Andrea Mitchell asked a Villager health-care panel on her show today to discuss how Harry Reid can get to 60 votes with the public option since the "Gang of Four" refuses to budge and threatens to kill health-care reform entirely.
Mitchell: And Ruth Marcus, what do they do, how do they water down the public option to make it acceptable to some of the moderates but placate some of the more liberals?
Marcus: Well, it's the "and still placate some of the more liberals" is the hardest part. You're dealing with a very complex Rubik's cube really at this point because every time you change something to please someone, you're annoying someone else and potentially losing his or her vote.
But the public option, I think, could be scaled back. There is already something that Sen. Carper from Delaware is working on in terms of allowing it to take effect perhaps more quickly in states or immediately in states which have very high costs and other states could opt in. There is Sen. Snowe's old trigger option that one could still pull the trigger on, so there are ways of doing it.
I think that in the end it is possible to mollify enough of the centrist Democrats, perhaps even a Republican -- now that seems awfully remote. The president, I think, is going to have to tell the left wing of his party and the balking liberal Senators that it is crazy to pull down the entirety of health care over this one issue which the president has already said is not the be all end all of health reform.
It's always the liberals who need to compromise their positions to the conventional wisdom of the Villagers. The Gang of Four are all righteous and virtuous while liberals are out-of-control hippies who act like barking dogs. How dare they want to produce a real reform measure that could eventually provide true competition for the health care industry and that will help lower overall health care costs? Outrageous!
Remember, Marcus was being a concern troll the day after America elected Obama to the presidency with a mandate to overhaul health care and wrote a column telling him to not to govern from the left.
Yet the experience of President Bill Clinton's rocky early months -- remember gays in the military? the BTU tax? -- suggests the steep political price of governing in a way that is, or seems, skewed to the left. This risk is particularly acute for Obama, whose opponents have painted him as a leftist extremist. The good news is that his advisers seem exquisitely aware of this trap and determined not to fall into it.
The standard lie about Clinton's failures aside (it was NAFTA, stupid), the last sentence is particularly odd. Obama's "opponents have painted him as a leftist extremist." Yet, that supposed "leftist extremist" won the largest presidential mandate in the last generation.
And somehow, having done that, we are supposed to believe that means he should tack to the right.
Say what?
Email Marcus and ask her why the Gang of Four aren't the real problem, since 56 other Senators are fine with the public option: marcusr@washpost.com
If that means a crappy bill doesn't pass, so be it.
What's that? Single payer was never even on the table?? Nevermind..
This really pi..es me off... Nothing they have in the corporate health written bill was done for any liberal or as far as that goes ,,""65 percent"" of Americans wanted a strong public option..
These arrogant elitist democrats which have taken control of the democrat party are no different than the republicans which have passed polices for the benefit of these global empires..
If you remember the liberals which wanted the single payer option showed up at the first meeting of the corporate-republican-blue dog health opt and they called the police to take them out.
As and after these liberals were taken out the committee laughed at them and the single payer option and said that there was no way in h... they would even consider IT>>
I will not vote for any of the arrogant corporate republican democrats which are voting for this corporate written health bill.. If does nothing but raise the rates of our policy , while cutting tests and the types of drug you receive while FORCING you to buy their outrages policy or be fine or go to jail for not paying for a health policy or the fine they charge you so they can give it to the health empires...
I tell you one thing , the democrats should have passed legislation which would have created jobs for Americans and than they might have been able to buy the policies they wish.
They should have started pulling soldiers from Iraq as soon as Obama took office as he PROMISED..
At $1,000,000 a soldier that would have paid for the health care and created jobs for the unemployed..
The government is in the process of transferring all government jobs including the military to the private sector like Halliburton and Blackwater.
Our democrats will agree with this process because democrats like Feinstein's husband and others are the war contractors which receive the tax funds they give for the war..
And this d... paygo word which Emanuel & Obama has injected as a criteria for passing any social program is a bunch of crap.
When they passed the bailout with NO restrictions or oversight for the trillion of dollars in welfare taxes the gave to the banks.
They passed the budget while over 54 percent goes to the military with NO PAYGO clause to be meet.. Than after they pass the budget with the military budget they come up with a supplement military funds of over $100 billion dollars and there is nothing to balance.. They do not have a paygo criteria for passing the tax funds they send to Israel , Saudi Arabia and other foreign countries...
And of course where was the paygo for GM while and after the democrats gave them our taxes... I tell you want happen they outsourced more American jobs while cutting their workers jobs , benefit and wages..
Where was the paygo for the clunker deal.. If benefits were mostly went for profits of overseas car manufacturers. They were very happy with the money the government gave them , they did not even have to give buyers the usual cuts in prices they give at the middle and end of the year to get the old cars off their lots..>>
By the way where was the paygo item for the $300 million Landrieu from La... Landrieu bitch about the health bill and the cost it would be to tax payers , but has no problems when Reid give her this money for her... The Republican governor of LA also says thanks for the $300 million dollars they have been given..
Landrieu statement.......for the $300 million..
http://landrieu.senate.gov/releases/09/2009B2...
Our State is still as poor as it was, if not poorer as a consequence of those devastating storms. I am not going to be defensive about asking for help in this situation. It is not a $100 million fix, it is a nearly $300 million fix. It is the No. 1 request of my Governor who is a Republican. He explicitly asked that I pursue these funds. It is unanimously supported by every Member of our delegation, Democratic and Republican. I am proud to have asked for it. I am proud to have fought for it. I will continue to. But that is not the reason I am moving to debate.
None
She also on the floor went into some detail about how the income averages used to determine Medicaid help for a state were skewed upwards as a result of the jobs and other revenues that came to the state in response to Katrina and that therefore Medicaid payments were decreased. It sounded fairly convincing when she explained, though perhaps doesn't really hold water.
Excellent post. The idea that single payer/expanding Medicare for all is some sort of 'extreme left' idea and that enriching the private health care sector even further, with no significant caps on premiums, etc, is 'centrist' is so ludicrous, yet so pervasive, I could spit!
When 70% of the people want serious change and the 'liberal' democrats can't deliver, it's really lights out America. Of course, health care is only one example among many that show how deeply corrupt our crony system of capitalism has become. The only way out is to vote out the corrupted, but people are too busy being afraid of sara palin to worry about what the dems are doing to them.
get your morning dose of tom toles and move on.
washpost blows chunks
I have no reason to vote democratic... and I won't... across the board.
Bush may have been the dumbest and worst president ever... but he got his shit done and steam rollered the Dumbocrats to do it.
So wrecking the country until it is almost impossible to recognize is considered a success? That sounds like saying, well he shot and killed two dozen people but you have to admit the dude was a good shot.
Having said that, I understand your point so please don't do any smiteing or anything from your heavenly spaghetti platter.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
So your option is to vote for people that, instead of providing health care for poor people, would fund research to find a way to turn them into an inexpensive fuel for their doomsday devices?
The solution is to vote MORE lefties in, not stop voting for the ones already in power, this "gang of four" should be voted out and replaced with people who actually want what is best for the people of the U S and A.
"I could give a flying crap about the political process.... We're an entertainment company."
- Glenn Beck - Forbes interview; April 26, 2010
Damn the Cuyahoga. Full burn ahead!
" it is a sign of what happens when you have Chicago-style politics, and the president of the United States and his political minions are, in essence, using our tax dollars to buy corporate advertising"
Karl "Unindicted" Rove
your inference that the democrats have gotten nothing done compared to Bush is complete bullshit.
for the Democrats to even take on health reform in this environment is incredibly admirable. If there is no public option they will still have gotten +35 million more Americans insured and stopped the insurance companies from dropping or refusing people for pre-existing conditions and they will have created exchanges which should create more competition. This is truely historic for the Democrats to have gotten this far. You would have gotten nothing from the Republicans on healthcare.
The Democrats have done a significant number of things on the economy. They passed the largest stimulus bill in history that included the largest tax cut for the middle class in history. The stimulus has been instrumental in helping to bring economic growth back. It has helped the states in a huge way and kept many teachers, policemen, etc in work. As much as you may have hated the bail-out of the financial system, it did stop the financial systems tail spin.
Bailing out Detroit was also huge. It has help communities across the country, given the a lot more dealships would have been shut down and is helping the midwest and stabilizing an important part of the manufacturing base of this country.
The Democrats are taking completely new approaches to foreign policy. It is completely night and day from Bush. They are focusing on Afghanistan and trying to come up with real solutions instead of ignoring that situation for 8 years as Bush did.
We have got immigration and the environment next.
By the way you say that Bush got things done. What exactly did he get done? He did exactly nothing for the economy in the 8 year he was in charge. Bush really did nothing other than a big war in Iraq and some tax cuts for the rich. Bush reallly did nothing.
Obama and the democrats have done an incredible amount in just 10 months.
.
.
" it is a sign of what happens when you have Chicago-style politics, and the president of the United States and his political minions are, in essence, using our tax dollars to buy corporate advertising"
Karl "Unindicted" Rove
.
I'll get back to you when I finish talking to Olympia.
" it is a sign of what happens when you have Chicago-style politics, and the president of the United States and his political minions are, in essence, using our tax dollars to buy corporate advertising"
Karl "Unindicted" Rove
that is, if you don't mention:
use of state secrets
use of indefinite detention
support for warrantless wiretapping
use of military tribunals
use of predator drone
continued rendition
further denial of habeas corpus
Bagram as the new gitmo
same position on polar bears (and salmon runs)
kept bernake (not to mention tapping geithner [former NYFEd])
and this was just shooting from the hip
obama has done some great things, that is for sure. but to pretend that he his admin is "night and day from bush" is just plain wrong.
great you can make a list of things you would like to see changed. Big deal.
It will take time to change some of this stuff and most of it is likely in a holding pattern until the Obama adminstration can figure out what to do about them, which applies to the first two-thirds of your list and you will not likely get everything you want. I hardly think Obama and the democrats have the same position on polar bears or the environment. And nothing wrong with Bernake and Geitner, these guys have been doing an incredible job at getting this country back to growth. To go from a diving economy heading to a great depression to 3% GDP growth in less than a year is amazing.
The bigger picture has clearly changed and the adminstration has done an incredible amount in such a short period of time with just about the worst cards you could possibly be dealt.
big deal? wow...
habeas corpus. indefinite detention. predator drones. ya know the list that stuff you don't care about. you might not think so, but these things are intensely critical. downplay these things, but do so at your own credibility. and, these are not issues that the obama admin simply has yet to address, these are issues that the obama admin has come out and fully supported bush policies on.
"I hardly think Obama and the democrats have the same position on polar bears or the environment"
"The Obama administration will retain a Bush-era rule for polar bears, Interior Secretary Ken Salazar announced Friday, in a move that angered activists who noted the rule limits what can be done to protect the species from global warming. "
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30635672/
You will never be satified... just might as well go shot yourself right now..
nice, what are you 12?
Just because Obama did not decide to use the Endangered Species Act as a means to control carbon emissions means
he favors Bush policies in that area. You and MSNBC are playing games by saying that not using the status of the Polar Bear as a means to adopt sweeping policy changes he is trying to get through Congress equates to favoring Bush policies.
Misuse of the Endangered Species Act by activists has severely eroded support for species protection and empowered the right in lots of places.
" it is a sign of what happens when you have Chicago-style politics, and the president of the United States and his political minions are, in essence, using our tax dollars to buy corporate advertising"
Karl "Unindicted" Rove
no mocking pseudo-joke of a post?
weird...
Sasha, does your daddy know you are using the computer this afternoon?
Just kidding Phillip1, please just smile and don't get angry.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
did i lie? was it unfair? am i wrong? i don't get it....
They have handed over $17 trillion to the Banksters.
The '3% growth' is pure happy talk.
This is a Plutonomy.
You are smoking something funny there…
statusquObama, change you can only pretend in
.. and the fact that, other than a few key appointments, Obama kept the entire Bush Dept of Justice .. which explains why investigations (let alone prosecutions) of Bush DoJ misdeeds are off the table ..
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
It is not the President's job to make changes at the Department of Justice. In fact, Obama has said that the President will no longer politicize the Justice Department like the Bush Admin did. He will have a hands off approach. The only job of Obama's is to appoint Holder. Holder is a completely different Attorney General than what we had under Bush. Completely different mentality.
Holder is making the changes at the department. Some of the stuff he is about to do on civil rights will be game changing. He is doing a complete justice department revamp, prefering experience over political connections. In addition, he reopened the investigation into CIA torture actions. Took a lot of balls to do that.
And it is still early in the game on what will come out of investigations of torture. Once you start the investigation you open a can of worms so you do not know where this will lead.
Anyone who claims there's "no difference" between the parties or that the Dems having accomplished anything is speaking from plain ignorance....both of what the parties stand for and what has actually been accomplished to date this year in Congress in terms of legislation.
But it's nice to hear these canards because it shows that ignorance can exist on all sides.
but I'm conviced that most of those "there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans" comments are mostly concern trolling rather than stupidity.
I credit left wing internet guerillas for doing enough of that kind of concern trolling on conservative blog sites to give Democrats a victory in NY District 23 a few days ago. ;D
Did not pay attention to Bush/Cheney and their lies and BS to start the illegal war in Iraq:
Their cutting on the tax on the top 10 percent of Americans:
Their helping in the outsourcing of American manufacturing plants and jobs overseas;
Their corrutped no bid contracts in the war contracts and the mercenary army:
Their pertaining to be patriotic to our soldiers while not supplying them with the best of armor and equipment to fight with..
Rumsfeld would travel in the Equipment used by the mercenary army , which was paid 10 times the amount given to our soldiers.
Hell Halliburton sub companies , overcharged for the gas and food they supplied to OUR soldiers. They received the pay for the same contract two times and keep the money..
They took away all oversight from the banks and now we are living in the disaster from all their criminal activities created by their administratin...
WHERE IN THE HELL WERE ALL THE REPUBLICANS WHEN THESE CRIMINAL CRIMES AND ATTACKS ON OUR ECONOMY , DEMOCRACY , FREEDOM , MILITARY AND SOCIAL PROGRAMS WERE HAPPENING IN THE PAST 8 YEARS OF REPUBLICAN AND BUSH'S DICTATORIAL DOMINATION OF OUR COUNTRY.
Stick your heads back in the sand where they have been for the last 8 years.
No Obama is listening too d... much to arrogant Emanuel , blue dogs and the centrists which have taken over the dmeocratic party , but they have yet to follow the treason , torture and criminal crimes of Bush and his criminal mob , which looks as if they were selected from the Mafia of the 1920's and 1930's..
None
And that is just for starters, god forbid dirty hippy liberals want health insurance for all. If I had a dollar for everytime I've been called a leftie liberal!!!! Exactly what does that mean? Should I be offended? Is this the new "either your against us or with us"
You mean, "You are either with us or you are with the terrorists"?
In this case the "terrorists" are those senators who are going against the will of the American People.
I believe the latest poll on a "robust" public option was well over 50%.
In any case, we are about to be screwed big time by the party of "change" regardless of what the vote is.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
It is all bullshit. These hold-outs don't give a shit about the public option. At most the public option will insure a few million Americas. It is likely to be so small as to not really matter. All these hold-outs care about is the horse trading. What can they get for their vote? A promise of advertising money from the democratic party to support their re-election. A hand-out for their state. A personal guarantee that they will not be challenged in a primary, etc. etc. These are the worst kind of politicians. Just thinking how they can use the situation to benefit themselves instead of the greater good.
Basically they are holding health care for Americans hostage. They really should be ashamed and be punished in the next election by the voters.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Especially as it pertains to Lincoln and Landrieux.
" it is a sign of what happens when you have Chicago-style politics, and the president of the United States and his political minions are, in essence, using our tax dollars to buy corporate advertising"
Karl "Unindicted" Rove
Ms Landrieux seems to have gotten a big pocket of change for her vote last Saturday night, but I will cut her some slack due to the fact her state is still in ruins in some places due to the aftermath of Katrina.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Landrieux should be selling healthcare reform instead of shitting on it. Her state has about the worst healthcare in the country. If she does not get re-elected so be it. Somethings are more important in life.
Ms. Mary's margin of victory in her re-election effort now lives in Houston.
And it wasn't because of Katrina. It was the Corps of Engineers.
" it is a sign of what happens when you have Chicago-style politics, and the president of the United States and his political minions are, in essence, using our tax dollars to buy corporate advertising"
Karl "Unindicted" Rove
If she votes against healthcare the democrats should challenge her in a primary.. she has to know she has more to lose for not voting for healthcare. So what, exchange Landrieux's seat for Vitter's. It is not clear Vitter will get re-elected.
"If she votes against healthcare the democrats should challenge her in a primary."
Uh...you're aware that she's not up for re-election until 2014? Unfortunately, a primary challenge is about the last thing she has to worry about.
they snipped the pony tails and traded it in for Corporate America a long time ago.
Ironic considering that if it wasn't for LBJ's Great Society it wouldn't have been possible for them to drop out of school, spend ten years living in a nudist colony commune growing organic pot, then go back to community college to get a degree in programming at age 30, and ultimatley make millions in software engineering market. Then go all Establisment, and pull the ladder to Nirvana up behind themselves by cutting funding for colleges and social programs.
I might be an old hippie chick, but I am not dirty. I have some new liquid shower soap that smells like chocolate covered cherries. I could spend hours in the shower with that fragrance floating around. So I resent the "dirty" part.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Even have a bottle of Dr. Bronner's sitting around somewhere.
Be careful with the Dr. Bronner's if it's transferred to a push pump!
I went to wash my hands a few months ago and the pump had clogged just enough that I got a straight shot of peppermint Dr. Bronner's right in my freakin' eye!!!
'Twas a quite unpleasant situation....
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
with water, 3 or 4 parts water to soap. I use distilled usually just on a hunch that it allows the soap to work better. Plus the stuff lasts longer.
Be as you wish to seem
My boyfriend (a republican but he cooks so what can you do?) calls me a 'bleeding heart liberal' but I think he leaves off the dirty part because I keep buying the rosemary scented body wash ;)
There are liberal males out there who can cook. I know, I married one. Keep an eye out for one of those treasures. :)
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
thanks Pop but I think I'll keep working on my little republican - I think he's trainable ie he watches Keith and Rachel with me
Do you have to watch Beck and BillO with him? Does he understand how a washer and an iron work?
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Fortunately (for me) I'm currently off the market.
Culinary classes.
" it is a sign of what happens when you have Chicago-style politics, and the president of the United States and his political minions are, in essence, using our tax dollars to buy corporate advertising"
Karl "Unindicted" Rove
I'm too young to be a hippie, but I did make the mistake of covering myself with chocolate covered cherries once. That WAS dirty...
You should have called me. That's my favorite candy and I would never consider it "dirty".
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
...should not have to acquiesce or compromise shit right now. Sometimes, I wish we would be as bull headed as the conservatives in times like these. If so, we would've have a single payer plan on Obama's desk four months ago.
Weiner should have forced a vote on the Single Payer amendment if for no other reason than just so we could have had the debate and vote.
Enough Americans were clamoring for it and Pelosi PROMISED.
Every other industrialized country honors their citizens right to life and health care....except the United States. But the Pentagon will get every war/bullet/tank/jet/aircraft carrier/gun and soldier that it wants.
It's okay for our country to murder thousands of innocent civilians in a completely illegal and immoral Shock and Awe military campaign, but it's not okay to use our tax dollars so we can have quality access to affordable health care.
What's wrong with this picture, folks?
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
"This risk is particularly acute for Obama, whose opponents have painted him as a leftist extremist"
As opposed to other Democratic Presidents,whom the Republicans simply refused to paint as far left extremists.
Refused I tell ya.
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
.
I will reply to your little "." hoping it's not off subject and mostly because it looks kinda lonely there without any buddy words to keep it company.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I also fully agree with the "." and would like to add my own "." Couldn't have put it any better...
Beck is about to blow a gasket right now telling his viewers that health care reform is just the first step in the government trying to control everything you do and rationing everything for Americans. I guess Beck never had to make a decision to not buy something or not do something. The word rationing is not a four letter word. We ration shit every day of our lives. We make decisions about what we feel we can afford and what we can't. At least most of us do.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
(YouTube) - Howard Dean Agrees With Sen. Sanders: Kill Health Reform Bill Without a Public Option
(HuffPo) - Bernie Sanders Pushes Back On Public Option
(CommonDreams) - Single Payer Activists to Congress: Defeat Democratic Health Bill
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
FINALLY!!!!
SOME GOOD NEWS!!!!
THANKS FOR THIS!!!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Before they hold that press conference, I hope they'll have a convincing answer ready for how single payer will get the votes of Lieberman, Nelson, Lincoln and Landrieu. If they balk at even a public option, what do you think they'd do with single payer!
Single payer will have its day. But it needs to be the subject of a massive and protracted campaign of information to the American public. Something progressives are lousy to date at doing.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_conten...
First, while Rasmussen is solid in its presidential polling, it has not been the most reliable when dealing with domestic issues. But even so, the public will judge the Bill not so much when it's passed, but whether it actually does deliver what it claims to do. And whether or not the average person feels there are important things in it for them.
That's how the Dems will sell the Bill, by the way. And once a Bill is passed, you'll see a bump in the positives, even in a Rasmussen poll.
And let's remind the public that finally we're taking some steps out of the 20th century and into the 21st century, where we can begin to join all the other industrialized countries on this subject.
Seriously didn’t the democrats get over the filibuster threat afew days ago? Why the hell does we need 60 votes again?
Any final vote on a Bill is subject to filibuster. But the conference Bill would not be.
Interesting item on the news. There are Democrats in the Senate who are seriously considering some legislation or rules to begin to limit the overall use and ABUSE of the filibuster.
The Public Option has already been watered down so much that it is becoming nothing but an empty symbol....probably of progressive "hopes". By this point in time, I can support darn near anything because it will all be about the same in the long run (or short run). But this is also a golden opportunity to really
hold the insurance companies feet to the fire because they've gotten about everything they want. And their profits, and their premiums, will be public knowledge.
What sways me most in my thinking is the fact that we are getting a degree of systemic change. Not the biggest element(s) but nonetheless it has now been shown that the desire for some kind of reform is there, and that taking further steps will be so much easier because of what's been done.
Finally, we'll have no real impact on health care costs - public option or not - unless and until we tackle some very thorny issues, including things such as fee for service, "defensive" medecine, the
imbalance between primary care and specialists, redundancy in services, etc. Including perhaps coming to an understanding that we can't afford to give all the treatment that we now give to seniors in their final months (cf 60 Minutes segment Sunday on this very point).
those four senators out of the sixty are 6.66%.
6.66% are holding health care hostage.
Mmmm, important number. I know! They're the Anti-Christ! Let's sic the fundy right on 'em.
Well, Ruth Carlson can suck it.
If he were alive today, Jesus would be called a "dirty hippy liberal" by the right-wingers.
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