Secret Treaty: Download Music, Go to Jail?
By Susie Madrak Friday Mar 13, 2009 2:00pmMarcy at FDL brings us this interesting tidbit that indicates you might be serving jail time for downloading music:
Last September, the Bush administration defended the unusual secrecy over an anti-counterfeiting treaty being negotiated by the U.S. government, which some liberal groups worry could criminalize some peer-to-peer file sharing that infringes copyrights.
[...] Now President Obama's White House has tightened the cloak of government secrecy still further, saying in a letter this week that a discussion draft of the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement and related materials are "classified in the interest of national security pursuant to Executive Order 12958."
[...] Jamie Love, director of the nonprofit group Knowledge Ecology International, filed the Freedom of Information Act request that resulted in this week's denial from the White House. The denial letter (PDF) was sent to Love on Tuesday by Carmen Suro-Bredie, chief FOIA officer in the White House's Office of the U.S. Trade Representative.
[...] Love had written in his original request on January 31--submitted soon after Obama's inauguration--that the documents "are being widely circulated to corporate lobbyists in Europe, Japan, and the U.S. There is no reason for them to be secret from the American public."
[...] Love's group believes that the U.S. and Japan want the treaty to say that willful trademark and copyright infringement on a commercial scale must be subject to criminal sanctions, including infringement that has "no direct or indirect motivation of financial gain."
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all they will end up doing is busting a few stupid teens who know nothing about firewalls and proxy servers
technology is leaps and bounds ahead of law enforcemnet
i understand the need for enforcement against those who pirate and make a profit
but to go after kids sharing?
truly insane
I think the key here is "willful trademark and copyright infringement on a COMMERCIAL SCALE must be subject to criminal sanctions, including infringement that has no direct or indirect motivation of financial gain."
They're not going after teens that download an MP3 from a website. They're not going after a DJ who substantially steals a song and plays it as his own creation at a couple of rave gigs. They're going after large scale producers - think Chinese CD, software, and DVD pirates - who pose a legitimate threat to content producers.
When they loop in those who have no "direct or inderect motivation of financial gain", this could include an organization who distributes intellectual property for free, ultimately harming the content producer's ability to make money from their content.
What if someone just has a really big collection of songs?
On a personal note, I started using Limewire a while back and when I set it up I had no idea I'd made my entire music collection available for sharing. Yes, I'm a total technological moron, but does that mean that because my 80 gigs of mp3's were open for sharing I should go to jail?
Just curious.
I think it's absolutely retarded that I can give away my material on any other medium except the internet. Special laws because technology has finally pissed these corporates off. I mean I remember with "The Record Button" and "VCRs" were all the big enemy. They didn't destroy our society and there is no reason to think that this will.
The rights of people should not be compromised because someone wants to make a buck. Who are the criminals in that case? This is a clear cut case of using laws as weapons as opposed to having laws to protect citizens.
The citizens cannot become criminals to a few corporations, otherwise the corporations are the citizens and the government no longer serves the people. In that case open dissent against the law is appropriate.
Well, the laws are for us to protect ourselves from the rich, not to serve them.
because of the childish way they've manipulated the laws in this country. Waaaayyy back when they were in the business of making blank tapes, they lobbied to get the laws changed so VCR's were okay and taping was fine.
Now that they're in the business of making the stuff that goes ON the tapes (or CD's or DVD's), NOW they're all butthurt about their precious money. NOW they want the laws changed AGAIN to accommodate their change of business plan.
WRONG. Thanks for playing! You're certainly never going to get another dollar of mine. There's a nice marketplace for used stuff, complete with its own recommendation system, which wonderfully supplies all my needs without those assholes getting a cent. It's called Amazon, and it's saved me a TON of money on overpriced media.
With 80 gigs on offer, you were lucky that you never got a letter plus an offer you couldn't refuse from RIAA lawyers.
You most likely were on their lists, prob only luck and time stopped the letter, or your ISP was one of the rare few who wouldn't cooperate with the RIAA.
Actually, the reason the RIAA got a $200,000, was it?, judgment on a dozen songs downloaded in the Duluth case is the long-standing argument that peer-to-peer is inherently commercial-sized distribution and damage.
That case may see some precedent-setting reversal though.
Aside from business and government being hand and glove in the U.S. along Mussolini's definition of fascism, I have to think that any government is overjoyed to find an excuse to actively pursue criminalizing peer-to-peer. Little mentioned is what an incredible medium it is for free expression. All you need is a rudimentary audio or video processing station. Don't need the capital and licensing of a broadcast station. Free as blogging, freer really, but with multimedia.
You can say, "Sure, well then. Just use it for that." The problem is the rumors that ISPs will suspect you of piracy just for using peer-to-peer for anything.
I must admit, I wasn't expecting good things on this front from the appointments of Perrelli, Verrilli, MacBride and Ogden to DoJ positions.
I'm a DJ. I play other people's music. I'm a professional record player player. I'm also pretty fucking good at it.
I fielded this issue a long time ago, and covered my ass a long time ago, and protected many people in my industry a long time ago, with my simple, simple, simple argument.
some ... I dunno ... stoner ... in his basement or whatever ... makes some track. makes some rave-tastic or hip-hopperiffic track. focused as a delivery toward a specific target market. promotes it. it gets pressed to vinyl. he makes some cash.
some .. I dunno .. asshole, like me, finds the record in a record store. grooves to it. decides to buy it. goes home, plays it, scratches it, mixes it in and out and back in and back out with other songs. records the whole DJ'ing session. fine tunes it. saves it as a demo. sells the demo for $5
this is *exactly* what has happened countless times. those artists, *KNOW*, when they make their art, that "different" kinds of artists like myself, are going to find their art, and manipulate their art in order to make my own kind of art and market my own kind of art. its um - well - its basically an implied contract. every time I buy a ravey davey or hip hop thugtastic record at a record store.
that guy - the stoner - if he dares get all butt hurt or whatever about me mixing and selling his shit.
well.
first of all, A, since he made dance club sounding tracks for a living, there's an implied contract that I WOULD BUY HIS CRAP AND MIX IT AND MAKE MY OWN MONEY OFF HIS MUSIC!
there's obviously an implied contract.
but .. but .. even IF he wins? well - what does he win? the same stupid argument that Dr. Dre won when he told every DJ out there to stop scratching and sampling his music without his express permission.
lol.
so DJ's with proper street cred, who actually, legitemately, realistically, high five and smoke herbs with the every day criminals and hip hop heads that Dr Dre supposedly represents and markets himself to .. those DJ's .. have made his message perfectly clear.
"HEY! EVERY DJ OUT THERE! STOP ROCKIN DRE'S SHIT! no, seriously. stop it. he doesn't want you to. unless he gets royalties and residuals he doesn't want ANYBODY, *ever*, in the basement of a fully packed bay area house party to get blunted and have cool dudes high five and hot chicks do the makeout while HIS tracks are bumpin in the background..."
lol...
seriously...
the "don't pirate my music" whiny ass artists who step up and rant against pirating are just shooting themselves in the foot. on one hand you got dangermouse mixing in the Beatles, and Z-TRIP mixing in Air Supply with Pharcyde. but only with express permission. and on one hand you got Radiohead giving away free albums online.
on the other hand, you have Metallica and Dr. Dre bitching about the iPod. which - at the end of the day? - was marketed, sold, and WILL BE USED despite their complaints.
so.
awesome. whatever. let the law sit as it sits.
it will just ensure that craptastic artists doing what they do for a living for all the wrong reasons, will just flush their careers away. because seriously. everybody knows all the old Dre and Metallica tracks. but ever since they started whining so loudly about MP3s you can't exactly point to anybody openly repping the music they released last Thursday, now can you.
the concept of an "mp3" media format, the concept of copied music - its here to stay. artists need to find a new business model. everything else is just noisy ass whining.
Here here. Metallica went after napster and I threw out my metallica TAPES and never listened to them again. I mean, I heard some on the Mission Impossible II soundtrack and stuff, but no way would I put my money out to them, nor would I put them on my Hard Drive.
Dr Dre? Sounds like a dipstick when I can listen to Immortal Technique and give him the money directly. I wanna hear from people who are for the people. If you play music for the corps then you are not on the side of the music.
Music is about heart and soul, it says something. You don't play it to say "I'm a money grubbing bitch."
After And justice for all.. Metallica was crap anyway! Mediocre crap that went downhill fast!
Earlier today Truth Be Told linked the original article from Cnet that Marcy links.
The way I read it, the administration is blocking a FOIA request for information regarding the ACTA treaty that's BEING NEGOTIATED. It seems to me that Treaties are negotiated between nations behinfd closed doors. That information pertaining to those negotiations has been leaked demonstrates that someone is negotiating in bad faith. I think that it's right for the administration to do its best to negotiate in good faith.
Eventually the treaty must be ratified by the Senate, at which time the terms of the treaty will be public. Until then we should leave it in the hands of the diplomats.
Mostly that's what got us into the many messes we are in today!
I say everyone watch everything they do, pay attention & don't listen to the spin from either side.
Think for yourself cause there is only you! - Subhumans 1987
...begin.
When two political bodies negotiate, they send representatives in, and those representatives need to present a united front to effectively bargain. When that front shows cracks, the other parties involved are given areas to exploit.
IMO, the administration is trying to prevent those cracks. They're bargaining in good faith.
i already refuse to buy any riaa or mpaa afilliated products while their inane war against their customer base continues. there are many safe ways to get a music fix.
let them rot.
I'll see you and raise you.
I refuse to buy music - PERIOD - unless its on vinyl.
WHY? well... because I can easily get quality cuts for free.
and we can debate the ethics but at the end of the day?
the capabilities exist.
the enhancement exists.
the invention has been invented.
I'm *FAR* from the only one who feels this way I'm just more honest about it.
shit.
this goes *double* for software developers.
people who made a living out of pressing their intellectual property onto tiny plastic disks for a quick transfer - need to redesign their business model.
us pirates are here to stay, yo.
trying to convince me and millions others just like me to change my ways for "the cause" is about as pointless as republicans trying to convince me to go to church. lol..
i totally agree with you. the sonic characterictics of many analog recording technologies like vinyl far out strip those of digital formats such as mpgs in the dynamic compression catagory and data loss areas. reproduced media today is loud, tinny, overly brassy, and lacks the subtle nuances of timbre in voice and instrumentation of technologies of even 3 decades ago.
phooey on this so-called "progress".
First there was FISA, Guantanamo is still open, and now these lies about "national security" for a document which is being circulated around no fewer than 13 nations and has nothing to do with nuclear power, designed to enact criminal penalties on civil matters, the powers to enforce these being given to private organisations.
Same shit, different name.
I don't purchase or download for free or "borrow" other peoples music because there is an awesome station right here in MN that plays some really sweet tunes and doesn't have commercials (Except for pledge drives). You can listen online so give it a try and if you like it and feel it should be supported, throw a couple bucks at them.
The Current
who has power in the U.S.?
The CIA?
The military?
The question is more important than the answer.
The CIA and the military control the RIAA. That explains the general suckiness of the state of popular music in the world today.
Would you please read the OP before posting?
I post at random, at impulse.
This will work until rapists, pedofiles and murderers start getting out of jail because of overcrowding. Then it will drop into the waste bucket of other RIAA tactics as a failure.
No worries. Just use Peer Guardian and private torrent sites like Demonoid or hack your neighbor's unsecured Wifi connection.
This will work until rapists, pedofiles and murderers start getting out of jail because of overcrowding. Then it will drop into the waste bucket of other RIAA tactics as a failure.
Clearly you haven't paid any attention to our government's policies on drugs, or illegal immigration.
Oh, and Peer Guardian? PILE OF CRAP. Ask anybody on torrent sites like Mininova and Demonoid. Doesn't do a damn thing.
If it becomes a criminal offense to file share or copy music, etc. what's to prevent the RIAA, MPAA, major publishers, newspapers (if any are still left) or radio and television from releasing ONLY what they deem necessary...or want released?
In other words, selective information dissemination decided by...big brother? We can only read or see or hear what they want, otherwise, it's a crime.
Only authorized publications of current events or even history could be allowed to be published depending on who is in charge. There'll be no way to read about or hear or see anything they don't want us to be exposed to.
Better than censorship. Total control over delivery of information.
Welcome to the 1930s, central Europe.
If it becomes a criminal offense to file share or copy music, etc. what's to prevent the RIAA, MPAA, major publishers, newspapers (if any are still left) or radio and television from releasing ONLY what they deem necessary...or want released?
Are you under the impression that it was ever any other way? Music and publishing companies ALWAYS release only what they want to release. There's no law that says they must release this or that. Free market, remember.
My gawd!! I'd better hide all my old cassette tapes and video tapes. Dare I go to the library and take out a book for free: the artist gets nothing? Egad, keep me from the photocopier!! I wonder if it's OK to give someone else my used newspaper?
"including infringement that has "no direct or indirect motivation of financial gain."
Commercial scale: yes
This? Bullshit.
They are suing people for using Obama's public image. A guy made art and is being sued. So yeah its here.
That's a complete change from Andy Warhol's Campbell Soup.
He getting sued for that now? How about his Coke thing? No.
Lets go after the estate of Warhol for that. Lets go after Elvis daughter and every rapper for using other's mixes in the background.
It's a direct violation of fair use.
they killed the vcr and are trying to kill the cd burner? Dang it, I thought it was because they'd invented some new method of burning songs.
sucks. It's not like the good stuff I loved in the 80's and 90's. The heart and soul of music is gone. It's not a movement or a form of expression anymore. It's a business.
And forget about the radio. They'll play the same 6 songs every hour, 24 hours a day. They don't even hide the fact that it's pay-to-play.
There are some diamonds in the trash heap, but they don't get the respect, attention and sales they deserve. After I saw those kids get sued for insane amounts of money, I started using ITunes. Just to be on the safe side. Surprisingly, they do have a lot of the good stuff.
reasoning behind all this "illegal to download" BS. Artists today have little talent in the American Idull world. Bass banging in the background while some person basically mumbles and talks into a microphone. Or girl bands that couldn't do a live performance if their lives depended on it, because they can't sing a note without it being doctored up in a studio. It's sad the crap they call music now.
Concerned, you nailed it. I saw a video on YT showing how they "fix" an artist's voice to sound good, on the album and on stage. And they want us to pay full price for that crap! When they put up an effort to make real music, maybe illegal downloading will decrease.
Don't succumb to the threat.
You'll never catch us! Tunneling, encripting etc. etc. You are always three steps behind. The only ones you get are kids or people who do not download that much to know about how to secure download. You don't get the big downloaders/uploaders!
And you sure don't get me! Not in the country i'm in! :p
Oh, and fuck you (MPAA, RIAA)
I won't say when, or what, but it will happen.
When I read about this a day or two ago on a tech site, my response was pretty simple: What the FUCK!
Two steps forward, one back. I realize most politicians of either party are bought and paid for by moneyed interests, but I would like to think that Obama would at least be a little more above board about screwing the people who elected him for the sake of some thuggish entertainment executives. I suppose it is, in theory, making their tactics--which are sometimes as blatantly illegal as the people they're using them on--legitimate, albeit behind a cloak of secrecy.
And when I say "screwing the people who elected him" I really mean it. Who put in the most time, the most money, and the most overall efforts on his grassroots campaign? Technically literate, internet-savvy, relatively young people. The exact people who are disproportionately likely to be affected by something like this.
The only ones likely to benefit, of course, being the CEOs of companies in the RIAA and MPAA and maybe--MAYBE--their richest shareholders.
Basters the lot of them. If Obama doesn't fix this one, I'm going to remember. I'm not naive enough to think McCain would have done better, and he'd have been a lot worse in other areas, but I will not forget.
And don't forget the gaming industry with there crap DRM. Remember Spore? It was one of the most downloaded game within days! "funny" enough tho that it fucked the people that purchased the game more than the pirates. Just as crap as Sony did with there rootkit!
Okay, so if I were to kidnap someone, ship them off to a foreign country and torture them then it's legal. But if I download a Leonard Nimoy song about Bilbo Baggins then I get prison time. Sounds like justice in America.
Correct. The only way you can permissibly play that Leonard Nimoy song is if it's in a dank 6x6' cell inhabited by a cowering A-rab.
what the hell is this? who do these assholes think they are? madoff and the rest of the wall street pigs steal trillions, and the fucking govt is going to lock up some of my college students because they downloaded some p.o.s. "music" that isn't worth a penny? give me a fucking break. people need to start burning shit to the ground.
Here,here you guys....todays "music" is indeed mostly crap.I go back in taste much further back,50,60,70's.Even swing era.I wouldn't know any of these "artists" or their "music" if I passed em on the street.
Deb Vegas
We are supposed to obey laws without knowing what they are?
WHAT?
I thought Obama was going to PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION?
SO WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO JETTISON THE CRIMINAL CIA?
So When are they going to cancel the criminal bankruptsy reform?
In fact roll back EVERY LAW THEY WROTE SINCE 2000 would roll back a criminal unlawful regime altogether.
And end the G.D. WAR! NOW WOULD BE GOOD.
I am loosing faith in Obama.
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