Robert Reich: How to Create Jobs Without Them All Going to Skilled Professionals and White Male Construction Workers
By Susie Madrak Monday Jan 12, 2009 4:00pmA good start from Robert Reich, but realistically, there are a lot of desk jockeys (including artists and writers) out here who aren't in any shape to do physical labor, and reinstating FDR's public works jobs for them would help, too:
But if there aren't enough skilled professionals to do the jobs involving new technologies, the stimulus will just increase the wages of the professionals who already have the right skills rather than generate many new jobs in these fields. And if construction jobs go mainly to white males who already dominate the construction trades, many people who need jobs the most -- women, minorities, and the poor and long-term unemployed -- will be shut out.
What to do? There's no easy solution to either dilemma. But there's no reason to think about "green jobs" as simply high-tech. Many low-income and low-skilled workers -- women as well as men -- could be put directly to work providing homes and businesses with more efficient and renewable heating, lighting, cooling, and refrigeration systems; installing solar panels and efficient photovoltaic systems; rehabilitating and renovating old properties, and improving recycling systems. "Green Jobs Corps" teams could be trained to evaluate and advise homeowners and businesses on these and other means of conserving energy.
People can be trained relatively quickly for these sorts of jobs, as well as many infrastructure j0bs generated by the stimulus -- installing new pipes for water and sewage systems, repairing and upgrading equipment, basic construction -- but contractors have to be nudged both to provide the training and to do the hiring.
I'd suggest that all contracts entered into with stimulus funds require contractors to provide at least 20 percent of jobs to the long-term unemployed and to people with incomes at or below 200 percent of the federal poverty level. And at least 2 percent of project funds should be allocated to such training. In addition, advantage should be taken of buildings trades apprenticeships -- which must be fully available to women and minorities.
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As someone who has been outsourced in two industries I would like to add a proviso that ALL jobs must be held by US citizens.
Don't want to sound like a cracker but I'm getting REAL tired of my job going to off shore workers or illegal immigrants.
microsoft and other companies have gotten rich by misusing visa programs, in order to pay lower wages and cut out benefits
reich shouldnt think that skilled workers have it all that good
There's a special classification for skilled or educated foreign workers that has been exploited by US companies and universities (which are companies too) to drive down skilled and educated labor costs across the board.
Universities hired many foreign PhDs at what were then well below US standard salaries, but which were very generous by foreign standards. One result was making post-secondary teaching a far less attractive option for Americans.
Oh yeah, they're giving out tenures for H-1B Visas left and right. You've gotta be kidding me.
Yes, temporary work visas do get exploited in the high tech industry. But guess what? Everyone else owes their high salary to that grunt work. If the software isn't cost effective then the whole company goes under. Lots of time companies use them as contractors to try to meet some deadlines and then get rid of them. You want to compete on the global economy, then you hire them, because guess what - if you don't, someone else will... in France, in India, in Israel, wherever.
picking tomatoes? Hot-patch roofing? lawn work?
and, ummmm, did ya vote for either GWB or WJC?
jis' axin...
shall i walk you to construction sites that are filled with illegals doing the work that legal citizens used to do?
this was done to union bust
shall i take you to the factories where line work is being done by non unionized illegals?
how about the high tech jobs?
enough of the "they do the jobs americans wont do" bs
we are in a depression...there isnt a job out there that americans wont do...if provided adequate wages and protections
that's it in my opinion. they(processing plants/manufacturing)don't want citizens(as much) why they can speak english/read/write. therefore, they can make complaints/file worker's compensation and ask for a wage increase. they can't be controlled nearly as easy as someone here illegally. corporations have a dislike for labor cost so they attract "cheap" labor. there is a cost for "cheap" labor. these people can't afford auto insurance and/or health insurance...so the cost goes to the paying pool. there is no doubt the majority of these people are good people but they are not citizens. some communities are being hurt by this "cheap" labor strategy by corporations/(R) team. actually these people are being used in some circumstances. many of them are speaking up NOW after being exposed to pesticides in the agriculture valley of california.
What the difference would be to either question?
There are no aethists in either foxholes or the unemployment line.
I'm an athiest, (at least agnostic), and I'm unemployed...so what's Magical Invisible Sky Man have to do with shit or shinola?
Santa Claus?
named Van Jones, who has examined this question at some length and reached some interesting conclusions.
Everyone needs to know Van Jones and to sing the same story -- GREEN JOBS NOW!!
I don't remember the last time I saw a white male construction worker, short of the Village People.
I was thinking the same thing. Perhaps the Contractors are mostly white, but the workers...not so much.
Most of the electricians I deliver to seem to be white, but the builders? Latino overwhelmingly. I have no idea how many are illegal, but a big seller around here is "Spanish for Contractors", a book/cd combo so you can speak to your workers.
..and at the job I'm a minority. White guys are almost always in supervisor positions though. Latino is the majority in my area.
...actually with all the layoffs its probly 50/50 now cuz us white guys tend to not get laid off as much...
everyone is short of work though.
Our problem is lack of getting ANY white workers to do the job here. Well, until there was no work to do.
AND I can build houses too.
But I don't work because I'm lazy.
right now. At least in my neck of the woods. I usually do that in the winter. Not this winter. Nothing to estimate.
I'd suggest that all contracts entered into with stimulus funds require contractors to provide at least 20 percent of jobs to the long-term unemployed and to people with incomes at or below 200 percent of the federal poverty level. And at least 2 percent of project funds should be allocated to such training. In addition, advantage should be taken of buildings trades apprenticeships -- which must be fully available to women and minorities.
But how you going to get the republicans to go along without a lot of money they can steal somehow?
you are getting closer to the truth here. The government shouldn't be in the business of creating jobs, but when it puts so many regulations on the free market, job opportunities diminish, but not for the people with skills and ambition. For them, there will always be work to do. But for the lazy and untalented? How will they get paid if not for mandatory government hiring programs?? And you wonder why our economy is not functioning healthy? Socialists want the workers to subsidize the parasites, and then turn around and wonder why everyone is rushing to become a parasite... its freakin retarded.
I mean people, Government ruined our economy. What makes you think they will be able to fix it?
wall street had plenty to do with "ruining" our economy also. hedge funds with their manipulation/speculation of oil futures. financial institutions like Lehman,AIG and others overly leveraged in credit default swaps and mortgaged backed securities. tax havens in europe/caribbean to hide bad investments from regulators so not to be exposed. i'm not saying the government isn't involved or lobbyists(whoops that's private industry) but wall street was involved in this big time. i know many like to deny greed and envy exists.
Yeah, good advice on job creation by someone who's responsible for a good deal of job destruction. Reich is trying to invent himself like Friedman but it isn't working.
And sorry Bob, I do not want my "heating, lighting, cooling, and refrigeration systems" installed by "low skilled workers".
Now before you all go postal on me, he IS right that the stimulus or whatever you want to call it NOT go primarily to the trades or skilled OR end up just increasing wages for the currently employed in low unemployment fields. The proper, efficient, and humane way to use the money is in health, child, and elder care. These fields are drastically underfunded and currently have a large pool of skilled yet unemployed workers. The need is dire. Every red cent of the wages paid would be spent. And by improving so many lives reduce future entitlement funding requirements. That's the smart plan, Bob.
AFT President Randi Weingarten has suggested expanding the use of existing public school buildings to include community clinics and the like, both utilizing those public buildings in the off hours and enhancing outreach, providing needed services to the community.
AFT: American Federation of Teachers
republican government destroied the economy.
without regulation you get greed rules and you end up where we are now.
I should preface this with - I honestly don't know, or presume to know, how the race/demographics pan out with regard to high tech jobs and skilled labor jobs.
but um... why - put a *MANDATE* on who you have to hire? I'm not a pro basketball player. know why? cuz I'm short and I'm just not fast enough. know who is? well... mostly tall inner city young black men. its not profiling. its not unfair. its smart business. a manager/owner scouts around for the best, and they hire the best. sure, sometimes the best is a white guy like Larry Byrd but 9 times out of 10... well, there ya go.
so.
if it turns out that - 9 times out of 10, the best hackers are pudgy single white heterosexuals... whats the point of mandating "diversity"?
how are we going to be able to compete against Europe and Japan and China and Korea (who don't have those mandates) if we force our biggest manufacturers to diversify their production line?
I mean - isn't that a major part of the problem? that nobody overseas wants to buy the crappy cars, software and toasters that we make anymore? so... wouldn't it make more sense to churn out the best product possible? so... wouldn't it make sense to hire the best workers possible?
I mean, sure, its heartbreaking to think about long term unemployed, but this problem is bigger than a bleeding heart. our economy isn't just "depressed", its about to frickin die! we can't afford the luxury of ensuring a diverse workplace.
hire the best, to work on our most important industries. the people who can't hack it, well... I guess they can sell us our coffee or somethin, I dunno.
maybe I'm oversimplifying it.
"...isn't that a major part of the problem? that nobody
overseas wants to buy the crappy cars, software and toasters
that we make anymore?"....
.is that very soon they won't even want to buy our crappy DEBT.
I'm not sure what the govt may want in return.
I'm just gonna be an organic farmer who makes pitch forks and torches on the side.
I'm half tempted to go back sometimes. it was absolutely shit work, with lazy coworkers... but man. government unions are BRUTAL! its damn near impossible to get fired. the stability would be a nice thing right about now
to mandate who gets what jobs and break it down into percentages. You don't get decent workers that way.
word
When did they start hiring white male construction workers?
They're as easy to find as Eskimo NBA players.
I'm 1/4 Eskimo.
I should try out for the TrailBlazers then file a discrimination suit when I don't make the cut. ;)
I thought they were saying it had to be a percentage of females, etc. I don't even see females applying for jobs in my area in construction, except to be flag girls on road construction.
Would girls be expected to hit on themselves?
Obama's already pledged to renovate all federal buildings, replacing old inefficient heating & lighting .. GREEN jobs.
This should help train the labor and capitalize the industry to replace the old inefficient heating & lighting in non-federal buildings.
This would be a solid investment in our nation's future. The upgraded infrastructure will both pollute less and cost less. And the resulting green industries will provide jobs in the future as well as the present.
If the govt really wanted to create jobs they would impose heavier tariffs on imported goods to make them more expensive to encourage us to re-build us some mo' greener factories here in the USA.
Then maybe we wouldn't have to subsidize our farmers, the marketing would improve, and Community Supported Agriculture could take the primary role. It's all about sustainability these days... people need to learn to eat fresh produce in season instead of insisting on strawberries in winter, and eat frozen ones instead. Apples in the fall, strawberries in June... Train more people in growing high quality food.
...we would definitely have our work cut out for us.
We would all have alot of work to do turning over our front yards and planting gardens instead of grass.
Fast food tax? Especially when "experts" say how fat the average north american is now.
Fast food franchises predominate in lower income areas, whilst grocery stores are few and far between there. So such a tax would punish the poor for the low number of options available in their neighborhoods.
So? It doesn't stop governments from taxing smokers, drinkers and gas, and it's been proven to affect the poor more than anyone else. I was just thinkin' like a politician.
Smoking and drinking are more elastic quantity demand items, and there's more of a choice between indulging or not indulging. Gas is a little more problematic since the poor can drive, and perhaps the less efficient cars. However, all these solutions are regressive taxes based on POS favored by republicans who do not want to tax progressively.
on most news websites, state governments are all increasing taxes on all said items. They have no choice they say, cuz they are virtually bankrupt. So a bankrupt country, is talking about injecting megamoney into infastructure through states, that are bankrupt as well. So, I'm no Paul Krugman, and I can and will hope for the best, but I sincerely think we are f*cked. Government cannot create jobs. Period. They can create temporary jobs, that will do nothing to get private business rolling again. At the end of the day, recessions depressions or whateversessions have to play out their own cycles. Taxing and spending and borrowing can cause them, but they sure aren't gonna fix them.
I should mention that gas is an inelastic demand, and such taxes weigh differently depening on the region and the availability of mass transportation.
Additionally, taxes when wisely applied DO create work as ways of financing government contracts that go to businesses who then hire or keep workers. The wages and income they earn should create more taxes that go to the government, but the systems gone lopsided when corporations can get so many tax rebates, tax cuts, or various forms of hiding their profits.
And the reason state governments are increasing such taxes is because sales taxes are what supports state governments. There are no provisions for a federal sales tax.
saying your argument is wrong. It's right. What I'm saying is politicians on one side are raising taxes and fees and cutting services, while other politicians are gonna spend like drunk on similar stuff that is getting cut. It's kind of like wearing a condom. But before you have sex, you cut the end off so you can have a pee. Then go back. Sure you were wearing a condom, but......
Oopsie, I made a les beux-beux.
States also have income taxes too, but where I live (Texas) there is no state income tax nor city tax. The lege will raise sales taxes to avoid creating a state income tax. States that have income taxes use sales taxes to avoid increasing the former taxes.
Oregonian here.
no sales tax here, at all. we just keep raising income taxes. and property taxes. lol, and using those funds to over-fund social services.
this is the perfect state to live in, if you don't want to do a damn thing, ever, and if you don't want to starve while not doing it. ;)
its the perfect system. all those snooty yuppie hard workers at Yahoo and Intel and Nike are forced to take care of pretty much everybody else.
We use property taxes to pay for education. So not only do property taxes go up because we're educating the children of the illegal aliens, but it perpetuates a class-based education system, divided not by race but by income. The nicer neighborhoods pay property taxes to pay for their nicer schools, and the poor neighborhoods pay property taxes for poor schools.
Mon, 01/12/2009 - 17:00 — Milquetoast
If the govt really wanted to create jobs they would impose heavier tariffs on imported goods to make them more expensive to encourage us to re-build us some mo' greener factories here in the USA.
That could create a trade war similar to what preceded World War II.
Why did they bomb Pearl Harbor? Same idear. Trade wars.
I read Arthur Schlessinger's The Vietnam War Years when I was seventeen. He suggested that part of what caused the bombing of Pearl Harbor was not quite a war of trade, but raw materials. The Japanese wanted the rubber being produced in Hawaii. Apparently they had some skirmishes in Vietnam over rubber plantations with American mercenaries, and Schlessinger conjectured that they may've confused them for military regulars, thus making us no longer neutral. Needless to say if we were selling the rubber to the powers aligned against the Axis powers that too would tend to belie our neutral status.
last night had a show on Pearl Harbor. Who fired first. Was surprised at how honest it actually was. The US was selling to both sides of the war before they became involved. But it stated similar, about the US refusing to supply any more raw materials to Japan as one of the reasons for the bombing. Also showed, with proof, that the US fired the first shots at Pearl Harbor, sinking a Japanese sub before the invasion. I'd never seen that before on television. Was shocked I tell ya!
Because Japan was using it for armaments.
And that two-man mini-sub was destroyed at the mouth of the harbor, an unidentified vessel way inside US territorial waters.
Most wars are about land, resources, and, ultimately, trade. Even the religious wars boil down to control over these things. Probably pre-dates history. Even epipaleolithic tribes in the Amazon rainforest fight over boundaries.
america was selling scrap metal to japan knowing full well the japs were useing it for military weapons! the crucial material japan needed was oil, and we put an embargo on oil shipments trying to force the japanese out of china, and as a matter of fact the first americans ti engage in combat with the japs were the famous avg the flying tigers in china burma and india, flying curtis p40 warhawks thier were 3 two man jap subs stationed in the mouth of pearl harbor , and the jap sub skipper who tried to enter pearl harbor was going against his orders wich were to patrol in the entrence to pearl to pick off any ships that tried to excape, the destroyer ward was doing an ant sub exersise in that area when the spoted it and sunk it !,
The Tigers were part of the Chinese Air Force, and paid well, but when the US entered the war, they all became American pilots again, iirc.
Do you know about Roosevelt's more personal ties to China, tyree? His family fortune was made in the import/export business, and did a lot of trade in China.
And speaking of oil...of course the Japanese were after it, but they completely botched the attack when they didn't hit the fuel depots at Pearl Harbor. After aircraft carriers, you'd think those depots would be the second priority.
and I'll do it for one tenth of his salary.
I'll leave out the golden parachute. If I blow the place up I'll just walk.
And if I only manage to lose one tenth of the THREE HUNDRED BILLION that he lost, then it will be a bargain for them.
I will also promise not to take any more
Federal PayoffTARP money.That would help.
I am always ready to do my patriotic best.
Besides, he might be needed down at Obama HQ.
Not a done deal yet, but the gestapo needs it's new headquarters.
The project still needs approval from Congress
HA!
CONgress....but I laugh with ya!!!
"if the opposite of a pro is a con,
I look beyond this.
the opposite of progress,
must be Congress..."
Chris Palko, 2005
Oh well, time to turn on Jungle-Girl.
The war on drugs, like the war on terror, is a waste of money and man power, not to mention is a direct attack on our citizens. Better to stop wasting that money and divert it towards treatment/rehabilitation and housing. I guarantee you'll see an increase in jobs to minorities and women.
I'm a plumber, let me tell you that the conceit that men understand the trades better isn't supported by the facts. Sure men are physically more able is somewhat true but often isn't true. Often jobs rely on piecework and dexterity not brute strength. True men can 'Man Up' and do things that women can't but at what cost? Shoddy construction and ripped up bodies. Good construction shouldn't rely on using up men and throwing them away but on enlightened practices. I would welcome more women in the trades if it were to get rid of some of the exploitative practices that the male only construction model often relies. My L4 and L5 vertebrae scrape together quite nicely now and I'm just the tip of the iceberg. Macho men are impressive but they usually don't last long, I know I'm one. Women are taught that they can't so they don't. I'm doubtful that this is healthy for society.
Yeah, what a load of crap. Let's throw away high skilled jobs because we don't need those for an economic recovery. And men haven't been disproportionately losing more jobs than anyone else, or anything like that. It's not like the system is set up in such a way that women and children will be hard hit when the primary income ends, insurance runs out, child support payments dry up, more homes foreclosed, etc. Because what we really need for an economic recovery is this: let's build a few Nike factories over here, for our women and children to work in, and then we can flood the Chinese market with cheap American-made shoes while they take over our high skilled jobs.
I live in California. The construction trades are filled with many shades of skin color and even some women, believe it or not.
I don't know about the rest of the country but up here in the Pacific Northwest , specifically in the greater Seattle area of Washington state the construction industry is NOT DOMINATED by white American males , those days are long gone . It has been dominated by males from south of the border , cheap labor . I am a hardwood floor installer and finisher and it got to the point that we were the only trade outside of site superintendents who were white American males . In fact companies had to hire translators to hold state required safety meetings on the job sites. To top it off sixty percent ( plus ) of these guys were not legal . So cry me a river about minorities getting work , your awful white American males need to house and feed their families too and we have been getting the crap end of the stick .
The economic point of the stimulus is to utilize whatever resources are not being utilized by the market, for whatever reason. Economic growth is, thus, boosted without any real cost to the economy. We don't get to choose what resources are under-utilized. If a bunch of skilled white males gets laid off, that's who gets the new jobs. Understandably, one could predict greater minority and low-skill unemployment, but I haven't seen the numbers, so I can't say if the effect is significant enough to warrant specific policy measures.
It isn't going to be easy to do so, either. Low-skill unemployment can be answered by providing low-skill jobs, but that's not very good for social justice. It would be better to provide training for higher-skill jobs, but that would require reallocation of high-skill workers, and it's anyone's guess what skills should be trained or how.
Personally, though, I find it a bit weird that we even have a problem with Americans being unwilling to work for low wages and no benefits. Wouldn't we put a lot of immigrants out of work if we solved that problem? Sure, you can legislate higher pay, but that might cause a wave of business failures and leave even more people unemployed.
In any case, the recession is going to provoke a government response that is much more crude and much less sophisticated than any proposals we would like. The feeling of successfully passing the stimulus will probably feel better than the consequences.
We'll fix it--Iraq style!
Just try it yourself. Plumbers, Carpenters, Electricians, Refrigeration techs, HVAC techs, Roofers... Try and do it right without these folks. Marginalizing the people who do work has got to end. Low income does not mean low skilled. It just means that our society values trading paper more than it values the trades.
over 50 million individual have up to 8 credit cards each. Many are living on their credit card. with real unemployment in excess of 14%
and over extended credit cards, to say nothing of student loans. This depression can only continue.
Is the concept of vocational education completely dead? I am not talking about the shop classes in high school, or the trade schools that float around, but the vocational education that is used in the rest of the world to tack people into careers that are functional rather than theoretical. In places like Germany a vocationally trained person is equal to a college educated person because they both have the same academic foundations but after the end of the basic courses the vocationally directed person starts the process similar to apprentices but they are not controlled or instituted by trade unions. Also, there is not an artificial limit to the level you can raise, the leads of the rest of the worlds businesses are as likely to come from the factory floor as the business colleges.
There is a lot out in the world that America misses and vocational education is a big one.
I agree with him but isn't he kind of glossing over the fact that in American labor right now there are tens of thousands of skilled laborers working at unskilled jobs??? If you get those people out of unskilled labor and into the skilled jobs they have the know how for doesn't that open up those unskilled jobs for people without the skills??
I was bumped out of my comfortable blue collar job that had benefits, was located near where I grew up (extended family network), and allowed me to live a life after 5PM (community involvement). I - and all others with me - were replaced by a contractor who hired illegals from wherever. These people were not connected to the community (I mean good for them being able to send money home, but that does not benefit our nation) were not paid as much (lived in those cramped mostly male rental houses or cheep motels), and were replaced if they got too smart (learned English, could read safety instructions, wondered why they were not getting benefits).
Our labor system is set up against workers and the race card is used to divide our workers. The whole "jobs Americans don't want to do" is just propaganda by owners.
People say the jobs that are shovel ready are only for white males? Ask, why are native born unskilled workers not working not just now, but in the many years leading up to this Neo-Depression and why in this time have their skills not been brought up to speed, despite the huge educational industry that has made billions to attempt this?
We need to return to thinking of ourselves as "labor" as "workers" and focus on the rights we citizens are entitled to! I don't mind washing the dishes of an engineer building a road. I mean, that blue collar job with benefits was just that. Yes, dish washer. And it gave me a better life than the college educated and fragmented white collar pillar to post existence I lead now with more hours and in comparison, less pay.
Don't just give us your shovel ready projects. Give us all back our Blue Collar Jobs.
Certainly have reduced the number of skilled techs here in the US. I have a degree in Computer Science, program in several different languages, am very competent in networking, experienced in research, yet can not get in a large corp or university job, much less a small company that relies on already trained applicants.
I borrowed $50000 to get my BS and have found that many research and tech jobs have been outsourced. The heavy research has been taken by educational collaborations out of the country to better funded research programs. The US has mainly weapons research and related tech.
Many entry level positions that increase the number of prospective engineers and techs by training recent grads in product lines, tech support, troubleshooting, and other business functions have been networked out of the country. Design and engineering have followed these H1-b visas and outsourced entry level jobs.
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