Huckabee's Commutation Program Apparently Fails Again
By Stella Barkwell Monday Nov 30, 2009 11:00am
The suspect in the slaying of 4 police officers in Washington state, Maurice Clemmons of Lakewood reaped a dream benefit from former Governor Mike Huckabee of Arkansas. He was banged up for decades as a repeat violent offender, and Governor Huckabee commuted his sentence over the protests of prosecutors in the case.
At the age of 18, Clemmons was sentenced to 60 years for theft and burglary charges. He was serving 48 years for other violent crimes. During trials in which he was the defendant, he apparently exhibited some more eyebrow raising behavior, which included reaching for a guard's gun during transport, and threatening the judge.
Because the judge did not recuse himself from that trial and a series of other civil rights violations, several charges against Clemmons were dropped (State of Arkansas v Maurice Clemmons).
Even with all that history, Huckabee, citing Clemmons' youth at the time of the commission of the crimes and incarceration, commuted his sentence after he'd served 11 years on sentences totaling 95 years of jail time. He remained on parole and committed more violent crimes. He was arrested, the paperwork in the cases was bad and the prosecutors did not refile.
In 2004, Columnist Garrick Feldman raised the alarm over Huckabee's practices in the Arkansas Leader, citing the cases of Maurice Clemmons and the rapist Wayne DuMond:
Here is Huckabee's response to critics:
"Have Robert Herzfeld, Larry Jegley and the other prosecuting attorneys prosecuted every crime to the full extent the law allows? In other words, have they in every case pursued the maximum penalties? Did they ever plea bargain? How often? What's the percentage of cases in which they've accepted less than the maximum penalties allowed by law?
"My point is this: They used their discretion to decide they would ask for less punishment than the maximum sentences. They exercised their personal judgment. In about 10 percent of the cases before me, I might use my discretion based on recommendations of the Post Prison Transfer Board, the testimony of officials, prison records, etc.," Huckabee told us.
"In those cases, I'm doing the same thing Herzfeld, Jegley and others have done – using my judgment. The difference is that we never know about their plea bargains and the thought pro-cesses they used. I have to give public notice, contact all officials and then have a 30-day public comment period.
"I'm thinking of trying to get the law changed so prosecutors are required to give notice to all involved, have a 30-day public comment period and seek input prior to a plea bargain or any decision to seek less than the maximum sentences allowed by law," Huckabee says.
In another development, Huck PAC has deflected blame from their man and put off the alleged actions of Clemmons and his presence in the community as "...the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington State..." They go on to say that "...It appears that he has continued to have a string of criminal and psychotic behavior but was not kept incarcerated by either state..." implying that Washington state had legal means to keep him incarcerated after he posted bail. He has not had a trial in Washington state, however he had several in Arkansas. They also declare him to be exhibiting 'psychotic behavior,' apparently bringing all of their psychiatric experience to bear.
Jon Perr has a post on the Top Ten Moments of Huckabee Extremism. Looks like we have another candidate.
Maybe that great gig at Fox is looking even better in the face of scrutiny of presidential campaigns.
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Huck PAC has deflected blame from their man and put off the alleged actions of Clemmons and his presence in the community as "...the result of a series of failures in the criminal justice system in both Arkansas and Washington State..."
They should simply post this on their website - "I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD."
"The dog ate my homework."
..for years over this Willie Horton aff...oh wait, its a republican't this time, so it'll be OK.
Were Huck a Democrat - Limbaugh, Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity, Malkin and Coultergeist would feast on his carcass, but he's a Republican, so wink, wink, nod, nod
This nutjob was shot and killed by Seattle Police early this morning and reported around 4:15am he was dead.
And Carrie Fisher fell for it. "Oh, honeeeee..."
... used far too sparingly.
We have the largest prison society in recorded history. Taking hypocrisy shots at Huckabee is all well and good, but it ignores a very serious problem.
Seems to me there is quite a bit of difference between graning clemency to small time offenders (such as possession of small amounts of drugs and no history of violence) versus clemency for convicts doing hard time for burglary and violent acts.
Do I REALLY need to ask the infamous "Dukakis" question. Naah. There's enough hypocrisy and demagoguery going on all ready.
that this is equivalent to the Dukakis situation with Willie Horton
and that the claims made about Dukakis were fair?
What I am saying is commutation involves JUDGEMENT.
When you have a known violent offender, and his age at the time of the crime was irrelevant, he had convictions he was tried as an adult in accordance with the law, they you have an obligation both moral and as governor responsible for the safety of your constituents to look at ALL facts. Not simply knee jerkedly sign the commutation because the parole board approved it. That's playing politics with public safety. AND Huckabee said he used his JUDGEMENT. Well....now you pay the price. He is TOTALLY unqualified to run for ANY public office, much less President.
an appropriate way to characterize the actions of Governor Dukakis.
Dukakis didn't start the MA furlough program. That was Republican Governor Francis W. Sargent in 1972. Dukakais actually fought allowing prisoners serving life from being included in the program. He lost in the courts.
The other difference is the furlough program was administered by the state department of corrections. Dukakis never approved of the furloughs granted. In the case of Gov. Huckabee and Mr. Clemmons, it was the direct action of the Governor that put him back on the streets.
The two cases are quite different.
the US is the only civilized country I know about to sentence children to life in prison. This man was sentenced to 95 years for a crime committed at 17. And YOU support that?
God help us if the country is populated by folks like you. It's disgusting.
Where did I say that? Projecting much?
I only quote the laws. I don't write them.
What about the kids that torture animals and then kills other kids at the age of 13?
Do we just give them a sticker and trophy?
The percentage of kids that torture animals and kill other kids is far less than the percentage of kids who eat animals and kill other kids.
But you see the point. As a nation of laws, sometimes we have to go beyond the age of the offender depending up on the crime the accused was alleged in committing.
I agree. Sorry I was being a little sarcastic.
(Goes back to frying ants with a magnifying glass)
No, you give them psychiatric help and evaluate them in the mental health community, not adult prison.
Human wiring is not complete until early 20's. It makes no sense to hold one responsible for the rest of their life for something they did when they were 13.
the Jonesboro school murderers, the worst school shooters to date, served several months with other juvies, and are out somewhere now, identities protected by the law.
What a crappy country we are. Arkansas should secceed.
At 17 I was a solider in the United States Army and responsible for myself. At 17 one should be acting like an adult and ready to accept adult responsibilities.
It's a cop out to say he was only 17 when he committed violent crimes so he shouldn't be held responsible. At 17 you know armed robbery is wrong, rape, assault. It's not like he was 10.
He wasn't sentenced to 95 years for a single crime. He was sentenced for a pattern of violent crimes.
No, because Dukakis was not directly involved in giving Horton a furlough. Huckleberry personally released this SOB.
With the information given, nobody, but nobody, would have issued a commutation. Yet a parol board recommended and a conservative governor approved clemency.
I don't believe we have all the information.
And demagoguery is far too easy in this arena. Every politician clamors to be seen as "law and order" and "tough on crime."
Yet, there are instances where those convicted even of such heinous crimes as gang rape, assault and attempted murder should be pardoned.
Our system has far too few avenues for the wrongfully accused or the over-punished to seek justice, and those avenues are all too often demonized.
He was waiting on Obama to do something.
Obama's dithering and middle course action in both cases cost men and women in uniform their lives.
... because he came to jesus.
That's real pure. Just what the whole world needs more of, stern refusal to be distracted by cases when wholesale rules can be applied over the phone. Thanks for hinting. You for governor.
there will be pics of the Huckster riding in a tank...
I'd settle for a picture of him actually serving as a paator.
Now...there's a rare shot.
However, I do have a 8x10 of the Huckster decked out in cammo with his dog sitting next to him as they hunt for ducks.
Sadly, you can't see the gun in the pic, it's tight shot that was used as some sort of promo deal involving hunting in Arkansas while he was governor.
He was sentenced at age 18, but the crime was at age 17 if what I read was correct.
Clemmons said he was Jesus. Maybe Huck thought, if I spring Jesus maybe he can do something for me.
It's not like Huck is stupid, he knows opportunity when he sees it.
Don't even try to explain Rev. You commute the sentence of a repeat violent offender(who is black) who executes four police officers(all white, with children and families). The Klan may fire bomb his home.
Watch Fox put a (D) next to this Jethro's name.
like Wayne Dumond.
...to that fact. They'll get all O.Jayed up about only what their simple asses can see.
You know it's bad when right wing nutjob Michelle Malkin has her lead story about Maurice Clemmons and the fact that Mike Huckabee granted him clemency. This will be his Willie Horton and should torpedo any presidential aspirations he may have. He's trying to shift blame for his actions by stating there is a problem in the court systems in Arkansas and Washington. That is true, but he played a big role in letting this man go free.
Still, did anyone stop to wonder why the judge associated with the case, Kitty-Ann van Doorninck would even allow bail in his latest charges? Crazy.
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system. As Arkansas had. and then let him go. then rearrested. Then didn't refile charges.
He was in jail in pierce co for assault and 2nd degree rape of a child. He posted bail. According to the constitution, he can't be held after that. So vis a vis Washington v Clemmons, no problem in the court system. It's all to do with Jethro Huckabee, granting clemency to violent offenders, instead of a bunch of pot smokers, drug addicts and prostitutes.
Oh c'mon. Pastor Hagee has to have some kind of halfway house program to strip the sins of the commutation devil from the soul of Mike Dumbfuckabee.
He will be renewed!!!
does anyone else note the irony of huckabee being railed upon by the left for basically having a liberal clemency policy?
the u.s. does have 25% of the entire world's prison population you know.
land of the free indeed...
was reserved for violent offenders who could pretend real good that they found Jesus and rake leaves in the guv's yard.
I see complaints about how said policy was implemented. Most comments have been more like "Why release a violent repeat offender as opposed to a non-violent victimless offender" than you're strawman postulation.
To sum up, the complaint is not that he granted clemency with a liberal hand, it's that he had his head up is arse while determining which convicts deserved it.
Especially those in there for victimless crimes, like pot. But we get a story like this and it makes everybody afraid tto appear to be "soft on crime."
Shame, really.
Run up debt/deficit to scare the masses about running it up more for economic recovery/social safety nets...
Let out violent offenders who's only sign of rehabilitation is their "Love of teh Lord" so that when they repeat offend the masses become more scared of prison/corrections reform.
I could go on, but I just got a new beanie that needs a tinfoil lining...
It is a great tragedy, and I cannot even imagine what the families of the four officers are going through. Still, there are times when a pardon / clemency is warranted, and though it looks like the wrong person was granted one in this case, (and Huckabee is being a huge dick blaming others for this) pardons & clemency are still important avenues for righting injustice that occur in the legal system. I would hate to see this case being used to roll back this option.
Sorry for the double post but...
Seems to me there is quite a bit of difference between graning clemency to small time offenders (such as possession of small amounts of drugs and no history of violence) versus clemency for convicts doing hard time for burglary and violent acts.
Do I REALLY need to ask the infamous "Dukakis" question. Naah. There's enough hypocrisy and demagoguery going on all ready.
Do you agree that Dukakis was correctly criticized for his actions as Governor as they related to Willie Horton?
Am I against those types of release programs. No.
Was Dukakis DIRECTLY involved in the release of Willie Horton? No.
Dukakis had no part in giving Horton a furlough, and in fact had tried to end it for prisoners sentenced to life. Huckleberry personally signed the clemency paperwork for this SOB. What part of that distinction do you not understand?
Stop bein' so hard on ole Mike.
It's not like he was caught wearin' a diaper with a hooker or hikin' the Appalachian trail.
this was supposed to be a response... moving to appropriate place.
I am a great admirer of C&L, and have followed your insightful and informative political clips and analyses for several years (it was one of those websites that helped preserve sanity for me during the insane/criminal Bushco years.
However, the analysis in this article somehow falls off the mark. I would, honestly, much rather have a politician (even, gasp, Republican, if need be) who exhibits a degree of humane concern regarding defendants in an inherently flawed justice system, and err in favor of the human potential for good, than one that has "seen the light," or has been "born again," or some such abject nonsense, who with complete certitude sends human beings to the death chamber, and even celebrates such acts of barbarity (the former WH resident being the best example of such derangement). The same upholder of phony piety (the malevolent erstwhile WH resident) gladly butchered hundreds of thousands of innocent human beings using, conveniently, hired killers to assuage his murderous impulses. Governor George Ryan (a Republican) earned my respect when he placed a moratorium on death penalties in Illinois in the 1990s.
We know full well how the party of Christian, moral toughness (read that as the will to maim and kill whoever that does not conform to its views, oddly in complete circumvention of what Christ stood for) manipulated the Willy Horton case politically to its advantage in 1988, by painting Michael Dukakis as "weak" on crime and criminals. This is a truly dangerous road to travel. Let's face it- if using racist/biased images for clever political advantage is bad when the Right-Wing uses it- it should be bad for progressives and liberals as well.
I do not support Mike Huckabee because I am opposed to narrow, conservative views that lead to racism, classism, and exclusivism (not to mention ignorance and arrogance). However, how he chose to offer clemency to certain convicts is not something I am prepared to condemn him for. We simply do not need to bring back the Willy Horton "horror" show.
Thank you hugely for those comments. My sentiments exactly. Her's a piece of info to add to the Willy Horton mythology. It is true that Dukakis was blamed for signing a bill that provided early release for some offenders. Horton reoffended. However, the first bill of that kind signed in the nation was signed two years prior to Dukakis signing his. It was signed by the then-governor of California, Ronald Reagan. It is just so interesting how that stories that have no real meaning or significance get legs.
Under the tenets of the MA. program...the governor was not DIRECTLY involved in the selection and release of the prisoners chosen.
Huckabee WAS. He was presented with this SPECIFIC individual and signed off on his release.
yourself in the context of complaining about hypocrisy?
Perhaps you need to READ.
Why did I invoke the comparison. Because the Dukakis episode was demagogued all over the place by the right, when there was NO direct connection between Willie Horton and Dukakis. A connection which DOES exist between Huckabee and this fello.
I know it's hard to understand the subtleties involved here, but do try.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9KMSSEZ0Y&fe...
Find a factual flaw.
... I'd bet that Horton's skin has been shaded darker.
Just a wild guess.
darker, screen shots with nostrils flared, agitated, etc ad nauseum
second time in a month up here in WA that the cops will have some regional-show-of-force with cops from every jurisdiction paying absurdly public respects, 4-hours of closed off major arterials in mid-day, flags half-mast, blah blah blah
operating a store in downtown Seattle, i can say, people resent that whole "The Departed" 'band of brothers' bullsh*t that surrounds these funerals; it makes 'em angry.... people die every day in tragic circumstances at the hands of evil muthaf*kas, and yes, sometimes those evil dudes ARE the po-lice
Police are the bastion of upholding laws in this ridiculous upside-down world we live in, and i abhor violence in any manner, but as many as not would say
F* the Police
what have they done for me, ever?
I'm laughing my ass off right now. I'd explain why, but you wouldn't get it.
Tell you what, contact the SPD and ask to go on a ride along on the grave patrol in the area that your store is in. See what goes on around your precious source of income while you're safe in bed. Watch a few domestic dispute calls, see what happens when a drunk isn't stopped in time, then come back and tell me that the police have never done anything for you.
Do that, or swear here and now that you will NEVER under any circumstances dial 911.
i said you're not well-liked, and as a former police officer, frankly, you know better than most why not
ask any person of color what their experiences have been at the hands of po-lice. Ask. Any.
The factual flaw is that Dukakis did not DIRECTLY release Willie Horton.
Huckabee SIGNED the commutation of this individual directly.
That little fact seems to escape you.
Mike Dukakis did NOT approve each or any of the weekend furloughs given to Willie Horton, a convicted first degree murderer serving life without parole.
Mike Dukakis did VETO a bill which would have outlawed giving furloughs to convicted murderers after it was approved by the Mass. Legislature and defended giving furloughs to those serving life without parole.
Huckabee approved a commutation in the two 30 year sentences committed by a seventeen year old in a single act but which were ordered to be served consecutively by the judge. In that single act he robbed an unoccupied house and stole property. No violence is alleged to have occured nor were weapons involved. The commutation made him eligible for parole as if he had been sentenced to concurrent thirty year terms based on the eleven years he had been in prison.
In both cases a person convicted of a crime was able
to get out of prison. Their release was directly approved by others, but made possible due to direct actions by Governors of the state.
Is always a judgment call.
Thanks for your kind remarks. There is obviously no consolation for victims of violent crime. However, granting clemency will always be a judgment call. Psychological profiles are unreliable and unpredictable (on a lighter note, recall how the deranged Dreyfus was ready to be released after "rehab", time after time, in the Pink Panther series).
Clemency (like kindness) is one of the nobler human virtues. That such acts may become subject to minor or gross abuse should not become a reason for their rejection, or ridicule for their practitioner. Ganging up on Mike Huckabee for a possible misjudgment takes much away from the outrage of the racist exploitation of Willy Horton.
who was a violent offender. He was governor of a state that passed a law allowing furloughs.
Huckabee's criteria appears to have been:
Claiming to have found 'The Lord;'
Doing yard work at the governor's residence fairly well.
Look at the mess another of Huckabee's projects created.
A lot of people are doing time who should not be there. But in granting clemency, 'finding Jesus' in prison isn't really a great reason. The guy could just be talking about some Latino dude he ran across in the yard.
"one that has "seen the light," or has been "born again," or some such abject nonsense, who with complete certitude sends human beings to the death chamber, and even celebrates such acts of barbarity"
-- Blaise Pascal
"I'm doing the same thing Herzfeld, Jegley and others have done – using my judgment."
And THAT is exactly the problem Gov. Huckabee - your judgement.
Of course it would be a GOPher that gives compassion a bad name - almost too perfect.
only go to prove how easy it is to err factually.
I've seen conflicting comments, but Huckabee's actions in this particular case from all I have read were very appropriate. Of the 12 violent offenders he pardoned, only 9% have re-offended. That's a hell of a good track record compared to other guys who are let out of prison when their time is up. This guy was sentenced to 95 years for a crime committed at 17. The US is virtually the only country in the world to sentence children to LIFE. If you want to debate whether 95 years equals life, have at it.
The system let him fall through the cracks after he was released. He's re-offended and managed to spring himself out. "bad paperwork"? That's not the fault of a guy who issued clemency. We need a lot more of that, not less. We need a penal system that doesn't make them meaner while they are incarcerated. We need an economic system that doesn't discriminate against ex offenders. We need to assist them in getting housing and jobs after they're released. What we have right now is a disaster and pointing to Huckabee as the problem is a joke.
That means he's pretty much a wanker. Jesus or not, if a judge or jury saw it fit to put this man away for nearly life, that might have something to do with the crimes he committed and could possibly commit again in the future — not the economic system.
...I have zero sympathy for these judgemental right wing hypocrites who would be tarring and feathering a prospective Democratic Presidential candidate involved in such a horrific circumstance.
If this was a liberal, this story would go on for months.
The reich-wing hypocrisy is thick enough to cut with a knife.
BID
1) Is the MSM hypocritical in the way they treat politicians from the right and left. Yes. No question.
2) Was what Huckabee did wrong? On that one I don't know enough to say for sure. I do think its possible to make a legitimate pardon even if the person you pardon ends up committing a crime. There is no question in my mind that more people should be pardoned and that an unfortunate side effect of pardoning people is that .01% of them will still turn out to be scum bags. What I don't understand is why the Huckster pardoned this guy in the first place? It doesn't seem at all consistent with his core values or something that would pander to his base.
and there needs to be a true effort at humanising the treatment prisoners receive.
That said, Huckabee's judgment on this was bad. Really bad. and 6 people are dead because of his shitty calls. If you were a member of the impacted families, I think your post would read much differently. If he hadn't commuted the guy's sentence in the first place, bad paperwork would have never figured into his RE-release.
I think she thinks this means we are one step closer to a celebrity Independent challenge to Obama in 2012. Beck-Dobbs, Palin-Beck, etc. Huck's end means that the only thing standing between a mainstream GOP candidate and a wingnut Independent ticket is Mitt Romney (and maybe Lindsey Graham).
I think Huckabee is a right wing religious extremist, whose positions I would probably never favor. That said, this case is tricky. I think trying to nail Huckabee about granting clemency to a black inmate is something that's like a slippery slope. Progressives I would think would want to have minorities spend less time in prison as they often serve harsher sentences than similarly convicted white persons. It is obvious that Huckabee made a mistake in judgement in this particular case, causing such a dreadful loss of 4 men with families, but I am not sure this is a case where Huckabee is to be faulted-at least politically-his all around judgement yes.
Progressives I would think would want to have minorities spend less time in prison as they often serve harsher sentences than similarly convicted white persons.
Yes, but only non-violent drug offenders. We don't want blacks to serve more prison time for drug possession, for example. We want violent criminals locked up as long as possible. We are not lenient on violent crime. We live on the same streets yo do.
After submitting my comment-I realized that what I was saying was not going to be taken well. I think you're definitely right about that, and I meant to emphasize that Huckabee really made a bad mistake here.
Mike Willie Horton Huckabee.
Does this mean that Beck's odds of being Palin's vice president have improved?
Beck's stock is way up today
My odds...
Beck as Palin's running mate - 1000 to 1
Beck loses bladder control while having a crying fit on camera - 100 to 1
Beck has a psychotic episode on camera - Even money
Somewhere the cons managed to get 193% in a poll so . . .
One less turd in the toilet.
..a floater.
The Hucker certainly got some money for that.
..it's still not half as bad as Rumsfeld's decision which let Osama bin Laden go. How much do you want to bet that this story buries the much bigger OBL one in the LameStream Media?
...find the facts that prove OBL actually did 9-11. There was never an indictment, and woner why? Lost in the "let him go" story are the so-called facts of the case against him. Could OBL have been put in front of a criminal court in New York and convicted, without facts?
Not that I hold Rumsfeld blameless for much; he's the guy that got Aspertame, an insecticide, approved by the FDA for human consumption. How many of you, my beloved fellow readers, are sipping a diet soda right now? Or diabetic and depending on this poison to have some semblence of an enjoyable diet?
Okay, now back to the topic. Recidivism is a fact. A large percentage of released felons re-offend within three years. Our system should be addressing THIS problem!
Ah yes. I wish the authorities would have a talk with him and the rest of the henchmen.
If a judge is threatened by a defendant they have to recuse themselves? I know what my strategy would be if I were facing a death penalty. I'd threaten every judge I was brought before until they ran out of judges.
They wanted to show that the judge would be biased in sentencing Clemmons.
It was never meant to hold up.
SUCKS.
... but don't the premises of this discussion include that Maurice Clemens is guilty of the murder of four police officers?
How do we know this? Forget about a trial (or even an indictment), does anyone even know what happened at the scene?
We are echoing right wing memes with very little information.
Clemmons hasn't been found guilty. However, the fact remains that he's still has committed crimes and is the lead suspect in another, doesn't change the fact that Huckabee let a violent offender get out of prison.
... and I'm looking at four police officers slain in a coffee house, then my hunch is a drug deal gone bad and an accompanying search for the nearest black guy with a record and no alibi to hang it on.
Hey, as long as we're reaching conclusions before the proof is presented, maybe I can fit Wonder Woman into the scenario. Something about that golden lasso.... :)
up in a meth and marijuana forest in Kentucky with "Fed" scratched on his body. Then we can really speculate it was all Michelle Bachmann's fault.
Slow down princess...
I wasn't even referencing the crime at the coffee shop, but rather the crimes that they know he committed.
"Clemmons' criminal history includes at least five felony convictions in Arkansas and at least eight felony charges in Washington.
"Clemmons had been in jail in Pierce County for the past several months on a pending charge of second-degree rape of a child. He was released from custody just six days ago, even though was staring at seven additional felony charges in Washington state."
From the Seattle Times article.
... it's nice to be flattered.
But don't all those intervening crimes really negate Hucckabee's pardon? I mean, how is it Huckabees fault if this guy's been in the system multiple times since the commutation?
You know? I don't know.
I think it's the whole guilt by association that plays off the hypothetical: If X never happened, then Y wouldn't take place.
I dislike hypothetical situations.
Life is life, and fate would have dealt the same kind of cards, but with different players at the table.
he would not have had the chance to reoffend.
If you let a brutal guy out of prison because he claims to have changed, then it turns out he hasn't, it's all on you.
Arkansas was negligent. Washington was working on it, but had to follow the law. His crimes didn't warrant remand. He had to be given bail. I think he was in jail for a couple of months before he raised the 10% ($15k). He cut off a GPS tracking bracelet.
Ya just can't lay hands on a guy and ship him off to an island pri--oh wait. If he had been turned in as a Muslim extremist...
The cops were on duty (Having driven their duty vehicles to the scene, and in uniform) but it was prior to the beginning of their shift. A barista reported that a man approached the cash register, she asked if she could help him, he sort of stared, then pulled his coat back, revealing a gun. She had been trained to leave the shop when that happened, which is what she and the other employee did.
The guy turned and shot two officers, the 3rd and 4th rose, he shot the third, then scuffled with the 4th. The 4th officer shot, then was shot by the door. None of the other customers in the restaurant was targeted, according to accounts.
... and unfortunately, it's probably not a golden lasso.
Who goes after four uniformed cops for a coffee shop cash register? It doesn't fit.
[edit] Just caught your comment below. Why did he want to kill four cops?
It reads like the guy was on the verge of a mental breakdown.
Claimed he could fly and that he was Jesus. Go figure.
He was under arrest for assaulting a deputy or two, and he had [allegedly] assaulted a neighbour who was a retired cop. I think his business had failed, too.
to ask if Clemmons aided in the alleged attack by Glenn Beck and was encouraged to go on his 1989 spree because Willie Horton got 10 furloughs.
coincidentally, Clemmons has been reported to have a bullet wound in his torso by persons who were arrested for rendering aid to him. Also, the coffee shop, owned by a former police officer, had a surveillance camera pointing at the cash register, which the shooter walked up to before he turned and fired. So I believe they have a picture of him, which they started showing around yesterday afternoon.
Now I'm not saying he is guilty of the crime of murder, but it seems there might be a preponderance of evidence there, as opposed to a pile of circumstantial stuff.
Didn't know that.
But who robs a cop's coffee shop with four cops in it?
Curiouser and curiouser....
he was there to kill the cops.
...he was there to commit suicide-by-cop, and then changed his mind once the bullets started flying.
Facts. He shot four cops. In front of witnesses.
Motive is irrelevant as far as guilt is going to be concerned. It will only matter in terms of sentencing (ie insanity defense, jealous rage, love tryst).
This guy is going back to the slammer. The four cops are going to the cemetary. Huckabee is going to political limbo.
Huckabee got off easy.
Plus it was premeditated. I hope they give this bastard the needle.
WA State has the death penalty, but it is very rarely used -- the state has executed four people since 1976 and has 10 people on death row.
This is going to be a capital case.
take you seriously on the subject when you don't even know how to spell the guy's name? If you've read or even watched anything about it, you'd know his name is Clemmons. Typos are one thing. What you did only showed that you don't know what you're talking about, which means you just spew your nonsense without even being informed about the subject at hand. Typical Con.
And isn't it funny how the Cons are all for "innocent until proven guilty" when the situation makes them look bad but all other times they just want to throw the people under the jail without so much as being charged.
Hypocrites, every last one of 'em.
Please stop it with that nonsense. He's just not as up on this as ms_kitty, who, iirc, lives in the Sea-Tac area. fiver was probably too busy worryin' 'bout the Bears to have been up on this earlier.
Who are you to tell me to stop anything? IIRC, you're no one to me so pipe down.
Mike Huckabee: Soft on rape TWICE (that we know of), soft on animal torture-killing ONCE (that we know of).
Poor Mister Huckabee. It was supposed to release a threat upon the populace, not the police! Sheeit, now everybody's gonna be talkin about it.
Huckabee/Palin/Palin/Huckabee 2012
She can shoot the squirrels from a helicopter and he can fry em up in the popcorn popper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj3QAzSWVA4
After reading the Perr post I think the main problem is the intermingling of church and state in decision-making. It seems as if then Governor Huckabee was more open to making positive decisons on issues related to commutations and parole when recommended by ministers and those with whom he had personal relatioonships.
of prison. Several other violent criminals and murderers have gone on to kill again. It is not clear on why Huckabee granted so many clemency especially violent offenders.
To understand just how excessive Huckabee's clemencies were see:
http://www.arkansasleader.com/frontstories/st...
To error is human,
To forgive Divine?
Good link.
Obviously, Gov. Huckabee is another example of a Republican who doesn't really know how to govern.
... that damages this corpulent, squirrel-eating, Bible-thumping idiot.
I'm sure he gets all worked up about marijuana and gays getting married, but doesn't bat an eye about releasing an incorrigible rapist/murderer.
Another typical GOP hypocrite. Oh, to cleanse the earth of them!
BID
This is off topic but, that guy looks like the Geoffrey Owens who played Elden on the Cosby show! Creepy!
Our justice system is not sophisticated enough to diagnose Clemmons' obvious psychiatric, antisocial problems and treat them appropriatley in a locked facility. Huckabee apparently has no grasp of the mental illnesses these violent offenders suffer from. I find it difficult to believe that any competent mental health practitioner would have spent any time with him (Clemmons, not Huckabee) and then recommend that he be released into the community. But I must admit I don't have all the facts.
The only good thing I see out of this is that Huckabee will hopefully take the flack (deserved or not) and will not be a contender for higher political office. I generally look upon many law enforcement officers with at least a fair amount of disdain. But what happened to these people is just tragic.
My brother and my best friend are cockeyed, and I love them both dearly, but they will do unexplainable things, from time-to-time. I don't mean this as a joke. I've seen Huckabee say things on occasion that had no rhyme or reason and I just wonder if there aren't some wires crossed.
clamouring to tell everyone to have compassion for violent offenders, now matter how much it may come back to bite us in the butt.
In the DuMond case, Huckabee dismissed the thoughts and input of the young woman whose rape sent DuMond to prison in the first place, even after she got in his face and told him that's how close DuMond was to her the entire time he was raping her, and how she will never forget his face. Despite Ms. Stevens' best efforts, two women wound up dead at DuMond's hands because Huckabee didn't give a shit what she had to say. Her perspective as a survivor of a violent crime at DuMond's hands simply got in the way of what he wanted to do.
I am a rape survivor myself, and I also have the experience of knowing what is like to know that due to the way the justice system works you must share a space with someone else's rapist (in this case a college classroom), and to also know that that girl did not survive her gang rape, and that this person in the room with you was convicted as a juvenile of raping this girl you've never met, and as an accessory to murder. I eventually dropped the class I was taking, and out of school for the semester because it was too much of an emotional strain to even be in the room with that goddamned animal.
I realize that some of these people have to get out of prison at some point and that they have some rights too and those rights must be balanced with those of the rest of us, but I'll be damned if I'm going to have "compassion" for them, unless they were actually wrongly convicted. No one seems to be asking for compassion for the post-release victims of the people that Huckabee's released. Or for victims in crime in general. I should be able to sit in a college classroom and have a basic sense of safety, as I have broken no laws. The women that are dead at DuMond's hands had a right to be safe in their own home without being raped and murdered in their own home by an animal. They broke no laws that I know of either. And if Clemmons was responsible for the deaths of these four police officers, then they had a right to be doing their paperwork in a nice coffee shop without being gunned down execution style. They broke no laws either that I know of.
And you best believe that I hold Huckabee reponsible for his actions!
Huckabee defended himself on O'Reilly tonight:
http://www.gotchamediablog.com/2009/11/huckabee-defends-himself-on-oreilly.html
he claimed bail was 15,000. It was 150,000. He also failed to mention that Arkansas had a no bail hold on the guy, which they inexplicably rescinded. They were contacted and asked if they were sure. Yes. They rescinded that. So apparently in addition to a fact free zone, it's oreilly's law free zone, where someone is wrong for not holding a guy in violation of his rights.
... is that we use our prisons as mental health institutions. We fund prisons, see, and do not fund mental health instutitions. So sometimes when law enforcement runs into someone who is truly miswired they throw the book at him or her in a bid to keep them off of the streets. When he was a kid this guy attacked the judge, a prison guard and an attorney at different times. It was pretty clearly abnormal behavior so the judge "threw the book" at him for relatively midgrade crimes. Eleven years later Huckabee reviews it (with a belief that the Clinton's justice was too harsh) and decides to commute the sentence.
Fast forward to this year. The guy flips out, thinks he is Jesus and orders his family and friends to strip. When police come, he attacks them. He also throws rocks through passing cars and neighbor's windows. As far as has been reported, there was no criminal motive -- just a guy whose brain was not functioning properly. Seattle police decide to put him inside on the largest charge that can stick, so they charge him with child rape. He gets interviewed by the prison psychologist who does what they always do and decides that the guy is fit for trial. This makes him eligible for bail, which the judge sets at a pretty standard $110,000. Much to everybody's surprise this guy who mows lawns makes bail. (He has a family that is over committed to him, many are allegedly committing crimes right now to keep him on the run.)
The criminal system is designed to deal with rational people, it is not supposed to be a warehouse for the insane. As soon as a guy announces that he is Jesus and strips off you ought to be able to put him in a place where he will be cared for, and that he will not be a threat to himself or others. You need to rely upon the judgement of professionals as to when or if this guy can rejoin society -- not lawyers whose expertiese is in a different area.
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