North Korea Ups the Ante With Latest Missile Launch
By Susie Madrak Thursday Jul 02, 2009 8:00amBecause we don't have anything else to worry about, right?
SEOUL (Reuters) - North Korea test-fired two short-range missiles on Thursday, further stoking tension in the region that was already high due to Pyongyang's nuclear test and threats to boost its nuclear arsenal in response to U.N. sanctions.
North Korea fired two surface-to-ship missiles off its east coast that flew about 100 km (60 miles) and splashed into the sea, a South Korean defense official said.
A South Korean daily said that the secretive North may also test fire mid-range missiles in a matter of days.
Washington said this week it had tightened its crackdown on firms linked to the North's lucrative proliferation of missiles, a major source of cash for the destitute state, and has sent the U.S. point man for sanctions to Asia for discussions.
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I'm gettin sick of North Korea's bullshit.
North Korea has a vile and brutal regime. A communist state Mao would be scared of for sure. But ask yourselves these questions...
What has N. Korea done that we haven't done?
What makes us superior to them?
Why can Israel, who has nukes and kills Palestinians all the time be our ally and N. Korea be our "enemy"?
What possible threat does N. Korea pose to us?
This is MsM stenography. Our "leaders" can't push N. Korea around so they are the enemy. We have "deemed" them "enemies" because they don't agree with us. Our State Department has ZERO credibility because of our sins of the past 60 years.
...joking! Of COURSE they're a threat. The government said so didn't they?!
Jeez, WUT WERE YEW THANKIN? They're COMMIES for cryin out loud.
Tell me how they are a threat! Tell me how dangerous they are as compared to us!
Do they kill their own people? We do that!
Do they threaten their neighbors? We do that!
Do they export weapons to terror states? We do that!
Do they oppress, torture and spy on their citizens? We do that!
Explain our moral high ground. Tell me how much better we are.
he was being snarky.
I wasn't sure, his name infers he is a Marine.
...name as I am retired after 22 years.
And yes, it was snark. I totally agree with you.
His name IMPLIED he is a Marine. YOU inferred it. I know it's tricky, but I'm doing my part to edumacate. Also. And while we're at it, even though you didn't commit this sin:
THERE IS ONLY ONE O IN LOSE!
Now to be on point, you're quite correct. To which the right, ironically enough, would reply, "Well, um, we're white, and we gots might so there you have it!"
we haven't isolated ourselves from the world, starved our citizenry to build up the military, etc. etc. etc.
Nothin, personally I don't think any nation is better than any other, and as an American, I don't think we should be goin around tellin any country what to do, especially with our track record.
I am NO fan of the way our govt coddles Israel. I say we should cut the apron strings.
While they can not directly harm us, they can sure harm our allies in the area.
I totally agree with your last paragraph.
I just hate a damn dictator...
I hate dictators too!
And we do starve our own people (looking for that number)and we do deny health care to our own people (20000 die a year in the US because of no insurance or denied coverage)and since this country started we have killed or funded the killing of people on every continent. We have supported and continue to support despots all over the world.
Starve our own people.
the rest of your statement, I can't argue that.
starved our citizenry to build up our military. You won't read it in our MSM just as you won't read of NKs doing so in their MSM. But I assure you people do starve in this country and I can also assure you that a large part of the reason is that we waste more money on our military then any other nation on earth.
And I don't. Wouldn't that provide the same excuse for not criticizing Israel for any of their misdeeds? Why yes it would. Robert Mugabe? Same deal. I'm not sure if you've noticed but N Korea is one of the most repressive dictatorships that has ever existed and is still technically at war with your own. You can breast beat all you want about whatever failings the US might have but to suggest a moral equivalency is just plain silly. N Korea is threatening their neighbors, slowly killing their own populace and if not discouraged this will probably spell the end of the NPT as those neighbors arm themselves to counter the threat.
This missile can go "60 miles". So how exactly is North Korea "upping the ante" by firing it? Last time I checked the US is a lot further from North Korea than 60 miles and North Korea can already shell Seoul using conventional artillery and reduce it to rubble. I'm not saying I'm a fan of North Korea and I recognize they create issues for regional stability in asia, but the idea that they have the capability much less the inclination to launch an attack on Hawaii or the continental US is just BS.
But surface to ship missiles.
They are improving their reach with their long range missiles..up to 4000 km I believe.
That's nothin to sneeze at.
North Korea firing missiles 60-100 miles from their borders is a development that the Asian part of the planet is struggling with mightily. China needs to step into this meme and try a bit harder to help it's neighbors soon..BUT,
The rantings by John Bolton in today's WaPo about striking Iran is easily over the top in terms of inciting nations to make a sharp turn to the stupid side. I am quite frankly surprised that the WaPo editorial board approved publication of this piece and wonder if Murdoch's companies and influence has finally taken over the publication.
He should not be given an outlet for his ridiculous BS.
I am quite frankly surprised that the WaPo editorial board approved publication of this piece and wonder if Murdoch's companies and influence has finally taken over the publication.
====================================================================
In a word, YES.
Hell fuckin yes.
Isn't that three words?
the post is owned by The Washington Post Company, and published by Katharine Weymouth. Murdoch Owns all things NEWSCORP, TY Guide, WSJ, NY Post, Times Of London, The Sun (UK), The Australian and many others. But not WAPO.
They fired Dan Froomkin. I'd say the purge and take over by whomever (but not Murdoch) is complete now
He owns the WSJ...not Wapo
...truth and liberalness, Sun Myung Moon owns the Wapo doesn't he?
Teh Moonies?
Nooooo!
I remember hearin about the evil moonies when I was a kid in the 70's...
and the Krishnas...
do the Krishnas have a newspaper too?
.
...it is the Times.
for as much as $250,00 The Post offered lobbyists and association executives off-the-record access to "those powerful few" - Obama administration officials, members of Congress, and even the paper’s own reporters and editors.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0709/244...
which led to:
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/07/02/washin...
NK missles always "up the ante". US missles never do, even when they destroy destitutte villages of innocent peaceful farmers. Somethings never change.
... alas I am getting sick of these 3rd world countries who are far more interested in developing nuclear weapons and send crap to space than taking care of their own f*cking people.
Learn to walk before attempting to run a marathon comes to mind... talk about misplaced priorities, and how come nobody has taken out that midget tin pot dictator with the huge inferiority complex? Even during the worst of the Roman emperors, at least the Praetorian guard had the decency of taking out the emperor when things got too out of hand...
the entire country is so brainwashed...they believe he's a god.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-y2QghS2gU
...I shouldn't have looked but the ole trainwreck syndrome kicked in. Now I've completely lost my fucking apetite.
Thanks a lot!
my thought about those Jesus camps is do they put a cardboard cutout of Obama up there for the li'l chilin' to pray over now? Nah.....what was I thinkin'?
...were you?! =)
Look at our military budget compared to what we're unwilling to spend on health care. I'm getting sick of new world countries..
Thank you Blue!
Talk about lack of perspective. We have plenty of warts in this country, however trying to establish a parallel between NK situation and ours is ridiculous, and BTW their per capita military spending is actually higher than ours...
they don't count all their peoples.
Ain't they afraid their uncle will catch them?
..the worthless United Nations. Maybe they'll pass a resolution; that should frighten Kim Jong ill, doncha' think?
... by the simple fact that it has no enforcement powers. Resolutions can be passed, but if a nation ignores them, what follows?
Inevitably, this biases things towards those nations with the wherewithal to mount large campaigns, such as the permanent members of the Security Council. And since smaller nations don't want to be seen as being the lapdog of any of them, they hem and they haw and nothing gets done.
So the usefulness of the United Nations is diluted by its members' need and desire for sovereignity.
... them blue helmets and all.
...no less!
..how about we start at home?
Namely if a church doesn't reject the teachings of Falwell, Robinson, etc. they lose their tax-exempt privileges and that anyone going to said church is branded an enemy of the state?
.
..but these people are the reason why there's a first amendment in the first place, and that they want to repeal or replace it by any means necessary..
...correct Mr. Savage. They do indeed use the first amendment against us in their zeal to move toward theocracy; however, it is OUR belief in the constitution that must be what bars their way.
We can't simply say we have free speech and then put exceptions on it (except yelling fire in a theatre kind of thing). You will always have a small percentage of the population who are easily manipulated by low life religious crazies, it's just a fact of life.
The real strength of the constitution is its ability to withstand the abuse of these losers by allowing them to spew their venom.
..when that venom strikes?
This site, as well as certain journalists will be the first ones taken down when they get their way.
The only way to stop these "losers" is to nip them in the bud before they become dangerous..
...with you, but I don't believe the bud nipping needs to be curtailing of their rights. There are many other things that need to happen that will result in their voices being reduced in volume and reach.
First and foremost is to break up media conglomerates and get some moderation into the messages. For example, if liberal talk radio were available in all the markets that right wing talk is, the power of advertising and rating would quickly reduce the number of right wingers.
Other things that also need doing include term limits in congress, public funding of election campaigns, eliminated the practice of lobbying in congress, etc., etc.
Does your thinking apply to Islam?
..to all religions...but especially "Christianity"..
a chokehold on our private lives and politicians like xtianity does.
Thanks for playing though, you're a real sport.
.
give the muslims time. Look at England and Europe.
we have a "first amendment" because of people like Falwell? Did I just missed something from your reply?
It may not have been that way at first, but I'm certain the "Founding Fathers" must have been aware that a Falwell or a Cotton Mather would pop up sooner or later,and it's those kind of people that would be a greater threat to freedom than any outside agitator ever would..
...aware of the danger inherent in a official religion, which is why they were so insistent on the separation of church in state. This is a great loop back to your original point about tax breaks for religions.
We really do need to be listening to their messages and as soon as they step into the realm of politics in the slightest way, drop their tax exclusion status. That will likely serve to shut them up more effectively than anything else.
Your conclusion doesn't match your premise.
I agree that our Founding Fathers were essentially secularists
But back then there was no income tax to exempt churches from.
..that they had to start taxing at some point, but at least they would have control over it, theoretically speaking.
Presumably no tax money would go to churches under the FF, and no enforceable taxes that are essentially church tithes could be passed by churches with the state's help.
any missile-capability for the short man from pyongyang is too much, imo. dude is crazy.
that said, right here in our own hemisphere, just down south a little from el paso, we have a military coup underway that has overthrown a democratically elected president. and the main instigator is a graduate of the school of america (or whatever the new orwellian name they gave it), and, most likely, acting either thru the direction of, or, at least, with the tacit acceptance of, american officials.
imagine if iran, of north korea, or name your "bad guy", were suspected of being involved--instead of us--and imagine the media-govt-corp's reaction. it might actually get more coverage than the biggest story EVER (/sarcasm), michael jackson's death. but, since the US is likely involved we here brief and skewed snippets.
so, yeah, the north korean SHORT range missile test is bothersome, but...
...too much attention to these assholes. If they were going to do anything, they would already have done it. With out military committments in Iraq and Afghanistan, we would be hard pressed to hold back a blitz by the North if they wanted to attack the South.
If they get nukes, so what? They are still a backward, isolated country that if left to their own devices, will eventually self-destruct.
What if they launch a missile towards Alaska or Hawaii?
Would we respond with "Shock and Awe"? Would we worry about what "the holders of that giant note from Iraq", China would say? Would China say anything if we blitz'd North Korea?
W spent so much, wasted so much and now, its enabling the little man from North Korea.
And speaking of W, isn't it time he be charged with War Crimes?
Some of you use the "Republicanism is mental illness" often; I think from now on, I'll sign off with that question until the day comes (I ain't holding my breath) when someone in this country "grows a pair" and puts that putz on trial for War Crimes! May not be this President but hopefully the one we elect in 2012 will. Sorry, Mr. Obama, appointing a Special Prosecutor is an easy thing especially with all the evidence out there damning our nation with torture. And to the Site Monitor - I apologize for being off-topic.
I agree with a lot of what you say but when you say "W spent so much, wasted so much and now, its enabling the little man from North Korea." I think you are buying into the MSM propaganda. We always hear that Kim Jung Il is "thumbing his nose" or "getting away" with things as if the US has the divine right to control every action of every country on earth. He's testing some short range missiles, big deal, we test missiles all the time.
As to your questions. I think if he launched "a missile towards Alaska or Hawaii" we would all just laugh as it fell harmlessly somewhere in the Pacific ocean. He could however attack Japan or Korea. I mean he has the capability to do so. WHY he would do so I can't imagine. And I think I can accurately say what the US would do in such a case. Hillary Clinton said as much about a similar scenario with Iran in one of the rare moments of candor in her campaign. We would obliterate a good part of North Korea, possibly with tactical nukes. Of course we would only go after "military targets" but in the process we would kill a lot of people.
...Kim altogether. He's like a little child throwing a tantrum to get attention. Responding, in any form, is exactly what he wants. The more impotent he is proven to be, the more likely he will do something stupid enough for his own people to bring him down; or, if he does send a missle our way, we will have NATO and a UN resolution and likely Chinese approval to go in and take him down.
I don't think the second option is very likely though.
It is after all... somewhat their responsibility. I guess they are a world power now (China) since they get to have their very own blowbacks... yay for progress!
...with that Tyler. I think the Chinese are comfortable enough with their super powerness not to need a communist buffer between them and the South. If there is any chance that Kim were insane enough to launch a nuke at someone, I don't think the Chinese would want to have to deal with the residual radiation that would ensue from a retaliatory strike.
Would likely just smack him and put him in his place. Aside from losing a buffer with a U.S. ally, they also don't want a flood of refugees flooding over the boarder if the Kimdom collapses.
and his entire family, like a bug if he gets rambunctious for their likin.
And replace him with a more malleable puppet.
what if Martians land in Kansas tomorrow?
what if George Bush chokes on a pretzel and the entire American press corps has to rush to Texas to covver it?
what if we stopped playing the what if game and delt with realities?
Talk over in Japan resurfaces about amending the constitution to turn the JSDF into a full fledged military. I wonder how much more of this to push them into doing that.
It wouldn't bother me all that much though, this isn't the 1930s and Japan is an ally now.
...every country has their chicken hawks and Japan is no different. I don't believe it will ever be taken that seriously though. People there know the only real threat would be a nuke strike and having a regular military versus a defense force wouldn't prevent that possibility anyway.
Besides, all they have to do is look at the U.S. and see how funding an insanely large military can bring down so many other aspects of their lives.
It's the noise over pre-emptive strikes that the right wing over in Japan make that might tip things in their favor.
Even if such an amendment passed I don't think the issue would be to build up a huge arsenal as opposed to just acquiring "offensive weapons" like cruise missiles and undertaking "offensive operations". Right now if Japan wanted to attack any North Korean facilities, the F-2 probably has the range to do it.
but I think that's somethin the Japanese should decide.
I think it's time we got out of their country, I'm sure many Japanese are ready for us to go.
As long as N Korea is a threat.
Did you get yer beer?
I sure as hell did.
And get a frickin cigar. Just to piss her off.
The US has sub's already in the Sea of Japan.
Plural. It would be over before they could make a pot of tea.
we do, dozens of them probably.
They wouldn't do that.
But they do have at least 1or2 in striking distance.
And considering that they carry at least 20 warheads a piece. It wouldn't last long.
I'm surprised the N Korean military hasn't had a coup of their own. Lil Kim is nuts.
me beer is juuuust about done...the fermentation process stopped for some reason, so I added more yeast and kept it a bit warmer after talkin with the tech support guy that sounded like one of the McKenzie bros.
LOL!
Yeah. A cigar would be a nice touch, lol!!!
... they just can't conduct offensive missions.
If they were attacked, Japan actually has a pretty competent (at least in theory and equipment base) military force to retaliate. Never mind, that any attack on Japan will surely be close enough to an American base, and defense treaties would mean that the US has no recourse but to turn NK into a glass parking lot.
King Jon Il is not stupid, he is just using the nuclear weapons as negotiation tools, probably to get foreign aid flowing into the country under complete control from the regime. I.e. it is nothing but a black mail exercise. The asshole may have a huge inferiority complex, but I doubt he is *that* stupid as to touch Japan or Hawaii/Alaska. That is a complete death wish, and the regime is so isolated that nobody else in the world would come to their aid and provide some sort of MAD deterrent.
While the JSDF did get elevated to a cabinet level position (up until recently they were the Defense Agency as opposed to the Defense Ministry), it's personnel are still technically considered civilians. But for all intents and purposes, yeah are a military force.
I've got a good grasp of how powerful the JSDF is, they're actually larger than the British military. They're not someone to pick a fight with, unless you want an F-2 to come and shove an anti-shipping missile up your ass on you way to the islands. And as I mentioned the F-2 could probably strike targets well within North Korea (though I haven't been able to find numbers for that plane's maximum range, it might be classified).
I don't think he'll touch Japan either, but I wonder how riled up the right-wing in Japan gets every time he pulls this kind of stunt.
... anyone striking Japan has to deal with a direct retaliation by the USA.
Without saying. Currently the JSDF's order of battle is to hold out until U.S. reinforcements arrive, and the U.S. is bound by treaty to provide those reinforcements.
Against North Korea, in a strictly conventional fight, even the after party for that one would be over by the time reinforcements arrived.
themselves every time Kim plays with his toys? I think the Chinese let him do it just to needle the US; they'd reel him in if he really gets out of hand.
LiberalNmoderation @9:27
Talking about N Korea being brainwashed, where were you the last 8 years? 50% of this country was brainwashed with the BS from Bush's Adminstration and boy oh boy did they suck it up!
There's nothing wrong with a small nation flexing it's muscles to let the Big Bad Bogeyman of the World, the US that they (N.Korea,) aren't afraid of you!
Our record against 3rd world powers isn't exactly glowing,
Korean War - Tie at the best,still there
Vietnam War - Lost
Lebanon - Sent home with our tails betwen our legs! (Thank-you Ronnie Raygun)
1st Gulf War - Tie
War on Terror - We are being run out of Iraq after 7 years, no win here! Abandoned Afgahn so now we have had to start all over again!
Go ahead Huff/Puff and whine all you want clowns, the truth is something you 20%ers never deal with!
A Medically Retired Marine Corporal (Vietnam 67-68)
There have been fewer one sided ass kickings in the history of the world as both gulf wars, how can you even consider that a tie?
You have so many things wrong with you bizarre post I have no idea where to begin.
...that some power decides to take out this clown now. He has proven to be nothing but the stereotypical diminutive dictator shouting at the grown-ups from the kids table. 60 miles!! WOW, Kim. Congratulations. You get a star.
His days are numbered, IMO. A tiny country playing with fire, starving it's people? The regime's days are numbered. If they keep trying to play the part of "rebellious country building up arms", then sooner or later some bigger country will treat them like that. Kim will be dead, and I doubt anyone would miss him.
But so long as North Korea is China's little bitch, I doubt any country other than China will walk in and take over.
the reason north korea's willing to even piss off their ally china with their latest series of seemingly senseless provocative actions is pretty clear if you think about it a bit; kim's just had a stroke and everything in the DPRK revolves around the dear leader. the dearleader's decided to pass the torch to his son so all of this ratcheting up of tensions is merely to set the stage for the son to appear on stage to gloriously stare down and wrest victory over the american aggressors and thus establish and legitimize his own bona fides as new ruler.
it's all about keeping it in the family.
...may be a threat to other small countries in the region, the idea of it being a threat to the US is almost laughable. Even if they manage to equip an ICBM with a nuke, it would be shot from the sky long before it ever reached even Hawaii. As insane as Kim is, even he must realize that the second he launched such a missile, his country will be wiped from the earth in a counter attack. This is why we're not too concerned with him and his antics. As Noam Chomsky has repeatedly pointed out, seeking a nuke is largely seen as a way to deter to a US ATTACK. If we just minded our own business abroad, maybe Kim wouldn't feel threatened enough to develop these missiles in the first place... But oh yeah, we have an Empire to expand...
Go around getting involved in everyone's problems Lil Kim would still be demonizing the U.S. because of the 1950's, technically the U.S. and South Korea are still at war with the North. He needs a big enough scape goat to justify his military first policies and to prop up Kim Il Sung's juche ideology, so even if the U.S. decided to keep to itself after the '50s he's still be demonizing us.
Of course in the end he do anything serious. Probably just rile up Japan and South Korea. China definitely doesn't want him to go around starting fights he can't win and destabilizing the region.
A new threat has been announced that North Korea's military now has handguns in their possession! People in Maryland and Boston are to stay vigilant. Good grief. Oh the sky is falling. Another country MAY have a way to defend itself from.............US!
If you were Japanese or South Korean.
As someone who's lived here for 12 years, and visited Japan about 20 times, I have never seen anyone losing any sleep about North Korea. People don't even talk about it.
They're not worried about it.
They know the US will not let anything happen.
They probably aren't protesting too much right now to kick us out.
But, as far as I know, from the Koreans and Japanese that I know, they would let you know what they were thinking anyway.
It's split about 50-50. There are lots of hawks and conservatives that want more US and more military, there are lots of pacifists, here and in Japan. I guess that's a balance of power?
It's not that different from the split in the USA. Generally people do not live in fear of Kim Jong il's bellicosity, no.
South Korea is starting its own space programme. They're not exactly backward abd helpless.
With Lil Kim gettin all riled up. If the shoe fits.
He must know that S Korea will be getting a more intense missle defense system. Not to mention their space program.
Which can only mean a superior force for S Korea.
So Lil Kim is uping the ante.
It's just a matter of time before he becomes obsolescent.
I live and work amongst them, and interact with them, daily. My lover is Korean. He is bored by it all.
What most will never truly understand, because after 12 years I still don't myslef, is Korea's 5,000 year history and all the pride and prejudice therein. Not just within Korea, but their relations with China and Japan, and the Western powers.
Japan (primarily) and China( secondary) ran rough shod over that country and it's people for centuries.
Hell, thousands of years
But ask him, and others. If the US was completely gone with no treaties tying it to S Korea, would they feel the same?
If the US left, some would be upset, but many wouldn't care. They are somewhat ambivalent toward your presence here.
What they want most from the alliance is BUSINESS. That's why they sent a force to Iraq, and said so, right in the National Assembly. (They don't give a rats's ass about the Middle East.) They want you to buy their cars, TVs, cell phones, chips, computers, appliances, etc. They don't even hide that. That's the Asian way: friends buy more shit.
None of this is a judgement call, just the way it is. If you are with the USA you get good business deals. If you aren't with the USA, they might pour good French wine down the drain, boycott other delicacies, and change the names of food items.
Most of the world is not against the USA. We know, even if we were, we couldn't stop you from doing as you please anyway. If you want bases, you're going to get bases, even if you have to invade a sovereign country to do it. So we kind of watch on with a kind of numbness. Not that you are good guys or bad guys, but we know nothing will stop you from "protecting American interests" or "spreading democracy".
Methinks Li'l Kim's elevator shoes are on too tight.
In the Korean war, Korea was one of the poorest nations on earth: $100 per family, per year. They were unarmed agrarian peasants. North Korea was aided by China (and Russia).
These days, South Korea is wealthy. Every male must do 2 years military service. They have an active army of 655,000, and 4,500,000 reserves. They have all the same modern weaponry of any Western nation. The US has bases here and Japan, and a security alliance.
China and Russia do not want an East Asian war on their doorsteps. North Korea is surrounded.
I think they want the right to exist and not be invaded, like Iraq was.
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