We've Already Nuked Ourselves Over 2,000 Times
From Tyler Durden over at Zero Hedge, this absolutely riveting post:
Who needs a wartime nuclear exchange when you have peaceful countries nuking the gamma rays out of their own sovereign territories - now that the environmental theme is rather popular, the following video by Isao Hashimoto shows all the nuclear "tests" conducted by the world in the period between 1945 and 1998.
Based on public data, the world's peaceful countries have already nuked themselves at least 2,054 times, with the US nuking the state of Nevada and its immediate neighbors about one thousand times. And keep in mind - the fallout does not just miraculously "disappear." Feel free to consider that next time you look at bargain properties on the strip.
Anyway, as Idealist asks, "How would your life be different if you were taught in school a small nuclear war already took place?" One thing is certain - Congress would be stunned and appalled, and the disgraced CEO of Nukes R Us, Inc., who previously gave trillions in campaign contributions to every Congressional critter, would be facing a very unpleasant and theatrically televised day.
This is a bit misleading. I don't know the exact numbers, but after the above-ground nuclear test ban, all tests were conducted underground. I'm not saying these were entirely without consequences, but fallout is not one of them. It would be good to know the number of nuclear tests conducted before the above-ground ban.
Did some quick searching and found that the total number of above ground tests was around 500.
Go to http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/nuclear/atest... and scroll down to the table labeled "Summary of listed detonations" and it has a breakdown by country.
you would have wound up here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/...
which details atmospheric vs underground explosions.
But you didn't.
"Trust no one, Mr. Mulder." - Well-Manicured Man
If you had bothered to look at the signature above your post, you'd have noticed that I answered my own question.
But you didn't ;-)
Nuclear Saber Rattling
Hell, I've already done that just nuking potatoes...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
the U.S. has used in Iraq, Afghanistan and that "our good friend Israel" has used in Gaza.
The increase in birth deformities in Iraq has been devastating.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
malnutrition and worse during the years of sanctions .. and then this ..
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
below ground nuclear tests do not produce the same amount of fallout that air blasts do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l55NdOnFU5I&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
That means they're perfectly safe! In fact, while typing this, I set off 4 warheads that I buried in my back yard in about 3 feet of dirt, it was AWESOME!
"I could give a flying crap about the political process.... We're an entertainment company."
- Glenn Beck - Forbes interview; April 26, 2010
Try tying them to a dog's tail...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
"fearmongering" is not a word. Oh, and as you say "do not produce the same amount of fallout that air blasts do." but there's still is a massive fallout. Don't worry, it'll only give ya cancer. Thumbs up m8!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
you'd rather spend time waxing anal about grammer than getting the point i was attempting to make, that the fallout of an airblast is much greater than an underground test. the effects of 2000+ air blasts would be much greater than that observed today. the film isn't being entirely transparent with data.
"Fearmongering" is indeed a word. You can add the suffix "-monger" to lots of words when you want to say that someone's selling something, whether it's fish or war.
Second, there already is an epidemic of cancer in the U.S. I saw maps years ago tracing the fallout from some of the nuclear testing in the Southwest. I grew up in central Illinois, and some of it even reached there. (Just about everyone I know has either had cancer, has it now, or knows someone who has had it. I had ovarian cancer in 2007 ... three years in remission now after chemo left me disabled.)
I lived in Las Vegas for some 14 years while a lot of that testing was going on. One night, sometime in the mid-'80s, I was driving north along Decatur toward home about 2 a.m. when suddenly the whole northern horizon glowed white in a low, broad arc, and then slowly faded down.
The USA has spent over $21,000,000,000,000 on our nuclear arsenal. At one time we had over 30,000 nuclear weapons in our military.
Now, we have approximately 9,000 but I do not know if they are multiple warheads or not. Do You?
Now, pick out 30,000 targets for those Nuclear weapon, or even 9,000.
"Yeah .. $21 Trillion might sound like a lot, but you'd be singing another tune if the Communist Soviet Union had won the Cold War."
I'm sure that if you rattled enough aging conserative's cages you'd hear more than one of them singing that tune.
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
My spelling should tell you enough.
However, though, if 'nuking' the hole, in effect covering it up in a glass-type substance...
I've heard many many 'experts' say that drilling the 'relief' wells probably won't work.
I've seen the estimate of oil spilled go from 5000 barrels a day to over 100,000 a day.
Experts may or may not agree.
Apparently in Russia they have successfully stopped uncontrolled oil-spillage by nuking the well.
We've nuked many parts of the US withouth the public's knowledge.
Tax payers have FUNDED many ugly nuclear experiments.
How about nuking this horrific hole - seal it indefinitely. Yes, by a nuke.
I mean, lose the Gulf of Mexico? Or perhaps lose the Gulf of Mexico?
I say, do whatever it takes. If nuking it is what it takes, I'm all for it.
The Gulf of Mexico is dying right now. BP..., well, BP should NOT have any say on fixing this.
BP should be FOREVER banned from drilling anywhere in the US. If other countries would take notice - they'd ban BP as well.
Mind you, Shell is no different. Shell has an HORRIFIC history on drilling and spilling.
Just take a look:
http://www.eca-watch.org/problems/eu_russ/rus...
http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2010/06/nigerian-s...
Great idea, nuke the ocean. What a bout a tsunami? any other brilliant ideas, wooden shoes boy?
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Ok, well, let the millions of gallons of oil just spill then.
The 'top hat' didn't work, nothing works.
The experts say the the relief wells are a gamble - most likely they won't work.
What's YOUR idea, Alerta 'boy'? 'Girl'?
We should just let the entire Gulf of Mexico perish and die? Until the BP and other Oil Companies find a way to stop the gushing - something they should've done YEARS ago??
What my idea is? That Hans Brinker plugs it with his dick!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Hans Brinker is a US invention - nobody in Holland knows about this character.
Once I became legal, my GF and I were going to go to Holland.
My mother-in-law asked my GF (during dinner!!) if GF was going to 'stick her finger in the dike'.
I couldn't look at anyone in the room.... I mean, really??
Yet she was serious and thought she asked a 'Dutch' question.
Niet waar. Hans Brinker is bekend hier omdat het van Amerika hier naar toe terug is gehaald.
Lul niet man!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
En het verhaal over Hans Brinker is van een Amerikaan!
Niemand in Nederland weet wie Hans Brinker is.
Kutwijf.
Of, misschien, klootzak!!
Niemand? Mischien ben je dan de enige die dat niet weet. Maar ja, dat is niet zo verwonderlijk als jij de zee wilt nuken.
Een kutwijf of een klootzak maakt me niet zo veel uit.
Intereseerd me geen zak wat een rand debiel denkt.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Als jij niet weet dat Hans Brinker een Amerikaans verhaal is, dat dat niks met iemand in Nederland te maken heeft, of had, nou ja....
Achtelijk? Is dat het woord?
Of het engelse woord 'ignorant' - misschien een beter woord voor je.
Hee, dat weet ik.
Dat betekend niet dat niemand in Nederland het verhaal weet.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
scheld partij hebben, he?
...ben je in het woordenboek aan het kijken????
Miegert. zoek dat maar op in het woordenboek.
Dat is Drents. Lul de behanger!
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
..zie, ik spreek GEWOON Nederlands, 'miefert' bestaat niet in ECHT Nederlands.
Lul de behanger? Echt?
Jezus...
Lol, Je hebt de Quote fout. Ik weet niet hoe je spreekt, waarschijnlijk met een vreselijk Westers accent.
( Ok You Guys. Exchange emails or something. This is getting rude. This has gone far enough. I'm sorry, but this is getting rude. Thank You. SiteMonitor)
Edit: Sure, np :)
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Who ever this is - they're Dutch, perhaps, but they're, well, strange.
Thanks for stopping this weird dialogue!!
..the whole thing is in Dutch - it wasn't even that offensive.
Do you have a Dutch 'monitor'???
...ik bedoelde 'miegert'.
Drents, Twents, 't maakt niet uit.
Je bent een kut/trut/klootzak/lul.
Leuk toch, om dit te kunnen zeggen - ik meen het!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWHXxmUgMGw
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
And now they want to nuke the oil leak. we are a screwy bunch.
...Oceans and lands have been nuked thousands of times.
Just read and watch:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/how-world-nu...
Nuke the whales.
*thumbs up* :)
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
...fight that!
Other than that - ALL OTHER WILDLIFE IS DYING IN THE GULF OF MEXICO!
The so-called conventional methods certainly don't work.
Nuke the damn hole - turn the top into a 'glass', a something oil/gas won't be able to get through.
right now, immense/incomprehensible amounts of oil and methane gas are gushing. It's gonna kill the Gulf of Mexico, if not our entire way of life.
BP is fucking us over. So are the other major oil companies.
Nuke the hole, stop any other drilling from happening.
FORCE OUR ASSES INTO DIFFERENT SOURCES OF ENERGY!!!
The reaction i made was on Dahgrostabph. On the *nuke the whales* poster that Nelson Muntz has in his room, that he referenced on.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
Tyler Durden over at Zero Hedge is definitely a good guy to follow and keep up with from time to time. Thanks for the post.
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
To me, it simply doesn't seem that BP or any other 'Giant Oil Company' has any viable option.
See, in Europe, with enough regulation (and apparently enough enforcement!!) Oil Companies are REQUIRED to drill relief wells. They all, apparently, get actually INSPECTED.
Apparently, in case of a spill, the Dutch government gives the 'Oil Company' 2 weeks to clean up.
If they don't, the Dutch Government steps in (THEY OWN CLEAN UP EQUIPMENT), take over, make the Oil Company pay for it.
WHY DOESN'T THE US HAVE THIS SAME, SENSIBLE, SYSTEM????
Because of pay-offs, bribes, etc.
Mostly, NOBODY in the US Congress has the 'greater good' at heart.
They care about themselves and their financial donors.
It's not a 'democracy'. It's an oligarchy. Let me post the definition:
oligarchy [ˈɒlɪˌgɑːkɪ]
n pl -chies
1. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) government by a small group of people
2. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a state or organization so governed
3. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) a small body of individuals ruling such a state
4. (Government, Politics & Diplomacy) Chiefly US a small clique of private citizens who exert a strong influence on government
Cause Europe is full of socialist commie countries, remember?
Universal healthcare, and what not...
The way I've heard it, that's Norwegian law, not necessarily that of the UK, who's the other major player in North Sea oil drilling. It isn't an EU thing.
[That was a reply to Dutch's comment above.]
Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust.
.imply that it was EU law.
All I was trying to say is that laws and regulations about offshore oil drilling in different European countries....well, the regulations are strong and ENFORCED!!
Plus, the countries are aware of the risks and PREPARE for them!
The US sees itself as the 'ultimate democracy' but it turns out they're the one being bought by Big Business.
However 'messy' European Democracies may seem, they mostly care about 'the people', for real.
Americans elected to office seem to be either holden to:
1. The biggest donors - which amounts to bribery.
2. The 'PARTY" which smells like Communism.
The US Democracy is a joke.
It combines Capitalism with Communism and Corporate Socalism.
The US typy of 'Democracy' needs to, will, and SHOULD fail.
funny how you forget about the bomb, what with all the various crises glaringly extant; poor old H- bomb, just kind of lost in the shufffle.
...it still may be the one and only nasty option.
The well is at 5k ft. On the ocean floor. The well goes down an additional 14k ft. I see what you're saying . I just don't think it will work. Way too much pressure. I understand that you think it might cook off everything around it and turn it to glass. But that much pressure coming up from almost 3 miles below the ocean floor, would just find a way around it. Or, it could completely explode.
All of it. The whole damn thing could explode.
Thanks, but I'll pass on nuking it.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
All I'm saying is that all these engineers right now simply don't know what to do. The relief wells may or may not work - more than likely they won't work.
All I'm saying - if the 'ultimate solution' (those relief wells, apparently) don't work in August (the earliest, mind you) well, what do we do????
Make the well(s) bleed uncontrollable oil for another few months/years??
Do you have ANY idea what that would do to the GLOBAL environment???!!!
All I'm saying is that IF nothing else works, DO try and nuke the well.
If we don't - we might as well keep Dr. Kevorkian's phone number on speed dial.
Prayer doesn't work. Trust me. If God didn't want this to happen - he would've stopped it.
Praying right now, after fervently supporting off-shore drilling...well, it seems to me you got what you prayed for.
If there is a God - s/he wouldn't have wanted you to rape what s/he gave you.
Live and die with what you prayed for.
That I was ever a proponent of offshore drilling?
Quite the contrary. I've been against it since I was 13 years old. I'll be turning 53 soon.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
but I would like to clarify a point:
I was under the impression that BP had drilled 25,000 feet beneath the ocean floor, while their MMS lease limited them to about 19,000 feet. Could you provide a link that states that BP only drilled down about 16,000 feet?
Even with a nuclear weapon detonated 5,000 feet below the surface of the Gulf of Mexico, there is a very good chance that when the superheated vaporized crude oil and methane reached the surface, it would spontaneously combust explosively as it combined with the atmosphere. That would create the largest fuel-air explosive event known to man, threatening all life and limb and every other oil platform in the Gulf of Mexico. [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel-air_explosive ] The effective blast radius could be 200 to 300 miles, or more.
There is also the distinct possibility that, instead of fusing the ocean floor in a plug of radioactive glass, that the shock-wave could fracture and collapse the bedrock above the subterranean oil field, releasing much or all of that crude oil immediately. That doesn't even explore the oceanic and atmospheric release of radioactive decay products, or even nuclear treaty violations.
The suggestion bandied about of using a nuclear device to fix this problem is unthinkable -- regardless of Russian assurances of at least an 80% success rate, by their admission.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
And I think you might be right about the depth.
I wasn't thinking about a spontaneous combustion on the surface. I was thinking more on the lines of that whole base of oil and natural gas way down there exploding. I hadn't thought about your perspective. But now that you mention it....
What is your conceptual, continuity?
for it to explode down there, there would have to be an outrageous amount of oxygen or oxidizer present. Methane is flammable/explosive in concentrations between 5-15% in air. Air is just under 21% Oxygen. So there would have to be at least 1.3x the amount O2 available compared to methane down there.
As for the fuel-air explosion on the surface..... well I have no idea to tell you the truth. I have no where near enough experience/learning/etc to have any idea of the possibilities of it. I do know that thermobaric explosions are very tricky and exacting. It would require that the methane/oil be heated hot enough and mix with the air in proportionate amounts. Would the outside burn as it was hitting the air and use up the available O2 and snuff itself before the majority burned? Would it mix enough that most of the methane would go up quick enough to cause a pressure wave? Would it burn in a "controlled manner" ie a slow enough burn to continue but not quick enough to cause a pressure wave like a gas stove? Would it not burn at all?
That could most likely be answered by supercomputer simulations run where the "experts" already simulate nuclear explosions, like Sandia Labs at Los Alamos, NM, or perhaps JPL in CA.
But given the reports already mostly glossed over in the news regarding the instability of the bedrock in the GoM, like crude oil seeping from other fissures away from the DeepWater Horizon, I would think that the further they drilled into the bedrock to avoid my first scenario, the more likely that my second scenario would come into play -- the collapse of the dome over the oilfield, that instead of sealing the leak with radioactive glass an ELE (extinction level event) is created with the uncontrolled release of most||all of the remaining crude oil/methane in the oilfield.
We have no business permitting oil exploration at these water depths, and with harsher conditions that even NASA doesn't handle. Especially, I might add, without a rigorous and comprehensive government inspection program. Self-regulation by the very same corporations that benefit their bottom lines has been proven, time and time again in industry after industry, to be ineffective -- greed always seems to reign supreme.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
Fun Fact: Every human being living on the planet today has trace amounts of plutonium in our systems as a direct result of atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons.
Gee I wonder why the cancer rates jumped so high in the decades following all of those tests. I'm sure it's nothing to worry about.
A dome. 180 ft high. With legs to sink into the ocean floor. Somewhere around 50-60 ft deep into the ocean floof.
In these legs, have rods that are shot out by some kind of remote controlled explosion. To anchor it to the ocean floor.
The footing of this dome would also have a 50ft rim sticking out at the bottom, resting on the ocean floor. The rim would be for stacking weights on it. Somewhere around 100 tons each. And made in a way as to stack them on top of each other, to insure a secure tight fit to the ocean floor.
Hey, it's just an idea.
The only condition I have is, this well is to never be used again.
And no more deep drilling. Hell, I want all offshore drilling to cease.
But, that's a pipe dream.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
But they've been saying that now the floor around that well might be cracked, and that new leaks could occur. Your idea is probably good on a stable ocean floor, but in the area of this well this might just cause more problems by forcing the pressurized oil out from other places.
I think what you're bringing up is around the well itself. Around the concrete casing. This dome would be 180ft wide.
So, that means it would be centered over the well, sticking out 90 ft in every direction.
I've been thinking about those lips I mentioned. They might be too wide. Probably better to make them 25-30ft. That should be enough room for weights.
This idea isn't perfect. But it's better than nuking it.
What is your conceptual, continuity?
First off, nukes don't cause tsunamis. They may be powerful but they are not a fraction of the power of mom nature. The video shows several hundred open water detonations without any tidal waves. Second, it may not be necessary to melt the rock so much as collapse the rock around the well casing. Third, 10 thousand feet of crust is a long distance from the bottom of the gulf floor. This well is, relatively speaking, a mere pinhole in the earth's crust. I guess my biggest concern would be damage to other wells in the vicinity. I am by no means an expert on this stuff. But, there are plenty of explosives experts around (since we have so much experience blowing things up) who should be able to explain whether this idea should be considered. Maybe just once we have found a rational use for these abominations. I think maybe it will be considered in October when it is painfully obvious that the relief wells are also not succeeding.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
Tyler Durden has criticized Barack in the past.
That's quite the catchy little aleatoric tune there that plays while the bombs go off. Had me tapping my toes. "The Obliteration Shuffle?"
It looked like either France or England detonated some in the Western US. Don't understand that. And it looked like the US detonated some near Louisiana. Did not know that.
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