The Gulf Environmental and PR Disaster: 7 Suggestions for President Obama
Dear President Obama,
All the good you've done (and all the goodwill many have for you) is about to be undone and forgotten by this mess in the Gulf of Mexico. It's a President's worst nightmare, no doubt. A combination of the wrecked mess of the Louisiana wetlands and the bogeyman of Big Oil at the helm is a nightmare, especially when the aforementioned Big Oil Company has been cozily sleeping with its guards.
The thing is, you're not helping things much. Your weekly video message this week was as much an apologetic for the plan to continue risking our coastline as it was a lukewarm reassurance that everything that could be done was being done. It left me -- someone frequently referred to as an Obama apologist, fangirl, and blind-eyed supporter -- cold. My sense of things was that YOU didn't even believe the line about making sure this never happens again.
Making a promise like that is akin to saying you'll make sure the sun doesn't rise and if it does, it'll rise in the west. It cannot be done. Mr. President. Yet, this is an opportunity for you. A big one. Avail yourself of it. Here are some suggestions:
- Quit putting BP in the front. If ever there was a time for the government to take charge and look like it was taking charge, it's now. If ever the "fierce urgency of now" applied, it's now. If this were a melting-down nuclear plant, you'd be right in front of it. At least, I think you would. [UPDATE: Under the law, government cannot "take over". Oversight is the limit of government's reach.]
- Select a press pool and give them full access to the area. When the press is turned away (particularly a high-profile network like CBS) and told those are "BP rules", I promise you the perception of the general public is that a cover-up is underway. I don't care what your concerns are over security or organization. Transparency is the only hope you have for exposing the danger BP has wrought on our nation. Don't spare them; let the press have full access to report the good and the bad.
- Start talking about what the government IS doing. I don't want to hear half-hearted apologetics for the future. I want to know about the NOW. I've been watching the White House updates, the NOAA updates, the EPA updates, and the Coast Guard updates, so I fully understand that the government has been on it at the start and remains so. Most people don't, even people who support you.
If there is a consistent issue in your administration, it's this: Your side of the story rarely gets in front of people until you're on the defensive. Stories break and then there's a response. How about being a little more pro-active in crafting the message, getting in front of it just a bit? This is not a time for cool-headed calm in front of the cameras and gentle reassurances. Shake your fists like you did last week. Do it again. And again. Every. single. day. We need to know you're as pissed about this as we are, and you're on it.
- Rapidly implement creative citizen-led initiatives. I've seen several just in the past five or six hours. How about letting the folks with the dog hair and nylons work along the coast and wetlands to grab as much of that oil as they possibly can? How about letting volunteers in Florida work to save their coastline before it's stuck with the same fate as the wetlands? Waive whatever red tape has to be waived. Let citizens groupsource their energy, talent and dedication and get to work doing whatever can be done. Empower us to contribute something positive to this effort.
- Employ the unemployed. There's no reason why people can't be employed by the government for the daunting cleanup ahead. Train them, pay them, and let them work. If health hazards are an issue, fully inform them and supply as much protective gear as possible, but get them in there and let them make a difference.
- Stop talking about drilling offshore in the future. Just make it a non-starter.
- Start talking about what we need to sacrifice to save our coastlines. That high speed rail project? Maybe we should pay some extra taxes to expand it and expedite it. (Yeah, I know the eminent domain issues are a big pain, but it's worth it) Stand up and start telling us the brutal truth: If we don't agree to stop depending on oil, we're getting the Gulf we deserve. That's what we need to hear; it's what you need to say. Challenge us to start RIGHT NOW. Today. A national challenge to reduce our oil dependence by the 30% you claim comes from the Gulf. Give us a goal and a hope for the future that isn't oil.
One of the themes of your campaign was "We are the ones we've been waiting for." This is a perfect opportunity to let US be the WE. Rather than enabling our national hunger for oil to destroy beautiful and irreplaceable coastlines, challenge us to save them through national sacrifice. Think of the freedom we all can gain from learning ways to end our oil dependence. Our involvement in the Middle East is all about our thirst for oil. That alone is incentive enough for us to make necessary sacrifices.
The truth is, we all own a piece of this disaster in the Gulf. We can blame BP (and should!), Halliburton and Transocean, but if there were no demand, they wouldn't be drilling deeper and farther out. The best public response to this disaster is collective, shared sacrifice. Spreading blame is fine, but only if each and every person in this country is willing to accept their piece of it.
It's not enough to shake our fists at the big, bad Big Oil companies and continue consuming oil and oil-based products at a record pace. This is where you can lead us to the future rather than leaving us stuck in the past. I believe you can do it.
Yes, you can. Will you?
cross-posted at odd time signatures
OK. I know how to stop the leak. Use a stent. An inflatable stent. run as far in as possible and inflate it.
we need a doctor, and a hell of a lot of engineers and materials people.
Another way to describe the same thing is as a very long inflatable cork or balloon, that naturally inflates on command, against the walls of the pipe by the pressure from the oil. Once in place a valve is opened allowing the oil into the long deflated bag to fill it. If it is several yards long then friction will hold it in place, as long as the pressure remains "positive". It's like the Chinese finger puzzle in reverse. A self blocking stent.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
A very good idea.
Thanks! I especially liked the "we need a doctor" part.
Maybe Bill Nye can weight in on this one?
Kanoli?
I think it could be put in place if it was thin enough prior to allowing inflation. Maybe an iflatable kevlar balloon with reinforced closed end...
This 'blocking stent' could conceivable go around corners like a roto-router to get deeper before inflating.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
...that they have those things for your ass?
"expandable butt plugs" (I think is what they call them)
stick em in there pull the trigger and expand it...then pull it out real fast.
saw it on T.V. once...HBO I think...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
If they have those butt plugs in 'Limbaugh size' then we are indeed saved.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
But getting a baloon to inflate at 5000 feet down is something else.
the well is under if that pressure could be used it'd do something to the 'stent'.
Yes. near, or at the tip of the router there is an inlet to the balloon, with remote control iris valve to control the inlet diameter. The pressure from below should do the work of inflating the balloon.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
It doesn't expand or contract under pressure... that's why it called hydrolic fluid.
I've got a BETTER IDEA... H.E. It stands for HIGH EXPLOSIVES. Stick it as far down the pipe as you can reach... BLOW IT UP... let the rock and sediment from above settle down and plug it up... then CUT YOUR LOSSES and walk away.
that the Gov't can NOT take over---All the creaming coming from the fringe is hammering this and even if a US corporation --It could NOT HAPPEN..As to a balloon--at 5.000 ft the pressure would explode --if they could get it into the pipe!
Think the options are many IF BP would put out the money! Problem is they have yet to bring in supertankers...So they are cheaping it up---across the board..The PR on this could really be played up..A commission not so much---we need experts --not politicos! Graham was alligned with the oil industry and the rest are of dubious credentials...Read that Cosner had a solution and then we have a warehouse full of hair stuffed tubes not being used! SOmeone needs tocut all the leases off for BP and light a fire under them--even though they are the major supplier of fuelm for the military!
might be for the BP CEO to fire his 2009 bonus into the pipes to stop the flow. A wad like that should be enough to choke the spill a thousand times over.
And the out of work fishermen can troll for any excess to make up for a part of the income they are losing. Although that won't feed the people who rely on Gulf seafood.
Tampax would work just as well! However 500lbs. of dynamite detonated 1/2 mile down the hole would do a much better job.
Can they put stuff down the hole like that?
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
how to pump dynamite at several thousand psi and insert a detonator. The net result would probably be to blow the thing wide open.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
and very strong rod to run it down the pipe. The results depend on the type of explosive and it's configuration. I'm thinking a number of small shape charges in a donut ring type configuration with some high explosive like symtex rather then dynamite. The real trick to making it work is the right explosive amount for rock, the right location as far as both depth and rock type. Explosives experts and BP geologists have the information for that. To "blow the whole thing wide open" they'd either have to use WAY too much explosive or do it too close to the ocean floor. This is a 21" pipe and could be made to collapse into itself if done at the right depth and right rock type. IF they could somehow get them down the pipe. No so sure my rod idea is feasible but at least it's an idea to put out there. The ability of explosive to collapse a pipe into itself I do know is well established though.
wow, so at 2000? psi at 1 mile deep then a rod with a surface area of five square inches will have 10000? pounds [5 times] pressure against it, with no flow through it. just 5 tons.
:(
The oil pipe or well shaft is 1 foot in radius. that's about 440 square inches.
So, by this estimate the plug will have to withstand roughly 440 times one square inch or 2000 * 440 = 880,000 pounds pressure. That's going to be one hell of a condom! that's 440 tons.
Can a cylindrical water bag with a base slightly greater than one foot radius be made to withstand 440 tons? Kevlar? Superman's cape? Lisa! Lisa?
OK. what we really need to know folks is what is the Relative pressure is. The oil is coming out fairly lazily. That's because all we must be concerned about is the relative pressure between inside the well tube and outside the leak. i'm still thinking some kind of stent...
What is the relative pressure of the oil vs. the ocean floor? that's the real pressure we have to face. :)
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
I don't think you have to worry about using TOO MUCH explosive. Russian oil companies have already done this with tactical nuclear warheads! OF COURSE they can get stuff down into that pipe... they got the damn thing there in the first place! If they can drill thru rock upside-down and sideways... they can get a stick of dynamite into a pipe against the flow!
It's not a question of CAN THEY...
They just DON'T WANT TO CLOSE THE HOLE.
has stopped up our toilets about a dozen times with those things. I think it'd work!
We do need a doctor. And about nineteen of the best minds in the world. :)
Stop approaching this from the perspective of salvaging the oil and start approaching it from the perspective of stopping it coming out of the ground. Everything that has been tried so far has been geared toward recovering as much oil as possible while no attempt has been made to stop it leaking.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
salvaging the ocean?
Rescuing the oil and British Petroleum's profitability out of the equation entirely.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
It would be awful to leave it there.
Margaret was referring to the oil still underground.
Get OUR government agencies such as the Coast Guard and NOAA out of bed with BP!!! It has looked all along like BP has been writing the scripts for the CG as well as NOAA. Enough of the happy talk!!! This is an ecological disaster, and our government should be treating it as such, and treating BP like what is the case -- that THEY created it.
Purge these agencies of Bush appointees. The EPA, NOAA, The US Coast Guard, the MMS and far too many other agencies are still filled up with Bush cronies and office seekers. One of my biggest disappointments in Obama has been his allowing them to burrow in. A Republican president doesn't allow political appointees to remain behind when a Democratic administration ceases to exist. The EPA was aggressively re-staffed with ideological fellow travelers by Bush, along with the DOJ. Time for them to go Obama. You own this now.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
can do. Not only is it not his fault, it's the fault of those who preceeded him and it's up to BP to clean up their mess.
As if he's just a figurehead like the Queen of England. Something tells me the Queen could do a better job.
GW Bush grabbed a bullhorn and stood atop the smoldering heap that was the remains of the WTC and vowed revenge.
We NEED to see the same public display of determination by Obama.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
He can take over the effort from BP. So far they have had their way in everything from calling the salvaging shots to restricting access to the area. Those things are exactly in Obama's purview. He can declare a national emergency and then by executive order take over the operation from those who are interested in saving their company and give it to those more interested in saving the ocean.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
quit apologizing for the lameness of our governments response.
And that wouldn't mean that BP's "expertise" (such as it is) would not be used ..
Obama could compel them to work for the govt.
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
My first question is why isn't this being declared a national emergency? Why wasn't it done two weeks ago? How bad does it have to get? Sorry Mr. "No Drama" Obama, but now is the time for some public ass-kicking.
Here is your answer?
When the US Government declares a state of emergency they assume liability for the situation. In other words, if they declare this an emergency it means that the taxpayers will be paying BP to clean up there own oil spill.
Why is it set up that only BP *or* only the U.S. Govt. can work to stop the spill from continuing to gush unchecked? This has gone far beyond BP's profits. It's about the gulf of Mexico being polluted for a generation.
The biggest problem seems to be that the well can't be capped because everyone's too busy fighting over legal liability. FUBAR.
be gone forever. As in ever and ever.
If those marshes go forever then all i can say is i hope the critters are able to relocate, and that there needs to be a state wide rescue and relocation program. A Noah's ark for victims of oil drilling. And no, god didn't do it. BP and their affiliates did it.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
Even with healthy marshes, the estimate I've heard is that we lose about a football field's worth of coastal land every 30 minutes or so in Louisiana.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/45...
Of course, science is regarded by many in Louisiana as "the s word." And ecology? Wash your mouth out with soap, you commie bastard!
Without the grasses, shrubs, and trees, the rate of erosion should speed up a lot. I live 65 miles inland. I'm waiting to hear the new estimate so I can figure how long it'll be before I can sell my lot as "waterfront property."
Quite the renaissance man I must say.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
and put out an arrest warrent for their board and chairman.
Do they have some kind of fancy equipment that we don't know about to plug the leak?
We know BP wasn't ready for it but why put the government in charge if it can't do more to plug the leak than is being done??
...he uses big words like 'particularly' and 'delicatessen.' -- Jack
I agree. The government isn't to blame for this, BP is. If the government has to, or is able to, step in and fix it they should start seizing BP's assets to pay for it. I love the wat repugnacans suddenly think big government IS the answer.
MMS (a govt agency) gave the OK for this exploratory well, without any real assurances BP had any plan in place for what to do if anything went wrong.
Andrea Mitchell's moment of clarity on government's culpability in Gulf Oil Disaster
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
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For deep well drilling on the continental shelf, WHILE this catastrophe is unfolding. If it's not the government's fault entirely, they are at least as complicit as BP, Transocean and Halliburton. None of them could have done it without all of the others.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
And perhaps even more importantly, BP, TransOcean and Halliburton could not have made this mess without the complicity of MMS.
And that's why Obama's hands are tied now - he kept MMS and appointed oil-friendly Salazar to head Interior AND recently announced resumption of offshore drilling, calling it safe.
So there IS blame on Obama's hands, which he doesn't want to admit.
If this were entirely Bush-BP-Halliburton-TransOcean's fault Obama could easily say "the buck stops here" ..
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
You can't be a leader if you live in constant fear of steppin on someone's toes. Obama is a huge f**cking disappointment.
I laugh bitterly in the face of everyone who presumed he would be a great liberal president who were going to clean up the nation's mess. Why? Oh, because his skin is kinda dark. Kinda like thinking they need a lesbian on the supreme court, because that will somehow ensure liberal rulings. Superficial fools! American superficial world view is a disease, and most self-professed liberals are as guilty and dumbed down as anyone else.
the site, and if we don't have the know how hire a third party that would try to actually stop the flow of oil instead of trying to capture it for future profits.
Do you seriously think our feeble government (I'll grant you that) would do a worse job than BP?
to the best of their ability. They have been pussy footing around because they want to salvage the well. If it were decided to write it off and just stop the damn huge flow(leak really doesn't describe what is happening in the Gulf) they could do it.
they could have done that by now if the true intent was stopping this leak. Keeping that well viable is job number one for BP. Until the public pressure is too consuming, that will still be job one. BP is nearing the end of its PR rope and will have to cover/plug and lick their wounds on this clusterf###. But they along with Halliburton and Transocean should be paying till it hurts.
How?
Hasa Diga Eebowai
It's an established way to stop a blowout well. It hasn't been done at this water depth before, but it has been done multiple times. The Russians apparently have done it with nukes more than once.
...by the people who have no idea what they are talking about who insist on sharing the absolute certainty of their ignorance with the rest of the world.
In one corner we have the people who sort of actually know what they are doing using a method that's been well-tested in stemming blowouts. In the other corner a bunch of yahoos screaming "Blow it up!" not knowing how exactly to do that, or if it will work, or what happens if it goes wrong.
When people use explosive on blowouts they aren't used to stem the flow: the explosion is used to snuff out the fire often associated with the blowout. Which os obviously not an issue in this case.
"UPDATE: Under the law, government cannot "take over". Oversight is the limit of government's reach."
That's not entirely true. There is one option in which the government could take over the clean-up/containment operations. And that is to nationalize BPs US assets. Which very much is a legally available option given the nature and scope of this disaster.
really) I think the government could do whatever the fuc* it wants to do. But just doesn't want to.
Exactly. If we can seize the assets of some charitable organization because a decade or 2 ago one of their members had dinner with someone who later was involved in a group that some obscure government official deemed a terrorist organization in the name of National security and even throw anyone who donated to the charity into prison as terror financiers all in the name of "national security" then we sure as hell can do this.
of the Chavez solution to big oil. It's our resoures and they belong to the people. Take the profit motive out of it except perhaps taxes to rebuild our infrastructure, education and healthcare. Damn it so sounds socialist and the right thing to do.
.
The profit motive should be removed from all public services, too; electricity, natural gas, water...
tooth and nail to see to it prop. 16 passes. Prop. 16 would require a two thirds affirmative vote in order to allow local governments to provide electricity to the public.
Southern California has the highest electricity rates in the Nation - with Ontario being No. 1. I've had my go ins with Edison and all the can sputter is "Hawaii is higher." I don't know, maybe.
There are a few counties that generate their own electricity, Riverside being one that I know of. And there rates are about one third of what Edison charges.
They just don't want any competition and want the right to gouge everyone for eternity.
Do I have any hope that the average Californian actually knows what they are voting on? No.
And that's what this is, whether it's declared or not.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
BS; if its an emergency, and an environmental/economic disaster such as the BP oil spill is such a one. The Feds can walk in and do whatever they want, if they have the balls to do it.
FEMA anybody !?
This IS a National Emergency.
End of discussion.
Sen Lamar Alexander (R-TN) Suggests Govt Takeover of BP
Ted Rall: Nationalize BP and Other Criminal Corporations
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
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Can waltz into a state and raid perfectly legal (by respective state law) medical cannabis outlets.
Or the FDA etc raids some small food coop in some remote midwest town.
Maybe too many Congressional types own BP stock and do not want to upset the applecart.
Too many DLC'ers want Big Oil to
lovecontribute heavily to Democrats in future elections.Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
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Protest!
growing some pot on floating platforms we could get the media and government all over this.
Rather, he is steadfastly supporting corporate America. Just like he did with the banksters. He supports them against the rest of America, and does it over and over again.
Judge him by his actions, not by his faux anger (that somehow never gets translated into action)
I must have missed it.
He said he was "very displeased" with all the finger pointing among the CEOs of BP, Halliburton and Transocean when they testified before Congress.
Very displeased ..
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
teabaggers be throwing bricks through BP gas station windows next? I don't think so.
So! There it is! The tea baggers are the people who bought into big oil! Yep. that's almost something for nothing alright, except extinction and sickness that is.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
And stain it with oil. Maybe that's what it will take to get people angry about this.
Barack Obama: Change we can only imagine
I can't help feeling that we're being tricked, at least partially, by a false media narative that desperately wants to draw an equivalance between this and Katrina.
We need to understand that there is a limit to what the Federal governemt can do down at the depths required. Sure, they could have prepared by having a fleet of mini-submersables perfect for the job, but who would have approved the funding for something like that? Only the oil industry has that gear, so you don't have much choice in letting them be the front-men.
I'm not saying it's being handled perfectly. Just don't let the media get you so riled up that you start having unattainable expectations.
The situation is awful, but we should blame the oil companies, and the folks who've enabled them, not just now, but for the past decades, rather than making the President a scapegoat.
Does the US own any submarines?
.. just asking ..
Democracy is too important to be entrusted to politicians.
Rise Up!
Protest!
The regular military ones can't go that deep, I read. Couldn't say if that's true, but then it's possible that a massive nuclear sub would not actually be terribly helpful in this situation anyway.
A mile is way, way beyond the crush depth of submarines the Navy has. Pressure exerted by water increases by one atmosphere for every 33 feet of depth. At one mile deep the pressure is... well, I don't have time to do the math... but it's way deeper than subs go.
If my 'rithmetic is correct... a mile deep is 160 atmospheres... or 160 X 14.7 pounds per square inch, or about 2300 PSI.
Well, there's this one
and these
plus the ones they take over from BP.
The Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle is neat, but probably not much use outside of rescuing people from sunk submarines. It's a very specialised bit of kit.
Getting down there is only half the job. You need to have the arms and tools to do precise work at extreme forces.
on the ones we take over from BP.
Maybe we'll even let them watch the video feeds.
I'd be all for that :)
Then again, I'd be for nationalising oil companies in general, seeing as the oil belongs to the citizens of the country.
Starting with one that has shown such flagrant disregard for law and the envirionment might persuade the others to behave a little better.
that could help? We've got C-5 Starlifters that could fly a pretty big submersible over here in short order.
I'm first surprised that you know I'm a Brit!
I don't know. Most of our oil rigs are in the North Sea, which is only about 100m deep on average. I would imagine globally there must someone that has something. I have a nasty feeling that anything capable of doing the job is likely to belong to an oil company.
If, and maybe this has been done already, a call went out to the Oceanographic institutes of the world, I'll bet there'd be something they could so to help, and they'ed be eager to do so.
"Specialised" and "nationalised" instead of "specialized" and "nationalized". Ya know, "bonnet" and "boot" vs. "hood" and "trunk"...
:D
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Ha! Masterfully done!
I wasn't going to mention it, seeing as BP are doing a rather wonderful job of making Britain unpopular in the US at the moment! In spite of it being a multinational corporation that we don't have any more control over than the US does.
I wish they'ed lose the B, and stick to just being P.
...the people of the UK. Since the Empire split up into a hundred little pieces, I think you're safe from that kind of critcism...Except, of course, where the UK's hand in setting the borders between those little pieces have had, uhm, unfortunate repercussions. And even in those cases, the blame lays at the feet of those long dead.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Only a Brit uses the term "bit of kit". Possibly a veteran also? As "bit of kit" is more often used in relation to the military.
And yes I agree on the worlds Oceanographic institutes. You'd even think they would have already come forward and volunteered. Aggressively even.
And I agree with Andy K that I haven't heard anyone try to place any blame on the people of Great Britain. We've got plenty of nasty greedy filthy corporations here too so we understand. ;)
Possibly BP has been blocking such assistance, if it has been offered. they seem to have been stopping anyone other than themselves getting down there. That needs to end.
I'm not ex-military. It's just an expression I've always used. I would guess it's common throughout the UK scientific community when talking about equipment, and having "the right kit for the job".
It might just be perception on my part. When I've heard commentators on US TV, they just seem to pronounce the word "British" in British Petroleum with venom. And the company isn't even called that any more. It's been just BP, without being an abbreviation for anything, since it merged with Amaco.
Oceanography departments have a couple of little robot ones that can go down that deep, apparently. But they probably don't have the necessary arm strength or tools to physically fix anything.
They could still be used to go down and survey the area, and perhaps take samples, which might help cut through all BP's misinformation.
I WAS a big fan of Obama... but his energy policy went from "Yes, we can" to "Drill, baby drill" and "let's build more nuclear power plants." Now he has oil gushing out of control in the gulf and instead of taking swift action and using this moment to crush big oil and big coal.... he is trying to let the story die... letting the Republicans blame the government instead of making it look like the government is cleaning up after big business... again... with tax payer money. Obama is a stooge. IN fact, he is not a stooge... he is a sleeping pill.... and all of you "progressives" and "liberals" would be marching toward Wasington right now if George Bush was in charge or John McCain or any other corporatist. You have no conviction.... keep patting this guy on the back... and in 6 years, we will still be in the same hole we were in 2 years ago.... 20 years ago.... 30 years ago.....
In order to pass legislation that would address global warming over the long run, he gave Lindsay Graham the oil drilling carrot. That carrot is now off the table.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
I thought that too... he is a masterful politician.... he is playing multi-dimensional chess... brilliant strategist.... BUT... he passed the Republican Health Care bill from the '90s (and took a year to do it), has continued the war in Iraq (I thought he said we would be out of there), escalated the war in Afganistan (I know he was always been a chicken hawk here but he has escalated far more than any of us could have imagined and certainly more than has been fairly reported), the Financial Reform bill is weak as toilet paper, his job creation bill was ladened with more tax breaks than a Republican could have achieved, his climate change bill will begin with cap and trade as a premise which is a conservative philosophy, and his energy policy, again, is one that encourages oil, coal and nuclear above alternative energy instead of leading a massive change in our energy infrastructure that would be more reliant on true alternative energy innovation....
Congress makes the laws, the President signs them (or not) and enforces them. Hence the old Heritage Foundation health care reform proposals (which, if you noticed, were never introduced by the GOP when they had both houses of Congress and the White House from '03 to '07, leading me to believe that they were never the GOP plan in the first place), and weak Financial Reform.
As for Afghanistan: You obviously weren't paying attention, but rather projecting your wishes onto Obama. He talked about withdrawing from Iraq, where the number of troops should drop from the current 94,000 to 50,000 by the end of August (with only non-combat personnel left in Iraq), and taking a "wait and see" attitude in regards to Afghanistan.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
I knew he was a chicken hawk... you are projecting here... "wait and see" ... really?... that is some pretty aggressive waiting and seeing he is doing in Afganistan.... and as for Congress passing laws... umm... I guess the Executive branch has no influence on the process... yep... the President just sits back and eats his/her popcorn while the bill is being negotiated in the Legislative branch... what a cop out...
and by the way... if I remember correctly... it was pretty much Bob Dole that originally introduced what eventually came out of the Health Care Bill... and I even thought Obama was being a brilliant strategist at that point because he was able to pin the whole thing back on the Republicans.... but taken into context of all the other bs he is leading us through... I'm not so sure he is playing for my team... maybe his multi-dimensional chess is meant to keep me and all the other progressives stunned into silence...
...we'll wait and see what needs to be done when we get into office.
Influence? Sure. But can a President force a Representative or a Senator to toe the President's line? In his own party or an opposing party?
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
and unimpressed at this point.. and very concerned that we are already starting on the wrong foot on the two or three largest initiatives Obama claimed he would take on: Energy, Climate Change, and Education.
They understood their mandate: to push the country to the right in an effort to kill all legislative will for true progressive initiatives.
This myth of the majority in Congress is just that, and ultimately, what can be done will be determined by the legislative will of the majority. Even in the House, where progressives have a stronger Caucus, the compromise bills have passed by a razor-thin margin.
Reality says that legislatively, this President has done more with marginal support than anyone reasonably expected.
Change doesn't happen in a rush. With that said, it would be worth the left getting as noisy in support of him as the right is noisy against.
And still, I want him to just quit talking about offshore drilling and start talking about this idea that we can consume with abandon and not pay the price environmentally, in human life, and fiscally.
Have I told you lately how glad I am that John brought you on board here? Because I'm very, very glad for that.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
very glad. :)
Obama seems to also be all about not falling into the same defeats as his predecessors.
In this case, not a good thing. But if he's not taking it on, it must be the assumption that he can't pull it off. So, more pressure form left or it is not making radar.
That's how they installed the well head in the first place. Now that you've got the subs what are you going to do with them.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
they contacted Jules Vern and Captain Nemo to help stop the gusher?
Spongebob and Patrick need to be given a chance...
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
cap on it while Nemo was partial to a dome.
Ariel
Someone contacted Jack Coustou Jr. and he is pissed.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
I am losing faith in you. It's not that I expect you to don an Iron Man suit, jump into the ocean and fix this leak. Hell, I don't even expect you to visit Louisiana again; there's not much you can do here. (In fact, as it is right now, visiting would probably be a really bad idea.) I don't expect you to cripple the oil companies, that would be stupid. (However, it would be good for you to try to not let the oil companies cripple everyone else.) What I really do expect of you is to be the new President of the United States. The new one, not an extension of the old one. I've been waiting nearly two years for that to kick in. Wha' smatter?
Fabricate a large tapered screw and screw it into the hole. Screw it in so tight as to seal the damned thing. Surely if these companies are sophisticated enough to drill holes in the seafloor and insert big pipes into them, they are sophiciated enough to do something like that.
They could practice on the anal orifices of the BP execs and the MMS guy that just announced his retirement.
just went missing.
.
I forget where I heard this, but there are only four deep-water submersibles in the world capable of doing this work and they're in Asia, France, and--IIRC--Australia. Maybe if the Interior Department branch responsible for regulating deep-sea offshore-drilling had... oh... REQUIRED that one such submersible be on station for every three of these rigs, we'd have been able to make some headway.
The Minerals Management Service was literally and figuratively in bed with the energy industry during the Bush Administration. The new head of the section was just confirmed in June 2009. I'd be planning some short-order inspections of drilling rigs and nuclear power plants if I were her. Business is always going to run operations right out to the margins. The "regulations" governing them now were written with the cooperation of Dick Cheney before Bush was even sworn in.
There are more of these disasters coming. As for the present danger, why hasn't there been a disaster declaration yet? BP won't let ya, Mr. President? And I think the Obama Administration should go before Congress and demand half a trillion dollars for cleanup of the oil spill and for the restoration of New Orleans. Spend five billion on exotic craft that could aid the cleanup effort. Of course, we have a better chance of getting that half-trillion back from BP than we did getting it from the Iraqis. Once the well is capped and put safely back into production, BP puts half its quarterly profit toward paying back the cleanup.
What? The cap for damages is $75 million above the cleanup? Well, this is all pure cleanup and it comes out of the wellhead wherever they drill in America. Put a surtax on its retail petroleum products, too.
Rahm Emanuel is purported to have said, "don't let a good crisis go to waste." I agree.
Are you being paid here or are you doing this pro bono?
In the very first sentence of the second paragraph. ;-)
Our Government will remain under the control of corporations. It's not 1 person equals one vote any more. It's dollars equals votes. Government by the highest bidder: Corporatism.
Yes... the oil spill is a huge ecological disaster with long term consequences.
However, is it the Taxpayers liability to bail them out.
Oil Company gets to make money hand over fist when everything goes well; and, stick the taxpayers with the responsibility when things go poorly.
Besides that, what exactly is the government going to do to stop an oil spill?
There is no government agency set aside to do this. What is the military going to do? What is the Department of Education going to do? How about Health and Human Services, or possible we could send the US Postal Service to the rescue.
The only people set up to deal with oil spills are PRIVATE COMPANIES.
The only thing the Government can do is foot the bill to pay the contractors?
Is this really something that the taxpayers should do?
Should we assume the role of contracting out to corporations to clean up a mess made by corporations?
Or should we give them the finger and say take the responsibility to clean up your own mess or we f@ck you with criminal charges?
Because I don't trust the fucking oil companies to clean up their mess. If you like the way they cut corners getting at the oil, you'll love the corners they'll cut cleaning it up.
Ideally, the Interior Department should have made plans in conjunction with Homeland Security (FEMA) to get a handle on what to do in an emergency like this. The Minerals Management Service could have set operational guidelines based on the warnings already set forth by the National Oceanographic And Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and other entities. The administration could have held up drilling until FEMA had its emergency measures in place. Industry could have been made to foot part of the bill.
But the government Barack Obama was handed just isn't built to do that. There's a leak to be stopped, but the executive branch didn't believe in plugs or mops or even inspections, so all it can do is stand back and scream "Hurry!"
all possible. We know right now that BP is more interested in saving the well than they are in stemming the flow of oil. Sieze all assets in the U.S. and overseas (where treaties exist to allow such things) of BP to cover the costs.
Immediately cease ALL deep sea drilling under U.S. control to perform inspections. Immediately cease the granting of more off shore leases.
Oh, and by seizing all of BP's assets we wouldn't have to worry about having a submersable that would be able to go to those depths. And while we're at it, sieze control of Haliburton. If these two behemoths don't have the assets to shut this thing, no one does.
Criminal charges all around, yes, for the entire Board of Directors, and how about getting that criminal mastermind Cheney under oath in front of congress.
There is so much that could be done.
RIGHT NOW as I type this, their massive refinery in Whiting Indiana has sprung a leak in the fire suppression system.
The best part is they keep paging (over the radio) their safety guy and he's NOT answering
If you're nearby and have a scanner channel 158.3800 to here the gory details
PS They just paged him again
The safety officer is probably back there playing with matches or having a smoke.
Then I have a front row view of the ensuing (spectacular) explosion
...how about a "cleanup stimulus program" 750 billion or so?
The Gulf needs a bailout...because it's "assets" are toxic!
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
!
...scoop up all the toxic assets in the gulf and put em on Bernanke's balance sheet.
audit-prosecute-incarcerate
I'm completely on board with two, three, six and seven. I was going to criticize one but you caught with your update. The only one I really have an issue with is number five, using untrained people to mop up the oil from the shore. This stuff is toxic. I've seen pictures of people doing cleanup with nothing more than rubber boots and gloves for protection. This is very wrong. You expose enough people and statistically many will have adverse long term health consequences including cancer. And I doubt many of these people will have adequate health insurance. For pity's sake somebody hand out some respirators to those volunteers. Oh and as a p.s. peat is a wonderful oil absorbent and there's no shortage of that.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Here in Louisiana, we have for years referred to the corridor between the Gulf and the Mississippi River from Baton Rouge to New Orleans, where most of our petrochemical plants are located, "Cancer Alley." An extraordinary number of cancer fatalities in that strip. Lung cancer, especially.
Edited to say: YAY PETROLEUM!
the Canadian equivalent and it has the same reputation.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
and Jeebus knows there's enough bullshit coming out of Washington in regard to this thng to soak up half the oceans in the world, oil AND water. The trouble is getting that huge amount of bullshit to where it's needed. Our transportation infrastructure just isn't up to the job.
So my suggestion is that we build this huge flipping raft with thousands of little trap doors in it and station all the oil company execs and lobbyists, the entire M$M, the congress and every politician and bureaucrat in the executive branch over those little trapdoors and make them sty there until this crisis is over. Then just open all the little doors and ask them for an opinion.
Problem solved.
... just be adding SLIME to the oil spill?
But, in the end, I agree. I think they need to drink it and have it poured on their food. I think they need to bathe in it and water their front lawns with it. I think we should drop their wives and children into the Gulf.
And has anyone tested whether U.S. dollar bills - which are fabric more than paper - soak up oil? Then I say we cash out BP's accounts and drop their dollars into the Gulf as well.
One is the oil coming out. I don't fault efforts to recover it. I'd rather have it recovered than have it remain in the ocean. But it has to stop gushing first.
The second is that if this crisis doesn't drive home the absolute need for us to break this symbiotic relationship we have with oil consumption, it'll happen again, and again and we'll all own a piece of our dead oceans.
... most people can understand the short-term, close-range effects: damage to fisheries and fishermen. Damage to wetlands and marine life.
But those are just the beginning. We're killing off the bottom end of the food chain. We're killing off habitats. Evangelicals like to talk about how 'irreducible complexity' disproves evolution. Okay, here's your irreducible complexity ... we've just offed part of the food chain, the ecosystem that includes us.
We'll be paying for this for generations to come.
with what it will take to break that addiction. Are you prepared to see the massive use of genetic modification to replace all the petrochemicals that are the basis of just about everything we use or make and to minimize fertilizer and pesticide use? (These are rhetorical questions btw) How about nuclear power? For or against? How about coal? The idea that one can run an industrial economy on windmills and solar panels is lamentably common and even more lamentably impossible.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Even here in the comments, all focus is on what the President has or has not done, what the government has or has not done, and why it is we're in this mess at all. Yet I haven't seen much in the way of shared responsibility. How do we reduce consumption by 30%? Let's start with a plan...
A plan would've been nice for a disaster like this, too. BPs arrogance frustrates the hell out of me.
What do we need to change? It I walk to work will that slow down the spill? How about if I wear a sweater?
As long as it's everyone's fault and not those in charge . . . .
Corruption favors the wealthy.
How about we do both?
It's possible to accept personal responsibility for our own part of the consumption AND still blame those who take advantage of it for massive profits.
There is enough blame for everybody. People just like scapegoats because it allows them to focus on what someone else is doing, without seeing their own part in it.
.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
We should also spay and neuter our pets and eat more leafy vegetables.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
But it's your right.
you're one of the people who scream when a gallon of gas costs four bucks.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
as it happens. That's why they were rhetorical questions to the community at large. There are no magic wand solutions to these problems and I don't envy the man in the Whitehouse who has to deal with them.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Phrases that tell you the government is getting bad advice AND that the media is asleep at the wheel:
5,000 barrels. The average consumer does not buy anything in barrels. We buy things in quarts and gallons. 5,000 barrels sounds so much more friendly and less devastating than 210,000 gallons. And now we're learning that even BP's '5,000 barrels' was a complete low-ball estimate.
Mile-long pipe. The length of the pipe has nothing to do with its capacity to take in oil. I could stick a mile-long soda straw into Niagra Falls, and no matter how hard I suck on it, I'm not going to have an impact. (The excuse is, apparently, that 'mile-long' shows how difficult it is to get down there ... except being a mile down wasn't a problem when you were drilling in the first place.)
universally uses barrels even in jurisdictions that use the metric system. (Some use cubic meters. Would that help clarify the situation for the public.) I trust most people can multiply by 42. Still I take your point that the larger units make the problem appear smaller. The second point, unfortunately is incorrect. Google "line loss", and "net positive suction head". The length of the pipe very much affects how much fluid can be pumped through it.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Stop talking about drilling offshore in the future. Just make it a non-starter.
... after we stop pretending that waterboarding isn't torture.
We've institutionalized stupidity and dishonesty. Doing something as sensible as moving away from offshore drilling will never get done. If Obama bans it, the next Republican tool in the office will reinstate it.
BP should be nationalized... Get the experts in there and get this fixed! It doesn't matter if Obama's whole cabinet is there.... GET HELP ON CLOSING THIS WELL DOWN....NOW!
If only we had a progressive in the WH.
Obama as Alfred e. Neuman - What me worry? While the old Cosby, Stills, Nash & Young song "Helpless" plays in the background.
Do you *really* think he's sitting in the WH with a stupid look on his face saying, uh, geez, it's all just too bad?
Maybe we need to come to terms with the truth of this: it's a man-made disaster of epic proportions that no one has really encountered at this depth before, and it's going to take the best minds here and abroad to figure out how to fix it.
in a closed door meeting trying to figure how to fix it or has he been willing to let BP take the lead on this, when they are just trying to figure a way to maximize their profits?
the profits from it keep on piling up? No one has a better reason to stop it than BP. Every day it goes on will cost them an additional fortune and serve 'em right. The idea that they aren't exploring every single way to put a plug in it doesn't make any sense to me.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
profits into some safe low yield account and in twenty years when they have to pay a relative pittance in damages it will all be covered by the interest earned.
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