Frank Gaffney on the Iraq War: Yes, Americans did have to die, but he's delighted we did what we did!
By SilentPatriot Tuesday Dec 16, 2008 7:00pm
In the wake of Dick Cheney's steadfast refusal to admit any wrongdoing, Chris Matthews and David Corn absolutely demolish wingnut/neocon extraordinaire and Cheney-apologist Frank Gaffney over the necessity of the Iraq War and Saddam Hussein's phantom weapons of mass destruction.
Matthews: "You guys sold the war as a nuclear threat to the United States. You sold every trick you could to get us into this war. And now you're backpedaling. And I do find it astounding....four thousand people are dead because of the way you feel and, Frank Gaffney, you're wrong about this."
Gaffney: "It is regrettable that they had to die, but I believe they did have to die. The danger was inaction could have resulted in the death of a great many more Americans than 4,000. And that's the reason I'm still delighted that we did what we did."
It astounds me that people like Gaffney can continue to cling to the idea that Saddam really did pose an imminent threat/that he really had WMD/that the intelligence wasn't cooked etc. and still be regarded as some sort of foreign policy expert who should be taken seriously. It's 100% clear now that the administration "fixed the facts around the policy" by cherry-picking dubious intelligence reports that supported their case while ignoring others (that were far more credible) that disproved it. Not only should Gaffney and his ilk be laughed out of town, they should be committed and/or indicted.
You can catch the entire glorious smackdown here.
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are textbook cases of sociopath behavior...
...for Team B.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3defm8SQ9o&fe...
known as a gaffney instead of a gaffe.
Those American deaths were worth it because HE OR HIS KIDS weren't among them.
Cowardly neocon chickenhawk chickenshit war supporters make me sick.
As a Vet of that mess and as someone who now works with Vets and Soldiers, it shocks and appalls me that people (I use the term loosely) like gaffney can be so flippant about it.
when you're a smug pussie. This guy would piss his pants at the
thought of what you and your fellow vets have gone through. Wouldn't it be absolutely awesome to have him in a room full of vets spouting this bullshit?
Its the stunning coldness of the calculation that they HAD to die.
With that knowledge,why not just go ahead and pick names off of a roster of eligible(poor,Black)candidates to go and die for this shit twisted ideology Frank smugly defends with impervious imperial arrogance?BTW,when oh when will we start to see some cracks in this wall of smug detachment from these thugs?Do they really just not fucking care?Its chilling.
Let's swap Gaffney for the guy who threw the shoes.
I mean wow. Holy. Fuck. Wow. Ok, that's the Tecate talking (delicious Mexican beer, MUCH cheaper than Corona).
Wow.
I mucho prefer Guiness.
Delighted that over 4000 Americans and a million Iraqis are dead because of a lie?
I'm waiting for someone to punch this guy's teeth out in public-
then the many-headed mob should. These fuckers must be punished.
was when Gaffney kicked his own ass, although Tweety didn't pick up on it.
Matthews said the neocons, Bush Jr & Cheney, used terms like "existential threat" to describe Saddam Hussein, and Gaffney replied, paraphrasing, "no one said Saddam was an existential threat".
So, we decided NOT to nail bin Laden, but instead went after a dictator who Gaffney said wasn't an "existential threat" to the US.
So, if Saddam had no WsMD, no ties to al-Qaeda or 9-11, and wasn't an "existential threat" to the US, just why do Gaffney and the other bloodthirsty neocons think we had to attack Iraq?
Also, how many of our blithering, shrill, Saddam-hating neocon chickenhawks were all in favor of strongly supporting Saddam Hussein as a bulwark against Iran and Khomeini?
These cowardly warmongers like Gaffney, Bush Jr & Cheney all need to spend the rest of their miserable lives in a cage, naked, underground, never to see the world outside their permanently-lit cells.
The only electronics allowed are a television screen, upon which plays the names of all those who died on Sept 11, and all those US troops and innocent civilians killed in Iraq thanks to W's decision to invade & occupy those who didn't attack us on Sept. 11.
Like the lights which can't be dimmed, the monitor can't be turned off either.
I would suggest non-stop Jonas Brothers videos, but that might be too cruel.
High School Musical. I'm glad my kids are too old for that.
Reason and a rational deconstruction of what these warmongering fuckheads say/write/drool is a waste of time and neuronal activity. From an civilized and therefore ethical perspective, the best thing to do is to ignore them or, if so moved, trash them with counter-arguments. From a lizard brain perpsective, a more effective strategy is to plow the degenerate killer in the mouth.
they might get a kick out of watching what they are responsible for.
why the fuck are these proven liars still asked to be on the television machine?!
public declarations of lawlessness and war crimes admitted by dick and shrub from their own mouths over the last couple of days. Two wars, one of them illegal, a shredded constitution, a tanked economy, criminal bankers, etc...fuckin' etc...and amurka acts like it doesn't have a pulse. Where are the protests? Where are the villagers ready to stand in the streets and demand action and arrest of the criminals? Oh just fuck it all. I'm really trying to hold on to some fucked up fantasy of a great country and idea that just isn't coming back and never really completely manifested in the first place. I'll attempt to hold on and lie to myself some more but I'm losing patience. I feel like we are carrying on a party that should be a funeral while the goddamn building burns down with us inside.
Hoo boy! A verbal smackdown from tweety; such chagrin should be punishment enough for a propaganda minister and criminal conspiritor. (Snarkin' through clenched teeth)
You can't hit the streets to protest when you're working all the time, and even if you get to some of the protests, you're shuttled by the police into a free-speech zone.
Amurka is a free speech zone. When the multitudes are large enough, then we do the herding. And as people lose their jobs with no prospects or hope, what else is there to do but go adventuring? And civil disobedience (emphasis on the word civil) in large enough numbers is an adventure.
The media and the righties are too busy trying to create "scandals" about Obama's alleged ties to the Ill. Gov. What a warped sense of priorities. They will gladly overlook Bush and his criminal cabal, but are itching to find something, anything to besmirch Obama. I have an anology for these freaks: There is a boat full of people when suddenly, a swarm of vicious mosquitoes attacks them, sending several people overboard. Most reasonable people would focus on saving the drowning. The twenty-percenters would focus on swatting away the mosquitoes first.
Why is the fact the US put Saddam in power and backed him for years downplayed by those who cite his overthrow as a justification for the war? Seems to me the US created Saddam.
And right wing nuts like Bill Orally slammed France and Russia for arming Iraq- um, didn't the US do the same?
Yep, the Americans supported the Ba'ath party to overthrow General Kassim in '63 because it was deemed that Kassim was too much like a commie. Blowback is sure a bitch, aint it?
Please Gaff, speak at the 'Iraq Widows Group', and you just straighten them out on all this. One on one, face to face,family member by family member, moms, dads, Kids. We'll all be waiting for your report on 'how it went'.
Our objective was in Tora Bora, or Saudi Arabia, and we had credible evidence from inspectors that there were no WMD's in Iraq, other than what we sold them, and were by then useless. We have now lost more American lives in Afghanistan and Iraq than were lost on 9-11, but of course that's just a number.
Millions of honorable, hard-working, decent Americans -- Republicans as well as Democrats -- are unemployed this holiday season, but this assclown has a lifetime sinecure in the think-tank world. He'll NEVER worry where his next meal is coming from or how to pay for the kids' braces.
Think about it.
Cheney blew this and other neocon Repubs out of the water with his "yes we did torture" and "we'd have invaded Iraq with or without WMD." When do the trials start?
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
You're right. They just had to scare the masses first to get 'em on board
that Gaffney and his ilk are blind, obstinate, idealogues who have no problem lying to justify their folly, and whose hands are covered in the innocent blood of hundreds of thousands.
But let's not forget that only a handful of people in the world were more strident and influential in jingoistic cheerleading of Bush and the Iraq invasion than Chris Matthews:
"He won the war. He was an effective commander... I think we like having a hero as our president."
etc, ad nauseum
http://mediamatters.org/items/200609210010
This mock outrage and finger pointing is relatively recent. Sure, give him credit for wetting his finger and figuring out which way the wind is blowing a few years too late, but keep in mind that Tweety has the moral compass of a street pimp.
What he do?
I really like it when Tweety gets pissed off at these assholes.
who needs to be left on his lonesome in the middle of Baghdad. Or on second thought, leave him with an American patrol in Iraq, after telling the soldiers what he said. They can decided where to post him with only so much protection and backup. Gaffney and his species need to come face to face with the people they've affected in the same situations they have caused. Then we'll see how outspoken they are.
I regret that the WRONG PEOPLE DIED.
IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GAFNEY AND HIS TYPE.
HIS BOSSES AND HIS UNDERLINGS.
They are the liars and they should be dead instead
of all the innocents.
Didn't have any skin in the game did you Gaffney? Makes it easy to be so dismissive of criticism when you aren't personally compromised, isn't it?
Sadistic cockroaches like you make me sick and I am sure that there is a special place in hell for Neocon scumbags like you. I hope that in the hell of your existence you personally get to witness the horror and sadness of every one of those people that actually sacrificed something in the name of your psychotic and grisly indulgence.
go back to civil society as if nothing had happened. Respectfully call them 'war criminals' every chance you get - I once read Rumsfeld gets irritated by this - and when they respond, ask them if they ever served in the military.
The Downing Street Memo proves that the Bush cartel would do everything it could to start a war with Iraq. They lied to congress to make the case. They lied to the UN. They all need to be tried for war crimes.
Cheney, Bush, Rummy & Rice, the owner of Blackwater, and all the Media Owners as well as Pundits really ought to be dumped in downtown Baghdad, perhaps in the square where Blackwater employees slaughtered civilians.
I really mean that. Even if imprisoned for the rest of their lives in Gitmo, Justice would not be served.
... but he is talking about a different subject! Chris asked him if he agrees with Cheney's statement and Gaffney answered by talking about the perceived level of threat from WMD's in Iraq.
But the main point of Cheney's statement was, that the level of threat was IRRELEVANT for the decision to go to war!!!
assholes like Gaffney should
have their prairie oysters
stomped on.
They have none to stomp.
Yeah, I saw this on the Chris Matthews' show tonight. When I heard Gaffney say that those 4000+ Americans "had to die" and soon after says he was "delighted" at what Bush did, I immediately sent that bastard an email expressing my disgust.
What's wrong with these PNAC neocon f'ng f'**ks? They should never again be allowed to influence our policy.
According to the cia-The world factbook, The average age of the population in Afghanistan is 17. We are at war with a country of teenagers. Aren't we the bravest of the brave.
he should be renditioned to iraq, stripped naked and be forced to walk the gauntlet of the troops he sees as cannon fodder
death is too good for him
As if we needed any further proof that these people dont get it, it never ceases to amaze me how someone can surround themselves with yes men and toadies like Gaffney, who will peddle their bullshit until their dying days, even when they know that everyone knows they are lying out their ass.
It's simply a question of them not caring. They are vile, disgusting people.
"It is regrettable that they had to die, but I believe they did have to die"
What a tool. On a lie.
*sigh* Another evil scumbag!
What an obtuse twat.
It's amazing how rosy this guy's view is considering how far up his ass his head is!
The thought that so many of us tried to stop this war before it even got started is sad, but we were called cowards and unpatriotic. It just makes me ill in so many ways. This was just war profiteering at its ugliest, and justified with pretended patriotism. And when the principals are pressed with the facts that they lied, they just say "So, what?"
Bush deliberately lied to every American when his administration change the National Intelligence reports stating Saddam Hussein was not an imminent threat. *see the White Papers
Bush relaxing of regulations on corporate America has open the door to a massive scale of robbing the taxpayers blind. The state of our economy is in dire straits. When Bush said "ownership society" I knew we were in trouble because he never said who would be owning.
Then, Bush has the audacity to say, "So, what?" Look at the riots happening in Italy because the people have had enough of the Conservative governments policies there. Even the French staged massive protests for workers rights.
When will we as Americans take a stand? At the very least, Bush should be charged with murder. This is unlikely to happen unless the people throw their weight behind it. The reason is because you know any prosecutor willing to take this challenge knows their life will be in extreme danger. Only the people in mass numbers can steer this country back in the right direction.
Look it was inevitable for this shit to happen. The party is now about over, and the truth is about to be impossible for the Bush crime syndicate to cover up. What else can these smug fucks do but try and convince the American people that even without all their PROOFS, it was still imperative that America take Saddam out because he was a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad man. Christ, they are taking us for fools, and think we are greedy bullies just like they are.
It is now and always has been about the oil! They did not care then what the truth was, what the intelligence was, or whether the American people would eventually find out about their damned lying ways ... as long as American companies could rake in billions of dollars from this, they were all for it. They made certain that Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater, and all the boys from their private country clubs were lined up with dozens of cargo crates with which to haul off our money, and they didn't give a tinkers damn about the loss of life. To them, all the lives lost are collateral damage, all inconsequential and unimportant as long as the money keeps rolling in and making them and theirs filthy rich. The soldiers dying didn't matter, they don't really give a shit about that. They avoided service as young men, and they don't care any more now about military service than they did when it was their turn to serve. ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS THE OIL AND THE MONEY.
Now they have to spin it in hopes that they can avoid trials for war crimes.
Don't ya just love how even in a conversation regarding war crimes, the media only refer to the death of 4000 people.....ooops Americans......now, about that three-quarters of a million dead Iraqi's.........who mentions them?
...I know I've posted this before, but it just describes these war criminals so perfectly.....I'lll do it again......:)
The Burning Bush
Blistered souls float scattered about,
adrift on a sea of pain.
Crimson waves of death crest near,
as The Decider lies in vain.
Fear the horde, no, the other horde,
he plies throughout the land.
As our children’s children disintegrate,
perhaps an eye, or yet a hand.
He says he guards our very lives,
the existence of civilized man.
But in the alleys of ancient Baghdad,
America’s Best wish he’d share his plan.
Vacant cries of “who could have known?”,
amidst the pyres of World Trade.
Lay bare the myth of his compassion,
“My Pet Goat”, his cowardly shade.
Proxy war and proxy dead,
to The Shrub it matters not.
Provided Dick can exercise Options,
as long as Haliburton stays red-hot.
Treasure bled in flesh and gold,
across dunes of soulless oil.
Simmering cauldrons of historic hate,
churned to a gently rolling boil.
The Burning Bush admits no errors,
nor the ditch into which we’ve steered.
Back into the breach he madly proclaims,
after all, “you volunteered”
RJF
I realize how rotten this sounds BUT,
Why couldn't Gaffney be one of those Americans that had to die?
Because neither he nor anyone he knows served in any modern war.
Its hard to die in war when your weapon is a desk, a computer, and tv appearances.
THAT is why there is an International Criminal Court at the Hague...to try irredeemable psycopaths who will never stop killing, so long as they have means, influence or power. The ICC exists to protect the citizens of the world from monsters like Cheney, Gaffney, Bush, Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin....
This Nation's future is so fucked if our leaders allow these monster to walk free.
only she was talking about the justified deaths of 500,000 children.
Isn't it time to admit that the entire establishment is corrupt and beyond redemption?
Agreed. It's both right and left that are guilty of war crimes. Clinton was responsible for probably a million deaths in Iraq by embargo. Bush has probably caused the deaths of 2 million by military violence. The USA is pretty freaking evil if you ask me, makes me want to live somewhere else frankly. Reverend Wright had an excellent point.
I winged a letter to Matthews via msnbc (for what good it will do) as well as letters before trying to explain about PNAC.
Seems to me that Bush ("So what") and Cheney's 'revelations' that he did, indeed, support the "enhanced interrogation techniques" - like we didn't already know that - are "just dying to admit" what they have done ("A FEW GOOD MEN" comes to mind, here, as it has to me from the get-go) because they know - in real time - no one will do a thing.
I usually think Turley is a very smart man, but his comment last night about the 'big yawn' was wrong. The 'big yawn' is not from the public as much as it is from those in DC who could do something, but won't.
{Deleted}including this lying neocon chickenhawk piece of shit propagandist.
{ Please do not advocate violence in any form here. Thank You. SiteMonitor}
And { Deleted} that lyin POS!
{ Please do not advocate violence in any form here Thank You. SiteMonitor}
Apologies SM...
what about cartoon violence? ;)
Let's find out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AzNRmjUPXw
I couldn't believe it. Tell that to the over 4000 families.
Not to mention the Iraqis. He couldn't care less about them.
Just more revisionism. Here, there, everywhere.
These people (gaffney types) are just as complicit in war crimes as are bush and cheney. I hope history remembers them with as much disdain as was generated ageinst the Hitler apologists.
Bush twisted Blix's testamony completely out of proportion to justify his invasion of Iraq.
http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/SC7asdelivere...
Hans Blix UNSC March 7, 2003:
"As I noted on 14 February, intelligence authorities have claimed that weapons of mass destruction are moved around Iraq by trucks and, in particular, that there are mobile production units for biological weapons. The Iraqi side states that such activities do not exist. Several inspections have taken place at declared and undeclared sites in relation to mobile production facilities. Food testing mobile laboratories and mobile workshops have been seen, as well as large containers with seed processing equipment. No evidence of proscribed activities have so far been found. Iraq is expected to assist in the development of credible ways to conduct random checks of ground transportation."
"...While the Iraqi side seems to have encouraged interviewees not to request the presence of Iraqi officials (so-called minders) or the taping of the interviews, conditions ensuring the absence of undue influences are difficult to attain inside Iraq. Interviews outside the country might provide such assurance. It is our intention to request such interviews shortly. Nevertheless, despite remaining shortcomings, interviews are useful. Since we started requesting interviews, 38 individuals were asked for private interviews, of which 10 accepted under our terms, 7 of these during the last week."
"How much time would it take to resolve the key remaining disarmament tasks? While cooperation can and is to be immediate, disarmament and at any rate the verification of it cannot be instant. Even with a proactive Iraqi attitude, induced by continued outside pressure, it would still take some time to verify sites and items, analyse documents, interview relevant persons, and draw conclusions. It would not take years, nor weeks, but months. Neither governments nor inspectors would want disarmament inspection to go on forever. However, it must be remembered that in accordance with the governing resolutions, a sustained inspection and monitoring system is to remain in place after verified disarmament to give confidence and to strike an alarm, if signs were seen of the revival of any proscribed weapons programmes."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/...
Bush, March 8, 2003:
"Second, the Chief United Nations Weapons Inspector reported yesterday to the Security Council on his efforts to verify Saddam Hussein's compliance with Resolution 1441. This resolution requires Iraq to fully and unconditionally disarm itself of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons materials, as well as the prohibited missiles that could be used to deliver them. Unfortunately, it is clear that Saddam Hussein is still violating the demands of the United Nations by refusing to disarm.
Iraqi's dictator has made a public show of producing and destroying a few prohibited missiles. Yet, our intelligence shows that even as he is destroying these few missiles, he has ordered the continued production of the very same type of missiles. Iraqi operatives continue to play a shell game with inspectors, moving suspected prohibited materials to different locations every 12 to 24 hours. And Iraqi weapons scientists continue to be threatened with harm should they cooperate in interviews with U.N. inspectors."
Not like any of the people who have died were his kids or anything.
http://www.vagabondstory.com
Sounds like at the end he says inspectors were surprised to find Saddam was 1 year away from having a usable nuke? Seems we would have heard this before if it were true. Shouldn't that mean that Iran is much closer since they actually have some uranium, not just fake documents saying they were trying to buy yellow cake from Niger?
Have you ever noticed that the greatest fuck ups in history are caused by so called educated men and women. The fuck ups are the most expensive in lives lost and wealth. Men and women like these Neocon pricks like Gaffney, Kissinger, Wolfowitz, Perle, Fried, Cheney, Addington, etc., etc. They ridicule us for being so ignorant as they walk away from the carnage with their pockets full of cash. There is a reason that domestic security forces have been reported to be increased by 20,000 just recently, and they are military. These forces are waiting for the civil unrest just on the horizon. Your own military plus Blackwater are going to protect this evil pricks.
These blatently lying bastards, that worked for Dumbya, should all be tried for war crimes [Let's not bring state sanctioned murder into the mix. It's advocacy for violence-Sitemonitor]
And this is my answer again:
When a new and Serious 9-11 Investigation occurs.
It will show that 9-11 was the biggest HOAX in the History. Untill that, THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA and Most Americans will JUSTIFY and blame All the Crimes commited by BUSH Co To the "WAR ON TERROR" and To all those "terrorists" who want to KILL US because they hate "OUR FREEDOM".
9-11 Is the Rooth of most problems we face today and we still don't know who was responsible.
For more Details Read articles and watch videos by:
CYNTHIA McKINNEY,MIKE GRAVEL, PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS , DENNIS KUCINICH, RAY MCGOVERN etc.
I hope they don't Consider this "OFF TOPIC" remove my comment this time again!
Listen to that Christian terrorist. Amazing. The baby killers who got their clocks cleaned by ther Iraqi freedom fighters deserved what they got. At issue is the over one million innocent Iraqi citizens who were raped, tortured, and slaughtered by the Christofascist terrorist regime.
gaffney is DELIGHTED that the usa invaded iraq? either he doesn't know what constitutes an existential threat to a nation's security,or he has deadbolt contempt for his putative audience.i'll leave it to the inferential skills of the reader to figure out who is REALLY delighted with the boy king's decision to invade iraq.give gaffney the gus hall lifetime achievement award for deadenders.kruschev would not have let comments like gaffney's above to be aired on radio moscow,at least till the kiddies were asleep.
at its best. Just like waterboarding isn't torture because America doesn't torture.
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