American Journalists Sentenced In North Korea To 12 Years Labor Camp
By Nicole Belle Monday Jun 08, 2009 5:45am
Horrible news:
North Korea found two U.S. journalists it has held since March guilty of illegal entry and sentenced them to 12 years hard labor, its official KCNA news agency said on Monday.
The journalists, Euna Lee and Laura Ling, of U.S. media outlet Current TV, were arrested while working on a story near the border between North Korea and China. Their trial opened on Thursday.
"The trial confirmed the grave crime they committed against the Korean nation and their illegal border crossing as they had already been indicted and sentenced each of them to 12 years of reform through labor," KCNA said in a brief dispatch.
There just aren't words to express my anger and frustration for Lee and Ling. Al Gore, whose CurrentTV has remained curiously silent on Lee and Ling's plight, may go to Pyongyang to negotiate for their release:
The United States might send former US vice president Al Gore to Pyongyang in order to negotiate the release of two American journalists on trial in North Korea for illegal entry.
State Department spokesman Ian Kelly did not rule out such a possibility when asked if it would make sense to send Gore, who is chairman of the California station Current TV, which employs the two journalists.
"It's a very, very sensitive issue, I'm not going to go into it," Kelly told reporters who pressed him on the matter.
"This is such a sensitive issue, I'm just not going to go into those kinds of discussions that we may or may not have had," he added when asked whether Gore himself had raised the matter with the State Department.
"The bottom line is that these two young women should be released but I'm not going to go into any kind of details on what we will or won't do," Kelly said when asked again if it would help to send Gore.
The Petition Site has a petition you can sign (and a Facebook group you can join) to ask the State Department to bring Lee and Ling home.
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But I'm betting they'll not do much time.
NK is gonna use them as bargaining chips.
Tell former residents of the Hanoi Hilton the reporters won't be doing much time as bargaining chips.
care to elaborate?
I have no idea how long they'll be held, but I think a more reasonable precedent would be the guy who was arrested and released when Bill Richardson went there to apologize in the 90's. Not something that happened in a completely different country to prisoners of war rather than journalists.
I agree, they are a bargaining chip. Once NK gets a couple of concessions they'll let them go.
All they want is Fletcher Brothers Corny Dogs and Dr. Pepper stands?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...
And then they'll kidnap some more Americans/S. Koreans/Japanese to extract another ransom.
As horrid as this situation is for these 2 reporters, I've got to ask:
What story were they working on? They must have surely known the extreme danger they were in--was their story so groundbreaking that these tremendous risks were acceptable? Couldn't they have gathered information through other, less dangerous avenues? And was their editor(s) even aware of what these 2 were up to?
My heart goes out to these reporters and their families, and the sentence they received is beyond all acceptable measures, but shouldn't they have known better? Where is the common sense?
living in China. And yes, I imagine they would have to be aware of some of the danger. The work that Ling and Lee did for CurrentTV's Vanguard programing frequently *does* take them to dangerous parts of the world. For that I admire and respect them, not blame them for their arrest.
Traveling to, and reporting from, dangerous parts of the world is quite different than deliberately putting oneself in such an extremely dangerous situation--at least, to my way of thinking.
I only hope the reporting they did on the North Korean refugees for CurrentTV's Vanguard programs was worth removing themselves from any further work they might have accomplished had they not been arrested for crossing the river into North Korea (which is what I understand got them arrested initially).
It wasn't my intent to blame them, merely to ask whether they took the best course of action available to them so that might maximize their impact, worldwide. Apparently even broaching that subject is tantamount to disrespect in some eyes.
the rightwing spin this as all Obama's (and Al Gore's) fault.
somehow, some way...they're responsible for every bad thing that happens.
...rightwingers believe that all evil in the world stems from the Clintons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuTiTfbfy7Q
The Clintons and they evil congress at that time were very damaging. I am no Repub, but they hurt us...bad.
that the Clintons inflicted on us is infinitesimally small compared to the damage and destruction heaped upon us by George Bush (and previous Republican administrations).
What does Gore have to offer? Please explain.
and...
You won't hear me defend Bush, but you exaggerate. Clinton's sins were not as damaging, but are magnified by
his "identity" as a Democrat and a man of the people.
He was the best Republican President of the 20th Century!
-He championed deregulation
-He committed crimes against humanity
-He strengthend the "national security state"
-He was all about NAFTA and Globalization
Because it will feed the ego of the leaders in North Korea, which is why most things happen there.
I guess it's all how you look at things.With a myopic eye you may see those things one way,but I see another.National security laws took away personal rights,deregulation is a disaster, what human rights?The issue of torture? what about Katrina? NAFTA and Globalization ruined our economic infrastructure.Take a step back and the picture is not so pretty.
OK I'll quit, I promise!!
are all over this, being "outraged" that Al has not already gone to N Korea and cut off his dick in public to free them.
More insane crap from the peoplr who brought us Bush.
Watch them lock up Gore and really put a test to Obama!!
Ohhh the agony!!
A man called into Washington Journal (c-span) this morning and was talking about this. He said at least they gave them a trial and didn't water board them for years before the trial.
Send Jimmy Carter over to try to negotiate a deal. If I remember right, he's pretty good at that sort of thing.
*sigh* Its a shame when a country like NK treats their illegal prisoners better than we treat our illegal prisoners.
former Gov. Richardson. I believe he also has some experience negotiating in these kinds of situations.
I sure wouldn't allow Gore to go.
a straight up swap
we'll throw in a rumsfelt, AND a fleischer!
if you act within the next 20 minutes we'll double the offer with Palin and Newt!
Cheney would just take over and then we'd all be in real trouble.
Cheney would wet his draft dodging pants.
if he had to go to fight.
So...pants wetting on his part may be a foregone conclusion.
and teh savage weiner.
They can all go too!
If they don't take us up on this swap, we'll send them Joe the Plumber. Then they'll be sorry.
by golly!
We better have tucker carlson on standby just in case.
And make sure we know where Dennis Miller is. He's the alternate.
.
they'll fit.
of using a trebuchet to send them to NK.
Not anything as crude as a C130 transport!
Send 'em all to KJI in STYLE!
Our government and human rights groups are working hard for their release and concerned for their treatment.
The response has been humbling:
These two women, bravely entered illegally in NK and got caught.
So, they broke NK law on their own soil. Like it or not, they went in ILLEGALLY.
Punishment can seem hard, but they broke their law.
There are more stories that NK WENT OVER THE BORDER to grab them on China soil
considers "illegal border crossing" to be a "grave crime" punishable by a decade in jail.
Sounds just like what rightwingers want to happen to Mexicans.
...Please explain the Iraqi invasion.
Tryin make troll heads explode THIS early in the mornin?
Someone's got a case of the Mondays!
first to shock and awe North Korea, I am sure these two journalists could have proceeded unimpeded to a $36 million KBR dining room to cover a US briefing on the world in a Post Axis of Evil American millenium.
I sure hope the North Korean's won't adopt our examples and waterboard those trespassing terrorists to save imaginary North Korean lives.
them tropical breezes.
Good morning Ricky. How the fromm are you?
off my undershirt trying to locate that billboard with the kid and the gun on it who killed the abortion Dr. after being hypnotized by Lou Dobbs through a Red State chat room.
And you? How is Martini and Mr. Pissed?
It's all good here. We decided yesterday to take Martini on vacation with us next month. Martini has already made a list of must-have things for his fancy ocean side vacation. I don't dare let him near the computer, he'll be visiting every website that sells fancy resort dog wear.
replacement Busy Bee in an emergency.
Sorry, I don't know what a busy bee is so I don't know where to get one.
That doesn't helped the prisoners; you've practically accused them of waging war on Korea.
I guess that's my question: did they go into NK knowingly, or did they somehow get in there without knowing it?
I find that hard to believe.
So, I guess my other question is: what were they thinking?
What makes you think that they were nabbed in N. Korea? Also, a quick perusal with Google Earth shows that the border is ill-defined in many places, because it runs through extremely rough country.
sure which side of the border they were on. I think they had intended to stay on the Chinese side of the border, and either unintentionally crossed over to NK, or as some have suggested, maybe they were lied to about having crossed the border and were removed from Chinese soil.
What evidence do you have that they ever entered N. Korea? N. Korea has kidnapped thousands of people from S. Korea and Japan for various purposes over the years -- what's two more from Chinese soil for propaganda?
Could be wurst
Could you imagine 12 years of:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGhmtGEXKG0
May I see your passport please.
As hostages, these two reporters are being used to negotiate for N.Korean nuclear concessions. If we had not had 8 years of infantilism in the WH, we would have some basis for negotiation.
but did they illegally enter North Korea or not. Does this not matter? I mean can Americans just do as they please, and then trust that the US gov't will get them out of it.
they were climbing Mt. McKinley and the helicopters would follow? Jeez.
if they're republican. These ladies are obviously not republican.
The Bushies believed they could do anything they please - invade a country, shit on the Constitution, torture POW's - and fully trusted that the gov't would "get them out of it" (and it worked).
Two journalists cross a border and they should just be left to rot in jail.
Yep, you're a jerk.
I personally know Scott McClellan and two of his nieces (not to mention his momma). Even Scott only accuses them of PISSING on the Constitution. You have gone too far.
Given N. Korea's history of kidnapping foreigners for ransom and propaganda, they probably didn't enter N. Korea under their own power.
With the case of the journalist held in Iran, and now two held in North Korea, I notice that they are good looking women. This makes me curious as to whether there may be reason to believe that these "journalists" actually have other agenda's rather than simply reporting. Could they be public servants of the US that were a little sloppy in performing their duties?
journalists like the ones who read the teleprompters at FOX.
But I doubt the two in NK are actually spies.
Just reporters with really bad luck.
.
EVERYTHING'S made in China.
:)
Even the Chinese?
Lucky bastards.
But tech support is outsourced to Bangalor, India.
By my relating good looking women to spies, is not a ignoramous comment meant to say if you are a good looking journalist, you are a spy. I am saying that by being a good looking journalist, you have the potential to get inside a situation in the name of journalism a little bit easier than a man of equal qualities. As a good looking woman, you are also able to get in with the men that hold powerful positions within the country. Journalism, to me, seems to be the perfect cover for intelligence activities.
the last vestiges of journalism will finally be put to rest.
Journalists should under no circumstance, be used as spies.
I'm not defending the notion. However, the field is ripe for further corruption.
I bet these recent arrests may have the intelligentsia reconsidering the recruitment of journalists for spying.
Because journalists are under suspicion already when working in certain countries, and using them to spy not only puts these people in more danger than they're already in, but would cause an international backlash, that could possibly have our journalists banned from entering any country they want to report on.
It's just a bad idea all around.
If they are actually spies, then it shows the piss poor preparation on the part of the agency(ies) that recruited them to begin with. This, if in fact was an intelligence op...was an epic fail.
And, furthermore, Pawn...journalism is corrupt enough already in this country.
TOP to bottom.
There's some speculation that pre-war Ian Fleming was spying under the cover of being a Reuters reporters headquartered on Fleet Street.
That's slightly different.
But I think it would still further erode what little trust other nations have in journalists, especially American ones. If they get caught that is.
Piss up a rope, you misogynist twit.
Hey, at least North Korea doesn't torture enemy combatants like America does! I think 12 years is pretty light; and frankly, check out that swift Justice. Arrested in March, trial and sentence in two and half months. Damn. Our justice system could learn from NK. Anyway, they entered the county illegally and misrepresented their intended reasons for being there... What would we do? Yeah, I know, we'd give them jobs cleaning our pools, or picking our fruit and then bitch and moan about them being here... They should consider themselves lucky there were not accused by the U.S. authorities.
He's angry about rampant illegal border crossings..
"Hey, at least North Korea doesn't torture enemy combatants like America does!"
Hey, at least NKorea puts it prisoners to work....instead of caging up people that are perfecly able to pick strawberries, cabbage, or do other farm work, levy work, forest fire prevention work...etc
maybe we need some chain gangs to do the "work Americans won't do"
Yea, the quote sucks.....So does our prison system...and our immigration system...and our ....system in general!
awhile back in this country...that didn't work out too well.
12 years of hard labor in the DPRK means that they have been sentenced to be tortured to death for the misfortune of being kidnapped by the DPRK on Chinese soil.
It would probably be easy to work with China to have these nuclear-armed crazies ousted. China would gain a more reliable ally, and the world would be a safer place.
but NK's military is formidable...even against China.
It would be very ugly. And KJI might just nuke everyone he can out of spite if NK is attacked by anyone.
North Korea 'says' their military formidable. I have heard that it is supposedly a million in ranks. How do they feed a million man army when their citizens literally drop like flies in the street from starvation?
Soylent Green?
Gotta keep the military fed.
But that is a good point really.
N. Korea's real ace in the hole is thousands of artillery pieces sited in massive bunkers within range of Seoul. And all it takes to serve those is a few tens of thousands of guys and some giant underground armories. The DPRK has had nearly sixty years to build and stock that particular plan B.
Meanwhile Karl Rove and Dick Cheney are free to roam the streets. Where's the justice?
Greece detains two reporters for illegal entry
08/06/2009
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/e...
ATHENS, Greece - Border guards arrested two cameramen from Finland's state TV on Saturday (June 6th), for allegedly attempting to enter the country illegally from Turkey. Police said on Sunday that the pair was caught trying to cross the Evros River along the Greek-Turkish border. They were reportedly trying to film an attempt by illegal immigrants to sneak into the country. Guards also detained an illegal immigrant.
So, other countries have the same problem. Interesting. It's not just North Korea.
Hmmm.
According to the BBC it is.
Germany, France, Italy and Britain are being hit hard by illegal Africans and I think Asians as well.
Mexico has problems with it's southern border trying to keep out people from even further south South America.
Last I heard, I think the Canadians closed their borders to any futures Americans trying to escape from the draft.
funny how every country on the planet can close or at least try to close their borders...except this one.
Ya even bring it up and you're labeled all kindsa shit.
I know this comment will get me in trouble, but I don't care.
African immigrants take a ferry across the Straits of Atlas to Spain. Once they're across that border, they can move through Europe pretty freely.
The Greek-Turkish border is a bit different. The countries are not friendly with each other at all. A lot of ugly history there.
I didn't know that actually.
I done went and larnt me somethin!
According to the BBC they often capsize, leading to situations like when Cubans capsize off of Florida.
Which is flanked by the Pillars of Hercules.
Need to wake up!
I totally missed that too!
The Atlas mountains form the southern pillar, so it's an understandable mistake.
Very ugly history, including various rounds of colonialism, ethnic cleansing, and every other sort of evil, in both directions, over the past thousand years or so.
It takes different forms in each country, but a lot of the so-caled "illegal" immigration is a direct legacy of our colonial history.
To put it another way, if your ancestors invaded another country & stole their land, their resources & their family members, then destroyed their culture, language & community bonds, don't be surprised when their descendents show up at your doorstep, wanting their land & livelihoods back (or equivalent compensation).
handed them over to the NKs.
and one I've not even thought of.
that or a variation thereof is all I can come up with.
Some of the reports suggested that over aggressive guards plucked them off Chinese land, but think about it, how would the guards know they would have any value, unless they thought they were kidnapping Chinese nationals, [like they did to Japanese] then finding out they had Americans. But when you think the grabbing up some Chinese ladies from China, a neighbour that could crush you by blowing their nose a bit hard, why would you risk that?
And I don't think they have an open border, unmarked, even with China. I could be wrong there.
The guards could have something going on with the traffickers that would have made it easy to let them know they had American busybodies on their arse that would be of great value to the NK gov.
it...corrupt guards on the take with the traffickers.
The stuff nightmares are made of.
I really worry for those two.
The border between the two countries is dashed on Google Earth along substantial sections and in very rough country. It may be unmarked or even undefined in some areas.
..
Amy Goodman did a segment on these two a couple of weeks ago. A former negotiator and State Department Official under Pres. Clinton said that silence is the key. The beligerent attitude that GW took was the opposite of what had been effective in the past. VP Gore was silent because it helps N. Korea to save face and go through their motions and propaganda. This is exactly what was expected. The next thing is that they will be expelled never to return or they will spend time at the work camp.
Two women are in labor camps in North Korea and you link to a petition to sign?? Are you kidding me? I'm sure the State Department is just waiting for enough signatures before it actually does something... yeah
A petition for the State Department to "get them back"??? Since when has the "left" (I'm using the term quite loosely obviously) supported the state intervening in a country that has been the victim of imperialism from the US since the 1950s. I suggest this article about the position of the DPRK by the PSL about the nuclear question for example:
http://www.pslweb.org/site/News2?page=NewsArt...
Don't support the assault on the DPRK
Dude, before you go spouting nonsense, you need to spend some time reading some of the great reportage on N. Korea being done by folks such as nkeconwatch.com and dailynk.com, as well as the frequently update Google Earth map of the DPRK.
Or just consult some history. At the end of Japanese occupation, the part of Korea north of the 38th parallel was the richest and most industrialized part of the country. The south was an agrarian backwater. And now? RoK is an industrial powerhouse and the DPRK is the sick man of Asia. It's the nation-state equivalent of an Alzheimer's patient with a machine gun.
The first website you've listed certainly seems to be quite anti-DPRK and I can't read Korean so I'm not sure about the second one. I mean take this article on the RoK monitoring pro-DPRK websites http://www.nkeconwatch.com/2008/09/25/south-k... where the author puts in a bit of op-ed in their "reporting" and talk about how it's more of a "North Korean policy" to do such a thing. And the rest of the article goes on to insult pro-DPRK groups.
So an anti-DPRK website like the one you have listed enjoys safety, yet in the RoK you can't have altering views on the DPRK.
I'm not a huge fan of the DPRK but that's not to say that they are not the victim of US imperialism since the 1950s. I'm also not a fan of this sentencing that they've handed down to the journalists and hope that they reconsider.
As for history, North Korea's economy outperformed the RoK until the 1980s and it wasn't until then that the RoK was the "more prosperous" of the two. There are quite a few reasons why the situation is different now and I'm not sure I see the relevance of such a point.
Why has the United States not come out against Israel's illegal possession of nuclear weapons? Israel has been much more violent in the same amount of time than the DPRK has been. Will the US consider putting Israel on the terror list like it's considering putting the DPRK back on?
Again, this isn't about the DPRK but how the US has historically and continues to treat the DPRK (which also a big part in explaining why the DPRK is in the position it's in today by the way)
Huh? The post you quote makes reference to the DPRK's aggressive suppression of dissent in order to attack the actions of the RoK government. Do you deny that the DPRK suppresses dissent? Do you deny that the DPRK maintains several concentration camps for political dissidents that cover more than 100 square miles each (as described in The Aquariums of Pyongyang and visible in satellite photos)?
There are a number of pro-DPRK sites on the web (including a Cafe Press store) -- they just aren't based in the RoK. I certainly do not approve of the RoK's suppression of the expression of pro-DPRK views from within the RoK. I do, however, recognize that their behavior is a very pale shadow of what the DPRK does to anyone who dares express a dissenting view.
As for the economic history, I see no reason to believe the economic performance claims of the DPRK. In addition, their economy was being heavily subsidized by the USSR up until the late 80s. I agree that in the 1970s there was much less reason to prefer the RoK to the DPRK -- both were poor and repressive dictatorships. However, even then, the RoK was merely authoritarian while the DPRK was totalitarian. In the intervening time, the RoK has become a democratic nation and begun to live up to its economic and human potential, while the DPRK has stagnated. The RoK is hardly a perfect government or society, but it does provide freedom, prosperity, and three squares a day to its people. The DPRK cannot claim any of those things.
My thing is this when immigrants come to America and commit a crime they do jail or prison time then be deported back to their country even if the country said let them go so they could be if in there country and America said no but when American commit a crime in somebody's else country they want there people to be free and not do jail time or prison time.. What America! So if it's like that then America need to relase people who in jail/prison and send them back to their country without doing anytime when the commit a crime... America don't own or run this world...
What evidence do you have that these women entered the DPRK of their own volition, let alone committed a crime there?
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