They're still denying reality
By Steve Benen Sunday Jul 08, 2007 7:13amEven now, poor conservatives can't come to grips with reality.
On the July 6 edition of CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight, while discussing President Bush's commutation of former vice presidential chief of staff I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's 30-month prison sentence, Wall Street Journal Opinionjournal.com editor James Taranto falsely claimed that "[t]here's still no evidence that [former CIA operative] Valerie Plame [Wilson] was a covert agent."
Newsweek, two months ago:
An unclassified summary of outed CIA officer Valerie Plame’s employment history at the spy agency, disclosed for the first time today in a court filing by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, indicates that Plame was “covert” when her name became public in July 2003. […]
While assigned to CPD, Ms. Wilson engaged in temporary duty (TDY) travel overseas on official business. She traveled at least seven times to more than ten countries. When traveling overseas, Ms. Wilson always traveled under a cover identity — sometimes in true name and sometimes in alias — but always using cover — whether official or non-official cover (NOC) — with no ostensible relationship to the CIA.
At the time of the initial unauthorized disclosure in the media of Ms. Wilson’s employment relationship with the CIA on 14 July 2003, Ms. Wilson was a covert employee for whom the CIA was taking affirmative measures to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States.
This isn't complicated.
Login or Register to post comments.
Honestly, what can you do in the face of such stupidity?
"Lisa, go cut me a switch!"
It makes perfect sense, if you live in Wonderland and your name is Alice.
The head of the CIA stated that there "was no doubt" that Valerie Plame was indeed undercover.
Which means,
James Taranto is a lousy reporter or just another lying Bush shill.
Lying in this country/culture has only minor consequences.
That's why they do it.
...
Besides, if they say it loud enough, often enough, it becomes the truth.
When you're in charge you can just dictate what the "official" truth is. All dissenters are obviously enemies of the state.
It's beyond me why these nimrods can't grasp the simple fact that Valerie Wilson was covert. That fact has been confirmed repeatedly by people who are in a position to know. Clearly, some people are living in an alterate universe where facts don't matter and you can go on believing what you want regardless of the facts.
they have to lie, their argument would fall flat if they were to tell the truth
Republicans & Reality...
Goes together like Peanut Butter & Anchovies...
Some times you have to wonder, do these people like, James Taranto, even bother to check out what they are saying or are they just lying? There are times I hear people talking on tv and they will say something that is absolutely the opposite of what all of us know. I don't think some of them put a whole lot of effort into their information, they just make noise. If they know the truth but say otherwise, then they are plain old lying.
Man, the tobacco lobby would kill for this kind of defense of the indefensible.
thats the right-wing for you. they try to rewrite or deny reality, even with reality staring them in the face.
This isn't denial, this is a tactic. They are counting on the general public not knowing about the unclassified summary of Plame's employment history, since it was pretty much treated as a footnote by the MSM. It's calculated propaganda and media manipulation, just like everything else in this case.
Spicegal @ 7:
Back to "believe (religion)" vs "fact" (science)
If you believe, you don't have to accept reality - no matter how real it is.
.
The righties all big lie techniquers hoping the channel surfing sheeple will catapult the propaganda to their relatives and think they're the "smartest one in the room" by reciting the talking points at family gatherings
Del Capslock @ 13:
Totally agree...what's even more shocking than someone w/ an agenda lying about stuff, is that the host's of these shows allow/enable these people to get away with it...Isn't it libel to publically lie about someone like that?
AConfederacyofDunces @ 4:
I mean lying under oath doesn't even garner jail time! You bet that is why they do it.
Don't expect Fox to stop playing their favorite hits anytime soon, either. "We know Wilson lied", "Plame was not covert", "no underlying crime", "we know Plame lied", blah, blah, blah.
Hell, the fake Nixon fudge library is first being corrected now.
When the massive volumes of sanitized fiction are put on display in the bush libarry they will feel right at home in their designated wing of the Creation Museum.
They are firm believers that if you tell the same lie over and over and over ad-nauseum, then it will be accepted as the truth.
But lets face it, these are the same people who belive Iraq had something to do with 911, and that there were WMD's, and that Bush did the right thing.
TIKI AL @ 18:
Thanks Tiki Al, I needed a good chuckle with my morning coffee.
This isn’t complicated.
Sure it is. After all in America, all we have to do is have someone make the counter claim and until the liberals give up, the counter-argument is always the other side and people should just decide for themselves what they believe the facts to be.
Let's have fun with an example:
Majority statement:
"The Colts won the Super Bowl through skill and determination."
Minority, counter-statement:
"The Colts won the Super Bowl because I wished upon a star."
Until you prove that there's no way that the wish upon a star gave the Colts that championship, the cause of their win is still up in the air so news stations put opinions on and then they tag it in a way similar to FOX's "we report you decide" tagline. It's total BS, but this is where we're at in political discourse in this country. My dad until a few weeks ago thought Valerie Plame was not classified and EVERY right-winger forgets Novak also exposed her cover operation as well.
Does this really suprise anyone? I read the article yesterday linked here from the gentleman in the ozarks, former repub so fed up he wants to hurl his typewriter. Then I read the comments section. ALL of the wingers who posted repeat this lie. She was not covert, it was a "non" crime, it was a waste of taxpayer money. I am so fed up with the outright lies that are fed as news today. I started college in prejournalism and never would have thought about doing something like this. These are types of things that used to get you hung out to dry as a journalist, if not sued. Shit, look at Rather, and all that was over a "forged" document that most of are pretty sure wasn't forged.
NPR did exactly the same thing just after the commutation. A guest host (Rebecca?) on TOTN let someone from the WSJ, probably this same guy, state that Valerie Plame was not covert. Let him repeat it a couple of times. I tried to call but couldn't get through, but another caller challenged him. The host never took a position, just let the deliberate lie stand. David Schuster should be held up as an example to every radio or television anchortainer. If they can't run with David, they should just crawl back under the porch.
No this isn't complicated at all. Every intelligence agency around the globe, both allied and enemy alike, tracked Plame's every move from start to finish, rounded up everyone they could identify that may have been linked to her in their own counties and eliminated them. Then, they used the Bush Administration's own actions in outing Plame to send a subtle message to anyone else that may be thinking about working with the CIA. The message being: "The Bush Administration has outed one of their own and because of it, we have rounded up all of the traitors in our midst. Think twice about working with any CIA operatives because that CIA agent you are providing information to may be outed next by The Bush Administration. If that happens, we will find you and kill you."
The Bush Administration is the most treasonous bunch of people I have ever seen. They can spin this all they want but if people really think about it, they will see that the Bush Administration is a bunch of traitors as well.
"We report, you decide" turns every opportunity to tell the truth and educate the public into a multiple-choice test. If you aren't prepared, you fail. That is a piss-poor way to cover the news.
Another page out of the nazi book of propaganda.
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent , for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension , the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.": Joseph Goebbels / Hitler’s Minister of Propaganda
"Wall Street Journal Opinionjournal.com editor James Taranto falsely claimed that “[t]here’s still no evidence that [former CIA operative] Valerie Plame [Wilson] was a covert agent.”
When anyone says this to you ask them this question:
If Valerie Plame was not a covert agent, why did she need a cover company, Brewster Jennings. Novak outed both Ms. Plame and her cover company thereby placing all other covert agents under that cover company in jeopardy.
Katie @ 27:
Exactly my point that I made at @ #24. Plus, the whole "she was not covert" spin makes little difference. No intelligence agency around the globe is going to take The Bush Administration's or a bunch of right wing talking heads word for it anyway. Would I take the word of Putin for example if his Administration outed one of his own FSB agents and/or front company? No, I wouldn't and I doubt the CIA would either. The CIA would back track that agents every move, then arrest, interrogate, and jail anyone they can tie to that agent. Its common sense in my opinion.
Joe O. @ 24:
No evidence whatsoever of any of this. If I'm wrong and you have a link to verify anything you've written is true, please provide one. If you'd like, I'd be happy to provide links saying just the opposite.
dennis @ 29:
Good, you take the word of the treasonous Bush Administrsation. I won't and neither will any foreign intelligence agency. The Bush Administration opened the door and now it will be exploited.
What if Scooter was in a meeting with bush and cheney, and one or both said:
"We know that outing the covert CIA agent Plame is a crime, but we are so pissed off at that big poopy Wilson, that we want you to leak it to our regular fiction peddlers anyway. And don't tell bush I, cause he frowns on that type of treason."
Would THAT be an impeachable crime? Or would scooter have to also be blowing them while he's getting his marching orders?
Joe O. @ 30:
JoeO., a polite request for a link to back up any of your contentions. I'm merely taking the word of many journalists who are quoted frequently here as friendly to the Plame/Wilson side.
As an aside, even Valerie Plame wasn't sure if she was covert under the law or not. Add her name to the list of the confused reality deniers.
Facts? Facts? We don' need no stinkin' facts. We are de Federales!
Everybody knows what happens next.
dennis @ 29:
The opposite, you say? What, links saying that CIA recruitment is up since Plame's cover was broken? That intelligence gathering and the cultivating of informants is easier now?
That would be "the opposite", and if that's what you believe, what shit are you on? And keep it away from me!
dennis @ 32:
This could be one who the Iranians were on to and he flew the coop to Turkey. Besides, there is no telling who the Iranian MOIS can link to her or that front company. In any event, The Bush Administration's actions have wonderful psychological effects on any potential Iranian sources willing to work with the CIA. All you have to do is say on every media outlet that you rounded up and executed a bunch of people linked to Plame or Brewster Jennings and watch to see who tries to run. The Bush Administration had better face the facts. No matter how they try to spin this the damage has been done. One way, or the other. I'm surprised though that the Kremlin or Tehran hasn't given them a medal yet.
http://www.federalnewsradio.com/index.php?nid=3&sid=1086017
dennis @ 32:
Dennis, give it a rest. Plame certainly knew she was covert. She testified so before congress.
dennis @ 32:
So as long as she isn't legally and technically "under cover", then it's all right? It doesn't matter that her previous waork was compromnised, and any chance of her doing future work for the CIA blown, because she wasn't actually "on the job" at the time her cover was blown?
Wingers like their details and technicalities when it suits them, berate Clinton for prevaricating over the word "is".
Hypocrites and liars.
Anyone who struggles to justify naming a CIA employee for political reasons should not be an American. PERIOD.
Priincess @ 32:
Princess is yet another anti-American reich-winger that supports lies and treason. Only a true anti-American would even think about posting something so supportive of treason and would knowing spread lies about the act of treason. How pathetic but completely expected of the scum of the reich.
Three Solid Sources: Valerie Wilson Was a Covert Agent When Team Cheney Outed Her
Only the most anti-American filth on the planet would actually attempt to spin and lie about the act of treason. Princess is on that list of the most disgusting filth.
Reality is just a nuisance to these people.
Valerie Plame stood up with raised hand and swore Under Oath that she was covert in front of Congress. Several idiotic republicans have accused her of perjury! They want her JAILED!!! These republicans don't care about facts or telling the truth if it contradicts their extreme views and criminal activities. Ms. Plame is a hero not a martyr. peace
In a May 25 court filing, however, special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald explicitly stated that Plame "qualified" as covert under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. Moreover, Fitzgerald attached to a separate filing a summary of Plame's CIA employment, which stated that, at the time her identity was disclosed in the media, Plame was chief of a component in the agency's Counterproliferation Division "with responsibility for weapons proliferation issues related to Iraq." The summary further described Plame as having traveled overseas in an undercover capacity "at least seven times to more than ten times" since January 2002.
Princess and her ilk are proof that reich-wingers will GLADLY sell out America for the sake of their party. This fact cannot be denied. Thanks for proving this, princess.
Well, the truth about the lyin', cheatin',hidin' wing nuts is making the rounds. Folks who still swallow this crap are being laughed at by their peers now. It's a sea change brought on by the blog world's pressure and influence on calling out these liars quickly and relentlessly. Bush's cadre of evildoers is helping to hang themselves with every conspiratorial move they make. They can't help it: it's genetic. Independents have jumped ship and most moderate Repugs will realign in the general election. Dems will have a blow out win. Let impeachment begin.
The CIA has said Wilson was covert — twice: At the Oversight hearing in March, Chairman Henry Waxman, D-West Hollywood, read a statement that had been approved by the head of the CIA, Gen. Michael Hayden, a Bush appointee:
Two months after she was outed, the CIA described Wilson as being an “undercover operative” in a letter to the Dept. of Justice:
Like a wind-up doll.
After the dust settles in the Wilson civil case, bush, cheney, and scooter will have to move to Florida to avoid paying the judgements.
OJ could join them for some golf and win the moral integrity award of the foursome.
Like a treasonous anti-American reich-winger.
Yo Dennis, where are ya? These people are eating your lunch!
dennis @ 47:
So you finally admit to being a troll who says things he doesn't believe, just to annoy people?
Don't you have something more worthwhile to do than being a sociopathic ass? Like wanking?
My question still is, why can't the Dem leadership do exactly what we have been doing? Countering the lies with the facts. They have the ability to do it on a national platform, we don't. Is it incompetence, laziness, fear of Rove? What the hell is wrong with these people? If the MSM won't do its freakin job, leadership needs to do it for them. Now, goddamnit.
TIKI AL @ 48:
I think Bush, Cheney, and Libby would be more welcome in Tehran. Afterall, they have helped the Iranian intelligence agency more than any acutal MOIS agent ever could. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me to find out that the Iranian MOIS offices have pictures of Bush, Cheney, and Libby as employees of the year.
Dennis took his ball and ran home.
Thanks for letting me view the take-down, gang. I appreciate it!
Stuart @ 51:
Princess is indeed a troll, sadly believes the lies she spews, and supports the treasonous activity of the reich-wing.
It's all a matter of faith. This is in bred among the mind of conservatives and nationalists alike. Reality has no place for them, just plain blind faith.
Reality, what a concept.
Got work to do, Bud. Nothing new from anyone. Just asked Joe O. for any kind of a link supporting his wild assertions. None have been forthcoming. Perhaps you could help him where no one else has been able to.
The Bush regime mantra on this as with their other high crimes and misdemeanors:
Spin
Lie
Deny
Even faithful people get pissed off if you abuse their faith too often. Our problem is that we don't have anyone on the national stage with the guts to expose the lies. That must change.
46 Dr. Matt
...report any such possible....violation.
Ooh princes, violate me, violate me!
No, princess, I do not want the supersize.
princess...
I need to use that spell-checker more. I over-yanked my wand.
They're not denying, they're lying.
If she was not a covert agent..why did Scooter lie?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Many on the right, but not all, are convinced, and unabashedly so, that they can fabricate reality irregardless of facts with a coordinated message strategy. Many are true believers and think it is pure genius, but it isn't. The phenomenon, as far as I can tell, is largely an outcome of the movement of quasi-psychological marketing techniques pioneered in Madison Ave. PR firms in the 30s and 40s into politics. If I hear that idiot on NBC, Chuck Todd, talk about political party brands one more time I'm going to poke my eyes out with pins, or something. Anyway, this kind of politics helps not the Republic and is in my estimation a reflection of the cesspool that is late capitalist or post-industrialist American capitalism. Really profound I know, political institutions being shaped by economic regimes and realities. I wish corporations had been a social entity when the Constitution was written.
66 Blobbo the Somewhat Great
Corporations appeared with the Industrial age in both England and US.
However, I don't think even Adam Smith dreamed of international and transnational corporations.
dennis @ 58:
Wild assertions? I don't think so. Its common sense and all you have to do is read the links that Dr. Matt posted to see what can be gained. But by all means Dennis, keep the faith in the Bush Administration. Those foreign intelligence agencies are having the last laugh. Unfortunately, its at our expense and all thanks go to your treasonous Bush Administration for giving them the opportunity. Tell me, who is the Bush Administration going to rat out in the CIA next time?
Like bush, DENy-peNIS thinks denial is a river in South America.
Oh, well, at least Taranto will have to worry about whether Rupert will let him keep his job.
Rightly so and something to consider. I should have been more specific as to the founders considering the transnational giants that have come to dominate late capitalism, not the East India Co., though it is the template for what has come. What do you think they would have thought?
They wingnuts deny their own brains.
James Taranto would tell any lie to help his terrorist pals.
dennis @ 29:
If you had them, you would have just linked them. If they're weren't make believe, they're most likely FoxNews links. You gotta love the trolls that spit and run. Keep yappin' like a little doggy.
Dennis = just another typical America hating terrorist.
Joe O. @ 68:
A lot of dancing from you, but still..... no links. I'll help you if you'd like. That's just the kind of guy I am.
WTF...WHY didn't Zimmerman or Kitty P. explode and challenge Taranto's
statement that V. Plame was "not covert"? That is what is wrong w/all of
the MSM. THEY let pricks like Taranto get by w/telling lies; spreading misinformation
and do NOT follow-up and make idiots like Taranto face the facts and equally as
important, let the viewing public know the truth. Makes me want to puke.
I always prefered MTM to MSM.
ysbaddaden @ 78:
I've had a brain-lock....What is MTM?
29 dennis
You're playing Argumentum ad Ignoratiam games.
I prefer playing with myself.
Funny thing about providing evidence on what's classified and what's not, is that it's probably classified. So to prove one's arguement, they have to commit the same crime.
That's tautology until the hangman's rope goes taut.
Doggiebobo @ 79:
Mary Tyler Moore's production company.
Oh meow!
What a jackass Taranto is. Of course Valerie Wilson was covert. Valerie Wilson says she was covert. CIA operatives with whom she worked, including Larry Johnson, say Valerie Wilson was covert. The special counsel who prosecuted Libby says Valerie Wilson was covert. The judge who sentenced Libby says Valerie Wilson was covert. The CIA head says Valerie Wilson was covert. Valerie Wilson's friends, neighbors and family all thought she worked as an analyst for an energy consulting company, not as an operative for the CIA. Valerie Wilson's career at the CIA effectively ended the day Novak revealed her identity to the public. In addition, any REASONABLE observer would conclude that if she wasn't covert, Scooter Libby wouldn't have had a motive to lie and obstruct justice to cover up what he'd done.
The idea that Armitage was the "real" leaker is ridiculous. First, it's clear that Libby talked to Judith Miller on the 8th of July, 2003. Robert Novak's column revealing Valerie Wilson's identity ran on 14 July. 8 comes before 14. Further, the question is not who revealed the information first. A leak IS NOT when the information is revealed in print -- the leak is when the information is revealed to ANYONE, such as Judith Miller or Matt Cooper, who has no reason to know it. For that matter, in this instance LIBBY had no reason to know about Valerie Wilson's employment. That's why he's lying and obstructing -- to avoid telling from whom he obtained the information, because that individual is just as culpable as Libby.
In addition, who decided there can only be one leaker, Armitage OR Libby? ANYONE and EVERYONE who reveals classified information to someone who doesn't have a need to know it is wrong. Suppose you know that John Smith is a CIA operative. Suppose also that you get a phone call from a reporter who says "I heard from 5 people that John Smith is a covert CIA operative. Can you confirm that?" Even though several other people might have revealed that information, and even though it might have already appeared in the media, YOU are STILL obligated to keep it secret, as was each of the other 5 people who revealed it. They're ALL wrong. Revelation is not declassification and only declassification enables someone who has classified information to reveal it to someone who doesn't have a need to know.
Taranto (and Mara Liasson in yesterday's appearance on Fox News) is simply part of a long line of Bush administration supporters in the media who minimize and explain away every lie, needless war, unconstitutional power grab, weakening of America's national security, coarsening of the national political dialog, no bid contract to a crony, and bribe or federal appointment to an unqualified and incompetent administration friend or relative. He has to know he's lying, yet he does it anyway, apparently deciding that his partisan political views are more important than the truth. He'd be ashamed of himself if he knew how to feel shame.
Scooter Libby lied to cover up his boss Dick Cheney's actions, which were all totally legal and above board. He lied to protect Dick's non-wrong doings from coming to light.
I mean, what loyal person wouldn't lie to obfuscate their superior's not at all illegal conduct?
Makes perfect sense. Right, kids?
dennis @ 76:
If you want to support a bunch of traitors to the United States thats fine. But, its obvious to just about everyone as to the damage that was done to the U.S. Its common sense and we would do the same damned thing.
But if you need convincing refer to the link below as to the effects from Plame's outing. This has been common knowledge for a while now. The podcast from Strategic Forcasting dated 06/07/2006 spells it out in great detail.
https://www.stratfor.com//reports/podcasts.php?
The CIA said she's covert, anyone that attempts to refute that is just a simpleton.
Spicegal @ 7:
It's a form of self delusion much like religion. The repugs are particularly good at it.
Valerie covert? It's not that simple... If whe wasn't wearing glasses with a fake moustache then she certainly was not covert! Anyone with any knowledge of covert operatives knows that you must always wear the appropriate disguise and talk in a funny accent. Sheesh...Do your homework.
An unclassified summary of outed CIA officer Valerie Plame's employment history at the spy agency, disclosed for the first time today in a court filing by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, indicates that Plame was "covert" when her name became public in July 2003.
There's not SUPPOSED TO BE ANY EVIDENCE!!!
What, no pictures of Plame in a black windbreaker that says "covert agent" on the back?
Would like to see numbers of how many people's lives and work were destroyed because of Plame's outing. The time or two I heard a spy expert talk on matter, they predicted significant and lasting damage.
More links
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0903/092903gsn1.htm
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/03/cia_leak_hearin.html
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_con...
Maybe if we keep repeating the FACTS, it will sink into people's heads.
How is this for a retirement epiphany?
http://www.signonsandiego.com/ uniontrib/ 20070608/ news_lz1e8boston.html
Time for the truth about the Liberty
By Ward Boston Jr.
June 8, 2007
Forty years ago this week, I was asked to investigate the heaviest attack on an American ship since World War II. As senior legal counsel to the Navy Court of Inquiry, it was my job to help uncover the truth regarding Israel’s June 8, 1967, bombing of the Navy intelligence ship Liberty.
On that sunny, clear day 40 years ago, Israel’s combined air and naval forces attacked the Liberty for two hours, inflicting 70 percent casualties. Thirty-four American sailors died, and 172 were injured. The Liberty remained afloat only by the crew’s heroic efforts.
Israel claimed it was an accident. Yet I know from personal conversations with the late Adm. Isaac C. Kidd – president of the Court of Inquiry – that President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack was a case of “mistaken identity.”
The ensuing cover-up has haunted us for 40 years. What does it imply for our national security, not to mention our ability to honestly broker peace in the Middle East, when we cannot question Israel’s actions – even when they kill Americans?
Today, survivors of Israel’s cruel attack will gather in Washington, D.C., to honor their dead shipmates as well as the mothers, sisters, widows and children they left behind. They will continue to ask for a fair and impartial congressional inquiry that, for the first time, would allow the survivors themselves to testify publicly.
For decades, I have remained silent. I am a military man, and when orders come in from the secretary of defense and president of the United States, I follow them. However, attempts to rewrite history and concern for my country compel me to share the truth.
Adm. Kidd and I were given only one week to gather evidence for the Navy’s official investigation, though we both estimated that a proper Court of Inquiry would take at least six months.
We boarded the crippled ship at sea and interviewed survivors. The evidence was clear. We both believed with certainty that this attack was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew.
I am certain the Israeli pilots and commanders who had ordered the attack knew the ship was American. I saw the bullet-riddled American flag that had been raised by the crew after their first flag had been shot down completely. I heard testimony that made it clear the Israelis intended there be no survivors. Not only did they attack with napalm, gunfire and missiles, Israeli torpedo boats machine-gunned at close range three life rafts that had been launched in an attempt to save the most seriously wounded.
I am outraged at the efforts of Israel’s apologists to claim this attack was a case of “mistaken identity.”
Adm. Kidd told me that after receiving the president’s cover-up orders, he was instructed to sit down with two civilians from either the White House or the Department of Defense and rewrite portions of the court’s findings. He said, “Ward, they’re not interested in the facts. It’s a political matter, and we cannot talk about it.” We were to “put a lid on it” and caution everyone involved never to speak of it again.
I know that the Court of Inquiry transcript that has been released to the public is not the same one that I certified and sent to Washington. I know this because it was necessary, due to the exigencies of time, to hand-correct and initial a substantial number of pages. I have examined the released version of the transcript and did not see any pages that bore my hand corrections and initials. Also, the original did not have any deliberately blank pages, as the released version does. In addition, the testimony of Lt. Lloyd Painter concerning the deliberate machine-gunning of the life rafts by the Israeli torpedo boat crews, which I distinctly recall being given at the Court of Inquiry and including in the original transcript, is now missing.
I join the survivors in their call for an honest inquiry. Why is there no room to question Israel – even when it kills Americans – in the halls of Congress?
Let the survivors testify. Let me testify. Let former intelligence officers testify that they received real-time Hebrew translations of Israeli commanders instructing their pilots to sink “the American ship.”
Surely uncovering the truth about what happened to American servicemen in a bloody attack is more important than protecting Israel. And surely 40 years is long enough to wait.
Boston served as chief counsel to the Navy’s Court of Inquiry into the attack on the U.S. Navy intelligence ship Liberty. He also served as a naval aviator in World War II on the carrier Yorktown and as an FBI agent prior to his assignment to the Navy’s Judge Advocates General Corps. He is a graduate of the the College of William and Mary School of Law and a resident of Coronado.
thepoetryman @ 87:
What, no Groucho nose, and dangly eyeballs on springs?
thepoetryman @ 87:
What no Groucho nose, or dangly eyeballs on springs?
Reich-wingers believe this is what a covert agent should look like: http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3135/65351tme92c1cawn7.jpg
This thingy is going berserko.
96 Dr. Matt
That's certainly making a point.
I'd druther they got their own TV series intead of the Geico neanderthals.
I saw that interview. Lou Dobbs wasn't doing it but he had a stand in and she did a good job facilitating the exchange which was hot.
The Democratic Strategist fellow did a good job putting Taranto in his place and calling him on each of his lies. He made Taranto look like a fool.
But it's obvious the Wall Street Journal is just another mouthpiece for the right. If they have to outright lie in public to make their point they will do it so the uniformed will believe them, as someone else here mentioned.
Chip @ 99:
Yeah, and the scary thing is that Murdoch has apparently purchased DowJones for
$5BILLION, which owns the Wall Street Journal, so if we think the Journal is conservative
now, just wait until Murcoch gets his gruby, greedy paws on that newspaper and we will
see what "right wing conservatisim" is all about.
I believe that fact was also confirmed by Michael Haydn, the Bush appointed CIA director. That's some serious delusion.
On most issues (and certainly this one), conservatives can't win on the issues, so they just lie.
this is a great example of how these lying asshats employ the DARVO strategy. i think it was pioneered by newt and gopac, but i could be wrong. i should use the google to find out.
DARVO is Deny, Atttack, Reverse Victim Order. You can recognize it because it is all they do and why they just repeat the same talking points, in this case despite the obvious contradiction with the testimony. They deny everything: Plame's status, no underlying crime, the vp didn't send wilson; they attack everyone: plame, wilson, fitzgerald, walton, the trial jury, clinton; and then reverse the victim order, so that the perp is now the victim and libby's family has suffered enough, he's been a loyal public servant and this has been so hard on him. and there you go! that's all you ever get from them, and they will never acknowledge plame was covert because the first rule of DARVO is DENY!
It's just that Rethugs. are ignorant, illiterate, morons.
Limp-Dick Blimpaugh @ 104:
No. They are amoral, fascist bastards.
The people that follow them and enable them are ignorant, illiterate morons.
Liberal AND Proud @ 105:
Hey c'mon L&P, we all know how to read.
Sheesh, a few bad-tempered kiddies in the sandbox tonight. Think we can debate the issues without sinking to the level of sophomoric insults?
Somehow, the argument quickly devolved from whether or not anyone was rounded up and eliminated due to Plame being out to whether or not Plame was covert. It wouldn't surprise me that there's no evidence of the first - CIA agents who've lost their lives in the line of duty are memorialized with a black star, I believe, but not by name - as that's just the nature of covert operations. But Joe O.'s speculation is certainly logical.
Like Christine @ 91, I, too, would like to see numbers of how many people’s lives and work were destroyed because of Plame’s outing. If they exist, if they're reliable and not by conspiracy theory websites. But if this is just going to be a contest to see who can come up with the nastiest adjectives to describe Republicans, count me out. (And if memory serves me correctly, I do believe Joe O. is, or was formerly, a conservative...)
dennis @ 106:
I'm happy for ya. But "My Pet Goat" doesn't count.
nonny mouse @ 107:
Hi Kettle.
Dr Matt - Been down this road before with you. No thanks.
english teacher @ 103:
Didn't they do a cover version of Henrix's Are You Experienced?
Great, now english teacher will give me a d.
I read me a couple a Shakespeares too, L&P.
Nonny-
I just think in this case, with passions so great especially against this administration, that any verifiable repercussions toward any covert agents anywhere in the world would be exposed and reported on and surely used against these guys. No doubt we'd be reading about it on here. Joe O's speculation is logical, but it seems to me decorum would dictate you have some kind of hard evidence to back it up. I was just simply asking for something, thinking there might be some evidence available. If I came on here and made those contentions, people would ask me for links too. That is, afer all the prerequistie name-calling.
If Joe O. is indeed a former conservative, I hope you haven't outted him. Former conservatives draw more ire than current ones do here.
ysbaddaden @ 112:
I get it, a d for the one you left out in Hendrix's name.
Very clever, ysby. An A for that one.
dennis, joe stated that he is only speculating. hell, all anybody can do about the matter of other agents being harmed by the exposure is speculate, because it would all be classified. so you area asking him to link to classified material, which is kind of unfair. he said in his first post that he was speculating. larry johnson at his blog no quarter has also made the same speculations. he has also said that black stars have been added to the wall at langley since the security compromise. of course, it can't be verified, because its all classified.
dennis @ 114:
Aaaa, sit on it!
The right wing already know better than the generals, OF COURSE they know better than the CIA who is or isnt covert. All from their armchairs.... its amazing. A new class of ubermenchen.
bubba @ 117:
Damn, I never made it to German class.
english teacher @ 115:
First, english teacher, if you are one you have my utmost respect. And I could use your help, since as a conservative I'm illiterate. But Joe 's first post was at #24, and there is not even the hint of speculation in anything he said.
But I do see your point and I recognize the problem with classified information. I still think someone, an anonymous leaker or a former CIA employee, would get that damaging information out to at least the far left blogs.
bubba @ 117:
A new class of ubermenchen.
I never mentioned it.
My two favorite wing nut arguments is when they pull a quote from Plame's senate testimony where some republican douche bag asks her if anyone had told her specifically if the law applied to her and she says no. They ignore the fact that in the same testimony she says she was covert. As if the fact that no one ever discussed that one law with her means that it didn't apply to her??!!??
The other silly argument is the argument that since she was listed in Who's Who as Wilson's wife she couldn't be covert. Yes, she exists as a person, therefore everyone must know she's a CIA agent??
When Hester Prynne got her A, was it because she did an outstanding job making shadow puppets with Reverend Dimmesdale?
This is very simple. Next time you hear some repug jag-off repeating talking points about Agent Plame not being in the company, just ask this question:
If Agent Plame wasn't a covert agent for the CIA, then why did the CIA formally request the justice department investigate a crime?
This wasn't Chimpy, Dickhead, Gonzo or the repug congress that created the special prosecutor. It was the CIA demanding an investigation into a CRIME. Now why would the CIA, headed by a repug appointee, demand an investigation if Agent Plame didn't fit the definition of the law?
Simple, they wouldn't.
It wasn't that long ago that Valerie Plame testified before Waxman's Committee. In advance of her testimony, Waxman stated he got approval from the CIA to assert her covert status at the time of the leak. Then, during her testimony, she herself stated she worked on WMD in Iraq in 2003. She also affirmed her covert status, under oath.
I am absolutely confident that if she were not covert, the Republicans would have not hesitated to have her brought up on charges of perjury.
The only witness to attempt to rebut her covert status, failed to provide any proof, zero, zilch, nothing other than her hot air.
Here is an important point. Fitz was charged with investigating if there was a leak of a covert agent's identity and if the leaker knew her identity was covert. The case would never have been given over to Fitz if her covert status was not already established and stipulated. They would not have wasted the tax payers money.
The Republicans, at the time, in charge of everything, would have been sucessful in stopping it going to Fitz if she were not covert. Period. Fitz, only as a matter of formality, assured the court that, in fact, Plame was covert. After that assurance then came addressing the underlying question of whether a crime had been committed during the process of outing her to the press.
The law regarding the crime of outing a covert agent is written in such a manner that it is near impossible to prove. How to you prove what a person "knew in advance". This law needs to be changed. It bar is set too high.
These criminials in the White House, conspired to out Valerie Plame, imo, to both attack Joe Wilson, and to get Valerie out of the CIA WMD analysts office. They believed they were killing two birds with one stone.
I am shocked that impeachment proceedings have not occured regarding this matter. This would have been the crime of the century had it occured in the 1950s or 1960s. Where is the outrage of Americans?
Nancy Pelosi came into her leadership position and shockingly announced "Impeachment was off the table." Why did she do that? Did she fear an onslaught attack from the right? Did she fear a conflict of interest, as impeaching both Bush and Cheney would place her in the White House?
For that matter, why haven't more Democrats screamed for impeachment? Even now with the public strongly favoring this action, the Democrats are strangely silent. Do they fear effects on the 2008 election? Or maybe Bush Co. using their super duper top secret spying program has gotten the goods on a few legislators who now cannot speak out for fear of losing all. They certainly can't be fearing Bush's miniscule and dwending "base"?
This is what Nixon did, spied on his political enemies. I have no doubt Cheney and Bush use this tool in any number of circumstances as the need arises on those on their "Enemies List". We already know he uses his "tools" on various domestic non-violent groups, what is to prevent him from tapping all the legislators phones, ipods, etc.?
I am sure these Yale and Harvard grads could address all the MSM attacks that impeachment is a partisan pay back for Clinton. The people get it, why don't they?
Marple,
How do you expect Nancy Pelosi to bring charges of impeachment for this affair when Fitz did not even attempt to prove there was even a crime commited in the first place. You expect her to go in and perform magic and somehow extract information that obviously wasn't there? She'd almost have to be indicted Fitz for totally bungling this case first.
Here's an interesting article from a prominent Dem on the subject:
It's Only Fair To Commute Libby
by Ed Koch
My own belief is that when Libby answered the question by saying it was Russert who told him about Valerie Plame's CIA status, he was providing information that he believed to be true. Surely, he knew Russert would be asked if that occurred. If Libby's recollection failed, that would not be the basis for charging him with a crime. Only if he deliberately lied could he be accused of perjury.
Would anyone, particularly someone in high government office with an exemplary record of public service and admittedly a high achiever under these circumstances, lie, deliberately misstate the facts where his testimony would be refuted by a popular television personality certain to be asked? It defies common sense. If he were deliberately lying, he would have said, "I can't recall," or "I think it was Tim Russert," leaving the opportunity to admit error, and in neither case could he, I believe, have been indicted and convicted.
You might convince Pelosi to start impeachment proceedings, longshot at best, but this case isn't the one to do it. No way, no how. Only embarrassment would ensue for the Democratic Party, a mistake they can't afford to make at this point. Better to let if fester and act frustrated that they couldn't do much about it.
Login or Register to post comments.