Mormons and Prop 8: Lies and Blackmail
By Julia Rosen Friday Oct 24, 2008 4:30pm(full disclosure: I work for the Courage Campaign)
Last night, news broke that the the Prop 8 campaign -- after first denying it -- admitted to sending certified letters to companies that donated to "No on 8" and Equality California (one of the major funders of the No campaign) demanding that the companies provide a matching donation to Yes on 8, or they would be "outed."
ProtectMarriage.com, a group that includes Mark Jansson, a self-described member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
sent a certified letter this week asking companies to withdraw their support of Equality California, a nonprofit organization that is helping lead the campaign against Proposition 8.
"Make a donation of a like amount to ProtectMarriage.com which will help us correct this error," reads the letter. "Were you to elect not to donate comparably, it would be a clear indication that you are in opposition to traditional marriage. ... The names of any companies and organizations that choose not to donate in like manner to ProtectMarriage.com but have given to Equality California will be published."
Ballsy no? And verging on illegal. Unfortunately, it is just the latest in a series of lies, smears and distortions from the Prop 8 campaign and in particular the Mormon Church.
The story broke just hours after the Courage Campaign launched a petition to Church of Latter-day Saints President-Prophet Thomas Monson to cease funding the misguided "Yes on 8" campaign.
The Mormon Church has spent the last three months intimidating their members into giving money to "Yes on Prop 8" -- which would take marriage rights away from same-sex couples -- telling Mormon families that their "souls will be in jeopardy" if they do not contribute portions of their income.
Members of the Mormon Church have contributed a whopping $8 million to the "Yes on 8" campaign -- about 40% of the total amount raised as of October 13 -- to pass a ballot measure that removes basic civil rights from our state constitution.
And what has this money bought? A pernicious pack of lies, broadcast dozens of times a day into California homes. A church whose ninth commandment reads "thou shalt not bear false witness" is helping fund false ads that claim California parents do not have the right to remove their children from sex education classes -- a right they have and that courts have repeatedly confirmed.
Yesterday, California State Superintendent of Public Instruction Jack O'Connell expressed his strong opposition to Prop 8 in a hard-hitting TV ad, emphatically reminding voters that "our schools aren't required to teach anything about marriage." In fact, every education authority in the state has rejected the lies and distortions of the Prop 8 campaign, including the California Teachers Association and the California School Boards Association.
It's time for Californians to fight back against these dishonest attacks by the religious right. On Tuesday, we will deliver a letter to President-Prophet Thomas Monson at the Los Angeles Mormon Temple, demanding that his church stop funding the blatant lies of the "Yes on 8" campaign.
Please show your support by signing onto our letter right now.
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I'm new around here. A YOU aren't even an American.
...sick, sick, sad little people.
What the hell is wrong with us as a society that it even comes to this kind of crap?
(Full Disclosure: You kick ass and keep doing what your doing!!!)
Orangutan!!
You didn't answer My question. Are You old enough to vote?
Do you propose sedition?
a pimple faced nobody in his 'man cave'pretending to be grown up. Pathetic.
Howzit goin bud? WOOOOooooooHOOOOOoooooo. Weez gonna part like it's our 21st birthdays.
And as far as Prop 8 goes. It won't pass.period.
Nice to see you again Orangutan.:)
you'll 'part'. Orang is wishing for his next birthday,let alone His 21st. And if He/she keeps it up, a nice cell down at a Federal lockup might be forthcoming.
Sedition carries a life term/or Death. Lookit up,chuckles.
while you're yukking it up......the NSA reads Everything. Everything.
Don't use my words against Orangutan.
Mine was simply a greeting. I don't know what is going on between you two. And I don't care. I've known Orangutan for quite some time now,and I haven't seen him in a very long time.
So, in future, don't use my words against him.
chuckles. I'll say what I want. Short of sedition. So tell your pimple ass 'friend' to shut up.
I'll guess that You're not old enough to vote,either. Right,chuckles?
But you wouldn't know that. Being that your new around here.
OK, have at it.
The only thing you've proved is that your willing to make anything personal. To anyone.
Had a bad day aye?
{ Deleted, Knock it off. SiteMonitor}
the 'aye' gave it away. I've made my point.
Is that it? Aye?
You dolt, I'm a 51 year old USA veteran. And everyone here knows it.
You accomplished nothing but proving yourself an ass. End of conversation!
I'll move on
{ Good Idea. Be civil,or be gone.SiteMonitor}
site.It's wonderful here in Tampa Bay. I loved it here,but i have to be civil but others are allowed to be uncivil. Love it. I Loved being here. Have a good day as You Pacific losers say. I will miss You.
{ I'm sorry you feel that way Dave. Go Bucc's? SiteMonitor}
I am from Tampa myself. (19 and Roosevelt). We are not all like this idiot.
actually,it's been a wonderful day,here.
Is extortion not punishable under RICO? Why is this not being investigated under the RICO act?
Probably because there's no clear profit.
They stopped using RICO statutes several years ago against domestic terrorists like Operation Rescue for that reason.
- and the non-profit status of the Mormon church should be challenged since they are stumping for money for a political cause from the pulpit. AND, they want to defend traditional marriage? Some Mormon sects that condone and practice polygamy - traditional? Nothing but extortionists and bigots.
There was a time when I logically considered my own religious beliefs, which were the result of childhood indoctrination like the vast majority, and discarded them as they did not stand up to any rational analysis. For many years afterwards, I was personally very tolerant of churches and worshippers, but with the creeping and increasing intrusion into the lives of the secular, I no longer think they are worthy of tolerance for their intolerance. I firmly believe that no taypayer should have to subsidize churches of any sort, including religious schools, and all should pay their fair share of taxes regardless of any charitable arm, or cover for prosletising.
I just wonder what is it about same-sex marriage that bothers them so much that they have to go to such lengths to stop it. It seems very sad to me that people are going out of their way to deny basic rights that should be afforded to everybody.
"Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd." - Bertrand Russell
eom
I always liked Bertrand Russell.
Go to this site:
http://www.designobserver.com/archives/entry....
Play slide show, for Bertrand Russell's "The Good Citizen's Alphabet". It's worth a 5-minute read.
A SacBee story just hit. All of this attention on the Mormon Church is having an effect. They shut down their Utah phone banks on Prop 8.
We are going to deliver the petitions on Tuesday and invite the press. The bigger number we can take to the Church, the better. So pile on!
You can contribute here, give what you can.
We had the same shit in Canada. After gay marriage became law, no one cared, or even talks about it anymore. One big snore, except for the people that are able to marry now. Keep up the battle Julia.
My cousin's husband sent me a nasty "hate-mail", so now my mother "hates" him. I just think he's an idiot. He's a bus driver and has hit and killed three people, so... Problems??? You decide.
(Full disclosure, I'm gay, 100% open, and always have felt "blessed": lucky me. Seriously.)
3 people? And he still has a job?
I'm sorry to see you have this minor problem at home.
Fuckem. He's the one with the problem. He's got a heart full of hate. And you're the closest one for him to lash out at.
Shun him. peace.
Mormons fighting for the sanctity of marriage between a man and a woman and another woman and another woman and another woman....
OK, they no longer practice polygamy, BUT they've never condemned it either.
These are the Days of Irony.
There's also a great deal of disinformation between voting NO for Prop 8, which means a yes for gay rights, versus a Yes for Prop 8, which means no gay marriage. We need volunteers to combat the 100,000 volunteers for YES ON 8 who plan on standing outside the polls trying to confuse the voters. Please sign up.
Mormons for 'traditional' marriage?! WTF?!
abarts:
Curious, ain't it? I had a similar reaction when I heard a member of the Anglican church talking about how they're all for keeping traditional marriage. The Anglicans? Their church was founded on defying traditional marriage.
As for the Mormons, I almost get the feeling that they're seeking their Religious Right bona fides. Fundamentalist Evangelicals in the Religious Right are skeptical (to put it nicely) of Mormons, but the Mormons want to be in the club. What better way than to find a common
issuegroup to hate?I've come to the conclusion that religion should be banned! People who believe that we walked with dinosaurs should not allowed to breed.
... I was just thinking the same thing even before I read your comment.
a proposition demanding the sanctity of our First Amendment be extended to the each state? How is it we live under Federal Law as a nation, but it can be completely excused on a state level? It makes no sense. Either that or start taxing these religious fanatics for meddling in our private lives. Or how about a BAN ON DIVORCE? They want to protect marriage so badly, make divorce illegal! Ugh. Enough!!!!!!
Raz:
I could go on for days on this one. I'll try to keep it brief. :)
Essentially, the federal government is limited to a finite list of powers. In order for the federal government to take any action at all, that action has to be "necessary and proper" to carrying out one of its specifically enumerated powers. Everything else is reserved either to the states or to the people, under the Tenth Amendment.
Over the centuries, interpretations of those federal powers have been broadened and widened. However, the federal government does not, under current doctrine have any powers to legislate about marriage. Thus, marriage is left to the states, under the Tenth Amendment.
On the other side of the coin, though, we have to ask whether the states are legitimately exercising powers. They get pretty free reign, though they shouldn't.
As for the Bill of Rights, you're right, it does not apply to the states. At least under current doctrine. In order for any right in the Bill of Rights to be binding on the states so that the federal courts can strike down state laws, they have to be "incorporated" under the Fourteenth Amendment. (I sympathize with your comment that it makes no sense.)
You can at least rest easy on one thing: So far, all of the rights contained in the First Amendment are considered Incorporated, to Clarence Thomas' chagrin. :)
I think that the Mormons are anxious to prove to the GOP that the Mormons can deliver California and all its delegates when Mitt Romney runs for President in 2012. The Mormon church hasn't done anything in Canada on this issue and has only made perfunctory protests in other states. This is a concise political message to the Republican establishment.
Hello everyone Im a Mormon from Salt Lake City Utah... I have to tell you I am for equality and I strongly support same sex marriage. My sister and her wife we’re married in cali in july 08…I am sure there are other Mormons out there who feel how I feel, just as there are people of other faiths or no faith that disagree with us… Please have patience with my fellow members, it’s not that they don't want people treated equally; it’s that they are afraid of what they do not know... I hope one day the leaders of my church will understand that we live in a world with people that don't always fit into the shapes you want them to and that's okay, it’s okay to be different and to have different belief's... I wish I lived in cali so I could vote no on prop 8.
A news report on the radio I heard just a couple of hours ago had one of the originators of the blackmail letter interviewed, and the spin is that it's just a friendly little letter that gives the opportunity to donate to the 'yes on 8' campaign, because, no doubt, some of their customers will be voting yes, so it gives them the opportunity to support or be in step with those customers. The actual text of the letter was not mentioned in the report, so the interviewee didn't have to answer any questions about the aggressive tone of the letter. Sad, truly sad. So much for the 9th commandment.
To progressive mormon, good for you. I was raised mormon and left the church after moving to Utah to go to BYU. I left mormonism (and the state) after one semester b/c I couldn't take all the judgeyness and hypocrisy. I have never understood why the contemporary mormon church has to be so damn close-minded, especially since the church has gone through historical periods of relative open-mindedness (being abolitionists, polyandrists, communists, open to evolution, relatively moderate abortion views, etc.) I left the church during college b/c I realized I didn't believe any of its doctrines. Anyway, I hope that you and others like you can help to move the church out of the dark ages... Good luck to you.
...let's not forget that this is a pretty blatant Get Out The Conservative Vote drive, too.
I mean, the black-hearted, sad little homophobes who might not have shown to vote for McLame will charge the polls to exercise their particular brand of hatred. The idea is that while they do that, they will cast their otherwise lost vote for all the R's on the ballot, including that doll-eyed cretin and his human mooseburger who represent the GOP.
I am sick and tired of small-minded and hypocritical bigots fraudulently representing themselves as people who hold religious values in high regard. Hopefully, this fact will not be held against me and devalue my opinion to those who actually care about things like basic human dignity and decency. We have these extremist freaks here too and those on your side of the border seem to have no problem crossing over to pollute our nation with their bile. This to me, represents nothing more than a "war" for decency. These people entirely represent what is wrong with our world and are no different than the Islamic extremists who strap on bombs and terrorize those that do not conform to their myopic and insular views of the world.
Another Canadian here that signed it. Thank gaw I watched TV game shows as a kid: Spiegel Catalogue Chicago 60609. I am Spiegel catalogue??
That may explain by the Salt Lake Tribune front page story stated Utah Mormons would no longer support the Prop 8 effort.
they are not enjoying the attention.
They would prefer to practice their hatred annonomously.
I still dont quite understand why the Mormons are so involved in this one issue.
You think they'd be more worried about that 700 billion (and counting!) bailout of wall street, or the current state of the economy. All much bigger issues then 2 guys getting married.
The same reason all those red state morons still vote republican; despite the fact the repukes have given us the 2nd GOP great depression in 75 years.
They are small-minded, stupid, pathetic freightened children, who don't have the intelligence or capacity to even try to understand someone else's views.
Religion allows these sick losers to think that somehow they are not only human, but better than everyone else.
We're obviously enjoying we're better than they are.
It's not religion it's human faiing.
They try to make up for their human failing with religion that may be pointless
And we with a generosity that is more self-serving
While the unheeding universe hears not our screams.
They wear magic underpants-- 'nuff said.
From http://www.apple.com/hotnews
No on Prop 8
October 24, 2008
Apple is publicly opposing Proposition 8 and making a donation of $100,000 to the No on 8 campaign. Apple was among the first California companies to offer equal rights and benefits to our employees’ same-sex partners, and we strongly believe that a person’s fundamental rights — including the right to marry — should not be affected by their sexual orientation. Apple views this as a civil rights issue, rather than just a political issue, and is therefore speaking out publicly against Proposition 8.
Applause!
There's a lot to love about Apple as a company, and a decent amount to hate, too, but this really made me proud to have supported the company in the past.
That they were not only willing to put a large chunk of money behind it, but say so right on the front page of their website (first headline on the "news ticker" below the new laptop ads) is something to be truly commended in an era where most companies either stand as far as possible away from anything resembling a controversial issue or (in the case of media outlets) jump up and down trying to make Republican lawmakers happy.
Watching and hearing the Yes on Proposition 8 ads is just stomach-churning, they're so full of hysterical hatred.
This proposition is in extreme danger of passing. I have sent in my absentee ballot and very firmly voted NO...I hope it goes down to defeat.
The one consolation is, I have no doubt that if it does pass, there will be immediate lawsuits filed since the proposition is blatantly unconstitutional.
Just keep in mind who are backing this thing and who is giving money. Etc etc. Blackmail is one thing but supporting who you support is another.
Rutabaga:
Under my Constitutional philosophy, I could probably come up with an argument, but how do you figure that their proposition is blatantly unconstitutional? If it passes, it will amend the California Constitution in a manner many other states have amended their respective Constitutions.
I bet that a fair percentage of the male Prop 8 supporters probably harbor fantasies of two girls having sex in front of them. (Go to just about *any* porn site for evidence.) The No On 8 people should put out ads in male-oriented media with images of two hot-looking women in bridal outfits, saying this is what the world will be like if they simply vote 'No'.
Opportunistic and (arguably) sexist? Yes. But it might get the job done.
And then let their fantasies shatter after electoral defeat when they learn that no true lesbians will have anything to do with them.
Tried to add my take on it:
After eliminating Gay marriage rights, evangelicals plan to take away rights of Blacks to pee, Latinos to procreate, Muslims to live
I was born and raised mor(m)on. I ex-communicated myself about 10 years ago. I believe that everyone should have equal rights and I posted such things on my face book. My youngest sister a devout Mormon de-friended me today saying I was spewing hate...
Ya.
Hey there fellow ex-Mo :)
I feel the exact same way as you do, and it is a big part of why I left as well. (Funny that, it's been about the same amount of time for me too.) I have close GLBT friends who have left the church that have described such hurtful, hateful, and un-"Families are Forever" treatment that I grieve deeply at the pain they have experienced. I cannot forgive the church (the organization, not the people, for they are just being told what to do) for this. For the pain that it has caused, (and not only on this issue) I will forever hold it in contempt.
It's really rough having to deal with your family just when they disagree with your views since they haven't been approved by the Prophet, or because they've been told what opinions to hold, what is good, what is bad. The programming goes deep.
Someone earlier asked why the Mormon church is so against Prop 8, despite their history. The answer to this could be long and convoluting, so let's just break it down to the fact that one of the ways in which the church controls its members is through strict guidelines on what is appropriate sexual behavior (other religions and spiritual groups do this as well). It is a control mechanism. By saying, if you masturbate, you are sinning and will never be worthy enough to be with God again, they gain a certain amount of control over their members behavior, your basic guilt trip. From there, they can then dictate other behaviors that they wish to foster. Homosexuality is not one of those behaviors, it is a sin in their eyes. "Hate the sin, not the sinner."
For the Mormon church, Prop 8 is an offense to them on a spiritual level. This is not politics for them. They genuinely believe that they are doing good in the world by supporting this. This is why those of us who value equality in all things, and basic civil rights must do what we can to ensure that all of our brothers and sisters are able to enjoy the same rights and benefits that anyone else possesses.
that for years allowed polygamy and wouldnt allow in black people??
why should they care anyway...doesnt the magic underwear protect them from everything?
They allowed black people in almost from the beginning. However, black men were only briefly allowed the priesthood in the 19th century not to regain it until about 1972.
And of course you had to consider the region a particular church found itself. In the late 19th early 20th century it seemed Pentecostalism, or the "Holy Rollers," were more of a draw for blacks.
)O(
And what I don't understand is that they had the same thing happen to them with polymagy. There is also something in D&C that says that they are not supposed to go into political issues like this. I feel really bad for my family,
I signed the Courage Campaign's letter. I especially like this part:
Bingo! I said that on an earlier thread, specifically mentioning Mormon polygamy, and was accused of supporting child molestation.
In any case, I've been out on the streets for the past few days working on this campaign. 'Sbeen great!
I got an email from the No on Prop 8 group yesterday since I had donated once already, and decided to donate again,
Wonder if I will be excommunicated? I was more than happy to sign the Courage Campaign petition and then donated to the no on 8 campaign. In the end I think this is the right thing to do. Let others live their life’s how they want. If they are happy then so be it. The mormons have no right in telling others how to live.
And if I get excommunicated then so be it. :)
Imagine that, the Mormon church using sleazy tactics! With their history of murder, lying, racism, hypocrisy, and just plain wackiness, I'm shocked at this latest story. Shocked!
If Mormons promoted a Proposition defining marriage as between a man and how ever many women want to marry him, I just might support that.
I have never understood the laws against polygamy. If everyone's happy, who cares?
And the Christian right nutjobs can't say a thing about it because it's OK in the Bible.
I like what Damon Wayon said in a talk show about how he saw bigamy. He said he wouldn't want to hear more than one woman at a time yelling, "You mean that was it!"
They've taken a public stand against Prop. 8.
No on Prop 8
October 24, 2008
Apple is publicly opposing Proposition 8 and making a donation of $100,000 to the No on 8 campaign. Apple was among the first California companies to offer equal rights and benefits to our employees’ same-sex partners, and we strongly believe that a person’s fundamental rights — including the right to marry — should not be affected by their sexual orientation. Apple views this as a civil rights issue, rather than just a political issue, and is therefore speaking out publicly against Proposition 8.
Some companies just get it right most of the time. I'm proud of Apple. Makes me glad that I've been a loyal Mac user since '88.
I just realized that someone had already posted this info. Sorry about that.
Still, it's pretty cool of Apple to publicly take a stand.
Extortion is only "verging on illegal"??? What nasty dispicable people this so called "ProtectMarriage.com" are.
It's worth remembering that the Mormons are the only 'church' that ever raised an army to wage war against the United States of America.
When I was doing a Peace Corps stint long ago, I was traipsing around the village market one day. A couple of Mormon mercenaries (excuse me, missionaries) came riding in on bicycles from god knows where (the Mormons were very fit, and they didn't drink. Consequently, they'd kick Peace Corps ass in Saturday soccer games following rare Friday night Peace Corps parties). As I watched them dismount in their uniform white shirts and black slacks to begin proselytizing, a wizened and ancient little old Mayan lady who was selling unions reached up from the ground and tugged on my shirt sleeve and said in broken Spanish, "Don, do you know why Mormon missionaries are like testicles?" I said, "No Ma'am I do not". She chuckled and replied, "because they come in pairs, and one is always bigger than the other."
In the interest of disclosure, I've been an active member of the LDS church for almost thirty years and I even wear the "magic underwear" that is the butt of so many jokes. I'm also a progressive. For many of those who share my faith, these two things constitute a kind of cognitive dissonance. I disagree.
Many of the members of my church believe that it is righteous to impose the moral standards we believe in on those around us without allowing them the opportunity to choose for themselves. I think they forget many of the simplest lessons that the church teaches. At the core of our faith lies the principle of choice. We believe that part of our purpose in life is to learn to exercise our free will and that God himself will never seek to take that gift of agency from us. In their zeal, they forget that important lesson and seek to control those around them instead of allowing them to use their God-given right to choose for themselves.
I write this not to excuse the behavior of these "Yes on Prop 8" people, but to show whomever reads this that not all of us are the intolerant bigots that we are being made out to be. There really are a lot more people like me who think as I do, but we've been unfortunately silent in such matters. If I means anything, I apologize for those members of my faith who have crossed the line and preached intolerance.
And, don't knock the magic underwear, they're really quite comfortable.
What? Exactly how does the Mormon church CONTROL those around them? Exactly how does the Mormon church IMPOSE standards on others. Those are pretty strong words.
Mormons were not told "Their souls would be in jeopardy” if they did not contribute money to the Yes on 8 Campaign. Neither were Mormons INTIMIDATED by the church to donate money. These are outrageous lies and smears to produce hatred and intolerance against a religion.
Primary grade children are taught about marriage in Californian schools. This excludes sex education. Parents are only informed of and allowed to opt their children out on sex education but not marriage education in the elementary grade where gay marriage may and will be taught if prop 8 doesn’t pass. I've read the California Education Code and the Massachusetts law suit regarding gay marriage being taught in school. There is nothing a parent can do to be informed or opt out of teaching about gay marriage in the primary grades since it does not involve sex education.
I’m voting YES on prop 8 to protect children. Protecting children's rights are more important to this nation than protecting adult’s desires. Yes for the children, yes for traditional family values for the benefit of all children. We must listen to their silent voices. They do best in intact homes with both their biological parents rearing them in love and unity, that's what's best for children and social science data has proven it.
I'm voting YES.
Join this Facebook group to help peacefully protest the Mormon Church's actions on Prop 8 and convince them to start supporting equal rights for all.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=4864824...
Deluge their chat system with propaganda of tolerance!!
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