Ground Zero and the Zero-Sum Mindset
New York's governor weighed in on the Cordoba House yesterday, claiming his efforts at arranging an "alternate" site were close to fruition. Paterson might as well find an "alternate" bridge to cross the Alabama River -- why march through Selma when you can go miles out of your way and cross at Prattville? -- or an "alternate" lunch counter to Woolworth's, or an "alternate" drinking fountain, or even an "alternate" seat on the bus. As in the Civil Rights Era, there cannot be a neutral ground.
If I seem harsh, it's because I earned the right to be harsh about this. A few weeks ago I noticed a loss of feeling in three toes of my left foot; this is the latest sign of degeneration from the damage my lumbar spine sustained while serving my country. You'll excuse me if I take freedom very seriously, and not merely my own but that of others. To progressives, there is no difference; to regressives, the rights of one subtract from the rights of another. The relative distance of a mosque or community center or titty bar from 'ground zero' makes no difference to the zero-sum mindset, which is why regressives seem impervious to facts.
The president gets this. Last weekend he reframed the debate around Cordoba House by separating the question of whether Manhattan's Muslim community has the right to build Cordoba House from the question of whether it is right to build it at 51 Park Place. Polls show that most Americans get the first part, agreeing Muslims have a "right" to build at that location -- even though the same polls show a majority doesn't think it is the right thing to do. The difference is more than semantic.
If two people each have fifty marbles, the total number of marbles in the game can never exceed 100. If one player wins a marble, the other has to lose one of theirs. That is how the right has consistently framed every civil rights issue since 1969. Senator Jeff Sessions, for instance, framed the Sotomayor SCOTUS nomination this way when he declared that “empathy for one party is always prejudice against another.” In the regressive mind, a job for a brown person is one less job for whites (Jesse Helms' "white hands" ad comes to mind). Pat Buchanan opined that Republicans should
(E)xpose Sotomayor...as a political activist whose career bespeaks a lifelong resolve to discriminate against white males to the degree necessary to bring about an equality of rewards in society.
Of course, Buchanan now says that Newt Gingrich has "gone too far" in his comments about Cordoba House, a sign of just how different the rhetorical terrain has become in the wake of the president's statements.
The regressive mind sees all ethnic groups in competitive opposition on a Malthusian landscape of scarcity. Even empathy becomes a limited resource. Here is where we find the origin of all prejudice: the leap from racism to chauvinism, homophobia, Islamophobia, and back again, is a small one. Why ban gay marriage? Because it will (supposedly) hurt straight marriage. Why can't women earn the same wage as men for the same work? Because it will (somehow) hurt masculine breadwinning prerogatives. The same goes for Cordoba House, transformed by Pamela Geller and her cohort into a potential "victory trophy" for "Islam" -- as if that religion was monolithic. Perhaps the best recent example is Florida Republican House candidate Allen West's statement that drivers with COEXIST bumper-stickers want to "give away our country."
The right has successfully framed the issue as one of loss versus gain because the word "Muslim" invokes negative associations. The president, quite obviously an indirect subject of this Islamophobia-mongering, has responded by framing the Cordoba House as rights versus what is right. While I disagree with Paterson, Howard Dean, and Harry Reid, none of them has argued that Manhattan's Muslims don't have the right to build a community center. Unlike the president, however, all three have weighed in on the rightness of the project's location -- and this actually changes the debate in a direction Pamela Geller and Newt Gingrich didn't want to go.
The goal of their outrage is denial of rights. When Karl Rove compares a community center to "a neo-Nazi meeting at a Jewish hotel," he's trying to cast Islam as illegitimate. Geller also denies the legitimacy of Islam even as she pretends to respect it. Pat Robertson famously tried to argue that Islam is not a religion at all (and therefore not protected by the Constitution, one surmises). It's the same old culture-war wedge. But all of that goes out the window when the debate is about the rightness of the location rather than the Muslim citizens' right to have a community center in their own neighborhood.
Which brings me back to my toes and my spine and the distance (or lack thereof) that lends excuse to the hatemongers. From the outer perimeter of the holier-than-thou-of-holies to 45 and 51 Park Place is almost exactly 99 strides at a marching pace, which makes me want to visit New York City and ask the haters if one more step is far enough for a disabled vet to pray in peace. Even if I'm not Muslim, I suffered injury defending the right of every American to pray (or not) as their god moves them (or not), and I will remain forever inflexible on this point.

My first post here at C&L...fire away, don't be gentle.
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And I thought you did rather well.
Excellent post and Welcome Aboard.
"Let's talk dirty to the animals"
This is a wedge issue and Fox and the far right wing nuts will keep pushing your and every other bloggers buttons as long as you and the democrats keep responding. Quit giving them a platform to shill from.
Someone needs to beat the shit out of anyone using the word "Islamofascist" or "Islamofascism" in a purportedly serious context. Somehow the level of debate has been lowered to slinging poo. And they think we aren't related to monkeys...
If you ignore Pamela Geller, et al that doesn't make them go away. In fact, Geller got this far because no one ever called her out.
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same subject today and it shouldn't be a front page story on any newspaaper, tv show or blog. If you all treat it as a nonissue it will go away. They use your dissent to ramp up the rhetoric.
Ron, hopefully the more we talk about it the more people will see that it isn't a critical issue and maybe just come to the realization that in this country the laws mean something and triumph over emotions and even fake emotions. At least I sure as hell hope so because if we start down this dark road it gets dark for everyone.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
than pissed off patricia not about the blog but the MSM involving every politicaal figure across the country about it. It shouldn't be a political argument, it is a NYC issue.
Hey, I'm a happy camper about most things. Especially when it's Friday afternoon and all is quiet on my homestead front.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
to cocktail hour for you.
Hour and a half until Happy Hour for the humans here. Martini already had his Happy Hour when he had his dog food. Every hour is happy hour for that little dude and he makes most of my hours happy as well. It really is all good.
Things like this Mosque deal are frustrating to me because I don't understand people who aren't happy unless they are bitching about something that makes no sense. Not building a cultural center on a piece of land because of something that happened nine years ago two blocks away is just bitching for bitching's sake and makes no common sense. Judging by how long it has taken to do any building at the WTC, this cultural center probably won't be built for years to come.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Muslims worship on Fridays
And never drink cocktails...
...Heathens...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
OMG, wasn't it on a Friday when the President had the beer summit with the professor and the cop? He is a terrible Muslim.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Religious rights is a constitutional, religious liberty... federal civil-rights issue, and you don't think so?
Study the symptoms not the virus...
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Dear ron,
Have the Extremist Americans ignored this issue?
If we ignore them and their wedge issues and let their rhetoric and divisiveness take over...
... WHO WINS?
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Feed Americans.
"If you all treat it as a nonissue it will go away."
I hear what yer sayin', but Palin didn't just go away, and these haters won't either.
PS welcome aboard Matt.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
we've got to call them on their lies.and welcome to the best blog on the web.
....the fools do not realize,a population that can ,..... not paticipate .............in the 'economy'...,can not keep it viable!..........."we are listening,.......and we're not blind.,......this is your life....this is your time."
Thank you for your service and thank you for lending your credibility as a veteran to defend both the letter and spirit of the First Amendment. An eloquent and articulate message.
Can't wait to read more!
Very well written, too. Thank you very much.
I repeat: Terrific work.
As I said in a thread last week. This spineless crop of Democrats would have never passed the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
They probably wouldn't have wanted to alienate white voters. Sigh.
Let's compromise!
"Blacks will be allowed to drive past polling places on election days, and whites promise not to shoot at them or lynch them."
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqywPx1A_k4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPr7DwOXOtY
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Get lost. We can handle it.
And Patterson's idea of government support for an alternative location violates the 1st amendment.
...an alternative lunch counter, or an alternative school, or an alternative place on the bus. That's exactly what it is, and everyone suggesting it should be called out for it.
I liked the those things too. It brings the whole thing into focus even for those who wish not to focus on anything except the word "Muslim".
Just a couple of weeks or so ago the shiny thing was people coming over the border and having babies. Some elected officials were seriously talking about changing the 14th amendment. There is some desperation going on in this country and most of it comes from the right as mid term elections approach. This is no time to play with the constitution or the laws our country was built upon.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I agree, they really do seem desperate for a wedge don't they.
They can no longer govern as we have all seen.
"Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob"
-= Franklin Delano Roosevelt =-
any opinions on AZ's immigration law?
Sure, lots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tfNCUD97iA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoUGTW1WGpE
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I was posting in response to Nixxon who said it's the people of Manhattan's business so butt out.
We do hate and fear better than anyone else in the world.
American exceptionalism at its worst.
CaliforniaMike blogs at All Voices and at his own blogs, http://www.mikerappaport.net/onevoice and at http://oneminutewithmike.blogspot.com.
!!!111!!!!!
ONE! Yeah!
me-oww!
I have not heard it put any better! And thank you for your service!
.
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Very fine post and I hope you find a treatment that can remedy the lumbar degeneration.
I came across this clip on YouTube:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9KpuffLcL4
recorded on September 14,2001 in Manhattan. Considering the time and location, I was struck by the civility of this confrontation.
It's frightening to see how far we've regressed since then.
Dialogue! As long as you're still talking, there's still hope for peace.
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these are the Freedoms you fought for, that the right always claims, when it's convenient for them
me-oww!
Particularly struck by how you encapsulated the Right's "Us vs Them" mentality. It never occurs to them that, for example, if you closed the pay gap between men and women, men would benefit too.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
But thanks for the compliment!
I like to think she might have been.
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I wonder something why we bother... Oh yeah because IT IS THE RIGHT FUCKING THING TO DO!!!
This whole issue, as most others, is a direct result of the god virus... it's a world-wide phenomenon. Dont'cha know
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Then there are many viruses, and religions are just one class. I call statist-authoritarianism a kind of religion; Glenn Beck has a regular cult -- and I do not exaggerate:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-osborne/i-...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-osborne/gl...
Thing is, he can never ever get away with telling people to believe in golden plates.
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Matt welcome to C&L.
I have no bone to pick with you because I agree with you. I really don't think ground zero has anything to do with this fight, there are people fighting against Mosques being built all across the US right now. This particular one is getting the sympathy and has become the poster Mosque for everyone who just plain doesn't want Muslims in their territory. Okay, let's say they move the site ten blocks farther away, what about the Muslims who live within two blocks of ground zero? They will now have to walk ten more blocks to go to a place to worship. Why should this happen to them when they had zero to do with 9-11?
You sound like a good guy and I like your writing style as well as the content so instead of throwing a punch, I'll throw you an adult beverage if you like. If you don't like, I'll drink it myself in ahout two hours.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Somehow that started me thinking about "Some animals are more equal than others"...
Religious freedom is freedom to worship (or not, if you choose) so long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Muslims, despite the yammering on cable "news", don't hurt people, any more than every Catholic rapes little boys.
there is no question that immam rauf and his backers have the right to build this mosque, they really don't have to explain anything; same thing with gay marriage, equal protection, no explanation necessary.
a person does not have to like either of these things, in point of fact anyone's opinion, for and against, is immaterial.
where i part ways with this analysis, is the zero-sum game analogy, although i do agree the right has been using the tactic. the reason i disagree is that in some cases it is a zero-sum game in that there are only so many resources, or jobs, for an example. just because the right uses a truth as part of an argument, does not mean it is not true, it is all in the intention.
you state that "In the regressive mind, a job for a brown person is one less job for whites", i would state that in my mind, a job for an illegal alien is one less job for an american, of whatever color.
you further state that "The regressive mind sees all ethnic groups in competitive opposition on a Malthusian landscape of scarcity." the fact is that on a finite planet with a growing population, we may very well find ourselves on a malthusian landscape, once again, regardless of ethnicity. my personal belief it that the capitalist system creates a condition of scarcity, but this is not my point.
i question the wisdom of the headlong embrace of any religion, and have since i was a small child, no matter how much they tried to indoctrinate me.
i agree with patricia in that this is not about the cordoba house, but more of a referendum on islam, and the place of religion in america, but especially about islam. if any one has access to my previous posts they will find a complete rundown of most of the coups we have sponsored in the muslim/arab lands over the last century, so i am not ignorant of the history.
it should be noted that the latest attack is the immam's remarks about 911, which are similar to ward churchill's and rev. wrights, perfectly true, but they will be twisted.
i think it is good that there is controversy about this mosque, and islam in general, because world-wide there are plenty of questions regarding the practices of islam, especially as concerning women's rights. even though i may diverge from many opinions here on this site, one should never assume what kind of twisted reasonig is behind them.
Or Blue Moon and a shot of SoCo when I'm feeling utterly decadent.
I'm not allowed to do buttery nipples anymore.
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on this subject with regard to the fundamental right of Muslims to build their community center wherever building codes permit you might want to be careful about pitching this as a left/right issue. It cannot have escaped anyone's notice that some Republicans are risking banishment to the political wilderness because they recognize those very rights and there are Democrats who are either surrendering to the hysteria or actively backing it.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
And it's the result of the rhetorical shift I described. It was after Obama spoke that one (ONE!) writer at National Review Online wrote up a principled stand on property rights, Ted Olson and Pat Buchanan called out Newt Gingrich, Gov. Christie supported the 1st Amendment, etc. They did that because the president changed the nature of the debate.
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triumphs again. What is this, the fourth libs on libs post?
"I mean Romney is the most conservative on illegal immigration and I don't think Ronald Reagan could get elected in California today."
Ann "Clipped" Coulter
USS Liberty/ Israel posts any day when it comes to hits. And that's saying something.
Hasa Diga Eebowai
...which one of you two is going to play the role of Paul's clean grandfather in the remake of A Hard Day's Night? Because you've both got the villain/mixer thing down.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
more along the lines of Lou Grant. Waistline? Check. Irascibility? Check
Hasa Diga Eebowai
Okay, I'll give ricky dibs on the role, although I could probably play it myself. I've got the waistline and spectacles, as well as the Irish lineage.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
Hey Ricky, lighten up a little. It's Friday and Matt's first post here. It's only right that he express his own personal view on the subject. Don't make me come over there to Texas and give you a spankin'.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
has already "triumphed" in the sense she has used up the news cycle. HOWEVER (and this is for a future post), Pam Atlas was under the radar of 99% of liberal/progressive/independents before this and her newfound fame can be a millstone around the necks of Palin, Gingrich, et al. if we just dare to hang it on them.
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.
Insisting that Muslim Americans bear the brunt of the 9/11 pain only confirms that American Extremists are winning the fight of the declining American Principle. OBL and al-Qaeda haven't had better allies. al-Qaeda need not attack us for our FREEDOMS when there are Americans in our midst that would do it for them.
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Feed Americans.
I only look at it as a Faith-Based Initiative. :P
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Imagine how the deficite would be reduced if we taxed all these "non-profits" that fund these Faith Based Initiatives.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Feed Americans.
Imagine...
David Kuo/External Links..."Prominent Right-Wing Activist Smears Kuo As Member Of ‘Axis Of Evil’ "
Study the symptoms not the virus...
But really...
... What is left to consume once the snake has eaten it's tail?
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Feed Americans.
very well reasoned. I've stayed away from this issue because I can see both sides. My own personal feeling is let them build, however I understand why others say it's too close (hey, 99 steps for a New Yorker is like a walk to the kitchen).
It's too bad this has recieved so much play when it doesn't really address any of the much more important issues facing this country.
"damage my lumbar spine"... I'm sure Christopher Reeve had a good idea of your unfortunate situation. Maybe if you could afford to get to Israel, you could find some relief like Christopher did?
In July 2003, Christopher Reeve's continuing frustration with the pace of stem cell research in the U.S. led him to Israel...
Study the symptoms not the virus...
"How long was I in there?"
Door guard of stem-cell clinic: About five minutes.
Peter: "WHY ARE WE NOT FUNDING THIS?!"
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The celebrity right-wing ideologues will never stop seeking and pounding on wedge issues. That's their game, their bread and butter, their entire reason for being. Without it, they suffer a fate worse than death - obscurity. So ignoring them will not make it go away in all cases. Sometimes that will work completely (Obama the Kenyan). Sometimes it'll only work for a while (Obama the Muslim). And sometimes you have to hit head on early and often (Rev. Wright). The top PR people in Washington are paid to figure out which of those three categories any new issue falls into. And sometimes they get it wrong. But we cannot assume that any one methodology will work in all cases. That simply isn't true, as any PR pro will tell us.
So a simple formula is this: when the wedge issue is confined mostly to the choir within its own amplification circuit, leave it alone. But when it hops the fence and becomes a "legitimate" news story, you have to get ahead of the facts immediately, as in yesterday. The smartest PR teams plan for all eventualities and activate the best plan at the last possible moment, meaning right before it becomes a net negative. There are fantastic ideas coming from blogs and social media, but broadcast TV and radio are still dominant. I'm worried less about fighting on conservative turf (where we still win on the facts!) than I am about progressive in-fighting that can inadvertently give better talking points to right-wingers than they can usually dream up on their own.
Breitbart should not be taken seriously. Any reference to him or his websites should be absolutely necessary and all media outlets should be notified and asked for comment whenever found linking to, or mentioning, the name Breitbart or the names of any of his websites without the qualifier "KNOWN NEWS FABRICATOR".
Same with Pamela Geller. Their names should be synonymous with "fake," "ginned-up," and "charlatan." There needs to be a mass-media shunning and those who insist on connecting to or mentioning them in any way without the words "KNOWN NEWS FABRICATOR" prominently included should be considered fruit of a poisonous tree.
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We should create the equivalent of the "BIOHAZARD" logo, or "NUCLEAR SHELTER" marker, or something with an equally toxic-looking treatment and insist it accompany EVERY piece of material those jackals pump out. Kinda like those cute "journalism warning labels" but with "yellow-jacket" stripes... and skulls!
Weren't the Twin Towers an economic target?
Wasn't (isn't?) Bin Laden a non-practicing Muslim, if a Muslim at all? He was ousted by a number of religious sects in the middle east, right? That's way the hijackers were a mix of Islamic faiths. If they were really of any faith, after all their behavior in the US was far from the righteous acts of men about to get their heavenly reward.
Anybody else remember this? Hitting the World Trade Center was not an act of religious fury. Rather it was a punch to the world economy. If that is true, I believe I'm correct here, then shouldn't we be demanding Wall St. be relocated? Anywhere but New York, maybe Canada.
Yahtzee!
But you see, the truth does not fit the G(no)P meme...
FEAR the Hispanics (the NEW Gypsy)
FEAR the Muslims (the NEW Jew)
FEAR the Gays (well, DUH!)
.
Starve the WAR Beast...
... Feed Americans.
They mention Wall St. in this C&L's clip...
Study the symptoms not the virus...
I remember it being an attack on our economic structure too, but there have been so many different stories that I don't know what's what any more. I also thought it was because we had military bases in Saudi Arabia.
Wait, didn't bush say the attacks were because they hated our freedoms? And what are we talking about here? Freedoms! No one can take those away but we could give them away and that would be a true sin.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
No one hates you for your freedom: we hate you because your country is run by assholes.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjNgn4r6SOA&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
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That's my top-rated comment on YouTube. I get emails all the time agreeing with me and thanking me for saying it.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
another frame: If conservative white folks manage to get the brown folks deported, then those white folks or their children will be obliged to pick our lettuce and make our hotel beds for under minimum wage. This disturbs me because they likely will spit on our lettuce and piss in our beds out of resentment.
In that sense, the attacks were aimed at symbols of the American system that had taken over the world from 1945-2001. The jihadis in the cockpits imagined they could start Armageddon and destroy the American global system to make way for a new "godly" one. Al Qaeda literally had NO PLAN for what came next (i.e. there were no follow-on attacks) because they actually did not plan that far ahead.
And really, in a sense the attacks worked. Bush and Cheney tried really, really hard to give al Qaeda the worldwide conflagration of their dreams.
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Personally, I think ObL is a genius. Following the attacks, he's been able to sit back (in his air-conditioned cave) and watch America self-destruct without having to lift another finger. Americans have inflicted more damage on their own country than any foreign agent could ever hope to.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
No joke , you're right Ed . The Repug / Reich wing anarchists are literally destroying this country , all of this chaos and madness is their doing and you bet , they do know exactly what they are doing .These tactics aren't new , the very same methods have been used before , in Germany for instance .
It made me cry for all of the wrongs that have been done to so many.
OK , lets ban Catholic churches from being within two miles of any public school , park or play field .
"OK , lets ban Catholic churches
from being within two miles of any public school , park or play field."FIFY
"I could give a flying crap about the political process.... We're an entertainment company."
- Glenn Beck - Forbes interview; April 26, 2010
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