Sam Donaldson clashes with Liz Cheney on torture... Liz says waterboarding isn't torture yet again.
By John Amato Tuesday Sep 01, 2009 7:00am
On Sunday's ABC Roundtable, Liz Cheney and Sam Donaldson got into it on the torture investigations.
The only reason she's on is to defend her father once again. This is old and tired. Why does Dick only appear on FOX News to defend his position? We know the answer to that one. Chris Wallace makes with the Love Boat eyes and crawls on his tummy to try and get Dick all excited. They are like two cats in heat. Sam Donaldson wouldn't take Liz's ridiculous arguments. I mean, she actually says that there already were investigations...cough...cough...by the Bush administration and they passed with flying colors. She then continues to lie about the 2004 report and says that nobody was raped...Sure, Liz...
Liz: You do, you say it has already been looked at..
Sam: By who?
Liz: By career prosecutors...
Sam: In the Bush administration justice department.
But Sam, they were less political than Eric Holder, who is a political appointee...
When Sam brought up drilling people in the head and rape, Liz Cheney was outraged. Not at the act, but at the accusation...
Liz: That is totally, that is inexcusable..
Sam: It's in the report...
Liz: Nobody raped anybody...
George: The law said the threats were illegal, It's against the law.
Liz: Wait a second, that's not clear.
{}
Sam: Everyone except one person that I know has commented ....says torture is waterboarding is wrong.
Liz: Waterboarding isn't torture. We can go that path...the lack of seriousness here is important...
When a conservative is losing an argument, one of their weapons is to say that you're not serious. It's a one stop shop argument fixer. Kristol uses the word "serious" a lot to make himself sound intelligent, but nobody buys it except FOX.
Oh and Liz is still trying to sell her best product of all: Waterboarding isn't torture. How many times has she denied it already?
Login or Register to post comments.
Just why in the heck is Cheney continually brought back on national TV to discuss these issues? What are her qualifications? Did Dickhead pass along top secret information to his daughter?
She needs to go back and crawl into an undisclosed hole with her jackass of a father.
she's just another Beltway insider.
"News" interview guests are taken directly from the guest list on the rubber chicken circuit.
From what I understand, Paul Krugman said that one of her jobs was created especially for her...."Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs"
I really wonder sometimes if Dick passed along government secrets to her.
The point is that all of these shows are totally useless.
They provide no information, no balance, no facts and are merely a forum for government officials, organizations, etc. to present their weekly talking points in a cost free forum.
It really has become "State Television". All of it.
These shows are ego feeders for the sGregory feeds his ego openly each week. George Step-on-an-octopus does the same. Chris Wallace had Cheney on to feed his ego and make him think he is special.
It's a joke that this criminal (Dick Cheney, that is) gets any attention paid to him at all, and while I don't get it, I do laugh every time some news organization gives him the time of day.
As to his talking-points-spouting progeny, that's an even more bizarre proposition- I care why, again, what she thinks or says?
She is totally unqualified to be promoting (supposedly) truthful facts. She is such a tool. Everything out of her mouth is orchestrated and meant to promote 'dear old dad'. She constantly interrupts other guests, especially those making solid points in the opposite direction. Liz must have been brought up; he who is the loudest wins. I would not be surprised to learn that she and dad have been secretly dating, since she was 13.
It's obvious now that all the Cheney rotten apples don't fall far from the lying tree.
"A tree that produces no fruit is fit only for the fire"...or words to that effect.
Uh oh, the gays are in trouble again.
When she knows she's losing the argument, that's when she filibusters. We should give her credence regarding what is torture? Ha Ha Ha
That would be like giving Palin credence when she talks about the "law department"
Let the 24percenters talk about her. Mentioning her name at all only legitimizes her.
Which one, Lizzy or Sarah?
BOTH!
It's not like either one of them is planning to disappear. They both want office, or sacks and sacks and sacks of cash, or both.
Just waterboard the shit out of Liz Cheney until.... until - what? She promises that these evil scum will not show their faces in public AGAIN - EVAH!
Maybe if she and her dad didn't act so defensive we wouldn't be so sure they have done anything wrong. She has learned from her dad that you can tell a lie and if you're caught just say, So?
oh liz, since you don't believe waterboarding is torture,
then you won't mind when someone is sent to strap you to
a board and continue the fucking brain-washing your criminal
farter has already started......it's not torture you know,
because you and your farter say so. spelling intentional.
Luke, err, I mean Liz...
I am your FATHER...... [wheeze]
Darth Cheney right there on the Roundtable next Sunday morning. Then we'll see if it's really, really, really torture or not!!!!!
Oh, and invite Glen Beck, too!!
..should come just to see what the fuss is all about.
He'd be more than welcome to put his...mouth where his mouth is!
The more the merrier!
and let's find out how long it takes her to change her tune on waterboarding. I got five bucks that says we could change her mind in less than one minute.
I've got a hundred bucks that says she'd go right back to "Waterboarding isn't torture!" as soon as she got her breath back.
We keep criticizing the existing status quo talking heads, when we have the money and talent to launch a show of our own.
The Liberal sect of our society can afford to purchase ABC and put it back into reality. Why criticize, when we can do?
n/t
I wonder if Lizzy knows the history of water boarding and how many people were convicted for doing it?
...and hung in WWII.
they were hanged. Sorry /grammar stuff... :P
They might have also been hung, but I'm afraid we'll never really know.
I hope Cheney gets nailed for his obvious lying and illegal actions. Maybe investigate Lizzie's closet too, another stupid Right wing whore.
Liz Cheney's voice appears louder than Donaldson. Her arguments are heard more easily, her opinion is lickely to be the prevailing one. Somehow, she always manages to finish her sentences and they are heard more easily. My suspicion that her mic has been given priority is again reinforced.
ahhh, liz cheney.
sadly, yet not surprisingly, she is wrong. there are credible reports about detainees being sodomized by flashlights, and we had (have?) our own pentagon-approved rape rooms.
as far as waterboarding, i would like to ask dick-liz cheney if american officials should have been charged with murder for hanging the japanese soldiers convicted of torturing (by waterboarding)prisoners after WWII.
the reichwing is tripping over their bullshit on encouraging torture, you can smell it.
those that the public is not allowed to see? So, how does Liz know rapes never happened? Didn't she see the photos or did her father only selectively reveal his secrets to her? She has no credibility at all, and to trot her out as someone with a legitimate opinion about anything is an insult to everyone. Don't watch any show that has her on, unless they rip her a new one.
if the photos are not seen...they don't exist.
Perception is reality.
the ball under a chair so the baby can no longer see it. To the baby, it no longer exists. I had forgotten that that is the extent of intellectual development for many people. Thank you for reminding me.
http://iangarrickmason.files.wordpress.com/20...
Stephanopoulos is so full of shit to put this unqualified jaded slut on the "Roundtable" yet again to whore for her bloodthirsty mass murdering father. A fucking horrible joke.
It's Okay To Torture If You Are A Republican.
Now if you're a D and you get a BJ . . .
The defense should have been that the bj was torture.
I believe the standard answer is...
...Thrice!
(give that man 30 silver pieces...)
only has the credibility we give her.
If Donaldson chooses to argue with the living embodiment of what is wrong with nepotism, that's his choice. Why are we engaging in whether Sam got one in on Liz? Who cares?
It isn't as if this was an actual discussion, it isn't.
Or as if Liz was intellectually honest enough to really discuss something, she isn't.
And, what to me is the most important point of all, it isn't as if Liz Cheney is in any way a justifiable participant in this discussion. She isn't. She's only on for the reality tv/voyueristic appeal of watching someone's kid to say anything to defend something indefensible that her parent did. What does that have to do with me, or any of us? Nothing.
Quit giving this Jerry Springer episode any more life. Let her fade into well-deserved obscurity.
I know it's OT...but DAMN!
Cheney/Scarborough 2012???
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andy-ostroy/pre...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/01/chen...
Who is Liz Cheney? Nepotism at its finest.
Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs 2002-3. Cheney's task was to channel money to pre-screened groups, some of which were not identified publicly for fear of retaliations from extant governments they sought to undermine.
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of State For Near Eastern Affairs, 2005-7. As late as April 11, 2009, Iranian officials investigating "cyber-crimes" cited Cheney's efforts in the daily newspaper Iran, specifically the "Democracy Program" initiative as parallel to a Netherlands-funded push for a "velvet revolution" accomplished by a media campaign to polarize the country.
Head of the Iran Syria Policy and Operations Group, 2006. Of particular scrutiny was a grants program administered by Elizabeth Cheney's unit, in collaboration with a Republican-affiliated foundation, the International Republican Institute. The Times maintained that when the group became controversial, with critics saying that it was plotting covert actions that could escalate into war with Iran and Syria, the group was disbanded.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Cheney...
WATERBOARD Cheney.
Especially Liz.
Bad apples all around: Liz Cheney's husband is Philip Perry.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/phil...
Mini Me "waterboarding is not torture"
So when will Mini Me agree to get on the waterboard? My guess is when Sean Hannity does it. Mini Me is just another tough talking coward just like the war criminal, combat dodging chickenhawk, mass murdering father of hers.
Hopefully C&L will put up the video of Matthews all over Duncan Hunter last night.
Damn, I missed that. Hopefully it'll be here soon.
protect her dad. Hunter is batshit crazy.
But did you see Ed Schulz totally rip ron christie a new poop-hole?
Between beck, kristol, and christie...I don't know who has the most punchable face.
He wears glasses and because he is cockeyed can't tell where a punch is coming from.
try to hit him from both directions. That way he sees 'em both coming.
fisted nerd punch!
Hadn't used that one in awhile.
Then again, maybe you won't. Either way it's worth the effort.
Check Video Cafe. They have clips we don't always have the time to put up here at C&L.
The Duncan Hunter/Chris Matthews clip is here.
Thank you so much, Nicole.
...waterboard Cheney first! Then waterboard his Mini Me!
I've seen it here in earlier posts but I think it is very important. Why is Liz Cheney on these shows. Who cares what she has to say? She is not qualified to even give an opinion on the matter. Was she in the war(s)? Did she enlist? Was she at Gitmo or any of these "Black Site" Prisons? Is she really a clandestine CIA operative? Shit no she isn't!
Liz, STFU! You are inadequate in EVERY way to discuss such matters. You are a liar and an ignorant puppet of your evil father.
And "news" networks you are half to blame for continually putting her in front of a camera. WTF is wrong with you bag-o-a$$holes? You guys are feeding the appetite of the wingnuts, KNOCK IT OFF!
They're admitting they did things that are illegal.
They're claiming they did them in the national interest.
They are daring Obama and the Dims to do anything about uit, claiming that any investigation must be "political."
No jury in the USA will EVER have a unanimous verdict against the Chimp or his minions if they claim they were protecting Murka.
sales. More money for the Cheneys. Boycott these shows and their sponsors. That is a tactic that works. Many will be pleasantly surprised at how little money you must actually spend to live comfortably. It actually becomes fun and gratifying.
But how about the tribunal/judges at the Hague???!
Why are these idiots being so soft on this woman? She should have been called out at leaset 10 times.
I wish she'd go on Maddow or Olberman. They'd mop the floor with her.
she'll never be on either Keith or Rachel's show. Real pesky facts would get in the way of their lies.
Lies about what?
.
..since Waterboarding is, in fact, torture, well, your pappy shouldn't have any problems facing charges on that torture if it was so necessary and patriotic. The only agency that can determine what is and what isn't torture (beyond the moral compass most humans have) is the Red Cross and guess what they say?
!
Funny how all those who deny waterboarding is torture, Hannity, Cheney, Cheney II, Limbaugh, etc. refuse to be waterboarded themselves. Come on guys, let the water flow!
They are privy to too many national security secrets.
Go ahead, keep suggesting that US troops be tortured.
International Criminal Court would consider the practice of waterboarding and other tortures serious enough to warrant convictions with life sentences.
Lack of seriousness my ass. I wonder what kind of tune she'd sing if she were sujected to 180 or so waterboarding sessions, or stress positions, or rape, or drills to the head, or mock executions, or prolonged sleep deprivation or beatings, or threats that her loved ones would be raped or executed, or.....
Ms. Cheney was obviously born in the wrong country at the wrong time. Too bad for her she didn't come of age in Germany during the early '30's. She would have been right at home.
Why is it that most of the poo-pooers of waterboarding are Neocon chickenhawks?
Why no mention by any Cheney of the views of McCain, Jesse Ventura, the instructors at the SERE School, or even the shock jock who underwent it?
Good old chickenhawks. They just love war and all the nasty stuff associated with it, just as long as they don't have to have it happen to them.
satisfying than reruns of wrestling. Only more repetitive.
defending waterboarding with the argument that it can't be torture if we do it to our own troops during training. As if there is no qualitative difference between having the act performed by someone who is trying to avoid killing you or an enemy interrogator who doesn't give a s**t whether you live or die. It's like being given a choice between having your surgery performed by your family physician or Dr. Mengele.
military soldiers have been waterboarded 183 times, as part of their training?
Or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqImkDgDwHU
has no statute of limitations...
However, I am not prepared to wait any longer for Cheney, and the rest of the criminal Bush cabal, to get their well-deserved comeuppances. If the ICC is the agency that is ready to prosecute, send them all to face the immediate consequences of their actions. As many have already said herein above, if it's not torture, what do they have to fear?
For those whose activism extends beyond blogging online, here are some of the addresses you can use to send your five letters this week (a la Ms. Gloria Steinem):
ABC
500 S. Buena Vista Street
Burbank, CA 91521-4551
George Stephanopoulos
c/o ABC News
7 West 66th Street
New York, NY 10023
Elizabeth Cheney
1000 Wilson Blvd, # 6242
Washington, DC 20522-0001
Richard B Cheney
1 Observatory Cir NW
Washington, DC 20008-3619
Sam Donaldson
c/o Sam Donaldson Center for Communication Studies
500 W. University Ave
Cotton Memorial, Suite 204
El Paso, TX 79902
I include an address for Donaldson that might be a long shot, but I feel he should be thanked for refuting Liz Cheney's blatant lies on waterboarding. Furthermore, any of us who actually send a thank you might encourage Sam to commit himself to true journalism. Perhaps he could partner with Helen Thomas to model true journalism for the rest of the dissembling shills infecting our current 'media.'
The one I sent to Richard B Cheney came back marked:
Moved: Forwarding to Undisclosed Location
Please, do sit down and write these wee inglorious charlatans a letter. Please.
Classic plausible deniability ruse. She does cover fire and if she messes up to much, he can come out and do a 1 or 2 sound bite speech and disappear again. Cheney will not do any real interviews with real reporting due to not wanting to get into more legal trouble than he is already in. Notice that they are avoiding trips to cretin countries too. They should ask sharper questions to as press people or reporters. Just take what she said then ask her if we should be doing this to her kids if we think they are plotting to do something, or twist it even further like they do and give them a taste of their own medicine. If we think they had a ploy to overthrow or undermine the USA should we wisk them away to secret sites with no legal recourse or even a defense ? Some times when the person is lacking in higher thought you may need to use similar tactics when dealing with them. Manly because they are stuck in a loop of thought or enable to perform real intellectual enlightenment or evolution.
like the Pink Floyd song. 13 channles shit on the TV. Who fuck is lize chanie. Why are they giving her any air time, is just to stir up the shit. News? all they do any more is stir upshit. no news, they havent put real news on T V for the last 30 years. its all just bullshit.
What I cannot understand is why these "news" shows think this everyone talking over each other attracts viewers? I simply don't watch these freak shows anymore. From time to time, I watch clips on websites (like this one). And I turn it off before it's finished, more often than not. The worst offenders are Chrissie Matthews and this one, although I am not an expert, since I don't watch them often.
Does this get more viewers? Really? And, if not, why do they do it? I guess I am old fashioned -- when I watch something, I actually want to hear what they have to say. If I want to watch this constant talking over each other, I would just volunteer at a pre-school. Then again, children talking over each other do it much less frequently than these clowns.
Waste Of Time.
I think Liz Cheney should be taken out and waterboarded until her daddy confesses his crimes. It's good enough for the Republicans to use, then it's good enough for me. Besides, we'll find out just how tough Liz and Dick really are.
You can't drown vampires.
Great comment!!
Actually you can. Water like fire is a universal destroyer of monsters.
According to Romanian Lore, a vampire can't cross over running water, where like any mortal they can only get across by bridge or boat. They can't even change into a flying creature, and as mist they wouldn't be able to travel that far, where they would fall in and drown.
I suspect that during the vampire scare in Romania in the 18th century, due to a combination of a rabies outbreak (werewolves) and the plague (presumably pneumatic), pursuing the bodies of the recently dead, cremating them, and letting the river wash the ashes away was actually a solid response to a plague situation. The wooden stakes and beheadings, however, was at best psychodramas for the afflicted towns. This went into vampire lore as a loss of power around running water.
In 1847's Varney the Vampire: Or The Feast of Blood, by James Malcolm Rymer, Sir Francis Varney was thrown into the water, where he floated, but he couldn't come on shore unless someone brought him there. When a local fisherman thought he was rescuing a drowning man, and that man attacked his comely daughter during the night, he threw him back in.
who would it be?
And don't say "no one, because I don't torture." As the Cons see it, it's not torture so that makes it okay to use it on them.
McCain spoke truth, like no one else. Forget partisanship, and the " Us VS Them" mentality... John McCain spoke honorably and truthfully as to what "certain criminals" in our highest elected officials allowed and condoned... and, after allowing our country to be attacked on 9/11 by dereliction of duty to our Nation. Yes Dick Cheney should be afraid. Afraid of his complicity in damaging our Nations standing and how we hold our commitments to the law of the Geneva convention...and the repercussions of those decisions under the Geneva convention. Richard Cheney is frightened he might well land his sorry ass before a Geneva tribunal...along with many others of the past 8 years.
Waterboarding is not torture.
Let me waterboard you and afterward if you live and can say it is not torture, then I will never speak of it again.
It won't happen though because all these people that are for it are also cowards, liars, and fools!
republicanism is a mental illness!
The Cheney Crime Family.
Waterboard the whole lot, and then see how they define torture.
Bush should have just sent her in to interrogate Al Qaeda terrorists.
The unabomber saying that what he did is not terrorism, or Bin Laden claiming that 9/11 should not be investigated. Leave it for a psycho to claim that torture is not torture. Ted Bundy should have used this defense.
Being given such a big platform to to defend that despicable piece of Fecal matter she calls a father. This Spineless, Gutless Coward who has admitted to circumventing the LAWS of this NATION to serve his own means yet the CLOWNS of the MSM still think they have to protect him and give this twit a platform to again misinterpret and twist the facts, I mean this BIMBO is so Stupid even when caught in the LIE she Lies to get out of it. I am tired of the MSM still trying to protect this Piece of garbage and the NAZI regime he served in.
Ms. Cheney,
WTF do you know about waterbaording based on the position you held in the administration? Were we misinformed about what you did? Were you applying the gag, holding the poor SOB down, or pouring the Deer Park down their throats and nostrils?
If you can tell us any reason, other than to protect your loathsome Daddy, why we should listen to you, then maybe we'll listen to what you have to say. Until then, STFU!
And this marks the end of todays edition of Press the Meat.
Well then. Waterboarding should be a mandatory part of the voting process for registered Republicans. It would solve all our problems!
Comes out first, then his daughter comes out behind him.
I'm tellin ya, They're trying to get out in front of this to sway public opinion. They need their stalwart believers to back them.
And with all the hub bub over healthcare, it's a perfect setting for them to get their little soldiers to come to their aid.
But uh, It's too late. Remember when I said all it will take is a little crack. It's already growing.
For one thin dime. A mere tenth of a dollar. You can see...
Blackwater was running wife swapping games at home and a child prostitution ring in Iraq.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/...
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthrea...
Where is the OUTRAGE?
Is it because she's the evil child of the degenerated former vice-president that she's afforded all this press. Even her gay sister is a fool. She donated money to a candidate recently who's not only against gay marriage, but also gay adoption, and she and her partner have an adopted child. Talk about self-hatred. They are as screwed-up as Michael Jackson's family.
...and why is Barack Obama doing the same exact things as the criminal Bush administration. Do you get it yet?
They are playing us all for fools and nothing will change unless we unite against the Establishment and drop the left/right fighting because they will destroy us all.
Where are the Anti-War, Anti-Torture, Anti-Spying and Anti-Corruption democrats now? Will you stand against the anointed one?
Obama preserves renditions as counter-terrorism tool
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/feb/01/natio...
Obama Continues Torture and Torture-related Murder in the Bogus War on Terror
VIDEO:Democracy Now’s Amy Goodman about torture-homicide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLJ-cnvkGGA&fe...
Obama Sides With Bush in Spy Case
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/22/obam...
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/02/obam...
Obama to CIA: Bombs Away! No Let Up in US Drone Attacks
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=671812...
Why isn't Obama called a war criminal? A person of principle should have no problem accepting these facts and rendering the same opinion of Barrack Obama.
Remember that line Bush had so much trouble with?
Fool me once...
This assertion is potentially libelous and needs further attribution. Despite numerous sources, it’s origination is illusive to date. To wit: Dick Cheney is said to have contacted the Afghanistan station chief to encourage Xe (aka Blackwater) to recruit a sufficient number of martyr-inclined al-Qaeda or Taliban zealots to infiltrate the US for purposes of pointed terrorism and destruction of emotionally symbolic targets, a la Statue of liberty, Wall Street, NYSE, Golden Gate Bridge et al. Timing critical to influence Obama’s defeat in 2012, and to exonerate Mr. Cheney with an ‘I-told-you-so exclamation regarding Obama’s weakness on defense and Attorney General Holder’s ‘political’ investigation of CIA enhanced interrogation techniques, including water boarding. Sources requesting to remain unnamed said Mr Panetta was not pleased with the command circumvention, but for the interim would await direct fact-finding consultation before commenting further.
Login or Register to post comments.