20/20: You're Too Young And Too Dumb To Vote
By Steve Hynd Friday Oct 10, 2008 5:30am
The Show: ABC's 20/20 Friday 10th October. The message: young people are too dumb to vote and should stay home instead. That's the thrust of a segment by John Stossel, self-proclaimed "libertarian" and regular contributor to the hard-right's fanzine, Commentary.
Watch it here.
The folks at Future Majority are understandably ticked, calling the segment an attack on the very idea of American democracy.
There is a lot that is wrong with this piece. Yes, there are many uninformed voters, but that category is not limited to young people, who are unfortunately the main target of this piece. Anyone who has ever watched Jay Leno could tell you that many Americans are uninformed about current events. Unfortunately, some see that as an excuse to rob people of their constitutional rights, and Stossel and ABC are happy to play along.
But all is not as it appears in this report. In talking with HeadCount, the group featured in the piece, it's clear that Stossel and 20/20 were not interested in giving the young people they interviewed a fair shake. They had a narrative to their story and stuck by it - facts be damned. More than that, they worked -um, creatively - to make sure their point of view dominated the piece.
According to Head Count, Stossel's team cherry-picked responses for their piece, giving the impression that respondents were far less knowledgeable than they were. "Far more ... were knowledgeable than implied by the report" and:
Many interviewees were knowledgeable about some issues, but less so when it came to other issues. The young voter responses included in the report were cherry-picked by Stossel and ABC producers to highlight only the incorrect answers.
Indeed, the show's one producer got into an argument with one young voter when the producer tried to say that the length of single term for a congressional representative was four years. The "young and dumb" voter had the correct answer of two years.
Stossel, in the segment, also interviews a fellow "libertarian", Bryan Caplan, who courted sensationalist fame with his book "The Myth of The Rational Voter". HeadCount also say that Stossel misrepresented their own work, not showing the educational work they do alongisde their voter registration drives. But then again, he's no stranger to creative editing to make people apparently support his own narrative.
Michael Connery at Future Majority is right when he says that voters may not always be able to identify Joe Biden or Ted Stevens on sight - but they do know their own lives: the ups and downs of medical costs, travel costs, food costs, their own sense of morality. That's all you need to be a participant in democracy.
Democracy is for all of us, not just a select few. As a nation, we eliminated the idea of literacy tests decades ago, and rightly so. Kudos to HeadCount for pushing back on this argument to the extent that was possible within the piece, and shame on Stossel and ABC for enabling it. Young voters have faced a hostile media for decades, always pining about youth apathy. Now, on the cusp of a record breaking turnout, for a major media outlet to question the validity of those votes on such flimsy grounds, in opposition our constitutional rights, is the height of irresponsibility. Dare I say it, it's unamerican.
If you would like to express your displeasure about this piece to ABC, send a polite but firm email to the producer, Andrew Sullivan, outlining your concerns: Andrew.G.Sullivan [at] abc [dot] com
It's probably significant that the party John Stossel is most likely to support (given his prolific Commentary output) has the least support among young voters. Encouraging young voters to stay home, because they're allegedly too dumb to vote, is tantamount to a booster for the GOP. ABC should be held to task for such a shameless piece of partisan "reporting".
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The kids will vote their own interests, just like the rest of us. With friends who may be dying on foreign shores, and idealism that may serve to elect Obama.
Unfortunately, I think boosh's social security "reform" was popular with them, since retirement was so far away, and they saw SS as a bank account that they should personally dip into, to play the stock market.
)O(
Stossel is a punk. How he stays on the air is beyond me.
Stossel stays on the air for the same reason Glenn Beck stays on the air. He serves the interests of his corporate masters well.
They are not going to give up their Bush tax cuts without a fight.
...or an arm, or their lives in hellholes selected for them by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their neocon daddies.
Stossel, I'm betting, has no problem with that.
The good news is that the young voters Stossel is saying should stay home have far better things to do with their life than watch 20/20, let alone take action cues from the show.
20/20? Isn't that that show with all those really old people on it? And isn't it going to be broadcast on a Friday night? I have a feeling most of the young people targeted in this story will never see it.
I am one of those "really old people" and haven't watched 20/20 for years. Can't tolerate Stossel and the conservative program he promotes. I also have better things to do than watch 20/20. God Bless our young people.
Really old people? I think that is 60 Minutes.
20/20 is just a Stossel Fun Hour.
That was my first impression.... Friday night.... young people are on dates and at the movies not at home watching teh TV.
And if they do happen to see it... it would tick 'em off and make sure they vote...
So sad. I used to like John Stossel. I wonder what happened to him?
It is an old Republican trick to make people to stay at home. How many of the "uninformed" vote for Republicans? Quite a bit. If a person is happy working for a union, then they should never vote for a Republican, but they do because of other issues, like abortion or gay marriage. It does not matter to them they will wind up getting less.
The most uninformed, willfully ignorant, intellectually dishonest, magical thinking, incurious, intellectually and spiritually lazy, self-deluded voters I personally know of are, to a person, Republicans. I do not think I have ever seen a single group of people more eager to be lied to, especially if the lies come in the form of validation of their most base and ignoble instincts. With a few miniscule exceptions, it is the stock in trade of Big Media to present those lies, to pander to those who yearn to indulge their shameful inclinations, to manipulate that group. To Stossel, his masters, the The RNC and all those who are working to disenfranchise voters and game elections, the scariest thing in the world to them is a voter who is informed and can't be manipulated by lies. The young must be a real boogly-monster to them.
Good.
Re-thug-lics -- the party of immature, voraciously rapacious, despotic, doughy white, cowardly, angry, bigots, racists, perverts, xenophobes, pedophiles, murderers, war criminals, homophobes, misogynists, self-hating women, fetid wombs and consummate chronic liars.
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do you even know what those words mean or did you have to look them up in the dictionary because it is the biggest exagerration bordering on lie since "i did not have sexual relations with that woman."
But... but.... CLINTON!!
Wow! Did you intend to announce to everyone here that you don't know what those words mean? Did you know how stupid you would make yourself look?
This makes my other point here - that you find stupid voters throughout the entire voting demographic.
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i actually do know what all those words mean i was curious if he used a dictionary or not.
Uh huh.
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And we all know how many hundreds of thousands died because of that blowjob. Hundreds of thousands of innocent sperm were murdered!
So much more heinous ...........than say .............
"WMD's in Iraq" ?
hello again MCMetal. good point. but i think we have already argued about this and that i do not support the premise of why we went into iraq. so again get back to logical arguments.
Like the logic of bringing up a blowjob ?
What is wrong with you ?
Do you even comprehend a scant bit , the mindlessness and the amazing hypocrisy and ignorance in every one of your posts ?
Apparently not , I guess.........
Let me see here; you attempted to diss trittydi on her adjectives used for describing the Republican Party.
Because you were "just curious."
When you got called for bullshit, you "logically" brought up Bill Clinton's penis.
When somebody brought up WMDs as a counter to the CLENIS, you whined that it wasn't a "logical argument."
Somebody call the Waaambulance.
I'll be skipping chrissy's posts; he's just too "logical" for me...
There's always a candidate ready for that job.
Why don't all of us uninformed kids go let 20/20 know how much we appreciate this point of view?
20/20 Contact page: http://abcnews.go.com/Site/page?id=3271346&ca...
Thanks for the link. They just got a nastygram from someone who opposes literacy tests, poll taxes, and other idiotic ideas that discourage citizens from participating in their democracy.
If they're as dumb as Stossel thinks they are, he should be worried. They'll all be going into the News biz and he may have a lot of competition.
http://www.wilytrax.com
This is unconscionable. Luckily - I believe any effort to roll back the voting age would be doomed to failure. Isn't that the point here?
If they want a real "litmus" test. Create one - for everyone. Let's see how the bigoted demographic fairs. You know - the re-Thuglic's BASE? They'd come out dumber than doorknobs.
If you want only "informed" or "smart" voters -- you have to take the entire electorate into consideration.
Leave the kids the FUCK alone.
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you know i dont see a lot of intelligent comments made on this website. when i use logic to make a point and ask simple questions i never get an answer to the question and usually get very hateful reply's. why do you all feel so threatened by a moderate conservative that uses logic to prove you wrong every single time i get on this website. and if you feel your party is ready to lead the country, and you represent the party because of your beliefs how am i to feel about expressing my opinions if obama were to win. i tell ya what not good, i wouldn't be surprised if his first action were to dissolve and remove from washington the gop. in which case he will probably have a riotous country and damn near civil war on his hands. but this is the guy that should lead us. obama, in my opinion, is the single biggest threat to american values and freedoms ever.
Hilarious - Now the Republicans are threatening us with civil war if the majority of voters don't elect their candidate. I guess this is the strategy they are now employing, as evidenced by their "Two-Minute Hate" rallies. Nothing like uniting the country in times of trouble!
i am not republican. lets get that straight. and nowhere on the obama media have i seen any rally where they have said lets cut off his head and kill the terrorist. if there were it would be all over the news like lindsey lohan's last arrest. so when you can show me proof and prove they are not obama plants then we can talk. as for uniting the country. obama has just as much role in splitting it as mccain. at least mccain doesnt want to take us socialist and then communist and then into non-existence like obama will.
Have certifiable proof of your unsubstantiated claim that Obama will take the US into socialism and then communism ...............
Then why to you do nothing but mouth their talking points?
Okay - so we take you at your word that you're not a re-Thuglic. Then let us help you. You're listening to the wrong people - Or at the very least - you should be adding something to the mix. Think about it.
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Chris wrote:
i am not republican. lets get that straight.
But you are unable to find the shift key, indicating that you are a either a dumbass or missing fingers or a fan of e.e.cummings. As a dumbass you deserve derision, missing fingers you deserve compassion, as a fan of e.e. cummings you deserve to be dragged across a parking lot of broken glass by a herd of little cat feet.
and nowhere on the obama media have i seen any rally where they have said lets cut off his head and kill the terrorist.
Cut off WHOSE head? Could you be more specific?
if there were it would be all over the news like lindsey lohan's last arrest.
That's Lindsay to you, dullard, and I don't see what she has to do with anything.
so when you can show me proof and prove they are not obama plants then we can talk. as for uniting the country. obama has just as much role in splitting it as mccain. at least mccain doesnt want to take us socialist and then communist and then into non-existence like obama will.
OK, you stupid little troll, kindly show me EXACTLY where Obama plans to "take us socialist and then communist". Supply the URL and point out to us the facts? Can't do it, can you? Why? BECAUSE YOU'RE A LYING PIECE OF CRAP TROLL. Now go away.
Maybe let's talk about Stossel's UNPATRIOTIC SEGMENT about how young people should probably not go to vote, because they're all too stupid anyway, and they'd vote without knowing anything.
So why does John Stossel hate America?
. . . when you learn to use punctuation and paragraph breaks. Some capitalization would be helpful too.
You help make my point that intelligence doesn't necessarily come with age.
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What, specifically, values and freedoms are being threatened by Obama? Please cite your sources. It is one thing to make a statement. It is another matter to cite your non-partisan sources.
Thank-you in advance.
my own opinion formulated from listening to obama's speeches and debates. please site sources that prove lets say bush is satan? you cant. but i can tell you this more and more moderates are calling into the right winged talk shows and saying the same things i am. hell i was saying this before sean hannity was. so do i have definite proof no. do i have what obama says. yes. course i really shouldnt believe what he says, all politicians lie dont they?
Upon beating She-Yawn Insanity , who came to the same conclusion ?
Please enlighten us with a list of those who find Insanity credible on ANY LEVEL...........
Perhaps the Pope thought so . . .
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MKY/i...
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Er...Chris....It's beyond the power of the President to ban another political party. Believe me...given the power I would have done it!
pulling the stuffing out of his strawman like that. For all of his mewling about not being a GOP'er, he's got the litany of ditto-head talking points nailed. Even his assertion that he continually dominates in debate in this forum proves his delusional qualities.
The fantastical premise he proposes to justify his "Is this the guy we want running the country?" meme-parrotting just proves that reality isn't in his diet. So while I pity these unenlightened folk, I'm also begining to fear them a wee bit, because they're coming un-hinged.
"i wouldn't be surprised if his first action were to dissolve and remove from washington the gop"
Asinine statements like that are not using "logic to make a point".
If you have a point, make it. If you want to sling insults and ridiculous rhetoric, go visit Michelle Malkin.
PS The shift key is your friend.
to the two above commenters. no the president doesn't have the power, yet. and i tell you what if that were too happen i would probably march on dc demanding he step down from office because i do not believe in a socialist economy and i damn sure dont believe in a communist government. and McE as far as hurling insults one of your brethren told me to buy a can of gasoline, pour it on myself and light a match, for giving the reasons why i think the bailout should happen even though i dont like it. btw obama gave the same defense of it in the last debate. so if you are going to get onto someone about hurling insults talk to your brethren
ps independent thinking is your friend as well. but it just goes to show that you cant compete with my ideas, logic and common sense so you have to pick on whether i use the shift key. are you sure ur qualified to vote if your that petty?
punctuation is ALSO your friend.
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Independent thinking is your friend. No shit, genius, try taking your own advice by not listening to narrow minded, paranoid propagandists and furthermore, get some help for your arrogance and superiority complex.
If all else fails, go ahead and be a dupe and slave to the Politboro. You'll get what you deserve.
You had an opportunity to take the high road when you first commented on this thread. trittydi described Republicans as, among other things, child molesters and murders. At the moment, something like 43% of the electorate plans to vote for Senator McCain. trittydi's comment is therefore clearly and obviously ridiculous.
However, instead of just point that out, you immediately resorted to personal attacks "do you even know what thoese words mean" and then ended your first comment with a partisan anti-Clinton reference. What the hell did you expect would happen next?
Starting a comment with an insult and GOP red meat and then whining when your comment is not appreciated is hipocrisy "my friend".
properly nor spell, yet he thinks we should decipher his fiction-based rants. Why do you abuse English? Do you hate America that much? Stossel might have been pointing his finger at you, no information voter.
>>`ps independent thinking is your friend as well. but it just goes to show that you cant compete with my ideas, logic and common sense so you have to pick on whether i use the shift key. are you sure ur qualified to vote if your that petty?<<
"UR" That's a city in what is now Iraq.
Oh, and you have no logic. Obama is hardly a socialist.
And the only "qualification" a US Citizen has to vote is 1) age and 2) citizen of the US. Sowwiez.
Why does John Stossel hate America?
You claim logic runs your comments and then make silly playground 'predictions'. Please stay so we can have a good morning laugh to start the day.
If you are a Republican and really care about this country, then you need to recognize that your party has placed us in a very dangerous place both economically and spiritually. The last eight years has shown me that conservatism does not serve this country. I have never been more proud to be a LIBERAL because conservative IMO has shown that under the present administration, they have committed treasonous acts against us as a nation and we definitely need a change. If you believe in the Constitution, then you will stop the hate-mongering that has taken the campaign because your candidate has run out of options and is bringing attention to himself questioning his judgement and placing doubt on his ability to lead. You have painted a scenerio that under a Obama presidency, the country will suffer but we are suffering now under the Republican banner. It is puzzling that anyone would vote Republican given what has happen on their watch. John McCain does not want to talk about the economy which is a mistake on his part and has elected to run a smear campaign against Obama. Instead of listening to Palin and others' account of what really happened when Obama went to Bill Ayers house and the subsequent contact by Obama. Obama and Ayers was on a board that includedthe Annebergs who are Republicans and who I know are aware of Mr. Ayers colorful past. Does this mean that they have bad judgement too. You are an informed citizen need to do your homework and find out the truth for yourself and you will come away knowing that your party is not giving the Republican base the truth.
Stossel is concealing the truth by cherry-picking his interviews. What a dunce. Does anyone really watch his reports anymore? I don't. As for the young person who correctly argued that U.S. Representatives serve terms of two years with a producer who had the terms wrong, I am LOL. And just when is Stossel going to do a similar report on what the Joe Six Packs of the world know about politics? He won't have to go far. The nearest corner bar will do. Then we will see what sort of voter the GOP is pinning its hopes on.
I completely agree with Stossel's main point. The idea of voting just to be voting is a misguided one. A vote is a powerful tool and should be used responsibly. It's the uninformed voter that gives the first name on the ballot an advantage, or inflates the votes for the candidate with the more "American" sounding name. It's also the uninformed voter that dumbs down the entire election process.
People should not be encouraged to just vote, but to become informed and then vote.
Any youth voter who isn't really engaged politically isn't going to vote anyway. They find they're "too busy" -- or they "forget". I know this from talking to my kids friends. They don't even register for god's sake.
But if they're engaged politically - as my kids were at that age - then they're paying attention to the issues and they vote because they care. They wouldn't dream of "not voting" - as is true with - unfortunately - MOST - of the people they know.
I think a truly critical look would find that their demographic is nearly as well informed as the U.S. population as a whole.
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People should not be encouraged to just vote, but to become informed and then vote.---> all liberals should follow the advice in this statement
The US would have been far better off if the Republican voters had stayed home in 2000 - but now somebody has to clean up their Godawful mess.
uh-huh. so clinton's lack of action on terrorism would have gone away, the effects of his downsizing the sec would have gone away. no i dont think so. lets put it like this, stuff that happens the first year of a presidency should be blamed on the last president. take 9-11, you blame it on bush, but i say they didnt plan, train and implement it eight months or even ten months. they did most of that under clinton. furthermore, if gore had been president i think that he would have been more concerned with saving the polar bears than dealing with terrorism, saying that a couple of cruise missiles will be fine, not dealing with the problem. bush's two biggest mistakes:
1. he hired all of his dad's cronies
2. the intelligence community fed him information he wanted to see due to his pressuring or his cabinets pressuring. either way the intelligence he got and based his case for going into iraq was flawed and he bought into it.
all the other stuff he gets blamed with because it happened during his tenure but if you look at the root causes they go way back and are usually tied to democrats in some way.
The Dems are responsible for Iraq , Katrina , illegal/warrantless wiretapping/spying on fellow Americans , outing an undercover CIA officer , no-bid contracts , the continuation of Ronnie Retard's "Trickle Down Your Leg" economic sham theory amongst a whole host of other sorry episodes ?
Knock off your "I'm not a Republican" crap ; no one tries to fob off every ounce of blame onto the opposition party unless they back the other one loyally ...........
What?? Bush made MISTAKES??? Not one, but two??
I can't subscribe to this notion - after all, he was selected by GOD. Doesn't that mean he is infallible, like the Pope?
But the poster is right - we can't blle Bush for anything that happened during the first eight years of his Presidency, never mind the FIRST year. Neither can we hold Republicans responsible for what happened during the twenty years they controlled Congress. That would be just unfair.
Of course, 9/11 was Clinton's fault - after all, he ignored Richard Clarke when the latter warned him about al qaeda, and refused to pay attention the PDB entitled "bin Laden Dtermined to Strike in the US"... oh, wait a minute, that was Bush.
Anyway, this financial meltdown would never have happened if Clinton had just kept it in his pants.
I just can't wait to take my razor-sharp understanding of reality to the polling booth in November!
Chris, you're not planning to vote, are you? We wouldn't want you to justify Stossel's point.
>>stuff that happens the first year of a presidency should be blamed on the last president. take 9-11, you blame it on bush, but i say they didnt plan, train and implement it eight months or even ten months.<<
I'm sorry, that's nonsense.
Anyone who has 10 MONTHS TO PREPARE FOR AN ATTACK THEY KNOW IS COMING, and DOES NOT PREPARE.. and is instead "surprised" by such an attack... well, there are only two possibilities at that point.
1) Incompetent
2) Complicity
#1 is bad enough.
The most informed people I know are very Liberal. Very, very Liberal thanks to Bush and Company. There are very few uninformed Liberals because Rove successfully made the word liberal into something to be embarrassed about.
The MISinformed tend to believe that Senator Obama is a Muslim (and if he were, that would be the worst thing possible). They believe that the Republican party is the party of fiscal responsibility, when almost all facts point to the more wasteful party. They believe that Obama will raise their taxes (when most do not earn more than $250,000). They believe that Bush was perfectly within his rights and spoke to God before he illegally invaded a country. They believe that the world is 6,000 years old, understand nothing about AGW let alone most sciences, despise the "Liberal" institutions of higher learning, think Darwin has been disproven and "Intelligent" Design is something to be taught alongside evolution...
Sorry to take so many "they" phrases from the likes of an O'Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh and Rove, but I do believe that there is a very small percentage of Conservatives who try to be truly informed about the issues. Most are voting for politicians who will only make their lives worse.
Most of the informed Conservatives will vote with their pocketbook when they are wealthy. Understood. The rest are totally misinformed and duped in my opinion.
first of all i am not rich, by no means of the imagination am i rich. so when you say i vote with my pocketbook you are wrong about me. no obama is not a muslim and i argue with people that say he is. and no the republican party has become a spending party with the war in iraq and now this bailout plan. look at my above comment about the invasion of iraq. and i believe that the whole world only 6000 years old is bs and scientifically disproven. intelligent design is an interesting theological study but evolution is still king in my books. and here is my biggest point of this post: when obama punishes the rich for being rich he stifles the american dream which in turn stagnates our economy even further because there is no motivation to better yourself financially, they is no desire to create the next computer system. taxing the rich has a negative impact on our economy. i personally think we should have a fair tax like ron paul said. so tell me, i am misinformed and duped? i just about agreed with you on everything but i still think obama is dangerous. so now we have eliminated the hes a retarded republican blowhard maybe we can start a conversation.
Ronnie Retard - $200 billion plus DEFICIT
Shrub the 1st - %300 billion plus DEFICIT
Chimpy the Wonder Monkey - $500 billion plus (and climbing) DEFICIT
B Clinton - $200 billion plus SURPLUS
Trickle Down Your Leg economics is ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT ; any questions ?
>>i believe that the whole world only 6000 years old is bs and scientifically disproven.<<
Well, I'm glad to hear it. Except that anyone who was even remotely intelligent wouldn't even HAVE to come to that conclusion. The very NOTION of a 6,000 year old Earth is not just "bs", it's LAUGHABLE. It's a FAIRYTALE. By how you wrote "I believe", it seems to indicate that you actually considered the view of a 6,000 year old Earth at one point...
The most miss and uninformed globs of crap on the planet ........
Are you letting Re-Thuglics off the hook because you know it's a lost cause?
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who need to be informed. There's no possibility that there are some conservatives needing more information as well?
Quick Chris, better throw in an allegation about Whitewater in your next comment.
Give me a break. If Republicans had done their homework when they voted for Bush, we would not be in this mess. Oliver Stone's movie really says it all when you see how dumb this president really is. Letting Cheney and others ruin this country is a result of the Republican base being uninformed when they went to the voting booth. The question of judgement was not taken into account when voting for this presidency. On the question of young not being informed about the issues, let me tell you what my son's friends are saying about why they are going to vote Democratic.
1. They don't want to be used for the express purpose of fighting in the military for illegal wars since Bush lied to this country.
2. They don't want to have this huge debt hanging over their heads when they enter society as paying taxpayers.
3. They don't want their Constitutional rights minimized as demonstrated by the Bush Administration's quest to delete their rights under the Constitution with these illegal signing statements.
4. They don't want to grow up in a world where Americans are seen as tyrants and opportunists and they want our image restored on the world stage.
In a nutshell they want to take BACK the country that Bush has decimated and run in the ground with his agenda of the NEW WORLD ORDER. You would be surprised if you knew that they did not buy the reason why we invaded Iraq and who was responsible for 9-11. I will tell you that they believe the culprit lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue because there is evidence out there that challenges what the 9-11 Commission's findings were. I will tell you that they don't believe it was Osama Bin Laden. So to say that they are not informed does not characterize the real facts.
The writing is on the wall. The demographics of the US are changing: by mid-century (at the latest), whites will be in the minority.
The right wing base is dying off and getting backed into a corner by the realities of global economics and diversity.
The only way they can maintain any relevancy politically is by vote suppression.
They know they can't appeal to young people with ideas, so they plan to shut them out.
BINGO!
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and obama will shut us all out with his socialism/communism. again obama and his staunch supporters are in my opinion the greatest threat America has ever seen and the media is failing to expose him as what he is, another corrupt democrat.
Chris, where have you been for the last eight years? Do you really think that anyone can come close to the Republicans when it comes to corruption and croneyism? Have you compeltely forgotten Enron, Katrina, no-bid contracts, torture, and trumped-up pretexts for war? Not to mention the financial meltdown which the Bush Administration has bequeathed to the next President? If voters with no clue stayed home, the Republicans would NEVER win an election.
How many does that make ? Twelve ?
There are double that number in the GOP having breakfast in the White House right at this very moment , you GOP tool.................
Obama is not & never has been a communist. He is a supporter of the market anarchy system that has brought the world economy to a grinding halt & raped the world for the sole purpose of concentrating wealth into the hands of a small ruling class of capitalists. He is a corrupt democrat like McCain is a corrupt republican playing a corrupting game with the future of the world. Get your Marx on: http://www.marxist.com/wall-street-socialism-...
and his redistribution of wealth is not socialism or marxism. well tell me what it is then. o wait you cant because that is exactly what it is. no use denying it anymore.
Collecting less from those who have and make less is not REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH ; it isn't as if those living in poverty are going to be suddenly "rewarded" with half a CEO's salary.
But , it's funny how you have no problem with those already fabulously rich , being unfairly and unnecessarily rewarded by the government with tax breaks.
Perhaps you haven't noticed, but the trend since Reagan has been to redistribute the wealth UP from you and me ('cause you say you're not rich) to the corporate fascists. This current financial crisis has mainly been staged to continue that process as quickly as possible, so Cheney, Bush and the rest of their neo-con buddies and CEO friends can suck as much out of the rest of us as they can before the sail off to Dubai.
Look around you kid - the country is - literally - falling apart - in every sector as well as our infrastructure. Are you so well informed because - like Palin - you read "it all"?
You do know this is a thread about uninformed voters, don't you?
Re-Thuglics have been running the country for 20 of the past 28 years. You can deny it to yourself - but the reality is there. Re-Thuglic policies have failed catastrophically. Look it up.
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....trittydi, go easy on chris. It's obvious how he follows you around on this thread that he has a crush on you.
no i like hard political debate, but with someone that wont spew party talking points at me. if someone can get away from that they can hit me as hard as they like.
As a Fat Bastard Limpballs , She-Yawn Insanity and Glen Speck listener ; are you under the impression that you could find 3 more partisan , ignorant , stupid and more full of shit losers than that trio ?
I wish you luck on that grand search ................
and yes its all republicans fault. i challenge you too look at all the sources of this financial mess and decide who is to carry most of the blame. and my point in banging my head against this wall is too show you all that you listen to party talking points instead of thinking for yourselfs. what i am saying is not some off the wall stuff. my opinion about obama is based on what he himself said, how can you get any closer to a source. as for republicans controlling it 20 out of 28 years that is a true and undeniable fact, there has been a republican president for that amount of time, doesnt mean the gop had control. do you think bush has control of the government right now? did bush have control back when he was president? hell did clinton have control when he was president? the answer is no because the congress went to the other party. so again nice try but it doesnt stand up.
Check it out ~~
http://www.armchairsubversive.org/
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Stossel should stick to interviewing pro wrestlers. That would be much more entertaining!
I loved that interview too. I wish Stossel would interview me--I do Thai boxing.
I completely agree with
Fri, 10/10/2008 - 05:49 — Bill Norton (not verified)
I completely agree with Stossel's main point. The idea of voting just to be voting is a misguided one. A vote is a powerful tool and should be used responsibly. It's the uninformed voter that gives the first name on the ballot an advantage, or inflates the votes for the candidate with the more "American" sounding name. It's also the uninformed voter that dumbs down the entire election process.
People should not be encouraged to just vote, but to become informed and then vote.
______________________________________________________________________
That's true regardless of age.
Additionally, informing the public on the issues is part of Stossel's job, but that's too hard, so he'll simply denounce.
)O(
Do those jackasses really think that telling a group they are too stupid to vote will actually make them not want to vote? The mind reels.
Hey! You gonna vote?
No.
Why not?
That guy on the TV said I'm too stupid to vote.
That was... ugh. Just disgusting. Is that what 20/20 has become as a TV show? Advocating that people should /not/ vote?
You know who's at fault? You are! You wanks who are the producers and anchors of 20/20. People aren't informed enough to vote because you guys can't do your jobs! Your journalists! You people are the ones who should be ashamed.
Just be glad your jobs aren't up for a vote. You wouldn't have McCain's chance in Michigan of getting elected.
yes the media isnt doing its job and its benefiting obama. for example, a lack of investigation into his relationship with ayers, his relationship with ACORN, and his relationship with Freddie and Fannie. if the media were doing their jobs these stories would be fully investigated and published without spin so the american people could decide. rush limbaugh and sean hannity are right when they say the proffession of journalism is dead, they have lost their spine and their balls and the american people are going to suffer because of it
Being such paragons of virtue and the ultimate in the field of journalism ?
They're to journalism what Chimpy is to great public speaking......
Palin "pals around" with some extremists who hate America. They hate it so much that they wish to form their own government. Who does she pal around with? Her husband, of course (who has been paling around with other women, doncha know?)
So why is it that when Obama meets a man during a Republican fundraiser, he has to be identified with this person's past as well? Isn't it enough that Obama denounced Ayres past?
When did Palin denounce her husband? I must have missed it. Oh yes... Palin was actually part of that movement, and spoke at their events.
Up for a proper vetting of Palin Chris?
sure, but neither me nor you have the ability to do that. look the aip is a crazy political party whose founder hated the american government. but as far as i know they never set any bombs. ayers did and was unrepentent. and no obama didnt denounce them he said they happened when he was 8. but given all of obama's relationships shouldn't the american people be getting a proper vetting of him? o wait the media wants obama elected. so stop exagerrating something and lets get down to brass tax. you elect the president not the vice president and among those two obama is the worse man for the job by far.
What the hell has McDepends done in almost a 3 decade career in the Senate , outside of staying in that position of power ?
That is all Johnny Boy is ; a survivor .
And an ambitious , self-serving , self-aggrandizing lying sack of shit...........Nothing else.
The founder of AIP died when the plastic explosives he was trying to buy blew up, so he never had a chance to bomb anything except himself. And he loved Alaska so much that he was buried in Canada.
... stepping outside your Fox-Box. You don't just DRINK the Kool-Aid buddy - you mainline it.
A lifelong ignorant voter in the making.
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Just ignore him, he probably gets paid for this crap so he can buy a Moon Pie and a Mountain Dew to make it through the day on. I bet the poor devil lives in North Georgia!
I guess they don't have any "shift" keys in NG.
But they have boatloads of Kool-Aid.
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rush limbaugh and sean hannity are right...
you can stop there. You have proven that you have no capacity for critical thought and need go no further.
I don't think that the young voters can do any worse than the morons that voted for Bush, or for that matter, the 26% who still support him.
The fact that the majority of young voters are supporting Obama couldn't have anything to do with this, could it?
Snark!
http://www.spike.com/video/john-stossel-slapp...
"I think it's fake!"
that was actually fun to watch. It didn't look fake.
Maybe they should do a piece on all the elderly and ignorant voters that vote based on one issue, such as abortion or gay marriage? This has to be one of the most ridiculous pieces that ABC can do. Essentially they have cherry picked the dumbest answers to make their agenda fit with in the show. And to tell young voters to stay home and not vote, lest they ruin this country, is unprofessional! Perhaps ABC is supportive of the McCain campaign? It would seem like it, since they effectively want to throw out a large voting bloc for Obama, based on a few silly answers from a few silly people.
By the way, I am one of these young voters, who is VERY well informed about the issues, and judging from some of the comments left already on ABC's site about the piece, those who claim to older and wiser are NOT informed about the issues.
you claim to be very well informed about the issues. ok, lets start an honest, logical and calm dialouge. first question, who is to blame for this financial crisis?
btw im 23 and moderate-conservative and most of the people here can't deal with logic and dont listen to argument (i am not trying to change your opinion but i hope that you acknowledge when your point has been arguably proven wrong and i promise to do the same). i hope we can have that honest argument and show the older and/or more extreme persons on this blog that there are intelligent young people supporting both sides of the isle.
You may very well be retarded ; please seek out a mental physician and get yourself diagnosed ...........
I guarantee that someone who is 23 and purports to be a "moderate-conservative" is someone who was a)home schooled b)had religion foisted upon them c)has parent(s) that are blindly loyal GOP backers d) all of the above.
That is uncalled for. This person wanted an honest debate about something, and you have to use ad-hominem's against him, which seems to be a common thing on these boards.
Do you realize who the twit is who you're foolishly claiming "wants an honest debate" ?
Those looking for intelligent discourse do not write 3 or so separate posts , claiming all others here are mentally inferior to his/her superior intellect that has never been proven as such , and simply based upon others backing a different political ideology .
You really should resist the urge to post your naive' foolishness until you are capable of determining who you're addressing or being addressed by , chucklehead.............
You are either a "moderate" or a "conservative", not both in the world of politics. At any rate, if you are a moderate or conservative Republican, you do NOT want honest debate. You want to throw your shit out their and hope it sticks. As a moderate Democrat, I am no longer interested in hearing what ANY Republican has to say. I've heard enough for a lifetime. The Republican ticket and the straight jacket express is out of gas. So please, if you want to stick up for your fellow Repugnican tool - do it somewhere else, like say, the Rush Limpdick or Sean Insanity arena.
how about e) none of the above. good try though. use character assassination in hopes i will just shut up. not gonna work though. i have my fair share of problems with the gop. but my personal feeling is that between obama and mccain mccain is the lesser of two evils. my basis for this can be found above
You are none of the things I listed above ?
Your parents are Dems/Liberals ?
Yeah , that's real believable .........
Kid , you are perhaps one of the most ignorant and least intelligent creatures ever to possess 2 feet ; you are nowhere near as logical and intelligent as you laughably claim and view yourself to be.
All you do is post negatives about Obama ; and that is all.
You never post anything positive at all about McDepends (which kind of makes sense , seeing as how he really doesn't possess much positive traits , anyway) , and it is compounded by the biggest negative you try to use in describing Barack , which is an unsubstantiated claim plucked from your crazy head that he will lead us into socialism , followed closely by communism.
You are bereft of all facts and logic
There is no one person or group to place blame on as far as the economy is concerned. We can point fingers at Republicans and Democrats, and they share equal blame. We can say CEOs did it. Or we can claim that the people who couldn't pay their mortgages are to blame. Or we can responsible and realize that everything in this world is cyclical. Financial gains and busts come and go. Sometimes a party in office may help accelerate it either way. The point is that we need to realize that this is another part of the cycle of the economy. We really can't expect it to grow forever, nor on the flip side will it plummet forever.
Twenty-eight years of Reaganomics have bankrupted the economy. Nearly three decades of stealing from the middle class and the poor to give to the rich have done us in.
Quick - blame the poor! Harass ACORN!
you should take a look into the community reinvestment act of 1977. and are you saying that clinton continued Reagenomics. interesting.
LOL!!
They REEK of desperation.
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You're very "young."
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I like the fact that you point out Stossel is one of those "I'm a libertarian" folks. I am meeting more and more of them these days. At first I took them at their word, but then when I listened to what they were saying and did a little research, I discovered that about 85% of what they were saying was the same crap Rush Limbaugh was saying that week. So I realized, they are simply Republicans who are embarassed to admit it. It takes a really, really bad president to turn his supporters into "closet Republicans" (and in the middle of North Texas, no less).
So next time you hear someone say "I am basically a libertarian", rest assured they will be voting for McCain/Palin in the privacy of that little booth. Let's just hope a lot of them are too disgusted to vote this time around.
they don't really believe in government. Ok that's not true, but it's no less true than Stossel's nonsense above.
Stossel knows that unless the "game" (and good God I wish people would stop calling politics a game because it deals with real lives and things - it's not Super Mario Brothers or Football even) is rigged, the Libertarian wet dream of an absolute free market is dead forever.
Look John, we got closer to Laissez Faire capitalism than we've been in a very, VERY long time under the Bush administration. It started falling apart, not because of the government, but because of greed - plain and simple. Adam Smith and Karl Marx both had sound theories of economic policies that were polar opposites of one another. There's only 1 problem with them both - they run on the premise that all people are moral. Those of us here in the real world realize this, which is why a mixed market system where private enterprises are kept in check by public institutions is a necessity.
Why is this guy allowed air time anyway? I mean really, at least get a less whiney Libertarian voice out there if you want a Libertarian voice out there.
good point. except when you look at who downsized the sec, the business oversight office, it was clinton. so wouldn't it be clinton that moved us toward a laize faire capitalist system more so than bush? you know, i find it amazing how you can ignore facts and listen to party bulletins on everything. the dems have got you brainwashed.
Ahhhhhhhhh - the Clenis rears it's ugly head. So to speak.
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I mean, 8 years since he was in office and these tools are still fantasizing about Clinton's mighty member.
Right. Just stay home and leave governance to your betters.
Well, we've seen what our betters have managed to do in eight years:
- Destroy our Constitutional rights
- Lay the groundwork for a fascist state by altering posse comitatus, establishing a private militia, and creating 'camps' for 'emergencies'. (Funny how those camps didn't get used for Hurricane Ike, so they must be for something else.)
- Start two wars and insist 'six more months' is a valid strategy. If you're in last place, six more months ain't putting you into the World Series.
- Lay the groundwork for the economy to go into the toilet.
But, you know, the world is just too complex for your little liberal brains. John Stossel knows. He's never met a fact he didn't stretch to fit his own theories.
wow, brainwashed. Constitutional rights have not been destroyed. the closest they got were americans that were fighting with the taliban being detained in gitmo. however, the constitution does say habeas corpus can be suspended "in cases of Rebellion or the invasion of public safety may require it" (section 9 part 2 The Constitution). personally, someone fighting for a country that sponsors terrorists that just attacked our country should be considered in a state of rebellion or invasion of public safety. so that point is pretty much destroyed. second, it isnt a facist state, if anything it would be a theological state that bush moved us toward. so go do some research on the definition of fascism and see if it really applies. and btw a theological country can be just as bad as a facist or communist country. really he only started one war that he shouldn't have. i think that everyone agrees we should have invaded afghanistan in order to get bin laden and i have come to believe that bush was fed fraudulent information on which he built a case for iraq because he wanted to finish his dad's work. as for the six months thing ask the tampa rays. lastly, the groundwork for the economy going in the toilet goes back to 1977 with the signing of the Community reinvestment act signed by jimmy carter, expanded and empowered by bill clinton and unopposed by democrats who were lining their pockets with money from fannie and freddie, including but not limited to obama and dodd. so its seems, sir, that the issues facing are too big for your brain and you are just spewing the talking points your party gave you.
Enlighten us all with your dizzying intellect.
How was the Constitution threatened by those who wanted the Geneva Peace Treaty followed , which is an international treaty , and therefore part of US law ?
That Dems/liberals/progressives believe in the rule of law is somehow a threat to the Constitution ?
one of the major constitutional concerns about gitmo was the suspension of habeas corpus, and i am pretty sure you were on here yelling about that. well the suspension was constitutional. i wasnt talking about the international treaties i was responding to constitutional threats. stay on topic you are wandering into the realms of those who shouldnt vote.
Please
Do not try and lecture me , you sorry little pissant.
BTW dipshit
The above IS NOT subject to suspension , jackass ; get off that high horse of yours , twit , before I kick you off it...........
PS
Make sure you see that everything I posted is indeed about our CONSTITUTION...........Stupid ass.
"... bush was fed fraudulent information ..."
and --
"... the groundwork for the economy going in the toilet goes back to 1977 with the signing of the Community reinvestment act signed by jimmy carter, expanded and empowered by bill clinton ..."
GOP talking points straight from the bobble-head's mouth.
This my friends is an "informed" voter.
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It's a little annoying that the CRA becomes the scapegoat for every republican come an economic crisis. There's plenty of reference material on how the CRA wasn't to blame for this entire mess. The word "greed" comes to mind.
Nothing is as black and white as we'd like to make it. It took a lot of people to make the economy fail catastrophically. We can't blame McCain or Obama directly any more than we can blame poor people directly for doing this. Baseless name calling isn't going to get us any further.
On the other hand, the posse comitatus concern is a perfectly valid one. As is the sitting president expanding the concept of a unitary executive... Almost every constitutional scholar agrees that a unitary executive was *not* the purpose of the vaunted "Founding Fathers". I think we can put a pretty good case forward that Bush Jr has done a bit more constitutional damage than previous presidents.
Also, saying "closest they got were americans that were fighting with the taliban being detained in gitmo" is definitely forgetting that we've grabbed completely unrelated people from non-war zones to be imprisoned with no trial, no lawyers, etc. I agree that some of the discussion here tends towards the overzealous hatred of Republicans and their actions, but you can't completely discount what President Bush has been doing in terms of stretching the power of the presidency in previously undiscovered territory.
For the rest of the people here -- don't throw names, don't overgeneralize. Look things up, otherwise liberals will be tarred with the idea that we're all underinformed name-calling zealots.
I think that many liberals and leftists are just so tired of the seemingly endless Republican assault on democracy that we've become angry. I am infuriated with these people.
Maybe it's time to act as angry as we feel.
After all, look where the high road has gotten us...
WTF Stossel? Trying to disenfranchise young voters on natl. teevee?
Asshole!
Okay - I think what Stossel is really after here is diminishing the actual number of likely voters as a long-term goal. I mean - how many voters can one party "purge" for god's sake? Give 'em a break!!
The likelihood that - if they start to engage politically when they're young - they'll stay engaged politically and become life-long voters - increases.
AND they DON'T care about the gays - They DON'T care about race. They DON'T care about religion.
This is what the Re-Thuglics are afraid of.
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ABC = American Bullshit Corporation
I've always suspected many libertarians have a touch of Nazi in their heart.
This may just prove it.
Oh come on, stossel is about as much in the pocket of mccain and his bitch as tucker (aren't you glad he is essentially "gone"?)carlson.
Isn't what he is doing here illegal?
there is some crazy stuff going on these days. given all the stories out there that deserve attention that get ignored and given that jon stossel gets to make up his own fantasy. it's enough to drive a person mad. yesterday i watched cnn march to the tune of mccain's talking points. when you step outside of msnbc primetime, its scary.
Once Peter Jennings passed, ABC installed Chuckie Gibson and elevated Stossel to be their Neo-con stooges.
The ViewMaster made life hell for Rosie once she started givng her "view".
These people still cut a check weekly for Bimbo Hasselbeck to spew her nonsense.
Barbara Walters should be ashamed she's associated with this.
Case -n- point: Debra Roberts filmed her journey thru cancer and chemo. She talked how losing her hair was traumatic as a woman on TV. She wanted to show how it was an episode with Rosie on GMA that gave her the courage to take her wig off and be free of the shame.
But ABC didn't want Rosie shown in that light, so, it was cut out.
Young people need free flow of news. ABC offers FOX-lite and skews everything to their Neo-Con agenda, shame on them. They need to take off their wig and expose their truth.
The point is that we all have a right to vote.
The Constitution does not ask that voters exercise that right or any right intelligently.
The idea that certain portions of the electorate are not mentally up to the task of voting smacks of post-civil war voting practices that tried to limit former slaves. What's even more galling is that there are just as many stupid people on the right as on the left yet this douche bag doesn't seem to have a problem with them. If anything the younger a person the more chance they have to educate themselves.
One only need turn to YouTube to see the idiotic claims that Gramp's supporters make about Obama. By Stossel's own test, they also should be barred from voting. Anyone who thinks Obama is a terrorist or Muslim is therefor unfit to vote. Anyone who still thinks there was a link between 9-11 and Iraq is unfit to vote. Anyone who does not believe human activity contributes to global warming is unfit to vote.
Bravo.
This is exactly the point. The founding fathers understood that a participatory electorate has the potential to become an informed one. The only exclusions should be in instances where an individual has forfeited certain benefits of society (i.e. serving a prison term) or has been duly certified as incapable of understanding the basics due to mental incapacity.
This is why our meddling in Iraq has led to nothing but grief. Democracy is more than an election and a sprinkling of magic democracy dust.
oh and anyone you cant think for themselves, is unfit to vote and anyone who supports a die hard socialist, is unfit to vote. o im sorry i was just completing your train of thought for you
Seeing as how you're just a GOP leg humping sycophant , who posts nothing more than right-wing talking head rhetoric and absolute bullshit..............
. . . it's a fine example of an "informed" voter.
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I think you and the others who've been posting on this thread have stumbled upon a good idea. What do you say we have an intelligence test for the candidates? Let's put Obama and McCain back on that set in Missouri, give them buzzers and ask them questions about politics, foreign relations, the Constitution - very specific questions. Then we'll tally up the points and the winner gets to be President. That's a good way to figure out who is unfit > no?
. . . they've tried everything else.
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Unfortunately, the song I was looking for hasn't been posted on YouTube, so I hope this'll do ya.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rNfZxgkH7k
)O(
You have to not beat up stossel. Many many years ago he was interviewing one on the "BIG"guys from WWF in the hall way and said some thinf to the guy and "HE" slaped stossel up side his head, I think it rang stossels bell, but the next slap knocked stossel to the ground. when stossel got up "HE" ran like a little "BITCH". This is an election, mcnut,and the tupperware bimbo want it to be about RACE, not the issues.If you want to read about the life of mcnut look at this, only people who can read..http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain
is one of my favorite moments in media history.
didn't work on my 'puter...very sad...I need to see that this morning...
enjoy
Limit the voters!
It is not in the interest of incumbents that anyone who has not previously voted to start voting now.
No politician wants ANY new voters, because they are so unpredictable.
Here we continue...
-660
Funny how you have to face more requirments to vote than to run for national office.
)O(
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