap belts. But it was the UNIONS falt.
Why did it only take ONE weekend for the assholes to give AIG, Citi,(who lost billions, and MAKE NOTHING) and other white collor companies billions of dollars and they have been bitching to the Auto companies for weeks.
One thing about the Auto companies, there Quality sucks and has sucked for years. This is not a union issue. The union did not set the standards for bulding autos, the CEO's did. They have made cars and trucks cheaper and cheaper and charged more and more. I can rember when a cat or truck was made out of metal. Now they are made out of plastic and charge as if they were made out of metal.They put a lock on the gas cap, but they make the door handels out of plastic. You buy a part to fix your car and pay out the ass for it. You take your car in for service and the dealershit wants $65an hr( I here its at $85 an hr now) just for labot, parts are more, and the shop in not union. Its NOT the UNIONS that put the Auto makers in the fix there in, IT IS THE CEO's WHO WERE RUNNING THE AUTO MAKERS GETTING THERE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. To the people who want to blaim every thing on UNIONS, what happen to toyta in Tx,(non union) they were bulding shit trucks in there plant and ended up with a rather large recall.
What the Repugs want is what the CEO's want. a work force that under there control, its called "EMPLOYES AT WILL" no rights,kiss my ass or you are fired.
I just read on Huffblog that hiding in the bill to help the big 3 are pay raises for judges. The congress askes the big 3 to make sacrifics but they will give a raise to the judges. Am mad as hell and I wrote Reid to let him know my displeasure. These people in congress and the senate should be taking a 2% scarific for the country. People in the country are hurting badly. I am pissed that the southern senators want to cut the balls off the big 3. Corker who is from my state (I didn't vote for him) want them to make union changes. All those bastards are doing is union busting and the red necks in the south don't care.
I hope this Bill will get implemented as soon as possible. Great news for everyone.
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