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Nouriel Robini supports massive government stimulus package.

The Man who predicted the economic meltdown believes we need a massive goverment stimulus package because all the macro news coming out has been much worse than expected.

He writes:

The good news is that America has just elected a president with leadership, vision and great intelligence.

However, Obama will inherit and economic and financial mess worse than anything the U.S. has faced in decades: the most severe recession in 50 years; the worst financial and banking crisis since the Great Depression; a ballooning fiscal deficit that may be as high as a trillion dollar in 2009 and 2010; a huge current account deficit; a financial system that is in a severe crisis and where deleveraging is still occurring at a very rapid pace, thus causing a worsening of the credit crunch; a household sector where millions of households are insolvent, into negative equity territory and on the verge of losing their homes; a serious risk of deflation as the slack in goods, labor and commodity markets becomes deeper; the risk that we will end in a deflationary liquidity trap as the Fed is fast approaching the zero-bound constraint for the Fed Funds rate; the risk of a severe debt deflation as the real value of nominal liabilities will rise given price deflation while the value of financial assets is still plunging. This is the bitter gift that the Bush administration has bequeathed to Obama and the Democrats.



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24 comments

He saved me a lot of cash when he alerted me to the Subprime fiasco in 2006. Everything that he predicted came true... sadly.

He says the recession is going to be 18 to 24 months and it is global. The stock market won't bottom out for at least another six months.

He also said that we need public works programs like FDR did to build a 21st century infrastructure and do it with green technology. This is close to what Obama has proposed.

Paul Krugman also supports this and says that Republicans criticized FDR's WPA program because it was supposed to have delayed the recovery. Much like what we are hearing now.

Krugman debunked this and put together a graph to show that FDR's program only faltered when he pulled back because of the Repugs.

Check out his graph of those years:

Fiscal FDR
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/f...

The real danger for Obama is if he doesn't make his WPA program big enough and maintain it.

and sometimes the comments get turned off...

:-)

Question:

What is worse than a Great Depression…

Answer:

Hyper inflation.

-------
Roubini is talking about a $300-400 Billion stimulus package.

Paulson and Bernanke have together gone through more than $4 Trillion.

President-elect Obama will need National support similar to FDR to even have a chance to get this Nation out of Dubya's outhouse. And the single issue constituents(already mad about FISA, Lieberman, etc.), please give the guy least a week after taking the oath of office before you turn on him.

Oil peaked at $147 a barrel July 2008.

It traded as low as $45 a barrel today.

Russia, Iran & Venezuela are all highly dependent on oil revenue, and all have been operating under the assumption that oil prices would remain high or go higher.

The current collapse in oil prices, driven by reduced global demand, is playing havoc with their economies.

Guardian UK: From the Kremlin to Caracas, how oil collapse changes everything

I managed to move my 401(k) out of equities before the market tanked.
I highly recommend subscribing to his RGE Monitor.
As a service during this financial crisis, subscription is free for now.

Nouriel Roubini stands fairly alone on that, Marc Faber, Peter Schiff, Robert Kiyosaki, Jim Rogers, and even The Donald plus a slew of others who all also saw this moment coming years ago do NOT support the bailout.

You don't pay off bad debt with more bad debt.
You don't pay one credit card off with another credit card.

If you want a better understanding these are some great resources.

With what money are we paying for this?! People need to understand that the dollar is printed out of thin air and that we have a $53 trillion dollar monster staring us in the face.

Crash course on the economy
More than just a video, it's a comprehensive 3 hour presentation covering the most important issues we face over the next 20 years all of which are going to start affecting the Obama presidency from the day he enters office.
http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse

I.O.U.S.A.: Byte-Sized - The 30 Minute Version
If you want to understand what we are facing in simple terms, this is a must watch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_TjBNjc9Bo

60 Minutes - Head comptroller of the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) David Walker says that the U.S. economy is unsustainable
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6Q14HOBThM&fe...

That is BS!

If you go to RGE Monitor his website which is rated the number one website by economists you'll see plenty who do agree with him.

The Least of these is Nobel Prize winning Economist Paul Krugman:

Franklin Delano Obama?
By Paul Krugman
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/opinion/10k...

Fiscal FDR
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/f...

'The Real Rasputin' I'm on Roubini's mailing list and get his RGE Monitor Top 5. I have great respect for Roubini's insights as well as Paul Krugman and Warren Buffett. I also have great respect for economist Marc Faber, Peter Schiff, Jim Rogers, Robert Kiyosaki, Donald Trump, Richard Duncan, John Williams, Michael Maloney, and on and on.

Some are for the bail out and some are not, I'm not because simply we are engaging in unprecedented monetary hyperinflation, not to be confused with other forms of inflation, clearly the economy is in a deflationary situation now. Never before have we printed so many fiat dollars (1.5 trillion in the total pool as of today).

Adjusted Monetary Base - US FED
http://research.stlouisfed.org/publications/u...

* Never before has the world relied on one fiat currency as it does today.
* Never before have so many bet their retirement on the stock market
* Never before have we fought two wars simultaneously and lowered taxes
* Never before has the entire world been on the tail end of an exponential growth curve in population, energy use, and fiat currency printing

Over 3800 fiat currencies have failed throughout history.

Guess how many have succeeded?

Zero

Not a good track record, and we are in uncharted territory, so everyone is guessing a little.

James Galbraith and Robert Kuttner both have said that the US is the borrower of last resort for the entire world, and that David Walker has an incomplete balance sheet to work with; thus, Walker should be ignored.

Check the facts: http://fora.tv/2008/10/20/Why_We_Should_Aband...

The lecture is long but really well worth the listening and he flays Walker alive... and Reagan... and the Free Marketers.

Really good stuff!

Here is one for your files:

The Debt Delusion
By Economist Thomas Palley

http://www.thomaspalley.com/?p=99

Sundog I’m aware of James Galbraith and Robert Kuttner and yes the US is the lender of last resort but that’s not what I’m talking about or the links I presented above. We’re talking about our long term financial obligations that are now starting take affect. The GAO is the oversight to the US government and the congressional watch dog, Walker is blowing the whistle on our government now.

The GAO is the agency that audits the government books (including the IRS) it issues the annual US financial statements. The $53 trillion in baby boomer entitlements has been known about in our government now for many years. It is also no mystery the US government has been writing IOU's on social security for it's own purposes for years, take a close look at the US financial statement at http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d08926t.pdf and you will notice social security is listed as an off budget item.

Specifically on page 16 of the 2007 it states:

The on-budget deficit includes all budgetary accounts other than those designated by law as off-budget. The off-budget accounts are the Postal Service and Social Security trust funds.

It allows politicians to make the economy sound better than it really is, don’t want the public to panic you know over all those IOU’s.

The baby boomers are the largest generation of our times and they are now starting to retire to a significantly smaller Gen X that must hold up their retirement and financial needs. Progressively the numbers will be larger and larger, eventually 75 million boomers will be lining up for an average of a $1000 a month equals $75 billion in social security per month.

Also older people are living longer and their healthcare costs are only going up, I know something of this since the company I work at handles CMS Medicare and Medicaid medical claims, we save the government money on just that issue. Walker is correct, it is not sustainable! Further the ERISA act of 74 requires baby boomers to start taking retirement payments at the age of 70 and half years old, in year 2016 the first baby boomers will start taking payments by law. Where is their retirement? In mutual funds on that sinking brick called the stock market. There are more mutual funds than publically traded companies today, more retirements chasing fewer companies, more sellers than buyers.

I tried to listen to your video link but it had so much jabber in the audio it was impossible to listen for more than a few minutes, the title is “Why We Should Abandon the Free Market”, if that is what they are proposing, all I can say is good luck with that.

Hmm, so it looks like we DO need an Abe Lincoln-sort of president right about now.

Conservatives can go suck ass now.

Well, I'm glad to see that Robini is in agreement with me. I think the Obama stimulus program should be big. I've posted before that every certified American (ove 18 yrs. old) - which is maybe 300 million folks(?), should get a check for $1 Million. If we can give $700 Billion to $2 Trillion to banks and CEO's, we can certainly find $30 billion to distribute to the American people.

That money would get spent - putting the capital immediately back into the economy - not in the pockets of elitist fascists. People would buy homes, and maybe even American-made cars, and invest in new technologies and buy stock and who knows what.

Okay, so maybe $1 million per person won't happen - but if a stimulus is needed - make it worthwhile - no more $300.00 crap. (And there's no need to worry where the money is coming from - it's all created out of thin air anyway, just a figment of our collective imagination.)

Do you know what the people will do with that money? They will pay off their credit cards and cut them up, load up on non-perishable food, and stack the rest under the bed. I can assure you I won't be going shopping for doodads, I'll be dropping it into undervalued safe haven assets.

Every stimulus check we get comes at our tax payer expense, their is no extra reserve, they are simply printing dollars out of think air and this goes to dilute the monetary base and destroys our currency. They gave away free credit and look at the mess it got us in, now they are going to give us free money!?

I can't wait to see what the downside to that is, although I already have a pretty good idea.

30 billion distributed to 300 million people is 100$ a piece. Just a handful of orders of magnitude off.

If that is the number being proposed, that will hardly stimulate me to get up and go to the bank. More importantly, these types of checks are an abuse of our currency and will only serve to create all new problems. We're robbing Peter (who ran out of money a long time ago) to pay Paul.

I care a lot about this issue so I typed out a portion of Mike Maloney’s book “Guide to Investing in Gold and Silver”, the title doesn’t do it justice because it is really more about this crisis and the history of money. It leans heavily on Robert Kiyosaki’s book “Prophesy” written in 2002 which covers the ERISA act of 74 and the problem the baby boomers will cause when they retire. It’s important to note Mike’s book was published on August 28, 2008 before the big stock slide so the 100% dead on detail in which has pegged this crisis to this point is very significant. This is pages 112 to 116.

I didn’t go back to proof the whole thing so forgive any typos.

Soon the world will wake up to the fact that though mortgage backed securities (MBS) are a big problem, there is an even bigger problem looming out there, the zero-down loan. MBS are the big problem for the financial sector. MBS only speed up the global transmission of problems through the banking sector. It’s the zero-down loan that threatens to suck the world economy into a black hole.

In the end, I think we’re in for a wild roller coaster of ride, with a few whipsaws thrown in. First the threat of deflation, followed by real deflation, and then followed by hyperinflation.

This scenario is the one that fulfills predictions made by Robert Kiyosaki, and several other people I have great respect for. I think that our current subprime fiasco will turn into a larger problem than it is now, and as the real estate sector begins to plummet, and the credit currency that was borrowed into existence begins to evaporate, the threat of deflation will loom. Then Ben Bernanke will come to the rescue and bail us out by orchestrating another helicopter drop of currency.

In his book “Rich Dad’s Prophesy”, Robert Kiyosaki predicted that one of the greatest stock market booms in history was yet to come, and would last at least until 2007. This was amazing considering that the book was written back in 2002. The country was still reeling from 9/11 and the financial scandals like Enron, while the Dow was finishing a three-year brutal bear market, and many analysts were predicting a bear market for years to come. But Robert made his ultra-bullish prediction in the midst of all that bearish sentiment based on fundamentals of the baby boom demographics and their retirement needs. The so-called experts called Robert a lunatic. Current events reveal he is a genius.

The day of reckoning will come when the millions of baby boomers reach the age where they have to take mandatory distributions from their IRAs. As they find the investments they were counting on for their retirement, their homes and their IRAs full of mutual funds, have actually lost value, that the amount of stuff they can buy from the proceeds if they sell their home is actually less than when they bought their home. And as they realize their dream of comfortable retirement was just that, a dream, all those baby boomers will get scared and pull in their horns. They will stop spending. They will start selling off their assets. And Rich Dad’s second prophesy, the greatest stock market crash in history, will unfold. More and more boomers will panic and sell. I believe this will also be accompanied by the greatest real estate crash the world has ever seen.

This perfect storm of bankruptcies and foreclosures will cause the currency supply to contract as the giant credit bubble pops, and all those big spenders become big savers. When people save their currency, it stops circulating. The economic engine runs out of oil and the whole thing locks up. This is Bernanke’s worst nightmare. This is real deflation, and poor Ben is about to discover the true scale of the horrors of a credit bubble implosion.

When that happens, Ben “burn the currency” Bernanke will once again send out his armada of money-dropping helicopters, but this time something will be different. Something will have gone horribly wrong. The bombs will have been defused. The Fed will try pumping the banking sector by buying every kind of debt they can get their hands on, but to no avail. They will go to extraordinary measures they had said they were prepared to go to. They will buy every mortgage, MBS, and any other type of debt that panicky investors and banks are trying to sell, but nothing good will come of it. They will start buying stocks to buoy the markets, but retail sales will continue to plunge. They will try broad-based tax cuts, but it won’t jump-start the economy. They will work with foreign central banks to buy each other’s debt, but the global economy will continue to plummet. People will finally see through the veil. They will what Dorothy, the Scarecrow, the Lion, and the Tin Man saw. That the Wizard of Oz is really just a dopey old guy frantically puling levers.

Remember when we talked about how during WWI the Germans increased their currency supply by 400 percent yet there was no price inflation because of the public’s anxiety over the war and the uncertainty of their future? Imagine the anxiety 75 million baby boomers will feel as they approach retirement, only to find their homes and mutual funds are now worth next to nothing. The nest egg, ladies and gentlemen, has just cracked. When they get the tax rebates from Ben, are they going to buy that new big screen TV and the latest cell phone? I think not. I think they are going to save every dime they can get their hands on. Just like in Germany during the war.

But there will be a point at which a threshold is reached. For each income class it will be different. It will be the point where they feel they’ve finally got enough saved for retirement. For some it will be $100,000, for others it will be $1,000,000 and for others still it will be $10,000,000. Ben knows that there is a point where they’ll feel safe enough to replace that aging computer, and maybe get that new TV. At this point the boys at the Fed will buy enough government debt to fund tax rebates for all the taxes paid in the previous year, but still nobody will buy that new car. The threshold the Fed is looking for will not be reached.

[Interjection: I think we are about at this point in the game, Ben is pushing congress to do just this now]

Then in not so quiet desperation, Ben will say, “Screw the helicopters. Send in the bombers.” And as the shadows of millions of stealth currency bombers darken the skies, currency will begin to fall like rain in the desert. As Joe Six-pack and John Q. get tax rebate checks in the mail for all the taxes they paid during their entire lifetimes, fear will be temporarily alleviated and some of that currency will come out of hiding, just as in Weimar Germany. Prices will rise quickly and dramatically as all the stored-up currency energy is released. In a panic, “B2 Ben” (as I predict his new stealth bomber nickname will be) will call back the bombers, but it will be too late. There’s nothing Ben will be able to do to stop it now, because the hyperinflation will have already begun. The Dow will begin an invisible crash of epic proportions, and gold prices will shoot to the moon. If you were wise enough to moor you boat in the safe harbors of gold, silver, and other commodities, you will weather the storm. It won’t be pretty but at least you’ll be safe.

At this point, confidence in currency will fall faster than it can be created. Cost of living will increases for government employees and the cost of all government projects, the subcontractors, the labor, the materials, will all skyrocket. And each time more currency is created to pay for the increases, the value of the currency will fall even faster.

In times like that, governments have only two choices: shut down the government and all of it projects and services, send everybody home without pay, turn off the printing presses, and wait for the free market system to discover levels that account for the quantity of currency in supply; or print the currency into oblivion. Governments have always chosen the latter.

But the stored-up energy of excess currency creation doesn’t have to take place within the United States, and it doesn’t necessarily have to be in the future. In fact, there is an abundance of stored-up currency just waiting to be released right now. As I mentioned earlier, all the dollars we sent overseas to other countries to buy their goods are now sitting in their bank accounts, just waiting to be spent. Eventually, the world economy will lose faith in the U.S. dollar and will want to dump it by buying up goods. This will of course, cause the price of goods to rise, and could, and probably will, trigger a scenario much like the one I have finished describing.

Throughout history economists have suffered from what I like to call “this time syndrome”. This time they’ve become masters of the economic universe. This time they’ve figured it out. This time they’ve tamed the economy. This time they’ve mastered the art of infinite currency amplification. This time a fiat currency will work!

History gives this probability of zero. Each time we sailed toward economic doom the greatest financial minds in the world were at the helm. Do you really think we should continue letting them steer the ship?

Makes alot of sense Vegas.
Sadly, I have to agree with every word. That's some scary stuff man.
I wonder what will happen to all the people on disability and the like?

We're going to have to come up with dynamic ideas or make some terrible choices. I'm guardedly hopeful.

What makes me sad on this post is how few people have commented on it. It is the most important issue facing us and few have any input. Is it because few looked or is because few don't know what to say?

John forgot to turn on this comment earlier Vegas. I'm sure there will be another one later. Same Topic/ later date.

I feel a little better now knowing that, thanks

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