Countdown Special Comment: They're guilty of this, Mr. President-Elect. They're guilty as sin.
By Nicole Belle Monday Jan 19, 2009 7:02pm
On the eve of his inauguration, Keith Olbermann exhorts President-elect Barack Obama to do the one thing that will tell the world that we are a country of laws, and that will enable us to look forward without fear that we could once again face the trampling of the Constitution and the slide towards totalitarianism we've seen in the last eight years.
Mr. President-Elect, you are entirely correct.As you say, "what we have to focus on is getting things right in the future, as opposed to looking at what we got wrong in the past."
And that means prosecuting all those involved in the Bush Administration's torture of prisoners -- and starting at the top.
You're also right that you should not "want your first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch-hunt." But your only other option might be to let this sit and fester, indefinitely.
Because, Mr. President-Elect, some day there will be another Republican president -- or even a Democrat just as blind as Mr. Bush to ethics and this country's moral force -- and he will look back to what you did about Mr. Bush -- or what you did not do -- and he will see precedent. Or, as Cheney saw, he will see how not to get caught next time.
Prosecute, Mr. President-Elect, and even if you get not one conviction, you will still have accomplished good, for generations unborn.
It's not as if Olbermann is going out on a limb here. On Obama's own site Change.gov, it's one of the most popular issues (though one the team is reluctant to answer), no doubt aided by Change.org's Bob Fertik's campaign to force it on the President-elect's agenda.
Transcripts below the fold
Finally tonight as promised, a Special Comment about the President-Elect, the soon-to-be President-Emeritus, torture, and its prosecution.
We have tortured people.
You and I.
This is the people's democracy, we are the people, these are our elected officials. That they did not come to us and ask to act thusly in our names is unfortunate, indeed criminal, but it is also almost irrelevant. They work for us, they tortured people, and so... we have tortured people.
You and I know we have tortured Khalid Sheikh-Mohammed. We not only know about it; we have now heard it boasted about by one of the men who as of tomorrow will no longer work for us: George Walker Bush.
"...the techniques were necessary and are necessary to be used on a rare occasion to get information necessary to protect the American people," Mr. Bush said to Fox News on January 11th. "One such person who gave us information was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. "And I'm in the Oval Office and I am told that we have captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the professionals believe he has information necessary to secure the country. “
"So I ask what tools are available for us to find information from him, and they give me a list of tools. And I said, are these tools deemed to be legal? And so we got legal opinions before the decision was made.
"And I think when people study the history of this particular episode they'll find out we gained good information from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in order to protect our country. We believe that the information we gained helped save lives on American soil."
Never mind Mr. Bush's delusions here -- never mind that all primary sources who witnessed the interrogation of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said they got nothing from him until they started buddying up to him.
Never mind that Mr. Bush's supporters' favorite torture construction -- the mythical "ticking time bomb" scenario -- not only did not transpire here, but Mr. Bush hasn't even had the imagination to pretend it, in order to just slightly cover his moral tracks.
The key, is that this statement, if it had been under oath, would be a confession to a war crime. Mr. Bush is proactive: "I ask what tools are available".
Mr. Bush is aware of the legal haze into which he steps: "And I said, are these tools deemed to be legal?".
Mr. Bush realizes the tools he has chosen have been used: "We gained good information from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed".
Since we know from previous admissions from the Pentagon that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was water-boarded... we can infer that Mr. Bush knew he would be water-boarded, and knew afterwards that he had been… water-boarded.
Mr. Bush is guilty.
He's guilty as sin.
Mr. President-Elect, you were first asked about all this on the 18th of April, last.
I am proud to say you were asked about it by a fellow who got onto his high school newspaper while I was the editor -- Will Bunch of the Philadelphia Daily News.
"I think you are right," you told him. "If crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt, because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve. So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment."
Good. Amen.
But in that brief interview, was born -- or at least elucidated -- the loophole, as you put it, of "genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies."
Vice-President-Elect Biden echoed it on December 21st - a statement to which your transition team has directed all those to whom this is a paramount issue:
"The questions of whether or not a criminal act has been committed or a very, very, very bad judgment has been engaged in, is something the Justice Department decides."
And - after his comment last week, with straightforwardness that was like water to a lost soul in the Sahara, that water boarding is torture - your nominee at Justice, Mr. Holder, echoed:
"We don't want to criminalize policy differences that might exist between the outgoing administration and the administration that is about to take over."
But Mr. President-Elect: You have a confession.
Since this statement of a structure of policy, prefacing policy itself, from Mr. Biden, you have Mr. Bush's confession. Moreover, since Mr. Biden's statement, you have a legal assessment, from within the bowels of the Bush Administration itself.
"We tortured (Mohammed al-) Qahtani," Judge Susan Crawford told the Washington Post a week ago. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture."
And that was why, Judge Crawford added, that as the Bush Administration official in charge of deciding whether or not to bring detainees at Guantanamo Bay to trial, she decided in Qahtani's case, not to.
And this, Mr. President-Elect, was not the obvious water-boarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
This was a more insidious combination of legally-approved procedures that still nearly killed this man Qahtani.
"The techniques they used were all authorized," Judge Crawford continued, "but the manner in which they applied them was overly aggressive and too persistent... This was not any one particular act; this was just a combination of things that had a medical impact on him, that hurt his health."
In fact, Mr. President-Elect, the records at Gitmo show that Qahtani's heartbeat eventually slowed to 35 beats per minute.
"It was abusive and uncalled for. And coercive. Clearly coercive... I sympathize with the intelligence gatherers in those days after 9/11, not knowing what was coming next and trying to gain information to keep us safe. But there still has to be a line that we should not cross. And unfortunately what this has done, I think, has tainted everything going forward."
If you are worried about the Republicans viewing any torture prosecution in the way you postulated to Will Bunch -- "a partisan witch hunt" -- you can remind them that the woman who said all that, Susan Crawford is a life-long Republican.
So, Mr. President-Elect, beyond whatever else will come out, as the whistleblowers begin to, just after noon tomorrow…
You have your predecessor's unofficial confession and you have this singular evaluation by a principal in your predecessor's administration, this kind of line-level confession.
They're guilty of this, Mr. President-Elect.
They're guilty as sin.
Since he talked to my friend Bunch in April, Mr. Obama's only lengthy comments about this, were made to George Stephanopoulos on January 11th of this year.
See if a disturbing theme becomes evident.
"Obviously we're going to be looking at past practices and I don't believe that anybody is above the law. On the other hand I also have a belief that we need to look forward as opposed to looking backwards."
Later:
"My instinct is for us to focus on -- how do we make sure that moving forward we are doing the right thing."
Later still:
"My orientation's going to be, to move forward."
Finally:
"What we have to focus on is getting things right in the future, as opposed to looking at what we got wrong in the past."
Sadly, as commendable as the intention here might seem, this country has never succeeded in "moving forward" without first cleansing itself of its mistaken past.
In point of fact, every effort to merely 'draw a line in the sand' and declare the past, dead, has served only to keep the past alive-- and often to strengthen it.
We compromised with slavery in the Declaration of Independence -- and four score and nine years later we had buried 600,000 of our sons and brothers in a Civil War.
After that war's ending, we compromised with the social restructuring and protection of the rights of minorities in the South. And a century later, we had not only not resolved anything, but black leaders were still being assassinated in the cities of the South.
We compromised with Germany and the reconstruction of Europe after the First World War -- nobody even arrested the German Kaiser, let alone conducted War Crimes trials and 19 years later there was an indescribably more evil Germany and a more heart-rending Second World War.
We compromised with the Trusts of the early 1900's, and today we have corporations too big to let fail.
We compromised with The Palmer Raids and got McCarthyism, and we compromised with McCarthyism and got Watergate, and we compromised with Watergate and the junior members of the Ford Administration realized how little was ultimately at risk, and they grew up to be Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney.
But Mr. President-Elect, you are entirely correct.
As you say, "what we have to focus on is getting things right in the future, as opposed to looking at what we got wrong in the past."
And that means prosecuting all those involved in the Bush Administration's torture of prisoners -- and starting at the top.
You're also right that you should not "want your first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch-hunt."
But your only other option might be to let this sit and fester, indefinitely.
Because, Mr. President-Elect, some day there will be another Republican president -- or even a Democrat just as blind as Mr. Bush to ethics and this country's moral force -- and he will look back to what you did about Mr. Bush -- or what you did not do -- and he will see precedent.
Or, as Cheney saw, he will see how not to get caught next time.
Prosecute, Mr. President-Elect, and even if you get not one conviction, you will still have accomplished good, for generations unborn.
Because merely by acting, you will deny Mr. Bush what he most wants.
Right now, without prosecutions, without this nation standing up and saying "this was wrong, we will atone" -- Mr. Bush's version of what happened goes into the historical record of this nation:
Torture was legal.
It worked.
George Bush saved the country.
The End.
We have tortured people.
You and I, Mr. President-Elect.
This is the people's democracy. We are the people, these were our elected officials. That they did not come to us and ask to act thusly in our names is unfortunate, indeed criminal, but it is also almost irrelevant. They worked for us, they tortured people, and so we have tortured people.
Thus, beginning tomorrow, it is up to you... not just to discontinue this… but to prevent it.
At the end of his first year in office, Mr. Lincoln tried to contextualize the Civil War for those who still wanted to compromise with the evils of secession and slavery.
"The struggle of today," Lincoln wrote, "is not altogether for today - it is for a vast future also."
Mr. President-Elect, you have been handed the beginning of that future.
Use it -- to protect our children, and our distant descendants, from anything, like this, ever happening again.
Good night, and good luck.








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not one minute of rest.
I think one of the reasons that there is hesitancy, is to wait until Bush/Cheney are completey gone (1 more day).
The inferences made that there will be prosecutions, would have emboldened Bush to issue broad-blanket pardons and clemencys. I think we need for Bush to be completely out of office before any substantive talk of investigations, indictments and convictions can be discussed openly by congress. Obama will follow their lead, and the first order of business is getting Rove and Miers before congress without any protections.
We must persevere in our struggle to bring those to justice, but timing is critical. Wait one more day...
I was thinking the same thing, but man...these guys are good. They have thought out all of this, Karl Rove et al.
hurt his back while lifting boxes and will be attending the Inauguration tomorrow in a wheelchair.
I think it's all just a ploy to make it more difficult for the D.C. cops to arrest and cuff him...you know, him being "disabled" and all.
Snark.
Cheney hurt his back lifting his "man" sized safe.
Of Cheney walking off with a huge safe on his back. (Sounding like the Penquin)
Get the fuck outta my way. whaa whaa whaaa.
Hey fuck face, come here. Grab this. waa waaa waaa.
I can just picture that too!
I was thinking about that....why would the Vice Pres of the US, 67 years old, with a history of bad health lately, be going around lifting boxes? You would think he had people for that. That evil old fuck has has some underlying reason for showing up in a wheelchair.
SOMEONE ELSE SEEING WHAT'S IN THE BOX!
I would just love to peek into those boxes.
he had parked outside.
... they've already shredded the good stuff, and Dick was just moving his collection of crappy Republican pron.
Naked Gun just flashed through my head. The last scene with O.J. in the wheelchair and it "gets away". Cheney in a runaway wheelchair! Ooops.
:<[)
C'mon, he's still VP -- he doesn't have people to do this??? I don't buy it. I think it's a ploy for sympathy and Dick, you're not getting it here. In your own words to Pat Lehey, "Go F*$K yourself"!
He can find it right in the dictionary. It's after sh*t and suicide!
(OK, I stole that from a comedian. Charles Pierce, female impersonator deluxe!)
Bush is no longer president in 18 minutes from now. If he doesn't issue pardons in the next few minutes, it's all over. then it is only for Mr. Obama to find the will to do what he damn well knows must be done. It is not only torture, it's committing crimes against the peace of the world, orchestrating and waging a war of aggression and colonization, crimes against humanity, an illegal occupation, in which he failed to protect thelives and well-being of those living under occupation...then there are the thousands of ofelony level crimes he and his committed domestically and are continuing to perpetrate right through the final moments of his regime. He and his partners in crime and atrocity must be brought to justice, or the enbling and legitimizing precendent become written in stone.
Obama will fail as a president if he accepts, in what finally distills down to cowardice, mere expedients that aren't even practical in the short term, accepting them in the hopes that they are a viable substitute for obvious and enduring principles. Obama is at a crossroads point of choices where he can choose doing what is easy - but wrong on a great many levels, or doing what is right, but difficult and painful. The antisocial psychopaths who have been a party to the crimes and atrocities are of course going to scream, "witch hunt!". And if Obama uses that cry as an excuse to cave, he won't only be dropping the ball, he will be deeply, deeply complicit in all the future crimes and atrocities committed by the despots of the future.
If he can't, or won't, find the will and courage to do what needs doing, then at the least, he should get us back into the ICC, and then allow them to be extradited when the times comes.
It was a good special comment. I haven't watched his show for about 1 year, but remember some of his old special comments. I happened to catch it as I walked by. It was spot on. My feelings summed up exactly.
Bring 'em all to justice!
... and catching Countdown with K.O. again. Love it when the camera flies over the crowd outside the MSNBC booth on the Mall and those little "Arrest Bush" signs keep popping up. Heh.
Obama will do no such thing. He will preserve the status quo for his corporate and think tank masters. Most of his appointees come from the same think tanks and Military Industrial Complex corporations that the Bush/Clinton/Bush/Reagan/Carter/Ford/Nixon/LBJ picks came from...figure it out.
because if he really did do the proper investigations - what they would reveal would lead to outright REVOLUTION and blood in the streets.
That's the Truth, and you know it is too.
On the whole, wouldn't Obama be less likely to pardon Bush if such an opportunity arose than Ford pardoned Nixon?
Cheney apparently hurt his back while moving boxes and will attend the inauguration in a wheelchair (*snicker*).
Maybe the bad karma has already started for these bastards. That would be so sweet.
Since this is the last night of Bush in the WH, this Special Comment Keith made was, yet again, right on the mark. Hopefully, Obama will take this crucial message into consideration, so he should've listened to this.
about having Keith on the jury panel.
that freekin wheelchair carefully for hidden weapons!
Cheney's got a gun
Cheney's got a gun
His dog day's just begun
Now everybody is on the run
Tell me it's not true
It's Cheney's last I.O.U.
no kidding!
It was the easiest way he could think of to get a gun in there. Must be a friend needing face-shooting.
That would be scary if Cheney hid a shotgun in his wheelchair at the Inaugural for tomorrow, which would have been overlooked by all the heightened security. Still, it would continue to reiterate his true colors.
My guess is that Obama will take care of other, more pressing issues 1st. But there will be growing pressure and in late 2010 the special prosecutor will be appointed. And in 2011 Cheney, Rove (and some others) will be indicted.
I think Rove may've been indicted before, but he snubbed the court/judicial system to show up before the hearing committee.
Hope he won't be too elusive his whole life, though.
The pressure for justice has been too long unanswered.
Justice delayed is Justice denied.
..to say to someone, "You're a Special Prosecutor! Go, special prosecute!" A day, a week, a month? Appointment must take place real soon or it will be a big failure, a major failure, on the part of this administration. Worse, he'll lose my support.
Stupidity is no excuse for crimes and misdemeanors. Stupidity is no good reason to pardon a criminal. They committed crimes and they need to be brought to justice or we will never, ever, be the great nation we believe ourselves to be.
... that we be honest with ourselves. It's easy to blame it on 'the system' or the 'corporate masters' and 'real power' in Washington, but that's really a way of saying, 'we don't want to think about it.'
Or look at it.
Or admit that we were complicit by taking impeachment 'off the table.'
Which is why the cheerleaders of BushCo are sticking to their story - they have no choice, because they haven't the integrity to admit error.
I NEVER took impeachment off the table. And neither did millions of other Americans who have been outraged at Congress for the past two years at least. Please be precise about how you frame your "complicit-guilt" statements. It was Congress, not the American people, who took impeachment off the table.
Right. While I did my share of complaining and writing to Congress, clearly, 'outrage' wasn't enough.
Was there more that could have been done? Maybe not.
But the lesson is that even when we're here saying 'NO,' as long as the Commander-in-Chief is conducting torture, the stain lands on us, too.
But he stole America's identity to do it. He's no different than a thief who steals your financial records, spends every cent of your money, tortures and murders people using your good name and goods he bought with your money, and does violence to your honor until the truth is revealed. You'll never get back all of what he stole and spent, for much of it is non-renewable.
Good luck with that.
/the Cheney administration will walk free and clear.
But the bottom line is.
It's the ECONOMY STUPID!
Oh, how true fmr. pres. Clinton was on the REAL fundamentals of the economy.
His job is to go about the nation's business. An independent investigator can determine whether there is reason to proceed with prosecutions and at that time a special prosecutor can be appointed and so on. This really belongs to the justice department, doesn't it?
Good luck with that.
Starting tomorrow.
Justice delayed is Justice denied.
That's a very clever protesting slogan - "Justice delayed=Justice denied"...Sadly, just about all federal politics seem to actually be above the law.
the Justice Department of the evil doers they planted there?
If we are going to try them there cannot be spies and fifth columnists, right?
And, that special prosecutor should be appointed by Congress! Aren't they the people who supposedly represent "the people"?
If we don't want an "imperial" presidency, then let's stop making one. Why is it Obama's responsibility? What do those 500+ people on Capitol Hill get paid for anyway? (Stupid rhetorical question.)
served on the Intel committee or voted to keep Lieberman in his chairmanship.
its like the end of a long long nightmare
Obama can emulate or paraphrase Ford on how "our long national nightmare is over." That's what at least some would suggest he can put in his Inaugural speech.
All this work we all did is paying off.
They can say what they want. The blogosphere has had a huge impact
None of this would have happened if it wasn't for all you good people.
Thank You.
Thank You John, Nicole, Steve Benen, SilentPatriot, Bluegal, Driftglass,nonny and Heather.
And all the rest.
And to all my friends y,x,AndyK, misskitty, Rasputin, Captain Kangaroo, Errol,tyree, fastfeat,ferrofluid,getalife and all the rest of you good people . You know who you are.
I just want to say thank you for all your efforts.
We did it.
I'm sorry if I missed some people. There is just too many to name.
Lets hope for a brighter future.:)
Oh, I'd be making a big mistake if I didn't mention CoInTel, and LA Confidential. Bascombe too. Hey bud, how you doin?
I'll add to this as my memory kicks in.:)
OK, chicano2, Rusty Shacklford. Klunk.
:)
Thank you right back, Muddy.
Wow. just W0W
:<[)
Good words, mudshark. Keep at it all of you. And thank you.
I like it when site curators compliment all of us on the comments we make to spread truth.
savoring the times and hoping that Obama can overcome the angry washington mob (i.e., repugs and press)
thank you for that list. it has been great being here with all of them and you and more.
add PissedOffPatricia, ron, XoitesDefendstheConstitution, Rachel Maddow, CodePink... Kos, Atrios, ....
I forgot P.O.P. aw shit, I'm in trouble now.:)
While we're at it, Strawberry, Abbywood,sphinx,Calgarly Lady, Concerned Canuk.
Sec Humanist, Alice X. curtinglus, Col Kilgore, liberalNmoderation
Geeezzzzz, this list can go on for days.
I'm workin on it.
P2b. I know I left out a few ladies. We need Ron's help.
Come in ron.
Where is Bangkok Bob these days? Hope he's OK!
.
Gov't that is.
But he is definitely on the list!
And really to just about everyone here. Thanks much for helping keep me centered (more or less...) Learned a lot, kept me thinking positively while getting the lowdown on much of what's groing on "behind the scenes".
Can't hang tonight--got to get some zzzs and do the job interview early AM. With any luck, I'll have a new job at the same time our country gets its new boss.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss? NOT.
GNA--drink one, burn one, or whatever else you enjoy for me...
on getting that new job.
I'm rootin' fer ya!
amazinely short on memory!
Please feel free to add to the list.
as you say to many to mention but i want to thank the old gang the ones who started up the popularity of this blog , most are gone now why they left who knows but they were the first one comes to mind uncle fester , mirth, and even the old trolls that mixed it up on here with us they made life interesting after all what would a good blog be without controversy? if we all had the same view point this blog would be just another so so blog like the republican blogs have all been ! hell you even forgot stan the man rosenthal ! weve come a long way and lost many good friends and even thier names , so heres to thoes old timers and the fucktards of old!
Sorry Stan.
and aangus,can't forget aangus :)<
p> Ok who else tyree? You've been here longer than I have. Surely you can name a few more.
d-day , questiongirl, mr eman,lafingas he was here from the start ! ill remember some more as the cobwebs depart from my noggin!
The Future is NoW.
Tomorrow
He'll lead us
Tomorrow
It's only
a day away!
(Apologies to Annie.)
Better act fast in bringing Cheney to justice, Mr President. There is no extradition treaty between Dubai and the USA.
Cowards and Hypocrites.
Justice will not happen.
Sadly, it seems like just about all of those with executive and congressional power are above the law, whereas, the average US citizen is subject to the law.
just a little longer. Investigation of BushCo crimes should originate within the Justice Department -- where a bunch of people will jump on the chance to get revenge on Bush. Once they have an initial foundation for prosecution, THEN it is timely to get a Special Prosecutor on board. Expect at least 6 or 8 months without hearing anything ... but one bright morning, the day will come.
If Obama goes after BushCo right now, as so many of us want, it would completely de-rail the other things he has to do. We can bide our time.
Justice delayed may be justice denied ...
But revenge is a dish best served cold.
Seymour Hersh may be on the trail to investigate the Bushies.
Also whatever happened with Russ Feingold's plans on accountability for the Bush admin.? Where did his backbone go from that?
but just a more aggressive sounding hairless reed.
the booshies from the justice department. the boosh cronies were on a hiring spree until they were busted on the attorney firings. anyone hired in the last eight years should be fired.
Today, in his speech, Barack said he is going to need us. So we are as obliged to act in furtherance of what we need as we were obliged to vote our conscience.
I would like to see a Million-Person March on Washington for full employment. For starters.
Good idea, there probably should be an unemployed/underemployed march on the Mall. There could be so much to relate to one another, along with a president who will listen to the people and not his gut-instinct.
Prosecute
Punish
We find a representative with nads.
It's the law.
... that didn't stop Pelosi and Reid from sucking up to Chimpy & The Brain.
"Congress SHALL ..." in regards to impeachment, does not mean 'if it feels like it' - it means MUST. Just like 'thou shalt not steal' and 'thou shalt not bear false witness ...'
Several weeks ago when this subject came up I stated that Obama would pull a Gerry Ford and proclaim that we must look forward for the betterment of the country. But as Olberman points out, if we don't hold those in offices of power to account, we are doomed to keep repeating these mistakes. Two differnet sets of laws for them and us is not how or why this country was founded. The time for the double standard to come to an end is now. Those who broke the law should be held accountable for their actions whether torture, illegal wire taping of US citizens within the US or a host of other crimes like outing a CIA agaent.
We elected you Barrack because we believed as you said in the rule of law as well as the Constitution. Hoping these matters can be dusted under a rug will not work. Yes the economy sucks and is heading into the crapper. But we have nothing as a foundation under our country if the rule of law which has set us apart from other countries is not metered out to those who break the law. Then and only then can we move forward with the knowledge that those who were responsible for making our country a laughing stock around the world by perverting our laws have paid their price for taking such actions. Doing nothing and looking the other way will only allow similar feelings by millions to fester.
Accountability in D.C. has been non existent for much of the last eight years. Screw the witch hunt nonsenses and let the chips fall where they may. We are either a country that can be looked upon where hope, democracy and the rule of law are our cornerstone, or we can continue with business as usual where one outgoing good old boys club simply passes the baton onto another. Our hopes may be high, but seeing is believing.
why not wait until he takes the fucking oath!
Obama will be president tomorrow New
Mon, 01/19/2009 - 20:30 — CoIntelPro.Pron...
why not wait until he takes the fucking oath!
Because the red flags are already flying
I'll keep the faith.
Just remember that we will be hearing about Obama from the same asshats that defended boosh.
Just ignore it.
to keep from screaming at the screens.
But if there is wavering now, I sincerely hope this isn't a sign of things to come.
and we all have been through so much shit that we have hair-trigger tempers on the issues.
But I'm beginning to get the feeling that Barack just might be the craftiest rooster in the hen house. Surprises may be in store for all of us. (The good kind!)
you gotta watch for those 'thinker' types. LOL.
:<[)
I hope Obama realizes just how much this country wants to see its image improved... we must repent. The only way to take back the moral high ground is to hold the responsible parties accountable. Obama must wake to that fact!
when our people, troops or civilians, are captured or kidnapped and then tortured?
If we do nothing to prosecute and convict those who committed crimes, we won't have a leg to stand on when it comes time to complain.
In fact, if we do nothing, the world may just say to us, "Tough cheese, America. You should expect the same treatment you gave others."
us troops have hair-triggers.
no thier never will be any bush cheny criminals ever see a day of prison time as george hw bush said if the american people ever find out what we have done to them they would run us down and hang us! guess old george was wrong , as kieth says bush admited to war crimes on telivison and hes blowing kisses at obummer because he doesnt have the time to appoint a few honest men to gather information to convict these criminals, whats the matter with you people anyway? how much trouble is it to turn the matter over to a true patriot and an honest man like dennis kucinich ? im sure with the backing of every american that truely cares why were in this mess we may really find out many of the hidden crimes we still dont know about! go ahead and pat each other on the back but you still havent got a peace president or one who cares that justice was pissed away for expedience!
"The truth is the truth even if you are a minority of one." Mahatma Gandhi
A new interview on rule-of-law and prosecuting BushCo -- scroll down about 10 or 12 inches to view it.
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=taxonomy...
Rachel Maddow and Jonathan Turley do their usual excellent job on this topic ... well worth the few minutes to watch it.
Edit -- oops, had to patch the link, sorry if it didn't work before.
Edit again -- a fantastic and fiery SPEECH was just added to the top of the page I just linked. LISTEN to it -- fantastic! APPOINT a SPECIAL PROSECUTOR!
You are right, Col. Kilgore. That was an EXCELLENT speech, one of the best I've heard on the matter of prosecuting or not prosecuting GW Bush.
Our forebears envisioned a nation ruled by law and not by men with the most urgent of reasons. The "rule of men/royalty" led to the American Revolution, which replaced "royal fiat" with law as government, a kind of government in which no one is an exception to the law, PARTICULARLY not America's leaders.
If Obama has any integrity and loves America and its unique principles, he MUST not stand in the way of prosecution of the Bush-crimes, not even by implication or a reluctance due to his fear of being thought partisan. He must give investigations his whole-hearted support and instruct the investigators to get to the truth. Upholding the rule of Constitutional law is not partisan. It is American and benefits us all.
And on a personal level, if he refuses to allow investigation/prosecution of the Bush-crimes, what will he tell his daughters, whom he seems to adore? What can he say to them when they've reached the age of reason, other than to teach them that you don't obey the law when you're afraid of what people will think? THAT means you're one of the lawbreakers yourself. Is this really what he wants to teach his daughters? His wife? Never mind the rest of us....
Keith's right. This is Bush's legacy.
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll...
Watch out now, take care, beware of greedy leaders.
They'll take you where you should not go.
I personally believe that Obama will get things done and hold people accountable for their actions. He kept some people from the Bush administration for a good reason: You were an insider, now you work for us and we want the truth. First he has to make sure that his team will be confirmed, keep a low profile and quietly investigate. If you want to catch a squirrel, dont go after them flapping your arms.
I also believe that he is going to solve the economical, fuel and security. When the dumbass rednecks starts realizing that he will be a good president, the people itself will demand justice against the Bush administration, and once that happens, dirt will be released, hands behind your back.
I'll beg you please, don't be judgemental, justice is coming.
I think Obama's not wanting to tip his hand before the proper time.
He is a poker player after all...
agrees with Keith. I salivate just thinking about Bush & Co getting a life sentence for all the crimes and death they caused. But my logic says it isn't going to happen anytime soon.
1. Obama doesn't want to split the country up again right after becoming President.
2. If he prosecutes Bush & Co. his 'perfect union' speech and 'bipartisan' promises will become void in the eyes of many right wingers. He needs everyone in America to work together in the current crisis.
3. Adds another headache to all the other mess he has to deal with.
4. Did you know there are still many ignorant people around the world who don't know Americans torture? For example I know there are many people in Japan who still aren't aware of this fact. If Obama prosecutes Bush, it will become world news for months to come. Therefore, it will further tarnish the image of America around the world.
Moreover, if Obama does a good job as President in the next 1-2 years, who's going to complain if he does go ahead with the prosecution of Bush & Co.? All he needs is persistent public pressure within the US and the world to justify his actions by that time.
Remember Obama has already said The Shrub is a good man. I don't see him sending a good man to The Hague do you? If he's as crafty as I think he is, Obama will act Pope-like forgiving all, while the proper wheels of justice will do their work.
As I write this, Bush has got 8 hours left of his reign. Let's hope he sleeps in until he has to go to morning tea with the Obamas.
I have been so ashamed of my government for eight years now I can not express how truely ashamed I have been.
To think that 30% of our people are so selfish, so greedy, so ignorant, so hate filled, they would cast a vote for the axis of evil bush/chenny/republican party, just goes to show that the part of America that voted for bush were the ones that wanted to see America destroid!
They almost did it!
As for chenny in the wheelchair today.
Wouldn't it have been more in keeping with his actions as darth chenny if he road in a coffin?
give at least some support to our incoming president. He'll need it.
It's an historic celebration for African-Americans today and, hopefully, one small step for America.
In that theme, let's remember that it is still Pelosi who has been the problem. Impeachment starts in the House and whatever Pelosi says the House does (or doesn't do in the case of impeachment). True, what we see from the Justice Department will be telling. Will Rove and Meirs show up at Congressional hearings now?
The thought struck me yesterday that the Republican media can really make this ugly if they think it will play with Americans. Obama is black. Conyers is, well you know, black. If FOX and friends end up using background photos of Obama and Conyers together whenever Bush regime crimes are discussed, that will send a subliminal message. We need to set a foundation early to short circuit that reaction. Maybe that's what Obama is doing by being non-threatening to Republicans outside of letting Justice "do its job"?
"And that means prosecuting all those involved in the Bush Administration's torture of prisoners -- and starting at the top."
They damn well better be prosecuted!! Or there will be revolt!
keep this asshole away from The NEW President, he has all ready shot one Dem in the face.
Hey chimp, WE(America) executed both Japanese and German war criminals, after WW2, because they were found GUILTY of torturing American POW'S and YOU had to ask for opinions of others,who told you that torture was okie dokie?Bullshit Mr Bush! What the fuck did you do in college, other than stay drunk? As for myself, I graduated from high school ,in 1965, by the skin of my teeth, but I did remember studying the rules of "The Geneva Convention" and that it said that torture was and is AGAINST THE LAW and If President elect Obama lets this slide , I for one will not be voting for him in'12, I don't care what he does or doesn't do in the next 4 years! If Obama doesn't prosecute these war crimes then Mr Obama is WORSE than George w bush and all his criminal friends!
Bye Bush.. you bottom feeding, useless ,stupid, disingenuous,corporate sucking, traitorous, torturing, treasonous, moronic, corrupt, criminal, Constitution hating, wiretapping, 911 causing, lying sack of monkey shit. GOOD RIDDANCE !!!!!
Its a new day my American friends. WE HOPE
Enjoy the day USA !!
"I want to live just long enough to see the day when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come at too high a price. And then, I'll look into your lifeless eyes and wave ... like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"
-- Vir Cotto, Babylon 5 'Signs & Portents'
Goodbye, George.
If the bush administration is not prosecuted for war crimes among other things...
Then this country can NEVER have any moral high ground when dealing with any other nation.
I loved seeing all those "Arrest Bush" signs last night...
If the US doesn't put the neo-convicts under arrest and submit them to the world court in the Hague, then the US forfeits any justification for demanding others be held accountable for the same crime.
Of course, such hypocrisy is par for the course in US "foreign policy". It's also what caused 9/11.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/group.php?g...
I'm sure KO's self-righteous commentaries will have as much effect on BO's administration as they did on Bushes.
We got here by a series of pardons (starting with Ford's pardon of Nixon) and failings of new administrations to investigate/prosecute crimes of the previous administration (Clinton - Reagan/Bush Iran-Contra) and I don't see Mr. Hope doing anything to change course. So, that's where KO is off:
Someday is today; BO is that president.
Keith just showed that the U.S. government has always been a pile of shit. Keeping it is and has been the compromise. All voters, past and present, should be ashamed.
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