You stay classy, Nader
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Nov 05, 2008 10:28amRefusing to do any of the work to build up third party infrastructure nationally, Ralph Nader has a bit of sour grapes whine, and calls Obama an "Uncle Tom".
It's really bad when Fox News is classier than a national figure like Ralph Nader. Good on Shepard Smith.
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You're making Lyndon LaRouche look better everyday, Ralphie-boy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhSYbRiYwTY
is there anything Nader said besides Uncle Tom that you diagreed with?
Hmmm?
He is and was right on the money...except for an unexcusable racial slur.
n//t
that he is right about everything else he said, but the slur, the INexcusable slur, sank the power of truth. Nader should be ashamed, but he is not or didn't seem to be in the least. The idea that the truth of his words were covered up by his lack of restraint and racist blurb does not legitimize him it merely gives legs to those that would attempt to say that the truth of his other words have no power and are not to be believed now or hereafter.
Sorry, Ralph, you are as lowly as The Fox Network hypocritically scrambling to become "fair and racially balanced" when they are not. It is very similar to what Ralph just did. They suddenly get their feathers ruffled by Ralph's idiocy and are trying to appear even handed when in reality they propagate much that stirs racism.
Ralph Nader + Fox News = Inanity...
Ralph showed himself as Uncle Creepy there... he's an arrogant man and as noted in other comments here should not have used a racial slur. I thought he had more class than that, but I've been fooled before... not for long tho'!
His time came and went 40 years ago.
It's always about him. His ego is out of control.
Screw off, Ralphie. And take your racism with you.
Oh, and thanks for 2000. We're just now getting over THAT debacle.
applying the term "Wingnut" to Nader posts.
all the people who voted for him in 2000 feel now? Hopefully they feel like schmucks.
I wouldn't know; I don't feel-up schmucks.
Don't knock it unless you've tried it. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBoOqysiLFo
Do you ever say anything that isn't a sexual innuendo? It gets old after awhile.
So do I.
in 2000, the choice was between gush and bore.
neither did a thing for me. al gore was so damn gray it was hard to imagine him as my prez.
nader made loads of sense to me in 2000. gore won MN without me.
now, back to the subject - nader ain't much of a diplomat, but his inquiry about how our new president will address the poor in our country is honorable.
the homeless rate has ballooned recently and neither candidate mentioned a peep about this tragedy.
hope won't fix this problem.
Don't partisan Dems realize that just because someone voted for Nader doesn't mean they would have voted for Gore if he were the only choice. Most would have stayed home.
Nader could have thought more carefully how that would be taken, but I do not believe him to be racist. In fact, he used the term correctly and as a judgement of ACTIONS... he also never said "obama is an uncle tom," unless I watched a different clip...
"It is commonly used to describe black people whose political views or allegiances are considered by their critics as detrimental to blacks as a group."
-wiki...
hmm... obama not coming through for the poor would obviously not affect any blacks would it?... I think obama is inteligent enough to watch that clip and understand the underlying message, which was not intended to be racist.
What an ass act. Unsafe at any speed.
Fuck you!
I cried like a little girl last night.
Obama!
Nader is wrong about the Uncle Tom part. But Nader is the right man for President.
why? because he is good at irritating the shit out of people, and proves time and again that he would be a good dictator because he has never learned the art of compromise?
Have you ever heard any candidate say "military industrial complex"
or "single payer" system? No!
He is THE progressive. As for compromise,
voting for Obama was the compromise, one that I made too.
taking action would be nicer
why do you think this asshat shows up every 4 years...then disapears into the ether inbetween
he loves the system the way it is
not sure when you foolish nader supporters will understand that
is too much like hard work.
Nader is a nutball.
then share. Otherwise, you look like Shepard Smith, FOX Tool.
The guy has been about nothing other than taking action his entire adult life.
When you spout ignorant shit like this, you are just mouthing a DLC/MSM meme. Knock it off. That's not your style, UJM
How about you educate us, Miss kitty? Since you're so knowledgable on the subject of Nader, and hell, let me throw this open to any Nader apologist: What has Ralph Nader done in the last 4 or 8 years to build a viable 3rd party? I've asked this before here and not gotten an answer, so fill me in, because i can't seem to find an answer to what should be a prtty simple question for his most devoted acolytes. Enlighten us all.
The reason that Nader shows up every four years is because the Democrats continually fail to nominate a true progressive candidate who will not, unlike Obama, invade other countries because of the bogus GWOT. "He loves the system the way it is." That is a totally inaccurate statement. If the system were actually changed, people like Nader and third party candidates and even [God forbid] socialist candidates would be allowed to participate in the nationally televised debates. Instead, those former members of the Democratic and Republican parties make sure that voices like Nader's will never be seen and heard by the American public.
Actually, I have heard Obama use the term "single payer" system. He said that is the ideal system if you're starting from scratch but we're not, and that the system has grown too complicated to revise it wholesale at this time.
As tone-deaf as Nader is, and as clumsy as his reference to Sam and Tom was, he's right about one thing -- Obama's going to subjected to a lot of violent tugging from the left, especially with a democratic house and a near-filibuster proof senate. I think a lot of people are going to be confused initially at Obama's proposed resistance to some of the more radical (and I don't mean that in a disparaging manner) policies/positions presented to him.
Frankly, if Obama wants to score big points early, he needs to advocate a federal law aimed at remedying the problems associated with voting and tallying votes.
Let him prove it. He pops up like Punxatawny Phil every few years, whining and moping about how nobody loves him, but he won't do jack shit about actually working towards solutions. He expects everybody else to do the work, but still wants to run the country. He's the proverbial dog in the manger to a T.
Yeah, maybe he should get some good friends in the corporate elite. That way they can pay for some ad time on TV. Then he could go to cocktail parties and talk to beltway journalists would would write editorials about him. Then he could run for office and do the bidding of the corporate elite buddies that paid his way into office.
Then we'd have change.
n/t
Nader never has and never will care about anything other than promoting himself. He made himself famous by writing a book that was proven to be a complete lie and has tried to latch onto any movement that might give him an ounce of legitimacy ever since.
they ain't nothing but a conspiracy by the safety industry.
I mean the gall of regulating auto safety, everybody knows that the free market should regulate itself. And if silly things like safety cages, seat belts, safety glass, ABS, and airbags get in the way of corporate profit... to hell with them. Afterall, we all know all those car crash victims were faking it, for sure they were on the dole for Nader, the little rascal!
You really want a person like that for your leader?
Kiss national relevance goodbye, Nader, you arrogant fuck.
Shepard should get an award for best supporting actor.
Like any good bully, Fox Fuck-ups know when to put on a good face, but just underneath, they're hoping left-wingers will say something like this first so they can say it without guilt the next time it comes up.
Starting in February, Fox News wont be able to go a week without calling Obama an Uncle Tom over something.
He bucking for a job with a new network or what?
Never called him that. It's the hyperbolic title of the YouTube clip on that site
And the same point can be made without dipping into the racist slur department.
"... his choice is whether he's going to the president for Americans, or for the Corporations."
It's not that hard, Ralphie-boy.
"Uncle Tom" is not a racial slur. It means to indicate someone who is a traitor. It has a racial meaning, but it is most certainly not racist.
Maybe so... but it most certainly wasn't a case of "Nader called Obama an Uncle Tom", as the summary states. This is inaccurate. It was a perfectly valid point that Nader made. C & L's summary and the YouTube title badly misrepresent what was actually said by Mr. Nader.
the last positive thing he did was in regards the unsafe at any speed
thats 40 years of just being a shit disturber
where does he go between elections? back in his hole to count the millions he earns from his investments in the same corporations that he decries as being evil
fuck him, and fuck all his mindless supporters
rip michael chrichton
He IS a shit distruber. And the shit needds serious disturbing. But punctuating his "points" with racism moves him from being the shit disturber to distrubed shit.
and I wonder if he used the Uncle Tom phrase just to guarantee some time on the airwaves. I love his politics; it's too bad his raging narcissism has knocked him completely off the rails.
But then he delivers it in a classless way. Too bad. Nader has a lot of very good points about how our political system works, but now it will be harder than ever for people to take him seriously. Yes, my kneejerk response was to be offended, too, but listen to what he is saying:
We DO need to stay on top of Sen Obama and I am sure Sen Obama would be the first to tell us to do just that.
But I am not about to take long hot showers with Sheppard Smith, either. Why, because he called Nader out for using a distasteful phrase in reference to Obama? Way to go out on a limb, Smith.
Also, I will not countenance lectures coming from Fox talking heads concerning what is and isn't offensive. They ought to put down those stones before they break something.
change?
he pops in every 4 years...by then its too late
he doesnt want real change, he just wants face time on the networks
All of his life. A lot of us and our loved ones wouldn't be here right now if it weren't for his decades of work against big corporations -- especially the big 3 automakers. We'd not have seat belts, safety glass, crumple zones and other safety engineering, with the companies dismissing deaths by saying "We're building to government standards," as if that was enough.
He's worked many times over full time his adult life -- 70-80 hours a week.
There's no need for you to disrespect everything the guy has done for all of us here, including your kids and grandkids.
Don't blame him because you aren't paying attention.
he doesnt get in the race in 2000, for no better reason then his own self agrandizement, bush never becomes prez
i gave him kudos for car safety, but once he was finished with that, what did he do?
ran around the country making speeches for millions...then invested those millions into the same corporations that he says are destroying the country
he is an evil little shit
UJM,
Sorry, but as I say below, I don't believe Nader caused The Chimp to be president.
Also, are you sure about that last point?
With the bullshit 'Spoiler' label hung on him by the DLC/DNC/MSM, it's pointless to go on with any discussion. I will point out that in 2000, hundreds of thousands registered Democrats in Florida did not turn out and vote. Gore lost his home state of Tennessee, unheard of. SCOTUS stopped the vote count. That had nothing to do with Nader. He is not a member of SCOTUS, last I checked. He wanted all of the votes counted.
And your accusations that he is enriching himself with money from corporations needs a credible link. If it were true, it would be everywhere. I call BullShit.
going to have to disagree with you on this one miss-kitty. While he has served as a gadfly and brought some issues to the forefront he always overstates his case and attributes malice where none exists. A case in point is his railing against "planned obsolescence" by the automotive industry which he promoted as a rip off by the manufacturers but is, in fact, a statutory obligation. If you make a vehicle you are obligated to supply parts and other support for a period of time (ten years in Canada) and that is what planned obsolescence really means. You have to predict future requirements and plan for them. Credit for virtually all the improvements in safety can be equally divided between the engineers who designed them and the lawyers whose lawsuits forced their adoption. Nader had very little to do with it. Finally this comment of his is typical of Nader who usually tries to demonize any opposition. Never mind the "uncle tom" comment in his view any corporate leader is an evil sub-human bent on subjugating the human race.This is manifestly untrue and does not advance such reasonable arguments as he has to make.
...and I have discussed Nader with my Green friend for years. I love his ideas, but sometimes feel conflicted about the way his presence seems to disrupt things just as we are trying to get shit done. SEEMS to. I have to point out that Nader does work on this year round, it's just that he DOESN'T get heard. In other words, my views on Nader have definitely matured and changed from reactionary to actually listening to what he is saying. Nader is a great person, in spite of this one inelegant moment.
Gah, I have lots to say on this topic, but I have to work!
One more thing:
Nader did not, despite talking head GOP talking-point-monkey Shep Smith's assertion, play spoiler. EVER. Gore won fair and square, even with Nader supposedly siphoning of some of his votes. Florida was stolen in 2000, not by Nader, but by the SCOTUS and the neocons. Never forget that.
Great day, today! Great day...
p.s. +1, miss_kitty.
you are absolutly right bonkers as useual, and nader put the point he was trying to make about how this new president will serve the american people badly, i have my doubts too, will he let hiself be controled by the corporations that useualy have all the sayso on what our government does or will he only go along with thier programs , obama started off to the left of the center then when he won the right to run as our nomination he made a sharp right turn to the center , and the centers not exceptable , its been said on here that obama only did it to play the game and thats okay but if hes not playing the game then we will have to question his views on things like iraq afganistan , trade policys and the take aways of our civil rights and the thefts of our constitution, oh and impeach bush cheny and the gang! my opinion on his trade policy is that its to little and to late!
...when I wonder: Why do I bother casting a vote?
Poor Nader. In one fell swoop he negated any positive he might have contributed with that ridiculous, derisive and offensive remark.
He's just pissed that joe the plumber got more air time than he did.
Nader managed to torch what little credibility he had left with two words. Unbelievable.
bad acting and too much make-up shep.
Ralph Nader: unsafe at any speed.
And we won't hear another word from him for four years. He emerges every four years, stirs something up and then goes back where ever he lives.
http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/you-st...
:-)
I clicked on the link and it brought me right back here. I'm high on happy today so maybe I'm missing something. If I am, I'm sorry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVjVmHNeB4k
Thanks for the scream...
Nader's really become something of a schmuck, hasn't he? I liked the guy in 2000, but he's totally irrelevant at this point.
And Shep Smith does look like a robot, but I'm glad he wouldn't let Nader's ugly comment slide by.
Have a good day.
John Cage
Poor choice of words, but I would have liked to hear Nader explain the historical view of Uncle Tom:
Uncle Tom, the title character, was initially seen as a noble long-suffering Christian slave. In more recent years, his name has become an epithet directed towards African-Americans who are accused of selling out to whites (for more on this, see the creation and popularization of stereotypes section). Stowe intended Tom to be a "noble hero"[20] and praiseworthy person. Throughout the book, far from allowing himself to be exploited, Tom stands up for his beliefs and is grudgingly admired even by his enemies.
I believe Nader was making the point that the main thing wrong in Washington now and for the last 150 years is that business interests are running this country and he is correct in that.
Obama did vote in favor of telecomm immunity, so it remains to be seen if he will stand strong for us, or give in to the corporate super powers. I really hope he will stand for us, that's why I voted for him.
Nader's choice of words notwithstanding, he makes a valid point.
Did Nader have a stroke?
Anyone notice the droop in one eye and the spasmodic eye blinks in the other? The crooked mouth? If I were Ralph I'd be totally ashamed of that comment and blame it on a stroke.
Hopefully we won't have to worry about Ralph splitting the progressive vote ever again after that display.
i realize nader is in the race but does fox need to question him on that quote....now. why bother? why give him the air time? fox knows their demographics, i believe they felt some people would appreciate
those comments. i guess it's the only way nader will be heard is with ridiculous comments.
Why would Nader agree to go on Fox in the first place?
They likely were the first (only?) network to contact him and Fox loves controversy.
It seems lately like Sheppard Smith has been remaking himself as less Foxy. Wonder if he is considering a move to another network?
Give Shep Joe Scarborough's spot and send Joe over to fox. Joe is more than ready to join the fox team.
Got that right!
I think that because the right wing supports him against the Democrats, he thinks they agree with him and in no way are using him to gain power. Its a form of self delusion. I hear it in his speeches, he campaigns against the Republicans about 5% of the time and 95% of the time he bashes the Democrats so he fits in well with FOX's fair and balenced format.
Nader did not call Obama an Uncle Tom.
He said he had to decide if he was going to be an Uncle Tom.
His choice of Rahm Emmanual as C.O.S. is an ominous answer.
not after we kept hearing that he wouldnt be running to past administrations to build a cabinet
not sure why he didnt tag one of his campaign organzers to be cos...no one has created a better command and control system then those two guys
Go Nader! The lemmings won't listen until it hits them where it hurts. Real change is something most people aren't prepared to commit to--as we've seen with the election results.
Let the marginalization of Nader, Paul, Kucinich and other agents of change and accountability continue--business as usual in Washington.
Open your eyes. Real change just happened. Don't miss it. It may not be the end goal we all want, but it is a suddenly a lot brighter in America. You can pout about not living in Utopia yet, but you can't tell me the world just did not change and in a very profound way.
Wake up!
Obama said it himself last night, the change hasn't happened yet, only the opportunity for change.
The biggest change that needs to happen is getting religion and big corporations out of our government. That is the bottom line of Naders (ill chosen) words.
I agree there is much to be done. Several lifetimes worth of work if we are honest with ourselves, but Obama was not pretending change did not happen last night (it did). He was pointing to the work yet to be done.
to take time x for people to dial back the over-the-top rhetoric. Nader's a perfect example. It's time to abort campaign mode and hearken to those better angels.
.
Really? Change just happened? Really?
You mean my phones are no longer being warrantlessly wiretapped?
You mean America no longer provides for it's President the ability to order TORTURE?
You mean the President no longer reserves the prerogative to commit acts of war crimes?
You mean the Administration is placing limits on the DOD budget?
You mean Americans all have Health CARE?
You mean the Rule of Law is now the normal and the will of men is subordinate?
You mean the fat cats of the financial system are being sent to jail for bagging mom and pop?
Really?
... Just checking, 'cause in my America, all of that is still just a dream.
.
Ralph Nader has never had a handle on racial issues in America. He has never said a word about race that i can remember until now. He saved his first comment until now and says that? He just marginalized himself.
"Ralph Nader has a bit of sour grapes whine..."
Isn't that what wine is made from, sour grapes?
Depends on the whine...
*rimshot*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAqDi1p3cCM
I can't stand this asshole, not for what he said about Obama, just because this chump does NOTHING for any third party in the off season. Has he ever tried to groom a candidate for the House or Senate? What has he done except try to run for president every four years as if he should win. Screw Nader - if he was a serious candidate he would do something...anything in the off season. The only reason he was on TV today was because he was a candidate from the Bullshit party (or whatever party he is with this week).
you build a 3rd party from the ground up...same as you do an economy
create your third party of the people and get people into state orgs, state houses, school boards....then you go onto the house and senate and then the presidency
he never had any intention of winning anything...not in 2000, not now
he just likes to irritate the shit out of people
How many automobile manufacturers tout safety as a reason to buy their car? How many lives have airbags saved? How much more is the consumer safer and more informed thanks to the likes of Ralph Nader, etc, etc, etc ???
This is an "asshole" to you?
You sound like McCain claiming that haveing been a POW gives him a lifetime pass.
He made a verbal gaffe, which we all have made, and you're ready to overlook the good he's done and throw him under the bus for that? Forget his runs for the presidency for a moment and ask yourself where we would be as consumers without consumer advocates such as Ralph Nader, PARTICULARLY RALPH NADER?
I love Ralph and what he stands for, and I really believe he has the country's interests and its citizens at heart, but what stupidity, if not arrogance, to call Obama an "Uncle Tom". It's private versus public discourse at play here, and Ralph not being black cannot utilize terms like that. He is not in the position to call a black person that not being black himself. I know what he meant, but he went about illustrating it the wrong way.
And I appreciate his efforts.
However...since 2000, he has been a thorn in the side of the elections process, if he were really serious, he'd had a better grassroots organization, and would not throw his hat into the ring at the 11th hour.
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What Nader should have said was Fascist appeaser, instead?
When Government controlls business, you get Communism.
When Government is controlled by business, you get Fascism.
RFK Jr.
Military Industrial Complex...
Pay or die health INSURANCE...
Bailouts for the irresponsibly rich...
Corporate protections for Constitutional violations...
The rhetorical question presented to Shepard Smith was basically, who will Obama go to bat for?
Did Nader run again this time? I get confused between him and Alan Keyes.
Yep, he did.
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DId you vote?
Then you should have read your ballot and seen his name.
There's a forest out there when you choose to see past the log in your eye.
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Are we sure Ralph was on the ballot in every state?
I think.
on my ballot, when I coloured in the bubble next to his name. I think he got on in 45 states.
Only in 45 states.
Patricia, have to ask; will you be changing your handle any time soon, like maybe inauguration day?
Inquiring minds want to know...
Funny you should ask that because I did consider it. But mostly I'm known as POP so I think I'll just leave it for now. I chose that name when my friend was sent to Iraq at the beginning of the invasion. I'm still pissed about that.
Hopefully your friend came home alive and well.
This racist turd shouldn't be allowed air time ever again.
Given Obama's vote in favor of amnesty for telcos that broke the law, I'd have to say that though offensive, its a good question.
Ralph did not call Obama an Uncle Tom. Pay attention to what he said. He said it's up to Obama to do the right thing and not be an Uncle Tom. And he is right. We need to remember Obama is not Jesus Christ. He is a political figure. And we the people need to hold his feet to the fire. Ralph could have said Hitler, does that mean he is insulting Jews or Germans? He could have said white trash. Does that mean he was insulting poor white people. Yes Obama is black, so all the names and comparisons that come with that apply. If we are to look past race when voting, then we should look past race when speaking and making comparisons using analogies. Ralph Nader is the least racist person most of you know, and a bigger fighter for poor people, blacks, whites, hispanics, all Americans than any political figure. You should remember that Nicole Belle, or I stop being a loyal fan of your site. alanS.
It doesn't matter what Nader meant by using the phrase "Uncle Tom", the fact is that it's an insensitive term and he could've come up with a better way of wording his argument. It seems like he used it purely to line up with the "Uncle Sam" bit, which is a weak excuse.
Have a good day.
John Cage
OF COURSE what he meant matters. You'd rather let Faux interpret his words for you?
You sound like one of those deluded, confused post-modernists like Roland Barthes who announced (?) unilaterally that "the author is dead". That is, no one, not even the author/speaker who constructs a message and makes it public, is allowed to explain/defend/expand on the original message. Put another way, the receiver of the message is, however, allowed to attribute whatever calim/point/message that the receiver wants. Well, let me help with this particular linguistic stance: "You're moronic." Any problem with that message?
+1
You hear that Nicole Belle!!! your in danger of loseing a loyal fan if you ever post anything that he disagrees with!! so be careful!! what a putz.
could also have called on Obama not to be a bank robber or a pedophile or drug-dealer too. In fact there are endless things he could have called upon Obama not to be. And actually what he mostly fights for is media attention.
...but that kind of decades-old terminology about a black politician does his platform no favors. Nader can only get his message across by proxy in the form of a younger generational body, male or female, so he might want to look into that. Deserved or not, his message is mostly lost on the demographic that just voted in Obama. If Nader's serious about his ideas on a national platform, he needs to do some serious reexamining of where this country is at right now.
He didn't call him an Uncle Tom. He said Obama had a choice in how he could lead -- either as a great leader or as a sellout.
The timing of said comment was in poor taste, but the sentiment certainly is one to consider. Despite Fox and McCain's framing of Obama -- he wasn't the "most liberal" senator, and actually does seem to have hints of what might be considered corporate leanings. I'm hoping that was just trying to play to the masses, but as others have mentioned, he did mention Rahm as a Chief of Staff candidate (or is that official pick?) Either way, that's not exactly reassuring.
Seriously, I'm seeing the sort of backlash here against Nader that I saw from conservatives against Obama when he used the "lipstick on a pig" comment. Obama wasn't calling Palin a pig much in the same way Nader wasn't calling Obama an Uncle Tom. (Well... it's a little bit more damning in this case, but certainly his statement was more cautionary than accusatory.)
I think that most are kind of taking Nicole's lead and responding only to the Uncle Tom phrase rather than hearing Nader's point, which is a good one.
Yes, he is. Without Nader, certain recounts wouldn't have been necessary in 2000 and certain states in various years wouldn't have gone to the wrong candidate. His encouragement of voting for him as a protest vote in states that are too close for protest votes to be conscionable (whether the given election is a landslide in favor of the major party candidate his candidacy screws up or not) makes him a parasite.
I live in central Missouri. Add the Nader votes to Obama's totals and Obama wins Missouri this year. Add Bob Barr's votes to McCain's totals and Obama still wins the state.
Nader is a parasite and I devoutly hope that this is his last gasp on the national and media stages.
-- Rob
PS: For McCain voters, I have a slight bit of sympathy: Not that it would have changed the outcome of the election, but McCain would have won North Carolina without Bob Barr in the race. But then again, I like Bob Barr's stance on the First Amendment.
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So you're saying an open Democracy is a bad thing?
Freedom of choice is idealism that deserves to be quashed?
Third party is antithetical to American Principles?
Anything other than red/blue is a spoiler to the duopoly?
You do know that the current landscape is set AGAINST third party in America, why is that?
You do know that the Political landscape requires thresholds from third party candidates based on previous Federal election outcomes even before third party candidates can gain a National platform, MSM recognition and election funding?
You do know that a lot of people desire third party candidates, if not for shere competition in the horse race, yet many of these people buy into the "spoiler" meme and refuse to support third party candidates because it's not vogue?
Sorry, the spoiler is YOU!
Spoil REAL Democracy that thrives on diversity.
Spoil REAL Democracy by propping up a duplicitous duopoly designed to leave the People with less and the Corporations more.
The SPOILER, is you!
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but I don't deny them the right to run.
You have destroyed your own credibility by saying Nader is bad but Barr is OK.
You are anti democratic. Small 'd'.
As for Nader in Florida, I never hear complaint of Buchanan's candidacy, that hundreds of thousands of names were purged from the rolls, that minorities in the thousands were physically prevented from voting, that Gore made a serious mistake in not demanding that the entire state be recounted or
that after the recount much later it was demonstrated the Gore had actually won after all.
I don't hear any of that, all I hear are feeble reiterations of the same misplaced complaint about Nader.
just letting you know
He ran as their candidate!
What has nader actually done since the days of the Corvaire? Other than feed his ego and get in the way of a win.
If you or anyone you know was saved by an air bag in their car, blame Nader. He was fighting for them in the 60's. And yes, we have had the technology that long, car manufacturers fought it tooth and nail because it cost too much. Certainly more than the value of a human life!
and constant communications with the political leaders about conditions that needed attention.
Google Ralph Nader and spend an afternoon reviewing his vast writings.
He predicted the financial meltdown way in advance of almost anyone else.
One of his ten points regarding the 'Bailout' was that no corporation that received federal money could continue lobbying.
No sort of restriction is to be found in the $700 billion
bailoutheist.We the people as in we the government, give the money to the corporations, they can use it to lobby with.
In other words, buy the politicians.
It is corrupt cycle.
Ralf Nader is a CIA funded douchebag. Why doesn't he run for representative or senator. He is a scumbag who benefits the powers that be by running for president, yet never fighting for an election process that allows us to rank our top candidates in a way such as Instant Runoff Voting or IRV would allow.
Fuck Ralfie Nader.
for sticking up for your right to be cared for by the big money corporate interests that would build the cheapest unsafest shit on the face of the earth, if Ralph (How uncharacteristically disrespectful of you, O. I expected more from you -- like the correct name spelling) hadn't been there with his staff to FORCE THE GOVERNMENT TO FORCE THE CORPORATIONS to build to a particular standard of safety.
He's fought and advocated for IRV, and a viable 3rd party but gets shut down at every turn.
Shame. On. You. for going off half cocked, with nothing to back up your specious claims.
point out statistical data and the number of lawsuits attributed to the swing-arm suspension system used on the Corvair and control issues that occurred in extreme situations. He did not however, object to the earlier and continued use of the same system on Volkswagens, Mercedes-Benz,Porsches and a number of British vehicles. Apparently only American manufacturers were actually diabolically evil. This particular suspension system represents an evolutionary step towards the true independent suspension system which as far as control goes, is the ultimate in vehicle safety. What Nader did right was fight the suppression of data that GM was not anxious to have in the public forums because of the number of lawsuits then in progress.
Just what exactly have you done with your life that has contributed to the public good?? Nader is a classic social democrat with a strong humanist grounding. Addtionally, he is forthright, honest and can't be intimidated. He also is very well educated and, I would gather, that those with whom he interacts can both listen to what he says and understand his point.
Nader is incorruptible.
I seem to recall that the big auto companies -- or one of them -- sometime in the '70s attempted a "sting operation" on Nader that had to do with hookers and cheap motels. This was, of course, after his book, "Unsafe at any speed", hit the newstands. My guess, is that even if he were approached by such denizens of the night, he would decline. At least, that's my guess.
trying to bring him down. Trying to uncover the tiniest speck of dirt that they could blow up into a dust storm. They never did it.
They never could do it.
Ralph Nader will go down in history as one of the great Americans.
And among the many ridiculous trivial things that are thrown at him is the business about an ego.
Sadly, the only person that could successfully mount an independent bid for president would be a billionaire.
Talk then about an ego.
Ross Peroit got 19 million votes after leading the polls, quitting and then coming back. He might actually have won without the missteps and without the ego. But then without the ego would he have run in the first place?
Can't you just be the seat belt guy? Come on? Can't we just remember you as an awesome consumer advocate and not a jackass?
Nader is making a strong point and we here that consider ourselves intellectuals should think about his words before attacking. He says that Obama has a choice, be an Uncle Tom for the Corporations or be an Uncle Sam for the people. He didn't call Obama an Uncle Tom any more than he called him Uncle Sam.
Uh, I don't think so. Ralph did NOT call Obama an Uncle Tom. This kind of misrepresentation of what people say is not what I would expect from this site. If there's anyone on the planet who has class, it's Ralph Nader. And Ralph's career over? That woman and her idiot sidekicks obviously know nothing about the man. What he said is correct. Furthermore, Obama and McCain have a lot more in common than many people are willing to acknowledge. Do some in-depth research and you'll see. Ralph is a man of integrity, and I'm not holding my breath that our new leadership will display much of it. Let's see what they do about regulating the finance industry, NAFTA, Iran, health care, etc. My prediction is that we won't see any significant changes. To quote Ralph's father from a book called The Seventeen Traditions, "What did you learn today? Did you learn how to believe or did you learn how to think?"
C'mon C&L, Nader deserves much credit for his historical work as being THE premier consumer advocate of our nation. He has a place in history.
Nader deserves credit for taking on the political system and trying to build a viable 3rd party.
Yes his efforts, particularly in politics, have fallen short and more recently he has become somewhat bitter and marginal, but I won't criticize him for that because he tried harder than 99.9% of Americans to make real, postitive change for everybody.
And guess what? The essence of what Nader is saying is spot on. The corporatocracy and the military industrial complex, both are more entrenched than ever in our lives and government - there is little to no chance that Obama will do anything about it. I hope I am wrong, but I am not naive. Remember Telecom Amnesty? Or maybe that Obama's largest corporate contributor was Goldman Sachs is nothing to worry about.
Nader choice of words was an attempt at impact. He missed marked. Worse was his timing. It is sad that he has become so bitter that he cannot at least, for a moment, celebrate the monumental event that has occurred. Yes, yes, yes. But Nader's no racist.
All that said, I disagree that C&L feels this is important enough to make a big deal about it. The egregious event was not, by any means, Nader's poor choice of words or timing. The egregious event was Fox "News'" feigned outrage. Fox "News" - corporatocracy's Uncle Tom?
You know, this is my life. Every second of every day of my life, it is my choice what I want to do with my precious time here on earth. It's hard for me to waste even one second of that time watching and listening to anything that anyone at Fox "News", has to say. But I did just now. I regret it. But done is done.
C'mon C&L. Nader saying Uncle Tom is not where the battle is. Don't get sucked into the side shows. Please.
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So, did Nader call Obama an Uncle Tom?
Or did Shepard infer this?
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... don't be so sensitive. The Fox commentator seems so disturbed... how predictable. Someone earlier had it right, "If we are to look past race when voting, then we should look past race when speaking and making comparisons using analogies." Nader is a true leader of the people against corporate rule and to say this man is racist becuase he used a historically correct reference that "only black people can use", leans on false logic. Nader's actions have always spoken louder than his words and if you think he is racist, than you haven't been paying attention to his actions... or his words.
is not news, it is manipulation.
You are being manipulated, congratulations, to nearly a person you have fallen for it.
What he said is that Obama has the choice of being 'Uncle Sam for the people of this country, or Uncle Tom for the giant corporations.'
I live in a minority district, there are usurious 'Rent To Own' outfits every half a mile, usurious pay check advance outfits nearly as often and a plethora of other conditions that the majority population would never tolerate.
People in my community live with it because they have no choice.
I may have missed it but I didn't hear anyone except Ralph Nader in this cycle talk about these kinds of injustices and the solutions that are needed.
I think it is unfortunate that he says things that are too easily misunderstood by too many people and misused by the manipulative media, when the last thing on this earth is that Ralph Nader is a racist.
I keep saying that race is not a scientific term, but it IN THIS COUNTRY IT IS A SOCIAL TERM.
As for Obama, he has already been co-opted by the Corporations.
FISA, Wall Street Investment and the Military Industrial Complex.
How do you think he got in there. Those are the most powerful people on earth, do you imagine that your supposed democracy has real meaning when confronting them.
Maybe he can do something with health care, that would be nice, but the corporations are going to be there. So far what I hear is guaranteed profits for health insurance companies.
We will see, let me be amazed. I am not terribly optimistic.
... Will NOT be like what he's offering Americans.
While Obama has paid for health care, as in "Cheney care", Obama's offering to reduce health INSURANCE, without consideration of the folks that can't afford ANY insurance at all.
IT'S CALLED PAY OR DIE!!!
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To put it another way, what if it had gone down like this:
NADER "We wish him well. His choice now is to be the greatest hero ever or an asshole."
SHEPHERD SMITH "I can't believe you just called him an asshole."
EDIT: Nice points, but I'm optimistic that Obama has not sold out to the Military Industrial complex and lobbyists. Perhaps thrown them a bone, but perhaps that was as a means to an end. (At least I hope so).
...and if he had used the word "asshole" I wouldn't have posted on it.
The use of the question mark does not absolve Nader of perpetuating the meme. It's classic Fox News styling: Is Obama A Secret Muslim? Then they throw up their hands innocently and say "we didn't say he was a secret Muslim, we're just asking the question!"
Nader is saying that this guy either does what I think is important or he's a betrayer to his own race. He specifically chose the phrase "Uncle Tom" to parallel "Uncle Sam". Smith gave him an out to use a different, non-racially charged epithet and he chose not to. He stood by his Uncle Tom.
Would he have used the same phrase had McCain won the election? If Clinton had won the nomination? I don't think so and therein the problem lies.
He has to own it.
Don't get me wrong. I like Nader. I wish there were viable third parties in this country. I belong to a third party. I wish Nader would focus his non-election year time on that. But if we're going to call out Tony Snow for using "tar baby" (and accurately and non-racially, I might add), then we have to be able to call out our own for their trespasses as well.
Well ralphie certainly gave this thread some higher mileage.
will do the trick..
The only person in this video who talked about anything important was Nader. Everybody else just attacked him. It is amazing to see the media savvy C&L readership (and, of course, Ms. Belle) fall for this crap.
We aren't ALL buying it.
I've missed saying this so far. Shepard Smith is a compleat and utter tool.
Yes I do! Goodbye Ralphy.
WTF??? Nader said that? What a schmuck.
I have ALWAYS respected Ralph Nader through it all...
but this is just inexcusable. I was always under the impression
that BLACK people decide who is an "uncle tom", not Nader.
He decided nothing. Watch again.
get back to us, would ya? We'll accept abject apologies from the likes of you. Everyone makes mistakes.
Here's partial transcript:
Marbotty a few posts above has it right:
that only black people can be assholes. This is what you seem to be suggesting and as a longtime poster and convicted asshole myself I would like to assure you that the false equivalency between the epithets uncle tom and asshole is exactly that: false.
"that only black people can be assholes" Only in your post I see.
I believe that is a racial epithet and making a false comparison to the word asshole by way of exonerating Mr Nader inevitably leads to the ironical conclusion I just suggested. If you have to be black to be called an Uncle Tom and that is equivalent to being called an asshole then don't you have to be black to be an asshole. I am not black but have been an asshole many times in my life. No, asshole isn't a racial epithet but Uncle Tom is.
Please.
Don't let the facts get in the way of my preconceptions.
Repeating what I wrote above
The use of the question mark does not absolve Nader of perpetuating the meme. It's classic Fox News styling: Is Obama A Secret Muslim? Then they throw up their hands innocently and say "we didn't say he was a secret Muslim, we're just asking the question!"
Nader is saying that this guy either does what I think is important or he's a betrayer to his own race. He specifically chose the phrase "Uncle Tom" to parallel "Uncle Sam". Smith gave him an out to use a different, non-racially charged epithet and he chose not to. He stood by his Uncle Tom.
Would he have used the same phrase had McCain won the election? If Clinton had won the nomination? I don't think so and therein the problem lies.
He has to own it.
Don't get me wrong. I like Nader. I wish there were viable third parties in this country. I belong to a third party. I wish Nader would focus his non-election year time on that. But if we're going to call out Tony Snow for using "tar baby" (and accurately and non-racially, I might add), then we have to be able to call out our own for their trespasses as well.
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