Rachel Maddow Pushes Colin Powell on Torture Discussions
RACHEL: On the issue of intelligence—tainted evidence and those things—were you ever present at meetings at which the interrogation of prisoners, like Abu Zubaida, other prisoners in those early days, where the interrogation was directed? Where specific interrogation techniques were approved. It has been reported on a couple of different sources that there were Principals Meetings, which you would have typically been there, where interrogations were almost play-by-play discussed.
POWELL: They were not play-by-play discussed but there were conversations at a senior level as to what could be done with respect to interrogation. I cannot go further because I don't have knowledge of all the meetings that took place or what was discussed at each of those meetings and I think it's going to have to be the written record of those meetings that will determine whether anything improper took place.
But it was always the case that, at least from the State Department's standpoint, we should be consistent with the requirements of the Geneva Convention. And that's why this was such a controversial, controversial issue. But you’ll have to go, and in due course I think we all will go, to the written record of what memos were signed. I'm not sure what memos were signed or not signed. I didn't have access to all of that information.
MADDOW: If there was a meeting, though, at which senior officials were saying, were discussing and giving the approval for sleep deprivation, stress positions, water boarding, were those officials committing crimes when they were giving that authorization?
POWELL: You’re asking me a legal question. I mean I don't know that any of these items would be considered criminal. And I will wait for whatever investigations that the government or the Congress intends to pursue with this.
MADDOW: There have been two Bush administration officials now who have said explicitly that what we did at Guantanamo was torture. One of them was the State Department general counsel for Guantanamo litigation, a man named Vijay—excuse me—Padmanabhan.
POWELL: I don't know him.
MADDOW: Also Susan Crawford, who heads up the military tribunals at Guantanamo. Both have said it was torture. Do you think that they are wrong? Do you feel like you have enough information to know if people were waterboarded? Is that torture?
POWELL: I will let those who are making the legal determination of that make that judgment. Susan Crawford has made a statement and she is in a position of authority to make such a statement, has access to all of the information. The lawyer you mentioned who is working in, I guess, the legal advisor's office in the State Department, but I don't believe I know him, has made statements recently. What's the basis for his statements and what meetings he was in and whether he was in Guantanamo, I just don't know.
MADDOW: I guess have to ask that—just a broader question about whether or not you have regrets, not about what the Bush administration did broadly in the years that you were Secretary of State, but the decisions that you participated in about interrogation, about torture, about the other things.
POWELL: We had no meetings on torture. It’s constantly said that the meetings—I had an issue with this—we had meetings on what torture to administer. What I recall, the meetings I was in—I was not in all of the meetings and I was not an author of many of the memos that have been written (and some have come out, some have not come out). The only meetings I recall were where we talked about what is it we can do with respect to trying to get information from individuals who were in our custody. And I will just have to wait until the full written record is available and has been examined.
MADDOW: I don't mean to press you on this to the point of discomfort but there is an extent to which there is a legal discussion around this where everybody feels a little constrained by the legal terms and whether or not they are a legal professional. There is also the policy implications that you've been so eloquent about, in terms of what the implications are of these policies for the U.S. abroad in a continuing way. And you've been very optimistic in thinking that America still has a reservoir of good will around the world that we can call on regardless of these difficulties that we've had around these issues.
If specific interrogation techniques were being approved by people at the political level in the Cabinet, it doesn't—the legal niceties of it almost become less important.
POWELL: I don't know where these things were being approved at a political level.
MADDOW: If there was a Principals Meeting at the White House to discuss interrogation techniques?
POWELL: It does not mean it was approved, anything was approved, at a meeting.
MADDOW: OK.
POWELL: It depends on did the meeting end up in a conclusion or was it just a briefing that then went to others to make a final decision on and to document. And so it is a legal issue and I think we have to be very careful and I have to be very careful because I don't want to be seen as implicating anybody or accusing anybody because I don't have the complete record on this. And that complete record I think in due course will come out.
there's just no other way to look at him.
He knew what he was saying at the UN. He knew it was to further convince the world that invading Iraq was necessary. He also had his doubts.
This man had our trust, and he will NEVER have mine again. We all lie...but not when it involved the death and destruction that this lie started.
He can do what he wants with his life...but he will never have my respect or my trust again. He can take that shame to his grave with him. Tough love Mr. Powell. You f*cked up big time.
started his rise through the ranks of the US army by whitewashing the My Lai massacre. He's been an ass-kissing liar from day one, and history will not judge him any more favorably than that.
nothing but... when will these idiots stop covering their collective asses and come clean with the truth. He knows what went on, perhaps not all EVERY meeting, but certainly at those he was party to.
people who rely or pretend to rely on the "law" or what is "legal" do not know the difference, or can pretend to not know the difference between right and wrong.
Three questions for statists:
What is the "law"?
What does it do?
How does it do it?
Funny how much he sounds like Alberto Gonzalez in that interview... "You're asking a legal question... I can't comment on that... I don't know what was signed and what wasn't... you'll have to wait until the written reports come out..." Disgusting. He knows he helped the Cheney Administration sell the war and continues to protect war criminals. If he ever had any integrity, it's long gone...
people think Powell was an honorable man until the Iraq lies at the UN, when in fact that was completely in character, and I use the term loosely.
He knew better and let it go on anyway.
Shame on him.
..of waffles with that? Let the Prosecutions begin!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
Maybe he was just trying to look forward at the time.
She follows up on tthe questions asked.
i find it incredible a man, a four star general, does not know what torture is. what a dissembling act we have here.
To me, it sounds to me like a guy who WANTS to say that he was completely against the Cheney/Bush Torture program, but legally doesn't want to get into trouble.
He also refers several times to the idea that investigations would probably reveal the answers. This sounds to me like a legalese way of saying,
"C'mon Congress! Do your job and INVESTIGATE. Crimes were committed!"
I don't know if anyone else feels that way, but that's how I interpreted it.
I just want there to be some justice for those who were tortured, killed and/or illegally detained.
At least until the DoJ has decided whether or not to indict.
Remember Iran-Contra? Ollie North and all of the other assholes involved had their convictions overturned because Congress fucked everything up by offering too much immunity.
Preferably there will be trials first, hearings second. If the DoJ punts, then hold the hearings.
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
"MADDOW: I don't mean to press you on this to the point of discomfort "
Kind of ironic given the subject at hand is TORTURE ...jeebuz ...
That whole crew of criminals deserve a lot more than just 'discomfort'
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
and the boss. That would be the end of her run.
She was being a professional. Do you think if she spit in his face and called him a liar (like I would have wanted to do) he would have given up any more information? She was politely telling him (and the audience) that his answers weren't good enough.
interview?
Did anyone catch that one line Powell had? I didn't see it in the transcript but he seemed to suggest that the meetings may not have come to any "conclusions" and that other people may have made a determination later.
Who is higher than the above mentioned group of people? that was kind of a weird statement.
... that if it wasn't made at the level of the 'principals' (and remember that the Principals Committee were the same people who were so busy planning to topple Saddam that they couldn't be bothered to listen to Richard Clarke), that the decision was made above that.
And that means Cheney and Bush.
I suggest Congress get off their asses and conduct a thorough investigation before there's international pressure to hand Bush and his people over to the Hague.
will not be bipartison. Republicans will not participate. Republicans "Cant handle the truth."
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/040209c.html
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/040309b.html
nor will it have much in the way of teeth either.
that's the bottom line. the republicans can't handle the truth. i remember people waving their flags yelling saddam has nukes. they bought into the deception that was fed to them. NOW bring it up they don't want to talk about it. i feel it's VERY important to NOT let them write the history of this "war" their way. iraq and iran have been a gem for the u.k./u.s. for over a hundred
yrs. they did NOT like saddam nationalizing oil and getting off the u.s. currency. of course there is much to it and the republicans will NOT admit to being wrong.
Definitely caught that. He doesn't want to point any fingers? Either that means he's throwing subordinates under the bus and denying that this stuff never came across his desk, or he's saying that Bush and/or Cheney approved it.
Lying is nothing new to Colin Powell. There is plenty of evidence that he was part of the cover-up in Lt. Calley's massacre at a Vietnamese village.
There's also evidence that Calley was the fall guy for higher-ups.
There's a lot of bad stuff that Colin was up to long before he kissed Bush's and Cheney's asses.
http://www.usvetdsp.com/story13.htm
Complicit-General Powell: "We had no meetings on torture." "The only meetings I recall were where we talked about what is it we can do with respect to trying to get information from individuals who were in our custody."
ha!
in other words, torture....
BUSH/cheney/rumsfeld covered their asses before they ordered the "torture" techniques. i'm NOT convinced powell was fully aware of what was going on.personally i feel it was a strategy to heighten the
"war". they wanted al queda/taliban to know there was "torture" being done to stir up the opposition. this was to further justify the "war"/occupation that was getting questioned in the u.s. and by the international
community. yoo/addington know plenty.
Agreed but he is a smart man and he had an idea what was being discussed in his absence. He was not at all the meetings. He was careful to say that none of the memos originated from him (which implies the people that did originate the memos may be in some trouble because of the content, otherwise I don't think he'd offer that detail)
Any lack of awareness he had was willful ignorance to prevent himself from having the appearance of having participated.
could just say "hey it was willful ignorance" am I free to go now officer?
The lengths they go to placate the general public. Works like a charm though.
A large segment of the left no only excuses, but supports Colin Powell as a statesmen of integrity. Hell, look at what Obama has said of Powell. No doubt Powell helped Obama get elected. I can't help but feel that Powell's support leaves a taint on the Obama campaign, especially after this what this interview reminds us. Colin Powell is a war criminal. Make no mistake about this. He might have been the most clear-headed, reasonable, humane person in the room, but that doesn't excuse his guilt.
Did Powell vociferously support Obama to protect himself? Possibly. Is Powell now being truthful about Bush inner-sanctum's illegalities? Doubtful.
If Powell were really trying to "get the record out" he'd be at the forefront of forcing the torture and case for war issue into the limelight instead of not being able to look at Rachel Maddow in the eye and giving half-answers.
In a country where we send pot smokers to jail and give trillions to wall street pimps, is it a shock to see politicians get away with torture?
I vass haffink to go to ze bassroom in das meetingk, I am tinking;
Ja! Das iss it! I vass goingk to ze boyce room und ven I flusched dass
zoilett, mein nekktie got suched down in ze krapper und zo I miszed
ze wholl meetingk und alzo I vass sick mit der potatoe famine zat day!
It musz haff been Cheney did it, he vass krazedy I tell you!
Dude your post cracked me up. perfect character.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JF03i7NfIU&fe...
It reminded me of some of the hundred or so parodies that have been made on one 4 minute scene in the movie "Downfall"
In this one Hitler gets banned from the World of Warcraft online.
Now I know that I could be a out-of-touch geezer.
I understood the German dialogue better than the English subtitles.
Time to get me a rocking chair.
There is even one about the subtitles being wrong. Hilarious ...
I'm Boycotting NewsCorp! Heres what not to buy: http://www.cjr.org/resources/index.php?c=news...
Argh! I was TOTALLY going to do Powell in a German accent and you beat me to it!
Powell knew what was going on first day one. He might not have agreed with it but he knew about it. Powell was drawn to Power and being part of the Bush enter circle. To say he didn't know what was going on would make him stupid. One only need to look at his record and listen to his speech at the United Nations to know he was smart enough to know what the boys were doing. Let's check out his video tape where he apologized for lying to the United Nations and the American people. Powell knows there will be War Crime charges and he's hoping he can lie his way out of it. Obama didn't pick him for any job because not only does the American people know Powell's a War Criminal and liar but the World knows it too. This is what happens when you make a deal with the Devil.
And part of me still wants to....but he seemed to be doin a bit of the ol' dissembler shuffle...shame really...he had such potential too.
From Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to bagman for the BushCO (TM) Crime Family is quite the tumble. Maybe the whole lot of them will be riding in a tumbrel!
Proud DFH, emeritus!
you lying sack of monkey crap. The final straw for you, was that idiotic UN showing, that seems like a lifetime ago now. You should be in jail, and anybody in the media that doesn't ask why you are not in jail, is playing the same game of BS.
Sorry Rachel. Normally love your show, but even Jon Stewart would have lobbed harder questions.
I used to respect him, but the evidence keeps mounting. Dare I say that a big amount of his "credibility" comes 1) his playing both sides to maintain "plausible deniability" and 2) his race??
Throught his career, he's been an effective tool of the Beltway establishment as a Credibility Whore. See his actions re: My Lai.
I am so glad to see the commenters here finally calling Powell out on something. For too long, he's been considered some great statesman or something because he was in the military, where, by the way, he slaughtered thousands of Vietnamese and Iraqis and was instrumental in the My Lai cover-up. I hope his reputation finally gets brought down to the criminal level it warrants.
Like most commenters I believe Colin Powell screwed the pooch and is trying smooz his way ouy of it slowly. He knows a lot, so maybe a book deal is in the future. Money over the truth and justice. You are pathetic Colin. My guess is Obama will pick him up on waivers eventually as long as he proves he will not ever spill the beans on Bush and Cheney, or for that matter Rice. Retire and go away.
He admits he was at meetings where these topics were discussed but not at meetings where the decisions were made. He implies that the position of the State Department (read Powell himself) remained consistently opposed to the harsh techniques, a claim which I am willing to believe and which is consistent with his first claim of not being at meetings where the decisions were made. If you were planning the intimate details of your torture party would you really want to listen to Colin Powell's objections?
This makes Powell look pretty bad. I think it's important to know what was discussed at those meetings but he seems to think only the written records count. For example what if a meeting went like this:
Dubya: Hey Johnny Boy can you write me somethin' that says waterboardin' ain't torture?
Yoo: Yes Mister President. It would be my pleasure. Might I also suggest an opinion on electrical shocks to the male genitals.
Dubya: Youch! Gannon wanted me to do that to him once. I said 'No way Jose!' Course my mouth was a little full at the time. Throw that in there too and anything else ya got.
and for someone who believed Colin Powell was a man of integrity it was very painful. He dodged every question and hedged on nearly every answer, sometimes with shameful audacity (see the above "didn't talk about torture....talked about what we could do" what the fuck is that but "how far can we go?") to his bullshit about DADT.
No, we don't ask Marines if would they be comfortable following this order or that order you lying BIGOT.
Mr. Powell, it's time to speak the whole truth now or forever hold your peace.
You decried the way that "the sons of the powerful and well placed managed to wangle slots into Reserve and Guard Units"[1] and then you went on to serve one of these sons as his Secretary of State.
You criticized the LBJ administrations prosecution of the Vietnam War with "Back home, the administration was trying to conduct the war with as little inconvenience to the country as possible. Taxes to finance the war had not been raised. Better-off kids beat the draft with college deferments."[2] And then you sat silently while the Bush administration did the same.
You said of the downing of the KAL 007 flight: "Don't be stampeded by first reports, Don't let your judgments run ahead of your facts. And, even with supposed facts in hand, question them if they do not add up. Something deeper and wiser than bits of data inform our instincts. I also learned that it is best to get the facts out as soon as possible, even when new facts contradict the old. Untidy truth is better than smooth lies..."[3] But you told the world that we knew of WMD's in Iraq. Perhaps you were misinformed by the intelligence briefings but you also wrote: "The lesson about experts had been reaffirmed. Don't be afraid to challenge the pros, even in their backyard. Just as important, never neglect details, even to the point of being a pest."[4]
"If I never have to parachute again, that will be fine with me, yet there was never any doubt in my mind that I would do what had to be done."[5]
Mr. Powell, it's time to do what has to be done. You have a chance to make a difference, "Stuff happens. And a leader's just got to start all over again."[6] So start over. If you have truth to speak, speak it now, so it can make a difference, so the truth can come out and the guilty can be punished.
You've shown that you've had plenty to say, after the fact, about Vietnam and other world events, but saving the truth for My American Journey Part II isn't good enough. You owe the soldiers, those you helped place in harms way, the untidy truth. Today.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] Colin Powell, My American Journey, Ballantine Books, 1995, p 144
[2] Ibid, p 128
[3] Ibid, p 274
[4] Ibid, p 106
[5] Ibid, p 42
[6] Ibid, p 51
Well put. I think people are being a bit too harsh with Colin Powell. From my understanding the biggest problem with Colin Powell is that he is a team player to a fault. It is well known that Powell objected to invading Iraq and did his best to persuade Bush to not go through with it, but his influence was largely overshadowed by Rumsfeld. For me I think it is a grey area when we look back at what he did after the ball was rolling, but I generally think it is better that Colin Powell was still involved in the Iraq rather than being replaced by another neocon that he can call a "f---ing crazy."
I believe Colin Powell has a lot to share on the issue, but I think he is justified in not telling Rachel Maddow and without the records or facts to consult. Is a five minute interview really the place to get into this and really grasp an understanding of the context? We all know that the real journalism gets done in the papers, not television news.
I just hope that Colin Powell does his part when the time has come. I think he is a good American and would have had a much better political career if the Bush administration didn't drag him through the mud. And the world would be a better place if moderates like him led the republican party and not the crazies they have now.
has ever talked to Colin Powell like that before. Bravo to Rachael. She has more courage than 99.9% of the ambitious beltway wimps like Gregory, King, Blitzer, Matthews, Mitchell, Campbell, Cooper, Williams, Courac, Gibson, Stepanopolis, etc. Rachael is a journalist, the preceeding are pandering personalities who value access more than ethics.
powell is a pathetic quisling who enabled the sociopaths torture program. Yes, I remember 9/11, I also remember looking at the Space Needle and seeing the Flag and I am an old draft dodging hippie, I was proud to see Old Glory. Watching powell bob and weave through the 'yes or no' questions that Rachel asked affirmed that the man who sold the war at the u.n has a lot of karma yet to kick back.
Also in the quisling department we have gregory, a dancin fool for rove, andrea mitchell, mrs. greenspan, john king, total tool witness his sniveling interview with evildik cheney, matthews a drooling syncofant for the likes of delay and armey howling about how lil teddy stevens was railroaded, campbell brown who is married to dan senor neocon, charlie gibson, clueless republican tool, politico, tools who actually share office building with evildik cheney. Watch them and doubt.
I know Nothingk, I saw Nothingk, I hear Nothingk.
And that's what the public will get.
far left loon >.<
Cheney was alreading torturing people. He held a meeting to let them know.
He wasn't asking permission, he was telling them. They decided it was best to keep their mouths shut.
far left loon >.<
This man had nearly everyone's trust, admiration and respect during the early part of the 90's and through the end of Desert Storm/Desert shield. I'm talking about those like myself who were in the military. Those outside the military or that knew him more personally (or prior to the information age of the internet) may have had some reservations.
I think his decisions not to run for President stemmed from his past military decision-making and the realization that he would be skewered by Republicans if he ran as Democrat, and castigated by the African-American community if he ran as a Republican.
No matter now. The entire country knows he is a hypocrite. If he wants to be remembered as at least a DECENT man and his final act be one of a GOOD SOLDIER, then just start telling us the truth and admitting the whole damn thing. Or at least the parts he was involved with instead of "I don't recall" or words to that effect.
Powell is a scum bag.
Just because he distanced himself from the Bush Neo-Cons after he gave the Speech of Lies at the U.N selling the Iraqi invasion doesn't make him any less a war criminal.
He knew the evidence against Saddam was flimsy at best but read the script anyway.
If you disagree with me i beg you to actually look at the evidence.
Powell belongs on the stand at the Hague.
Colin Powell's U.N Presentation
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/1...
Dead Wrong: Colin Powell's Speech at the U.N
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYBA9JD5oW4
The U.N. Deception: What Exactly Colin Powell Knew Five Years Ago, and What He Told the World
http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/archives/...
Powell Archive
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/powell....
Powell blames CIA
http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/001...
Powell Timeline
http://maineowl.net/blog/item/304/catid/17
Curveball:The lies leading Bush to War
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yQtMsOhFVk
Colin Powell lies Documented
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRS1tpGm1_s
Rice and Powell in 2001 stating Iraq had NO wmd's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN5yvoIsnnE&fe...
NOT ONLY IS THIS DEMON A MASS MURDERING SCUM BAG BUT HE HAD HIS PAWS ALL OVER TORTURE.
OFF TO THE HAGUE WITH THIS PIECE OF LYING,MURDERING, SHIT.
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