Swine Flu Victim Dies After Being Kicked Out Of ER.
By Susie Madrak Wednesday Oct 21, 2009 2:00pmVia Avedon. Remind me again how we have the greatest healthcare system in the world - because I have a feeling ERs are going to be swamped with cases like this all winter:
CORPUS CHRISTI — The mother of a man who died of a swine flu-related illness said her son was asked to leave a Texas hospital a day before his death because he was lying on the floor, too ill to sit in a chair.
Irving Neil Range, 58, of Corpus Christi died in the emergency room of Christus Spohn Hospital Memorial on Friday of a swine-flu related illness, confirmed Annette Rodriguez, interim director of Corpus Christi-Nueces County Public Health District.
Opal Range told the Corpus Christi Caller-Times that her son went to the emergency room Oct. 1, but laid on the floor because he felt too sick to sit a chair while waiting to see a doctor. She said a security guard asked him to leave so he went home. Her son returned to the emergency room the next day and died.
Sherry Carr-Deer, a spokeswoman for Christus Spohn Health System, told The Associated Press that she did not know the specifics of Range's case, but that their security guards generally try to work with people and give them a couple of chances.
“Our security guards don't escort anyone out or ask them to leave unless they become belligerent,” she said.
Health officials said Range didn't appear to have any underlying health conditions that may have contributed to his death.
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Texas is a brutal, savage place. Glad I don't live there.
brutal and savage. Don't get sick there.
HEY! I was wondering about maryland doctors and hospitals any one know?
if you got bottomless pockets or are well known or a celebrity you'll make the short list.
WTF are you talking about? You are so biased against doctors, you should just skip any topic that relates to them.
we know it without a single doubt. Hows that for hard won experience?
After a botched surgery in Carlisle, Harrisburg finished off my grandfather a WW2 Vet. I needed him, us 2 together would've made one of those zero point generators gaurenteed.
After what happened to my Dad I can never trust the system again. The incompetence, greed, and corruption driving the Medical System is unbelievable.
Yea, man I know. not even a year ago something popped in my brain, my right eye went blurry left arm started shaking,O was hot and sweating, pretty sure I kept on blogging to even. I called my dad for pizza. :P Fixxed me right up.
I am ready dude they aren't doing me like that.
The story involving my dad and the families decision to let him die is long and complicated...at the time. Looking back, it all makes sense. It was years ago before the serious health care debate. What I was told was to benefit his health not the insurance carrier. I didn't make the decision, I was powerless. My dickhead brother who I don't speak to and was POA made the decision based on a non physicians statements. Like I said it was many years ago but knowing what I know now I truly believe what we were told wasn't to let him die with "dignity" and "peacefully" but to save money for Aetna. I believe they made the choice and the decision to murder him.
I hope you sued. A little advice: If you keep picking at a wound, it will never heal. Peace to you.
at the NYS Assembly?
It is the craziest video I have ever seen!!
http://cryptogon.com/?p=11786
What's taking them so long?
We should have let the south secede.
And that his mom has a good lawyer (I'm sure a few have already contacted her).
It is now STANDARDIZED care to TRIAGE all patients in an E.R. as they come through the door. Had he been properly triaged he would have been placed in a room to lie down and his vital signs would have been taken etc.
I would NOT want to be the Administrator of this hospital.
If things turn out to be as they appear in this article, there will be heads rolling on this one.
Hopefully policies/procedures will be changed due to this.
Sadly, Mr. Range won't be around to benefit from them.
This cruel incompetence makes me sick.
Abbybwood, R.N.
at least that's standard practice here in Orlando.
If he was 58, that means that his mom is probably in her late 70's or 80's and now she gets to bury her son, knowing how his last days were.
Our health care system is terminal.
I suppose it goes something like this:
Ok, blood pressure looks good, that 103 temperature is high but typical for a flu, pulse is a little thready but still there.
Ok, here, take these, go home and if you need help call an ambulance tomorrow. make sure you go over to Community Hospital next time, they take patients without insurance if you don't tell them.
Bye bye, dontcha all come back now ya hear?
Who was in the E.R. bleeding from the mouth and being ignored by the staff. So her boyfriend called 911 to ask for help!!! And because she was already at an E.R. they wouldn't help her!!:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/
"Best...health care system...in the WORLD!!!!!!!"
"We're Number 37"
without Corporations and their media complicating things.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/21/cbs...
Texas. That explains a whole lot right there.
Perry is under investigation for allowing a completely innocent man get executed. Bush and Gonzo barely reviewed cases. They just sent each other faxes and shouted START THE DRIP!
Poor Mr. Range is but another victim of that hell hole of a state. The Bushes live there. Nuff said?
to secede?
Let them - but close the borders first.
...I can scrape together enough money to get out, damn it.
A lot of us aren't here by choice.
No matter how nice and orderly an emergency room is, no matter how well they ordinarily manage triage, they are going to be swamped this winter, and perhaps for longer. This will affect not just swine flu victims, but anyone who has to go an emergency room. Civility and systems will break down more often; every night will be Saturday night, and Saturday night will be worse than ever. This will not be the fault of one state or one hospital.
INstead of having to dick around with the CEOs of the corrupt health insurance companies, we should be passing universal health care and then turning around and spending some money on the systems that can deal with this. One system is making sure that everyone has a physician, PA or nurse practitioner so that folks don't need to go to the emergency room with swine flu -- almost always a bad idea.
the flu.
America, you've got the best health care system for every woman, child, and man in the World!!
c'mon!!! This sucks! Nobody should have to suffer this... no one!
if you can afford it.
and my point is that it's one of the worst systems in the world... certainly as bad as third world countries. Pathetic, sad, and pitiful describe the U.S. healthcare system, without going into greedy, class-based, and I could go on and on, but I'm certain you get my drift.
but this crap has been happening in this country since it broke off from the British.
It wasn't until the Clinton Boom years that people we're dreaming we were actually making progress from the misery Republicans have inflicted on this land for so long.
Back in the 50's you could go to any hospital and they had to take you in.
They'd bill you if they had an address, but it was between you and your credit rating whether you paid or not.
The State or Local governments, or charities, would make up the shortfall.
It's much worse now.
If you can afford to pay cash you mean.
Texas and a Catholic hospital....
at this point. At least from the vantage point of people who don't live there. Only place worse would be Vegas or D.C.
Grrrrrrrr, America in general is a brutal savage place.
We've gone down tubes Big Time since Nov 2000.
Especially with one third of the country now considered functionally illiterate.
.
Glen Beck rented a stadium in Seattle and 7,000 came. The Dali Lama rented a stadium in Seattle, and 65,000 came - it couldn't hold more! There's hope yet-
that treated Cheney's gunshot victim
With all the problems left this country by Bush and the GOP, Savanah Guthrie interviewing Obama on NBC asking about why their were no woman at the congressional basketball game Obama was playing in.
I guess because, you know, the Democratic Party in the party that's anti woman and because the we are not still in the Republican Great Recession and 2 Republican failed wars.
....and that Brian Williams, he grates my nerves. it's like having the news reported by a very important Ward Cleaver.
seem to be to try to act like a man in a profession. Not exactly liberation.
Sad to see it come to this.
I think we need to ALWAYS have someone accompany us to doctors and hospitals unless we are very familiar with our medical caretakers and may even then it is a good idea.
I had a stroke ten days ago and my son took me to the emergency room of a local hospital. I stayed there four days, and if my DIL had not been there, I might not be in the land of the living now, on several counts. My DIL had to stand up to a nurse who was determined to give me a large dose of insulin, when I'm not diabetic and had just eaten a hospital meal -- after fasting for 11 hours for a test the doctor decided I didn't need. Wrong doses of medications for this stroke were given when they could have killed me. The list is not short, and I am now terrified of hospitals after being extremely healthy and staying out of them for 35 years. The initial cost for those four days in the hospital was $32,000, and that isn't all the charges either -- more to follow.
Insist on your rights, never take the position that the doctor or medical staff knows best and just surrender your care to them. Insist on knowing EVERYTHING, the dosage of medicine, the treatments, WHY, etc. Have someone there as a witness at all times if possible, and an advocate for you.
This poor family. It isn't only Texas. Georgia may not be much better. No one else will guard your life, which is what it comes down to.
these days. Your correct also. Know your Patient rights. I also understand your concern regarding the "competence factor". Truly scary.
Get well soon.
Annie,
You hit it right on the head!
DON'T BELIEVE FOR ONE MOMENT THAT YOU'RE IN GOOD HANDS WHENEVER YOU GET INVOLVED WITH HEALTH "CARE"....
Too small for insurance
A guy who was crippled with sciatica who couldn't sit or stand was ordered off the floor. I went home because I couldn't wait 10 hours to find out why I was bleeding internally. They had no water fountain, all water was a long walk away ("Out the door, to your left, about 3 blocks down take the second right, past the west clinic elevators, blahblah blah..."), or Dasani, which cost a 1.25. In a public health hospital.
That was in May.
ERs are crowded BECAUSE we don't have national health care.
like to know more before jumping to conclusions. I would not let someone I loathed sit on a hospital floor, people bleed, urinate, defecate, vomit, etc. and it can be cleaned, but was it cleaned to remove all trace of any bacteria or virus? At the hospital in which I work we don't let people sit on the floor, we get them a chair, can't speak as to why they didn't get him a chair. I've offered people chairs and they insist on sitting on the floor and for a variety of health and other reasons they cannot be allowed to sit on the floor.
People show up drunk, high, angry, demented, etc. you never know what you are going to get. People let themselves go and then expect a McDonald's drive-through treatment to correct 30+ years of bodily abuse. And, on top of all of that, people are using the ERs as a clinic and clogging up the process and waylaying treatment for those that really need it.
I'd really like to know a lot more about this case before I decide what I really think. Details are missing or very limited and I'm sure there's far more to this, on both sides, than we've been given here.
sick and homeless. I think the facts finally came down on his side. Too bad he had to die for it.
if they kicked him out because he was homeless, but I would not EVER allow any of my patients or family to lay down on our floors, I shudder to think what's on them because I know what's been on them.
I tire of the broad brushes that paint all medical professionals as greedy and uncaring, I am neither. My patients are treated with respect and dignity (even though I do not necessarily get the same from them)whether they have insurance or not, whether they are homeless or not. The homeless are a very challenging population to care for and, unfortunately many times have issues that complicate the care, however, to turn one out is unacceptable, and this is still not clear, some quotes say he was tired of waiting and others imply the guard made him leave, or he felt he should leave when he wasn't allowed to lay on the floor.
I think I might be able to help you out with why people use the ER as a clinic....
The american public has been taught to use it as such. You see, people who get sick DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER OPTION. ESPECIALLY IF THEY DON'T HAVE ANY HEALTH INSURANCE.
I believe the Federal law is still in force that says that IF YOU SHOW UP AT AN EMERGENCY ROOM, THEY ONLY HAVE TO STABILIZE YOUR CONDITION. THEN THEY CAN TURN YOU LOOSE ON AN UNSUSPECTING WORLD.
I wonder if they realize that one of the negative outcomes of this nifty little H1N1 virus is an increased possibility of PULMONARY EMBOLI....(for all you non-med folks out there, that means you have a HIGHER risk of dying from BLOOD CLOTS IN YOUR HEART AND GREAT VESSELS)
http://www.auntminnie.com/index.asp?Sec=sup&S...
CT reveals acute PE risk in patients with severe swine flu
By Eric Barnes
AuntMinnie.com staff writer
October 21, 2009
The H1N1 flu virus is hitting population centers faster and harder than some had predicted. It's become clear that coping with the infections will take more than an ample supply of vaccine, though that piece will be crucial. Minimizing the mortality associated with swine flu will require creative use of a variety of tools to assess the disease and its severity.
For that task, chest CT is emerging as a useful modality, both to confirm H1N1 diagnosis when other tests are equivocal and, as shown in a new study, to assess lung damage in the most seriously ill patients.
Researchers studying CT scans have found that patients with severe cases of the H1N1 virus are at risk for developing severe complications, including pulmonary emboli (PE), according to a study published online in the American Journal of Roentgenology. PE was seen most frequently among obese H1N1 patients.
Pulmonary embolism occurs when one or more arteries in the lungs become blocked. Aggressive treatment with anticoagulants can reduce the risk of death.
The clinical manifestations of H1N1 disease include flulike symptoms such as fever, cough, sore throat, body aches, headaches, chills, and fatigue, and in some cases vomiting and/or diarrhea have been reported, wrote Dr. Prachi Agarwal and colleagues from the University of Michigan Health Services in Ann Arbor.
"With the upcoming influenza season in the U.S., knowledge of the radiographic features of S-OIV (H1N1) is important, as well as the virus' potential complications," they wrote (AJR online, October 14, 2009).
Of 222 patients identified with S-OIV (H1N1) infection over the three-month study period, 66 who underwent chest x-ray for the detection of H1N1 abnormalities were examined in the study.
I can remember a time when MDs actually had offices.
THEIR OWN OFFICES.
OUTSIDE A HOSPITAL.
With office hours.
Of course, I'm just a geezer who worked in the medical industry for more than 35 years. So I guess I'm just having a senior moment.
Medicine and healthcare USED TO BE SOMETHING HALFWAY DECENT in this country.
THEN, IT BECAME A BUSINESS.
Sad.
Just very, very sad.
very well why people use ERs as a clinic, it's no mystery, that wasn't my point, it was to point out why ERs are so clogged and ineffective - they are not being used as intended. Here in Clark County, Nevada, we have a pretty decent county health clinic that serves anyone regardless of their ability to pay. They have multiple sites and are located in relatively convenient sites, however, even the ER at the hospital in which I worked is now functioning more like a quick care than an ER. Perhaps it's poor communication, perhaps it's conditioning, whatever it is, it's rendering our ERs crowded and ineffective.
Apparently Irving Range was a homeless man, so I'm not surprised a guard asked him to "move along". Here are some more details provided by a Texas AP report.
really.
I had a heart attack back in June , had been laid off so was without insurance , had signed up for Cobra assist but was not in effect yet , long story short I went into emergency , got out of surgery and it wasn't a couple hours before the hospital billing department was calling my room in intensive care to ask how I was going to pay . God almighty ! I just got out of surgery , was still doped up and not even with it yet ! My wife took the phone and told them off . Got home from the hospital and office of my long time cardiologist called to schedule a follow up appointment / check up , I explained that I was laid off and on unemployment ( first time in my life at 58 years old ) and that funds were low that I couldn't pay full charge for office visit but could manage normal co pay , that insurance will kick in again but it will be a couple of weeks . " Just a minute sir " , I wait , woman gets back on the phone and says " I am sorry , you'll have to call us back when you get insurance ." In other words you just had major heart surgery should be checked out to make sure all is OK but FU because you don't have the money or the insurance , call us back when you do . I knew it was bad but I was shocked to experience it myself , it was hard to believe . What has this country become ? A country of dog eat dog savages who's only value and virtue is $ and greed ? Exactly ! Never ever accuse me of being patriotic , anymore that is an insult as far as I am concerned !
I like this site, but someone needs to post the wing-nuttedness of Bill Maher's recent comments regarding H1N1 vaccines, advising pregnant mothers to avoid and saying that anyone who gets it is an 'idiot'. If we're going to call a nut a nut on this website, he deserves his place on here with Glen, Rush & the Fox crowd. He's an imbecile.
on this site. There are a number of people who agree with him. A large number of people. Obviously you are not one of them. Calling Maher and imbecile does not help your argument at all. The vaccine is contaminated with Thimersol and squalene. Google squalene and Gulf War Syndrome. Google Thimersol. Some THINKING people do not want to be exposed to this toxic mix, preferring to take their chances with the flu. Everyone has the right to choose, or are you a Republican?
Watch the videos of him and tell me you agree with everything (or much) of what he was saying ... i'm not saying people shouldn't have a right to choose, I'm not saying there aren't risks with vaccines ... I'm saying that to outright dispute the value of vaccines (he pretty much says they are useless) and to say tehy're idiotic and supporting his argument with much many false claims is no better than those this site mocks.
He did not dispute the value of all vaccines. Your argument is not even specious, it is merely worthless. I will waste no more time on it. TTFN.
And you can go for single-dose without Thimersol.
Though I presume you'll have more ideas for why it's dangerous waiting in line behind your first two.
you do not even have your facts straight.
http://www.cdc.gov/H1N1flu/vaccination/pregna...
Does the 2009 H1N1 flu shot have an adjuvant or squalene in it?
Adjuvants are agents that are sometimes added to a vaccine to make it more effective. There are no adjuvants (such as squalene) in either the 2009 H1N1 or seasonal flu shot used in the United States.
you want to believe. I hope you got your flu shots, and you can have mine, too. BTW, there are web sites with DOCTORS saying that Thimersol does not cause autism and that squalene is a naturally occurring substance in the human body, therefore, harmless. If that is all your simple mind requires, then you shall rest easy tonight.
Appreciate you giving me the same rights I would give you ... I did reiterate that I'm not suggesting mandatory vaccination. Assume you're with me now (after checking on CDC ... unless you don't believe them either and put CDC in same category as Fox) that you can get H1N1 without either squalene and thimersol in it.
Truly wasn't seeking big argument with you ... so we can move on. Best of luck.
[Still think Maher advising pregnant women to avoid was a Tom Cruise moment :)]
people here hate me (because I am a smart ass) but I really want to know about this Gary Nulls Guy. My mom is getting ready to get a vaccine for the h1n1. Please someone medical tell me if this guy is crazy. I won't post the link again, so the moderator won't K(ick)MA.
http://cryptogon.com/?p=11786
{You need to link to the Youtube video directly. The link you've provided stutters. SiteMonitor}
Also Google "Dr. Mercola," "h1n1 vaccine," "adjuvants," and anything else you think relates to the flu shots. I love your name. I wish I had thought of it. Good luck.
People who are most at risk - elderly, young, people in medical occupations, etc - should get the vaccination.
People who preach against vaccinations are not considering the consequences of becoming infected with the targeted illness. They're more concerned about potential side effects that, according to guys like Andrew Weil, have not been clearly connected with the vaccines. Weil is a medical doctor with tons of research and experience in alternative therapies, as well as traditional western medicine. Null, on the other hand, is a supplement and book salesman.
The problem is that here in the U.S. we don't regularly see really horrible outbreaks of killer diseases, so people think we have nothing to worry about. But why don't we see the outbreaks? Because vaccines are effective, and are overall quite safe.
How do you know how many people were vaccinated as opposed to how many people just did not get sick even though exposed to the flu virus? Consider how hard, if not impossible, it is to prove a negative.
did you hear what he said? It sounds like your ears were closed and you are saying what you would have said before what you heard. he wasn't selling anything.
What about the facts that he brought up? Can you address that instead of your opinion?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Null
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation...
I'll leave it to others to parse the details of the material he presents, but read up on the guy and decide for yourself if he's got the credentials you want to turn to for advice & scientific judgment.
Am I dealing with the "person", not the "facts' presented by him ... yes. Do I waste time trying to judge the accuracy of those without credentials when there are thousands of credentialed scientists out there ... not too much ... at least not until he gains the ear and admiration of a meaningful number of them.
the wall street bankers are the pros, give them them the trillions... they know best.
I will read up on the null fellow, but I also know the pharma guys are crooks and greedy.
crooks and liars :)
I'm not saying put blind faith in the scientists & doctors ... but at least look to their community and pick those who make sense for your advice over a quack with no medical or scientific degree.
And I would do the same with my money.
Hutton also clarified some of the claims made by Null during a phone interview. In regards to Null’s claim that additives like squalene or thimerosal are in, or may be put into, the vaccine Hutton said “ there is no squalene in the vaccine at all. Thimerosal is used in trace amounts in only the multi-dose vials, to act as a preservative. It is not in the nasal spray or single does syringe forms of the vaccine.” Hutton added that “If you’re really squirrelly about it [thimerosal] you can ask your physician to give you the single-dose syringe.”
vaccine in this country. Europe is a different story, according to your sources. I am wondering why you are so invested in pushing your view of the vaccine situation. Why is that?
how about this young lady, what the docs say about her?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh5F5wP8RdU&fe...
I was just trying to respond to the concerns being raised. If those ingredients are the two concerns (and in the US), then they're off the table as they can be avoided.
Am I concerned by them ... no my (simple) mind isn't :)
I don't think these are the trustworthy type. IMO
http://www.garynull.com/articles/BigPharma102...
you don't need to be conformed to understand. He has done his research which points to the fact that they have not. No double blind studies, every study done by the vaccine companies - none independent, etc, did you watch it?
How about the trillion dollars in settlements? Or 40,000ish people dying from 1 drug. I ask again did you watch the video?????????
Feel free to watch & believe. BTW, he sells all kinds of "untested" snake oil remedies. Where's the indignation over that.
But at least do searches point-by-point and find out for yourelf ... and build up a picture of how honest this guy is being the minute you find one or two distortions (e.g,. ingredients that he lied about for NY State, not Europe).
As for clinical trials on flu vaccines. I believe they don't do them anymore because the techniques are so well proven (in prior trials) as they aren't worth the effort.
rather than the techniques were well proven?
So assuming you're in the US ... we'll leave the Brits & French to another comments board ... what ingredients now concern you with H1N1 vaccine? As for "proven", I was speaking to the effectiveness of it as a vaccine, not safety of ingredients ... important, but a different topic.
So what's the next batch of concerns with US H1N1 vaccine risks?
ingredients. How can you discuss a vaccine and its safety without considering its ingredients? Do you know someone who calls himself "Chrome" something? Anyway, how can you prove that someone who took the virus and did not get the flu was protected by the vaccine? You can't do it. You cannot prove the effectiveness of the vaccine by citing the number of people who do not get the flu as proof it worked. How many who do not get the vaccine will also not get the flu? Smoke and mirrors.
As I said ... safety of ingredients is critical and must be tested, as they all are ... despite denials to the contrary. So wasn't saying that.
If you're saying it's impossible to construct a study to prove that a vaccine is effective (which is false), but also saying that "how the heck can they put this vaccine out there with no 'proof'" ... well that's kind of a no win situation.
But you didn't answer: What ingredient is of concern, given those two that you cited as being avoidable?
"how the heck can they put this vaccine out there with no 'proof'" You did. Actually, you assumed that is where I was coming from. You also assume that I believe your argument that Thimersol and squalene are not in the vaccine. I do not. How do you know where the vaccine comes from? Huh?
Oh ... so let me get this right. You believe the CDC is lying about Squalene & Thimersol? Or that the companies producing the vaccine are slipping it in there in secret?
If that's where you're at ... then enough said.
Let me think about this... Yes. They would lie. How does the CDC get its information? From the drug companies? Either you do not know how corporations work, or you are not being honest. Look how many drug recalls there have been lately. Enough said.
Yes .. they would, but for what gain in this case? Why would the spike it with ingredients? To "get you"?
If I follow that logic, you can have unknown stuff from food producers, herbal drug makers, and just about anyone who produces anything you might eat or put on yourself.
I'm just saying that at some point you have to believe something (from an odds perspective).
I suppose your answer is that the world of big business is lying to you and that's the safer call. Got it.
have to believe something, just drink the Kool-Aid and get it over with. It is cost effective to use one formula for all the vaccine produced, regardless of which country it will be used in.
You started off so strong with the two ingredients .. most definitely in the vaccine ... most definitely a concern.
Then we got no evidence of this, so we moved to "lies & conspiracy theory".
As you say, there's a point at which a person doesn't want to weigh the arguments.
Okay ... I did say goodnight ... and then typed this .. which was wrong of me ... so I lose on those grounds I suppose.
Later.
You are not good at this arguing thing, are you? You present some contrary opinion, then get huffy if your opponent doesn't agree with you. The assumption that your opponent does agree with you could be fatal to your argument.
Sleep well.
as i suspected. You shut you eyes and ears, but your mouth remains open. No problem.
Okay ... crabster ... you asked, but I guess you didn't want to hear afterall. I pointed you to plenty ... and pointed to two false statements in his testimony that I did hear.
Don't ask when you already have decided on the answer.
I presume you've got mom's answer regarding what to do.
'nite.
I also looked at Null guy. I am not so smart that I refuse to learn. NP, your choice.
BTW ... I did go see what that 40,000 people dying from 1 drug was about ... as I was curious ... and it so happens that I was prescribed that drug(Vioxx) and at the time I did some reading of medical journals (this was well before the recall and the hoopla) ... and I chose not to take it, as there was enough "science" out there questioning its safety (i.e., peer-reviewed studies).
So I DO believe that blind trust is a mistake ... I DO believe to check the research ... and I even do throw out "consensus from the FDA" when there is enough question.
But I'm not seeing it on this topic ... yet.
Good to keep an open mind.
yes ... I put that one in there just for you :)
Okay ... been fun, but time for me to turn in.
Keep laughing people! Afterall, that's what this site is mostly about.
And laughter really is the best medicine. [Caution: The preceding statement was not peer-reviewed, not tested with placebo, not the words of a doctor and therefore of suspect validity.]
for going to see.
Too bad we're seeing it from the inside.
It is amazing to me how the lessons of history are so freely available to anyone and everyone, yet both the people in power and the masses always do the exact same thing.
It's easy to criticize the folks in power for creating this system -- but where are the people in the streets demanding a public option???
The public option is a ruse. No one should be allowed to profit off the health of others.
I was on the floor in pain and they gave me pain medication and sent me home, about a week later I was in Portland and suffer more pain and there they discover that my kidney were failing, and they could not believe after looking at my medical record that the doctor in Roseburg ignore the obvious sign of kidney failing. I didn't have insurance, and been told often that without insurance they look hard to not find the causes of your problem.
Obviously not all of them, but far too many value opportunities to dominate and victimize others over providing real security.
While this was terrible and tragic, it really has nothing to do with healthcare reform - at least not directly, or even tangentially.
I wonder if he would have been treated this way if there was universal coverage? I wonder if he would have been treated this way if he wasn't homeless?
I wonder how he would have been treated in a civilized country? Like Norway.
This country leaves a lot to be wondered about and even more to be desired.
Seems to me to reflect the values of the security guard. A trait shared by far too many in this country, as well as many (all?) others. Trying to turn it into an indictment of the United States seems a bit of a stretch to me.
And for all of our faults, this is a "civilized country".
BTW, what makes you think the guy was homeless?
My definition of "civilized" does not mean inundated and placated with material goods. Why can't we make sure that everyone has what they need to live, and an opportunity through education to advance themselves and society, too? Is that too much to ask? That 1% that is ruining everything should take their money and move to Monaco. Or Dubai. Or just go to hell. I am really fed up with greed and selfishness. And it is not an indictment. It is a mere thought that I followed. You do not want to see an indictment from me. Like Sybil Fawlty, I can drop a man at ten paces with one lash of my tongue.
the ER would not have been filled to overflowing. In the early part of this decade, I would have a two or three hour wait. On my first visit, since my BP was 197/154, I was seen tout d' suite. After my cancer treatment started, I had and 8 hour wait (5 choppers came in after I got there) and several 1-2 hour waits, which is interminable when you feel ill enough to go to the ER.
Last time, I should have done what I had always sworn to do after my LAST visit, call 911 and ask for transport, and go to the UWMC, not Harborview. UW and Harborview both have access to my records.
Instead, not wanting to make a fuss, I got a ride to Harborview. Like I said above, it would have been 10 hours, my gut was cramping and I was bleeding internally. Luckily, I know a few tricks, my doc was supposedly not in when I wandered over to the clinic, found him and did two crits to find out what sort of loss I was having (negligible). He wanted me to return, but I reminded him of my previous blockage and lack of free H2O in the ER and he reluctantly acquiesced to my wishes.
I was at home, in bed asleep 3-4 hours before I would have been called.
BTW, in Norway, citizen or not, care would have been delivered post haste and immediately. Same in France and other top ranked countries with socialised medical care.
Interesting, because I live abroad and every once in a while, I'll take a look at the CNN Nation page, because it has a bite-sized run-down of news stories. And it's easy to see the common thread running through U.S. news stories: it typically comes down to greed.
Have a look, you'll see what I mean.
Why is there so much security? Because so many people are poor and disenfranchised that they end up desperate enough to rob, steal and commit crimes to eek out an existence. Imagine that, to the point where it's necessary for security guards and police to be omnipresent to protect personal property.
It all comes down to money. In the U.S. people don't want to give up a little of their money for the greater good. This causes all sorts of ramifications. People fall through the cracks. Their education isn't as good. There's no place to go when they lose their job, so they become homeless. They become desperate and turn to crime. They die for no reason.
These are all symptoms of a selfish, greedy society, one that places money before its own stability and comfort.
this isn't my blog so I am not trying to pimp it.
http://cryptogon.com/?p=11786
you can see it on youtube also
Gary Nulls (some alt health radio guy) talking to the NYS assembley about their vaccine program. It is powerful and scary.
Please watch it and slam me here if I am a fool for being sucked in. But this guy seems to have the facts and a lot of rightous indignation. Also He is HUMAN.
How is this society more free than communist USSR?
Maybe a bit hyperbolic, but seriously consider it for a moment:
The USSR incarcerated people in Gulags; the US has Guantanamo and incarcerates more people per capita than any country on earth.
The USSR spied on its own people; the US spies on its own people.
The USSR had government-controlled media; the US has corporate-controlled media.
The USSR had universal healthcare; the US has...oh, that's right. Even the USSR wouldn't let its people die in the emergency room.
There is so much that is not in this post it is sad. There is so much in the comments that follows that is sadder.
First, this death happened almost two weeks ago. Why post it now? Why was an AP version of the Houston Chronicle used when better information is available from the Corpus Christi Caller Times, the paper in the city where it happened?
Second, the family is quoted claiming the man told them he was asked to leave by the hospital ER security guard. Why wasn't he living with his family instead of a homeless shelter? Could it be that he was required to live in the shelter as a condition of his parole from serving prison time for Felony DWI?
Third, the man had been admitted to the hospital and tests were being done. He says he left on his own.
Fourth. here is what the manager of the shelter said in comments to the Corpus Christi paper:
"I am the Director of the shelter that Mr. Range resided in before his death. He had a "Clinic Card." This means that the hospital WOULD be paid for his care.
The normal operating procedure would be for him to go to the Northside Clinic. However, they are overwhelmed WITHOUT the flu. This man got sick quickly. He would have never lasted until he could make it to an appointment.
I was very surprised at the Security Guard's behavior-if that is in fact what happened. That IS what Mr. Range told us when he returned to the shelter Thursday night. Sad... I have taken many homeless to Memorial through the years, and they have received excellent treatment.
They had done blood work and x-rays, and he was waiting back in the lobby for test results. He was VISIBLY sick. I can't believe that the guard didn't hand him a pillow and blanket. This hospital has a GOOD track record of caring for the indigent-yet this man is dead. I don't understand...but I will withhold judgment until someone gets all the facts."
Too bad some people who write comments here do not have the good sense of the shelter director to withhold judgement until someone gets all the facts.
This article seemed unbalanced to me and I was wondering what the other side of the story was. The hospital may still be at fault, but it would be nice to have all the facts on hand before passing judgment.
doesn't change what happened. It simply adds a bit of nuance.
Just because the Director of the Shelter is surprised by the security guard's behavior doesn't make what happened any less appalling.
And you seem to be making judgments about the man and his family because of his homelessness, even as much as suggesting that he was probably a criminal:
"Why wasn't he living with his family instead of a homeless shelter? Could it be that he was required to live in the shelter as a condition of his parole from serving prison time for Felony DWI?"
Criminal or no criminal, family or no family, home owner or homeless, well-kept or drunk and smelling of piss, nobody deserves this treatment, no matter what the facts.
was accurately reported by him to his mother, who told it accurately to one reporter, whose story was then reported accurately in the local paper, then again accurately reported by a Wire Service reporter, then linked to by a blog and picked up by this blog. More degrees of separation from the incident itself than Beck usually finds between Obama and Mao.
My point is that there could have been an incredibly insensitive security guard who caused the problem, or an incredibly crowded ER
that caused a sick man to get frustrated at the delays and leave. We don't know. We do know the director of the shelter, with experience with both the man who died and the hospital, says the incident not caused by his inability to pay, and happened in a hospital with a good record of treating the indigent.
Perhaps, when asked by family and friends why, when he was so sick, he would leave, he found an excuse to blame the hospital
security guard. Or perhaps he mentioned the incident with the guard without stating it was why he left, and other jumped to the causal connection. People writing in this post and comments section have certainly done some big time conclusion jumping. From the headline you would think the man died in the streets after being physically evicted from an Emergency Room instead of in the hospital itself.
My concern is not changing the facts. I was concerned that they were incomplete and that many jumped to conclusions that were not warranted.
Fox news watchers are old. They are the ones in most need of health care. I'm sure there also poor. If fox is sucsessfull with this anti health care propaganda it will ensure that fox news watchers decline.
Best in the world huh??? This is BS. Everyone in Congress should have their health care taken away. Starting with Lieberman.
yelling, "We're number 37. We're number 37. And second to last in infant mortality. Go USA!"
LACKAMONEY.
“Our security guards don't escort anyone out or ask them to leave unless they become belligerent,” she said.
I suppose it never OCCURRED to these for profit bastards to do something RADICAL like get a DOCTOR to examine him and others like him before they ask him/them to leave. Or maybe they were thinking that if this guy and others like him is/are that sick and he/they has/have no health insurance and we have to treat him/them or lose our ability to participate in Medicare and Medicaid, and its going to be REALLY expensive to treat him/them, maybe we will get the security guard to act all official like and bully him/them into leaving so we can say with a straight face afterward when he/they die(s) that the security guard is not a medical professional and couldn't POSSIBLY know how sick he/they was/were. Ya Think?
Oh, yeah. And don't be telling me that just because it is a 'non-profit' that it does not make a profit and its administrators all wear sackcloth and ashes.. A 'non-profit' simply cannot return profits to stockholders or principals like a for profit corporation or partnership can. It doesn't mean that it can't charge equally ridiculously high rates as for profits and pay its administrators and church or foundation 'sponsors' HUGE salaries and contributions. It is a for profit piece of shit hiding behind a loophole in the tax code that the whores in DC and Austin created for it.
Yeah right. That's why so many countries are talking about adopting the US healthcare system.
If you think this is bad wait for the flu infected uninsured to swamp your Emergency Rooms and hospitals.
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