Open Letter To Cable News Channels In Time Of Crisis: REPORT THE FACTS ONLY!!!! Otherwise Known As STFU!
Dear 24 Hour Cable News Channels:
I understand your dilemma, I really do. You have 44 minutes on the hour to fill with content. And it has to be compelling stuff, so that the viewer isn't tempted to channel surf to your rivals. In the situation like the Fort Hood shootings, where news is coming scattershot and conflicting, it's even more difficult.
See? I get it.
But having said that--and I say this with love and respect--PLEASE, SHUT. THE. F#@K. UP. Don't spend time guessing on motivations when there is so little information available. Don't surmise terrorist intent when you can't possibly know. And for the love of everything holy, don't go to criminal profiler Cliff "A Hammer Sees Everything As A Nail" Van Zandt (a crime of which Keith Olbermann is also guilty) to make up utter bovine excrement.
At the time that Van Zandt was waxing rhapsodic over possible terrorist inclinations, remember, the news was that there were two or three shooters, one of whom was dead (Hasan, the single shooter, was alive and being treated at the time). That Maj. Nadil Hasan was of Jordanian, Arab, or Palestinian birth (he was born in Virginia of Palestinian immigrant parents), that he was a recent Muslim convert (he had been a practicing Muslim his whole life), that he was suffering from PTSD, or secondary PTSD from his work with returning vets in Virginia, that he was sympathetic with suicide bombers, angry at bad evaluations, upset at being deployed to Iraq, frustrated by the Army's dismissal of the harassment he got at Ft. Hood about his faith and/or desperate to get out of his upcoming deployment.
Bottom line: we didn't know enough. It was irresponsible of you to try to make suppositions when the information (including the fact that he was alive) was so sketchy.
And to focus on the one known of his name and then presuming his faith (A lot of 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants don't necessarily practice the religions of their grandparents, yet still have Middle Eastern names, and I will reiterate, in those early hours, WE DIDN'T KNOW) to then suggest jihadist and/or terrorist sympathies was to give legitimacy to all those hate-mongers like Michelle Malkin and Fox & Friends anchors Doocy and not-Doocy to once again, call into question ALL Muslims.
Don't you get it? "Terrorism" is not defined as "any violence by any Muslim anywhere at any time for any reason." If it's true that Hasan had been the victim of harassment because of his religion and that contributed to his state of mind, then those who create and foster an environment that makes it acceptable to demonize and dehumanize Muslims were right there with him, pulling the trigger. To focus on Hasan's faith as you did in those early hours was the lazy approach and avoids the deeper reasons:
(T)here’s nothing all that ground-breaking about (Hasan's shooting spree). Happens all the time, it’s just that we’re a nation of amnesiacs who forget all the unpleasantries, and refuse to learn the valuable lessons.
For starters, Fort Hood is located in Killeen, Texas -- where one of the deadliest rampage shootings in American history took place in 1991, when an unemployed ex-Navy enlistee, George Hennard Jr., crashed his pickup into a popular cafeteria, pulled out two handguns (Hasan also used two handguns), and murdered 23 people before taking his own life. The day before the massacre, Hennard was eating a hamburger in a local restaurant watching the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings and, according to the manager, “When an interview with Anita Hill came on, he just went off. He started screaming, ‘You dumb bitch! You bastards opened the door for all the women!'” [..]
But in what may seem like a strange coincidence, Maj. Hasan and Killeen are connected to another American shooting rampage. Killeen held the record for America’s worst shooting massacre until 2007, when Virginia Tech student Seung-Hui Cho shot and killed 33 fellow students. And Malik Nadal Hasan graduated from Virginia Tech in 1997. Both Hasan and Cho were bullied and harassed -- Hasan’s cousin told reporters that after 9/11, his military comrades regularly abused him, calling him “camel jockey.” But the cousin insisted that Hasan’s opposition to the war didn’t grow out of the bullying, but rather from the stories he heard while interning as a psychiatric counselor to veterans from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Hasan even hired an attorney to try to come to a settlement with the US government and leave the service, but they wouldn’t settle for a deal and instead forced him to deploy. He apparently fought it up to the day before his deployment -- and instead of going to the war, he brought the war to the US military.[..]
So Hasan, whose parents came to the US from Palestine, had plenty of personal connections to “Made in the USA” violence and massacres; and yet there’s a frantic attempt to make him out to be a crazy Muslim monster hell-bent on killing Americans. Why would he need to take inspiration just from them, when Americans already provided so many excellent examples of how to mass-murder fellow Americans?
There was another incident of a soldier opening fire on his comrades this year. Sgt. John Russell shot and killed 5 others at a mental stress clinic in Baghdad in May. Pretty sure he wasn't a Muslim, and maybe that's why so few have discussed this horrible act of violence.
When I was Managing Editor of this site, I had to sit down and decide what content was appropriate for the site. I had to think about how responsible we were being and whether a post might hurt our credibility. I admit, I didn't succeed every time. But we did succeed more than we didn't, and this site grew and was cited and linked to by other sites as well as traditional media. It bothers me to no end that just weeks after that ludicrous Balloon Boy debacle (and seriously, have none of you ever bought a mylar balloon for your child before? Anyone could see that dumb saucer wasn't powerful enough to lift a 50 pound child) that no lessons were learned about rushing to judgment.
There are some valuable and needed discussions that should be had about Maj. Hasan's actions. But Sweet Jesus, why do you have to poison the well before all facts are known?
Again, with all due respect, just STFU. Report the facts as they become known. Talk to eyewitnesses. Tamron Hall actually reached out to families at Ft. Hood via Facebook, what a great way to use social/new media. Look back at historical acts of violence at Ft. Hood (and other bases). There is a wealth of discussion that could have been had, instead of the irresponsible, non-journalistic and hate-mongering approach you took.
Shame on you,
Nicole Belle.
because it is not his post. It is Nicolle Belle's.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
I noticed . .
"Business as usual: The whitewashing of jihad by the MSM"
Michelle Mawwwkin
It's like, I believe, all Muslims living in the United States should be put into internment camps. They are a danger to our country and for the safety and security of our people, and I believe that until the War on Terror is over . .
follow my blog . . come to my appearances, watch me on TV . . worship me . .
Maybe house them with the Japanese, eh? And the Liberals, too. Better yet, let's just lock up everybody. Crime will become nonexistent and we'll be safe at last . . .
I bet grimalkin is oblivious to the fact that the largest number of Islamic people live in Singapore.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
have names like Cobra Energy Drink Warriors,
Licealiz Shampoo Hair Doctors, Purefoods Tender Juicy Giants and Barako Bull Energy Boosters . . probably her ultimate goal is to have the Yankees renamed the New York Big Macs Secret Saucers.
Are you asking for Journalistic Integrity?
With all due respect, you might as well write a letter to Santa asking him to bring you a pony.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
... it would just be basic journalism.
There's neither integrity nor journalism to be had from those sources.
Earth to all you cable news devotees: Cable news is not about news. They have cable punditry, and cable blowing smoke out their arses, and cable sensational half-truths, but no cable news, because despite the name, there is no such thing as cable news. If you want news, you have to read it somewhere; you will not find it on TV.
Exactly. This should be the shortest thread in C&L History.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Cable news is a waste of viewers' time. Go read the articles at msnbc.com and cnn.com and you can get all the facts in one to three minutes instead of watching the anchors and pundits blather.
More Americans DIE Every Month From Lack Of Health Insurance Than Died on 9-11
Yes the massacre at Fort Hood was shocking, horrible and .. bound to happen sometime ..
In the meantime:
Hoyer: Dems May Not Have 218 Votes HCR Delay Possible!
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
Steny Hoyer gave an interview? You mean he found time off from blowing Boehner?
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Sorry Nicole but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. MSM is garbage.
A-freakin'-men.
I can easily imagine the rage if the stories about getting his car keyed or being deployed to Iraq (where he didn't want to go) from Afghanistan (where he was willing to go). I'd like to believe I wouldn't shoot 30 people, but I can understand it.
It's interesting now as well that we now have our "hero" policeperson amidst stories that many of the wounded were brought down by friendly fire. Probably doesn't mean anything, but it is interesting...
shooting at the shooter...
Nice irony, nest paw?
Made exponentially worse by the ignorant fucks who assume anyone who looks Portuguese or darker is a Muslim Arab. My Indian family members get very angry when they are assumed to be Muslim or Arab or Middle Eastern or terrorist-sympathizers. I want to tell them to take it easy and try not to get so upset about the ignorant fucks, but at the same time, I don't blame them at all.
You said it all brother. It's health care we should be pounding on.
SO WHAT if a lunatic went on a rampage? It's happening again in Orlando today as I type this.
This nation is going to BLOW THE F*CK UP if we don't get jobs and income going, we need to kill NAFTA, CAFTA, ETC. We need to get back to working at home. WHY ARE WE IMPORTING WINDMILLS FOR GREEN ENERGY instead of making them here?
We need investment in the USA. We as citizens need to refuse to buy imports. PUT THE FINANCIAL HURT ON THE IMPORTERS AND THE CORPORATIONS. WTFU. WAKE THE F UP!
And CABLE TV ENTERTAINMENT IS NOT NEWS.
So if you want to learn something...
TURN OFF THE TV.
I agree with everthing you say, but I really need to listen to the ongoing coverage of what is going on in Orlando because it is just too close to home. So I will turn off the TeeVee later--like when my stomach stops roiling and lurching. ;o}
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
I agree!
I read the post, and they clearly labeled which portions were speculative.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Additionally a blog site doesn't have the sheer numbers that cable and network news gets, so their responsibility is proportionably smaller, and usually have in their statement that it reflects the opinions of the site owner, and the rest of us who might speculate are doing so as their guests.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I don't see where the speculation was labeled on the statement where "he brought the war to the US military"? He is accused at this point of being the shooter, but until the fog has lifted and more information is released, I myself will have to wait to pass judgement.
And Glenn Beck is just an entertainer.
They put the ideas out there, they are responsible for them.
The hypocrisy of those who are now rushing to be a politically correct as possible because this guy is a nutjob Muslim is amazing.
What about this guy, this guy, and this guy who killed people for religious reasons - or and these guys? Is this "trend" not enough to start speculating just as we did when the liberal church in Knoxville was shot up, or when a Hillary campaign manager was murdered?
Just a bit of integrity from my fellow liberals would be nice.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
What?
To what are you objecting?
Who is "rushing to be a politically correct as possible because this guy is a nutjob Muslim"?
Everyone claiming we need to avoid speculation about the role faith played in these murders. Few seemed to care outside of "Pissed Off Patricia" and a handful of others yesterday when C&L posters where rushing to blame the right-wing nutjobs for the murders. But now that it's a Muslim, all of a sudden C&L and it's commenters are all concerned about rushing to judgement.
Yesterday I had arguments about all the anti-right-wing hate speech coming from this site and it was pissing me off because I don't want to see my fellow liberals start acting like the tea-party crowd. Now, to see many of the same people calling out the right-wing for bringing up "terrorism" and blaming Islam feels a bit hollow. Sadly, the "speculation" in the initial C&L report on this and the reactions of many of the commenters lost the high ground on this topic and got down in the mud with the hate-talkers.
It's hypocrisy, and it's wrong.
(Side note: the moderators were awesome yesterday about clearing off he most offensive anti-right-wing hate speech).
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
No one is defending him.
The fact that he is Muslim may or may not be incidental. There aren't enough facts known about it yet, so when Malkin or Pammy Atlas go all jihadi on us, it's pretty damn racist.
As is a couple of the examples you point out, for that matter. I want you to think about this Western characterization of "honor killing." I have Muslim family members (as well as Jews, Catholics, Christians and a Buddhist, but I digress) and from what I understand about their faith (and I honor their rites and celebrations when I'm with them, just as they honor my secular version of Christmas when they're with me), there's no honor killings in Islam.
But let me ask you: what is the difference between "honor killings" and the man who shoots and kills his wife and her lover in Tennessee? Or the mother who thinks that her children are possessed by the devil and drowns them in a bathtub? Or beat up a son because he tells his parents he's gay? Or kick out a pregnant teenage daughter? To kill a loved one is a measure of mental illness. It's telling that in the US we call it an "honor killing" if it's done by a "furriner" but just "murder" if it's done by an American.
And from what I understand about Christianity, Jesus says nothing about abortion or gays. It doesn't mean they haven't become the driving force behind Christian violence in this country.
And my point isn't on the "bigger picture" - it;'s directed at my fellow C&L readers who had no problem spewing vile hate-speech yesterday at the right-wing.
Why they are afraid of speculating about things now, and not yesterday when even less was known is troubling.
---
Plus, I never said anyone was defending him. Don't make stuff up. I'm saying that people some here are hypocrites. They rail against hate-speech, yet have no trouble "speculating" about the right-wing every day. Anyone who claims we need to be wary of right-wing violence, Christian violence and fringe groups or radicals and "lone wolfs" but is afraid of saying anything bad about Muslims for fear of perpetuating a bad stereotype is difficult to take seriously.
And, he's not a "furriner" - he is an American. Just like the Muslim who killed the military recruitment officers.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
You said everyone "was rushing to be a politically correct as possible because this guy is a nutjob Muslim".
My point is that the only part people were cautioning against was the modifier "Muslim" because it may or may not have had anything to do with it.
Likewise, we didn't call Tim McVeigh a Christian terrorist. Using "Muslim" in this case, when the information was unknown played into people's bigotry. No one was defending his actions so much as they were cautioning against placing too much importance on his religion.
And I know he's not a foreigner--I wrote that above. Sheesh.
I was talking about how easily we in the US call those crimes you linked to above as Muslim "honor killings" when similar acts done by white Americans are just "murders."
Nicole,
I really don't like arguing with you since you are a great writer and C&L is my daily addiction. That said, please go back and look at the initial post on the shootings, before we knew anything about the crime. Just read what wild "speculations" were stated in the post and the ridiculous garbage that was stated in the comments.
My argument isn't with the speculation, it's the hypocrisy that people have. When I read the stuff that was being said yesterday I thought I was at worldnetdaily or some other hate-filled site. We may feel we're justified because of the actions of a Jim Adkisson and the words of Beck and Limbaugh. But the people on the right feel they're justified for the examples I've been pointing out.
I'm trying to get people to see this hypocrisy. Just as liberals were all over supporting Mumia but could care less about the death of 80 innocent Branch Davidians. Just as Bush is hated for the war in Iraq but Clinton is not held in contempt for his sanctions which killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Just as teabaggers are mocked for claiming "fascism" even though we on the left said the same things under Bush.
I'm not saying we're as bad as the right, but I'd prefer to live to a better standard than just being better than Glenn Beck. I'd like to think we can actually live be the values we preach.
Maybe your well written article should be directed at C&L's readers too. And the next time something like this happens, I hope people here don't get all excited hoping it was some right-wing lunatic so they can feel better about hating conservatives.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
I was preoccupied with working or something yesterday, so I missed any comments that were deleted. Are you saying that the blog post by Neiwert contained wild speculation? Because, if so, that is no longer here. Was that scrubbed?
Was Neiwert commenting on his own thread?
Did someone affiliated with the site speculate wildly, and if so what did he/she say?
Clearly there is a difference between what a host says on a cable news program and what a (mostly) anonymous commenter says in blog comments.
There is some debate about what Jesus said about gays. Some Biblical scholars say that the Roman centurion story in Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10, is a tale about a same-sex couple.
See also Acts 8:26-40.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
I hadn't ever seen that.
Hopefully humanity will one day learn to be humane.
I read all three references and not see the connection to homosexuality.
The first two dealt with a centurion and his servan in Copernum, and seemed to have humility as it's subject and an almost anti-military stance.
The last one dealt with a baptism of a eunuch, a castrated man, who presumably has no sex with anyone male, female, lover nor wife.
How many Christians would there be if castration was a requirement? They had enough problems with the 1st of the Great Heresies, the Circumcisers of the 1st century CE.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Great_Heresie...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
the Bible?
It is my understanding that in modern English a eunuch is a castrated man, but that was not the only application of the word in ancient times. The English word eunuch is from the Greek eune ("bed") and ekhein ("to keep"), effectively "bed keeper."
Hijra, a Hindi term traditionally translated into English as "eunuch", actually refers to what modern Westerners would call male-to-female transgender people and effeminate homosexuals.
I use the link because a friend of mine who learned read ancient Greek to understand the text without all the mistranslations says that the site is pretty accurate,in his opinion.
Which happens to be related to my issue with biblical literists. You cannot translate a translation of a translation and end up with an accurate text.
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America, and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples, promising liberty and justice for all
if he is the actual shooter. And if he is not, is he still a nutjob. I just want to wait for more information before judgement is passed.
Isn't nutjobs a prerequisite for tea-baggery?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
A Very bad entertainer!
The initial reported details of a situation, changing as more information becomes available - number of shooters, number of victims, condition of wounded - is not speculation. What makes it ridiculous is the media's instinct to get to air first with the merest glimmer of data ... not because it's right, or because of an unimpeachable source, but to be there before the other network.
Speculation as to motive and circumstances are what Nicole is decrying, and I believe the folks here at C&L were very careful about their words. We were shown a sampling of views and reports from various sources, and it was very clear that this was an unfolding story.
IMHO, I'm beginning to think a group like the RTNDA (Radio/Television News Directors' Association) needs to come up with guidelines on shooting incidents, just as they did for hostage situations (after one hostage-taker turned out to have been watching the local news).
Gosh I miss the FCC.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Really?
The fact that anyone would have to say "REPORT THE FACTS ONLY! is an indictment of our "media" across the board.
I agree - "CABLE TV ENTERTAINMENT IS NOT NEWS"
And I wonder if newspapers and other print media is news either. They are all corporate mouthpieces or we'd be seeing pictures and video of the carnage (that would end it all)
The Pentagon and WH claim they can refuse imbedded reporters from taking photographs out of respect for the privacy of the service members? As if they never heard of pixelation?
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
... is homogenous. The burden is upon the viewer to be a critical thinker and seek diverse sources.
Let's take a look at the Fort Hood shooting. Local stations report it. A national newswire like AP picks it up and stations across the country learn of it. Local stations also make arrangements with their networks and often put their own coverage on the bird.
This is not inherently bad, but even if you're searching on the web, your information take is going to be rehashes of the AP story.
The media as a whole, however, has become lax. Remember the 'liquid bomber' plot out of London? Anyone remember headlines warning how the terrorists were going to use a popular sports drink to blow up planes?
It turned out they were simply using the gorram bottle, and not the actual drink. But there was no correction, no clarification, and you could probably conduct a survey to find that most people still think Gatorade is an explosive when mixed with the right things.
He is charged with killing five of his fellow soldiers in Afghanistan a couple of months ago.
Nobody mentioned his religious affiliation. His name provided cover. And if they had, nobody (well, a few of us) would have attributed his acts to his (presumably Xian) religious faith.
We would have been faced with attacks on his religion only if he was Muslim.
IOKIYAC
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
... and the insults hurled about Tillman's (and the Tillman family's) atheism.
It's not demonizing Islam, it's demeaning anything that ain't White Christian Purity.
I thought I was the only one to say bovine excrement
Or
Bovine excreta.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
of euphemisms I employ to avoid actually using swear words in front of my kids.
...Send them all a copy of your very excellent letter, afterall it's how everyone here (C&L's) feels. That is IF you think it'd be a good idea. (whatdoiknow...)
"Terrorism" is not defined as "any violence by any Muslim anywhere at any time for any reason."
Actually, I'm pretty sure that is the definition, although we do know the reason behind it. It's because they are brown savages - it's the same as it has ever been.
and wounded were shot by people trying to shoot the shooter, according to reports I heard earlier...
If true, this would seem to be unexpectedly good evidence against the claim that people are safer when everyone is armed, nest paw?
Unitarian church in Tennessee where unarmed church-goers subdued a man with a shotgun.
i welcome my banning hypocrites
[Deleted. So would you welcome a chat from your boss about posting from work? Your IP address gives me his/her email address. Go back and read the post you posted on as 'woger' No political leaning was mentioned in OP. You accused the left "...you labeled it right wing violence, it's clear it's not,more than likely the direct opposite..." 'Hypocricy' much yourself? Sitemonitor]
Hypocritical critic, bwing out wodewick, makes the false equivocation (two sides of the same coin) between a blog post and a cable news show. By the way, are you talking about Niewart's post in which he says:
or the one in which he says:
Or this one?
Oh, wait, none of those say anything about the shooter being a right-winger. You must have the satellite feed with more stories.
They should hunt down the people who harassed him for his religion.
Listening to Hartmann this AM there were several issues and factors in regards to the shooter . He is a life long Muslim . His personal life was not happy , was a loner . Ever since 9 11 he'd taken a lot of verbal abuse and crap from his comrades . Being a military psychologist he was constantly hearing all of the horrors of the Iraq invasion and of the Afghanistan war ,not only what was happening to the American soldier but by his genetics and his religion ... what was happening to "his people". He'd tried to get a discharge but oh no , the government had an investment in him .Now being ordered to deploy , it all just over loaded his circuits . It's just sad , the whole story . There was a shooting this AM in Florida , apparently the suspect is on the run , a disgruntled former employee , his last name ? Sanchez . Here we go folks !
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
of being an "illegal."
And she can take Erika Badu back to Vietnam with her.
psychiatrist. That is what I have been led to believe by the MSM. Perhaps you have a different source?
His name wasn't Sanchez, it was Rodiguez and he is in the custody of the Orlando police dept.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
which means he was led astray by serial horror films stigmatizing kids like him.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
I work with a Jason and a Michael Meyers. I am so going to start packing heat.
Just talked to a City of Winter Park employee who worked with him before he worked for the architecture firm.
Just took over a half an hour to go less than half a mile, and I'm five miles away. The area is totally gridlocked.
Best of luck to family and friends of the victims.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
What do you want them to do? Report the FACTS???????
As an ex-army guy watching the news yesterday was an exersice in self restraint. I found myself floored by just the wholly inaccurate info that came out about even the most basics about the military. If you dont know, just say so, or ask somebody who does, an FBI profiler, who just happens to be a big media whore, isnt one of them.
Sam Harris (1967–) American author of the bestselling 2005 book The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason—the second-best book on religion on the market today. The threat the world faces, it argues, is not religious extremism—it is religion.
"No one is ever faulted in our culture for not ‘respecting’ another person's beliefs about mathematics or history.... When people make outlandish claims, without evidence, we stop listening to them—except on matters of faith."
Study the symptoms not the virus...
the msm broadcasts more gossip/heresay/guesses than actual news. if they report "news" at all
and, fwiw, this was terrorism. it has nothing to do with his name, his religion, anything--just what he did. the notion, that the msm pushes, that an act is only terrorism if it is done by extremist militant muslims against US/US allies is bunk.
... is the use of violence to affect political discourse/policy, either directly (threaten the government) or indirectly (threaten the populace, who then demand their leaders/government Do Something).
If Major Hassan went off because of being bullied, or from fears about his pending deployment, that's not really terrorism. It's fear, it's anger, it's revenge ... but it appears to have been personal, and not directed at influencing national/military policy.
that is one way to define it
i consider the acts of the beltway snipers terrorism too. but, maybe i'm wrong, i don't recall any overarching political message they were trying to push. yet, to me, that is still terrorism.
1. The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization
there are several definitions of terrorism, granted. to me, any act that terrorizes the populace is terrorism. then that terrorism can either be religious, political, or just a plain lone nut who goes off.
I'm still getting my monies worth out of this, which is where I got the reference. :)
Study the symptoms not the virus...
1. a. The totality of social relationships among human beings. b. A group of human beings broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture. c.The institutions and culture of a distinct self-perpetuating group.
2. An organization or association of persons engaged in a common profession, activity, or interest: a folklore society; a society of bird watchers.
3. a. The rich, privileged, and fashionable social class. b. The socially dominant members of a community.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
get your $$$'s worth!
If a yank kills another with a knife, they're called stabbers. And then someone has to talk more and say the one who is stabbed is dead. Not killed. Hmmm. If a yank KILLS another with gunfire they're called "shooters".
But, in reality, they are "killers". A "shooter" sounds like a bar drink. Why can't a yank call a "killer" a "killer"? Is there somekind of weird psycho-trauma connected to the yankee mind set to the word "killer" that makes a "killer" sound softer as a "shooter"? Blyme
No wonder the states are all fucked up.
...he hasn't been convicted of anything yet. Innocent until proven guilty. If he'd died, they could do that, but he survived. They could say "alleged" killer and be OK, but you're right, our media has a real problem calling a spade a spade; and that's the least of their problems.
... is appropriate and a bit of arse-covering.
If I call the suspect a killer, I'm attesting that he is, in fact, guilty of the crime. That kind of media coverage can result in change-of-venue and other legal legerdemain when the suspect goes to trial.
If, however, I call the suspect a shooter, all I'm attesting to is that he was the bloke with the gun and that people were shot.
When Matthew Shepard was murdered, the media said "killed".
The intent behind such wording is to manipulate people's thinking, vis-a-vis, the 17 words.
Let's see how many of the "serious journalists" and "experts" who jumped to conclusions about Hasan's motives will do the same for the Orlando shooter.
I fully expect *crickets chirping*
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
he is the son of disgruntled Mariel Boat people. He is angry at being given an Anglo name. He wants to return Guantanamo to Castro control.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
Listening to (alleged) former mother-in-law of him now on local TV. She's suggesting that he couldn't afford food and medicine for mental issues. Of course, this too could be a hoax...
From law enforcement sources, he has no criminal history, but his last job was at a Subway, where he's made less that $5K this year so far.
Sounds sad all around.
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
have turned us into huh?
http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/08/19/...
and i am surprised they don't see the easy news piece about fellow "news channels" not reporting news
who will be first to the trough on that one?
"piece about fellow "news channels" not reporting news"
I mentioned that to a few pals who are in the industry - about 5 years ago. . .
*sigh*
It will be a HUGE story in every country except here. . .
"I know that there are people who do not love their fellow
man, and I hate people like that! " ~ Tom Lehrer (1928 - )
... because everyone's hands are dirty, whether it's Rathergate, not recognizing shills like Jeff Gannon, putting items out of VNR's (video news releases) up as 'news,' or the whole gang fellation of the Bush Administration ('we never said imminent, nyah'). You'd only have your ears talked off about serving the public's need-to-know.
While watching CNN preempt its coverage of Jihadist military mayhem to go live in Orlando, they had the usual speculator on air saying the shooter, then at large, "proabaly has already taken his own life." They immdeiately cut to a press conference of the Mayor and Police Chief where it was announced the suspect surrendered himself to police at his mother's house.
Of course they covered the press conference in a little box in the corner so they could show live footage on the main screen of irrelevant activity happening on the ground taken from their ever present helicopter.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
.... that's not CNN"s helicopter. It's that of a local station with whom CNN has a sharing agreement.
CNN operates its own newsfeed service, CNN Newsource, whch provides material to its affiliates around the country. There was one time a major hurricane hit the Gulf Coast (back in the 1990's) and ALL of the big three networks in town had the same shot as their opening video ... and it was a shot taken from the CNN Feed.
ancestry! I should have used the implied contractual for of the possessive "their." I would like to give a shout out to my grammatical corrector, Shadowgm of the CBS network. Thanks for our sharing disagreement. Now back to whether Major Hasan's muslim faith will impact Democrats commitment to bring up the health care plan of their alleged Muslim President.
“Why would anyone with a functioning brain believe this guy?”
Some guy with an eating disorder
...with the sentiment Nicole, this is simply a waste of perfectly good blog space. Your first mistake was assuming the cable not-news outlets give one red cent about facts or reporting. You know better. The advent of cable news in this country is one of the major reasons that we are so generally fucced up on so many issues. It's not about news, it's about ratings and filling air time and presenting the opposing view no matter how nonsensical or asinine it may be; and then not calling anyone on their lies or hypocrisy.
Unless and until we can do something about them, cable news will continue to lead us down the primrose path to our own demise; without failing to get plenty of commercial sponsors while they do it.
The media is out of control. Crying "Fire!" in the movie theater on a daily basis has lead to untold misery in our country, I'm all for free speech but we need to dispel 2 myths in this country:
1. Free speech is a right, but like all "rights" it has limits. Using that right to do harm to your country intentionally or unintentionally is wrong.
2. $$$$ is not Free Speech. When a company lobbies the government against the interests of that government's own people, it's called CORRUPTION. It is not constitutional that rich people have more of a right to "free speech" than I do simply because they can hire a lobbyist while all I can do is write my congressman.
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
FOX Skews
I can't hardly stand to watch this show for exactly this reason. Tweety tends to lend his support to any wingnut willing to trash the democratic party, at least it appears that he is sympathetic to the conservative agenda. Moreover, his show tends to misreport facts far too often, and lacking fact (such as in this instance) he is willing to just make them up, or allow others to do that. It is sickening to the nth degree and makes his show a bad choice for me as I want the facts, just the facts thank you very much!
I must say...
Mon, 11/02/2009 - 09:37 — Truth_Critic
...I want them to beat Philly though, only because I'm not fond of Tweety... Chris Mathews of Hardball.
I know it's childish and vain and shallow, but hey, Tweety is 100% MSM pundit.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Van Zandt was on tv a couple of minutes ago shooting off his mouth again about some col. who he isn't naming telling him that the major had said to him he was happy when an american soldier was killed and that he had said in the past the muslims should rise up against the US. He is just fueling the fu*king fire with hear-say.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
It might just be me, but if he really did say that, what tf was he still doing in the military, and more importantly, why tf was he getting shipped overseas?
Same thing I thought. Van Zandt went on to say that the major was glad to take our money to put him through med school but when the time came to pay the US with his service, he wanted no part of fighting for the country.
Okay, who paid for the Major's education? Van Zandt didn't say how ie was "our" money that paid for medical school education.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I'm just of the opinion that I've had enough discriminatory bullsh**** from the- $ Bought-and-Paid-For $ media- for a lifetime, and I don't care who it's directed at -- if it's unfair, it's unfair regardless.
The media fails.....
LuLu
Yesterday I knew the cable news outlets would just be speculating and with no more facts than any of us could glean in a 10 second news flash.
So I thought I'd wait until today. Instead I turn on the cable news and I get rampant speculation about a different shooter in Orlando.
I'm gonna follow Howard Beale's advice and just turn off the TV.
I didn't watch any of it. I figured this will be on the news day in and day out, and nothing but pundits blathering 24 houres a day. Speculation. Snore. I'll wait for the end result.
far left loon >.<
Well said, and, hopefully, well-heeded, Nicolle!
Another excellent example of why I no longer even subscribe to cable because of the blabbering
idiots"experts" on any topic of the day.Over-the-air television signal, the internet and Crooks and Liars.
That's all one needs to keep informed on what really matters . . . .
Nice job breaking it down. The MSM, not two minutes into this breaking story were frothing at the g**dam* mouth about terrorism. When I heard the suspects name my heart sank because I knew then that the MSM (and other rabid fools) would be all over the jihad tune like flies on a pile of Beck!
Thanks for letting the fear-mongering press have their due.
Make no motto of love that worships war
As a longtime C&L Reader - and first-time commenter - I created an account just to discuss this issue.
Because I read through the comments here, [Deleted. Off topic-Sitemomontor] - I didn't see Nicole or David responding to David's own speculation yesterday.
I shared David's item in my RSS reader as soon as I saw it yesterday, with a note cringing at his own unsupported speculation. Little did I know that another C&Ler would follow up today with an absolutely correct line of criticism - but one that would not mention C&L's own offense against the art of truth-telling.
I've seen a couple of commenters try to parse David's meaning to make his speculation acceptable, but the simple fact is he was guilty of the same kind of crimes that Nicole accuses the networks of here.
He didn't know all the facts, and he speculated on what happened on the base. Period.
That he turned out to be wrong is almost completely irrelevant. If he managed to guess entirely correctly about what happened without knowing any facts, it certainly wouldn't make him a good journalist. CNN was, of course, reporting what the base spokesman said about there being more than one shooter. That turned out to be wrong. But what was the hurry in labeling the shooting a conspiracy and speculating that it could be ideological? What purpose was served by putting that theory out there while the incident was still happening?
I'd like to see Nicole specifically address what David wrote. I'd like to see her interview David about it. I'd like to hear, from David's own mouth, something that indicates that he understands why baseless speculation - whether it comes from a cable network, a blog, a newspaper, or any other source - is the antithesis of journalism. And I'd like to see C&L do better in the future.
TOS me if you will, but I'm not making personal attacks on anyone. I'm using facts to support my argument. And I'd like to keep reading C&L, knowing that its editors are holding themselves to a high standard of truthtelling.
I just re-read everything David published on Hasan.
What was it that you found so unacceptable? David reported on the information that was coming out, and as it was amended/corrected, David published new posts. You do understand that we are NOT a news site, don't you? We do not have a staff of reporters there to establish independent facts. So when we do breaking news items, we do it by conveying what is coming out on newsfeeds everywhere.
We are a political web site, and much of our content revolves not on news but the way the news itself is framed, which is the material point of my post. Do you understand the difference between C&L and news channels that posture themselves as NEWS???
BTW, saying that more than one shooter indicates a conspiracy isn't speculation, that's a fact. If there was more than one shooter (and the news at that time was that was the case), then it would indicate pre-planning on the part of more than one party, hence a conspiracy in a legal sense, not a tin foil hat sense.
My objection is not in the repeating of news information as it comes out (and I'm mature enough and experienced enough to know that it will change over time as more information is known). My objection is to the supposition of motive. Within minutes of this event occurring, all the news channels were bringing in terrorism experts. When Hasan's name became public, it went into overtime. They framed this as a Muslim soldier, without knowing whether his religion played any part in this.
David was very clear to say that speculation on motive was dangerous and it could have just as easily been one thing over another.
So what specifically (other than the conspiracy part, which I've addressed) did you see as speculation?
I was just about to say the same thing. Are we talking about a post that was removed? Are we talking about comments from morans like myself (i.e. not affiliated with the site)?
As I said above, David's speculation that "for this kind of target, it could be ideological" struck me as unnecessary. You say that your objection is to the supposition of motive; does that not apply to David's statement, as well? There was nothing inherently wrong about his theory, but it was, to me, the same kind of baseless speculation that we all hate to see coming from the networks. There's a difference between knowing many of the facts of a situation and using that information to pose a theory and throwing out theories in the opening moments of a fast-breaking crisis.
I understand that C&L is not the same as CNN. I understand that you don't have a staff of reporters. I understand that you're an opinion site. None of those things free you from an obligation to get the facts right. If you're going to condemn speculation, that's fair, and that's right. I was just asking you to consider what takes place on your own site as part of the larger picture. I was not then and am not now making the claim that a throwaway line at the end of David's post is somehow equivalent to the hours and hours of speculation offered by the average network in the wake of this incident. I was hoping to draw attention to a minor problem in the hopes that C&L, which by its very nature has much more accountability than any broadcast network, will continue to try to do better.
Look, if you are going to criticize, look at the whole quote:
First, the speculation was flanked by disclaimers on either side clearly saying that events are still developing.
Second, Neiwert's "speculations" are nothing more than definitions, i.e. multiple people = conspiracy. Targeting a military base has a higher propensity to be ideological (i.e. could be) than targeting a McDonald's or a park or something.
Neiwert was clearly stating the extent of what we knew given the facts (as we understood them).
That is just about the antithesis of the irresponsible journalism from the "professionals". Neiwert didn't guess about the alleged shooters' nationality or motivations. He advanced no theory.
The statement that "it could be ideological" was not only appropriately hedged, it expressed an obvious range of possibilities without limiting that range either to the left or the right. Could've been a lefty shrink disgruntled with the horror of war; could've been Al Qaeda.
As far as the "fact" that there was more than one shooter: it's not like DN was the source of that "fact." The logical inferences he made from that fact were hardly radical, just a natural result of bad information.
Still, as Glenzilla points out: with this kind of story, you're probably better informed if you ignore the "details" reported in the first day or two.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Fri, 11/06/2009 - 13:20 — sncreducer
______________________________________________
Tu quoques are a logical fallacy
And actually a childish form of argument.
Just because you can't comprehend nuance
Doesn't mean the nuance is not there.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I do agree TV is Opiontainment like Jon Stewert says.
I don't agree that we don't have enough information to make a informed assumtion. I think it was the American Resistence starting to bubble to the surface.
That is just my opinion, I am sorry for not thinking they are right wingers. Just another personal opinion.
http://www.youtube.com/user/July4Patriot#p/u
Look, I understand that you are angry about the inaccuracies in these reports, but there is a need to break news promptly, especially with the 24-hour news cycle. In fact, that is supposed to be the whole point behind the product. FoxNews and MSNBC have bastardized the product by introducing solid blocks of commentators and magazine shows that broadcast during primetime. In a way, they have become to news what MTV is now to music.
Still, if we want them to be able to deliver their product (breaking news available any time), then we want them to be free to commit occasional inaccuracies.
They MUST check their facts before spewing them to the public. I will not accept that it's nescessary to confuse and scare us on a daily basis with inaccurate information, just to get ratings.
It's amazing the new corporate-dictated "norms" we accept as a society, like the 24-hour vapid bullshit we call "news". The propaganda these bastards broadcast really does work doesen't it?
I don't believe in God. Teach a man to be a good citizen and you have solved the problem of life.
-Andrew Carnegie
Look, with the volume of today's meat packing facilities and the profit margins they must maintain, a certain amount of human feces will necessarily be packaged into your food-stuffs, and a certain number of children and elderly will die in sporadic outbreaks.
It's one of the prices we pay for things that we all agree are necessary and proper.
I grew up in Dearborn, MI, which has the largest population of Arab and Arab Americans in the US. Newsflash, some Arabs are Christian and they have Arabic names. I think it's wrong to assume someone's religion based on a name. One could be an atheist, a convert, etc.
Having said that, this man was troubled. There were red flags at Walter Reed. He wasn't Ft. Hood that long but his colleagues at Reed should have intervened. I guess people look the other way when there is a shortage of specialties in the service.
It's always safest to not assume, but frequently one can pick up clues to a persons religion from his/her name. Of course, our President is a good example of why not to assume - you would be led to believe he is hebrew or muslim, I think.
... Nicole demonstrates take down technique worthy of Dick The Bruiser and The Valiant Brothers combined.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
you are killing me - guess what - the conflict of this century is reason against religion - read someone, anyone, Harris, Russell, even Hitchens - quit making yourself and society responsible for these peoples psychoses.
Before you start your anti-religion jihad, you really don't know what the motivation of the shooter was. Did Bernie Madoff steal all that money because he was Jewish and had an issue with other religions?
They "hate us for our freedoms", right?
What a simplistically banal world you live in.
unless you have real facts and information, please follow Penn's advice:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PaHcZUHI00
NOBODY 2012
Nobody ever expects the Spanish Inquisition, and I am sure the victims did not expect to die.
Eyewitness accounts say Nadal screamed Allahu Akbar before he opened up, this is Muslim extremism.
You see, there is an invisible man up in the sky, and if you don't do this, and this, and this; he will throw you into a lake of fire where you will burn forever.
Oh yes I forgot, and he loves you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o
Corruption favors the wealthy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aChUwN5LBao
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
ASAP
was particularly creepy in his hot-breathed panting fantasies of terrorism.
is that unless people start turning the channel or turning off the TV when they start running with the sensationalist reporting, it'll never stop and they'll *never* STFU.
Alas.
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