About That Loaded Imagery: Racism in "Post Partisan" America
By Nicole Belle Thursday Feb 19, 2009 3:00pmThere is nothing that disgusts me more than the view of four privileged white men known for their conservative views sitting around and discussing whether they found the NY Post cartoon of yesterday racist, as they did this morning on Morning Joe. ("I didn't think it was racist; did you find it racist, Pat Buchanan?" "I didn't, Joe, and I think Halperin will back me up on that. You know, blacks can be so sensitive sometimes." Not an exact transcript, but close enough) And as expected, they brought up the fact that Bush had been portrayed as a chimp frequently.
Talking about missing the forest for the trees. It wasn't just the metaphor of the chimp, but the fact that the chimp was shot dead by the cops. Remind me again when any political commentator EVER suggested killing Bush or even the Bushchimp? Oh that's right, never. 1600 Penn guest and blogger at Jack & Jill Politics, Baratunde Thurston reminds us of the long, sordid history of conflating African Americans with primates and police brutality:
I mentioned that a psychologist at UCLA has studied the link between seeing blacks as apes, monkeys, etc and treating them brutally. [..]The psychologist is Dr. Phillip A. Goff. I actually attended undergrad with him which is why I’m familiar with his work. [..]
In short, what Dr. Goff and his colleagues have found is a clear connection between the psychology of racism and real harm to black people. Further, they have been working with police departments across the nation to study their records, analyze their people and adjust their training in order to save the lives of black people and improve the effectiveness of policing. This is truly where the academy meets the streets.
Next week in NYC, on February 26, there will be a summit on racial and gender bias in policing and the need to expand these studies and their remedies. Here’s an article Dr. Goff wrote yesterday in response to the NY Post cartoon. I strongly urge you to read the entire thing and follow the links.
Little Things Are Still a Big Deal
[..]Though much of the reaction to the cartoon has been outrage at the implication that our 44th president is remotely simian, there have been other messages in the blogosphere as well. A few pleaded with us to see reason in this post-Obama era. They begged us to understand that the cartoonist clearly meant to impugn congress, Wall Street executives and academic economists and that there was no racial subtext to the piece. Others saw the cartoon as racist but declined to become outraged. Saw the injustice in the image, but saw it as a minor injustice, not one worth worrying too much about. After all, having a black president means that America is post-racial and does not need to worry about petty things like harmless pictures in a paper.
The messages in my inbox mirrored the commentaries I saw online. A few (though not many) defending the cartoon. Many more exasperated with indifference. All of them insisted this was a little thing.
The best science available suggests otherwise.
For the better part of the past seven years, my colleagues and I have conducted research on the psychological phenomenon of dehumanization. Specifically, we have examined cognitive associations between African Americans and non-human apes. And the association leads to bad things. When we began the research, we were skeptical of whether or not participants even knew that people of African descent were caricatured as ape-like — as less than human — throughout the better part of the past 400 years. And, in fact, many were not. However, even those who were unaware of this historical association demonstrated a cognitive association between blacks and apes. That is, when they thought of apes, they thought of blacks and vice versa — when they thought of blacks, they thought of apes.
But the fact of this cognitive association was not the most disturbing part of the research. Rather, it was the fact that the association between blacks and apes could lead to violence.
In one study, participants who were made to think about apes were more likely to support police violence against black (but not white) criminal suspects. The association actually caused them to endorse anti-black violence. Most disturbing of all, however, was a study of media coverage and the death penalty. Looking at a sample of death-eligible cases in Philadelphia from 1979 to 1999, the more that media coverage used ape-like metaphors to describe a murder trial (i.e. “urban jungle,” “aping the suspects behavior,” etc.) the more likely black suspects, but not white suspects were to be put to death.
Not surprisingly, black suspects were much more likely to be described in ape-like terms. And they were more frequently executed by the state.
Pam Spaulding: I'm glad we don't have to worry about racism any more.
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...the chimp with Obama.
The first time I saw it I thought of the chimp who almost ripped that womans face off. And also, why would it be Obama when congress wrote the stimulus package?
Obama is the face of the stimulus package. Not seeing a link between the cartoon and that very fact shows how racially insensitive you really are.
My fiancee is Kenyan. My roommate is african-american. I'm mixed. And I'm somehow insensitive?
I merely stated what my original reaction to this was, and it wasn't to equate the chimp with Obama. Rather, I equated the chimp - who went out of control and attacked a 55 year old man - with congress going out of control.
I didn't even know it was the POST.
Puhhhlease.
I haven't read everyone's comments yet, but there's racism and then there's something-that-is-vaguely-like-racism-but-probably-isn't-unless-you-REALLY-want-it-to-be, and I think this falls in the second category.
I mean-- every minority group has some kind of animal slur-- it's ineveitable right? Jews and rats, Blacks and monkeys, Irish & pigs, WASPS and wasps (?) ... eventually you all knew some clueless cartoonist was going to step in it and piss people off. I'm surprised it took this long actually.
I'm not sure I even understand waht the hell the cartoon was saying-- how DOES the out of control monkey and the stimulus package relate? But that faux outrage that David Serota was writing about a few days back cuts both ways.
This one doesn't pass the smell test. It's not overt. Yeah, we can pretend we're outraged and maybe even talk ourselves and others into feeling offended, but basically it's like... c'mon, really? Does some lame confusing editorial really deserve this much attention?
Just as there are many racist animal stereotypes, there are a billion animal idioms and a cartoonist is eventually going to end up crossing them. And a reporter will refer to Obama as "the pot calling the kettle black" or something about calling "a spade a spade" or refer to a million monkeys at typewriters or something with no deliberate racist association at all, but someone will notice it, it'll go on Youtube, everyone will get outraged, it'll re-enforce everyone's opinion about "secret subconcious racism", an apology will be issued, someone may get fired, and then it'll blow over.
Can't we all just get along?
Eh. I'd expect more of this.
W
And maybe I pay too much attention to politics, but I never considered Obama to be the "face of the stimulus package".
I think of Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Chris Dodd and Harry Reid (and also John Bone-er and Cantor crying like little babies).
But what do I know, I'm just some ignorant racist.
Trust me...this is ALL about racism and has NOTHING to do with a news story about police having to shoot a chimpanzee at the Bronx Zoo because it attacked a woman.
Nothing at all...no way...no how....
Seriously guys, this is like the first season of 'The Apprentice' when Omarosa said something hypocritical (which would become a regular thing for her as the season wore on) and one of the other contestants said 'Thats the pot calling the kettle black' and Omarosa, rather than trying to resolve her hypocrasy, accused the contestant of being racist. After the season was over she accused Donald Trump of sexism and called a contestant in the celebrity version a closeted homosexual.
Guys...the cartoon is insensitive to people concerned with animal rights (although the cops were right to fire). The idea that its racist is simply not so.
Remember...sometimes its a thing and sometimes its NOT a thing.
People like you only see things your fucking way, and that's it. Trust me, that's an old way of thinking that will most likely get you and probably your children in some deep social shit someday.
And BTW, Omarosa was a very successful young black women well before squirrel head's shitty show. She had previously worked in the White house for Vice President Al Gore. She stood up for herself and remained true to herself...hard to deal with huh? To simply label the woman a race baiter is very dumb...and typical.
She was moved 3 different times while working for the White House before they let her go. She was incompetant and a camera hog, going around telling people she was an 'appointee' even though she was simply 'hired' the same way the stewards and chefs are hired.
Omarosa is good at marketing and nothing else. And you would never have heard of her if it hadnt been for 'squirrel heads shitty show' which you obviously watched.
As far as 'hard to deal with', first of all I'll bet youve never met her. Second of all, towards the end she made a big deal of racial solidarity with one of the finalists, Kwame Jackson (who, after the show made a multi-billion dollar real estate deal...you want an impressive black role model? Thats who you should turn your gaze towards.) and then stabbed him in the back to show everybody how bitter she was that she wasnt a finalist. Thirdly, you seem to hold to the Spike Lee notion that black people are, by definition, incapable of racism.
Youre right though, she did remain true to herself. A loud, camera-hogging, race-baiting diva, who will pick a fight just to make herself feel tough and then cry racism when she starts to lose.
But we all pick our role models...good luck with yours. I hope you see the light at the end of your tunnel-vision.
...if you use it to be a blind, submissive house negro, clearly ignorant to the historical significance of the cartoon. Google Walt Disney Productions from the 1930's or 40's, or the term pickanniny, or almost any turn of the 20th southern advertisement with black caricatures. I don't care if you have an entire African tribe in your home...you have a hell of a lot to learn.
The stimulus package was Obama's Idea, even if it was written by congress. Also, chimps, monkeys and apes are old racist sympols that have been used to disrespect African-Americans for a long time.
You need to brush up on your Black History
I love how ignorant people can be! Sure there was no symbolism between the dead monkey and President Obama...
And I'm sure the bigot with the monkey doll at the Palin/McWorse rally was, uh, it was, um...Oh, I know, it was his favorite toy and he was just going through a 2nd childhood! yeah, that's it!
Who could ever equate a monkey and a black man, it must be something wrong with us, right?
First I'm a racist, and now I'm ignorant. My fellow progressives sure are definitely nice people eh?
Was there a chimp in the news who went crazy and was shot by police when the Palin hate-rallies were happening?
Nope. There wasn't. That's the difference here.
Can I get inside the artists head who drew this comic? No I can't. I don't know if the person honestly was drawing the infamous raging chimp, nor do I know if they're a closet racist trying to hide the imagery. I don't. All I have is what I see in it, and it wasn't Obama.
I guess that's why I'm an ignorant racist!
Thanks C&L commenters for having such a wide-open POV, and an ever-loving attitude.
I didnt make that interpretation. I thought it was a reference to that monkey that went crazy and the authors of the stimulas plan (Pelosi and Reid).
Dont forget how many times Bush was drawn as a chimp by that same cartoonist. Except then, the monkeys looked just like Bush. This cartoon has no charactoristics of our current President Obama. The only people equating Obama to a chimp is the usuall suspects. Sharpton, blah, blah, blah.
There are real times to pull out the race card. Unfortunately, this isnt one of them. This I hear from my black friends as well!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oaSZxd9jOY
Nothing shocks me anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P91_H690z4
Yes,and John was the Walrus.Or was it Paul?
Those four men, just like the assholes who printed that cartoon, are only showing their true colors. It's obvious that they have no respectfor anyone outside their race, class, or religion.
I have boycotted the Post for years because of it's racial biased against black leaders in New York.
I am glad that the rest of the country now knows that the NY post is nothing more than a right wing, shitrag excuse of a paper
I like your assessment of the situation. Sounds 100% right to me.
What's the difference between two newspapers owned by Rupert Murdoch, the New York Compost and England's The Sun?
In The Sun, the big boobs are on page three. In the Compost, they're on the editorial page.
With a replacement caption.
http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/17575.html
I hate Republicans too but it doesn't justify this kind of cartoon (I don't care who it's aimed at)
I agree. Both cartoons are way out of line.
not one editor on the post could see a potential problem with that cartoon? isn't that worse? so racist it's natural.
just more proof of the infrance to be drawn. The defenders of this disgrace sound like puppets talking Republican talking points. They all say the same thing. Who is the Wizzard pulling their strings?
unless it's a prank.
Some day, all of this will be historical scrap.
What matters...going forward?
I dunno.
But I do know history discards most of this shit and focuses on what has mattered. Sorry. Back to whatever.
Those who choose to ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
I consider myself a leftist and very racially aware and sensitive to the racism plaguing our country. However, even with the past comparisons between chimps and African-Americans the first place my mind went with this cartoon was to Travis the Chimp in Connecticut. I'm pretty much in agreement with most of the liberal blogs on, well, everything. However, I just see it as a big stretch to call this a racist attack on Obama. This is pretty obviously a link to the "thousand chimps at a typewriter" theorem. Sorry, guys, I really think we should drop this story. We look foolish.
Did Mike Barnacle just take off his White HOOD on hardball today?
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The reason why black people are not living next to white people in the suburbs is because
Mike Barancle’s Own Words
“there is a collapse of the black family, teenage parenting, babies having babies; the large drop out rate among many African Americans is horrendous that adds up to why they are not living next to us in the suburbs.”
WOW!!!!!
His guest looked shocked by his comments. WOW
It was a cartoon showing the four of them swinging from one gallow and it said: After we dump America to the Brits, we'll all hang around together". Man this country is sick. Our real GNP is in drugs and pornography, but we deny it. Our prison system is the largest in the world, but we deny it. Our military leaders(broken arrow) are ripping off the American taxpayer in Afghanistan and Iraq, but we deny it. All we have to do is watch old "Bonanza" reruns and see we've been like this throughout history, and we'll deny it. Historical? Don't look now, but you are making history, and don't deny it. But were they effigy's?
Hoss
It's a stupid cartoon connecting a chimp shot yesterday and the monkeys that drew up the Stim Package. Period.
Ha, Ha... not funny. Move along ...
We certainly wouldn't want to get past our racist roots. We should just ignore it and it will go away, right?
Oops, I guess that really hasn't worked but on the other hand we have only tried it for about 60 years now. Maybe we just need to give the tactic of indifference a little more time.
It's the only thing we can do to get passed our history of racism.
Yes, all Americans must cease from drawing any monkeys or chimps because you are automatically racist, and any monkey or chimp is automatically Obama.
Awesome.
Don't be so bloody short sighted!
Anyone with half a brain in their friggin heads KNOWS that you can't liken AA's to any lower primate.
I can GUARAN-DAMN-TEE ya, that 100% of the folks defending or downplaying the racist overtones would NEVER call a black person a monkey to their face.
Might as well just drop the N bomb.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiRU7l4EL94&fe...
that racism is dead in America, I have two words for you:
NATIVE AMERICANS
Leave out one letter and you got it right NAIVE AMERICANS
And you get Eames.
Great designer. Awesome chairs.
What's even funnier about the cartoon is the woman who was attacked almost died and is still fighting for her life. BWAHAHAHAHA...BWAHAHAHAHA...Wait, that's not funny at all. So I guess this "satire" is disgusting on two levels. And yet the Post can't seem to figure this out. It's like making fun of a Cancer patient taking his/her last breath and making a joke about his/her carbon output.
actually... that would be pretty funny.
OMG you didn't see it right off. Ok, how about when you read the caption.....didn't ring any bells? I am not a touchy feeling lefty; as far as I am concerned, the world started going down hill when they outlawed crucifixions. But that was right in your face racist, meant to be racist by racists. For the life of me, I can't see how it could be seen any other way. Drop the story, shit, I think we should be going all Jihad on this one. If there are no serious repercussions it will only enbolden the bastards.
any one not seeing blatant racism with this comic is blind or stupid.. no not really blind or stupid but a bold faced god damn liar. i'll say it again, a god damned liar.
When I saw the cartoon my reaction was...what the hell does the Conn. chimp have to do with the Stim?? For the life of I can't see the connection. For those jerks to try and say it wasn't racist...they are either very self-deluded or just plain stupid, or both.
Yeah but they sure can tap dance.
What? What'd I say?
Anyway,those wing bombers making the stupid point that Bush was lampooned as a Chimp must explain to me how pointing out someone's ineptitude is equal to this kind of loaded imagery meant to trigger racist violence of the worst possible kind.Then they hide behind it's topical content (of the cartoon) as if that explains away the illogical use of the imagery in the first place.
But I do beleive beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You see a monkey and make the connection to Obama. Many others do not share your view. Some others see that monkey that went crazy and got shot and the Authors of the Stimulas Bill.With the implication,...did monkeys write this thing?
If you choose to Equate Obama when you see a monkey, Thats on you!
Thats on you.
How about if I choose to see the cartoonist as intentionally depicting Obama as a Monkey?A dead Monkey? Then what?
Would that be so unprecedented that you simply couldn't imagine such a thing happening in this "post racial" era?
the movie King Kong must have really upset you then.
is exactly why that cartoonist did not label that monkey "OBAMA". Any competent editorial cartoonist knows you have to label your characters and concepts in order to be clear. But this guy didn't want to be clear, for this exact reason - so that when reasonable people say I see what you did there! he can throw up his hands innocently and cry, "Who's the racist now?"
Plausible deniability. Clever like a rat, but cowardly nonetheless...
bush was not only as inept as a chimp, he was also born to look like one http://www.bushorchimp.com/
Obama does not resemble a chimp, neither in appearance nor intelligence.
i don't see this as meant to trigger racist violence because it is not saying that Obama is the chimp in question and it is not enciting people to go kill. you can make that connection if you really wanted to, just so you can act offended, but you every cartoon will offend or be misinterpreted by someone.
I will amend my comment about "meant to trigger violence".
I really mean "depicts and might trigger racial violence".
As for your smirking "you can make that connection if you really wanted to, just so you can act offended" insult:try to realize that some people really can be offended by this kind of thing even if you yourself lack the requisite imagination/concern/ideological input.
so we agree that the cartoon was not overtly racist but could be interpreted as such by some percentage of people. okay, good.
you're right: some people might be offended.
but that can be said about any and every political cartoon.
i believe in free speech. i also believe that if you dumb down comedy to the point that it can never be misinterpreted by anyone, then you effectively kill it.
which is why i supported the supposedly racist New Yorker that actually mocked racism and the news paper that ran the Danish cartoons which was making an important point about free speech.
"so we agree that the cartoon was not overtly racist but could be interpret as such by some percentage of people. okay, good."
Yes we agree it was not overtly racist.
It was covertly racist.Just barely.
"you're right: some people might be offended.
but that can be said about any and every political cartoon."
Correct.Some are much more offensive than others however.
"i believe in free speech."
Thank you for allowing mine.
"which is why i supported the supposedly racist New Yorker that actually mocked racism"
Or if you will,enabled it if you believe in it's inherent ineptitude as do I.
The cartoonist is free to draw whatever he likes under the guise of Free Speech.
The government could not nor should they shut him down. THAT is the guarantee of Free Speech.
However, it is my right and my Free Speech to say that the cartoonist is a racist moron who is likely inciting violence with his dehumanizing depictions.
Agreed. I believe in freedom of speech too, but be prepared to answer for it.
It's utter racist crap, and the Post knew exactly what they were doing.
"Someone else'll have give the order to invade Iraq"
the outcry would have been DEAFENING.
...only from the right-wing blogosphere and the michelle malkins of the world. you don't want to sound like that do you?
The cartoon is racist. Anyone with half a sensitivity gene would know that. What world do these people live in anyway?
gasp! did you just accuse me of only having half a sensitivity gene?!?! I am greatly offended. GREATLY OFFENDED! you need to be more sensitive to others, to the point that nothing you say can ever be taken out of context or misinterpreted for fear of offending others.
firstly, they say:
"I didn't think it was racist; did you find it racist, Pat Buchanan?" "I didn't, Joe, and I think Halperin will back me up on that. You know, blacks can be so sensitive sometimes."
well, if that is the case and being compared to a monkey is indeed a trite thing not worthy of a second thought, then why may i ask, do the wingnuts go into such a tizzy when the topic is evolution and they are going out of their minds because they don't like the notion that they are descended from apes? pot calling kettle! i call hypocracy.
secondly, as pointed out:
"It wasn't just the metaphor of the chimp, but the fact that the chimp was shot dead by the cops. Remind me again when any political commentator EVER suggested killing Bush or even the Bushchimp?"
it's worty to note that not only was the chimp offed, but the cartoon advocated offing the chimp by law enforcement personnel. this is close to advocating harm on the president in the form of assasination or armed military overthrow and the secret service should investigate.
thirdly, it is ludicrous in the extreme to play dumb, when the talking heads pretend to see no difference between the act of portraying bush as a chimp and obama as one. the "monkey" epithet was well known in the '50's and early '60's as a disparaging term for blacks. it's simply absurd to not take that fact into account when assessing this cartoon's impact.
It's hypocrisy. Just FYI.
sigh...
Isn't partisan what the Japanese say instead of party down?
It is insensitive, but is it racist?
What's the papers reputation for racism?
What's the cartoonists reputation for racism?
Could it just be that it's saying the stimulus package reads like it was written by monkees?
That being said, late Victorian crackers would try to justify Darwinism with Genesis by claiming that the white races were created by God, but the other races evolved from apes.
Does this mean Gallagher will have to give up his watermelon smashing routine?
/snark
Eh, he swiped it from early Alice Cooper.
In the late 60's Alice would end show by smashing a watermelon and throw the parts on to the nearest row of audience, or rip up a feather pillow and have feathers flying everywhere.
Yes. But unlike Alice Cooper he made it his primary, no, his only routine. he smashed it over and over again until all the funny was gone.
Wake up America. Look around you! Quit denying your jokes, your torturous ideas, your petty predudices...America is a racist country. Just look at Lindsey Graham! Buchannon! Bush! Garcia! Jackson! Moon! Nugyen! Joseph Smith (Mormons)! Look at yourself. Cowboys against Indians. Flat world thinking against round earth thinkers. Jews against Christians!Christians against Babtists and other Christians. Christ against politicians! Buddists(naw, they are the only ones who don't care about it). You're in this problem because of your racism.Witches against peasants! Bush buried you! You still fight it. YOU BLOODY WELL WAKE UP....THE BRITISH ARE COMING! THE BRITISH ARE COMING! You Are Racists.
There, I told the truth, now we can go on with our real, dim-witted beliefs. Carry on...
Hans Solo
Most of what you described is dichotemous thinking not racism.
And Witches were the doctors and advisers to the peasantry; how many peasants were burned alive by Witches?
Hi everyone. Dennis here. Long-time lurker, first time poster...sort of.
But anyway, was wondering if anyone could help me find some older blog posts in the archives here for the time Ted Rall did the cartoon where he called Condoleeza Rice a 'house ni**er'.
I know the outrage here had to be unbelievable but I just wanted to see who said what for my own reference. Any help anyone can provide would be appreciated.
all that time off and you never learned how to use a search engine?
You were posting last week too. We all saw you.
Welcome back.
Hi miss kitty. Thanks.
Now don't start being nice to me, it'll make me feel bad. ;)
So where's the moral equivalence with Ted Rall? Why has he always gotten a pass here? He's a much more prevalent cartoonist than whoever the schmoke was at the NY Post. I think he should give Sharpton the apology that he's looking for and I think he should've gotten a few more people's opinions before it went to press, and I do understand how African-Americans would be very upset by it barring an apology, but I just don't understand how Rall always got the passes he did. Far more offensive, and I just bring up one example for it's overt racism toward an African-American that broke barriers too. He has many more not racist but equally offensive and more offensive intentionally than I think this current one is.
so I won't pretend to tell you.
:D
Right...
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 17:07 — miss_kitty
all that time off and you never learned how to use a search engine?
You were posting last week too. We all saw you.
Welcome back.
__________________________________________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vXRf5HXJmU
Ted can justify his own actions although I assume you mean the cartoon pointing out the "token" quality of Rice's installment in that tragically malformed administration?The POV expressing the absurdity of a Black Republican in a House full of closet racists?That one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C4uTEEOJlM
I saw it at a late night showing in college. I might have been a little drunk, explaining why it was so vivid, but that damn thing haunted my thoughts and dreams for weeks afterward.
My brother still teases me about it.
Only a little?
C'mon, you can do better than that
I'm crocked right now.
You can see my typing is better.
The stress of the elections was too much for me.
I'm allowed one glass of red wine and that's it.
I missed the good ol' days....
Try drinking it like I do from a skull shaped goblet.
It's shades of, if you'll pardon the expression, of Matthew Lewis's The Brave Alonzo and the Fair Imogene.
But Fu Manchu awaits.
I think Myrna Lowe played his adult daughter in the Karloff version (this is Henry Brandon),
Myrna was such a hottie.
Sorry, that was Loy, as in cloy.
I can see where Crumb drew a lot of his inspiration from.
I still submit that ysbaddaden is the King of the YouTubers.
If you're baiting me
Does that mean I'm a pinko?
I think you're being called a master, actually. :)
Well my right hand is stronger than my left.
I posted a Ted Rall cartoon here during the primary and was just reamed for it by Obama supporters, because they saw Rall's exaggerated features style as making Obama fairly simian. The fact that Hillary's features were equally exaggerated and Rall was flat out depicting her as a racist didn't matter. I saw an equal opportunity offender and others saw it as strictly racist.
But either way, it misses the point of this post. The reason it is so offensive is that there is a long history of associating African Americans with monkeys/apes/etc. And studies, such as the one linked above have shown that be dehumanizing African Americans this way has made it more difficult for all African Americans in the country.
Studies have shown that we are inured to violence against black people. Law enforcement and public sentiment considers it less egregious to be violent towards blacks than whites.
That's unacceptable. And that's the point of this post.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnajtPXZMU8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URZGYcNi8N8
I understand that, Nicole. I acknowledged that I understood why any African-American would be offended, and I will say I think the cartoonist screwed up by not taking whatever extra steps he needed to take to make certain no one would be offended. What I don't particularly care for, not that you or C&L is doing it, is blaming this on the Murdoch-owned NY Post, and since he owns Fox News, by extension everyone who would watch Fox had a hand in this, as if it were some sort of coded conspiracy. Or, as pinkobait's comment above, that anyone defending racism is a racist, as if anyone asking questions and wondering what all the fuss is about his cartoon is defending it and is by his definition, racist.
That extension pinko makes divides us, what Eric Holder said yesterday, makes us cowards about wanting to talk to each other.
My facetiousness about the Ted Rall/Condoleeza Rice cartoon is that some liberal bloggers are making this liberal/conservative issue because of the newspaper it was printed in, and to my knowledge this cartoonist doesn't have that history, so it's a curious way to have as one's racist coming-out party. Ted Rall isn't so subtle, and Ted Rall is largely held in high-esteem by the liberals. Or at least that is my impression from the spankings I've received criticizing him here.
Thanks for the response, btw. Hope you are well.
Other than Delonas is well known for going after liberal targets: gays, minorities, etc.
I see it as a racism issue.
I would be equally as offended by calling Rice a "house n***er"
But Harry Belafonte called Colin Powell the same thing.
"There's an old saying," Belafonte said in that interview. "In the days of slavery, there were those slaves who lived on the plantation and there were those slaves that lived in the house. You got the privilege of living in the house if you served the master ... exactly the way the master intended to have you serve him."
But that's more like an intramural thang.
But speaking of racism
It's time to watch some more Drums of Fu Manchu.
Pretty sure I didn't.
Racism isn't okay. Period. Full Stop.
I don't care what side of the aisle you're on.
And it's spelled "Nicole"
Well I was gonna call you Sticky Nicky
But you might not get the reference that it's from a Prince song.
Sorry about the misspelling.
I guess I'm more interested in the meaning of the term than how dreadful some may misinterpret it.
I guess the official leftwing blog council has decided; Draw a monkey, you're a racist.
RIP Curious George
"Draw a monkey, you're a racist."
In this case-- YES.
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 18:25 — Edwin
What if you spank the monkey?
What a simple, dumbass conclusion to a serious social disorder. You talk like that cross eyed, seasoned, career Republican boot licker Ron Christie. You're a disgrace.
Colin Powell has already express remorse for his participation in Bush's mass murder/theft house of cards in Iraq.
Where the fuck have you been the last few years, breaking your Dixie Chick CD's?
Or, as pinkobait's comment above, that anyone defending racism is a racist, as if anyone asking questions and wondering what all the fuss is about his cartoon is defending it and is by his definition, racist.
Sorry someone else said that...Al Jolson I believe.
As for the Ted Rall thing,although I don't remember the cartoon,I think intent and application are paramount.
For example if George Carlin said the "N" word,you could be pretty sure it was in a powerful and ironic manner,meant to un-mask racism,which is a technique that Rall uses frequently.
The cartoon in question however seems less ironic than subversive,hiding (illogically)behind current events while conveying a (decidedly)ugly message.
When racism occurs, the only ones who defend it are Racists.
Wasn't it Al Jolson who said that?
Thu, 02/19/2009 - 17:36 — JohnnyBravo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlrDTwTYIlM
Agreed.
Say what you like, but it was in poor taste, not funny, and it is obvious the cartoonist meant it to be offensive.
Snip - "In the page preceding a New York Post cartoon that depicts drafters of the stimulus legislation as a gun-downed chimpanzee, the paper published a large photo of Barack Obama signing that very piece of legislation."
[ http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/18/ny-p... ]
If Arianna Huffington says so, it must be true.
So, according to you and HuffPo, the artist was the one who decided where the comic would be printed.
Got it.
I used to edit a magazine here in the Bay Area.
Placement was my biggest headache. When they're laying out the paper, they do look at articles/photos and what they're next to.
And the editor was well within his job responsibilities to send the artist back to the drawing board.
(Breaking)The post said they were sorry! :-)
Let me ask you a single pointed question:
What does a chimpanzee mauling a woman and being shot by cops have to do with a stimulus package?
Did someone shoot down the stimulus package? I thought it passed. Are they saying congress is a bunch of monkeys? Wouldn't the joke have been the police being overwhelmed by monkeys and running out of bullets? I just don't get it.
The only connection I can see that makes any sense is the monkey is Obama. And the rationale of people defending it sort of comes off like, "It's not racist to have a black jockey at the driveway of my home, because there used to be black jockeys."
a joke that is made to be understood by everyone and one that cannot be misinterpreted by anyone will never exist.
to explain: the crazed monkey is the true writer of the bill (because the cartoonist thinks the bill is crazy) and now taht the monkey is dead it cannot write future stimulus bills. the monkey is not meant to represent any specific person, but instead the logic behind the bill.
it;s not very funny and i do not agree with the politics, but this is obviously teh intent of the cartoon.
This cartoonist has a history of rude ,obnoxious behavior.(in his cartoons.
This guy saw an opportunity to slip one in, cause an uproar, and claim innocence.
No offense. What you wrote was well written.
This is appalling on a number of levels. How about the violence?
Two to the heart. Nice.
It would take three if it twere a werewolf.
oh no, violence in a cartoon! the horror, the horror...
i mean, you could totally be right about the cartoonist slipping one in. but the outcry from this little cartoon is a little ridiculous to me.
or maybe i just have an unnaturally thick skin - one of my favorite songs is "The Man I Killed" by NOFX which is most likely about assassinating Bush. and i find it funny.
You don't find the two bullet holes and the pool of blood disturbing?
You have to keep this in it's context. The cartoonist did slip one in. And in that context, ( which I believe to be accurate) this is unacceptable.
This is a sad testament to this mans mindset.
People can play devils advocate all they want. This case, it's a losing battle. Someone would have to be as dumb as a rock to not see what this really is.
i don't find two bullet holes and a pool of blood disturbing when we are talking about cartoons. do you remember the gruesome violence suffered by Wiley Coyote or Tom from Tom & Jerry?
plus it's making reference to a monkey that was actually gunned down in real life, which i imagine had bullet holes in it too.
again, you can hypothesize about it being a slip-in, but that is just your interpretation of it. i didn't see anything wrong when i first saw the cartoon because i don't naturally make the race association that some people make. When i hear the words "President" and "chimpanzee" the only thing that comes to mind is this douchebag: http://www.bushorchimp.com/pics.html
i am not playing devils advocate, i am just tired people being offended by everything they see or choosing to be offended in order to attack those they disagree with.
I find it more than coincidental that we have just elected a man who is our 1st African American President. And this shows up within the 1st month of his admin. This story about the chimp attacking this woman just made it easy for him to put this trash out there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7lULaE6kv4
Welcome... :-)
Then why didn't the cartoonist label the monkey clearly, to show who he was talking about? Every editorial cartoonist does that, because if you don't, your message isn't clear.
Except, of course, if you don't WANT it to be clear, which is the case here. The cartoonist is a two-faced bastard, trying to have it both ways. He wants to make his nasty ILLEGAL joke about assassinating the President over an economic issue (a President who just happens to be black - two for the price of one!), AND he wants to be able to wash his hands and cry innocence when he's called on it.
And he knows there will be people like you running around and making that argument for him. Problem is, leaving out the label on the cartoon is way too obvious. He thinks the public is stupid. We're not, sorry.
how is this different than the fake controversy that McCain tried to spread by accusing Obama of sexism for the "lipstick on a pig" comment?
what would your response then be:
"Then why didn't [Obama] [explain the reference] clearly, to show who he was talking about? Every [candidate] does that, because if you don't, your message isn't clear.
Except, of course, if you don't WANT it to be clear, which is the case here. The [candidate] is a two-faced bastard, trying to have it both ways. He wants to make his nasty ILLEGAL joke about [the VP nominee looking like a pig] (a [VP nominee] who just happens to [wear lipstick] - two for the price of one!), AND he wants to be able to wash his hands and cry innocence when he's called on it.
And he knows there will be people like you running around and making that argument for him. Problem is, leaving out the [clarification in his speech] is way too obvious. He thinks the public is stupid. We're not, sorry."
right?
you can't dismiss one fake controversy while advancing another
I think that someone putting lipstick on a pig is a bit different than a pig pumping a monkey full of lead...
I commented about this in another thread, but I think it bears repeating:
Actor Sean Astin called in to Ron Reagan's show today and made a very good point - that with all the upset over the racism in the cartoon, there's something most people are missing, and which is legally more serious:
It's a cartoon about ASSASSINATING THE PRESIDENT.
Think about it. The reason it's racist is that the cop's remark refers in an oblique way to Obama, yes? Well, who is Obama? He's THE PRESIDENT. Here are two cops, having shot the central figure down, making a flip joke about how America will have to "replace" him.
They're joking about killing the President. That's ILLEGAL. You're not allowed to make those jokes. We saw it in spades around 9/11 and the buildup to the Iraq War. Many people who made such jokes or remarks were hauled in by the FBI. Seems to me that cartoonist should be taken in and questioned, along with his editor.
"We saw it in spades"
According to the huffington post, you're not allowed to say that anymore.
Try again.
Thanks for seeing that.
That's what Baratunde and Sam Stein were trying to get across, though I think 1600 Penn was more comfortable focusing strictly on the race part.
it's easier to stay on the race angle, since so many are really upset by it. But I wish they'd include the assassination thing more. And really, it just turns out racist AGAIN, because why do they want to assassinate him? Because he's an uppity monkey who's trying to take all their power away, that's why, DAMMIT!!
So it's all part of the same package. I hope more noise gets made about this, because it's not likely to stay an undercurrent. Eventually, some asshole's going to do something, and then pustules like this will claim they never saw it coming.
Yeah, and go and get that guy that directed Death of a President and the owners of the movie houses here in America that showed it.
But not my bestest friend here who gave it a great review.
Again, I need help with the archives.
It's odd how some people will play the devils advocate. Hell, I've done it.
But on this particular subject, I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would want to .
Just a fucked up deal.
On the topic of nonny's review. If you remember correctly, There were voices in opposition to this movie. I happen to remember, "
Not a movie like this, with the sitting President. No matter who's the sitting President."
I remember that thread.
Well some people say the devil pays well.
It is clear you haven't even watched "Death of a President" have you.
Besides, didn't your goons sent somebody to the pen because he made a joke about a "burning bush," in the biblical sense, in a bar?
Funny how you idiots want everybody else to have a thick skin, when yourselves have the thinnest of epidermis.
:)
They have great lotions and salves for the embarrassing social problems of burning bushes.
ysbaddaden is cut off.Hand over the car keys Pal.
Who needs to drive when they're flying?
show up and give your wonderful insight on this topic.
You do need help dennis...with a good deal more than the archives.
Haul their asses in!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuRQH_hLcTw
Snip - "this experiment was a total success!!!! all of the members of the CUBE should have figured out by now, remember howard dean and his glorious howl???!!! AAAAIIIIIIIEEEEEEEE!!!!!!! that was a call to arms of all of the super monkey people, and their offspring. it was the secret code that fooled us all. damn monkey people. that's what i'm calling 'em from now on.....monkey people. look at the picture on the che t-shirt....monkey people. they have had us fooled for too long. OUT THE MONKEY PEOPLE!!!!!" Look around...
[ http://thepeoplescube.com/red/viewtopic.php?t... ]
Do not go to the website posted above. OY.
Just as I thought. Looking for a "like" mindset, I stumbled across that web page. It's called (Connecting the Dots)! √
A Google search with the key words > [kkk,apes,religion] got me there.
Why am I not surprised ?
Is it stormfront? I've heard of them before, though this web page is thepeoplescube, is it one and the same? Kick it back, thanks...
This is what I read before I linked to it.
" You Nazi/KKK Morons - Page 6 - Stormfront
10 posts - Last post: May 5, 2007
Page 6- You Nazi/KKK Morons The Truth About Martin Luther King. ... negros are apes - even negros know that. FULLPOWER is offline .... Mexico from the slavery, brutality, and human sacrificial religion of the Aztecs. ...
www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=379... - 99k -
Then I went and read some of the posts. I don't have very much patience for this kinda stuff. So I didn't read to far into it.
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.ph...
Take it for what it's worth.
Just as I thought. √
i don't see this as having racist intentions, but you can take that viewpoint if you want to. and i do mean "want to".
by choosing the interpretation that will leave you most offended, you are able to throw mud at your political opponent and call them racist.
or sexist, like McCain accusing Obama of sexism because of the "lipstick on a pig" comment. of course Obama was not talking about Palin, but mccain still feigned that he did in order to accuse obama of sexism.
and i'm tired of hearing "Islamaphobia" any time Islam's record on women's rights or human rights is brought up.
or hearing people being accused of anti-semitism any time Israel's policies are questioned.
or sean hannity accusing war protesters of 'hating the troops' when obvious war crimes are mentioned.
i am not saying that there aren't real racists out there. and there are plenty of racist cartoons that make it to the printing press (how often arab nationalists drawn as either dogs or barbarians), but this cartoon has other more plausible explanations and i see people being all-too-quick to get offended and accuse others of racism.
sigh.. i'm just tired of people playing the victim and creating controversies where none exist.
Not really. Any parallel Universe explanation of the intent of this cartoon falls flat on its face.
It's almost as if the cartoonist and his apologists were saying, "When I called the President a N@gger and depicted him as a dead monkey what i was really saying was we need more like him so we can have more better stimulus bills, my brother."
What a load of shit.
Speaking of shit this is what the New York Post printed as way of an explanation (not an apology):
So if you have ever disagreed with the New York Post you can go fuck yourself.
Will you people look at Who owns the post.... A man famous for wingnut welfare!!! Rupert Murdoch... He has over looked racism in the past or condoned it.. Take your pick. All of his media holdings seem to take their marching orders from him and he takes great interest in the news papers that he owns!!!!
Do you want to bet that the cartoonist and the editor didn't get a pass from him?? They would be out on their buts if he were ticked off!!!
I can't say for sure but they're saying he is getting a little liberal in his old age? I'm not sure if it has ever happened before but the "Post" has issued an half-azzed apology today. Sounds like they're throwing that editor under the bus, plus they still want to sell papers.
By Truth_Critic
I can't say for sure but they're saying he is getting a little liberal in his old age?
I don't think so!!! Most this has happen when progressives are on the verge of getting power or when "conservatives" are threatening some portion of his media empire...
Think of Britain When the Conservatives there threatened to limit media ownership his papers turned on them now that they seem to have backed down from this stance his papers have gone back to supporting the conservatives...
he said Rupert Murdoch's second wife has chilled him out some in his old age. Take it for what you will?
but that does not mean he has political beliefs.
Besides this reminds me of when Bush started to "read books" this happen when it became common knowledge that he never reads at all!!
This seems to be the same type problem that Murdoch is facing and the response seems a little familiar.. If he has changed I really doubt that the media would even report it... But even there I may be wrong.
I wasn't "choosing the interpretation that will leave you most offended" I saw this as a racist cartoon in the first millisecond. What else could it be? Even after reading all the other interpretations above, I just cannot form any other opinion.
And it isn't a "liberal" thing either. If Obama pulls all the shit the Bush admin did over the last 8yrs, I will be first to admit he is shit too. The man has been in power for about month and he is already "figuratively" gunned down. It is not that I am easily offended, it is just that I feel I know racist and descpicable when I see it.
with 1000 stations blasting coordinated UNCONTESTED repetition of this kind of crap.
limbaugh got to say "obama's head needs to roll" set 10 to 15MIL or so and how many of them called their local stations or his sponsors?
this cartoon is a good example of why the radio monopoly has been so important getting us into this mess- this kind of crap goes on all the time in talk radio all over the country and it has been completely ignored-then it migrates to tv and print. in this case it is noticed and it is smacked for what it is. but so much more subtle flat earth shit migrates into the mainstream from the TR monopoly and is accepted as legitimate.
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