Sally Kohn's Debut As Fox News Contributor Illustrates Why Congress Can't Function
I have to admire Sally Kohn's fortitude in agreeing to be a Fox News contributor and also in sticking to her guns in her debut segment. By the end of it, I realized why this Congress will never get anything done and why Harry Reid's "ditch the tea party" remark on yesterday's Meet the Press has become so controversial in so many circles.
Before I launch into the segment itself, I want to note that I found it interesting that Fox News has brought on someone who isn't a liberal in name only as a contributor. Kohn's background is not the usual Fox News centrist Conservadem fare: she's got ties to the OWS movement, she has strong organizing credentials, and she's decidedly liberal. Does this mean Fox News is responding to their tanking ratings, or trying to bring someone on they think the conservatives can score points on? If the latter, they may be surprised. Kohn definitely held her own in the segment and gently, but firmly, made her points.
This segment was intended to be a 'debate' between Kohn and the tea party representative, David Webb, about Congress and whether compromise is even possible. As Kohn notes mid-segment, most liberals think Democrats are too willing to compromise in the face of rock-solid obstruction from the tea party and Republicans.
But beyond stating the obvious, this segment stands as tribute to the underlying argument about who it is that's willing to compromise and who isn't. I hope every Fox viewer got a clue as a result of their little discussion. Here's the key to the whole thing, at about 5:30 or so:
KOHN: I hate to trouble you with those pesky facts, but we have the lowest percentage of corporate tax -- real corporate tax rates -- in the developed world already. In addition to that, Republicans want to lower that further. In addition to that, corporations are sitting on two trillion in unspent money and they're not creating jobs. So your big corporate --
[crosstalk]]
-- your big business job fairy hasn't appeared and meanwhile, businesses are staying --
[crosstalk]
-- you've got to create demand, put money in the hands of working people.
WEBB: Sally needs a course in basic economics, ok? The money that's on the sidelines are from corporations who can't spend here in America.
KOHN: The conversation was about obstructionists.
HOST: If you guys are a microcosm of the country -- liberal versus conservative -- I'm not sure it's going to be a new day when the lawmakers come back.
KOHN: Allison, I'm optimistic. If David and I can have a conversation and at the end of the day, when the cameras are off say "All right. I'm willing to give on this if you're willing to give on this" --
WEBB: I'm not willing to give on this. I'm sorry, you come up with these ridiculous progressive trends that have not worked in any country --
KOHN: Democrats are willing to compromise and Republicans have been obstructionists.
HOST: Take it to the green room --
WEBB: I don't compromise on policy and neither should the Republicans.
Well, alrighty then. There you have it, right in a nutshell, courtesy of Fox News. Earlier in the segment, Webb tossed off the payroll tax cut as a trivial thing, saying an average of $83 per month extra in employees' paychecks was nothing. This, from a conservative tax-cutter, except that he's only a tax cutter when it involves corporate interests it seems.
It was refreshing to have someone representing the liberal side of things who was well-spoken, assertive, and made her points clearly. I'll be interested to see if Fox News brings her on more often for some extra fairness and balance. Go Sally, go!
She appears to be a liberal who can't be bullied or intimidated. Now that Fox GOP Pravda has seen it for themselves, I think the chances of her ever appearing again are about as high as the chances of me jumping up in the air and flying to the moon.
"Whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, the Republicans are not the least bit interested in solving it. They are interested in two things, and two things only: making you afraid of it, and telling you who's to blame for it."
While it is nice to hear Fox allowed an actual Lefty on their network, I note to people that MSNBC gave "Scar" his own hour-long morning show.
When Fox makes Kohn a regular on "Fox news Sunday", I might be willing to give them some credit, but inviting someone on that they know is so far to the Left that their viewers only watch to see the Fox talking heads gang up on her, ridicule her, and shut her down, I'm not about to suggest it's a new day at Murdoch Net.
* There are two types of Republicans: millionaires and suckers.
"Mugsy's Rap Sheet": Recording history for those who seek to rewrite it.
Mitigating Rachel, Lawrence and Ed in primetime.
Say goodby to liberal Sally Kohn. I might be wrong but it will only be a matter of time before she gets used to drinking the Conservative 'Greed' Koolaid, and start sprouting false and dangerous Conservative talking points.
Or else Murdock wiretapped her phone and is blackmailing her like he did with the British Parliament and so many of our current Senators and Congressman.
It is very difficult to become a greedy person when you were not born that way I have helped many people who later screwed me that I declared I will never help anyone again but I can not stop myself I am either altruistic or a fool but it is who I am
{OAK}TIGER
A whole lot of us are in the same boat.
It will never come back directly from where it went. There are several people in my life that helped me when I needed it, but I can't find them to pay it back!
We have nothing right now and eating everyday is not guaranteed in my house, but I still find people around us that are worse off. Loaning food stamps is common in our circle right now.
Will you really feel good about yourself if you don't help? The times I have said no haunt me far more than the times I never got payed back.
Well that was a pretty long leap. Take someone who is logical and Liberal and assume she isn't going to be Liberal for very long?
~albabe (The Writer/Artist Formally Known As Al Gordon)
http://www.comicon.com/gordon/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gordon
Fox News is very evil extremist Conservative and for them to have a real Liberal on is very suspicious. Don't make the mistake, don't EVER trust any of these corrupt Republicans/Conservatives. .Never ever ever!
It's great that FOX viewers heard a rational person speak this time, but there is no reason for optimism. The Republican establishment knows the Tea Party is doom for them this fall, and FOX brought in a liberal to discredit the TP so the Republicans don't have to be sullied by doing the necessary TP bashing. FOX is falling in line for Romney.
Great comment!
but I think, eternal optimist though I may be, Murdoch has never been an idealogue. He's profit-driven, and, for example, Glen Beck was losing audience share, thus outski. If the conservative worms are turning, Fox programming will gradually reflect it. The balance (pun intended) is giving non-idiot Repubs a reason to tune in, while pandering to and retaining the moron majority.
In other words, CNN redux.
I love it!
Right off the bat this Teabagger says that Harry Reid refused to let 17 bill pass in the House. Of course Harry Reid is the Senate leader. I guess it is easy to misspeak.
Then he calls the Auto "bailout" (Actually the Obama administration saved the whole industry but I don't want to nitpick.) and the stimulus a failure. This guy Web is a failure. Just like the Tea Party.
This is crazy. The guy goes on to say that Republicans do not want dirty air and dirty water. Of course he doesn't say how that would happen without the EPA that they want to get rid of.
This ass Webb says that $83 does not matter. Talk about out of touch. That money is a huge deal to a lot of people and it DOES help the economy. It just does (help the economy) and by saying what this guy said it just shows he is ignorant at best but most probably just an idiot.
Yeah I couldn't believe that, what a prick. $83 is a tank of gas and a week of groceries for me.
What I took away from this is that David Webb is a bully and horribly stupid and that Sally Kohn probably will not be asked to comment on FOX very often because she made this guy look stupid and showed that she could make any Teabagger look stupid. She also showed that she will not back down to a bully and if that guy tried to backhand her like he looked like he wanted to do she would have knocked him out. It sure is nice to see somebody show how idiotic these Teabaggers are.
Wow, Sally Kohn is a tough Liberal who knows her facts and doesn't back down. I love it! But the reality is you're never gonna see her on FOX again. I say put her and Rachel Maddow on Press the Meat or Deface the Nation during a round table discussion with reichwingers; it'll be awesome! As for David Webb, well, it's not the first time FOX has featured an Uncle Tom is it?
If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders.
George Carlin
The problem with hoping that FOX viewers will walk away seeing what is wrong with the obstructionist Republicans is that they will probably walk away thinking that David Webb was correct and that the Republicans should never never never never compromise.
Sally is not going to make a dime's difference except to Fox in the form of being being able to convince people they are fair and balanced.
If this nut case David Webb is serious about what he is saying then the tea baggers have jumped the shark and by the way I wish I had 88 bucks right now to buy some household supplies and food that I need
{OAK}TIGER
...then what would you compromise on? We've already been told they won't compromise on "principles" either!
Does the tea party understand the basics of democracy? It is a form of government where no faction (using the framers' word) would have absolute power. All sides must compromise to get anything done. And if you can't compromise on policy, you have no business wrapping yourself in an American flag and preaching to the rest of us about your love of the Constitution.
Beware of anyone promising a future full of yesterdays.
Its a corporate funded astro-turf group that wanted to take America back(from the Democrats/black man). They got what they were funded to do and went away. Citizens United decision?, which, if they really cared about Democracy should have had them stomping mad? Crickets from them. Why? Because RushBo and Fox news didn't tell them to get mad. But if you do get them mad, i'm guessing you'll have this generations Brownshirts.
It should be mentioned that the Bush tax cuts only put about $128 in the average American's pocket every month. So if $83 does not make a difference why does $128?
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/26581....
And remember that gigantic $300 rebate check we all (the lower classes) got under GW Botch? That was only $25 a month!!!!!
Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
And it wasn't really a rebate check because you had to report on the following year's taxes. It was actually an advancement against your next year's tax refund. Basically, you loaned yourself $300 with Uncle Sam as the middleman.
Election 2012: Be Educated! Be Active! Vote!
www.PhoenixJustice.com
...of being fair and balanced. Some hosts who can referee and blow a whitle when someone interupts would also be welcome. How can you make a point when after three words the gasbag on the other chair butts in?
typo...
Of course she the "Moderator" has an agenda in sinc with the reight winged blowhard.
stephen
It is true that many liberals are upset because Democrats are "too" willing to compromise. Much of the criticism of the Democrats and the executive is centered on this fact. The underlying presumption is that a firmer stance would somehow lead to yielding by the Republicans. And there isn't a damned shred of evidence to support that contention. On the contrary there is every reason to think it would only harden the paralysis and things like upping the debt limit, which MUST be done wouldn't get done at all. I've said it numerous times: when doing nothing serves the political ideology of small government (Republicans) then the party with the duty to govern must compromise if it to achieve anything. So much desperately needs to be done too!
Hasa Diga Eebowai
And there isn't a damned shred of evidence to support that contention.
Oh yes there is. FDR stood his ground on the New Deal, even going so far as to threaten to stack the Supreme Court. Bush and the Republicans got nearly everything they asked for, even with Democratic majorities in Congress. What's more, the only time Obama gets on his hind legs and bares his fangs is when he's dealing with progressives. If he can fly to Ohio to twist Kucinich's arm, he can fly to Arkansas to twist Blanche fucking Lincoln's. In fact, she had less reason to oppose the public option, since she wasn't going to win reelection anyway. And if Evan Bayh was going to quit, why didn't he go out swinging instead of going out like a pussy bitch for the insurance industry? Even Clinton showed more moxy than Obama, issuing over 30 vetoes, only one of which was overridden by Congress.
And Obama sure seemed willing to go to the mat when it came to free trade agreements.
There's your evidence.
in his 30 year empirical study of Authoritarian Personality, Dr. Bob Altemeyer replicated the famed Milgram experiment, and got similar results, but then he modified it, he added a second "subject", also an actor, to resist the command to shock someone. When that subject resisted, the first "subject" in the experiment would then also resist the command.
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
Authoritarians are bullies, they push their view on others weaker than themselves. That is why they attack minorities, the elderly, immigrants, gays, etc. Standing up to them is the exact way to stop them from this destructive behavior. It is because the Dems have shown a willingness to compromise, that trait has been turned into a liability, a perceived weakness, to be used against any meaningful form of opposition to the Authoritarian agenda.
You are making the argument that in order to stop the Right, we must enable them to strengthen their positions.
of his administration and one on the most legislatively productive Houses ever to sit with what happened after the mid term elections. You assert that only progressives had their arms figuratively twisted in those first two years but you don't know that. You do not know what discussions took place any more than I do. But I can read the political lay of the land and I know what I saw happen publicly.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
and what is known. We know that Obama went to Ohio to convince Kucinich to vote for the deal. We know that Lincoln, Landrieu, Bayh, et al. opposed the public option. We know which side won. We know about the insults levied at progressives by Emanuel, Gibbs and Obama. That is what you saw happen publicly. From that, and from the legislation that was produced, you should be able to deduce what happened privately.
Want to link back to our last exchange on this?
Rahm's "that's fucking retarded" comment was not an insult to progressives, it was his description of an advertising campaign aimed at Democrats. If some progressives made it into an insult to all progressives, it indicates they are both liars and hold most of their fellow progressive in intellectual contempt.
You have tried to play a quote attributed to Rahm by only one person during the auto industry bailout as an insult, and when confronted with the fact that the head of the Union supposedly insulted did not choose to respond with anything other than compliments of Rahm's role, your respoonse was to attack the union official.
As for Gibbs, his comments were more than inappropriate for a press secretary, but they were never displayed by the reporter in any context to know exactly who he was referring to. They were definitely aimed at media types in the beltway in response to criticisms of the administration. The point of the questions was to get his reaction to criticism for the left, not the right.
As for your charge about Obama, the last time you dropped this turd in the commentary punchbowl; and I called you on it, all you could come up with were the two Rahm quotes and the Gibbs interview. You could offer nothing from Obama.
Quit perpetrating falsehoods.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
They aren't falsehoods. I'm sorry the truth bothers you so much. Here he is calling progressives "sanctimonious." That's an insult. Plus, he's being dishonest in a couple different ways. He says, "The New York Times editorial page does not permeate across all of America. Neither does the Wall Street Journal editorial page."
Haha. The New York Times editorial page is his example of the Left. The same editorial page that banged the drum for war during the Bush administration. That's his example of liberal opinion. Not only that, but we know from multiple sources that he bargained away the public option early in the process, and he made people believe it was still on the table long after he had dealt it away. Members of the hospital lobby have said this, Tom Daschle has said this, and now former White House insider Richard Kirsch has said it.
The White House had negotiated a number of deals with the health industry, designed to win their support for reform, including agreeing to oppose a robust public option, which would have the greatest clout to control how much providers got paid,” writes Kirsch, largely confirming what has become an open secret in Washington.
Also, saying that Obama's critics should be drug tested, as Gibbs did, is an insult. Saying "fuck the UAW," as Emanuel did, is an insult.
We can bat this back and forth all you want, ricky. I will continue to be right and you will continue to be wrong. As I've said before, I admire your persistence. It's just too bad that you persist in being wrong.
Oh, geez. What a load of rubbish. I particularly like this bit:
If they tried it some time, even once, we could find out.
far left loon >.<
Proof, link???? Or is it one of your opinions?
far left loon >.<
Yes there is:
Payroll Tax
Bullies understand and respect one thing: Power.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
The US was attacked on 911 by conservatives.
Why are we fighting conservatives over there when they are already here
Problem is that the attack hasn't ended yet.
And if she is, it will only be in the most obscure spots. Conservative blowhards don't do segments with opponents who can make fact-based arguments simply and firmly.
See how frustrated that guy was at the end of the segment? He's probably never had to actually defend his nonsense before-- only sing it to the choir, and cut off the occasional caller and berate them once they're gone.
Three cheers Sally you kick this ASS WIPE, TURD square in the BALLS and he flinched. You know this TURDS are scared and the IDIOTS at Faux noise have NO intention of letting anyone speak against their Ideology as proven by the brain Dead ASS WIPE TURD that kept interrupting you and shouting over you.
Yup! the ASS WIPE TURDS of the right know their days are numbered, but move on to a REAL TV station that will allow a REAL discussion.
Notice how Kohn is interrupted by Webb 5 seconds after she started talking, while Webb was given 58 clean seconds for his opening remarks. Then as Kohn starts talking again she only gets 21 seconds before she is interrupted again by Webb! Typical Fox tactics. Later she strikes back at Webb and shuts him up by saying: "excuse me, I'm talking". Good job by Kohn.
who is this David Webb dipshit...........what a rude prick. Fuck him........
Indeed, sideways, with a stick. What a loud mouthed jackass. First time I've ever seen him, and it will be the last. He's a fantasy guest for Fox though, no doubt he'll get a contract too.
Keeeeep hopin'. These people are morons.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
What a loud-mouthed, rude, moronic fool. Sally did well, but it's pointless to even try when a "thing" like David Webb is involved. He simply shouts down anything he doesn't want to hear. A True Teabagger!
By the end of it, I realized why this Congress will never get anything done
Yeah. I'm not getting it. Because these two can't agree or compromise on Fux TV, neither can Congress?
far left loon >.<
Conservative idiot talks, flames, lies and rambles uninterrupted.
Liberal talks and BAM! Interruptions, sniping and crosstalk.
Forgive me if I am less than excited about this segment.
I'm just superstitious enough to hedge my bets.
but with themselves and their backers
that is how we got here
Once again the Tea party/Republican hack is rude, interrupts and fillibusters for most of the segment and the liberal is interuppted continuously. The Lib woman should have said something very rude to that republican talking point hack and give him both barrels. They, the republitards, know how to interrupt so that a cogent and well presented argument is never mentioned without interupption. If I was that woman I would have just sat there and said..." Well you let me know when you are finished fillibustering ....I still get paid even if you don't allow me to talk and present my case against your rubbish talking points"!
stephen
Oh come on its only 88 dollars really who needs that...not us millionairs of course"
stephen
The problem with this statement is that it originates from an assumption that Fox viewers don't already know who is and isn't willing to compromise, and will be outraged when they are informed of the facts.
The fact, however, is that I shared this clip with two Fox viewers of my personal experience, and they thought Webb sounded like a hero for his no-compromise attitude. They called it "sticking to his principles." I am sure they are not unique.
The Tea Partiers in Congress did not invent the unreasonable no-compromise Tea Party agenda. They come from a pool of Tea Partiers who share the same unreasonable no-compromise agenda and who are thrilled to see Republicans in Congress bowing to their whims. Showing them how unreasonable their representatives are does not shame them, but instead stokes their pride.
Sally Kohn has been a frequent guest on Fox News for a while now and she has been consistently terrific. I doubt she'll retreat from any of her positions or fail to argue them less intelligently. My concern is whether going on the Fox News payroll will now give her an incentive to be just a bit less feisty. Almost certainly, she'll avoid criticizing Fox News. Not that I've ever heard her do so in the past but now she's officially "part of the family" as I heard her say on the air.
I'm a supporter of Democrats and liberals going on Fox but I think it's just as important to confront their tactics as it is to advocate any political position. By going on their payroll, Kohn has, I'm afraid, ensured that that strategy has been taken off the table.
THIS IS THE WORST MISTAKE THAT SENILE OLD COOT MURDOCH COULD EVER MAKE!!! Ive heard Sally, with her sneering, crooked mouth & rolling eyes, slam the Teaparty, & PRETEND ows CRAPPING ON POLICE CARS, have so much MORE credibility!!! laughable and sad, shes so DELUSIONAL!!! First of all Fox demographics, are 10% lesbian, 60% straight!! 30% other, So Murdoch cant even get his own demographic correct!! As a lesbian, she disgusts me!! With her scripted SOROS AGENDA!! talking points!! But, how does he hire a chick that is directly associated with SOROS!!! and, the lowball tactics of his associations, which are all involved with,CONTROLLING OUR MEDIA, THOUGHT, AND MESSAGE!! They are concentrating, in every area of our lives!! On destroying our ECONOMY, dollar, and OUR COUNTRY!! Is Sally moving to China, when hes done?? His main mission worldwide was to bring FOX DOWN!! and, now he has..from WITHIN!! Is Murdoch stupid?? or did he just..BEND OVER?? SALLY IS DISGUSTINGLY BIASED AND A COMMUNIST!! Not A LIB!!! FOX was going downhill, only because they started spewing LEFTIST DEM PROPAGANDA!! BUT, NOW?? FOX IS DONE!! WELL DONE RUPERT!! You sold America out!!!! To Sally, you may think you're slick?? and, got past the guards at the GATES OF AMERICAS FREEDOM?? You didnt!! We see you for the exact -THING!! -that you are. That goes for SOROS too!! He can buy up the world, it matters not. In the end hes an old bitter crazy man, who ruined the entire World, for FUN [in his own words!] AND GREED!!! Hes manipulated our govt laws, money, financial system, using Wallstreet!! Now, he controls the majority of our media!! **ALL MONOPOLIES ARE CORRUPT!! He will buy another president, & put him in the WhiteHouse!! FOX.. was the only thing standing BETWEEN SOROS & his sick World Domination plan!! WHY?? because they outed him, for his true intentions!! I have no affiliations with anyone, but my country!! I can well identify, those that are destroying our Country!!! SALLY.....IS ONE OF THEM. To be clear.. NEVER liked WEBB!!! BUT, FOXSHAREHOLDERS?? Just lost their Network & Investment!! FOX, at least, had LESS lies, than the other networks!! You listening ALWALEED??? WE Dont want to see this WITCH.. on our TV. Shes not speaking for WOMEN!! or, for hard working Americans!!! SHES SPEAKING for the Sheeplike-brainwashed -handout crowd!! Actually shes using them!! Just like Soros, for their own AGENDA!! Shes CLEARLY used them, for a career ladder!!! They dont need her either!!! A SELF PROMOTING, FRAUD, doesnt help anyone!! **progressives/socialists are Communists!! NOT LIBS!! Get that straight!! Check out the Democratic SOCIALISTS of America -Educate, yourself, on the trash, ruining our Country!! -Goodbye Fox. & ALL MSM!!!
Message to Trolls.. dont waste my time, you need a brain for this debate!! Have FACTS..or get lost! Everything said, is public knowledge.
I can tell you feel strongly about this, but let me give you a little hint as a professional editor:
Paragraphs are your friends. Also, double exclamation points are a sign of an unhinged mind. People will judge accordingly.
unhinged.. FUNNY, troll..Dont you mean FACTUAL.
Message to Trolls.. dont waste my time, you need a brain for this debate!! Have FACTS..or get lost! Everything said, is public knowledge.
Factual? That's funny.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/21/news/...
See? I didn't use any double exclamation points.
But in point of fact, yes. I am on the payroll here. So I'd avoid the whole name calling thing, since I have the power to make you go bye bye.
You also have no future in comedy, its cliche, and mediocre.
Message to Trolls.. dont waste my time, you need a brain for this debate!! Have FACTS..or get lost! Everything said, is public knowledge.
I'll make it easy for you.
You tell me what "communist" and "socialist" means and how Sally Kohn gets money from Soros and where you get your demographic information that 10% of Fox viewers are lesbians.
Bonus points if you can prove that Murdoch gets money from Soros. Because, you know, Rupert is really hurting for cash. I can totally see him usurping control from Roger Ailes for personal gain.
Fox tells them daily that they will not be cool if they pay any attention to another news source. "LAMESTREAM MEDIA" is the coded label they use to dismiss all other news sources. It's like in high school, when a jock calls somebody a name and continually uses the term until others begin using it - it doesn't even register to the followers that they are the A-holes and spewing mis-information - they are too busy feeling important and and a part of something that they are not. The jocks - like the millionaires - don't give a fudge (you know what I REALLY mean there!) about their followers and would easily sell each one of them out without even ever thinking about the incident ever again. And the followers will be left with their legacy of being A-holes AND being rejected by their heroes. It's all a matter of time!
FrankenDeal
Because of the Military Industrial Congressional Complex. That's the original term coined by Eisenhower.
But at the last moment, he removed "Congressional" from it. His reason was because there was some honest bipartisan efforts for the betterment of the country. He didn't want to lump the good in with the bad. He should have. Because it's been growing ever since. It exploded under Bush2. Literally exploded.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
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