In-flight Incidents Can Lead to Terrorism Charges
By Susie Madrak Tuesday Jan 20, 2009 5:00pmThis is why we have to fight every single encroachment on our civil liberties - they invariably get used for other purposes, simply because they can:
Reporting from Los Angeles and Oklahoma City -- Tamera Jo Freeman was on a Frontier Airlines flight to Denver in 2007 when her two children began to quarrel over the window shade and then spilled a Bloody Mary into her lap.
She spanked each of them on the thigh with three swats. It was a small incident, but one that in the heightened anxiety after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks would eventually have enormous ramifications for Freeman and her children.
A flight attendant confronted Freeman, who responded by hurling a few profanities and throwing what remained of a can of tomato juice on the floor.
The incident aboard the Frontier flight ultimately led to Freeman's arrest and conviction for a federal felony defined as an act of terrorism under the Patriot Act, the controversial federal law enacted after the 2001 attacks in New York and Washington.
"I had no idea I was breaking the law," said Freeman, 40, who spent three months in jail before pleading guilty.
Freeman is one of at least 200 people on flights who have been convicted under the amended law. In most of the cases, there was no evidence that the passengers had attempted to hijack the airplane or physically attack any of the flight crew. Many have simply involved raised voices, foul language and drunken behavior.
Some security experts say the use of the law by airlines and their employees has run amok, criminalizing incidents that did not start out as a threat to public safety, much less an act of terrorism.
In one case, a couple was arrested after an argument with a flight attendant, who claimed the couple was engaged in "overt sexual activity" -- an FBI affidavit said the two were "embracing, kissing and acting in a manner that made other passengers uncomfortable."
Login or Register to post comments.
and you don't have to be on a plane to be charged. just try some shit in an airport with the $8/hr bunch!
forst?
These laws are doing what they were designed to do: Oppress, terrify and silence Americans in the face of irrational, vengeful power. Mission accomplished, Bushco (and your conspirators in Congress)!
will go a long way to end the terroristic behaviour of the US Govt and its laws that oppress the peoples' rights to express themselves freely.
For christ's sake, going to jail for cursing out a fucking flight attendant? fuck. glad I don't have to fly.
It is so good to read your posts!
I enjoy thinking them up and sharing them...
:D
You tell it like it is and I admire and respect that Miss Kitty. You are one of my fav posters on here. (No I'm not stalking you just giving praise where it's deserved)
just saying...
No more mile-high club. :-(
you never know until you ask....
:)
NoOneYouKnow wrote:
These laws are doing what they were designed to do: Oppress, terrify and silence Americans in the face of irrational, vengeful power. Mission accomplished, Bushco (and your conspirators in Congress)!
Absolutely. but more so: they are designed to give people some tangible evidence that the government s serious about terrorism.
If the .gov were really interested in fighting terrorism, they'd dismantle the Empire. I don't see al Qaeda flying planes into towers in Denmark. So, as long as the American people are interested in being 5% of the worlds population and consume 24% of its resources, they should expect some turbulence...
In the mean time, the .gov uses billions of dollars to engage the signifiers of security in order to project an image of competence in the face of "terrorism".
To anyone with even a half dozen working braincells, it's obviously bullshite.
They'd research who put the put options on the airline stocks on Sept. 11th. They'd find out who sent the god damn Anthrax to Patrick Leahy and Tom Daschle. They'd invade Pakistan and hunt down Bin Laden in any cave he may dwell in. They'd not have let Bin Laden's relatives leave the Country so soon after 9/11. They'd take border security seriously if they thought their was really a threat from people breaking into our country.
Instead they just take our rights away as Citizens and play games on Airplanes instead of locking the cock pit doors and making them impenetratible. These people aren't concerned with real threats. Instead they used 9/11 as an excuse to go on a natural resource grabbing rampage and dissolve the age old Constitutional protections in our Constitution with the passage of the Un-American Patriot Act.
They wouldn't have closed down their Bin Laden unit in the CIA. They wouldn't have let him go at Tora Bora. We as journalists have failed our Country by allowing these glaring absurdities go by with relative little analysis or attention. Sad state.
Why have they never constructed a terrorist-proof cockpit? Because there is no real threat of terrorism, unless it's state sponsored, and they don't want to give that one up.
Our government has always been great protecting us from us. taking away our rights is the easiest way to look like they are actually doing something. I work for the government, they have spent millions or more and have not acomplished shit.
Well, its hard to do if all of that has been based on complete lies. I mean just assuming we take the evidence at face value, Bin Laden was working and collected over 3 billion from the CIA and his father is a close friend of the father of the last president.
Well I think you can see that if his father was head of the CIA for many years leading up to his own presidency, you would have to at least consider that the whole network is a propaganda unit.
Wrong thread....
as things sit right now, the bastards have basically bankrupted the entire financial system. Although far from perfect, at least it was operating before. Now, it's chaos. These rich bastards are not going down and not going to lose their money. They are going to slash and burn (and are). If politicians don't do a 180 in their bailout thinking, the entire financial system is going to collapse completely. This isn't just political anymore. We are all in serious trouble.
...a few years ago who was forced to drink her own breast milk because the airlines thought it was a dangerous liquid disguised in a bottle.
nearly locked the woman up in an airport and for hours heaped verbal abuse on her because she had a four ounce bottle of milk and the limit was three. they would not even let her drink it when she offered to. instead they went off on her even more. I know there was a thread about two years ago here and if it was not about that incident, than I posted a remark about it then.
all tha airline/airport crap is bogus.
And I remember when the fake terror threat about liquids on airplanes forced people to give up all containers that contained liquid....
So that they could throw them into a communal bucket together! Good way to prevent mixing substances! I wonder if Obama is going to dismantle this fictitious War of Terror?
Hydrogen peroxide and other oxidants can be made to explode.
"A flight attendant confronted Freeman, who responded by hurling a few profanities and throwing what remained of a can of tomato juice on the floor."
The woman who attacked the flight attendant sounds nutty.
In the post-9/11 era, when you fly, you'd better act like an adult or take the bus. Sorry, but I have zero sympathy for the woman who threw the can.
She is still an American citizen and doesn't need to be put on some American anti-Terrorism list. Would you speak up for her if they detained her without notifying her family or charging her for a crime or without the right of Habeas Corpus..
They have brainwashed you to be fearful, Christopher. Where in the report does it say the Mrs, attacked the flight attendant? NOWHERE, it says she threw it on the ground. See you are manipulated to feel threatened. You are manipulated to be scared of the imaginary terrorist. You are manipulated to be against freedoms and civil liberties.
The story says nothing the attendant said. But you wouldn't ask that would you? You think that 9/11 was done by people in a cave.
Remember, our Gov't spent more money investigating Clinton's BLOWJOB, then 9/11. Check your facts.
I've had the unfortunate experience of being on long flights where drunk passengers got into it, tussling with a flight attendants, and then threatening other passengers.
When I'm at 35,000 feet, flying at 650MPH, I think it's reasonable to expect passengers to behave in a civil manner and not act like animals.
As a passenger, your ticket doesn't give you the right to throw things at the flight crew. If this happened in a restaurant, you could be charged with assault.
on the ground is not assault. Making unwanted physical contact is. If it happened in a restaurant, you'd be thrown out and possibly arrested if you refused to leave.
I agree the woman sounds like a nightmare. But she is not a terrorist. That is from whence the calls of "bullshit" spring.
If you don't like it, drive or take a bus.
Christopher, you sir are a fool! How easily you are manipulated by all the propaganda! You and people like you are the reason we're a country in decline.
Assault/Battery
Historically, laws treated the threat of physical injury as "assault", and the completed act of physical contact or offensive touching as "battery," but many states no longer differentiate between the two.
http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/assaul...
Some people are confusing assault with battery.
To be charged with assault, you don't have to make contact with your intended victim. Threatening another person with your fist, or a tomato juice can hurled by the woman at the flight attendant, meets the legal threshold of assault.
This nutty woman committed assault and she did it on an airplane. Very serious.
Again, nowhere does it say that the woman threw ANYTHING at the flight attendant. Throwing the tomato juice on the ground is not the same thing - and in the real world, you'd never get an assault charge to fly.
Why assume the passenger is to blame? Her kids misbehaved, and she disciplined them - why did the flight attendant get involved? Is it her place to decide whether or not spanking is allowed?
This incident could just as easily be stated as: The flight attendant butted in where she should have kept her mouth shut, got told off for her efforts, and then played strong-arm when things didn't go her way.
This wasn't the nutty woman's living room.
The event happened on a commercial airliner, while in flight, with other paying passengers.
Reporting unruly behavior falls within a flight attendant's job description:
Were passenger irregularities/disturbances reported in accordance with the certificate holder's procedures? - Per FAA Requirement, Element Performance Inspection (EPI) Data Collection Tool 3.1.2 Flight Attendant Duties / Cabin Procedures (OP)
Assaulting a flight attendant threatens the safety of passengers and is a violation of federal law. Federal Aviation Regulation 91.11 states, "no person may assault, threaten, intimidate, or interfere with a crewmember in the performance of the crewmember's duties aboard an aircraft being operated." There are criminal and civil penalties for violating the act. Unruly passengers can receive a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison and a $10,000 fine and a civil penalty of up to $25,000.
This FAA is embraced by the AFA-CWA Union.
So, to answer your question, yes, really.
Wow, can you read? how many times do people have to tell you that the stewardess was NOT ASSAULTED?? The woman was unruly but nowhere in this article has it been proven that she assaulted this stewardess. She cussed at her. Your FAA regulation quote is completely irrelevant, because it has to do with threatening the safety and security of other people. What this woman did was nothing of the sort.
And all of this is completely irrelevant anyway, because even if she DID assault the stewardess, that's NOT TERRORISM, which is the entire point of the article anyway! Sheesh!
I'm wrong, the flight attendant is wrong, the FAA is wrong, the airline is wrong and the Union is wrong.
Got it. Phew. Talk about self-aggrandizement.
Chris needs his snuggleblankey.
This is what happens when people are 'ruled' by laws (especially bad laws). Common sense goes..... Selective enforcement enters the head of a stewardess when she gets emotional or her fascist enforcer nature is challenged. Then ALL the forces/authorities line up to support the stewardess or the airline, the homeland security service, or 'whatever' other interested party has entered the picture. Then they turn it all over to the judges, attorneys, magistrates, psychologists, child protective services, etc. It grinds on for months or years and seems to take on a life of it's own. Then the poor victim pleads guilty, trying to get clear of all the madness and is rewarded with a federal felony conviction. Her life will never be the same again, her children are taken away, she's put on the no-fly list, all because of some stress in close quarters, misunderstanding,intolerance, stupidity, or a combination of the above. So BEHAVE! all you humans! No fondling, no kissing, no snoring, no smoking, no spanking, no nursing of infants, no drinking, no groping, no open fires, no farting, no BO, bad teeth, or bad breath. No arguments, no intentional spillage, no exposing of private parts, masturbation or massage. Dresses may not be worn, but burkas are allowed. NO QUESTIONING OF AUTHORITY! All imperfections will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of an unjust law, especially if they offend our sense of what is right!
I'm glad I don't have to fly and be seated near fighting children and their ugly-mannered parents.
There is a need for strong penalties for disruptive customers, but the airlines should just make their own no-fly lists of pain-in-ass people.
painInTheAss
not
Terrrrrrrist.
Nothing annoys me more than stupid college kids complaining about parents and children. I'm so glad that most times, people agree with me. Fucking college kids and their obnoxious music and bad hair. And pull up your fucking pants already....
After working twenty-five years in service industry jobs, seeing other service-industry people abused is up the list of my annoyances.
It astonishes me how someone could act unkindly toward someone who brings them food or pours their drink.
Brad, I completely agree with your sentiments. However, when it comes to air travel it's usually the passengers who get abused. I have witnessed astoundingly bad behaviour from flight attendants, particularly with United Airlines (they fly the route between the US and Australia). I have not only witnessed shocking behaviour but have been treated badly myself. I had one flight attendant who was so rude he deserved an award. He screamed in my face when I politely refused the box of food he was offering me. I said "no thanks" and he shoved his outspread hand in my face and screamed at me "you won't have anything to eat for FIVE hours". Spit came out of his mouth. I didn't care, I wasn't hungry. I was captive in that freaking seat with no leg room and he was a power freak. I have had lots of those experiences. It seems to me that flight attendants nowadays are surly, nasty and reactionary - not all, of course, some are great and smile and help, but on the whole, I feel it's getting far worse for passengers. United must train their crew to look surly and threatening.
Flying with a kid these days, I can't imagine. From what I hear, if you're a member of the hoi polloi, fliying by oneself is a nightmare and a half. Hurling a few profanities and throwing a can of juice on the floor is not an attack. Had the airline banned her, that would be appropriate. Calling her a terrorist under the law -- well that just cheapens the meaning of the word.
Shit. If you're ever asked to perform jury duty, only accept if it's a trial for one of the CheneyBushCo cabal. You really don't have a skill for sorting out degrees of criminality, based on this post. Sounds to me like you'd assume the guy in the dock was guilty, merely because of the accusation.
Totally agree. There is also more to this story than just the use of anti-terrorism laws to prosecute her. Dig a little deeper into the story. The woman needs some serious help before she sees these kids again or gets on a plane.
I think the flight crew should be able to put those passengers, who jump up and open the bins as soon as the plane touches the ground, back in their seats...AT GUNPOINT.
DD said: I think the flight crew should be able to put those passengers, who jump up and open the bins as soon as the plane touches the ground, back in their seats...AT GUNPOINT.
Now THIS I agree with ;)
Does this act of belligerence deserve three months in a penitentiary? If Freeman were charged with disorderly conduct, she would have received a fine at best.
Americans are already the most panic-stricken people on the planet, and then the government starts using this War of Terror campaign as cover for their continued Empire.
I think parents should be charged with terrorism when they don't spank their little terrors.
Would it make any difference if they kissy-couple were spanking each other?
Total agreement. Can't wait till the next wave of kids "matures". They are already little hoodlums.
Oops...
Is corporal punishment of your own children an act of terrorism?
Is showing affection in public an act of terrorism?
Is spilling a drink an act of terrorism?
Wow. I'm sure even the Taliban would think this harsh.
unless you were a woman trying to establish that you deserve rights.
should be deemed assault on a minor. When parents teach their children problem solving by physical violence, kids grow up thinking they can solve problems and express their anger though violence, like George W. Bush.
Striking children is wrong. Seriously wrong. I think spanking is wrong. I think those who support spanking are wrong.
And throwing objects on a plane is bad...not worse than striking children though.
But corporal punishment is NOT illegal, and is NOT assault. And whether you approve of spanking or not, it is not your choice to make for another parent.
And the article doesn't say that the woman "threw objects on a plane." She threw the can of tomato juice on the floor. That's not exactly a threat or danger to others.
S-s-s-sex crime!
http://www.remixamerica.org/videos/writing-julia
flight attendant confronted Freeman, who responded by hurling a few profanities and throwing what remained of a can of tomato juice on the floor.
I'll bet she was aiming the can at the flight attendant. Don't throw shit onboard a plane, it's purely inappropriate aggressive behavior. No wonder her kids are out of control. Nobody wants to deal with crazyass people like this on a flight. She shouldn't be on a terrorist list but she should be banned from the airline. I'm sick of being subjected to crazyass people and their badly behaved kids.
Within two months of the attacks, Congress passed the Patriot Act, a sweeping attempt to improve the nation's defenses against international terrorism. It included broad new powers for law enforcement in such areas as electronic surveillance, money laundering and search warrants.
Included were two key provisions on airline security. The first defined disruptive behavior as a terrorist act, reflecting the seismic shift in airline security.
The second broadened the existing criminal law so that any attempt or conspiracy to interfere with a flight crew became a felony -- a change that allowed flight personnel to act against suspicious passengers even if they hadn't begun an actual assault.
Ah, the Patriot Act. The gift that keeps on giving.
Folks go back to take care of dead relative. Effects include a collection of walking sticks. Unbeknownst to claiming relatives, one walking stick has hidden weapon.
Case includes being taken into custody (regardless of proof to the contrary), years of litigation, and finally a resolution (w/ tons of cost involved).
I don't have the right to share specifics, but this story was INCREDIBLE, and incredibly STUPID.
I wish these ladies would share it all publicly!
.....you keep your mouth shut, make no jokes, don't cause a scene, and basically mind your own business. That's just the way it is now. Nobody likes flying these days, but it's a necessary evil.
A flight attendant confronted Freeman, who responded by hurling a few profanities and throwing what remained of a can of tomato juice on the floor.
Freeman had no business doing what she did. And to say I had no idea I was breaking the law is just plain stupid.
If I was on this plane, this whole scene would have made me very uncomfortable. She should have been arrested.
...you keep your mouth shut and your head down and you don't cause trouble. AMEN BROTHER!
Maybe the flight attendant had no business confronting a passenger for spanking her child?
i got caught up in some bullshit just like that on frontier. we stopped in denver and i got off and when i tried to get back on, all of a sudden i dont have a seat or a ticket and im only half-way through my trip. well to make a long story short, a bunch of obsenities later i was thrown off the plane! i will never, never, fly on frontier again. i would rather have 4 more years of bush as president than fly on frontier again.
What happened to your ticket?
A few weeks ago I was flying back from holidays and my baby vomited on my neighbour in a domestic Air France flight... I certainly would be at Gitmo for chemical WMD attack if it has been in the US...
...will now become a part of my handy carry-on kit, along with my handy personal air purifier for incinerating air particles, including viruses, bacteria and uh-- stink, before I breath them.
I'd hate to be stuck having to wear baby-puke for a whole day before I had the chance to wash and change. Not being around babies much at all, I'm grateful for the warning.
Ummm - so yelling abuse at a flight attendant is now considered a TERRORISM offence in the USA and punishable by jail sentence???
So if you invade another country and kill and destroy thousands of innocent civilians - that's NOT punishable by a jail sentence????
Thank goodness common sense has prevailed in the USA and that evil incompetent douchebag has now departed - FOR GOOD WE HOPE - and someone who will restore respect, honour and dignity back to the Oval office will hopefully reverse all the stupid decisions made by previous president!
I can't get past the striking of children...but with that said, obviously, the Patriot Act and it's offshoots needs to be repealed.
From the article
After three months in jail, Freeman agreed to plead guilty in exchange for being released on probation. A court-appointed attorney told her that a plea deal would be the fastest way to see her children, who had been taken back to Hawaii and put into foster care.
Her probation required her to stay in Oklahoma City, where she grew up, and prohibited her from flying. Meanwhile, legal proceedings in Hawaii have begun to allow the children's foster parents to adopt them.
Freeman has been denied permission to attend custody hearings in Maui over the last six months, court records show.
How does taking Freeman's kids from their mother deter real terrorists or disrupt actual terrorist attacks?
This is NOT a case of a belligerent drunk placing the plane and its passengers at physical risk, but of a passenger who mouthed off to a flight attendant.
Also mentioned in the article is how the airlines are cutting back on attendants, but expecting them to deal with larger numbers of passengers, and that's without giving these employees any additional training or resources to deal with verbally-let alone physically-disruptive passengers.
Hit Freeman with a fine, and she's done jail time, but to take her kids from her is completely ridiculous and obscene.
I drove.
Drove to Las Vegas from SF Bay Area. Could have flown.
Drove to Spokane in December. Could have flonw.
I didn't like the long drives, and gas was cheaper in December than in April. But the gestapo (TSA) at the airport is insultingly and sickening. I've flown too many time to enjoy it anymore and the methods and process is downright degrading. My stomach turns everytime I see some elderly lady getting frisked by those thugs in unitform. The risk of a felony for a few hours saved isn't worth the cost anymore.
Phoenix's Intl airport is the worst. The gestapo is unusually ridiculous and thuggish. I kinda feel sorry for the airlines.
But I loved to take a plane trip. I love to fly.
But I don't think I will ever take a commerical flight again.
I would rather spend a week driving as 6 hours on one of these insane flights.
I will not spend my money to get on a plane and be forced to spend hours sitting there on the runway waiting to take off.
I will not give these people money to be treated like a criminal.
The things they are doing to protect these flights are as stupid as anything I have ever seen.
I wonder where they came up with such stupid ideas?
I already know they came from the ignorant bunch in power the republican morons.
Most animals are smart enough not to shit where they sleep but not republicans.
I think the flying public is crazy for putting up with this shit.
If you spend a couple of weeks without flying these morons will change their tune. We need some customer service! We need the customer is always right, if you are spending your hard earned money for this you should get something other then abused for the money you are spending.
One thing for sure the things they are doing will not make you more safe.
I think thay can take their planes and shove them up their ass. i won't use them!
This is why we have to fight every single encroachment on our civil liberties - they invariably get used for other purposes, simply because they can.
Yup...just as what's happened with the DrugWar...the rights-destroying laws formulated under it were grafted onto the War on Terror. And yet...a lot of so-called 'progressives' have been curiously silent or even supportive of continuing it.
Yepper, you gotta watch out for protecting your civil liberties, uh huh. All of them, not just the ones 'progressives' approve of...
I'm rather certain that it wasn't Progressives that created the drug laws nor Progressives who created the terror laws nor Progressives who combined them. So what the hell are you really trying to say?
were men and were not having sex, merely doing what every heterosexual couple has done in public without any reprisal.
"three months in jail before pleading guilty" for throwing a can of tomato juice on the floor??????? I'd be sueing someone I think! That simply can't be legal for them to do that to this woman!
Well we have to start looking in the mirror and ask why are we re-electing the very people which vote our freedom and rights away...
Look at Pelosi , Feinstein , Schumer , Blue Dogs , Reid and the other democrats which we just keep voting into office...
No matter how much they vote to support Bush and his administration to destroy our constitution and laws we just keep voting them into office.
Instead of "now" selecting people and raising funds for their campaign to replace the democrats which have been supporting Bush and his criminal crimes we do nothing until it is to late...
First things first. Remove the "LIST". The List is the List of all dissenters, all people who question and all people who think. All people who might be a threat to the Government of the US (not the people, the government)
Remove the List. These Lists were what got you on the trains to the concentration camps. The lists only get bigger, never smaller.
And a democratic law abiding society does not have a list of people whom may be used as scapegoats should your morals fall complete away into the abyss of Nazism.
"Those not like us must die". Then look at that, you have a list...
Login or Register to post comments.