DoD Repeatedly Passed On Pleas For MRAPs From Military Commanders On The Ground
By Logan Murphy Monday Jul 16, 2007 3:11pm
Via Army Times:
Pfc. Aaron Kincaid, 25, had been joking with buddies just before their armored Humvee rolled over the bomb. His wife, Rachel, later learned that the blast blew Kincaid, a father of two from outside Atlanta, through the Humvee’s metal roof.
Army investigators who reviewed the Sept. 23 attack in Iraq wrote in their report that only providence could have saved Kincaid from dying that day: “There was no way short of not going on that route at that time [that] this tragedy could have been diverted.”
A USA Today investigation of the Pentagon’s efforts to protect troops in Iraq suggests otherwise.
But military officials repeatedly balked at appeals — from commanders on the battlefield and from the Pentagon’s own staff — to provide the life-saving Mine Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle, or MRAP, for patrols and combat missions, USA Today found. Read more...
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I cannot believe this to be true.
Everybody knows this government supports its troops 100%, and provides them with each and every little thing they need.
Man, I actually typed that all with a straight face, though you couldn't see it. Or could you?
War war war war.
Frist? Shut up and support the troops!
That's supporting the troops for ya!
is it impeachment:30 yet?
Those fancy armored vehicles are expensive. Mighta had to roll back those sweeet tax cuts. I think being able to choose the optional power reclining rear seats for the new Bentley is well worth having some 25-year-old kid's intestines splattered all over the desert, don't you?
This is so pitiful. It's one thing when the forces in your command keep getting clobbered by means you are unaware of.
But when you know exactly what's doing it and what you could do to prevent it and you have the resources at your disposal to render this successful tactic virtually useless... and you just carry on doing nothing about it? That demonstrates incompetence and command incapability of biblical proportions.
Does the administration want to win their war or not?
Biden has been all over this for a long time. Just before Imus was canned he used to call in to Imus' show and plead with Imus to get the story of the MRAPs out there.
Does the same company that makes the humvees make the MRAP? I'm guessing not. I'm also guessing that the company that makes the humvees is lobbying against the MRAPs. I also bet there is a sweet contract involved.
Remember not long ago we heard about a much better body armor. I believe it was called Dragon Skin. Even though tests showed it worked much better, the army refused.
Before that we heard about some device that would protect tanks from something, it's been so long ago, I can't remember all the details. But I do remember the company that made this particular thing was up and ready to go. The military rep said that the company they were under contract with was also working on a similar product and even though it wouldn't be ready to go for years or months, they were sticking by them. That too was a sweet contract deal being protected.
Don Rumsfeld, Sec. Defense, 8 Dec 2004:
USA TODAY, 31 May 2007:
When will these damn liberals learn about war?
You don’t start an unnecessary war when your military has all the protection that a decent leader should wish his troops to have, you start an unnecessary war whenever the hell The Decider decides to.
barbara boosh won't even bother her beautiful mind with this.
Too bad it's trapped in a body that looks like she's been in the tub for the last 30 years.
"JACKSONVILLE, Fla., July 16 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Armor Holdings , a leading manufacturer and distributor of military vehicles, vehicle armor systems and life safety and survivability systems serving military, law enforcement, homeland security and commercial markets, announced today the receipt of a new prime contract award by the U.S. Navy for $518.5 million to provide Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles. Work will be performed in 2007 and early 2008 by the Armor Holdings Aerospace and Defense Group at its facilities located in Fairfield, Ohio and Sealy, Texas."
found here
CBC News, 29 October 2003:
nowadays in my adulthood phase suffering extreme bouts of disillusion, i imagine DoD officials very much as unhinged as those portrayed in Spies Like Us...
see http://photo2text.com/
"delays cost the lives of an estimated “621 to 742 Americans” : the neo-con want to initiate a full-blown war with Iraq to punish them because they "claim" that they supplied sophisticated IEDs that killed "at least" 170 US soldiers.
What do they propose to punish those responsible of these delays ?
By the way, more than 3500 US soldiers wouldn't have died if the US did not invaded Iraq.
What are the lives of a few servicemen and women, when we can grow the economy by 3% with tax cuts for the rich? Where is your patriotism?
Heavy on the snark.
From what I can find, seems Armor Holdings also makes the humvees. Guess my guess was wrong.
L.A. Confidential @ 2:
"War, war, war; this war talk's spoiling all the fun at every party this spring! I get so bored I could scream. If you say ‘war’ just once more, I’ll go in the house and shut the door. I’ve never gotten so tired of any one word in my life as ‘war’.”
Fuck MRAPa and lip service to the Military Industrial Complex.
DOD: Just pay your taxes, buy your junk food, put your babies on Prozac and shut the heck up, okay?
“As you know, you have to go to war with the Armor you have, not the Armor you want,"
...at least until the war profiteers get rid of all their obsolete inventory, cause otherwise you have to sell it for scrap and there ain’t no profit in that.
Talk about a double edged sword. I have a lot of sympathy for the people that have to ride around in these things in Bush's psycho war. On the other hand I think this is a great reason to get them out of there instead of paying another of Bush's base billions to make protected vehicles. I see his buddies grinning with greed in their padded chairs after reading this kind of news story.
Fuck that was a nice Hummer
My brother-in-law's wife's son (from a previous marriage) has been in Iraq for over a year now. My brother-in-law told me about their lack of equipment. They send out care packages on a monthly basis just to give him and his unit a fighting chance. One month it was a dozen laser sights (not cheap) because the old ones were inoperable. Another month it was flashlights. They weren't provided flashlights but were expected to do the house to house searches at night! This month it was work gloves. He and his unit have to work on their vehicles and other equipment. The problem is the gear burns their skin as the temperature is so stifling. He also told me how their unit strips anything that can be used as armor so they can better protect themselves. On top of the thousands of dollars spent in protecting their son and his unit, the shipping costs are in the hundreds of dollars per shipment. To top it off he wants to remain anonymous because he is afraid that the backlash would ruin his career. Bush and his supporters complain daily about the news that isn't reported, in this case I am sure they are grateful.
Y'know what posts such as these do?
They keep away trolls.
JK @ 22:
Yeah, I enjoyed it, too.
Ok, a little blast from the past... if, according to Rummy, you "go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want" and our troops are being demoralized every day... and if President seems to want to push us headlong into yet another war -- this time with IRAn ( that we seem to be ill equipt to fight) ... then... what kind of army will we be fighting Iran with... a country that has an army and an airforce and a navy and has not been hobbled by years of sanctions against their country?
USA Today: One reason officials put off buying MRAPs in significant quantities is because they never expected the war to last this long. President Bush set the tone on May 1, 2003, six weeks after the U.S. invasion, when he declared onboard the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln that “major combat operations in Iraq have ended.”
You know, when Germany invaded the Soviet Union in WWII, the Nazi government refused to provide winter clothing to their troops because it was defeatist to suggest that the war would last until Winter....
And before anyone complains...I am NOT comparing our troops to Nazis.
I think the reason they stalled on it is because the company that was building it was owned by a liberal, I think.
"Party before the People"
"Party before the country"
"We can never be wrong,"
"Since we sing Gods song" - Republican Motto
Rob M @ 23:
Great. Now we are having bake sales for our troops. Shameful. But at least hedge fund managers made billions of $$$ last year.
"But military officials repeatedly balked at appeals — from commanders on the battlefield and from the Pentagon’s own staff —"
That's because they support our troops-to the fullest
Rob M @ 23:
I know what you mean. I worked in a broker house and one of my co-workers sons was over there. We had 50 people to contribute. We raided Walmart and many other stores regularly for things to send. One time we took every blanket the store had. Boxes of shavers and cream. Tooth paste and brushes. Cds and playing cards. On and on. We shipped the stuff in 2 ft square boxes. We must have sent a minimum of 200 boxes. His son was a popular guy.
Rusty Shackleford @ 4:
Don't think the administration's concerns were about the expense, just who the money was being paid to (see pop@6). Republicans since Carter have always claimed to be the party of fiscal responsibility in favour of lowering the deficit but always maximize US foreign debt by reducing taxes while ramping up military spending).
Bob Roberts @ 27:
You are absolutely correct... they never planned for anything after the inital overrun of the country.
Fuck MRAPs and lip service to the Military Industrial Complex.
The most advanced army in the world still bitching about not having a big enough technological advantage. Sorry, for the lack of sympathy.
If people really cared about the troops, why advocate body armor or humvees? Shouldn't they be demanding that the pentagon hook up drones with guns to these soldiers' XBOX back home so they can kill the "Terrusts" from the comfort of their couch?
In addition, I'm sure drones would create much more profit for the MIC than some measly MRAPs.
Seriously, all this whining about armor or humvees is just lip service for the MIC hiding behind the sacred cow of "The Troops."
The saddest thing, is that while I'm being sarcastic, the "boys in the back room" are taking me literally.
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/US_Air_Force_prepares_to_add_0715.html
pissed off patricia @ 6:
Yep... the Isrealis have a tank protector in use that protects tanks from Rocket Propelled Grenades (RPGs) 99% effective. But in America, we have a contract with Raytheon to produce the very same thing, but it won't be ready for 5-6 years... Criminal.Absolutely criminal.
Why is it that Lockheed Martin and Boeing spend hundreds of millions in general media advertising that reiterates republican sound bites like "the way forward"...?
General media advertising? Like any of us are going to pick up a jet fighter on our way to the post office.
This is Tax money via the DOD cushy contract. Forever war means forever profit.
And Private Kincaid bought a chunk of some fat CEO's golden parachute with his life.
Only in America.
miss_kitty @ 30:
Maybe a couple hundred of those attached to the bottom of each Humvee could deflect a blast. Everyone who has one on the back of their F-350’s and Range Rovers should peel them off and send them to the troops.
Remember to save those nylons also. Homeland America is truly sacrificing for the troops.
JK @ 22:
There is no such thing.
Hey everything is fair and balanced in the media now.
Democrats ready for marathon Iraq debate
AP - 24 minutes ago
Al-Qaida likely to attack US, intel says
AP - 39 minutes ago
I don't remember if I posted it on C&L in another thread, or if I yelled it out while ranting on a street corner, but how can anyone defend the idea that they didn't expect an insurgency or didn't expect the war to go on so long? Ok, so they didn't, but it should have crossed their minds. Every minute of every day is contingency planning; if Boudin is out of rolls, I'll have a salad; if traffic is bad I'll cut across the park at 19th and take Bush. The idea that invading a country and overthrowing a government, even in the best possible scenario, can be done on the cheap and accomplished in 6 months is ludicrous. The idea that they really thought that is what was going to happen, and didn't consider the alternatives is criminal. Unless they discover KC and the Sunshine Band living in a pool house at one of the presidential palaces, or unless the earth opens up and Satan emerges in Ray Bans and a purple Cadillac, there should be NO surprises. How many people work in the pentagon? How many of them are charged with planning? Every single one of them should be sent on a fact-finding mission to Iraq to help them better plan for what lies ahead. Then they should be fired.
Harumph. I hope Boudin isn't out of rolls.
Gort @ 37:
P.S. The Dow broke 14000 today. Remember, war sucks!
I would like to contribute to this young soldier. Please send an email to mkelly41@sbcglobal.net and tell me what I can do.
Thanks,
Martha
LibertyLover @ 29:
LibertyLover @ 29:
Whoa!!!!!Hey C&L!!!!!!!! Another Amazing report by Michael Ware just moments ago. He's talking about how the administration is ratcheting up the fear of Al Queda. And his opinion of why they are doing it.
Um don't forget that GM makes the Hummer and remember Andrew Card? Who he worked for before he worked for Bush... and that he was the go between for GM and the government. Sooooo how long has he been gone....and all of a sudden the military starts getting these new vehicles? Coincidence?
chimpy throws these fine soldiers into no win situations. he is purposely setting-up our troops to die for him. he doesn't care anything about the United States. the 25%ers should take a clue from WWII and note the parellels between hitler and chimpy. The US will never be forgiven.
Now this madman wants to start up with Iran? With the same old bs, no less, he used to fight Iraq...errr..."terror."
Get this nut before this nut gets us.
repugs are like the confederate flag and the kkk.
LibertyLover, that was the tank deal I was talking about. Thank you so much for the details that had slipped my mind. I owe you a cocktail. :)
A foot note to #33
His son was part of the US first wave. When he came home he stopped in the office. You cannot imagine the emotions of pride we felt when he thanked us in person. He also told us all of the hassle he had to go through to get his mail.
Nothing can protect a soldier from bad politics, bad political leaders, and bad strategy enacted by those leaders.
Impeach the stupid Monkey for his continuing to have our troops murdered and sacrificed and still doesn't give a flying shit.
pissed off patricia @ 48:
No worries. You're ususally the one with the facts, ma'am. :)
gempei @ 50:
Yours not to reason why, yours but to do or die.
Worst soldier’s maxim ever, especially when you have a chimp as commander in chief
Facts, what facts? We Americans just make up our own facts these days, don't we? :)
Strawberry, if you should return, please tell us what Ware had to say. I missed it and I sure would like to know his opinion.
Gort @ 53:
I wonder how far your troops would have to be pushed before the M-word comes into converstation. Hope it never comes to that.
Patricia...let's hope C&L gets this one up...Ware basically said the Bush administration is trying to scare the shite out of the American people with all the Al Qaida talk, in order to try to bolster the support for the surge. Oh yeah and he basically said Peter Pace and his latest assessment of the surge was full of it...
Something MOST people are missing is that the MRAP is NOT a good replacement for the uparmored M1114s. Honestly, they would be best served in non-offensive operations or support roles. This vehicle is a bad choice if you're raiding a target. It's too big, too bulky, too noisey, too cramped and too difficult to get out of quickly. It is not the end-all-be-all so many people keep swearing by.
Look I think we have to look at it positively.
Glass Half full / Glass Half Empty
Indochina:
Viet Nam – 2,200,000 killed but 85, 000,000 survived
That doesn’t include the Agent Orange figures
Cambodia -- political assassinations leading to Pol Pot
2,000,000 killed 6,000,000 survived
Laos carpet bombing of everything living
1,800,000 slaughtered 6,000,000 survived
ONLY 650,000 KILLED IN IRAQ
With 29 Million Population
The U.S. Still has a lot to do.
Thanks Strawberry. Sad, but I trust his opinion more than the voice of our government.
He's there in the middle of hell so I trust him to describe what hell is all about. I agree with him, this whole terror bs for the past week has only been for one reason, to try to scare everyone back into their mindset of mid 2002. I sure as hell hope it doesn't work. It's been 24/7 on tv today with Fran Townsend's face everywhere you look and every time she opens her mouth it's to say BOO!
Brando, I agree. The end-all-be-all is a red Ford pickup in your driveway, that you can see from your front porch, that you happen to be sitting on this very minute. I bet lots of soldiers would prefer that to an MRAP or an uparmored M1114. But an MRAP probably beats what they have. I'm starting to get the idea that with all of the scrap they are using as DIY armor, they look like Humungus' gang, tear-assing around the desert.
the negligence of the junta is revolting. If something doesm't affect their relatives they don't give a damn
I love ya C&L, but on this issue, you're playing both sides as I said earlier.
Last week you had a story "Report: DoD No Bid Contracts Has "Put Troops At Risk""
At the time of 2003 when the MRAP really needed to get into the hand of our troops ASAP, the only manufacturer in the US who was meeting the military requirements was Force Protection, Inc. Force Protection's Cougar and Buffalo should have been used as the design, and it should have been built by every military contractor available like General Dynamics, Navistar, BAE, Armor Holdings, etc.
But instead you write an article about a no bid contract being a bad thing, acting as if the no-bid contract itself was to blame, and then today you're wondering why they still don't have the MRAPs as needed.
It's hypocritical to say the least.
As I said in a post the other day, it's not that Force Protection isn't building them, it's that the Pentagon waited two years beyond the time they knew they were facing a new threat to begin ordering them. The MRAP in the photo is a Force Protection Cougar, built by Force Protection, Armor Holdings, and Force Dynamics, the partnership with General Dynamics.
P.O.P. That Frannie Townsend creature is just too slow and too white to try and spin the White House party line. It's like watching the token white chick on the old IN LIVING COLOR show. Painful at best. And what the hell is up with her outfit, does the Nixon Estate know that Franny raided Pat Nixon's grave for that skirt suit?
The Pentagon will say, correctly, that the weight of these things makes shipping and deploying them more difficult, but that doesn't change the fact that the war/reconstruction planning was criminally neglient. The Bushies didn't just not have a plan B for the aftermath, they didn't have a plan A, and actively attacked people in their own administration that tried to supply them with one! Yet they still unfailingly blame others. I knew a guy who was killed by an IED in Baghdad, and I hate having to wonder if an MRAP would have saved him.
President PNACcio @ 62:
I agree, and in fact, the orders still haven't fully come in. However, the previous "outrage" from C&L was that the orders were no-bid contracts going to Armor Holdings and Force Protection only.
Also, the Cougar is bulit by Force Protection, Inc. Period. Armor Holdings (now owned by BAE) and General Dynamics are the subcontractors. Force Dynamics is a 50/50 partnership just to increase capacity. Like I said from the start, a real President would have gotten all the CEOs of ALL the military manufacturers together, told them we're at war and we need the Cougar and Buffalo ASAP and get them all on the same page cranking these things out 24/7. That's the crime here. The lack of leadership and faults of the DoD and the White House are criminal here, not the no-bid contracts to Force Protection.
Yep, When Biden knew the withdraw wasn't going to work, he put in for these. Been talking about them for a long time and often. But apparently he plagarized something in a speech, so we should simply snark him and move on.
Mike M. @ 66:
Mike, you hit something on the head here. Its the defense contractors both in the US and Israel who are placing fast and loose with the troops. . . .with DoD and WH acquiescence. Israel got a multi-billion dollar contract (thot it was $6 billion) to produce vehicles that the military calls shit-cans, when the Wer'Wolf made in Namibia is an MRAP that's proven itself since the 70s. [This was the subject of a Lisa Meyers NBC/MSNBC expose in the past six months.] The USA Today article cited in Army Times mentions this as well. Always gotta look at that money trail.
I served in the USAF in the early 1970s. I read the USA Today article on July 2nd. I was outraged beyond anything I've previously experienced. I still am. Everytime I think about Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld's Pentagon blowing off this urgent request for MRAPs in early 2005 from our marines fighting and dying in Anbar Province in Iraq, !!sitting on this request for 2 1/2 years while our soldiers died!!, I want more and more for Bush, Cheney and anyone else responsible for this blatantly criminal negligence to be impeached, convicted and thrown into jail for a long, long time.
Our soldiers and their families deserve much, much better leadership than the crappy leadership of the criminal Bush administration, and their criminal enablers both in the Republican and Democratic (Lieberman, for instance) Parties.
If a Bush-, Cheney-, or Rumsfeld-type had pulled stunts like these during WWII, they'd either have been executed as traitors or would have been locked up in Leavenworth for a long, long time.
We all know by now that taxpayer money that should be going to our soldiers has been diverted by the Bush administration into billion-dollar "gifts" for their crony pals at these Republican campaign-contributor-owned private companies, who've received lucrative no-bid contracts, who charge 10 times what the cost would be to field and equip our own soldiers. Profit. Profit. Profit. With the only "shareholders" in this corrupt and un-American profit-making scheme being all the Republican cronies raking in the bucks, and clamoring for permanent tax breaks and tax cuts...during a time of war!!!
Thus, the cost of this Republican skimming scam costs far more money for U.S. taxpayers, but also has cost the lives of many of our own soldiers serving under the worst Commander-in-Thief in American history. In any other period of our nation's history, the Bush administration would have been brought up on racketeering charges and everyone involved would be behind bars.
Everyone knows that common soldiers would benefit from better equipment. The proper question to ask when explaining why they don't have it is: Who benefits from them not having it?
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