Joe Biden: Israel Can Bomb Iran, We Can't Stop Them
By Susie Madrak Sunday Jul 05, 2009 10:00am
What on earth is going on here? On "This Week" this morning, Biden shrugs off possible Israeli action against Iran with "Whattaya gonna do?". But Joe, while Israel is certainly a sovereign nation, it's one that's heavily subsidized by the United States and we certainly do have a say. Didn't you just give them the go-ahead signal to bomb Iran?
Seems to me this is the moral equivalent of sending detainees to other countries to be tortured and then saying, "That wasn't us!"...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But there will be engagement -- if the Iranians want to...
(CROSSTALK)
BIDEN: If the Iranians seek to engage, we will engage.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And meanwhile, the clock is ticking...
BIDEN: If the Iranians respond to the offer of engagement, we will engage.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But the offer is on the table?
BIDEN: The offer's on the table.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And meanwhile, Prime Minister Netanyahu has made it pretty clear that he agreed with President Obama to give until the end of the year for this whole process of engagement to work. After that, he's prepared to make matters into his own hands.
Is that the right approach?
BIDEN: Look, Israel can determine for itself -- it's a sovereign nation -- what's in their interest and what they decide to do relative to Iran and anyone else.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Whether we agree or not?
BIDEN: Whether we agree or not. They're entitled to do that. Any sovereign nation is entitled to do that. But there is no pressure from any nation that's going to alter our behavior as to how to proceed.
What we believe is in the national interest of the United States, which we, coincidentally, believe is also in the interest of Israel and the whole world. And so there are separate issues.
If the Netanyahu government decides to take a course of action different than the one being pursued now, that is their sovereign right to do that. That is not our choice.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But just to be clear here, if the Israelis decide Iran is an existential threat, they have to take out the nuclear program, militarily the United States will not stand in the way?
BIDEN: Look, we cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do when they make a determination, if they make a determination that they're existentially threatened and their survival is threatened by another country.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You say we can't dictate, but we can, if we choose to, deny over-flight rights here in Iraq. We can stand in the way of a military strike.
BIDEN: I'm not going to speculate, George, on those issues, other than to say Israel has a right to determine what's in its interests, and we have a right and we will determine what's in our interests.
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in soverign Iraq?
Soverign Iraq would probably apporve them, but then face retalitory action, with US troops being in the line of fire.
99% of the world's problems would be solved of the nation who sold weapons to another nation were forced to take responsibility for their use.
Not only that but the U.S. still controls the airspace over "soverign" Iraq. An attack by Israel would almost certainly have to occur with U.S. approval. The only other ways would be from the sea or via Turkey. An attack from the sea would have the same results as U.S. warships would know of an imminent attack coming from Israel and Turkey (even if they some how approved) is to far for Israeli fighter aircraft. If Israel did launch an attack the U.S. would be the nation to fight it afterwards and Israel knows that. The perfect set up.
in order to get to Iran.
This is typical moral relativism at its best: Israel can basically wipe their ass with international law if they feel remotely threatened. However, any other nation not following said law to the dot, better brace themselves for American bombs.
Also, I believe their planes do not have enough reach without air refuelling to get to Iran. So where are those tankers going to be, and who is going to provide them?
I can't argue with you there. Israel has done that with international law more times than I care to count.
Israel HAS wiped their ass with international law for 61 years.
submarines that can fire cruise missles. They can strike without the use of aircraft.
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/dolp...
and how would this reasoning not apply to
Iran and N. Korea doing the same? seems
very hypocritical to me. i don't support
either of the above mentioned regimes, but
if a country perceives a threat to it's
interests, then whoever they are have the
right to protect these interests.
biden is treading on very thin ice with
his statements and they could be misinterpreted
as hostile by Iran's and N. Korea's currently
dominant insane rulers.
How can we stop Israel from bombing Iran?
"How can we stop Israel from bombing Iran?"
Ummmm, for starters hows about cutting off all the aid we give them every year? I believe it's about $1.5 billion.
Maybe next we could go to the U.N. as a permanent member of the Security Council and bring forth a resolution to ask the world to boycott "everything Israel" until they stop with their belligerent, threatening attitude.
And that's just for starters.
But since Israel is our 51st "state" and they dominate all administrations/Congress, sadly there is ZERO hope of the above possibilities ever materializing.
But I can dream....can't I?
$40 billion per year. and that figure is old. your figure of 1.5 billion is way too low. We give more foreign aid to Israel than we give to ALL other nations combined.
curtilingus.....
I keep hearing about a healthcare crisis we can't afford to fix. How is it we can afford to send money to an asshole nation that doesn't give a shit what we say?
Cut 'em off. Full Stop. Declare certain organisations that fund this shit terrorist organisations (with amnesty til now) to dry up THAT funding, and blame the ability to do so on the 'Patriot' Act.
Cut off the funds. Cut off the technology transfers. Israel is not a sovereign nation. It is our puppet regime in the mideast which we made to break Arab nationalism and keep the region unstable. Without our money their economy would utterly collapse.
If you want to find illegal wmds in the mideast...Israel
If you want to find a theocratic terror state...Israel
If you want to find a country BASED on institutional racism...Israel
We have busted more Israeli spies than any other countries spies.
ok
btw, you really need to toss both your computer and cell phone out the window
both developed with a big assist from israeli tech
as for "institutional racism", care to point out the israeli university or institution that denies acceptance to any one specific group?
care to note how many jews attend universities or have places of honor in any of the arab countries?
bet you cant
i really do love the hate that comes from many on the left when it comes to israel...for it is hate not based on fact
and your assertion about busting more israeli spys is totally absurd
so when are you gonna post about the kosher tax and how jews use the blood of christian children on the passover?
and mod, before you delete this post....please explain how the above poster can make assertions without basis in fact
"btw, you really need to toss both your computer and cell phone out the window
both developed with a big assist from israeli tech"
American Technology along with Asian countries developed that technology pal. I am all for giving credit where its due but that isnt the truth. American Technology Firms are far superior then anything Isreal has. That goes for military tech as well.
What Isreal is doing is getting there hands into every American firm to benefit themselves. If only America put as much scrutiny to Isreal like they do China.
btw, you really need to toss both your computer and cell phone out the window
both developed with a big assist from israeli tech
SNORE. Big WHOOP.
The "above poster" is just telling it like many of us see it.
www.ifamericansknew.org/
This is what happens when self proclaimed Jews like Unlce gets anti-zionism mixed up with anti-semitism. Many believe you can't separate them. I want ALL people to be free. The Israeli government doesn't. It is by any definition a rogue state. Uncle, please think. Notice I said Israeli government and not Israeli people.
Spies
www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mother...
Institurtional racism
www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2009/04/insti...
That we will not accept aggression from either party .
Biden is a Zionist, he would never say that. Israel can be stopped but the American colony will not disobey its masters.
Totally ridiculous assertion.
This is an unusually coherent and well thought out statement by Biden.
He's clearly using the claim that we can't stop Israel as the stick (as well we should), while offering the carrot of a negotiated solution that will stop their actions.
This is not an analysis of the ability of US power to stop Israel. He is raising doubts in Iranian minds about US willingness to stop Israel. That way we get to both offer an olive branch but point to a stick, without threatening to use the stick ourselves.
I think that's just about the right strategy.
You're doing a heck of a job in that department... of course, us mere mortals can't comprehend the nuances of the three dimensional chess game that the Obama admin seems to be playing, where they say or do certain things but they really really really mean something else. Right?
LOL.
That stick will only harden them.
Democrats have Joe the Dumber. Won't be long before Israel does a bombing raid now.
.... which makes his statement all the more troubling.'
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
.
Of course...
... There is a killing to be had at making war!
.
I am shocked shocked I tell ye.
Who else has a feeling of Deja Vu ?
George Santayana was right.
Israel will learn its lesson this time around. Let me guarantee you that. They had their butts handed to them in Lebanon by insurgents, which is why they decided to go after civilian targets.
Oh and for Mr. Biden, yes we can stop them. There is the little matter of UN resolutions that we can STAND behind, but never do.
... is that there are plenty of UN resolutions against Israel, the US may have to stand behind.
Then again, we are the country who ignored the UN by bombing the shit out of a country because they ignored the UN.
Oh, I know there are plenty of resolutions that the Israelis don't follow. And I know that every time a resolution comes up against the Israel, the US vetoes it in the UNSC, making it non existent. If you want the UN to have real power, it should lose the veto power in the UNSC, as well as the permanent members. That way, countries like the US and Israel wouldn't be able to get away with what they want. As it is, I could probably assume that if Israel attacked Kansas City using its usual "we deserve to exist. We are Israel!! Remember the Holocaust?" routine, some in the US would back it.
Downright ignorant people.
UN resolutions don't work on Israel. There are 60+ UN resolutions Israel has ignored.
"As long as your living under my roof, eating my food, and dropping my bombs from my jets...."
This was my concern when Obama picked Joe for VP. I watched an interview from April 2007 that Joe did with ShalomTV that I found chilling. At the time he was seeking the presidency, and Joe said he was a Zionist, Jonathon Pollard deserved leniency, and Israel is not the 'cause' of anything bad in the Middle East.
IMHO, an odd position for the first-born in an Irish/Catholic family from Scranton.
VIDEO: Joe Biden tells ShalomTV ‘I am a Zionist’
... I also thought it was odd for such a "champion of the working man" to be shovelling that bankruptcy law down our throats a few years ago.
Obviously his "compassion for the working families" seems to only sprung during those train rides he claims to take where he gets to see all those poor American working families trying to make ends meet sitting at the table having dinner and what not...
Most zionists are not Jewish.
So not surprising for The Idiot to proclaim to be one. Yes, I will never vote for this dumbass.
It's pretty hard to see that and not realize that Joe is bought and paid for by Israel. What is it that we dont know about Israel and these politicians? They all read from the same script, regardless of what party they may be in. Must be some sort of sacred oath they all pledge to Zionism when assuming office
doesn't have anything to do with Israel maintaning it's statehood. If they didn't have Israel to use for an excuse, they wouldn't have aa reason to stay in the middle east and exploit the oil resources. Corporations don't have any interest in anything other than using our blood, sweat and tears to gain control of other country's resources and those country's people are not important.
Ron writes, "If they didn't have Israel to use for an excuse, they wouldn't have a reason to stay in the middle east and exploit the oil resources."
Yes, I think that's true. I just read Leap of Faith by Queen Noor (well, ex-Queen) of Jordan, an American woman who married King Hussein. In the last chapters she gets into some of the machinations in the Middle East ... how King Hussein would work out a specific agreement with Israel or the U.S. or Syria, and then without warning find it had collapsed and no one had told him, and then things grew more unstable in a certain area. This happened several times in the last decades.
We really can't believe any of the surface reasons given by our government for anything that goes on in that region; it's all manipulated.
the elite-ist's process of "managed conflict": Play both sides in order to profit from conflict. Manipulate strife in order to keep it going without end. Weaken both sides in the conflict, whilst appropriating their resources for your own and assuring that they gradually lose power and strength over the decades of strife, and manipulatre it so that the power they lose becomes your own. This is the neocon's, neoliberal's, CFR's and Trilateralist's modus operandi. Israel is both pawn and small bit player in this process.
....is not functioning properly and she can barely smile. No doubt she had the "work" done in the USA because she lives there now. Too bad Noor didn't have enough confidence to age gracefully. She really looks like a freak.
Ever hear of it?
BIDEN: I'm not going to speculate, George, on those issues, other than to say Israel has a right to determine what's in its interests, and we have a right and we will determine what's in our interests.
well thanks for that...
what happens when other nations think they also have the right to determine their own interests?
This is from the cadre that is shovelling all that "bipartisanshippy" bullshit left and right... actually it seems they only shovel right though.
Funny how the otherwise spineless Dems grow a spine quick when it comes to defend the interests of the oligarchy, or in this case Israel. It almost makes me wish they had that fire in their bellies when it came to defend the interests of us, the middle class in America.
I guess the "change" Obama and his bunch of merry men were talking about was that they will say "thank you" after they are done screwing us (and they may use some KY if we behave)... rather than the lack of gratitude we got from the Bush people when they were done screwing us.
Yay!
"what happens when other nations think they also have the right to determine their own interests?"
They are labeled insurgents and carpet bombed into the stone age.
...just look at all the incitement that has been attempted against Venezuela, because they had the unbelievable nerve and uppitiness to refuse to let their country be owned and operated by a bunch of American corporations. Just who the fuck do those people think they are, anyways?!?
as said by Clausewitz two centuries ago.
and as some gov PR merchant once famously said ninety five years ago.
"over by xmas"
The aim has always been to create "strategic ambiguity" - deliberately muddying the waters about Israeli and American intentions so as to pressure Iran in its negotiations with the West by ensuring it fears an attack if it doesn't play ball. D.C. hawks have gotten on board to such an extent that it is already an accepted fact among the Very Serious Person set that Obama's idea of negotiation without preconditions will get exactly one shot, will fail, and then the bombs will begin to fall. That's why they're so keen on using Iran's election as an excuse to derail those efforts - they're sure they'll never restart and thus they will be proven correct. Self fulfilling prophecy!
Everybody, from Obama on down, is ignoring as hard as they can the opinion of successive heads of the IAEA - el Baradei and now Yukiya Amano - that Iran has no nuclear weapons program. It doesn't fit the domestic narrative, which is all about hanging tough to gain votes. As usual, foreign policy is domestic gamesplaying inflicted upon foreigners.
My post here.
Regards, Steve
"BIDEN: Look, Israel can determine for itself -- it's a sovereign nation -- what's in their interest and what they decide to do relative to Iran and anyone else."
The rest is speculation... There will be no military action from Israel, towards Iran, unless they are provoked accordingly. IMO
Catalog this, under the Drama tag...
Its only been rattling sabers for the past few years about it. I wouldn't be surprised if they did it so much, and maybe launched a fake attack, as to get Iran to jump up and attack, and then make the case for war.
you mean like the attack against the Liberty.
Like I said above, some people in the US would probably accept Israel attacking a major city, because they are that ignorant and base their beliefs on far right, extreme Zionist views about Israel being the chosen nation or something like that. So the attack on the USS Liberty is often overlooked. It was just an 'accident' to the zionist, despite the overwhelming evidence.
However, I don't think that many other nations would go for that same thing. I fully believe that if provoked, a nation like Iran would go to war. Its leaders have proved to be very violent. I think this would bring in Syria into a war with Israel as well, as well the militants in Lebanon.
... but Israel could bomb the shit out of some US port city (liberals tend to gather around the coasts in this country it seems) and claim they were just helping bringing Armageddon a step closer. And most of middle America would not mind, they would right out cheer for Israel.
You're about an ignorant SOB. And I know you're a real American right, and liberals don't really love their country, just you sick fucks love your country. You are the worst kind of American that we have in this country, otherwise known as a POS.
it's not unheard of, though speculation nonetheless. We'll see if your theory proves meritorious? Thanks for taking the time to reply Zilam. √
I am struggling with what 'provoked accordingly' means. It appears to me, that to Israel it means bomb who you want, where you want, whenever you want, regardless of provocation.
...to get to Afghanistan. So what if some bombs fell off? Would that mean war?
Couldn't the Israelis just say some bombs fell off on an excursion flight to Nepal?
What??
that many people could see through his malicious schemes. It seems this time around that 90% of the population is going to swallow the endless imperialist interventionist Kool-Aid.
one set on destabilising the region.
And Joe's comment reminds me of the tacit approval given Saddam to take over Kuwait.
Joe Biden, crazy ass like Palin and Bush. Great.
Seems as if this is much the same. USofBLOODYISRAEL is supposed to be 'helpless' to stop a rogue gov. like BLOODYISRAEL, the Military/Industrial/PETROLEUM stooge.
But they better watch their ass once they start using mascara too.
a bit overboard with the rhetoric?
My God you really are pathetic aren't you? Do you ever look out at the world around you?
Take off your blinders you fool. Israel IS the country causing 99% of the trouble in the Middle East.
It's just sickening seeing you towing the line that poor old Israel is so hard done by. How those nasty, nasty Arabs just wont co-operate and die. If Israel would ever negotiate in good faith with any of their neighbors, all the troubles in the region could be worked out. Instead, Israel demands the Earth, Moon and Sky, is it any wonder that peace is impossible? If you shake a stick at someone long enough even the most calm and peaceful person would eventually shake one back.
Of course in your perverted world view, any criticism of Israel is automatically anti-semitic, and must be shouted down at all costs.
This
Then this.
Then, finally this.
You're wasting your time MGA. Joe only see his love for Israel and scorn for those who don't.
Nice of joe to kiss off any chance for a peace process in the Middle East for the next eight years.
It's this knee-jerk support of Israel that causes the other parties to think we're not honest brokers.
And even if Iran is not at nuclear warhead capability yet, they could be at the dirty-bomb stage.
...Joe Biden Costume?
How they gonna Biden's foot outta Obama's mouth this time?
He hasn't been vicepresidentin' for long enough, give poor Joe a break!
Either that, or he is playing some masterful game of checkers (since Chess is more Obama's thing...)
What game was boosh's?
Backgammon.
He'd knock your players out of the game just to win.
Everybody know primates are not advanced enough in their reasoning skills to deal with the abstract notions behind human games ;-)
They're favorite game is throwing feces.
Like this?
http://www.manilacathedral.org/NewsBulletins/...
Good one ys. I couldn't tell if he was trying to deal with an abstract notion or if he had just got done throwing feces.
... some feces can be quite abstract.
Excreto ergo sum...
In 1975, when Iran was an ally because the despot Shah, our stooge, remember we put him in 1953, was still in charge, Kissinger said Iran needed to develop nuclear energy. After Iran threw out our stooge they were no longer an ally and not permitted to develop nuclear energy.
We then proceeded to underwrite Saddam's invasion of Iran. It didn't end up that well for him and it killed enormous numbers of Iranians and Iraqis (and Kurds and who knows who else). Washington never cares about those kinds of things too much.
We liked Saddam until he invaded Kuwait.
It is all about OIL and CONTROL.
Washington loves oil and control. They love to control the oil. They do not like independent thought.
Israel is a client state, although sometimes it appears the tail is wagging the dog.
under our thumb. When they get all uppity and don't follow orders, something about axis of evil and what not...
http://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-conte...
Short Biden: "Bomb bomb bomb... bomb bomb Iran...." Maybe Obama needs a new PR for his re-election? "Change we can all agree was full of shit the first time around, but trust us you will believe in on the second go, for real this time, we pinky swear, do you believe in yet?"
North Korea is actually building and popping off nukes, while Iran is doing nothing that is illegal or proscribed under international law. But N. Korea doesn't have oil or any other natural resources worth stealing. Go figure.
Foreign Policy Journal
Iran is too independent and disobedient: Chomsky
April 20, 2009
by Kourosh Ziabari
here
It is NOT the best title.
A better title would be: Do exactly as we say, or we will BLOW YOU UP.
..............Noreiga, a supposed 'puppet' who had his very own agenda, separate from the CIA, no less!! This is the MO of the USofBLOODYISRAEL in central America and South America. Someone else noted the repeat production of the Haiti 'coup de tat' orchestrated by US troops dressed up in UN uniforms.
I tend to think you are right...Israel is the tail wagging the U.S. dog.
I see Israel as the Master and the U.S. as the Slave.
The Israelis were always the slaves.
There is every indication that the US (under Reagan/Kissinger) did everything in its power to prolong the Iran-Iraq War, maximizing profits from arms sales and maximizing casualties.
Reportedly Kissinger remarked, "The more of them who kill each other the better."
having them kill each other off before we take control of their oil would have been better than having a Pearl Harbor incident was the thought at that time.
To paraphrase Lily Tomlin ... No matter how paranoid I get, I just can't seem to keep up.
By allowing the U.S. to use a Russian corridor to enter Afghanistan with weapons.
The U.S. thinks they've won a big one from Russia. Russia is laughing as we escalate the Afghanistan fiasco into a full-fledged Vietnam quagmire.
It won't be long before the dead American's bodies will again be filtered away from the media.
Just wait and see.
Right. Now we should start telling(forcing) other countries to do what we want...
.
What do you mean start? The US has been doing that for over a century. It just never gets old for Uncle Sam.
In the last 100 years or so the US has invaded, fomented a coup, embargoed, financed proxy wars and generally made life very difficult for hundreds of millions of people.
Different faces, same agendas, putting the Middle East and it's oil under western control. If Israel were to attack Iran, the U.S. would more than likely join in. Maybe not. I think Israel is more than capable of bombing Iran into the stone-age, thanks to U.S. military aid. What I do not understand, Iran isn't the real threat right now. North Korea is. North Korea has successfully detonated a nuclear device, could successfully deliver one short-range, has threatened to do so, and is currently perfecting it's long-range capabilities. Even China and Russia has been concerned over this for quite sometime now. It just so happens that Iran is on the Israeli Governments radar. What the Zionists want, they usually get as far as the U.S. is concerned.
"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001
CAMERA is a famous organization which corrects false reports in media regarding the middle east and is considered one of the most reliable sources of information available. You can read some of the fake quotes floating around the web, as well as detailed explanation regarding their origin here:
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_articl...
http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_contex...
CAMERA is as bad as MEMRI. Al Jazeera has more credibility than both.
But you portrayed this organization as a non-biased media watchdog which is "considered one of the most reliable sources of information available."
That doesn't seem too accurate.
Wikipedia notes:
Is this incorrect? We know Wikipedia has its limitations. In fact, the same article notes:
Now, why would a non-biased media watchdog want to selectively edit Wikipedia in accordance with its own ideologoly?
Also, why is Alan Dershowitz's The Case for Moral Clarity: Israel, Hamas and Gaza published by and featured so prominently at CAMERA's website?
The comment you are replying to is a c&p from Yahoo answers posted by user 'darkAl'. Not exactly my first choice for a reliable source.
Just saying.
Thanks Michelle.
It is now officially policy of the United States to use Israel as proxy. The "we cant do a damn thing" excuse is a cover for absolving oneselves of its crimes against humanity, be it against Lebanon, Palestine or Iran.
Biden and Obama are not out to change anything, only to rebrand it and expand it in other areas, like Afghanistan, while outsourcing more to "private security" in Iraq. The forces of war likely even will grow in the upcoming years factoring in armed civilians. We have 250,000 private contractors in both Afghanistan and Iraq. They will continue to outsource our wars while using Israel for untraceable hits ("We can't stop Israel from protecting herself from....blah blah blah")
The head of Mossad, Israel's overseas intelligence service, has assured Benjamin Netanyahu, its prime minister, that Saudi Arabia would turn a blind eye to Israeli jets flying over the kingdom during any future raid on Iran's nuclear sites.
Its OK with the Saudi's too!
Looks like they're goin' in!
Edit: Horrible source I know, but look at the picture Fox and the Sunday times chose to use, Israeli soldiers responding to a bombing raid in Israel. Shouldn't they show Iranians preparing to get walloped?
With Bush, his animosity was so plain, so evident that every move he made was transparent.
Obama is much smarmier, much more indirect. He sees the Iranian regime weakened by the election strife, and now encourages Israel to exploit the weakness. This will do nothing but stiffen the Iranian mullahs, who'll see it for what it is. More blood will flow in Iran, no matter what, now...
[Edited subject line. The descriptives were over the top-Sitemonitor]
From Voltaire Net
by James Petras
here
final two paragraphs:
***
related writings
Amy Goodman at Alternet here
---
[But they won't use that WORD when our guys do it]
Glenn Greenwald here
---
Tim Reid for Timesonline 6/8/09 here
thats a good one
and bush didnt steal either of his presidential elections either
and you wanna know why those who criticize israel sometimes get labled as anti semites?
because they quote from people like petras
a man who believes in the great jewish conspiracy
The only person that labels them anti-semites--IS YOU!!!!
I defy you to find one single anti-semitic post I have ever made as C&L. (You won't, because I'm not, and there aren't any.) I have criticised the state of Israel and will continue to do so.
Oh come on site monitor. I am the most squeamish of the squeamish.
I was responding to comrade woody and didn't notice a thing. And the next thing I see, there was something deleted because it was over the top.
Now I am wondering how to re-calibrate my squeamish meter.
JOE! please keep your mouth shut! it is not helping!
Iran hasn't attacked anyone, yet Israel claims the "right" to a "pre-emtive strike", something that was deemed a war crime during the Nuremburg Trials.
Iran is a "nuclear threat" despite having no nuclear weapons? And Israel's proven cache of 200 nukes isn't even discussed, never mind it's leaking nuclear facilities poisoning the Palestinians' nearby land?
Until 60 years ago, the jews were innocent victims of christian groups' actions and no muslims hated them. But nowadays, any sane person would recognize that Israel is actively trying to cause another genocide on jews, this time by muslims, while deludedly thinking the nation is "seeking peace". Israel will have no one to blame but itself or the US if it happens.
Attacking Syria was easy for Israel, they share a common border. Israel Does not share a border with Iran. To attack Iran, Israel would have to fly over other countries, many of which have good air defense systems.
Israel would have a tough time attacking Iran by flying over Iraq without a US green light. US aircraft control the air space over Iraq. Without the proper friend/foe transponder codes, Israeli aircraft would be recognized as a foe. Even the Bush Administration denied Israel the proper friend/foe identification (IFF) codes. If Israel attacked Iran by way of Iraq, the entire world would know that at the very least the US gave approval along with some cooperation.
"Didn't you just give them the go-ahead signal to bomb Iran?"
No. He just told Israel that if they go ahead and bomb Iran, they're on their own and can't count on US support.
Though, I did not hear him, prove or disprove U.S. support. Though this is just my reading of the clip. I noticed a "we'll deal with it" when and if it happens. Could you point out, where he discounts support for Israel? Thanks
Without it's principle financier, weapons supplier, trading partner and diplomatic protector?
That would be a sight to see. Just don't blink.
Talk about babbling out of both sides of your mouth, Joe. Let's see if I can wrap my brain around Joe's AIPAC approved logic: The Iranian people were subjected to violence by the ruling regime in Iran, but we're not going to interfere because we don't want Iranian mullahs to get pissed off (after all, Iran is a sovreign nation, you see. Hmm, so was Iraq, but that didn't stop us from bombing the shit out of them though. Ah, but I digress). Then Joe tells us that the US very much wants to engage the Iranian government, but that is up to them to make the first move. Meanwhile if Israel (a sovreign nation) wants to bomb another sovreign nation (Iran) that's cool too because the US abhors violence and respects the sovreignty of other nations. Joe, why don't you and your boss, Obama, just come out and say it: "The U.S. position is whatever AIPAC tells us it is and aw hell, fuck the Iranians because Israel's just gonna get around to bombing them eventually".
...if you hadn't before now. A total shill for AIPAC, just like Obaman and everyone else in Congress. This from the same guy who thought the murder of innocent men, women and children at the hands of the FBI and ATF in Waco, TX was the entire fault of David Koresh.
Whatever.
So if Iran threatens Israel, we're ready to invade. If Iraq threatens Kuwait, we're ready to invade. If No. Korea fires a missile over Japan, we're considering a military response. HOWEVER, if Israel threatens to invade yet another nation, well, gee, shucks fellas, whattya we gonna do about that anyhow?
Tell ya what Joe.....why don't you, Obama and the entire Congress just hold a live television press conference tomorrow and all of you can hold up your middle finger to all of us and let us know publicly that you give a shit less what we desire as a nation. You've given away billions and trillions of our money to Israel, and even more to the Federal Reserve criminals.
At least this way we can go about the task ahead of us with the full knowledge that "you folks" are on THAT side of the constitution, and we're on THIS side of the constitution.
Asshat.
for that is not how aide to israel works
Can't wait to hear your outline of how aid to Israel works.
.
It's simple. Give them a blank cheque, invite them to buy the newest weaponry (with American taxpayer dollars), and let them experiment with it on their neighbours. It's win/win for all the hawks and MIC.
(Don't forget to bully the international community and remind them the USA and Israel are above all laws and treaties. Hence bombing Iran is none of their business.)
....isn't that basically what I said? LOL.
This is interesting:
According to Stephanopoulos the US can deny Israel the right to fly over another sovereign country. Now, obviously Iraq isn't going to give Israel permission, but does our agreement with Iraq really allow us to dictate what happens in their national airspace? If so, we have a curious definition of sovereignty.
And Joe missed a great opportunity to say something unbelievably stupid in response to Stephanopoulos. Are his meds finally working?
Biden makes a simple statement of fact, which is that Israel is a sovereign nation that will make it's own judgments with regard to conflict with Iran and all hell breaks loose. He does not anywhere suggest that the US would support such a foolish action or encourage it, merely that it is their call to make and suddenly the Zionist- controlled-America conspiracy theorists are out in force. I think it an unlikely scenario that Israel would attack Iran. They get a lot more mileage out of using the perpetual threat of Iran to delay dealing with the Palestininans to disturb that situation.
is that he is implying that our hands are tied, that poor us, we don't have any influence over the doings of Israel, sovereign nation or not. That's bullshit. It isn't a whole lot different than when Sadam Hussein asked our ambassador to Iraq what we thought about Iraq invading Kuwait, and our ambassador replying that "the US had no opinion on the matter". We all know how that turned out.
honest answers from pols are usually refreshing, but he talks like the obama admin is totally clueless
look at what he said about the economy
and how do i know that obama is on the right course?
supporters of israel think he wants to sell it down the river
those that hate everything that israel stands for, think that his administration is controlled by aipac
he has you all fooled
best president ever
eff both sides
the DLC/DSCC/DCCC work for more than just corporations.
Why the hell does the US continue to be apologists for Israel's hawkish foreign policies? Of course anyone remotely critical of Israel's hostilty is branded an anti-semite, so most critics are muffled into silence..
As I understand it, many Jews feel the land of Israel belongs to the Jewish people because 'God said so'. Okayyyyyy....
How is that any different than the views of the crazy Christian and/or Muslim fundies?
If Isreal can do whatever it wants, then why can't Iran? If Iran is convinced Israel will attack them, wouldn't they be within their rights to employ a GW Bush approach and attack first? (I'm playing devil's advocate)
let me ask you a question
why is it that from 48-67, not one un resolution was passed demanding that egypt or jordan cease their occupation of "palestinian" land
why did it not bother the world that from 48-67, jews were not allowed into jerusalem
why, if a palestinian state is so important to the arabs, that not even one attempt was made to create one, when israel did not occupy that land
and lets take god out of the equation
will you accept that jews have an historical tie to the land?
that there was indeed a jewish nation there prior to their expulsion by the romans?
and that there has been no specific independent country there until the state of israel was created?
So....you think because the ancestors of Jews lived in the region of Israel - their decendents have the right to take the land away from the palastinians living there today?
Using your logic, all of the Americas should be turned over to Native Americans, as they have a 'historical tie' with the land
you just answered it with another question
try again
Looks like Israel won't be flying through Iraq. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/m...
I'd like to start a new poll:
How many here think that the Iranian election was a fraud? And how many think that the results were legit?
So what was all the stink about the Russians in South Ossetia. It's their sovereign right.
Or how about when the USA boycotted the Moscow Olympics becase they had invaded Afghanistan? That one is really VERY RICH, don't you think?????
america has held back israel before in regards to it using force
specifically during the first gulf war
That seems entirely antithetical to Biden's statement, which I assume is that of the Obama administration. Perhaps Obama is giving Israel a longer leash to "operate"??? That can't be good.
Not that the peace loving and peace promoting Israel needs to be constrained from invading, or acting harshly against its neighbours. We can't keep them away from peace negotiations, can we??? Those peaceniks, gentle as lambs.
The US hasn't been holding back an Israeli attack, that time is long past. If the Israelis feel threatened you'd better believe they will shoot without asking the US for permission.
It is the multitude of Iranian SAM installations put in place to protect their facilities against such an attack that is the major deterrent. Soviet missile technology - as sold to Iran - is highly developed, the result of having to economically defend against costly advanced US military systems. Missiles are very cheap when compared to aircraft and trained pilots. Iran also has intermediate range Mach 2 surface skimming anti-ship missiles for which there is no defense. These were designed by the Soviets to meet the threat of US naval fleets, which they could not hope to match on a ship for ship basis.
With nukes you don't need to worry about SAMs, but the hardened Iranian targets require precision delivery (via aircraft) of US made bunker buster type devices. And a nuclear first strike by Israel would be the end of the Jewish state.
Regardless, Biden has set tongues wagging across the globe. Way to go, Joe.
cuz his mouth moves before his brain wakes up
Joe sez that the US won't stop Israel from doing whatever the f-ck it wants regarding Iran.
The puppeteer speaks.
If Israel were to attack Iran, it would boomerang onto to us.
It would be like Russia in the 50s saying that it wouldn't prevent Cuba from using its missiles against the US.
Could you tell me where in the clip, Biden "sez that the US won't stop Israel"? Thanks
It seemed pretty clear.
He said we do not have the right to dictate to them. I believe the threads title is disingenuous.
I didn't read the Author's translation, but for the title. I got my information right from the "source". Thanks fiver
PS. Did you hear him say..."Joe Biden:[that is] Israel Can Bomb Iran, We Can't Stop Them"?
Actions speak louder then words.
I think this was the administration telling Iran they better watch out. There is no question Iran has been belligerent. Obama has said he was willing to talk to them and do whatever but they just don't care. The administration wanted to send a signal to Iran and this was what Biden did today.
Does the U.S. come to the rescue if things don't work out, and Iran can successfully strike back at Israel? Or, do we say, you broke it, you own it?
We intervene and I think relations with the Shiites in Iraq will unravel.
We have Iran surrounded with our armies and our military bases, and THEY are ones being belligerent?
Chris Hedges at Truthdig here
---
Noam Chomsky January 24, 2009 - Obama on Israel-Palestine here
Noam Chomsky with Amy Goodman on Nato and Israel-Palestine here
---
Tomgram: Pepe Escobar, Pipelineistan Goes Af-Pak here
Settlement Freeze Flap Reveals Israel As Difficult Peace Partner
Snip - "This surprising flare-up between the two close (I would say, too close) allies will undoubtedly be resolved with some diplomatic compromise, however, the brouhaha over the freeze may signify the first sign of possible problems ahead."
[ http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/settlement-... ]
"I don't oppose all wars. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war."
--Barack Obama
I suppose it depends on your definition of sovereign nation, Joe.
Israel is sovereign, so is Iran, Iraq, and many others.
You either put it out there to mean just that...
or you've a Cheneyesque streak in ya...?
Contrast Chomsky's dictum: the Israeli Army is a branch of the US Armed Forces.
Of course it is. Anyone can see that. Biggest forward base you've got.
I mean, does anyone even question that? That's common public knowledge.
Mon Jul 6, 2009 1:36am
[ http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTR... ]
This is more like it.
Did you get your title from "Raw Story"?
Reuters view: Snip - We cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do when they make a determination, if they make a determination, that they're existentially threatened," Biden said.
... didn't mention that Biden's response was to a hypothetical set up by Stephanopoulis and instead arranged it so that it seemed that Biden had agreed that Iran was some sort of existential threat to Israel.
Immediately before Biden's "existential threat" quote, the article states: "Biden said Israel can determine for itself how best to deal with the threat of a nuclear-armed Iran."
Immediately after Biden's "existential threat" quote, the article then concentrates on Israel's Deputy Foriegn Minister who elaborates on why Iran is such a threat.
The article also never mentions that Israel currently has nuclear weapons.
"This is more like it" may be true. But "it" does not appear to be either accuracy or context.
Uhm no we don't, China does since any subsidization is really coming from them, the US is insolvent and borrowing every dime it spends.
A U.S decision to allow its proxy to attack Iran could well prove to be the start of WWIII and the worst foreign policy error of the 21st century. Once those ICBMs are fired from Israel, with or without nuclear warheads, then, arguably, everyone living today will suffer the consequences.
From Alaska to Mexico and from London to Oman and Karachi – the world will have years to reflect on our stupidity and the arrogance of our elected representatives.
If the Obama admin is going to be playing the "I wash my hands of it" card, they're out of their minds. With the billions we give israel every year to say we have no influence is bullshit. I seem to remember that during the first gulf war they were told that if they intervened they would be treated as hostiles if they entered the theater. That stopped them cold.
I can see the carrot and stick, but it's nuts to give Israel a green light to do what ever it wants. Using that as a veiled threat will only harden Iran's position.
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