Democratic Dissenters Have Problems With Spending Bill -- and They're Not All Blue Dogs
By Susie Madrak Tuesday Mar 10, 2009 9:30amThese are some legitimate concerns, and it will be difficult to hammer out a consensus on some of them - especially the proposal to "means test" Medicare drug benefits. This will be a real rest of Reid's and Pelosi's leadership:
Democratic leaders in Congress did not expect much Republican support as they pressed President Obama's ambitious legislative agenda. But the pushback they are receiving from some of their own has come as an unwelcome surprise.
As the Senate inches closer to approving a $410 billion spending bill, the internal revolt has served as a warning to party leaders pursuing Obama's far-reaching plans for health-care, energy and education reform.
Those goals, spelled out in Obama's 2010 budget blueprint, continue to enjoy broad Democratic support. But as the ideas develop into detailed legislation, they will transform from abstract objectives into a tangle of difficult trade-offs. Crop subsidies, the student loan program and Medicare radiology rules are all currently niche concerns, but any one could become the next crisis for party leaders, with the potential to derail a major agenda item. One major proposal, to limit itemized deductions for wealthy taxpayers, has already raised doubts among prominent Democrats in both chambers.
Some issues that inflamed Democrats in previous years have yet to even register, including the proposal in Obama's budget plan to "means-test" the Medicare drug benefit as a way to pay for health-care reform. Doling out entitlement benefits based on income has long been anathema to most Democrats.
"There are a lot of items in the budget that would normally get a lot more attention, if we were in a normal year," said Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-Md.), who heads the House Democrats' fundraising arm. "They've been eclipsed by the tidal wave of the economy." But Van Hollen added: "They are waiting in the wings."
- Sen. Bob Menendez (D-NJ) was furious over a provision that would allow travel and imports to Cuba, saying that making such a major policy change in a spending bill was "undemocratic."
- Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NB) is upset about a provision that overhauls the student loan program and ends federal support for private lending. One of the major lenders is a company based in Nebraska, and Nelson says it will cost his state 1,000 jobs.
- Nelson also objects to changes Obama has proposed in the farm subsidy system that would stop direct payments to farms with annual sales of more than $500,000. Senate Budget Committee Chairman Kent Conrad (N.D.) also opposes it.
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I have issues with it too...it ain't friggin big enough!
While Rome burns.
Cuba? Get real.
Funneling tax dollars into private coffers? No one seems to bitch about that kind of corporate welfare.
The farm thing...I need to know more about that. A half a mil sounds like a ton of money but how much do they have to put out annually in seeds and stuff. I would rather see that on a net basis instead of gross before forming an opinion.
ED: Whoops...sorry, Lib...didn't mean this as a reply to you.
that's for sure.
was to support family owned farms with 'layout payments' that helped to replenish the land...Now, because of Congress, Billions have gone to the likes of Con-Agra et al. These big corp farmers desimated the small farms taking over them one by one in the lean years....THe repub's and Dem's allowed this.... They pay each year a subsidy to the Corporations and the family farms are dead or dying!
Additionally, these fools should get on with the Omnibus for 2009...which they dithered and did not get signed in a timely manner last year..This is Bush and the Democrats Bill---NOT OBAMA"S
REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT DOES NOT WRITE LEGISLATION__ IT IS THE SOLE REPONSIBILITY OF CONGRESS--RE: DITHERING AND FINGER POINTING---TRUTH TOLD__ IT IS THE AIDES TO CONGRESS THAT WRITE THE BILLS---BONEHER__NOT ONE OF US HAS READ THIS!!!!
the Democrats have crummy leadership. Maybe not as bad as the GOP, but it's bad.
Wanna know why? Because in politics today, the time of alpha personalities that you need in politics, also have "skeletons" that they don't want aired. Yeah, I know that today's mediocre politicians have "skeletons" but I liken it to children playing dress up.
Reid and Pelosi are light weights. Tip O'Neil would run rings around either of these two mental midgets.
then reid is an awesome leader, protecting the mining cartel, at america's expense
why would limiting itemized deductions for the wealthy be a problem for democrats?
If the people, now and past, have so many problems with taxes isn't that excessively indicative of the fact that the tax system is just too damned twisted? Why should someone have to get an accountant to do this shit?
I had an accountant who got me almost 3x the amount in refund that I had ever gotten in the past.
Then I got screwed on bad advice by both an atty and an acct.
I am not dissing either profession but honestly, the tax code is too complicated and sways in the favor of those who use an accountant. That is totally fucked up.
and our laws are OUTDATED.
any change to the pentagon budget? like slash it... and close hundreds of the imperial footprints...
howzabout legalizing and taxing pot?
what about increasing the tax on the top .001% to eisenhower levels?
what about shoring up tax loopholes for corporations?
revisiting our
freeexpensive trade deals?punitive taxes on companies that offshore labor.
raising the capital gains tax
tax breaks for companies that create domestic job
increased taxes on secondary residences
punitive and REAL gas guzzler tax
tax break on hybrid vehicles
tax deduction on residences that install solar panels
re-regulation on cable industry
elimination of de facto monopolization of regional cable
tax break on new vehicle purchases...capped at a vehicle price of $30,000
and yup, yup, yup, yup, yup....
and yup, yup
That's what Superman sez alrighty:
Yup...yup and away!!!
If the money was actually being spent on our troops - to have them kitted out properly and provide them with medical care should they be wounded - then I wouldn't be as worried.
Instead, the military budget seems to be full of shit like contracts for Blackwater and building police academies that have sewage dripping from the ceiling. And then we get horseshit like, "Well, you have to go into combat with the army you have, not the army you want."
Okay, fine. Cut the budget. Gates and Petraeus can spend the money they have, not the money they want. Treat 'em like the old joke about the goldfish bowl.
"Did you change the water?"
"Why? They haven't used what I gave 'em last week!"
the idea that we would contract out military security and services to private corporations is not only fiscally criminal, but also has made our economy even more dependent on war. not to mention the danger of propping of war profiteers with our tax money.
... part of the evidence against Bush, et al, as far as war crimes goes. You have troops that are not answerable to the military chain of command, can't be tried under the UCMJ. And they did their damnedest to keep the Iraqis from trying them in their courts.
From a security standpoint, it makes absolutely no sense. It's like handing you my house keys and putting you in charge of making sure my front door is locked when I leave the house. (Of course, the Bush Administration never demonstrated that they understood security at all. And some of the Democrats - yes, I'm looking at YOU, Senator Barbara 'Frequent Flier Security Line' Boxer - show the same lack of understanding.)
DECRIMINALIZE IT!
People should be able to just grow their own pot or buy it from a friend like they would any other herb like basil, oregano, thyme etc.
Cannabis sativa is a medicinal herb the same as any other.
I want the government to have NOTHING to do with cannabis. No taxes on pot!!!
Wacky Veggies...Wacky Seasonings...Wacky Salad
Wacky Veggies - Cannabis mixed with pre cut vegetables in convenient bags
Wacky Seasonings - self explanatory...the Rolled Gold Oregano is gonna go like gangbusters!
Wacky Salad - cannabis salads in convenient bags
I've already patented my line of cigarettes and tobaccos.
Wacky Tobaccy of course.
congratulations !youll have to do it with shovel ready ground useing chinese made shovels picks and backhoes hand trowels garden tillers ect ect! bhon ahpitite!smoke em if yah got em!
but i still think that it should be regulated and taxed
We could put a big dent in the deficit.
if the government makes no money off it, they don't have much incentive to make it legal, do they? Not with the huge industry that's been built up around its illegal status.
Nope, you have to offer a carrot to get the result you want. Let them legalize and tax it. The fact that pot could be sold in a packaged form like cigarettes would make no difference at all to the people growing it in their backyard. I can grow all the tomatoes I want, despite the fact that there are huge farms selling them.
Similarly, the tax revenues from pot would be a fantastic reason to legalize it, and its ensuing legal status would mean that you can just grow it if you want to. After all, if it's legal, they can't stop you.
And what's so wrong about buying your weed in cartons at the corner store, anyway? I'd LOVE to have it that convenient.
Do blue dogs play with blue balls?
they have closeted hang-ups about Dr. Manhattan.
(Sorry, that was weak. I've been wanting to do a Watchmen reference for a couple days now, and that's the best I've had to work with.)
As one of the not-too-many seniors who post comments here, I'd like to register my view that I don't find means testing of Medicare benefits "anathema." What IS anathema to me is the amount of money that gets siphoned off into big pharma and insurance industries. The Medicare drug benefit was an expensive Bush mistake, IMO, and needs to be completely revamped. Yes, means testing will probably increase my personal outlay, but I can live with that if the upshot is that younger people have more of a chance to build better lives for themselves free of the burden of a lot of us who have done well enough.
Older people can be selfish. There, I said it.
Would I sound real stupid if I said that I do not know enough about the details of these issues to have an opinion? Stupid or not, that's the truth.
Because far too many of our legislators aren't reading/researching the issues, and most of the populace gets the Cliffs' Notes version on the evening news.
They all admitted that they don't even read bills brought up! Now that is sad. How can you be for or against any bill without reading it?
... in such a manner as to make reading them as onerous as possible. USA PATRIOT was full of garbage like "'Title 1234 USC Section 2-by-4 Paragraph 1.7, replace 'except for' with 'also, though'" - which goes to show they'd been working on this for some time. You don't churn that much cross-referenced crap out in two weeks.
"The only thing I know is that I know nothing." - Socrates
"Dude, that's us!" - Ted "Theodore" Logan
Kissingers got us tied up in knots
If we are making a wish-list, I want all politicians to be required to take an IQ test before being able to run for office and I want the results of that test made public.
... does not mean honest.
I suspect that if we paid our legislators more in keeping with a middle-class paycheck, we'd get better results.
newt would pass any IQ test...
making the GOP all the more dangerous to life and liberty
Is to allow them to have American tourism and goods.
I've always wanted to go to Cuba for a vacation. I hear the beaches are beautiful, the food is great and the people are very hospitable. I'd rather spend 2 grand in Cuba than Bermuda!
I feel quite certain they'd be happy to buy some newer cars from us etc.
While we're at it, perhaps we can learn a thing or two about how they manage to provide healthcare for all their people.
At least that is the way it appears to me. The Dems and Repubs are all for cutting provisions AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T AFFECT THEIR STATES"
I understand why Nelson would be upset at losing 1,000 jobs in his state BUT is that real or just a scare tactic? Take Nelson's fear about losing payment to farms making over $500,000. I think I would like to ask him to provide a list of ownership of those farms. Very few farms are singly owned, they are owned by larger corporations.
The middle class is struggling and pulling in their belts, it is about time the legislators do the same. Maybe it is time to forget some provisions until the economy is stronger.
NO LEADERSHIP
Leadership makes deals, facilitates punitive measures to get their membership in line...and makes shit happen.
Democrats are notorious for not supporting their Presidents.
those Democrats who are "not supporting" their Presidents just have higher standards than the Republicans do, and so are more likely to be disappointed.
the part where people tell these Dems to shut up and support their president? After all, he's only been in power for __ amount of time. Wait and see. Stop whining. Etc, etc, etc.
sorry canuck progress back to the future is based on a president cant delagate jobs to be done by his underlings most certainly its because the underlings couldnt figure out how to folow directions or how to pour piss out of a boot without proper supervision ,there fore the arguements for real change getting done is it cant be done untill 6 months ,one year , the presidents first terms end! or the second term!
... and why would they vote for someone like Ben Nelson?
NB is postal for New Brunswick; NE is postal for Nebraska.
These complaints have nothing to do with the spending. It's time to end the Cuba embargo, as no one really wants it except for a few Cuban Americans who happen to live in an important battleground state. It would be good for Cuba and good for the U.S.
I can understand Nelson's complaint about the nationalization of student loan, although I disagree with him. Student loan reform is needed, and although I would feel bad for people who lose their jobs, I feel words for the millions of college granduates who are living in indentured servitude (including myself.)
Bill Clinton in favor of ending Cuba embargo.
Looks forward to large import of Cuban cigars.
Rolled on Cuban ladies plump thighs.
I feel words for the millions of college granduates who are living in indentured servitude (including myself.)
And what words would those be, exactly?
Also, yes on the Cuba thing. I got sick of the Miami Cubans decades ago. If it weren't for their grudge, we might have had that problem solved already.
Why are these bills not "open" to the American citizens before they are voted on... I am getting sick of hearing that everything is in a hurry so it can be passed , yet it does nothing to held the problems it was designed for and they just keep coming back with more BS...
Where is this Open Government we are suppose to see in this Change Is A Coming....
Something should also be done about adding all these attachments to a bill which has nothing to do with the objection of the original bill.. This would also get rid of a lot of pork...
Nelson Is one of the major republicans elected on the democratic ticket...
When he is against something , it must hurt the republican-corporate elite agenda...
Farms are being paid through the subsidy system even when they made large profits...
This will be a real rest of Reid's and Pelosi's leadership:
I believe you meant "a real test". Might want to fix that.
from 2007
"The Bush administration has proposed closing the loopholes and halting subsidies to anyone making more than $200,000 in adjusted gross income. Last month, Sens. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., and Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, introduced legislation that would cap individual farm payments at $250,000."
Not that the subsidies don't need revamping, Scott Pipen, David Letterman, and Lee Bass shouldn't get "farm subsidies". IMHO.
Too bad all we have is Harry Reid.
most are from red states and red states are usually dominated politically with RW talk radio, usually one or two GOP megastations.
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