Liberal Blogs victorious in defeating a John Brennan nomination
By John Amato Wednesday Nov 26, 2008 6:43am(The above video is John Conyers grilling John Yoo about torture.Just another day in the life of George Bush.)
Whenever you see pieces like this, you know just the opposite is the truth. There is tremendous power in the words and views that we write about.
Brennan wrote in a Nov. 25 letter to Obama that he did not want to be a distraction. His potential appointment as CIA director has raised a firestorm in liberal blogs that associate him with the Bush administration's interrogation, detention and rendition policies.
Brennan, a 25-year CIA veteran, helped establish the National Counterterrorism Center and was its first director in 2004. He has privately and publicly said that he opposed waterboarding and questioned other interrogation methods that many in the CIA feared could be later deemed illegal.
"It has been immaterial to the critics that I have been a strong opponent of many of the policies of the Bush administration such as the pre-emptive war in Iraq and coercive interrogation tactics, to include waterboarding," he wrote. "It is with profound regret that I respectfully ask that my name be withdrawn from consideration for a position within the intelligence community. The challenges ahead of our nation are too daunting, and the role of the CIA too critical, for there to be any distraction from the vital work that lays ahead," Brennan wrote.
Especially on torture. Because of George Bush, America's legacy has been tarnished forever. Torture is never an option and the news about Brennan bowing out just makes a strong statement against it.
As Digby says:
Torture is not negotiable and it can't be redefined or "smoothed out" or anything else. This one is a bright line. I give Obama the benefit of the doubt at this point, of course --- nothing's been announced. But I'm nervous. The institutional pressure is going to be acute and I'm not reassured by the presence of people like John Brennan. The fact that he isn't as bad as Dick Cheney just isn't good enough.
John Woo should be tried an convicted along with any Bush loyalist that sanctioned these practices.
Cassel: If the president deems that he's got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person's child, there is no law that can stop him?Yoo: No treaty...
Cassel: Also no law by Congress -- that is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo...
Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.
In the same interview, Brennan even defended -- or at least justified -- Michael Mukasey's refusal to say whether waterboarding was "torture," on the ground that by doing so, Mukasey would be admitting that the President broke the law (as though that is a valid reason for a prospective Attorney General to refuse to opine on a legal matter)
Scott Horton has an excellent piece up about it when his name was being mentioned.
John Brennan may find an important role serving in a new administration. But he is morally unfit to serve as the Director of Central Intelligence.
And we all know the role FOX played in the use of torture.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ5LaSPThfc
Investigate and prosecute those people, starting from the top down, who brought about this abominable program of torture.
Mr Obama, fail to do so and your name goes down in history alongside theirs.
I've said this before...
We need to take the whole crew and send them to The Hague, have them convicted and then sent back to the US for sentencing. We then build glass cages right in front of the Washington monument, and place them all in those cages until they die.
There would also be a new national holiday called Despot Day. Children from all over the country would be put in busses and marched in front of these evil doers and told "this is what happens when you turn you back on the constitution."
none of this is going to happen. No one will be sent to the Hague. No one of any importance will be tried. A significant percentage of the American people agree with Yoo and co.
President Obama will have limited political capital and many, many things to spend that capital on - reversing the damage that the present administration has done to America's international relations, undoing the damage done to the Constitution, removing illegal political appointments from the DoJ and other important government agencies, enacting policies to minimize the impact of the recession ...
Depending on the political gains to be made, perhaps the incoming administration should conduct some investigations and prosecute a couple of scapegoats. Yoo might be a fine choice for this.
they can be informed that it is not acceptable.
I know that some of John Woo's efforts at directing films in the United States have left a lot to be desired but don't you think that course of action is a little extreme?
(*I'm guessing that sentence should have read "John Yoo".).
I am just disgusted that Yoo is on the staff at U.C. Berkley, which is one of my favorite places on earth. It's just disgusting.
It is disgusting that *any* university--beyond Regent or Liberty or Bob Jones--would offer a war criminal a faculty position.
Free thought in academia is one thing. Torture is another.
Unfortunately, even if Yoo were tried and convicted in a court of law, he wouldn't recognize the court's findings because he believes the circumstances put him--and the bush administration--above it.
I'm amazed he hasn't been pied on campus yet.
...most of the past decade has been sheer torture! Time for a 180 degree turn.
Its not the torture that I find so disgusting(I do), it is the zeal that so many in the Bush admin went about it. From Yoo and his legal acrobatics to the psycologists and their moral merry-go-round to the toturers themselves and the new ways of toture they come up with, is how gladly they went about it. It became the patriotic thing to do, torture in the name of the Constituion, and these people did it with a vigor that I haven't seen since I was forced to go to Elmer Gantry church service in TX. The fact that many of the people involved in the toture come from parents, or grandparents, of people that left their home countries to get away from govts that would do this same things in the name of state security, is stunning in its irony.
every single person in Bush's administration, starting with Bush, should undergo all those "intensive interrogation techniques" used against the detainees and then try to wiggle out of answering direct questions about what they authorized and "why", while claiming that torture is not torture, but torture produces reliable information.
This is America's shame and we can never hold up our heads until the Bush administration criminals suffer the consequences of their actions.
We cant do to them what they did to others, else we become them.
No swans in the sewers
Rationalization counts. They do it for 'justice' which makes a mockery of justice and cheapens our entire country and makes them traitors to the ideals that stand for America. If we did it to them it would be pure revenge and that just makes us assholes.
but apparently they aren't losing any sleep over what they've done, and they encourage others to be conscienceless, too.
I'm not sure this is always true. Long ago, maybe 35 years ago, I knew a loving family man whose little girl (6 years old) was raped by a neighborhood teenager. This was before anybody ever brought lawsuits about child rape with all the accompanying publicity. She told her mother what had happened, and he went out one night without telling anyone where he went or why. The next day that teenager had two black eyes and a broken arm, but still the father said nothing. But the family knew he'd punished that boy.
Sometimes, there's no justice except what people themselves exact. Things are different today when it comes to violence against children, but not then. The father may have struggled with his conscience about what he did, but he did not become any less good or loving.
Life sentences for torturer authorizers without parole if you don't believe in the death penalty?
Tortue in any form does not work, did that kid ever rape agian, did the father ever think afterwards that there might have been another way? I cant say that I would not have strangled the kid with my bare hands if it was my kid but I would like to think that I would have found another way to get justice for my child. I just find that violence just leads to more violence and yes we can all come up with examples where it does work in the short term, just not in the long term.
Yes, they should all do life terms if found guilty of torture b/c like torture, the death penalty doesn't work to promote safety only to exact revenge.
My "attitude" about the Bush administration authorizers of torture rises from the appearance that thay'll all get off scot-free with just a wrist-slap. That really offends my 69 year-old sense of justice and belief that we must live in a safe world that has serious consequences for unprovoked violence against innocents by either individuals or the government.
If Congress were not so wimpy about dealing with the Bush administration war-crimes, I wouldn't have such thoughts. But as long as there are no consequences, America is not a safe place in the minds of many of us.
=====
I don't know if that boy raped again, but it's quite probable that if he'd suffered no consequences at all, he surely would. And the father apparently took responsibility for what he'd done -- he waited several weeks, apparently checking out the boy's reputation (he was a bully) -- and didn't seem to regret what he'd done. If he did, he didn't tell anyone or indicate it in any other way.
I hope that you are wrong, but somehow they will get away with it and that will even be worse than the toture they did. I can only hope that as the info trickles out that the Obama admin will have no political choice but to put them in jail since congress doesn't have the guts. I see that most people just want the Bush admin to go away, to steal a quote "Our long national nightmare is over.", and that they want to forget that it ever happened along with all the evil that they did in our name. The Hauge will never happen and if it did, I would expect unicorns to burst out of dick's ass and do the hokey-pokey. The trial of an ex-prez would be a suicide pact for the dems and the right will play the victim(oh the irony of that). The only way to get the truth is to start giving out immunity to the major players, or else they will keep their mouth shut for fear of jail, and hope that the truth will come out; of this I am highly dubious, to trust people that lied to the people in the first place, just means that they will lie once more. There are no good options on this and the bush admin knows it and thats why they will leave power with a smile on their face, knowing that NOTHING will come of their crimes.
I understand that doing nothing to the kid is worse than beating him up, but then peer preasure is also a mighty thing. To let EVERYBODY in town know that he is a child rapists might not have felt as good, but it might have done more to stop him and those like him. Think of the way that the SNAP people have taken on the Catholic church, along with the lawsuits and the jail time that have done some major damage, they have succeded in making the term Catholic priest=child molester. Which of those things do you think the pope stays up late at night worrying about, the lawsuits or the stigma that the church is led by child molesters?
That being anti-torture is a far left position in America. Way to go Bush.
Why was Brennan considered AT ALL? Regretfully withdraw indeed. Damn straight he'd better withdraw. Why these other appointments dragged up by the hair from the shithole of the past?!:
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20081125_...
Obama's "new" appointments are like kissing an old uncle with nicotine in his nostrils.
After 8 years of living hell we SHOULD NOT have to fight Obama's goddamn appointments!
Brought to us via the Republican Party. I'd love to punch both those fuckers in the face.
is truly one of the most disgraceful legacies of the past eight years, IMHO.
Only Traitors Torture
That's what my sign reads at the weekly vigil. We were there again last night , same as the last 275+ weeks. We were out on Christmas last year. I'd like all the troops home by Christmas so I can have my Tuesday evenings back. Leave Blackwater (sewage) to fend for themselves after we cut off all funding for outside contractors.
Considering a new sign " After your support for the MURDER of over a million Iraqis I don't wish you a Merry anything"
Robert Bly had something to say about the fact that Americans never mourn the people they kill in other countries which makes us a country of sick fucks. Blame it on the isolated land mass where nobody comes to give back what we so generously bestow on them.
Few of us however are given to the merriness of conspicuous consumption of the holidays passing for human fulfillment.
OF HIS OWN DESIGN.
He lied to the nation and put his loyalty to the Bush administration ahead of his loyalty to the nation. That's bad.
He's an nice man who is an old school republican much the same as Tip O'Neill was an old school democrat.
It was clear he found himself in peculiar company after the fact and he was faltering in what he was asked to do. He was torn between the loyalty of office and serving "at the Pleasure" of the president and a growing desire to escape out the bathroom window.
He seemed increasingly confused about the company he found himself dealing with.
Whether or not I found myself agreeing with him, especially his unquestioning of contracted soldiers like Blackwater as a business-as-usual type of solution. Powell woke up just a little too late.
I give him a certain well-intentioned ignorance toward dogma rather than intentional soul level evil.
No excuses, but he's capable of learning from his mistakes unlike the company he was keeping.
The Bush administration kept him completely out of the information loop and used him to sell the invasion of Iraq on the basis of lies. Apparently he had some strong reservations about the information he was asked to feed the UN and asked for its verification. They gave the same duped up information to him and he didn't have much choice about what he was going to tell the UN. I read that after he'd done it and learned that the information he'd based his reputation on was false, he cursed and was furious.
They never considered him to be a team player. That's probably because he didn't buy their game.
He bought it enough to sell it to the UNSC. He lied. He knew that it was a lie. There were people who said it was a lie (the intel agency people).
Powell willingly sold it - along with his soul and his reputation.
That he might have any spot in the Obama administration makes me physically ill.
I got the impression from a couple of pieces I read that Powell was AFRAID the information was a lie, since he asked for verification of what he was told to say. His failure was to go ahead and make that presentation without the verification he sought, proof that there were WMDs and production facilities, etc.
I think he would have been fired on the spot if he'd refused to speak to the UN, but later he was fired anyway, so he should have kept his honor and reputation intact.
I probably don't have as many negative impressions of Powell as you do about that UN presentation (though he was criminally compliant in the My Lai coverup), but I just don't think he would be effective in Obama's administration. There are many stronger and better people to choose from.
he had a modicum of integrity he would have been fired and spoken out.
How many people have died and become horribly injured and disfigured, their lives never to be the same because of him? How many people suffer from PTSD and will wind up violent on our streets because of him? Employers are now looking to NOT hire vets because so many are unstable.
This all rests on his shoulders, forever and ever.
It's that last point you make that appears Obama is sharing the latrine with "One Too Many" fucking republicans. So far, every appointment is either a republican or a bluedog, finer points about Powell notwithstanding.
what liberal blogs should be doing.
obama was being advised by brennan, and could have possible offered him the CIA director position. yet, due to pressure from the left this thug is no longer in the running.
the left made itself heard, and--in this one instance--helped cause a change for the better.
those that hold feet to the fire: *clap, clap, clap*
This morning Obama responded to questions about these freakish appointments. He's saying he needs "experienced" personnel and that he would be making the final decisions.
Fine, fine fine. But since he's always talking about Balance, where are the progressive appointees? Why isn't he including them to consult with?
IS he consulting with progressives?
We're all trying to keep an open mind and the proof will be in the results we get. But he DOES need to have closest to him those who wish social reform and an end to "dumb wars". WHERE ARE THEY???
Between now and Inauguration day, had better include some responses from Obama that leave nothing out about this plausability gap.
We know about reaching across the aisle is different from spending all of his time in the company across the aisle. This morning's answer from Obama was an inadequate if not dismissive response. He's sure as shit got to earn our trust through his actions. So far it appears he's given himself over to the worst old administrations have to offer. ZERO to the reason we voted for him and entrusted him.
Someone convince me otherwise.
...everyone in this administration - from top to bottom - held accountable for their dastardly deeds. Not gonna' happen.
After the next couple of financial meltdowns and bank failures in the few weeks just before they leave office (and probably the country), we'll all be in such a tizzy trying to stave off the next great global depression, no one will notice them skulking out the back door.
I think we'll have to depend on Karma for our retribution....
Inaction has karma usually even more intense than standing around waiting for the ones who deserve it to get theirs. Something we fatally overlook.
Prosecuting Yoo is rather like prosecuting the plumber -- called to fix an overloaded sewer system -- because the pipes broke. Yoo is a tool. Why not think about Chaney, Rumsfeld, Bush and the policy makers who established the policies?
One at a time. Yoo is a chilling personality so pure to type it's as if he was scripted in a grainy old Peter Lorre film from the early '40's.
Knowing we're all caricatures of ourselves this pitch-ugly Yoo should get an award.
is that Yoo continues to teach young people at UC. That is a disgrace.
I wrote them and got a response including some tripe about allowing different people to have different views.
This isn't a view. This is the author of a criminal offense which our country then rolled with. This isn't a theory, it was put into practice. This is a crime against humanity.
UC should lose any stature it once had for keeping him. It has in my mind and I now strongly recommend that anyone who is looking at UC looks elsewhere. If they want to pay a criminal, fine. But not to teach our kids.
I have a problem with Yoo receiving the honor and status that goes with being on the staff at Boalt Hall (UC Berkeley Law School), but to characterize law students as "children." Get real.
YOUNG people. And not so young people.
What I was trying to get to was shaping minds...young or old, it doesn't matter.
You could bring a member of the KKK up for professorship (if any of them have education beyond 6th grade).
If your comparison of Yoo is accurate, then it must also be said that Yoo is a tool that loves how he is used, and what he is used for. When a tool is used to commit murder the justice system doesn't then allow that same tool to be used again in any way or by any one. Yoo needs to be imprisoned for life for his war crimes.
John Yoo was more than happy to do whatever those above him in the Bush administration asked him to do. Yoo is the type who would wipe his bloody boots of the Constitution as if it were a door mat, while wrapping himself in the flag. Yoo is a nationalist who believes solely in the symbols of America, while at the same time having disbelief in and hatred for the substance and ideals that gave birth to America. Because of Yoo and people like him, the symbols of America are seen the same as those in existence of any other murderous and violent government by it's victims.
Let's take a look at what Yoo did. He wrote a legal memo. While I totally disagree with the premise of his memo, I don't see what all this venom is directed at Yoo and Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the others who constructed and implemented the policies in question seem to have fallen off the radar screen.
and you'll agree he's dangerous and cooly impervious if not immune to the suffering he's so willing to inflict on others.
He has one of those legal minds without the common sense of actual law.
Right now Yoo is the only "safe one" to go after. We'll see what happens after the Inauguration.
In the meantime,
trust us, he IS a true prick.
John Conyers behaved like a truly ill-mannered, show-boating jerk.
What, do the Democrats feel it's necessary to descend to the level of the Republicans, now that they have the power and the popularity?
Extremely disappointing. I hope this is just a regrettable anomaly.
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