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You can't go wrong doing the opposite of almost anything Sen. Saxby "Toy Soldier" Chambliss, the man who specializes in smearing real soldiers like Max Cleland, proposes. And Dianne Feinstein, the woman who's never met a war or black-box op she didn't like? Rep. Jim McGovern, on the other hand, is a rare voice of reason:

A roundtable discussion on Afghanistan strategy from This Week with George Stephanopoulous:

STEPHANOPOULOS:There's a report in Newsweek this morning -- it's actually on the cover of Newsweek, where the vice president is pointing out that this year we're going to spend about $65 billion in Afghanistan, about $2.25 billion in Pakistan. And according to the report in Newsweek, this is what the vice president went on to say in the National Security Council meeting: "By my calculations, that's a 30-to-1 ratio in favor of Afghanistan. So I have a question: Al Qaida is almost all in Pakistan, and Pakistan has nuclear weapons. And yet for every dollar we're spending in Pakistan, we're spending $30 in Afghanistan. Does that make strategic sense?"

What's the answer?

FEINSTEIN: Well, this whole situation is a bit of a conundrum. I basically agree with Senator Chambliss in what he said. I think reconciliation -- the first thing has to be to stop the violence. It has to be security. The Taliban has to know it cannot take over all of Afghanistan because the next step in Pakistan. And that's very serious.

And the Pakistanis are only recently beginning to show, I think, their mettle. I think Swat was a big wake-up call for them. I listened to the Pakistani foreign minister yesterday, and they -- they seemed to have much more get-up-and-go, to really be -- be able to work with us in securing some of the FATA areas and other -- other areas. So I think that -- that's really critical.

This is not an easy situation. Nothing is straightforward. Our allies have 39,000 troops. That's a lot of people over there. They, I gather, will continue their involvement on that level. I think we ought to press for them to increase it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's not going to happen.

FEINSTEIN: I think obviously -- I know it's not, but financially, we ought to have more financing from the rest of the world community. We cannot be everyone's gatekeeper, everyone's policeman, and I think what's lacking in the world is some universality of putting together movements which can change the dynamics in difficult situations.

STEPHANOPOULOS: General Keane, what do we do now in Pakistan? Three major attacks in the last week. Yesterday, the most brazen attack yet, the insurgents take over their army headquarters. It would be like coming in to the Pentagon. And how do you see the interrelationship between putting more troops in Afghanistan and putting more pressure on the situation in -- in Pakistan?

KEANE: Yes, the elephant in the room with Pakistan -- and, also, to a certain degree, with Afghanistan -- has always been, their lack of understanding that we're going to stay in that region. They -- they're not sure we are.

And -- and given our track record in Afghanistan and also in Pakistan, there's reason for that skepticism. That's why Musharraf and this regime to this day has a hedging strategy with the Taliban. We have to convince them that we're there, that Pakistan's stability is in our national interest. And we also have to prove that, as well, by stabilizing Afghanistan.

I agree with the senators. If we ever lost in Afghanistan, that contributes directly to destabilizing Pakistan. So our actions in Afghanistan relate clearly to Pakistan.

KEANE: The other thing, to get specifically to your point, we're starting to make some headway with Kiyani and the generals in Pakistan, to pull forces away from the Indian front, so to speak. We have great difficulty convincing them that the major threat to the nation-state is, in fact, the ranging insurgency inside the nation- state and not the external threat of India. To us, it's self-evident, but to them it's not.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It's not.

KEANE: And that's the reality of it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We're just about out of time. I want to go once around the table with this question: What's the one thing you want President Obama to have in mind as he makes these decisions?

CHAMBLISS: Our troops and the stability of our troops and -- and the fact that we're giving our troops what they need. And I mean, from the top down, we've got to make a decision from the leadership standpoint whether we're giving more troops, but we've still got to make that commitment of making sure that we're enforcing and reinforcing them like we need to.

MCGOVERN: I would urge them to keep in mind that stabilizing Afghanistan should not mean and does not mean enlarging our military footprint there. I think it would be counterproductive.

I also think we're going bankrupt. We have wars in Iraq, in Afghanistan, hundreds of billions of dollars that are all going on to our credit card. Our kids and our grandkids are paying for this. You know, we need to be smarter about where we deploy our -- our resources. And I think enlarging our military footprint in Afghanistan would be a mistake.

We need to come up with a strategy that includes an exit strategy because it'll also put pressure on the government of Afghanistan to step up to the plate, which it has not done so far.



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25 comments

We all know that all the money spent in Iraq astan has been a waste.
If we had not of fucked up and attacked people that had nothing to do with attacking us.
republicanism is a mental illness@!

)O(

I think what we need is something along the lines of a NATO/EU just for those in the ME region.

Hmmm...I haven't had Alpha-Bits cereal in years.

[Comment Deleted By Administration For Violation Of Terms Of Service]

What the hell world does McGovern live in?

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WHO WAGS THIS TAIL?

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)O(
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I don't think an "exit strategy" will help goose Afghanistan's government into action, since outside of Kabul there is no Afghan government, and the one in Kabul exists only to siphon US tax dollars into the pocketses of the Karzai family/Northern Alliance Warlords. Moreover, there hasn't been a functioning government in Afghanistan in 30 years, it seems a bit fanciful to expect it will take any less time than that to get one going again.

Here's the exit strategy I propose: Get all the troops, US and NATO, drive 'em to the airport, put 'em on planes, and fly them home. Let them sort their own government out.

We didn't break it any more than it was already broken, we don't need to "fix" it any more.

.

ONE TRILLION DOLLARS SPENT in 8 years...
... TWO YEARS LESS THAN WHAT SINGLE PAYER WOULD COST.

And that's not even tallying the money through appropriations.

IMAGINE THE LIVES SAVED in the last 8 years, instead.

45 THOUSAND A YEAR DIE TO NO HEATH CARE/INSURANCE.

CONGRESS,
DO THE MATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're killing us out here!

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Q U E S T I O N:

When we spend TRILLIONS on repairing a country we helped wreck, yet refuse to fix our own...
... Just what is the morality to the picture, then?

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There is absolutely no morality to this course of action.

Al Qaida is going to furrow into whatever hole is open for it in the Middle East. We are trying to turn several mideastern, non-Christian states into western style democracies hoping that will keep the crazies in hand. Well, it won't happen. Let the people there take care of their own in their hopped up fantasies. (As I understand it, cocaine and pot are the staples of society for much of the region.)

My feeling is we will have as much luck containing the enemy with the retaliatory rocket blasts as we do with tens of thousands of soldiers sitting out there as target practice for the enemy, and billions of dolars spent replacing humvee after humvee.

No, actually coke and pot are staples in this country. Afghanistan just sells it to us.

This is Ray McGovern who is asking:

Why is not published the NIE stimate on Afgahanistan?

He Smells something have been hiden from the public:

http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com...

..Before sending more troops....

...this guy is of the opinion we can reassure Pakistan and guarantee stability (whatever "stability" means, in this sense, it means propping up dictatorships and corrupt governments) by STAYING in the region. The opposite is true, no one wants to see us stay in Afghanistan, the Pakistani's are merely playing along with us so we keep sending them money, they play this country as fools because that is what we act like. So the Generals ask for more troops, and say there is no battle they cannot win.

They dont know when they are outclassed, and they dont know when they are not liked by civilians, and they sure as hell dont understand Afghanistan's past.

Doesn't that all depend on how often eating at the mess causes botulism?

FEINSTEIN: "Well, this whole situation is a bit of a conundrum."

A conundrum? A BIT? Ya THINK? I think of it more as a shit sandwich dipped in more shit and covered with more. But I guess from your plush offices and comfy homes it's a bit of a conundrum.

Sometimes these profiteering war mongers let slip their true colors.

The tragedy of Afghanistan continues as the valiant and courageous Afghan freedom fighters persevere in standing up against the brutal power of the Soviet invasion and occupation. The Afghan people are struggling to reclaim their freedom, which was taken from them when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in December of 1979.

In this three-year period the Soviet Union has been unable to subjugate Afghanistan. The Soviet forces are pitted against an extraordinary people who, in their determination to preserve the character of their ancient land, have organized an effective and still spreading country-wide resistance. The resistance of the Afghan freedom fighters is an example to all the world of the invincibility of the ideals we in this country hold most dear, the ideals of freedom and independence.

(Proclamation 5034, 1983 by St. Reagan)

The other irony is that Proclamation 5033 (issued the same day) deals with blindness.

Anyone who maintains that we can "win" in Afghanistan should have to strap on a helmet, pick up a gun, go over, and fight those people.

Afghanistan is the graveyard of empires. It isn't a state in any sense that we understand statehood. It's Kabul surrounded by a hostile, mountainous hell. The Bush administration botched this war from the time we had Bin Laden bottled up in the caves of Tora Bora. Bush and Cheney were more attracted by the playbook of the Project for A New American Century. Far from leaving, America would STAY, using Iraq as a "friendly" base of operations from which we could protect American interests and project American power.

The reality of PNAC's plan ran head-on into the reality on the ground in the region: They don't want us there. I think we should define the mission this way: We leave only enough troops to patrol the border with Pakistan. We spend the money for intelligence, infrastructure, and security for our troops while they hunt Al Qaeda's leadership. That's why we're there. Kill or capture them, declare "mission accomplished," and leave with our heads held high and--most importantly--with the respect of the people of the world for finally accomplishing what it agreed that we had the right to do by international law.

Look up PNAC and see who's involved. Then, take a look at who's pushing a deeper involvement in Afghanistan. You'll find the gang of usual suspects in both places. It's time to rein in their influence and fix what's wrong here in America.

I'm glad to see that Feinstein mentioned that "This is not an easy Our allies have 39,000 troops" in Afghanistan.

I think the question of international troop support is often overlooked in this debate. Just as America debates the future of the Afghan mission, NATO countries are asking the same questions and looking for direction, leadership, and a clear policy.

Afghanistan will never be reconstructed by the efforts of one nation. Unlike Iraq, this is America's opportunity to truly rally a coalition of the willing.

Here is a link to an interactive Google map on Afghanistan; NATO troop levels, mission outlines for each county, and fatalities. It will be interesting to see how these numbers change in a year.

http://******/10K8c8

post the full URL for the link to work. Please do so. I'd like to see it.

This thought may be out of vogue - but how about letting the Afghanis determine their own future?

[Deleted. Do not post in ALL CAPS. Feel free to repost your thoughts in sentence case-Sitemonutor]

There is no Government in Afghanistan; Kasai only has control of a small part and War sic Drug Lords control the rest.

Dianne is soooo right.
If Afghanistan falls, the next domino will be Pakistan.
The next one will be Uzbekistan, followed by Stan Musial, followed by Stan Kenton, followed by Frammestan, followed by Hoopydoopystan, followed by every single Stan there has ever been - all marching lock step just to f-ck us up.

25 comments

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