Tens of Thousands of Refugees Are Fleeing Taliban in NW Pakistan
By Susie Madrak Thursday May 07, 2009 5:00pm
This is a priority for the administration because it has the potential to make things in the Middle East region so much worse than it already is:
When Taliban fighters first entered Karim's village last month, he recounted, they said they had come to bring peace and Islamic law, or sharia, to Swat. But the next day, two of the fighters dragged a policeman out of his truck and tried to slit his throat. Horrified, a crowd rushed over, shouting and trying to shield the officer. The fighters let him go, but the incident confirmed the villagers' worst suspicions.
"We all said to each other, what sort of people have come here? And what kind of sharia is this? Cutting off people's heads has nothing to do with Islam," recounted Karim, 55, a bus driver. "The people were filled with great rage, and great fear."
Authorities in North-West Frontier Province said that with the conflict intensifying, they expect half a million people to flee the once-bucolic Swat region near the Afghan border, much of which is now occupied by heavily armed militants. Officials announced Tuesday that they plan to open six refugee camps in the safer nearby districts of Swabi and Mardan, but until then, many who leave home to escape the violence are facing the arduous task of finding their own shelter.
As the refugees begin streaming out of Swat and the neighboring Buner district in northwest Pakistan, they carry with them memories of the indignities and horrors inflicted by occupying Taliban forces -- locking women inside their homes, setting donkeys on fire -- as they tried to force residents to accept a radical version of Islam.
The government has not helped, refugees said, with its erratic, seesawing efforts to appease and fight the militants. Some said they felt confused and trapped, unsure whether to trust the peace deal forged by the government and Taliban leaders last month, or to flee in anticipation of the fighting that has begun as the peace accord collapses.
Sher Mohammed, a property dealer from Mingora, the main town in Swat, was one of the first people to reach a new refugee camp in the Mardan district with his wife and children Tuesday night. On Wednesday, he kicked the dirt outside their tent despondently, saying that after enduring two years of fighting and Taliban abuses, he had had enough.
"I feel like I have lost my mind," he said. "I work hard to make a respectable life and educate my children. Now we are living in a camp, and my sons are talking of guns."
Mohammed said he did not understand why the country's powerful army had not been able to defeat the militants before they took over the valley. Even now, after a week of sporadic fighting, military officials have not announced an offensive against the militants who occupy much of Swat and Buner. The Taliban has repeatedly rejected government overtures to salvage the peace deal, in which the militants agreed to disarm if sharia courts were made the exclusive form of justice in Swat.
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Obama campaigns on increasing the fight on "terror" (US Trademark) and how he's going to go into Pakistan and Afghanistan surging for terrorists, and suprise, surprise, suddenly there are Taliban swarming all over Pakistan, just offering a valid excuse for more Predator drones and more bombings. A tad too convenient. Sounds almost Bushish. Naw, not Obama.
Afghanistan.
Pakistan.
I'm not sure I understand the Canuck's point.
Got to get the pesants out of the way I guess
This is not a job for the US military, who should be tasked with defending our country and not creating more trouble and radicals. This is a no-brainer. Just look at the decades-long historical record of US military involvement in foreign countries.
There are much better ways to handle the situation, which is primarily the domain of the Pak government, which has more than enough resources to deal with the problems.
And yes, this does sound like something out of the Bush playbook, which begs the question of the US government's consistent approach to foreign policy regardless of the type of figurehead president, D or R, that is elected.
never mind that bush fucked this up to
remember when the taliban were totally defeated?
didnt need any more troops in afghanistan
basically, bush got us into 2 vietnams
just as my brother in law, a former idf soldier who served in lebanon, predicted
What a fucking nightmare!
Just maybe they are fleeing the fucking crazy americans in las vagas pulling the real time, real death FUCKING DRONES triggers. I would.
Between you and the Canuck I think I'm missing something here.
No 911 no anything except a bunch of american suckers . millions in fact.
...knew that this would be happening and decided to send a whole bunch of troops last month.
yup, it sure is a good thing we got all those troops over there...things might be a lot worse if it werent for Obama sending in more soldiers like he did...(snark)
(my guess is) ...that our (20 thousand or so?) troops are driving/herding the Taliban fighters right out of Afghanistan and strait into Pakistan. on purpose? ...just like last time when Bin Laden escaped from Tora Bora!
You don't even have to mention the Airlift of Evil to realize that these concocted wars are something more than what the propaganda coming out of the Defense Department reveal.
Although I do find it humorous to propagandize about 'evil terrorists' cutting off the heads of a few people, while dismembering an entire family - not just their heads- by killer robots is not even given a mention or framed in barbaric terms.
It didn't matter who occupied the White House. Pakistan will be in total chaos within a matter of months.
I'm beginning to believe that humans might actually be a mistake of nature after all, and I suspect a major correction probably is forthcoming.
"I'm beginning to believe that humans might actually be a mistake of nature after all, and I suspect a major correction probably is forthcoming."
I say, " there are governments all across the globe (and some nearby) who totally agree with you and have some sort of "population correction plan" in the works already.
Whether or not humans are an evolutionary mistake, it’s impossible to know. Pointing the finger at institutions like governments instead of the individuals who make up those institutions is a distinction without much difference.
Human history seems to have shown that that we're basically incapable of living together peacefully as a species.
The "elites" read Malthus and have acted, as always, in their own best interest since.
It's nice to see Muslims saying things like "Cutting off people's heads has nothing to do with Islam", even tho that's not quite the case. From the Qu'ran:
"When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives." Surat Mohammed:4
The Qu'ran is a very violent book, & if a person were to believe every single word in it, it should be no surprise they'd want to behead everyone all the time (since to a radical Muslim pretty much anyone can be an infidel, even fellow Muslims).
Wanton slaughter of entire towns, massive violence, pestilence and worse are the domain of the Bible. The Qu'ran is a child's book compared to that evil tome. And let's not mention what Jesus brought to this beloved fairytale- The most extreme torture against human beings for eternity. Not pretty.
The bible is very violent, too. It has promoted stoning and doing away with a lot of folks.
Having said that, I do think the Taliban need to be crushed. They are extremists and can't be trusted. They beat and kill women. They want to use their religion to run the country in much the same way they ran Afghanistan. The soccer stadium was a killing field there.
These are the kind of people that should NOT have access to nuclear weapons.
Only Us Christians Know How To Handle These God Given Nuclear Weapons, Peons !!!!!
Get a grip, Joan Crawford.
TALIBAN, as troublesome as they are, are NOT a threat to take over the country. Such an idea is the domain of TV shows like 24! Pure fiction.
I never said they were a threat to the US. They are violent extremists and they are a threat to that region of the world. Giving them nukes is like handing a nuke over to the likes of Charles Manson or Pat Robertson.
I'm shocked at how many defenders the Taliban have here. They beat and kill women. They ran gays over with tanks. They used their religion to justify the atrocities they committed.
You don't think they'd use their religion to justify dropping a nuke on India or any other country that they could lob it at?
WHO is going to give the TALIBAN NUKES? WHO?! Either voluntarily or by force, where would that scenario ever happen other than in a comic book?
How do you crush extremists when all you do is create more extremists?
The solution seems to be to provide a better life for people so they don't turn to extremism in the first place.
The broader issue is the West's determination to create Nations where tribal warlords in fact rule.
Outside of Kabul, "Afghanistan" is ruled by local warlords.
The NW Tribal Areas were formally incorporated into Pakistan only 40 years ago, and obviously never fully assimilated.
So the wars rage between the War Lords and the Western attempts to create Nations.
And the peasants are caught in the middle.
The rulers of our (democratic/republic?)have to make money some how
http://www.tenc.net/articles/jared/jihad.htm
Sure make them love their liberators also
And it keeps them out of the poppy fields
http://christianparty.net/talmud.htm
I always supported the war in Afghanistan. When bin Laden hit us, we have to remember, we said to the Taliban that our quarrel wasn't with them, after all we supported the Taliban when they threw out the Russians. But, they sided with Bin Laden, and hence, the war.
Our big mistake was not finishing what we started, by working with Musharraf while his government was strong in Pakistan, by finishing off the Taliban and Al Quaeda in Tora Bora. Now, the government of Pakistan is much weaker, and there is concern that the nuclear warheads are vulnerable. But I saw a report that said that while the nuclear warheads are accounted for, nuclear fuel is not accounted for. So, it is possible/probable that the Taliban/Al Quaeda extremists have a dirty bomb capability now.
There's a lot of recognition that Islamic extremists are the lot who desire to possess a nuclear device with the intent of immediately exploding it. The nutcases in this world are not confined to the Republican party.
I can see the Republicans and Fox News wave their flags and claim they are the party of national defense. I just can't see how they can do it with a straight face. The final proof of how stupid it was to abandon the war with the people who attacked us, in close proximity to the least stable country with nukes, in order to fight Iraq, who didn't attack us, and had no nukes, could very well come in the form of a mushroom cloud, or at the very least, a smokey cloud, laden with radioactive nuclear fuel.
I think we missed the boat by not finishing what we started while Musharraf was in power. Now, I think that the right approach is to try to strength the central government in Pakistan, and recruit international support to do so. One way to garner international support is by not restarting the cold war with the Russians, like the Republicans wanted to do.
When Pakistan drives against the Taliban, they can currently fall back over the border in Afghanistan. And we're still bogged down in Iraq, and the suicide bombs are increasing to try to keep us bogged down. It's a mess, and I don't know why any Democrat would have taken impeachment off the table when it became clear the Bush lied about the Iraq threat in order to divert this country from the real threat.
Bush refused.Getting Bin Laden was never the real gold just the excuse to invade take over the poppy fields and oil pipe lines
Plus Bin Laden is from Saudi Arabia as was most of the so called suicide terrorist (even tho 7 are known to be still alive) and I maybe wrong but none were from Afganistan
plus plus even if there was one from Afganistan who attacked us for our freedoms he's dead he ain't free he's dead (If you believe the official story)
Attacking Afghanistan in the first place probably is at the top of the list of mistakes we have made.
It's the one feminist organization in Afghanistan with members in Pakistan as well. I'm bringing this up because if you want important progressive viewpoints from this part of the world, RAWA's site is the place to go.
My only caveat is that I warn you if you're a very sensitive person, do not read the articles, see the photos, or watch the videos too close before bedtime. RAWA does an excellent job of documenting Taliban and other theocrat tyranny, but if you're someone like me, a visit to the site can have you having nightmares for several nights, if not weeks.
Now, more specifically to the topic at hand...this is so scary for the people of Swat...not just the women and girls mind you, who indeed suffer horribly under the Taliban, but the men and boys too, who also tend to suffer horribly...
After US Strikes, Afghans Describe 'Tractor Trailers Full of Pieces of Human Bodies'
What the hell, weren't these guys supposed to be wiped off the face of the Earth like 7 years ago?! Oh wait that's right, Bush let them go and went into Iraq instead.
While they might not be a direct threat, they need to be eliminated. If they move against the government it could destabilize things with India.
bush will go down as the worst president in the history of the united states
100 years from now, they will be questioning the sanity of the people that elected that fool....twice
Millions are and have been questioning the sanity of the idiots who voted Bush two times , don't have to wait 100 years for that !
what would you have him do?
and if you say, total withdrawal from the region
shall i remind you of what happened the last time when we totally neglected afghanistan?
The thing is if we just leave the problem isn't going to go away , we almost have to try and eliminate these freaks . If they got hold of a nuke these lunatics would not hesitate , when they kill they are blessed and rewarded by God for cryin out loud ! They do not value life at all . Their goal is our destruction and to convert the entire world , it isn't like if they get what they want in Pakistan and Afghanistan they are going to stop . So far we've been half assed , need to get serious and get it over with .
If they got a hold of Pakistan's nukes, whether though theft, or overthrow, shit will hit the fan. While they might not threaten to use it on the U.S. or U.S. forces, it'll definitly put India in a paranoid mood, and we can only guess what that could lead to.
From your freakish scenario, based entirely on fiction, I assume that you devote several hours of FOXNEWS infotainment viewing to your daily routine.
We cannot eliminate them by massive violence which will only radicalize the population against us. We have to think about what is in AMERICA's best interest, and that is not to continue this mass-murdering empire.
We shouldn't be involved in Pakistan's internal affairs.
But I'd like to bring up that the taliban did take over Afghanistan.
We all know why the taliban got a foot hold in that country.
Because the US stopped the funding after the Soviets fell.
Now, we're talking Pakistan. I don't think that the taliban has the where withall to over throw the govt of Paksitan. I don't think that there is much of a threat of nooks ending up in some crazy fookers hands. Unless, some super religious fundie supporter of the taliban somehow got access to them( or one). Which is highly unlikely.
But they do have to police their own. This will get worse before it gets better. But the sooner they start. The sooner it's over.
And lets not forget India. They can't be very happy right now.
The Taliban were only successful in Afghanistan as a result of PAK help and support. They still did not fully control the entirety of Afghanistan and were at odds against regional warlords - even a gang of them called the Northern Alliance.
The Taliban is like any other group of lunatics. The way to stop them is to attack the reasons they get recruits in the first place. Either make it difficult for them to go round up recruits/converts at gun point, or create a situation where people have no reason to join them.
The problem is Pakistan's government just doesn't seem to know what to do. They gave an inch with allowing that region to be ruled by sharia, and the Taliban took a mile. Their camps need to be destroyed while at the same time prevented from recovering their losses.
And the whole issue with Pakistani nukes complicates things. If they get a hold of one and start running off at the mouth, I seriously doubt India will just sit there, those two have a history of not liking each other since the British left.
Now that Democrats are fully in power, the Democrat blogs are all pro-war? That's the way it looks.
douchbaggery knows no party,
Right?
Just not the muslims.
douchbaggery my ass.
Do you ascertain that I'm pro war?
Geebuss fooken keeeryst.
Woke up on the wrong side of the bed this mornin?
Bump your head when you got up?
Stub your toe when you got out of bed?
Did the dog shit in your shoes?
Pro War?
This is Pakistan's problem. I think I made that clear.
No, I don't want to see another war.
But Pakistan does have to do something. Right?
I suppose you would like for everyone to just smile and say can we all get along.
Do you remember the beheadings in the soccer stadium?
Or when they stoned women to death?
It must be nice to ignore this stuff and not feel anything. Nevermind what they've proven themselves to be.
Let me know when you come too.
This has turned out to be a bitch fest.
CYA
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