Why aren't there hundreds of economists on my TV explaining the stimulus package?
By John Amato Wednesday Feb 04, 2009 2:00pmI'm sure you've heard about the hundreds of economists that are either for or against President Obama's stimulus plan. My question to the media is: Where are they? Thankfully, Paul Krugman goes on THIS WEEK and usually destroys the panel when they regurgitate disingenuous economic talking points that they probably don't understand.
But that's not enough. One man can't do it. FOX seems to depend on Dick Morris as their economic consultant, so we know where they stand on this issue, but enough already.
Why do I have to see Republican and Democratic consultants (whatever that means) debate the same points over and over again on every show throughout the day? Why doesn't CNN, MSNBC, FOX, ABC, CBS, CNBC and NBC reach out and invite panels of economists on to discuss this important issue? Where are they hiding?
The networks like to have the same tired debate format with the same hired analysts debating with "sound and fury" that usually "signifies nothing" to most of America. Last week the media chose to have Republicans like John Boehner, who helped create the situation we're in, dominate the airwaves, which does nothing but muddy up the discussion on our rapidly failing economy. And which leads Villagers like Chuck Todd to proclaim that Republicans have won the spin wars. It's a "spending bill" now.
Chuck Todd just said that the Republicans have won the spin war on the recovery bill and says that Claire McCaskill even admitted it when she said the Democrats had larded the bill up with spending. He says it's now known as a "spending bill" not a stimulus bill. (He doesn't say "who" now sees it that way.) But I would guess it's gasbags like Matthews who are going on and on about condoms and wondering how the Democrats didn't understand that their job is to write a Republican bill.
Why is it called a "spending bill"? Because the Villagers have decided that the Republicans have won the PR war over the stimulus package. How does that tired argument help this country in a time of crisis? I know the spin wars play a role when messaging is concerned because Americans get a lot of their news through the TV and the elitists get aroused by all this nonsense, but it's killing us. Please Stop It. C&L has often documented how the media tries to elect our politicians, (They chose Bush over Gore, How did that work out?) but now they are trying to decide how this very important stimulus package will be dealt with.
I wish part of the stimulus plan included money to be sent to the failing print journalism industry so good journalists can keep reporting on things of substance which the public desperately needs. If the networks are forced to lay off 20% of their on-air news departments (I would hope not) because of bad revenues, then maybe they will start to treat this bill seriously.
Please, where's the meat? Stop playing games with our lives. Put people on who can explain it coherently. Economics is complicated. Sound bites aren't enough. Obama was elected to bring change to the economy, not to debate the merits of tax cuts all over again. We had that discussion for 18 months and Obama won. Tax cuts lost. Why is the media ignoring that fact? John McCain ran on tax cuts to save us and he lost. Now he's telling his supporters that he's going to vote NO on the stimulus plan and wants them to sign a petition. You lost the election badly. Democrats have solid majorities everywhere you look, but not when it comes to the media that is supposed to inform us and not play "spin wars' with the country.
Finally President Obama is telling it like it is:
In the past few days, I've heard criticisms that this [stimulus] plan is somehow wanting, and these criticisms echo the very same failed economic theories that led us into this crisis in the first place, the notion that tax cuts alone will solve all our problems, that we can ignore fundamental challenges like energy independence and the high cost of health care, that we can somehow deal with this in a piecemeal fashion and still expect our economy and our country to thrive.
I reject those theories. And so did the American people when they went to the polls in November and voted resoundingly for change.
Chuck Todd reports that the Republicans want more tax cuts in the stimulus. Who gives a damn except the Villagers?
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The mainstream media is the propaganda division of the corporations that run our country, just as the Republican party is their political arm. We cannot continue to pretend that these kinds of phenomena are the result of incompetence. They're not. They're deliberate.
In the short term, Obama needs to encourage the application of existing anti-trust laws against media monopolies, break them up and make the media independent again. Rupert Murdoch can suck on it.
In the long term, we need Campaign Finance Reform in order to remove the influence of corporate money in Congress. K Street can suck on it.
But media imbalance is NOT an accident, it's deliberate, with the goal of reinforcing corporate policies.
Media consolidation has been a disaster for the country. Obama must break up the large media corporations or suffer the consequences.
the DLC, DSCC and DCCC. That rounds out the membership of the corporate political arm.
I'm tired of writing the same thing over and over again.
The deck is stacked.
In Australia, you never see a roundtable of corporate shills. There are shows (like "Q and A") where politicians, experts and advocates discuss issues AND the public is allowed to question them directly.
But on ABC and SBS, you'll see lengthy interviews with economists, for example, last night Robert Shiller from Yale was on Lateline.
Have a look at abc here: http://www.abc.net.au/tv/video/program.htm
Of particular note, a show called "Mediawatch" where they call out the media on it's bullshit. You could do a two-hour show like this every day in the States.
Wether by design or not, that's what's happening all right, and Wolf is trapped in the phantom zone, poor guy...
Wether by accident or not it is now ruining democracy.
And their idiotic rhetoric started to make me feel nauseated so I cut it off.
Now I realize one of the major reasons I spend my Sunday mornings rocking and watching the birds while sipping some good coffee. These people make me SICK.
Why does he continue with Paulson's plunder?
Why does he not excoriate the Corporations receiving public money about their continued lobbying and seek formally to forbid it.
Golden handcuffs, not Golden Parachutes for the swindlers.
The government is finishing the scam the swindlers began.
Providing stimulus to an economy undermined so severely by the vast sums of the 'bailouts' is like paddling a canoe with large holes in the bottom.
You make tedious progress for a while and then you sink.
n/t
Exactly. And now they are using the Repub tactic of fear. That 2 million jobs went to 2.5, then 3, then 4, and now today:
By the time it's passed, it will put every American, now and future, to work. Enough. Like John says. Bring some honesty to the debate and some real experts.
only this time its not 9-11 chanting, its economic catastrophe he's shilling...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/04/obam...
more of the same, more of the same.
My first thoughts exactly.
..but I'm way more worried about my paycheck than I am about the next terrorist attack.
I hear ya John. Get some people on tv who actually know about this stuff and not just some talking heads who haven't a fu*king clue but do like the sound of their own voices.
Everyone is an expert on every topic these days. Scarborough, Cokie Roberts, Pat Buchanan and list could go on forever. I want to hear Krugman talk, not be interrupted by just one more talking head.
Chuck Todd has become David Gregory Jr. Back when he began, I liked the guy but as of late he's just like all the rest.
Yeah it's scary how quickly he got absorbed into the washington machine - better at crunching numbers than white house correspondent.
He would have been better off to have continued to learn from Russert. Russert wasn't perfect by a long shot, but he was better than Gregory.
Intelligent and Investigative Journalism needs to make a comeback in this Country if we are going to succeed.
I agree! We need true reporting without any bias!
But, a few reporters who still have the tradition of trying would be nice.
Do these bobble heads hear themselves?? The one old fart wants them to go out and spend....."enduce spending.." The other hp failure chick wants them to solve the credit crisis....do talk to the banks. They are the ones refusing the loans to buy their new fleet of jets and take their Vegas junkets.
Honest to God...can any of them accept that they CAN LEARN FROM Krugman a few things or two? NO!! They just want to spew their bull shit that is total superficial nonsense.
TV cable news is all re-runs - no new content - no new actors - been there, done that. Time for re-tooling.
They say they expect an open and transparent presidency now, and their gonna keep them honest. I say i expect an open and transparent accounting of the past eight years.
The MSM helped Bushco in its rise and in its acts.
They are as guilty as the evil they failed to report on.
Why bother watching cable "news"?
It isn't even news, it's either gruesome voyeurism or political gossip. What's the point?
How many times in one day do I need to see Pat Robertson, or any of the blathering pretty bobble heads that can't seem to do anything but regurgitate RNC talking points?
I'm over it.
Amen.
Somebody's gonna have to step up and tell the repugs, talking heads, et al to STFU on the tax break bizness.
Got it! This is a very important post by Mr. Amato as is the previous post. What we need to do is contact our respective Senators, Reps, The Office of President Obama, every news outlet and let our voices, concerns, frustrations be heard. The incessant drum beat from the Right and the MSM needs to be drowned out and NOW. IF the past 8 years isn't a clue that our party needs to regroup and start speaking out again I don't know what is. How much further in the tank does America need to go? We all got off our respective asses and campaigned for Obama now let's get off our respective asses and speak louder than the Right. What ever we need to do let's get it done! DEMAND THE CHANGES, We still have a voice, let's make sure it's heard. If anyone has other ideas or places we can go to let our voices drown them out please share that info
Tell Nancy P to sell her jet and tell Obama to fire all the x CEOs that work for him, and that now is not the time for him to buy a new fleet of limos and jets. Then tell the Sen. to Reduce thier pay which has just tripled!
Spending is STIMULUS... that's how you STIMULATE the economy is by spending the money... so by saying it is a spending bill they are just describing it very perfectly... they just don't realize it...
Pres. Obama reminded me today of when the Lipstick on a pig deal came up last year... he was pissed off today and said...
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!
Wrong.
Spending what you actually have is stimulus.
Spending what you don't have is DEBT ACCUMULATION.
and we are already in debt trillions of dollars. Thats if the numbers are accurate, why wouldn't they be, the government doesn't lie.
Tell me, where is all this money going to come from? What foreign nation/investors are going to be our hero and buy our debt?
Spending money we don't have is nothing but a tax increase - with interest - for ourselves later, or on future generations.
How long do you think it will take to repay tens of trillions in debt - with an economy optimistically growing at most 2-3% a year?
> Tell me, where is all this money going to come from?
We'll get it the same way we recovered all the money that left the country during the coke boom of the 80s.
Sometime in the next 40 years, we will "liberate" China and "recover" the bonds they hold.
Basically, we'll run the Panama deception program on Beijing.
Or, behind door number two, the money will come from increased efficiencies and opportunities created by prudent investment of the borrowed money in worthwhile infrastructure and product manufacturing.
Reduced energy and transportation costs, increased efficiencies and innovative new products will provide the profit to repay the loan we're taking out. Like any other business loan, except in the trillions.
All it takes is a little prudence and...oh, who the hell am I kidding? Let me see that Panama folder again...
and lets wait until it costs much more...that makes sense
8 years of bush and the crime syndicate allowing for mismanagement and waste
have you checked out the fda?
how much is it going to cost in law suits and health care for all the people made ill by tainted food???
think belt tightening is gonna fix that
and what of the va...which now has a 6 month backlog in disability and other benefits payments....what do you thing the cost of that is going to be
wanna tackle the deficit? attach all of the bush's and cheney's assets
they must pay a price for the shit they have left us all in
send both families to the poor house
i wanna see bush and his fucking twin brats standing in front of my local 7/11 begging for cigarettes
...very true.
You are not going to stimulate the ecomony with money you have taken out of the economy in the form of deficit spending.
In this instance, the only worth while tool we have is to cut government spending by 20% to 30% and reduce both corporate and individual taxes.
ex animo
davidfarrar
Are those pampered 'cradle to grave' fed,state,city employees going to take their medicine like the rest of us and go quietly to the soup kitchen lines... I don't think so.
Asousley why don't you do that, and tell us how it works out after you are left with nothing but debt.
If this package includes taxing Oil companies, hedge fund managers, and war profiteers, then it would be perfect.
The best of all possible worlds?
Well said!
Our job out here is to expand the narrative. Maybe we need to feature economists on our blogs (light bulb just went off!) who will either do guest posts or a indepth Q&A that bridges some of the gap between what we don't understand and what the government (including you, Mr. O, although you are still my guy) isn't doing a very good job of helping us understand beyond a 10th grade econ level.
I swear our TV and print friends must have a hat that they are allowed to draw topics from, and a pair of dice that they are allowed to use to determine the scope of their articles.
I assume that this is a rhetorical question, but I'll bite anywise: They do it because thay are propagandists who work on behalf of the cause of neo-feudal and totalitarian fascism. The corporations that run these propaganda networks view themselves as being the up and coming aristocratic houses in their new world order. They must lie and deceive in order to seduce the People into supporting positions which harm them
Probably the only way to stop this, because it is questionable whether Obama is ever even going to address it, is for a campaign - similar to a petition drive - to sue these corporations for RICO fraud and wire fraud on grounds of a continuing enterprise to defraud the public. A couple 5-6 million complainants demanding that the DoJ prosecute them should do the trick. It's easy enough to satisfy all the hurdles required to proceed with a RICO suit/prosecutorial action. It's a time to do it, if for no other reason than nothing else will.
Are hopeless.
They'd rather chatter about the woman who gave birth to 8 babies.
The exceptions are Keith and Rachel. At least they try to educate and inform their viewers. But the rest of the MSNBC line up is pretty lame.
When I'm home in the afternoon, MSNBC is awash with chatterboxes who don't know EBITA from FICA.
The press is supposed to be the watchdog for the government. That is why it is mentioned in the Constitution. Instead of being the watchdogs, they turned into the lapdogs. Woe is us.
It's about entertainment and not about news or America. It has been about entertainment ever since Fox News showed up.
America has shown for 2 elections cycles now that it has caught on. Hopefully, they will continue to see the BS. If they don't, the Nation is over and we can just start over.
But why 5 million of us aren't marching on DC is just sad.
I think you give them 2 much credit. LOL
this is not wpa part deux...although it should be
this may be the most transparent spending bill ever created (cuz neither dems nor repugs had midnight sessions shoving shit onto it) but much of it does not create immediate jobs
the wpa created jobs
most of the stuff in this bill is needed and is positive...but it shouldnt have been placed in this bill
are the dems totally brain dead?? have they all of a sudden forgotten that there is a wingnut echo chamber?
sure, talking points arent coming from the wh anymore...but they are coming from the rnc
rnc to rush to hannity and then to everyone else
take out everything but the tax cuts, infrastructure and real job creation programs...then let the ahole repugs scream that we dont have the money to repair, build and expand infrastructure and that the gov never created a single job in the history of the world...they will look like fucktards
remove everything else
then create bills that deal with those issues
the end of the huge omnibus bills needs to begin today
this bill proves it.
Leopards cannot change their spots, not when there are 'masters' behind the scenes with blackmail dossiers and fat wallets.
for the home team.
But not if it's doing something stupid.
Like spending first, for political reasons, and thinking critically afterwards.
i heard someone bitchin on hannity today about the fact that cali is getting an extremely large portion of the "bailout"
well fuck ya
first, we pay the most into the fed
second, bush allowed corporations like enron to rape us
we deserve it
fuck kansas
we're fucked.
in federal income tax, California gets back $1.00 from the federal government.
You have a right to bitch.
Unemployed people paying fed income tax on Californian money. That must be a net flow out of Cali.
things are just going to have to get much worse before anyone starts taking this seriously.
A lot of people are going to be hurting for a long time.
Exactly!
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/02/pre...
Seems plenty of economists are unhappy with the plan that's been put forth so far.
Too much is being done to HIDE the real depths of the problem.
From Martin Wolf, Why Davos Man is waiting for Obama to save him
Instead of an overwhelming fiscal stimulus, what is emerging is too small, too wasteful and too ill-focused. Instead of decisive action to recapitalise banks, which must mean temporary public control of insolvent banks, the US may be returning to the immoral and ineffective policy of bailing out those who now hold the “toxic assets”.
emphasis added
And Yves Smith shreds the new plan: The Bad Bank Assets Proposal: Even Worse Than You Imagined
[T]his program is a crock ... it has [been] cooked up in the complete and utter absence of any serious due diligence on the toxic holdings of the big banks.
Exactly. Get in there and find out what they are holding. If the banks are insolvent, Nationalize Preprivatize them.
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The talking heads on TV and in Congress have no real clue about the
enormity of these problems, all the loan pyramids - banks loaning to banks, all the stupid risk taking and speculation by the creeps in the Wall Street investment houses creating what I heard described as Phantom wealth.
The banks are insolvent - yew betcha - that's why the Fed won't divulge
how much they've given and to whom. Nationalization and control of the banks wold be a start. But, I'm no economist.....
The banking interests and the families who control them, work in them, run them.
The people who own and run these banks are going to resist a takeover to the bitter end, they prefer bailouts and endless charity to keep their failed empires alive and in their hands.
the media is in the republican pants, right behind the zipper. They'd more likely use Flush BlimpWahhh for 'thoughts' on the economy than anything that would reveal the emptiness of the republiKKKan claims. The financial media is also very, very complicit in this.
The Bill that was put forth IS wasteful, Is insufficient, IS lacking in oversight, IS missing real direction.
The shortcomings of this bill is what gives the republicans the opening they wanted.
The Dem's had a real chance for real reform and they fucked up.
along with the DSCC and DCCC. aka Repug Lite.
If stimulus package isn't passed
http://foolocracy.com/2009/02/pelosi-500-mill...
More republican fear-mongering, but this time with D behind her name.
Oh, and the US has only 330 million, give or take.
Whether or not the U.S. loses 500,000 jobs a month this year is independent of whether the stimulus bill is passed.
Obama is too much a politician.
330 million people, but how many of those have 2-3 part-time jobs?
Just teasing, that was a funny misspeak.
C&L - you need to post the rant i'm hearing from THOM HARTMANN right now!
he wants to know WHY the repugs are AGAINST - and he proceeds to name off the list of projects spelled out in the Recovery Plan...
i'm listening on XM, so it's the replay... but find today's show and post the segment, please, because our senators, especially, need to hear it!
I have to admit that it's fun watching Sycophantopolous and his panel of Drooling Idiots pretend that they're anywhere near being in the same league as Krugman. How he manages to keep a straight face against this tide of talk show agitprop is quite beyond me.
The plan is to destroy Obama by any means necessary. This has nothing to do with the American people or their suffering. Republicans have their kick back money in off shore accounts and this Recession isn't bothering them at all. Yes the voters are suffering but as Republicans like to say SO. The GOP has a new spoke person that all Americans can believe and listen to. Yes it's the man of all everything Joe the unlicensed Plummer. Joe has a lien on his house, back payments due for his wives, now even child support has caught up with him and yes that law suit. But Joe can lead the way out of this recession with his wisdom and years of thinking Economics.
Obama, of course, ran as a post-partisan, and not as a progressive:
http://www.correntewire.com/discussion_we_nev...
I'm not saying he won't rise to the occasion -- I profoundly hope he will, but his whole campaign did almost nothing to repudiate the Reagan Revolution, when it was incredibly easy pickin's against a staggeringly unpopular GOP.
I continue to believe that had Obama run more aggressively as a proud progressive, McCain never would have gotten close to him before the financial meltdown knocked the wind out of his sails for good.
More relevant today, the GOP wouldn't be getting the ridiculous -- and dangerous -- concessions they're getting in the stimulus bill, and it wouldn't be getting the same mindshare, because the election would have been a much truer rejection of conservatism.
Other than Paul Krugman, I don't see why we should care about any of these people's opinions. The only expertise that Cokie Roberts and Sam Donaldson have, as far as I can tell, is regurgitating oatmeal.
Krugman doesn’t explain anything! Since C&L wants to rest its coat on the Nobel laureate Krugman and his grossly vague arguments for investing in infrastructure with money we don’t have and NO ONE can answer where it will come from. May be he should debate Nobel economist Joseph Stiglitz who says Let banks fail!
Let banks fail, says Nobel economist Joseph Stiglitz
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysect...
In one fell swoop he demolishes Krugman’s indistinct generalities.
And speaking of debate why not throw these guys into the room and let them in on the debate. All saw this moment coming years ago, all have done a far better job of explaining what the issues are and possible solutions than Krugman has.
Just because our guy Obama won doesn’t mean we should just blindly agree with his position on the economy. We should be asking tough questions of our government. We rightly asked where the money was going to come from for the wars Bush bungled. That question is more appropriate now than ever, why are so few asking ‘with what money?!’
Paul Keating on Lateline in Australia did a better job of summing up the situation and what actions should be taken than Krugman.
The man once described as the world's greatest treasurer, former prime minister Paul Keating, joins Lateline to discuss the global financial crisis and future economic uncertainty.
Video to the right
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2008/s...
Here is a real plan that might actually have some positive results
www.fixhousingfirst.com
But bailing out the banks is TARP. Let's leave that aside for now.
What Krugman was plugging was federal deficit spending as economic stimulus in a contraction, which Keating supports btw.
The crime is that the US federal government did not have and use surpluses to buy down their existing debt during the good years to help cushion the deficit spending required now. Keating would agree there. So I do not see anything in that interview which contradicts Krugman *on the stimulus*. They are all agreeing that it will be needed.
Now, going back to TARP and the banks. I too am seeing a lot of pushback to the bad bank and increasing calls for immediate nationalization. The disagreements are if the nationalization should be full or partial and permanent or temporary. Also, on if you need to nationalize then regulate or regulate then nationalize. We'll have to see what Geithner puts out next week to judge the Obama administration's course on this. Though, his SEC pick was not inspiring.
Based on what he said in this interview I don't think he's backing deficit spending (see excerpt below). Deficit spending is almost never a good idea, our problem is foreign debt, our solution, go deeper into debt. I have yet to hear one person explain in any detail why deficit spending is an answer of any kind. I would welcome someone to prove me wrong on this, it hasn't happened yet.
The Sunday shows and others have turned me off for a long time because they bring on politicians. Let's have experts in their field! Let's have people who know about crap inform us on what's going on, not politicians spouting partisan bs and the agreed upon soundbites. That crap helps us, our nation and the world not in the least bit. I stopped watching those political shows mainly for the same reason Matthews, in some of your recent clips shows us, that they have nothing of value to say and it is all, every bit of it, predictable bs. You know exactly what these people, whether they're Repubs, Dems, cabinet officials, etc. are going to say. None of it is worth a minute of anyone's time.
Get people on who will tell us the honest truth, and with some authority and expertise as well.
He wants HOW MUCH for analog-to-digital cable boxes? I just re-read the Constitution and 99% of this porkulus bill is for things that are not any of the federal governments business.
Neither is mandating a switchover from analog to digital.
What's your point?
Otherwise it would be an unfunded mandate.
I thought you conservatards were against those.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_conten...
The best quote:
"Many Americans simply accept the notion that no matter how bad things are, Congress could make them worse. Most voters currently rate Congress' performance as poor, and most expect that lobbyists will have more influence on the legislation than voters or the president. When reacting to the economic downturn, 46% of Americans remain more concerned that the government will do too much while 41% worry it will do too little."
...Krugman is not even the best spokesman for the Obama point of view. I'm no economist and (unlike George Will) I admit it, but the way I understand it, Krugman is a pretty straight-laced Keynesian, whereas Obama belongs to the Chicago school of economic behaviorism which is more a middle ground between the free-market based school (that got us into this mess) and Keynesianism. That's why Krugman has expressed pessimism in the press about the president's package.
To understand the difference in the philosophies expressed in layman's terms, I recommend recent articles in the New York review of books, which have included attacks by Keynesians against behaviorists:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21491
The New York Review is a refreshingly intellectual source of progressive thinking these days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9zwAibpHvw
Economists are the ones that figured we are in a recession/depression three years after it happened. They have nothing to do with the function of the economy and can only describe it as a mathematical abstraction; you want a view of the economy ask a single mother of three.
I think the problem is that the only people as vapid as the corporate bobbleheads are Republicans and other corporate bobbleheads. So, naturally, that is who our millionaire pundits bobble heads with.
Hey Amato, it would be very cool if you could have a Q&A with Krugman here on C+L. I have a couple questions I would like to ask him point blank about how a couple things work if this or that happens.
Me too.
On going thru the long list of earmarks in President Obama's stimulus plan which the GOP and others have classified as mostly wasteful expenditures, I discovered a glaring and most important omission. I do hope that the architects of the $800 (now grown to $900) billion stimulus plan have not overlooked the need for setting aside at least a couple of billion dollars (which is a paltry 0.1-0.2 % of the total stimulus budget) for construction of a very large federal penitentiary (or even several, located strategically in various parts of the country) as the integral part of the plan. With such a huge budget to be deployed and spent over a relatively short span of time (which will naturally have a negative impact on any effective supervision), there is enormous scope and opportunity for swindle, graft, outright stealing (and even plain, "unintentional" ex-senator-type tax evasion) in the execution of various projects and, therefore, a substantial number of grand jury indictments cropping up, as the stimulus plan gets under way, should be anticipated as a distinct possibility. We don't want to have another post-Katrina type situation in which the authorities may be caught napping in finding adequate shelter for a flood of convicted felons who will be suddenly thronging our already overcrowded prisons, do we? And, we have not forgotten what happened with the infamous oil-for-food to Iraq program which operated on a far smaller budget and which the bureaucrats in the US and the British governments supervised, have we? Moreover, the construction and staffing of these penitentiaries themselves together with ancillary facilities will create a large number of jobs and will give quite a sharp stimulus to the local economies in the manner similar to the benefits that will accrue from building and upgrading of schools and roads! And the added bonus will be that the economic stimulus generated by these penitentiary projects is likely to become self-perpetuating since any hanky-panky during their construction and subsequent operation will increase the inmate population which will, in turn, create a need for additional penitentiaries!
At first, I thought you were going to say to set aside money for a federal pen in order to house all of those former Bush and Cheney administration people who have committed treason and f'd this country over!
I am quite neutral with regard to what purpose the penitentiaries will be put to use, after they are constructed and commissioned. Both Republican and democratic crooks will equally enjoy the state-of-the-art Uncle Sam's hospitality which future penitentiaries will encompass. As is well known, the existing prison system in this country is heavily over-crowded and is in dire need of extensive expansion of the facilities. I was only pointing out the beckoning opportunities in this regard. Economic stimulus need not come only from building of schools, hospitals and highways. Penitentiaries will equally fill the bill!
I've been wondering why more economists aren't being interviewed about the economy. Every time you turn on the TV, you see a politician like Mike Pence or Jon Kyl saying that the stimulus package is all "pork." Tonight,on insanity's show, Pence once again mentioned the $50M for the National Endowment of the Arts....asked how this was going to help people in Indiana (his state) get jobs. Well, I saw a news segment the other night that many operas, theaters, and other cultural institutions going bankrupt, closing their doors, laying off workers, etc. But what's even more important is that $50M is ONLY .00556% of the approximately $900B+- the stimulus is up to now!
If it's not a politician, it's a talking head like Dick frgn' Morris.
After seeing Paul Krugmann again tonight on Rachael's show, I sent O'Reilly, Hannity, Pence, and Kyl emails asking them to first tell us just how much of the stimulus package is "pork" because all they say is that "all of it is." And then I told them they need to talk to economists like Krugmann, although I know BillO the Clown hates him.
This economic situation is far too serious to be left to talking heads and politicians who are not economists!
...with the people is because it runs counter to what the people see as their natural response to hard economic times, cut spending. Now they are being told by Obama, "We have to borrow more to spend more, to get out of the recession", whenevery body clearly knows, you have got to cut spending.
Who in their right mind borrows more to spend more in hard economic times? This is the fundamental disconnect the people who are actually suffering in this depression see and why they are failing to support Obama's Porkus Maximus Stimulus porposal.
ex animo
davidfarrar
and the subject of this thread, 'Why aren't there hundreds of economists on my TV explaining the stimulus package?'
Are you an economist? Because he wasn't calling for your opinion on the package? He was asking why are Thug talking heads armed with nothing but Thug talking points on the TV, and not economists.
The fact that you can't grasp the topic of this thread makes me suspect of any 'expertise' you may dispense.
...was to suggest it really doesn't matter how many economist you line up to explain Obama's Porkus Maximus Stimulus proposals, you can't borrow and spend your way out of a recession...it says so in the scriptures.
ex animo
davidfarar
You can't borrow and spend out of a bad car loan for that matter.
One simple reason, they do not believe in it, they are not allowed to go on a TV show and tell the truth or their version of it as they see it.
To be on a talking head show you have to abide by the producers guidelines, and the principle guideline is 'believe in fairy tales' ie the miracle bailout and stimulus packages.
Economists don't and wont lie, thus are not to be seen on TV.
'Clap your hands if you believe in fairies'
Media shills asking for tax cuts should be sent to inpatient psych wards for evaluation.
A short list they should examine:
Military involved in two protracted campaigns in two theatres of war
Crumbling infrastructure at home
Massive Debt at home
Derugulated industry and finance institutions previously given tax breaks stole everything not nailed to the ground and or outsourced whole industries overseas and or moved offices to dubai
Perhaps the best 'tax break' is cutting military spending by 75% and make america more secure by rebuilding laws regulation and infrastructure and not pissing off and or killing half the world.
..started praising the former administration and bolstering the Bush legacy? I mean, aren't we better off now than eight years ago, economically, politically, internationally, etc.? Let's see a real news piece on the last eight years and how that wonderful Republican, wait a minute, REPUBLICAN, President got this country on the right track after that Democratic President built up that huge surplus that could've been used to bolster Social Security and grant everyone moderate tax breaks until it was needed to defend the nation post 9/11. Give the media a break folks, they have much larger issues to deal with, Groundhogs and whether the Boss was really live at the Superbowl (now, that's a real scandel, doncha' think?)
Hey, talking media heads = Get Real!
Why isn't Krugman workin for US?
He's seems to be about the only human on the planet who understands what's necesary to fix the absolutely epic economic clusterfuck!
Get on it Obama!
Get some goddamned big brains up in DC workin on this shit!
And stop with bi-partisan BS..the repugs ain't gonna do jack shit to help you.
You need to steamroll right over them if they won't cooperate.
Fuck them!
They're a BIG part of what caused the mess we're all in now.
They can all go piss up a fuckin rope.
Goddamn un-American bastards! The whole lot of 'em can rot in fuckin hell for all I care!
Most probably because this is all new uncharted territory. I don't think any of the economists have a clue on the final results of any plan. Add: it's not their money . . . they can make suggestions that if it was their money they would veto!
Regardless of what kind of Stimulus package they offer, there are things that the US has got to curtail completely and some Liberals may not like to hear it but they are as follows:
1. CUT OFF FOREIGN AID COMPLETELY or at least for as long as it takes for the US to become financially stable and all of its LEGAL citizens are working and have homes and food on their tables.
The US simply cannot sustain the rest of the world if it cannot sustain itself.
2. CLOSE THE DAMN BORDERS! If we cannot provide adequate paying jobs for our own people HOW does ANYONE honestly think we can afford to support illegals when WE ARE STARVING? Besides, with the water and food shortages, our natural resources are becoming more depleted every day.
3. STOP FORCING TAXPAYERS TO PAY WELFARE BENEFITS TO LAZY PIGS WITH SIX ILLEGITIMATE KIDS WHO REFUSE TO WORK AND TO EVERY IDIOT WHO JUMPS THE BORDER.
4. Force CONGRESS and the SENATE to take a PAY CUT. Fact is, the majority of them aren't worth half of what they earn and only show up to vote when they HAVE TO! Since they are paid with taxpayer funds, they should set an example!
5. STOP OUTSOURCING JOBS-PERIOD! Enforce strict penalties on companies hiring illegal and/or foreign labor and who produce goods in factories outside of the US.
6. Start executing criminals. Why should they sit in jail at taxpayer expense? It costs between $20,000 - $60,000 a year to support one inmate. EXECUTE THEM! Free up space and save BILLIONS!!!!
7. Execute drug dealers and confiscate every penny of their illicit funds and divide it up between the states for use in rebuilding roads and bridges, etc.
8. Stop spending BILLIONS in IRAQ and other countries to rebuild them after we attack. War is war and if terrorists want to strike us, strike them back with all we've got and let them rot!
9. Force the Government to stop spending money on frivolous things like $10,000 toilet seats in Air Force One! There's not one ass in the world worth that much money! Spend the money on HIRING AMERICANS!
10. Call in all of the debts owed to the US by foreign nations for the last 150 years!
Before the Government issues another bailout, stimulous or any package affecting us all, let the people vote on it first!
It's all common sense, unfortunately, this country has not seen any in leadership for at least 50 years! Stop letting Government control us WE ARE THE PEOPLE for whom the Constitution was written!
Yes Virginia, there IS a CLUSTERFU-- and it's called LIBERAL GOVERNMENT! They control the media and every aspect of our lives.
They're throwbacks from the 60's whose drug use obviously impeded their common sense. They live in a pipe dream world where everything is daisies and sunshine and there is a never-ending supply of tax money to pay for it all.
When someone with REAL INTELLIGENCE tries to speak up about REALITY-(which they abhor), they keep blowing smoke in your face.
Well, sooner or later, they have to wake up and realize, ASS, GAS OR GRASS, NOBODY RIDES FOR FREE!
I have complained for years that the media almost never has any real experts talk about issues. You name the issue and they just have the same talking heads. How could these people possibly know anything about the middle east (probably get someone who actually speaks arabic), monetary policy, environment, etc. etc.
It is a joke that they are not interviewing the smartest economic minds in the country from all points of view on the stimulus bill.
The Media is just lazy. Although I will give credit to PBS, they seem to do a lot with some very small budgets. The best news source on TV.
I would also add that programs in the bill that have been mentioned at wasteful only make up 1% of the overall bill. I cannot believe the media has wasted so much time talking about 1%. Just playing in to the politics of the Republicans. The fact that the Republicans are only talking about 1% tells you that what they are doing is all about politics, once again putting party ahead of the country.
the real problem is the fact that we have fake money that loses value by the day. When you create new money you dilude the dollar which is why we have rising prices on everything. Raising interest rates in the early 80's brough cost down for people who were responsible and lived within their means. PEople years ago didn't need credit, the only reason credit is needed is because the money buys nothing anymore.
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