McCain's terrible vetting job on Joe the Plumber: Rick Davis is full of it!
By John Amato Friday Oct 17, 2008 12:01pmMcCain actually uses Joe in an ad...Another typical right wing trick late in the game. Joe would actually benefit mightily if Obama wins, but that doesn't matter to "Joe."
The MSM is finally doing a little research on another mistake by Rick Davis. Bloomberg writes a very detailed article and says:
Analysts said Wurzelbacher's circumstances have muddled McCain's effort to profit politically from the tax issue, making it unlikely ``Joe the plumber'' will have any more long-term benefit for his campaign than did the selection of Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate.
snip
Before living in Ohio, Wurzelbacher was a resident of Mesa, Arizona, in McCain's home state, according to property records.
McCain gave Wurzelbacher an apology yesterday for throwing him into the spotlight.
Since the media does read our blogs they are slowly reporting that Joe ain't all that he was cracked up to be by McCain. They do have the resources to dig very deep. And he doesn't even have a Plumber's license.
Joe the Plumber's story sprang a few leaks Thursday. Turns out that the man who was held up by John McCain as the typical, hard-working American taxpayer isn't really a licensed plumber. And court documents show he owes nearly $1,200 in back taxes.
"Joe," whose name is Samuel J. Wurzelbacher, was cited repeatedly in Wednesday night's final presidential debate by McCain for questioning Barack Obama's tax policy.
Wurzelbacher instantly became a media celebrity, fielding calls during the debate and facing reporters outside his home near Toledo on Thursday morning for an impromptu nationally televised news conference.
The burly, bald man acknowledged he doesn't have a plumber's license, but said he didn't need one because he works for someone else at a company that does residential work. In January 2007, Ohio's Department of Taxation filed a claim on his property until he pays the debt, according to the records. "I'm probably going to call him this morning. I thought he would probably be up late. I heard that his — that his phone lines were pretty well were flooded. But I think we're going to be spending some time together," McCain told the network.
What should we call him since he's not even a plumber? And when McCain calls him what will he say? "Thanks for scamming your way into the spot light? It's not my campaign's fault for not checking you out. I would have never mentioned you a million times at the debate." If blogs like C&L and many others didn't bother to check up on him would Joe still be getting the drooling Wolf Blitzer coverage?
Rick Davis tried to say that the Obama campaign is responsible for our debunking of "Joe," but Anna shoots that down.
Rick Davis, on this score, is full of it. I should have pointed it out earlier. All of the "anti-Joe" (or at least "questioning Joe") material I've received has come from bloggers, columnists, friends, etc. (And, of course, from righties decrying their actions.)
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McCain spent as much time looking into who Joe the plumber is as he did with Sarah Palin; take a look at what a Palin presidency would be like: http://brainrageblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/pal...
You mean to tell me, by any other standards this guy, would never be touched but because he asked a question his entire life is being turned upside down? This, is a shame. He was a little behind on taxes, so what, to me it means he is human and he has ups and downs. Barack in his own words today said that he didn't know any plumbers that made 250k a year, umm, he never said that, he said he wanted to buy a business with the potential of making 250k a year. There is video and audio of the exchange on the internet.
I for one would still like to see Obama's ORIGINAL birth certificate, not some copy posted here http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcer...
*note the revised date in the bottom left hand corner,11/01
I would like Obama to show in his hands his original certificate, until then, I have doubts.
A couple of points:
1. The entire conversation between Joe and Obama was silly, because, yes, Joe asked him about NET PROFITS for a business, and the whole conversation morphed into one about personal income over the next day or so. Either way, at Joe's current income level, the actual, correct answer to his question was "NO," Obama's plan will NOT raise his taxes. He'll actually pay less, according to the non-partisan Tax Policy Center's comparison of the two tax plans.
2. If you think it's unfair for the media to turn the spotlight on Joe, then TELL MCCAIN AND PALIN TO STOP USING HIM AS A TALKING POINT FIVE OR TEN TIMES AT EVERY STUMP SPEECH. You can't blame the Democrats for making an issue of Joe the Plumber, because it was the Republicans who brought him up, and continue to bring him up at least 20 times a day.
3. The revision date on Obama's birth certificate refers to the date the paper certificate was optically scanned into the database. i) What do you THINK the alteration refers to? Changing his place of birth from Oman to Oahu? Changing his father's name from Osama bin Laden to Barack Obama Sr? ii) That scanned copy still bears the seal of the State of Hawaii, and Obama would be charged with FORGERY if he put up an altered version of it. WIth a Department of Justice that responds to every whim of the Republican party to prosecute Democrats (witness the 8 attorney firings for refusing to prosecute enough Democrats, the takedown of Don Siegelman as America's first POLITICAL PRISONER, and the current ACORN investigation nonsense), do you really think they'd just sit back and let Barack Obama put up a FAKED birth certificate unchallenged?
Specifically, what are your doubts about Obama's birth certificate?
Actually, we're not even sure Joe is really a "Joe"
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=4051
More LICENSED Plumbers.
Liar Liar pants on fire!
I can't believe that these desperate fucks are actually using this idoit/fraud "Joe the GOP whore" in Grandpa's ads....no honor.
I sure am happy they are desperate, though. :)
they really try to make self-hate part of the fabric of middle-america and the middle-class.
they hate thet "joe" was discovered to be a fraud.
Not only did you shoot yourself in the foot, you blew your entire foot off!
This guy got his desired 15 minutes of fame and McCain once again proved he cannot run an even close to professional campaign. McCain should sue everyone on his campaign staff. Of course he is the boss of the whole thing so I guess he would also have to sue himself.
Joe's a good conservative, though. He believes that AVOIDING paying taxes is patriotic. Getting a free ride by having the sucker down the street pay for your police and fire department, while you either shelter your income in the Bahamas, or just refuse to pay your taxes because they're an example of "socialism"...definitely a conservative goal.
Not letting any portion of your paycheck get stolen by an overarching federal bureaucracy under threat of fines or prison-time is in fact the noble thing to do. Forget what you've been told otherwise. Forced charity is no charity at all.
If you want to live in a country with a government, you need to pay for it somehow. If you object to paying for a government, I'd suggest you move to a country that doesn't have one. Like, say, Somalia. Or maybe the tribal area of the Afghan/Pakistan border. No oppressive government, and no taxes, baby! You could keep ALL of your money, if you lived there. Be a true libertarian, and vote with your feet.
(Oh yeah, and you guys have got to stop hiding behind the Boston Tea Party. The founding fathers of the United States did not separate from Britain because they were against taxation. They separated because they were against taxation without REPRESENTATION. Last time I checked, most Americans were still living under a tax code that was written by the people that THEY SENT to Washington to write it. If you don't like the American taxation system, then send somebody to Washington who will change it or get rid of it. )
Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Losers!!!
No one has the right to question tax policy unless they pay their taxes...
This guy obviously is a right wing nut job and just wanted to try and put Obama on the spot. So he thought of a question about taxes, without realizing that he would actually benefit under Obama's plan.
This guy should go back to the sofa and the six pack.
Sorry, but:
You can vote or not, pay your taxes or not and you STILL have the right to express your opinion!
FROM JAIL. Heh heh heh
We all have to accept the consequences of our actions. Unless of course we are members of the ruling class.
tell me what my rights are.
especially you!
I bet you the McCains do more vetting when they hire servants for their homes than they did on Sarah and Joe.
well, wouldn't you with 8 mansions and three townhomes?
:<[)
This "Joe the Plumber" thing is just another in a long line of crazy things the McCain camp has done. I don't know which is better: the actual story or the incoherent scrambling that takes place after they are called out.
BUT....as I've said, and Obama said much more graciously yesterday...don't underestimate the ignorance and/or stupidity of the American people.
I'll be holding my breath until all the results are in.
Yep, O is an arrogant so and so isn't he?
Joe the plumber
Joe the plumber
Joe the plumber
Joe the plumber
Joe the plumber
Joe the plumber
Joe the plumber
I mean did the guy just out and out lie, or did some one feed him the question ahead of time.
I think he was a plant. Leave it to Mc Cain's campaign to plant a middle inccome tax evader.
I'm loving the glaring typo at 0:12.
"Everbody?"
Good catch. That's funny. They must be making these faster than they can read them.
Fire the proofreader!!
Ha. Ha. Ha.
Sloppy, sloppy work. It's as if they just don't care anmore (sic).
that their target audience doesn't know it's misspelled.
Maybe they'd know how to spell if they'd gone to Walter Reed Middle School instead of being home schooled by Elmer Gantry?
I totally missed that! Then again, when reading right wing posts, the pattern is obvious. Sorry, but education changed me for the better. These wingers couldn't pass a third grade grammar exam.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Ehh, so much for "'Joe' the plumber".... Evidently not really a licensed plumber, apparently doesn't actually pay taxes anyway... and it seems he's not even really named Joe..... You go old man... Keep on stumble-bumming your way thru this election... Looks like Joe, or whoever ain't gonna save your ass in some 11th our turnaround either... Hey, I'm good wid et old dude... Only makes Obama look better and better by comparasion...JD
If Joe The Plumber comes over to your house and fixes a problem, takes his $450 for an hour and you don't have to call 20 more Joe The Plumbers over the next 6 weeks to repair the botched jobs.
I suppose the concept of doing a job correct the first time isn't "cutting edge" enough in this day and age.
we need MBA's flipping worthless paper all over the globe or American Idol contestants.
First I heard he was connected to Keating. Yes, that Keating. Then, his name is Samuel Joseph whatever. Now, he's not a plumber or at least doesn't have a license (doesn't make him a bad plumber just not a plumber in the legal sense) nor does he pay his taxes.
Listening to McCain at the AES dinner last night, I got the sense that McCain knows its OVER but he has to keep on fighting. The concession speech could be a doozie. I voted already and I keep urging people to get up, get out and vote!
Don't worry Plumbers will be called Sanitary and Piping Scientists and wear lab coats the next four years.
But then I asked myself "why is mccain behaving so well?" and realized that he was surrounded by the people he considers his peers and he cares what they think and how he is perceived and they are all sitting right in front of him.
Today he's right back on the trail serving up lies by the heapin' helping.
Tula Connell's got the real Joe the Plumbers up in a piece at FDL... http://firedoglake.com/2008/10/17/meet-joe-th...
let's put the synergy of the blogs to work and buzz this bigtime.
I just saw a clip of Jim Webb speaking for Obama at a rally today. He asked the audience did they really think Palin was the best choice McCain could have made. The audience all yelled, "NO". Then Webb said, there was a song out some time back, it was called, "I Know What I was Doing but What was I Thinking". He said he bets McCain thinks about those words a lot these days.
This is still a good commercial for McBlame's base. There are going to be a lot of people to sit up and look at this commercial. Killing the messanger by trashing Joe isn't going to work. So what if the real Joe the Plumber was nothing more than a plant. They got Obama saying 'spread the wealth around'. The truth is we pay taxes for a civilized society, but the R's turn it round and make it sould like paying for the bread line to the lazy slobs.
Which just proves he is a true American. After all, Palin cheats on her income taxes and claims that paying taxes is unpatriotic. Or (at the very least) she mocks people who say that paying taxes is patriotic. Typical Republican Bull. They want the programs (of course, cut the programs for the other people) but don't want to pay for them.
Apparently it's patriotic to pay to maintain a millionaire's lifestyle using tax money.
???
That whole "paying taxes is patriotic" is totally asinine.
Oh yeah, Joe Biden said it, so you know it's asinine.
Even with Obama in the Oval Office Americans have to move beyond this 8 year spiral of negativity.
it goes back to noxin.
I would start by deporting david frum.
What makes you think the Canadians would take the rubber-faced little fuck BACK?
In Canada they have enjoyed TEN YEARS of budget surpluses, half of which have been used to pay down the national debt, in part because they have a progressive tax code, where the wealthy pay slightly more than the middle class. The Canadian debt to GDP ratio is lower than it is in the U.S.. The level of investment by private citizens in Canada is higher than it is in the U.S., despite Bush's attempts to turn the U.S. into an "ownership society." The Canadian GDP and industrial growth rates are both higher than the U.S. In fact, the U.S. is the only member of the G8 that has a NEGATIVE industrial growth rate. The Canadians have a single-pay health care system, where EVERYBODY is covered for EVERY necessary procedure, people are free to choose their own doctor, and it costs HALF the per capita amount that the U.S. HMO health care system costs, despite the U.S. "system" leaving one third of the population under-insured, and one third totally UN-insured. Because of the universal health care system, Canadian businesses are not placed at a competitive disadvantage by employers having to pay for the health insurance of their employees. The Canadian Army has participated in every U.N. peace keeping mission since the U.N. was founded, and has fulfilled its NATO obligations, including participating in the war in Afghanistan as retaliation for the attack on the U.S. on 9-11. As a result, Canada is respected throughout the world as a country that values diplomacy above force.
Why do I mention all this? Because if David Frum dared to show his face back in Canada, and started preaching his neo-conservative drivel about tax cuts for the rich, the "evils" of socialized medicine, and the use of force restructure politics in the middle east, he'd be stripped naked, painted blue, and mailed back to the American Enterprise Institute in a FEDEX bag.
Has anyone else noticed how closely Joe the Plumber resembles Jeff Gannon?
Bush can't wait to rub that head.
MSNBC has been all over the plumber story today. The farce of it all is outweighing anything Obama said
He's prolly not even be bald...
Oh man ... I can has grammer lesson?
while you're ahead,Earl.
"I'm John McCain and I approved these lies"
true!
McCain Approves Open
Sen. McCain approves truth-enhanced negative campaign messages
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/politi...
:<[)
Is it true that phoney Joe the phoney plumber is an in-law of the Keating family?
That was suggested yesterday but there is no solid proof yet.
yet!
It appears "joe" moved from Arizona.
He doesn't have a license. He will probably face a fine for doing plumbing without one. And his boss will face a fine for using him for plumbing jobs.
Joe is shit out of luck any way you slice it.
Yesterday they said in that particular town or county, if you work for a licensed plumber, you need not have a license. So I don't know if he's in trouble or not.
I bet about now Joe wishes he had never agreed to this bullshit because now he will be teased about it the rest of his life.
Plus he is due for an IRS audit and a hefty fine for practicing plumbing without a license (I saw where he needed a journeyman certificate or an apprentice certificate to plumb where he is).
No, yesterday that is what *Joe* said. The plumbing and licensing board disagred (but what do they know, they are just public servants.)
It is pretty indicative of the Republican "make up the rules as you go along" mentality. Real plumbers have to be pretty pissed off at this guy.
An apprentice can work for a licensed plumber. It takes years to get a plumber's license and you do have to take a test. The rules for a license are different in each state and i understand that in Florida you have to have a license for each county.
You have to to know what your doing. Most Americans think a Plumber plunges toilets.
Yeah they do on occasion because some idiot can't figure out how to plunge their own or they are some "big shot" who doesn't want to face their own sh*t.
Hayden Panettiere did a Vote for McCain PSA for Funny or Die.
"He's just like George Bush, except older and with a worse temper." Be careful watching at work - she says "fuck" multiple times.
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/df8d1f5b7d
I'm sure that will help Obamas agenda of cultivating friends and allies.
:<[)
like me and you, right?
She remains one of my Heroes. :)
Because I'm hot, I know I'll have your attention for 30 seconds.
Well, sorta cute in a snarky way... But I only heard the cute looking little blonde hottie use the word fuck three times.... Maybe that's a lot to some people, not so much to me.. And to be truthful... hot babes saying fuck is kinda a turnon.... But that's just me... I don't think this vid as far as the political season goes is any more or less juvenile than any others floating about the ether... And I didn't get turned on to the extent I would sit here and 'jackit' to use a south parkism over it all... As far as real sex goes... I like mine skin to skin....JD
Wait 'til Joe goes to the polls to find out his ID doesn't match his registration. He has a "u" in his name. It's an "o" at the polls.
Since Joe the plumber apparently doesn't pay his taxes, I suppose the point of the ad is that Obama is going to give money to... Joe the Plumber!
I wish that the MSM would call McCain out on his position. I have heard him say in a speech the following things:
1) I will not raise taxes
2) I will balance the budget
3) I will give you a tax break on healthcare
4) I will invest in Nuclear energy
5) I will freeze the budget
6) I will buy the failing mortgages (government sponsored housing?)
7) I acted swiftly (to spend $1 trillion to stop the credit crisis)
8) The $10 trillion deficit is the fault of my opponent
Each line gets applause. Nobody ever forces him to connect the dots.
The people at his rallies aren't paying attention to or looking for details they just cheer when he says the things they like. They bark when they see the treats.
We would call them "treats". McCain would call them "goodies". :P
Connect the dots as in "how is he going to collect 300 billion LESS in taxes, and still balance the budget?"
It's simple: He's going to veto 18 billion dollars worth of earmarks!
To the home-schooled, 300 billion minus 18 billion equals....ZERO! YeeHAW!
i notice the company 'joe' works for has exactly one employee -- and i bet that one employee is plotting right now how to take over the company -- the company also claims that they do heating and air conditioning... i wonder if 'joe' is working on his air conditioning license as well???
oh, and i bet if people don't pay their bill on time 'joe' is the guy who goes out to shake down the customer for late payment...
what a moron this guy is? the only license he's fit to hold is a clown license?
next time 'joe' thinks about speaking up when he sees a presidential candidate walking down the street he'll wise up and just keep throwing the football around.
ps - i hear his great grandfather helped with the plumbing on the titanic.
"i notice the company 'joe' works for has exactly one employee -- and i bet that one employee is plotting right now how to take over the company "
So, Joe is going to buy the business from Joe? Believe me, in Republican land this makes sense. It's the same logic that says a Senator who has been in Washington for 30 years is going to go to Washington and CLEAN UP the Washington culture!
My son in law is a real plumber with the Chicago Department of Water Management. The same department where Michelle Obama's father used to work.
Calling this guy "Joe" a plumber is like calling a restaurant dishwasher a chef just because he works in the kitchen.
Ooh. I just thought of a better name for Joe the plumber's helper. Plunger boy.
How about Joe the illegal plumber?
1. Vote Obama
2. Receive decent tax cut.
3. Repay IRS
4. Shave head
6. Profit?
While Obama was being interviewed by local t.v. about a month ago, a Black woman called out to him persistently from the ropeline. Obama stopped the interview for a moment, and said he'd come over to hear her when the interview ended. She told him that she'd recently lost her husband at age 70, and his wish had been that he would live long enough to vote for Obama for president.
Right we all hope we live long enough for it.
I only have to make it until next Saturday when I cast my early vote.
Truth is computer repair is no more glamorous then plumbing.
How bout Fritz the Geek?
Joe the Plumber is doing to McShame the Asshole what Sarah the Dipshit did. Bringing him down in the polls. Everybody except the dumbass base thinks that MsShame the Asshole is an asshole.
Well soon people are going to have to jump off the negativity train and do something productive for this country rather then letting the Wing Nuts dominate their minds every single day of their lives.
This entire post is a ridiculous attempt to cancel out a man's credibility because what he is saying happens to be the hidden truth.
Who cares if he is really a plumber? The point he is trying to make is about Obama's tax plan.
Whenever an extreme liberal Democrat is promising tax cuts, then you know something is suspicious. Add to that the fact that Obama is promising tax cuts to 95% of Americans and there is a lot of smoke. Like other things Obama says, where there's smoke, there is most certainly fire.
First, let's look at Obama's tax plan: Cut taxes for 95 percent of workers and their families with a tax cut of $500 for workers or $1,000 for working couples.
Before attacking his plan, let's look at his spending plan, because America ultimately has to pay for these things, which amount to over $800 million in new spending over 4 years, which is added to our already $3.2 trillion budget. Here are the plans:
A $65 billion-a-year health plan
$15 billion in green energy spending
$85 billion in tax cuts and credits
$25 billion-a-year increase in foreign aid
$18 billion a year in education spending
$3.5 billion for a national service plan
Put it all together, and we are talking about a $200 billon plan, $800 billion over four years.
I will do a point by point analysis of what's wrong with this.
1. Even if Obama's tax plan is completely true, then $500 for workers and $1,000 is chump change when you think about the increased cost of living that will come from additional government spending. With gasoline and food prices alone, how long would that even last, a month or two at most?
2. The Obama plan will be devastating for small businesses. Currently, S corporations face a top tax rate of 35 percent, while sole proprietors and general partners face a tax rate of 37.9 percent (since they’re responsible for paying both income tax and the Medicare component of the payroll tax).
Under Obama’s plan to let the scheduled 2011 tax rate hikes occur, and his plan to raise the self-employment tax on those making more than $250,000, the S corporation rate would rise from 35 percent to 39.6 percent. BUT HERE IS WHAT OBAMA DOESN'T TELL YOU: the sole proprietor and partner rate would rise from 37.9 percent all the way up to a staggering 50.3 percent!!!! Many Democrats in Congress have proposed making ALL small businesses (including S corporations) pay this 50-plus percent rate! A small business tax rate that high would reduce the incentive to open a small business in the first place. Small businesses will essentially be working 4-6 months out of the year for the federal government, which will then turn around and use their money inefficiently and uneffectively on failed programs.
So much for improving the economy. The plan will only stifle the growth of business.
3. Obama's plan will give America one of the highest combined tax rates in the industrialized world.
Currently only six of the top 30 industrial nations have a tax rate for all levels of government combined of over 55 percent. Under this tax plan, the United States would join this group and have a higher top rate than such high-tax nations as Sweden and Denmark. The top marginal rate would exceed 60 percent with the inclusion of state and local taxes, which means that only Hungary would exceed Senator Obama's new proposed top tax rate.
4. If Obama promises $800 billion in new spending and will supposedly cut taxes, how on Earth will Obama pay for all of the programs he has proposed??? Taxing the rich won't pay for all of the new spending.
The final result is that Obama cannot possibly lower taxes He can promise you tax cuts, but if he were honest, he would tell you that the only way he can possibly pay for sustaining old failing programs and creating new ones is by raising taxes. He may claim to only raise them on the rich, but in the end, not even the rich can pay for all of this with taxes. The result? A weaker dollar, higher prices for oil, food, and other necessities, and greater unemployment. Obama says he is being honest about the terrible situation we are now in, but he has no plans to reduce spending. He only promises more spending, which will certainly cripple the American economy.
"From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." -Karl Marx-
Down with socialism. Down with government spending. NOBAMA.
*Statistics in this article were taken from non-partisan websites. I simply put them together to form a case.
I appreciate your contribution and comment, but dude, what a downer
See what the Republicans have made us do because of their selfish inept governing ability?
Typical repo right wing assholes who are trying to grasp the last straw on thier sinking ship, rats always do that,, so joe the plumber dont like paying taxes, well tough shit joe if you dont like it move to a 3rd world country, ie no taxes and by the way joe redneck plumber if you hate ssi the way you do, please remember me and just send me your ssi checks when you retire you pice of shit.
$800 million in new spending over 4 years? How much have the republicans spent in the last 8 years? We'll never match them for spending on shit.
AS FOR WHO WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MORGAGE CRISIS:
"If you want to track this economic crisis back to it's roots, look up the Community Reinventment Act which I believe was started by Jimmy Carter (democrat) and totally realized under Bill Clinton (democrat). This legislation demanded banks provide sub prime mortgages to low income families. While it is a wonderful idea, it is an economic disaster as we can see today. When these mortgages where not being paid in full, the government created Fannie May and Freddie Mac, financial institutions which bought up all of these bad mortgages. While this looks good on paper, your business is doing great because you have all these houses that your company owns, the money was never getting paid back into the mortgages. So the housing markets grew and grew, but the money was not there. That's why all of these banks are declaring bankruptcy and going under. Watch this video, it explains it very well."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RZVw3no2A4
It sounds good but it is not true. This all has to do with sub prime lending not providing low cost loans to people of modest means, but providing loans to people of modest means with exploding interest rates.
Get your facts straight (if you know what a fact actually looks like) and come back in a few years.
I believe that this analysis is what is technically known as bullshit. No bank was required to make mortgages available to persons unable to pay them. The vast majority of such mortgages were made by private institutions that bundled them and sold them as securities. They did it to make money and lots of it. They didn't give a rats ass who got a mortgage because they didn't plan on keeping it long enough to worry about the first payment being made. The idea that this is somehow all a Fannie Mae /Freddie Mac fiasco is pure right wing bullshit.The failure of the proper regulations to be put in place and enforced lies squarely with the Bush administration. It has always been an article of faith with these people that government is incompetent and they set out to prove their point by massive incompetence. Here is one case where George Bush can rightfully proclaim: Mission Accomplished.
Kudos to you!
Congratulations: you all have bought into the system.
And the saddest thing is that, a majority of liberals will never believe any of this or let themselves believe it, because the mainstream media will never tell them.
If/when Obama wins this thing, the media will just make everything look better. We will stop hearing the word crisis we hear so often. It won't matter if he does anything. If anything bad happens the media will tell you "hes handling it well." If any of these new liberal spending plans flop, he will blame Bush for laying the foundation for disaster. It may sound ridiculous, but it happened with the bailout. It was democratic groups that manipulated the free market, not the free market itself that got us into crisis. And yet the republicans get blamed for "deregulation."
If McCain actually pulls this thing off, the medic will continue to make everything look worse and worse.. in hopes that America will "get" it and elect a liberal the next time around.
Because the news is rigged. They have the audacity to call fox news republican/conservative-bias when every other news station is democrat/liberal-bias. Because if they can get you to believe that government programs/spending is the way to go, they have more of your money and more control over you. And American buy into the system so why should they stop?
I know what you are saying, the bubble was more complicated that just this one path/one party. Truth is, government spending is way beyond its means. Both parties are guilty of this. But when you do the math, Obama plans to grow our government and increase our spending further beyond our means. Long term, this is disasterous. We already cannot afford the programs we have. We need to get the feds out of the way, drastically decrease our spending, and begin to liquidate our debt. Otherwise we will continue to lower the value of the dollar to the point of worldwide economic distaster.
First off, Fannie and Freddie's creation predated these problems. You have incorrectly represented what was cause and what was effect. It wasn't subprime mortgages, it started with the Bush administration undelmining the regulatory function of the government agencies that should have been over-seeing the banking and investment industries, for example, over-riding the consumer protection laws in all fifty states through his corruption of the OCC. Until he did that, their were no problems, and the system you are demonizing worked very well. The Bush Administration, with the help of GOP control of Congress and an ineffectual Democratic oppostion, followed by an ineffectual Democratic majority, with the further help of a government that has become so corrupt under the steady hand of GOP control that it is little better than a cat house that exclusively serves corporate and banking interests...opened the door to corrupt, predatory and usurious lending practices. That was he beginning of it. But what precipitated this crises was banks lending to customers they knew did not qualitfy, because the lenders knew that they were going to dump these loans off, almost as soon as the ink was dry on the mortgages, on others as bundled derivatives. The lendors failed to perform their tollgate duties before lending their investor's money, and they did it in order to make huge, easy and quick profits. The final guaruntee of this unprecedented crises was assured when these fraudulant derivatives were bought without any serious efforts at due diligence by the buyers of those instruments, and the lenders relied on the credibility afforded them by their reputations in the industry to dampen efforts to competently perform that required due diligence.
We are in a crises, because a greed-driven pyramid/Ponzi scheme came to its inevitable, and only possible, outcome. Attempts to assign all of the blame to the victims isn't going to fly. Mark my words, before its's over, the perpetrators of the crimes that created this fiasco are going to be subjected to criminal justice. I haven't researched it out, but I'm willing to bet that the people who ran the offending lending and investment companies, and the deal makers who gave loans and subsequently created toxic derivatives which they fraudulantly marketed as bundled derivatives, and the investment mangaers who bought them were overwhelmingly, if not to a person, fine, upstanding Republicans.
Even if you don't count all the unbudgeted/unreported billions pumped into Haliburton, Blackwater, et.al.
Your argument is respectful, but ultimately incoherent. Let's take your first claim:
Even if Obama's tax plan is completely true, then $500 for workers and $1,000 is chump change when you think about the increased cost of living that will come from additional government spending. With gasoline and food prices alone, how long would that even last, a month or two at most?
Wow! Talk about slipping your conclusion into your argument. "Government spending raises your cost of living, therefore Obama can't possibly lower taxes. Thus, Obama can't possibly lower taxes." What I think you left out is evidence that "government spending raises your cost of living" in some way other than taxes, along with estimates of how much "government spending" raises your "cost of living". It would be nice if you show how "government spending" is responsible for gasoline and food prices, which I thought were set by the all-powerful markets.
Obviously, "government spending" can't raise everybody's cost of living -- if the government started handing out money to pay for gasoline and food costs, it is hard to see how the cost of living would go up. Taxes would go up, but the point you seem to be trying to make is that whether taxes go up or down, Obama increases taxes.
The idea that it will be catastrophic for small businesses is not supported by any facts. Small businesses are not going to keep much more than $250,000 of INCOME on the books. It is not good tax policy, and it is not good business. (It is like having a delivery truck that you refuse to use because it might get dirty.) Any small businesses that choose to keep more on the books will pay only on the amount over $250K that they for some reason keep.
As far as tax rate goes, the actual tax rate in the US is pretty low for corporations. In fact, the GAO reports that 2 out of 3 corporations in the United States pay no income taxes at all!
If you want to see how Obama pays for his new programs, go to his website. He claims that for each new program, there is a corresponding cut elsewhere. The Iraq war costs $12 billion more more PER MONTH. If you are truly worried about deficits and the economy, that seems like the most obvious place to begin cutting.
In interveiws with reporters, Wurzelbacher said that he’s working on taking the Ohio plumbing contractor’s license test.
Too late 'joe' -- you're goin' to jail!!! And every customer you worked for the past several years has a right to sue you and your future company.
A trial lawyer's delight!
Yes, I'm being satiric here, but in all seriousness if Newell Plumbing is charging customer's rates that are in line with other plumbing companies and not telling their customer's that 'joe' doesn't have a license then there should be some repercussions.
Sorry, you are wrong. A plumber with a license can oversee other plumbers without a license. This not like having a license to drive a truck. A Journeyman Plumber can direct work and inspect a job after completion to ensure proper work has been done within building code specifications. Joe is perfectly ok working for a licensed plumber. He is an apprentice.
Right on roge!!!
Please do not confuse the partisans with facts that my conflict with their talking points. Its bad for business. end snark.
Where you don't have to pull permits!
I can solve any problem.
Next.
Plumbing? McCain knows how to do that.
In fact, he knows how to put an end to leaky faucets forever. But he can't reveal his plan until after he's elected.
In fact,speaking of plumbers, McCain's palled around with Liddy, extensively. I'm sure G. Gordon could give him a few handy hints about drain-circling. G. is very generous with dispensing the handy hints (see "ATF Agents, proper disposal of")
Hey Joe...wadda know...just got back from the John McCain show...next thing ya know....I saw ya Joe...drowning in Johnnie Mac's undertow.
We would call them "treats". McCain would call them "goodies". :P
I call them teats...and they are treats...goodies tooo!
Joe Wurzelbacher is the son of Robert Wurzelbacher http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?re...
- the son-in-law of Charles Keating - The Charles Keating of the Keating 5 scandal - for which Sen. John McCain was reprimanded by the Senate for his part in attempting to illegally influence government regulators, according to The Huffington Post.
Robert Wurzelbacher was an exec of American Continental Corp., the parent company of Charles Keating's Lincoln Savings. That's the bank that failed causing many to lose their life savings and cost US taxpayers $4.3 billion.
Turns out there is no relation, at least that is the latest i heard. They have the same last name, but that is as far as it goes.
Remember in 2006 when the right attacked a little kid over health care especially Malkin? This kid and her family put themselves into the debate so according to Malkin they were fair game to vicious attacks. You have to go over to Malkin's site and read her lead articles. What a complete hypocrite she is. I apologize I can't remember the name of the kid and family.
malkin is trash. try not to read her. life's too short.
Can't help it. I guess it's the lack of sitcoms on TV.
Joe the Plumber being discussed by GOP'er on FOX news, Conservative talking head Malzberg insisted ".... that even though the actual Joe Wurzelbacher would do far better under Obama's tax plans, the real point is that raising taxes on the wealthy to give relief to the middle class removes any incentive for people to get rich...."
Isn't that precious!!! . . . making rich people pay taxes would remove incentive to the red, white and blue Plebes to GET rich . . . roflmao.
So what are the incentives for tax payers to bail them out of jail sentences for fraud in the banking industry and Wall Street OR . . fund their hostile military takeovers of oil fields . . .is it archived in the file folder with those yellow cake documents and mushroom cloud mime troup scripts?
I think citing Joe the Plumber without his permission was wrong of John McCain.
I think the MSM putting Joe the Plumber's life on front street without so much as a by-your-leave is per their usual but still disgusting and distasteful.
I think C&L stooping to perpetuate the MSM/ McCain/ Republican rhetoric that the details of Joe the Plumbers life from his overdue tax bill to his lack of plumbers license (which is not required for the type of work he does) is a sad low. First time I've been ashamed of reading a C&L article.
Hope the feeling does not continue.
This "Joe the plumber" or "Sam the unlicensed plumber" comes across as an angry right wing anti-government jerk. He hates social security and paying taxes and makes Sammy Davis Jr. tap dancing remarks when no other presidential candidate would have spent that much time clearly and concisely explaining his tax proposals to him. This Joe Sam whoever should be thanking Obama for actually listening to his concerns and taking the time to answer him so thoroughly. What an ungrateful person.
Republicans think they can score points with their repetition of this "spread the wealth" line. Hate to tell you folks but people actually like the idea of keeping more money in their pockets while the fat cats who have become multi-millionaires have to pay a little more. We know the Republicans hate the idea of spreading the wealth because they're the ones who have shafted the middle class for the past 8 years. Well guess what? Time to pay the piper. It's about time the middle class got a break and Sen. Obama is going to provide it.
Chris Matthews just had a crazy right wing member of the House of Reps on his show. She wants the press to check out all the members of congress and find out which ones are anti American. This woman is truly certifiable.
I think it may have been the same woman that at on of the state of the union addresses or something just kept holding on to bush and trying to kiss him. Does anyone remember that woman's name?
Sounds to me like we no longer have to check her out. We already know she is anti American.
michelle bachman should follow noonan's advice: if they think ayers is a serious issue, treat it seriously. if they really think obama is a terrorist then ask the doj to investigate. but they wouldnt do that because they only seek to have a cloud of doubt perpetually hanging over obama.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
You know what the key message in that ad was? They sort of broke it into two sentences to give themselves some plausible deniability, but it comes at the end of the ad, where they show a welfare check and say:
[b]"... to give welfare to those who pay none (taxes)... just as you suspected..."[/b]
That's a little shout out to the racists who are concerned that Obama is only for 'the blacks'.
Remember that fictional couple that the insurance lobby created, back at the beginning of Clinton's first term, and their deep and searching kitchen table discussions about how uncertain, then how scared and finally, how terrified they were of the Clinton's healthcare plan? You remember...that deceptive TV campaign of disinformation designed to scuttle popular support for universal healthcare, by scaring the shit out of the average American? What was their name....Harold and Maud....no....something along that line. It looks like the stellar geniuses who are running the McCain campaign are trying to resurrect that tactic. Well,you know....if it worked once....
These are some seriously short-sighted people. This McCain campaign is becoming a study in how habituation to corruptly holding and exercising substantial power can transform people into......just droolingly stupid slugs, how being made untouchable by that power can insulate the powerful from reality. These clowns are so estranged from reality that they should probably be institutionalized for their own protection. Their possession of power enabled them to wrap themselves in a dishonest illusion of intelligent and wise probity. Apparently they have come to accept their own shabby construct as reality. Add to the mix their supremely smug, utter self-assurance and complete faith in their ability to achieve - by whatever means required (Mr. Rove, et alia) - permanent hold of all power, and we get levels of contempt for the American People that are just astonishing. Who would have though that being possessed by an infinite capacity for such cynical and desperate contempt could produce deep, even epic, insanity? But here we are, to wit: The McCain campaign team.
This Joe the Plumber scam is an attempted re-deployment of an earlier deception by people who are so lost in the insanity of their hubris, their arrogance and their supreme contempt for the American voter, that it probably never occured to them to attempt any other path but that of decptive manipulation. They are apparently so lost in a wilderness of their own making, that they are no longer able to summon the will for even the minimum-most impulse towards common decency. Their public pretense of intelligent and wise probity is pretty much in the shitter, and the joke is on them: they haven't caught on yet that the protective bubble that was their public pretense has been pierced. Now, their every slimey act serves only to solidify their collective status as deluded, consumate and perpetual fools.
The Republican Party is descending into a death spiral.
Joe it turns out is a big bullshitter.
No real plans to buy the business (for which neither he nor his boss is licensed).
"Seems Joe, who is actually Samuel J. Wurzelbacher, told the conservative Web site familysecuritymatters.org that catching the Democratic presidential candidate off guard 'was actually my intent.'" http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/...
And another interesting fact: Though now a Republican, he was a member of the Natural Law Party. Id.
The guy's a real piece of work.
i kind of suspected this. 1) he didnt use his real name 2) he's a republican who voted for mccain in the primaries 3) he has no capability of buying a plumbing business. he just wanted to stump obama and be able to tell his friends he was able to do so in their next drinking session.
Thanks to Matt Drudge for giving us the gift of Joe. Keep up the good work!
To the McCain campaign, please continue using the Drudge Report to get wonderfully unvetted ideas.
I haven't concluded whether Palin is worse for McCain than Davis is. Either way and in applicable to both: Worse choice EVER!
C&L obviously loves the daily show, so I hope you'll be so kind to put up his piece on the "vetting" of plumber joe. Makes all you look like perfect arses as far as I'm concerned.
Who knew right-wing nuts took jon stewart seriously?
[Deleted. Abusive. New version of the site, but the same commenting rules as the old version. Please keep it civil. Thank you. Site Monitor]
Being Italian it's in my blood to hate paying taxes, but in my family we paid them regardless. It was the "americano" thing to do. Those who deliberately avoided taxes we called either freeloaders, deadbeats, or smarter than us.
I believe the last name of the "Joe" McCain's campaign refers to is McCarthy....
McCain's campaign didn't make sure "Joe the Plumber" was squeaky clean before foisting him into the international spotlight. Now the Senator is backpeddling, defending "Joe" from so-called muckraking by Obama.
The problem is neither "Joe the Plumber," McCain, nor Obama deserve our trust or support. McCain used "Joe." And I continue to wonder what kind of leader makes a major decision to stop campaigning in Michigan without consulting his running mate or the local party there. Do we really want the president telegraphing his intentions to the other side?
As for Obama? He's just a liar! There's plenty of evidence to show his ties to ACORN go way beyond simply serving as legal counsel on one case 13 years ago. How about that $80,000 direct payment from Obama's campaign to ACORN? Or the $800,000 to an affiliated organization?
can someone slow that ad down and examine all those flickering lights in it for all the subliminal messages that it surely contains?
the education to income ratio is best for plumbers. this joe guy looks like a typical redneck and probably was a mccain plant.
Jim the Democratic plumber
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2vmXcsrqNo
VET Joe the Plumber, you people are ridiculous maybe our "News Anchors " Should vet each other and the PResidential Candidates, Lets look forthe seamy undebelly of every American, So how about we examine every American with the ferocity we have Joe, lets look at every Americans past, Traffic Tickets, Political persuasion,medical history, how many people you cut off in traffic. LETS HAVE A "TRUTH SQUAD" against every American Citizen and lets ask the KGB for advice on how to go about it. LETS VET EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN, especially if they disagree with it, better yet why don't we all go on TV and confess our sins real or imagined. Why all this hooplah about Joe the Plumbers background SINCE WHEN DID IT BECOME ILLEGAL TO ASK A PUBLIC SERVANT A QUESTION. Is this the Future we have with a Democrat Tri-Fecta not being able to ask the people we elect questions? Are they going to suppress our free speach. It is frightening to think that we cannot ask questions of our government without vicious and denigrating attacks. I personally wish that everyone and the purported NEWS REPORTERS had looked into Obama as well as they had looked into Joe an American Citizen who asked a simple question and didn't like the answer he got. What kind of country will we have? What Governments suppress the rights of their citizens to question and disagree with their Government? I am afraid the "Fairness Doctrine " will be revived and those of us who wish to question our Government will be silenced.Do these fanatical Zealots so single minded in their aim to elect their candidate that they would denigrate a citizen of this
country for asking a question? Have we become the country of free speach only for those who agree with you? I want to retain my right to question any person running for office.
Big Brother looms over us , I am afraid the Tri-Fecta of a Democratic Congress, Senate & Presidency would spend us into oblivion and suppress our right to disagree with our government. and for those of you who call Repubs racist heres a great website.
http://www.nationalblackrepublicans.com/index...
HEres a little tidbit:
NBRA Newsletter - Obama vs McCain Candidate Comparison NBRA's Denver MLK Billboard Campaign Was A Huge Success Martin Luther King Was A Republican Billboards - Photos An Open Letter To Obama From Black Republicans NBRA At The NAACP Convention 2008 Whitewash - The racist history the Democratic Party wants you to forget by Bruce Bartlett The Democrats' own history with race By Bruce Bartlett In their Own Words: North Carolina Democrats Issue A Resolution of Apology for 1898 Race Riot Democrats Smeared MLK in the 1960s For Those With Black RepubIican PAC Questions - Click Here In her article, "A Covenant With Life: Reclaiming MLK’s Legacy", MLK's niece, Dr. Alveda C. King, affirms that her uncle Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Republican Unveiled: Democrats’ Racist Past by Frances Rice See The NBRA Grassroots Activities - click here Order Black Republican Forum Videos Why Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Republican
By Frances Rice
It should come as no surprise that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Republican. In that era, almost all black Americans were Republicans. Why? From its founding in 1854 as the anti-slavery party until today, the Republican Party has championed freedom and civil rights for blacks. And as one pundit so succinctly stated, the Democrat Party is as it always has been, the party of the four S's: Slavery, Secession, Segregation and now Socialism.
It was the Democrats who fought to keep blacks in slavery and passed the discriminatory Black Codes and Jim Crow laws. The Democrats started the Ku Klux Klan to lynch and terrorize blacks. The Democrats fought to prevent the passage of every civil rights law beginning with the civil rights laws of the 1860's, and continuing with the civil rights laws of the 1950's and 1960's.
During the civil rights era of the 1960's, Dr. King was fighting the Democrats who stood in the school house doors, turned skin-burning fire hoses on blacks and let loose vicious dogs.
For those who are new to neoconservatism, here is a guide to understanding them. Often it's hard to understand them.. but here is a guide to making sense of what they say.
Remember the Seinfeld episode the opposite? To quote the immortal George Costanza:
"I did this opposite thing last night. Up was down! Black was white! Good was bad! Day was night!...And it's all happening because I'm completely ignoring every urge towards common sense and good judgment that I've ever had."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjXUgxR4Z10
Well if you run what they are saying through this filter suddenly everything they say makes sense. Here are some examples:
Bush: Compassionate conservatism.
Opposite translation: Heartless policies that cause massive spending and unprecedented deficits.
Bush: I'm here to restore honor and dignity to the White House.
Opposite translation: I'm here to shred the Constitution and use lies and deception to mislead an entire nation, bringing global shame upon our nation in the process.
McCain: Joe the plumber from Ohio hopes for tax relief!
Opposite translation: Samuel the unlicensed tax cheat from Arizona hopes a gullible and pliant media won't check his background.
McCain: The Department of Justice seeks to stop voter fraud!
Opposite translation: A government department unjustly seeks to suppress legitimate voter turnout.
I think you see the pattern here... I wonder what the Opposite translation of Truthteller is? Hmmm.....
If you are going to put a plant in the Obama audience, couldn't you find someone that is not traced back to Mesa, Arizona possibly related to a major player with the Keating scandal, another Wurzelbacher, that lived in a housing development constructed by Keating, living on a street with the name Keating.
If I were you, John McCain, I would sue the ass off of your handlers for the ineptitude of vetting I have seen in your campaign, Sara Palin included. The only way you can win this election is if you steal it just like your predecessor did twice.
OBAMA + DEM CONG = USA RIP
what a bunch of fucking morons you all are. Senator Government's answer, not Joe's job status, is the issue.
"The Plumber's Crack Heard Round the World"
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