It's Not Your Imagination. It Really IS Much Harder to Get Hired During A Recession.
By Susie Madrak Tuesday Jun 30, 2009 6:00pmI used to be an executive recruiter and I can tell you: the worse a recession is, the more demanding the prospective employers become. I remember trying to fill high-level software sales positions after the dot com collapse for hiring managers who didn't want "any of those dot com people." (Apparently they showed too great an affinity for risk-taking.) And yet, all the experienced candidates worked for them, so they ended up hiring people who didn't know what they were doing.
So if you're a good, talented employee and you still have trouble getting a job, please don't take it personally. The people making the hiring decisions are often a little nuts, making off-the-wall demands based on their own crazy logic:
With unemployment at 9.4% and rising, it’s a buyer’s market for employers that are hiring. But many employers are bypassing the jobless to target those still working, reasoning that these survivors are the top performers.
“If they’re employed in today’s economy, they have to be first string,” says Ryan Ross, a partner with Kaye/Bassman International Corp., an executive recruiting firm in Dallas. Mr. Ross says more clients recently have indicated that they would prefer to fill positions with “passive candidates” who are working elsewhere and not actively seeking a job.
See, that's just sales speak. It may indicate that they're first string - or it may indicate that their brother-in-law is the department head, or that the person is really, really good at kissing butt.
The whole "passive candidate" thing is something recruiters like to push because that way, we get to bill a lot more hours. After all, it takes a lot longer than just searching the Monster resume file!
The bias extends from front-line workers to senior managers. Charlie Wilgus, managing partner of executive search for Lucas Group, based in Atlanta, says a manufacturing client looking for a division president recently refused to consider a former divisional president at Newell Rubbermaid Inc. whose department had been eliminated. The client doesn’t want candidates who have been laid off, Mr. Wilgus says.
Bobby Fitzgerald prefers to hire the already employed even though he gets two dozen or more unsolicited résumés each day at his White Chocolate Grill.
Employers’ preference for the employed adds another hurdle for those who have been laid off. Job seekers frequently are competing with dozens of other applicants for the few available positions.
Bobby Fitzgerald, a partner in five restaurants in three states, says these days he gets two dozen or more unsolicited résumés each day at one of his Phoenix restaurants, the White Chocolate Grill. But Mr. Fitzgerald says his top candidates, for jobs ranging from servers to management, usually are people who are employed elsewhere. He currently has 50 openings across his five restaurants and has told recruiters to bring in only people who are working.
Yes, the "unemployed" stigma is another huge hurdle. No matter how carefully you'd explain that a candidate was really top-notch, and that the circumstances surrounding their unemployment had nothing to do with them, employers just didn't want to hear it. (Oh, and they didn't want anyone who was older. We ignored that - and if they pushed, told them we didn't use illegal practices.)
I've tried to talk to these people. I'd say, "Look, if you hire some superstar away from another company, what you've hired is someone who's really in demand and will always be ready to leave you for a better offer. It's better to hire a good solid performer who will be loyal because you gave him a break." (Occasionally they would listen.)
The other annoying thing that happens during a recession is that employers start demanding all sorts of unrelated skill sets in one person (figuring they'll get them to do two jobs for the price of one). I'd advise you against taking a job like that even if it's offered - no matter how bad the economy is, it's not worth the heart attack you'll probably get.
Now, as a recruiter, I would never advise a candidate to do anything unethical or misleading. But as a human being, I can tell you: Remove any dates on your resume that indicate your age. Don't list every job you ever had, it only makes you look old. And don't put down "consultant" as your present employment (unless you work for a known consulting company) because most people will assume that means unemployed.
But if you're doing any part-time consulting for anyone, see if they'll agree to say you're working full-time, and list that job title instead. Do what you can to make it look like you're already employed.
It's a jungle out there, guys.
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Reading stuff like this scares me.
I'm a woman, divorced, way over fifty, don't have a sugar daddy, and got "workforce-reductioned" in January. Try finding a job with those "qualifications"--and I have a Bachelor's degree, too. I guess the employers think we "old" people should just be put on an ice floe and pushed out to sea to die.
You are not alone.
I was in your boat, and went to the unemployment office where I was told that no one would want to hire me, because of my age. However, they offered to write my resume, stating that they could write the resume in such a way that it was much more likely that I would get an interview. They said that if you get the interview, the older person has a much better chance of getting hired.
(I wound up getting re-hired by my former employer through a union arrangement.)
Notwithstanding the foregoing, the older person has the deck stacked against them because of health care costs. Statistically, an older person has a much higher chance of becoming ill. Fact is, if we had a national health care system comparable to Europe's, that doesn't rely on the employer to finance health care, you would have a much greater chance of getting hired. As an independent contractor, you probably are on an even keel with younger workers, but between FMLA and health care cost considerations, an employer typically isn't going to want to touch you with a 10 foot pole. That's why I'm reemployed with my former employer, doing a job I'm not interested in doing, in order to lock in post-retirement health benefits, which could go away in the event of an insolvency.
I feel much better now.
If you got laid off in January, you're still collecting unemployment. I assume the extension is still on, so an extra 13 weeks should get you reaching September. As part of the stimulus program Obama worked in a subsidy to Cobra, let me Google,... 65%, so the sky hasn't fallen yet.
Unemployment had gotten me an interview at the same time I was offered a job by my former employer. So, I never made it to the interview, instead accepting the bird-in-the-hand. As far as the unemployment office is concerned, we're talking Georgia, but I have to say, I fully recommend exploring all avenues with your unemployment and not do it yourself, especially in constructing the resume. Georgia has "certified" resume writers, available to anyone, not just people who are collecting. I don't know what the deal is, in your state, but check it out. You may be good at what you do, but your unemployment office are the subject matter experts at getting you rehired. I think, if I hadn't been rehired by my former employer, that these people would have gotten me a job.
and have a degree in English, to boot, so did not just fall off the turnip truck. I have been told I have a very good resume. I just have to keep the faith. Unfortunately, I was an admin at a steel mill, which has now layed off about 350, from an original 850. I don't know if you know about the steel business, but it's pretty much in the dumper. And my company was not a union shop. So, looks like I'll be looking in other areas...which I have worked in before, anyway. Thanks for your nice tips, though. It's nice to have other people who have concerns for you---not like the "I've got mine...get your own" Rethuglicans. Thanks again.
I had worked for the same employer for over 15 years when I got laid off, so, I was not very good at getting new work. I was only too happy to "outsource" that to the unemployment office.
If you locked in some health benefits from your former employer, you're in better shape than I was in. I'm now about 4 months away from doing so.
That said, copying a health care system from abroad is best for our economy and best for allowing people like us to attain reemployment. So, on health care, it's also not a case of "I've got mine...get your own".
I do know this well. In 2001 there was a downturn and it was my situation to be looking for work in a tough economy. It was really 3+ years before fully employed. I did work multiple part time jobs and looked at other careers. With Networking, informally and formally (including a Buddy Group) eventually I landed a full time short-term contract which led to another contract and now a career position with benefits.
Do not give up. You will find a job. You might find a different job, you might make less (might take a path that pays more). Ask friends for a lead and have an informational interview at a target company - do not ask for a job as your friends do not have one.
It is tough, it is not your fault. It is very unfair that the recruiters turned on me and said I was overqualified, or 'not a good fit'. But now on the inside, when we wanted people to add, the HR people screened and delivered only people working who were a good fit. The others, (no matter how nice was the resume and cover letter) never made if forward.
Keep going and keep positive (and fit) during the time.
for a job which offered $10/hr with employer-supplied insurance. I told them I had my own insurance, so in that case, could they consider $12.50? Bingo! Big mistake. They now knew how old I was and within 24 hours I got an e-mail saying I was a wonderful person, but they had found someone (read younger, will toil for $10/hr) whose qualifications more closely met their needs. B.S. I had the perfect qualifications for that job. And, being "mature", I am never absent or late and have never said "That's not my job." Sometimes I think employers are just plain stupid.
They probably thought you would jump ship at the first opportunity if they pay you only $10, or even $12.50 hour.
and look 10 years younger than I am.
during the past 2 years
im doomed
$9.98, looks great!
a service job, and I've tried. I got laid off at just the wrong time and now my life is shit on toast.
I had a really good job that l loved , i ran the swing shift and had 35 people working for me , mostly welders and machinist . Was working 70 - 80 hour weeks had a heart attack , when I was able to return to work I was fired after two weeks . Will turn 62 in Oct. , in todays market what companys want is a 25 year old with 40 yrs exp.
Lets see ,
1) age
2) heart attack
3)100k per year
4) MFG sector
Real good chance , just like a snowball .
I've seen some of the most insane hiring decisions made in my time, and HR is always just a rubber stamp. I've seen highly qualified people not even get an interview while someone with very little experience, or the wrong kind, gets the job because they had the same hobby as the hiring manager or some other crazy reason. There are some really stupid, incompetent people in management across this country. The Michael Scott ("The Office") type is for real.
I feel bad for those looking for a job. Right out of college I had to move to another state to get a job, a job where a college degree was not required just so I could say I worked "in the industry". I had friends with bartending jobs making more than I did. I worked for a-holes and made crap for pay. But it got my foot in the door. Now with a few years under my belt, I was able to move back to my home state and move up a few paygrades.
I really am floored by people in HR departments. I've been sent resumes by HR to review potential hires and I don't know how they pick some of them. I swear that sometimes it's because the resume is on pretty paper. The person with the most flowery phrasing is rarely the best candidate.
And I feel bad for any boomers looking for jobs, but the young folk today can't compete with the retired boomer (with a career's worth of experience and contacts) who just want a part time job to keep busy and because they enjoy the work. Employers love these people. It's just a hard time for everyone. The person above who said managers want a 25 year old with 40 years experience hit the nail on the head.
2009 will go down in my resume as a lot of time applying for jobs, eating, applying for jobs, sleeping way to late, going through interviews that would best be described as qualifications yoga.
Currently going through yet another 4 week protracted interview process that drives me freakin nutz!
Despite the fact that the company division I worked for completely shut down. Going from 60 employees to 0.
And I still get that look whenever I have an interview. So whats wrong with you? ARGH!
Wish me luck, evidently I'm competing with only one other candidate. Why do I think they have a job already......
I just saw a job ad that required a "background check and drug screen". The job? A sign-spinner (you know, those people who walk up and down the sidewalk waving, pointing and "spinning" their sales signs). A background check and DRUG TEST? You'd HAVE to be on drugs to do that for 8 hours!!!
It's Called the American Dream Because You Have To Be Asleep to Believe It."
George Carlin
and you wonder why 50 year old Ph.D chemists are out in the woods cooking meth?
That's about the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Sure, turn your business into a revolving door of status seeking ship jumpers. Remind me again of why the economy sucks... could it be the idiots we are forced to work for? Well?
but I think of that dynamic as similar to guys wanting to date girls who are already girlfriends to other guys. If they are attached, then they are certified "desirable". If unattached, well, then, nobody must want them. Same with hiring managers and jobseekers.
2 relevant stories:
1. One of the places I currently work (I'm cobbling together multiple small jobs now) let one major full-time position evaporate when the person holding it moved on and then they assigned all the responsibilities to another employee there who already had a very demanding full-time position, with no increase in pay. The person is in her mid-20s and just accepts it like it's normal, no complaints at all, even though she barely even has a life now outside of work.
2. A middle-aged friend with a masters had worked in a highly skilled health-care position for years along with several others. They got new management, right-wingers just out of college, who began imposing impossible-to-follow new rules and restrictions, like that they couldn't spend too much time helping their patients but had to devote more time to paperwork and pointless meetings instead. Soon, those who were oldest and there the longest, and thus best at their jobs (nurses, in this case), were fired. Soon, the new 23-year-old boss began being bizarrely insulting and harsh to my friend and soon fired her for "spending too much time with her patients." My friend moved to Japan and will not return to the US to live ever again, as she sees no hope for the country.
I'll never understand why management types are so in love with the idea of bogging down employees (who actually do the work that makes their company money,) with the minutia of invented paperwork and planning meetings.
Perhaps it's that management types have only one skill, can imagine only that skill, and when all you've got is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail... So, meetings, meetings, meetings, paperwork, paperwork, paperwork.
Paperwork makes sense sometimes. There are things that need to be documented, etc, but this friend's position was one of directly helping people in need, families with disabled children, and it was impossible to control how long each family session would take. My friend got her paperwork done, but the new young management started insisting that it be completed in an impossibly quick time and started requiring more of it, much of it redundant. My friend thinks that it was a deliberate strategy to "trap with persnickety rules" to justify firing the long-timers so they could hire younger people at lower pay and few or no benefits, which they did.
As for meetings, both this friend and I have experienced new management calling mandatory meetings deliberately during the busiest time of the day where we're berated and it's hinted that we'll be fired if we don't improve, after which, because our work has been hindered by the meeting, we're behind and another meeting is called to berate us again. I now know that's a sign that new management wants to fire people.
I work in television and video production, and I was laid off from my full-time job about two years ago. I know it's a tough industry, but I'm good at what I do. I'm young, with about three solid years of experience and an Emmy Award under my belt. I haven't been able to find a full-time job since the layoff. Lately I'm doing unpaid intern work just to keep my resume from withering. I've lost pretty much everything: my apartment, my savings, unemployment ran out, even my relationships are strained. I had to move home with my parents, who have been really good about helping me. But everything is wrong about my situation.
HR people see that my employment has been spotty, and they ask me questions like, "So what have you been up to?" I feel like telling them, "Trying to convince people like you, who have no idea what my qualifications mean, that I'm desperate for a job." I'm competing for entry-level jobs with people who have been working in the industry for 10 or 15 years. And I'm treated suspiciously because I was laid off. It's almost impossible to get through to these people.
Being at their mercy, I've been living through the worst two years of my life, and it's probably going to stay that way for a while longer.
my world. Almost my same situation Verbatim....other than the Emmy award. And I'm onto about 3 years no work now. And lost everything..etc. You're not alone guy.
making less than i did at one
that includes my own small biz, which is making me shite
im also assisting my landlord in pimping out his overpriced apts
and the fucker (who hasnt had a regular job in over 15 years and got all his properties from his parents) has the fucking gall to lecture me about my standing in life
i dont sleep at nite
im constantly worried about what the future holds
my credit card company jacked the rates on me, so i cant even use the one card i have left
and im constantly asked why i am angry
oh...and forget being retrained....i have a fucking masters in social work and already retrained for IT
im freaking
and i feel for everyone else in my situation
Is finding a job or something to do that pays the rent/food and is fun.
Forget the corporate rat race and focus on enjoying life.
I started my college and working life in 81 right at the middle of a doozy of a recession in the UK, then all the various mini recessions that happened in the two point five decades that followed.
So fuck em, I work to amuse myself now and my family and hobbies take precedent over work. I work to pay the bills and no other reason.
Work to live, not live to work.
That's easier in the UK because you have more social services than we do in the US. We hardly have any. Higher education is also substantially less expensive there (and everywhere) than in the US. I feel the same way you do, but it's much harder to do that here, particularly if you're older, since, as the article says, employers usually won't hire older people, meaning people above, say, 35.
Remember when we used to send resumes through the mail? Back then, I heard of a Sales Manager that would throw away envelopes without even opening them if the stamp on the envelope was crooked. If I had ever met that Sales manager, I would have kicked his ass
one of my people was laid off , went to a company passed all of the weld test and was told b/c he had bad credit they could not hire him , WHAT . His girl friend ( another one of my welders and whose like a daughter to me ) was there #1 weldor ( both have nuclear certs ) crazy shit . If you have bad credit you just might really need a job , duh ya ever think .
If MFG ever does come back to this country , who is going to be left to do the work , T and K worked for me on one project that had a 35,000 hour bid , it was a tool 90 feet wide 240 feet long and had to be within .100 , some of the beams cost well over $200 per foot .
oh i know , well just go out and hire someone away from micky D's or BK , hell anyone read prints that come in book form or do layout to within .010 ( + or - .002 ) or know how too , or , or . But then whats the prob , if we dont have a MFG country anymore . Would you like fries with your buger sir and how can i help you , here let me help you with your drool .
FUCK
Some of the 'hiring' practices of the HR world are insane, handwriting analysis, reading the tea leaves, body posture!!!
Technical people eventually find other better fun things to do, lose skills to a degree, or vow to not go back to a particular industry.
All hail the wisdom of the HR hiring school of thought, these pen pushers kill industry and people's will to work.
hate to break the news, especially to progressives who should know better, we are NOT in a recession, we are in a depression
have been in a depression for about 3 years, probably 4
real wages are down (depressed) and have been on the decline since Reagan with a brief respite during Clinton
real investments in American goods and labor is down (depressed), and have been on the decline since Reagan with a brief respite during Clinton
real assets have been decreasing (depressed) for about three years as well
for the past three years and for the first time since the great depression Americans borrowed more money then they made
while it's true a depression can be described as a severe recession, they are still two different things
this is a depression, brought about by redistribution of middle class wealth, begun under Reagan and his redistribution of tax burden, that process has continued, exacerbated by deregulating industry and allowing them the luxury of deferring their costs onto everyone else.
BTW and off topic but since I myself brought up "deregulation" as one of the culprits in this depression I must point out;
all a regulation does is force industry to pay their own bills, regulations are written to address issues an industry refuses addressing on it's own, and while there are counter productive regulations, the vast majority of regulations save us money
Enforcing a livable minimum wage and stopping companies forcing impoverished employees to accept pathetic wages and then having to go to the social services to top up their income to exist.
Corporate industry isn't a charity, they need to conduct their business on a paying method.
My last real job was in 2003. I have a MBA in Operations. I began collecting Social Security the soonest I could after turning 62. I have high blood pressure. As a nearly indigent person, if it were not for the VA, I would probably be dead.
I'm lucky enough to work for a small business that's doing reasonably well right now--and yet, they're still not refilling positions when people leave and giving all the work to other employees. Even successful businesses see this depression as a golden opportunity to save some money and squeeze more work out of fewer people.
What they don't realize is that it completely stifles creativity and kills morale, and makes people resent you. The work may possibly get done, but it doesn't get done well. Management is now far more overworked than entry level staff and the turnover rate is higher for them than for entry level staff. You'd think someone might take a moment to ponder this and wonder why, but no, they can't even see the nose in front of their faces.
Penny wise, pound foolish.
I probably looked for work all the wrong ways after being laid off exactly 2 years ago. The mantra is network, network, and network with other people, but most of my colleagues were half way across the country and I sure as hell wasn't entertaining the idea of moving to Texas from CA.
So I did the online job search thing and every time you click the "send" or "submit" button to fling your resume through the intertubes, it almost certainly ends up in a digital garbage can, with hundreds of others' resumes. My odds improved once I took to tracking down people who were in charge of looking at resumes for each job and if I thought I was a solid match, put much more emphasis on talking to the job's gatekeeper than hoping the gatekeeper would notice or give me a chance.
Last week the gatekeeper turned out to be a recruiter from a temp agency and liked me enough to get me interviewed with his client. If my performance is satisfactory, that temp job will be converted to permanent. Hope this helps somebody.
---care!
It's as good of a reason as any.
Some tips:
1. Start networking big. These days it's more important than ever to have contacts that could champion you into a job. If you can afford it, do lunch with whoever you do know is working, and ask them for the news and ask them for a quality reference.
A lot of the better jobs are not being filled from the resume' lotto.
2. If you've a weak spot, and most people do, seriously consider your resume'. Example: You've not racked up a lot of secondary education, but are good at what you do.
Consider a skills based resume' or an accomplishment based one. Listing skills that are important to the job, sorted to present the best matches first, and don't list every single skill.
For the accomplishment based one, list the things you've done that made other people lots of money and how. This one gets read because not everybody does it. I've used it from time to time just because my work history is very diverse. Not that I job hopped. It was just that I happen to be one of those people that can just do a project, nail it and then go and do another one.
You've got to tell your story in a way that shows serious value, not just loyalty and competency, etc...
3. Two page resume', that's it! Omit references, with a note they can be supplied on request. Education is a single, short description, and that's it. The bulk of the thing is to answer the question of what they will get, if they hire you.
4. One page cover, and write it for the position and ideally to the person deciding.
5. Target specific opportunities, then work them like you would a sales deal. If you are not a sales person, that means researching the company, getting contact names, even asking for a meeting to find out how the place works.
The goal of this is to provide good answers as to why you want to work there, and it's more than money or stability. Find some link that ties into your skills and passion and tell them that, along with the other stuff.
6. Consider your online foot print. Many employers do look at somebody online. If you've got gaffes there, find out what, if anything can be done. Consider adding a blog or something where they key in your name and get that instead of that My Space page, where you bragged about getting that new ass piercing, with photo.
You get the idea.
While you are at it, consider not doing that shit. It matters more than you think. (I only wish my kids would listen to that)
7. Consider doing some work for free.
This is to schmooze and to keep you sharp. The best jobs I've had are those where I was involved with the place at some level, made the friends, showed my value, then got hired. More often than not, they asked me. In this time, doing that is tough and they probably won't ask, but you still can, and you've a serious leg up on the others playing the resume' lotto.
User groups, speaking, helping with operations, whatever. If there is some open door where you can do some interesting stuff and get to know a few people, it's time well spent, IMHO.
8. Sharpen your sword.
Now is the time to go and get all the life issues sorted. Jump into all that crap that you put off and nail it. When you do get hired, it's at a very serious time premium these days. Why not be ready for it?
Ever want to build a few new skills! Do it now.
9. Work / trade for anything you can.
Unemployment bennies are not great. Most people slowly deplete their savings. Live as if you don't have any more coming in as much as you can, spending your few dollars very wisely, and freeing some for projects, emergencies, good clothes, doctor visit, etc...
10. Don't give up, and keep asking for help.
You don't get unless you ask, and you don't succeed, if you bail out early.
Man, it really, really sucks right now. Frankly, I'm doing some of these things because I'm worried too. I am employed, but I am shocked at how quickly things are getting more and more ugly. One friend a week is calling with the bad news. Scary, scary shit.
Have any of you seen the volunteer sites these days?
There are many great opportunities, don't get me wrong. But there are two trends I see. The first is listing an "internship" a/k/a "slave". They list years and years of experience for this "fresh out of college" a/k/a "cheap once we do hire you" opportunity. How can a college grad have five to ten years of management level, team building, capital generating experience with direct reports? It's BS.
The other trend is wanting a "professional or management" type for an admin job. I mean, they want to have cake and eat it too. Unreal.
I am willing to volunteer for someone with realistic expectations in order to prove myself. But often it seems like hiring companies want a ton of something for nothing.
it just seems strang that an employer wouldn't want to hire an unemployed person. An unemployed person is beaten down, happy to just have a job, and willing to kiss butt.
come to michigan. tons of unemployed not qualified for positions that are available.
As a tenured teacher who quit to follow her husband during some job transfers and to start a family, I continued my education, and always expected to go back when our daughter reached junior high. By that time I had certification in two subjects and a M.ED plus 30 additional graduate credits. Another year's worth of focus would have given me a doctorate. By this time I knew there were unemployed doctorates and I was going through a divorce and really needed to work. "Other candidates better suit our needs" was common in rejection letters. This meant either they were fresh out of school and nowhere near my level on the pay scale (and you can't work for or be offered less money in states I'm familiar with in public education) or you had a relative on the school board. When I did get an interview, my potential employers always seemed enthusiastic, then offered me a substitute job. Although they were never asked for, I always included copies of my evaluations (usually excellent) from my years as a full-time teacher. Long story short: I began subbing, getting work on a near daily basis, finally narrowing it down to the district with the best pay and administrative support (best pay being $100 a day and no benefits for nine months a year). I supplemented with retail work and summer classes with "at risk" kids. I recently grabbed earliest possible Social Security and retirement and still supplement with retail work. All in all a decent living as long as I can keep it up.
I am not hireable! I'm over 50 and was laid off last year. I have a conviction of a DWI that is 12 years old- it was only a misdemenor. Try applying for a job with that as well. God has forgiven me and my life is so much better. My credit rating is bad due to I'm unemployed;even if I am paying something on those accounts,I'm still in collections.
It seems the employers are hiring those employed rather than those unemployed. Three years ago, my life was great before I purchased a home in Jacksonville, Fl. My credit rating was excellant, I had a job of 5 years and my deepest desire and dream was to purchase a home. So I moved here and losing everything.
I feel our government has let many of us down. I've written to the President, the governor, Department of Human rights, several Senators. I want answers and help for us baby boomers. I just want a decent job so I can support myself.
Let's challenge the government and let them see what is happening to us little people here! Thanks.
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