Vendor Arrested for "Impeach Him" Buttons
KEYEtv.com (CBS): (h/t JazzTrombone)
A 74-year-old retired mathematician who sells anti-Bush buttons at a Maryland farmers' market has become a symbol of free speech to some people. Others say Alan McConnell is a nuisance.
McConnell was at the market in Kensington as usual yesterday, selling buttons that say "Impeach Him" He has sold the $1 buttons for months; he told The Washington Post he uses the money earned to pay for "Impeach Them Both" yard signs.
Town officials had previously warned McConnell about peddling his political wares at the market (he is accused of being "aggressive" in his pitch), and had cited him for selling merchandise without a proper permit.
McConnell was also warned that he would be arrested if he returned to the market, even though it is public property.
McConnell showed up this weekend, when police arrested him and forcibly carried him to a squad car. A crowd of about 40 McConnell supporters booed the arrest, chanting "Free speech!"
McConnell was charged with trespassing; he faces 90 days in jail and a $500 fine
Officials said kicking him out has nothing to do with politics but with fears that the atmosphere fostered by McConnell and his supporters would create a safety hazard. (Mayor Peter Fosselman even cancelled last Saturday's market.)
It's getting harder and harder to recognize this country some days...
Farced!!! This is weak.
A "safety hazard"??
we need to impeach them
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hr8k8WHTzN0
They arrest the man for practicing free speech which is PROTECTED under the Constitution of this country, but they won't arrest the top attorney of this nation who sits in front of Congress under oath and lies to them and obstructs their investigations?
I really have entered the Twilight Zone..
Give the mayor a medal.
Through his idiocy,
Mconnells message has spread further than a thousand buttons.
Increment by increment.
I'm sympathic, yet if he had no legal permit to sell his merchandise and had in fact been
told that such a permit was required, then I have to agree with actions taken; tho I am
in hopes that some atty/lawyer will represent him and he does not face either a fine nor
a jail term...because GITMO is no place for a person his age.
I want these for sale at my local DC area Farmer's Market.
I'll take a dozen!
I suppose I'll have to sell 'em myself....
Every day, I become LESS PROUD of the country I LOVE!!
Are we allowed to make comparisons to 1930s Germany
now?
How much longer are the American people going to allow a small, radical extremist minority to push the vast majority of us around. This is OUR country, if the fringe folk that compose the republic party don't like it, they can goto hell.
This isn't a free speech case, it's a trespassing case. He applied to sell his wares at the market, whoever is in charge of the market denied his application and now he's breaking the rules of the farmer's market. Perhaps those in charge don't want to politicize the farmer's market experience in either direction.
I'm all for free speech and a big C&L fan, but it seems in this case, most of you are making a free speech issue where there probably isn't one.
Would any of you have a problem if I agreessively tried to see you and your children some Pro-NAMBLA buttons at the farmer's market?
This isn’t a free speech case, it’s a trespassing case.
Bull, he was on public property that he is part owner of.
The details of the case clearly indicate that he was defying previous requests to not engage in a particular activity and was accused of being aggressive.
But I wouldn't be surprised if his particular message didn't have something to do with the way he was treated.
It's going to get worse as Bush is backed into a corner and you know damn well Bush is notorious for reaching far beyond the letter of the law.
Doesn't seem to long off now till peoples anger overcomes their fears and the sh*t really hits the fan.
So, Dan, you never answered my question: Would you mind if I agressively sold you and your children Pro-NAMBLA buttons? Look it up if you need to... Cause hey, I'm part owner of all public property and that apparently gives me the right to conduct business there.
Freedom is as Freedom does.
"accused of being aggressive"
Translation: some wing nut was asked politely if he wanted to buy one and then the wing nut went off on the old man and when the old man dared to stand up for himself the wing nut called the cops.
It sounds like he had already been selling his buttons at the market, but this time they had denied him his permit..?
"McConnell was at the market in Kensington as usual yesterday, selling buttons that say “Impeach Him” He has sold the $1 buttons for months;"
Did I read that wrong? It really sounds like it wasn't his first time selling at this market. If that is the case, is there a problem with them suddenly denying him the right to sell there? I realize whoever is in charge of the market probably has the say-so. Just curious about why they would change direction if he had been selling before then. Just too controversial and the got complaints??
You are right that if it is a privately owned and operated market where applications and permits are required, he should have gotten the permit first. What if he had the permit and they rescinded it though?
Chadimu @ 12:
I read the article and did not see that the gentlemen applied for permission nor that his
application was denied. As I said in #7 above, it seems that he failed to seek the
permit required and that is the reason he was arrested, tho apparently told beforehand
that a permit was necessary. Am I missing something?
I wonder if he has a website. I would buy his signs and buttons from him.
I want a couple BIG signs for my front window that says "Support America - Impeach Them BOTH!" along with "Support Our Soldiers - Bring Them HOME!"
dan @ 18:
Or the Goose-Stepping Geriatric Gestapo Neighborhood Watch Association.
The police had a perfect right to arrest an anti-free-market kook trying to disrupt a farmers market.
Anonymal @ 2:
Were they "stick pins"?
Someone could possibly get stabbed with one.
Probably weapons there.
How much you wanna bet had he been arrested for selling "Support Bush" buttons Fox "News" would have around the clock coverage of the situation.
Before he was arrested did they ask him "vor his papars pleeze?"
I may have misspoke on whether he applied for a permit. If one is required to have a permit to sell something in a public space and/or a farmer's market and he never had one perhaps they just let his selling slip by up until the point someone complained. If that's the case, wingnut complainer or not, he doesn't have much ground to stand on for his rights to sell something, anything, regardless if it has a political slogan or not.
Remember a few years back when Bush Co was doing money drops over Afghanistan?
C&L would do a great service by supplying this gentleman's address, so that we can send him a dollar and a self-address stamped envelope for a button.
Remember a few years back when Bush Co was doing money drops over Afghanistan?
Remember a few years back, before Bush, when Americans had money?
The relevent decision is Pruneyard involving private property open to the public for commercial purposes.
Even though he was selling the buttons, it's still political "speech."
The Constitution? What's that ask's King George? People should be flipping out over this, but no, just let it go unnoticed like the little frog placed in cool water in a pot on a stove. Then turn the gas jets to high and watch him just doze off as the water continues to heat up until he's cooked.
Wake up Bloggasphere and contact your elected officials!
Bush executive order: Criminalizing the antiwar movement
By Prof. Michel Chossudovsky
Global Research
http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_2219.shtml
I ran into McConnell at the ACLU's Freedom & Justice day last month in DC. He was persistent, but hardly aggressive. He also was not exactly selling the buttons, but asking for a $1 donation for the button for the expressed purpose of funding the yard signs. I found the guy mildly annoying, though I did give him some money to put up yard signs. :)
The arrest seems fishy to me. People do this sort of thing all the time (poppies for the VFW, girl scout cookies, etc) and, the cops regularly look the other way, even when such activities are technically against ordinance.
Oh, and I love the C&L title of this one: Vendor Arrested for “Impeach Him” Buttons
and then later in the text it reads: McConnell was charged with trespassing; he faces 90 days in jail and a $500 fine
So, Nicole, was he arrested for the buttons or the trespassing?
Believe me, I'm quite left and anti Iraq war, but I'd like to keep this site from becoming the left version of Powerline.
Pruneyard Shopping Center v. Robins, 447 U.S. 74 (1980).
dan @ 30:
Sure do. Those days are gone. Every thing is credit-debt now. Besides that you'd have to be an idiot to invest serious money in any kind of enterprise in these conditions. Only crooks, liars, and white collar criminals make it in this type of economy.
pissed canuck @ 5:
Exactly. This is one of the best things the wingnuts could have done in getting out the message to support impeachment.
#34 McConnell showed up this weekend, when police arrested him and forcibly carried him to a squad car. A crowd of about 40 McConnell supporters booed the arrest, chanting “Free speech!”
The real sad part is even if you have a novel yet noble business product that takes off then you have to become a crook, liar, or white collar criminal to keep it going in most cases once you get into the "big dough".
Chadimu @ 34:
I sold IMPEACH CLINTON pins and bumper stickers at NASCAR races in teh 1990's and made a fortune. I had a few run ins with police, but usually they just watned to know where they could get one after tehy were out of uniform.
This poor loon is too stupid to find a place to sell them to make money AND stay safe....it is also his message that is dangerous.
Clinton had to be Impeached, Bush should be made President for life , or until the War On Terror is over.
Now, back to the coming waqr with Iran
#38 So what? He was arrested for trespassing, regardless of what people are chanting. Mobs can be wrong too.
btw I fully support this guy setting up a website and using this episode to highlight the cause. He could make a ton of cash and buy far far more lawn signs and even billboards by using this fiasco to his advantage.
"It’s getting harder and harder to recognize this country some days…"
it's the same country it's always been nicole. tell me a period of time when people weren't arrested for having a controversial political opinion.
Doggiebobo @ 7:
That's the fuzzy part of the whole article. One point it said he needed permission to sell items at the market, and another point it said the market was public property. If it was a privately owned market, I could see why they would call the cops on him. If it was public property, then this couldn't be "trespassing", unless there is a local ordinance stating that you need a vendor's license to sell stuff.
ME ALSO, BUT UNLESS AND UNTIL WE ALL HAVE THE ENTIRE STORY, AND NOT BITS AND PIECES, SEEMS THAT ON THE SURFACE, HE VIOLATED A LAW….AND THE ARREST MAY HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATE….
Please, a 74 year old man arrested while selling buttons. If he had been selling crack maybe, but buttons? How much you wanna bet when the local football team in this town or the VFW has a fund raiser and takes money at traffic lights with out a permet that the cops look the other way?
Ah, just another incremental yet material step in our evolution into a police state.
This man should ask for a pardon from Bush, after all his "crime" sure doesn't fit the $500 fine. Hell, Libby lied to protect Cheney after Cheney committed treason and got a pardon because his sentence was to severe for the crime (in Bush's opinion)
Typically with a farmer's market on public property there are ordinances in place stating when and what you can sell. That way, it remains a farmer's market and not a flea market that sells completely random crap. Individual permits are usually required and part of the process involves detailing exactly what you will sell. If it were a complete free for all, it wouldn't be a farmer's market and in this case it sounds like it would turn into a political rally.
nabalzbffr @ 23:
he look, it's a 20%er. im sure the parties that complained are much like our visitor here. im guessing, but if he were selling girl scout cookies without a permit there would be no arrest. at most escorted off the premises.
dan @ 45:
Mixing apples and oranges. And your opening sentence is not, at least according to the
article, correct.....Arrested for tresspassing on property without a permit to sell.
Atrain @ 46:
Thats right Bush Sr. in early 2001 said "no no no we're not going back to that" when asked if they we're going to continue with a Clinton style economic course-domestic policy.
Chadimu @ 12:
And what if he GAVE them away???
I'm waiting for them to arrest a vending machine.
And your opening sentence is not, at least according to the
article, correct…
Please, a 74 year old man arrested while selling buttons.
So the man wasn't selling buttons when he was arrested?
#52 What IF man.... we could play that game all night...
Chadimu @ 34:
Considering the horseshit masquerading as legal theory you've been posting, my answer to your last two statements are: I don't, and it isn't.
The buttons are being attacked because they are political speech in a public place, and because a tiny corner of the law exists on which to hang the naked harassment of this man. Period.
Don't kid yourself the arrests will pick up and for even flimsier reasons then this.
"Your either with us, or your against us"
I miss America.
Chadimu,
Don't you get that because this occurred on public property, First Amendment rights are directly implicated; that permit requirements (or denials) which infringe on First Amendment rights are themselves unconstitutional?
Chadimu @ 55:
let's not jump to conclusions without all the facts. it could be the guy was properly bounced.
ORANGE - IMPEACH - bush cheney & Buttons
Ready to go - 0r - Make your own - and/or use/copy/ image FREE at
http://www.RogerART.com
Go Get Em, Pass Em Out, Sell Em 2 Get More 2 help Jail Em Both...
Let's Make This Impeach & Jail - Out-Law - Gangster Crap -Overwith ...
DO IT - NOW
Thank, U, & Later, RogerART.com
TIME"S UP...
.
58
dan Says:
I miss America.
what america do you miss? what period?
Doggiebobo @ 60:
Opps, my previous comment did not appear, so will try again.
Perhaps you and I should toss in the towel on this particular C&L thread, for it seems
rather evident that many posting here are not interested in the facts(at least as they
have thusfar been reported in the Article) of the case, which admittedly are NOT complete.
I will await "MORE" substantial information/evidence and then I and others will be in a better
positon to either "settled down" or continue to scream and yell..
All I am saying is that based on the article, he was selling (maybe asking for donations, who knows..) something without the proper permits. You have one guys selling his free speech buttons, then you have a hundred doing the same and then it's no longer a farmer's market. Wearing an impeach Bush shirt is one thing, hawking buttons is another.
From my perspective as someone who frequents these markets is that I want to buy fresh produce for the three hours they are permitted to do so, not have someone talk to be about impeaching Bush even though I would love to see him gone, preferably in jail for high crimes...
So what's the answer in this case? Let anyone with a message they want to sell to work the farmer's market? Or stick to the permit process? Could I put little stickers that say "impeach bush" all over the things I want to sell without a permit and then cry free speach?
Chadimu @ 27:
So in other words, you don't know. Ah.
And NAMBLA? Real nice. Bring in a foul organization like that to try and prove your point so that the person who responds to the affirmative looks like he supports child molesters, thereby leaving him no choice but to have to address that issue rather than stick with topic at hand. With respect, and I haven't read the definition in a while, but that feels like a "straw man argument" to me.
Does anyone know any civil liberty lawyers out there that might be able to help this guy?
It is really sad when the police hassle the elderly, not to mention the fact that this just doesn't seem right.
Jack Jett
www.jackejett.com
Chadimu @ 65:
Good to see that your right to shop for a good zucchini should trump other's First amendment freedoms in the public square. We should trust our government officials blindly and implicitly, because they know what's best for all us frightened little rabbits. If we don't, we'll go down such a slippery slope that we'll be swamped and suffocated by button sellers - so much so that we won't ever be able to buy that good zucchini.
Oh, and about that zucchini...
When its political speech in a public place, there should be VERY few limits. The problem is that the Bushistas there got upset and raised a stink. They have always been easily bruised.
Chadimu @ 65:
I don't think there's enough information to judge either way. From another article on the same story here it appears that the "permit" angle seems a little sketchy. More like there were "rules" that the market was for local growers. But one person selling crafts was grandfathered and allowed to continue in spite of the "rules".
Before answering anything I'd like to know what else is sold at that market.
#59 and #68: With all your knowledge of the facts surrounding this particular case
and being, I assume, an expert on the First Amendment, I suggest you make an effort
to contact this 74 year old gentlement and offer him your legal assistance...bono.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Thing Fish @ 70:
Thanks for the more indepth article.....
Chadimu @ 48:
As someone who has done political tabling at Farmers Markets, I can vouch for this.
Anybody selling things at their booth or table NEEDS to have a sellers permit from the market.
At the Market I tabled at, Non-profit organizations or individuals could set up a table and waive the booth fee, as long as they weren't selling anything.
If you sold anything, then you were considered a vendor and had to pay the vendor booth fee.
Some people tried to get around the booth fee by claiming not to sell anything but rather, "accept donations" in return for product or raffle tickets, which people seemed to ignore as long as it was within reason.
If the 74 year old man was selling the buttons to make a profit, then he should have gotten the vendor permit and paid the fee just like everyone else.
If his purpose was more political which it seems, he should have given the buttons away for FREE and "gladly accepted donations." He probably would have made more money for his other signs that way, and could have claimed to be non-profit.
Or if he was set on selling the buttons, he could have set up an area just outside the farmers market boundries.
Right now at our FM, there are Christian Evangelicals who make people uncomfortable by aggressively trying to pass out literature, but they don't get threatened with arrest.
If they were accepting $$$ for their wares, I could see how another vendor who paid the booth fee could get upset and ask the FM to have them removed.
mister mix @ 63:
Anahuak, before the Europeans arrived and changed it's name to "America."
Arrested for being a good American...nothing new under the Bush administration! Just another example of how Un-American the Republican party is and a great example of how they are ruining our country. And this asshole thinks that history will be kind to him. uhg!!!
I will not rest easy until AFTER our next President has been sworn in. Maybe, just maybe we can save what's left the Bill of Rights.
IMPEACH BUSH NOW !!!
REPEAL THE PATRIOT ACT !!!
#74...Thanks for the explanation as to FM's, at least in your neck of the woods.
It's really amazing how kids who group in the 60's, the days of freedom, flowers, and hippies have gotten into positions of authority and become such fascists today.
My parents, in Bouder, Co, where the flower children invaded every summer, were the ultimate libertarians and taught me respect for all views.
Obviously, not all parents were as open minded about free speech, civil liberties, and keeping your nose the hell out of other peoples affairs.
equilibrio @ 74:
To send Mayor Fosselman and the town council of Kensington a note conveying your dissatisfaction reach out to:
http://www.tok.org/government/send_message.php?to=mayor_council
nOVEMBERELECTION @ 41:
Mat Toenniessen
at first i thought your comments were in humor, but i checked out your "common sense" blog. you post little facts and most of your writings are rants and raves about how stupidly insane most non-Republicans are. just because most americans have come to the realization that the governing body of this country is having a tough time doing just that in an ethical and fair manner does not mean that they have been swept away by some derailed ideology dreamed up by liberals, or worse yet the Democratic party. most of the views from commentors on this site do note side with Democrats or Republicans. you say that Clinton was rightfully impeached, i agree with you, however you can not hold one governing body accountable for wrongful actions (like lying under oath) and ignore the wrongful actions of another (like illegal wiretapping, fumbled national disaster relief, obstruction of justice, lying to congress and the country for support of needless occupation on foreign soil, insider trading, shall i continue....)
common sense would tell me that if this person had been selling the merchandise mentioned, he would have been removed from the premises and maybe ticketed for selling without a permit. had it been illegal contraband, that would make sense for an arrest. so you tell me mat, where is the common sense in this issue?
nOVEMBERELECTION @ 41:
have you checked your shorts for maggots ?
Doggiebobo @ 78:
Just to add something to the facts: the mayor of Kensington is a Democrat and I believe the council members (revolving mayor terms) are as well, but I couldn't verify them all. If these are in fact the town officials who warned this guy to stop selling the buttons, I suppose they're somehow part of the Bush gestapo previously mentioned.
dan @ 58:
Me too dan. And I'm getting so old I may never see it again.
tyree @ 83:
ROFLMFAO !!!
Chadimu @ 12:
This is a 74 year old man we are talking about. This a a retired man who has seen a lot during his lifetime, and felt the need to do what he did, most likely in part because he had seen a lot. Right or wrong, he is a patriot who was expressing his views, and he simply picked the wrong venue to sell his badges. I hope that they are lenient on him.
I just put a HUGE "Impeach W" sticker on the back window of my car, and I dare the first snot-nosed Bush Boot-licker to give me any grief over it. That will be the day. I want America back!
I wonder how much publicity would the godger had gotten had he been arrested selling "Save the whale" buttons?
What Dan #25 says about Faux Noise applies equally to C&L.
From Saturday's Washinton Post
The 74 year-old's arrest had nothing to do with having or not having a commercial permit - that was only the excuse. His arrest was directly related to speech with which unnamed patrons and vendors disagreed. It also had nothing to do with any genuine harassment or I'm sure the Mayor could have come up with at leat one example of who he was harassing or how he was doing the harassing. Assertive pitch? C'mon.
fiver @ 90:
You go! Don't let the absensce of facts get in your way. Go with your gut! Let the truthiness shine.
contact info for the Town of Kensington:
http://www.tok.org/about/index.php
301-949-2424
tyree @ 83:
... that may be the best response I've ever read to a post like nOVEMBER's.
we have to live in a total police state while the Bush junta remains the most secretive administration in history
Chadimus @ 91:
Chadmiu,
Which facts are you waiting for? You had no problem at all with an "absence of facts" in giving your whole-hearted endorsement for the arrest of a 74 year-old man for selling buttons (@12, 16, 27, 34, 42 and 48).
Your adoption of Doggiebobo's "absence of fact" position (along with the rather clumsy Colbert reference) appears to only be the result of the embarrassing responses you've received to your own arguments.
Arguing that "the facts aren't all in" is a common response when the facts aren't going your way. Here, however, it's not a very strong argument given the town's stated reason for the arrest is quoted above.
Just wait till all the facts come in on global warming. And wait, and wait... in the meantime, side with Exxon.
fiver @ 95:
He was arrested for trespassing. Just about everything you stated is based on what?
How do you *know* it had nothing to do with a commerical permit? Really, how do you know this for sure? Live in Kensington?
How do you *know* it was just an excuse?
How do you *know* what the arrest was or was not directly related to?
I gave my opinion based on what I read and what I KNOW about farmer's markets as my next door neighbor sells his raw food products at these markets every day.
Don't accuse me of talking out of my ass. I state my opinion based on what I read while you blatantly create "facts" based on you own bias. Stop.
fiver @ 95:
And you are absolutely correct, the responses I've received to my arguments have been embarrassing and just sad.
It’s getting harder and harder to recognize this country some days…
Damn, one thing about that statement is that it hurts. Not a good sign.
Chadimus @96 and 97,
Why did you remove the WaPo excerpt from your blockquote of me? The answers to your "questions" were right there in the quote from the Mayor. I "know" these things because thats what the town said.
Do you really think removing the quote is going to fool anyone? Have a nice day. Amateur.
Just like Germany circa February 1933! What will Bush's Reichstag fire be, so he and Dick can seize power in the crisis under his latest Constitution shredding Executive Order??????????
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 80:
dottoreholliday @ 100:
who knows but he already wrote them out called NSPD 51 & HSPD 20 posted here back in may from the progressive. here is the link
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/05/21/bush-wants-full-control-of-gove...
if you note the page, Bush is praying for another attack. he could care less about senior citizens flexing their rights (or any citizens for that matter.)
I was looking at AIPAC website and I saw that israel had contracted with Maryland to help instruct them how to deal with "terrorist" threats and domestic policing tactics.
I guess Maryland taxpayers are getting their money's worth.
Here's the video of this arrest.
Citation starts at about the 5:30 mark, the cops arriving to arrest Mr. McConnell arrive at about the 9:30 mark and he starts getting stuffed in the back of the squad car at about the 15:30 mark.
~Nyc
Local town officials, some if not most apparently Democrats, stop a man from illegally selling a product without a required permit -- yes, in this country businesses must pay fees (sometimes many) and get permission to sell -- and many people here blame Bush and Cheney?!? Wow, some here have no understanding of the different layers of government.
Not only did the guy not have a permit, but according to the press reports, he was bugging people who were there to buy produce. From the Washington Post:
A crowd of about 40 McConnell supporters chanted "free speech" and booed the arrest. But others said their objections to McConnell's activities had nothing to do with granting him his political voice -- they simply think that he bothers customers by aggressively selling non-farmers-market products.
"They keep trying to make it about their political position, and it's not about that," said Kim Kaplan, who began selling plants at the market in June. "It's about the fact that he wants to sell his buttons and get in people's faces when he's doing it."
Free speech allows him his opinion, to express it, and to legally sell products that contain his opinion. It does NOT allow him to break the law.
Chadimu @ 12:
You'd might have started an interesting discussion on speech vs property rights if you left that tripe analogy out. In trying to make your point through emotion, you end up comparing those wanting to impeach Bush to pederasts. For that alone I say, "fuck you buddy."
And it might have been interesting if it applied to this case. Which I don't think it does; because McConnell seems to have his own agenda.
There's this less than flattering view http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/20/AR200707... from a prior post.
And an earlier WaPo article (which is an interesting counterpoint that later WaPo link) stating Mayor Fosselman canceled the market because he was concerned that McConnell's "potentially aggressive" supporters might endanger the safety of customers. -- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/21/AR200707...
Now that sounds like a pretty weak concern to me. But McConnell does sound like he's doing this for attention: Activist wants to get arrested -- http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:5YojwV4mNP4J:mc.thesentinel.com/pdfE...
After reading through these links I think it's more about America's low tolerance for non-conformists rather than about free speech rights. Especially when they hold "deviant" (like how some art in Germany was once classified) views.
L.A. Confidential @ 15:
Count on it.
Correction to my 106 post. The more PRO Wapo article came after the CON article.
Kensington Tells Retiree to Button Up or Pay Up on Saturday, July 21, 2007; Page B01 (Guessing that's business page 1)
Activist Arrested In Dispute Over Hot-Button Sales At Public Market on Sunday, July 22, 2007; Page C04 (uhm community? page 4).
Either way. What a difference a day and (perhaps more so) as news section make!
David @ 10:
Yes... welcome to the United $tate$ of Nazistan
Nyc Alberts @ 104:
Thanks for the video. I love this guy.
In my last protest I saw a police officer kick an old lady with his boots. Three woman trample by a Officer mounted on horses, and yet the newspaper reported no injuries. Age and sex is no issues or a problem of good conscious to hurt their own citizen when given a free reign for terror. This is a city manager/mayor issue and the person that encourage this behavior. The Police knew well in advance of the situation and the warning forth coming. I would encourage to bombard plea to the city of Kessington, Md in regard to their decision to arrest an old man for free speech.
http://www.tok.org/about/index.php
301-949-2424
what ever happen to free speech??? Impeach them both
paranoia @ 111:
"to whom it may concern,
if this person had been selling the merchandise mentioned, he should have been removed from the premises and maybe ticketed for selling without a permit. had it been illegal contraband, that would make sense for an arrest. so you tell me, where is the common sense in this issue? if you call yourself an american you should truly make an effort to be one. this is an extreme abuse of power and because of the merchandise at hand, a slap on the wrist for freedom of speech. according to the article he used the profits to make signs to post up, that does not sound like pocket profits but donating to a cause. it may not be your cause but here in america we have this little thing called freedom of speech. this federal administration has not fully driven it from our hands yet, and i am not about to let any local governments take any additional constitutional rights away from anyone who calls america their home. do the right thing and let him go, repeal the charges, and fine him if you have to but do not aid in the destruction of our civil liberties.
good day,"
already sent them my two cents please do the same
http://www.tok.org/government/send_message.php?to=mayor_council
Well....
Now I want to see the permit for every single person selling stuff at the farmers market.
Does anybody talking about "permits" have any clue about farmers market traditions? These people sell vegetables and crafts out of the trunks of their cars. It's like going up to a kid with a lemonade stand and asking for a permit.
dan @ 18:
Jesus, Mary and Joseph!! How "aggressive" could a 74 year old man be??? He was probably lucky that he could get himself to that farmer's market at all!!
I hope the mayor and the police of that city are really proud of themselves for arresting that poor old man. They made their community safe from one badass crinimal, yeah they did!!! I wonder how many real criminals got away while those keystone kops arrested that dangerous old man???
We need to really get crazy about this kind of crap. I bet it is OK for the support the troop keep them in hell gang. We need to raise hell when we see these folks promoting the destruction of our kids and make sure law enforcement is involved, but of course they would not want to see any law enforcement against Bush and the corporate criminals because it makes them look bad in the eye's of people they continue to attack for so called law violations instead.
.
The police were just following executive orders
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What, is the market too free for you assholes?
By "safety" do you mean as in violent crime? Exactly who are you "protecting"?
Paternalistic Fascist.
Free speech took a dirt nap when Bush stole the election.
I wonder if he has a website. I would buy his signs and buttons from him.
I want a couple BIG signs for my front window that says “Support America - Impeach Them BOTH!” along with “Support Our Soldiers - Bring Them HOME!”
__________________________________________
Lest's do it! Let's pitch in, buy it and distribute all nation wide! Let's start our movement!
My family has sold at such markets for decades. Do you really think the other vendors at the flea market all have permits? If you do, you're ignorant. Of the tens of thousands of vendors I've known, the thousands of markets I've sold at, the closest thing to a permit anyone I've known ever had was a tax number, and many sellers don't even have those.
In some places where people just set up to sell by themselves on the sidewalk without actually being in a designated flea market, you will need a permit. Thats about it.
Harder to recognize this country,
You got that right!
Chadimu @ 12:
Uh, thanks for comparing political activists to pedophiles.
That said, freedom of speech is freedom of speech. And you can't arrest somebody for "trespassing" when they are on public property.
They don't do it to the KKK.
They don't do it to the "God Hates Fags" guy.
This is an obvious case of suppression of freedom of speech.
Read into the subtext:
"Town officials...warned McConnell about peddling his political wares..."
"McConnell was also warned that he would be arrested...even though it is public property."
"Officials said...the atmosphere fostered by McConnell...would create a safety hazard."
How could you possibly make the case that a man protesting a president with the lowest approval rating in history (currently 25%) is going to create a "safety hazard"?
Maybe from people clammering to buy a button.
Chadimu @ 12:
You would then be advocating an illegal activity. Nice try with the false analogy though.
Doggiebobo @ 7:
I must assume you ARE joking , right?? It has been a long standing precedent that vending of items that are purey of the nature of political speech can not be classed as vending or sales, They are SPEECH and protected as such.
Chadimu @ 16:
I believe distribution of POLITICAL material is FREE SPEECH, regardless of location, There are precedents that agree, sale or market is incidental to the issue of free speech.
Where can I buy an "Impeach Them Both" yard sign?
Justice at last!
Gotta love the Spirit!
As a citizen of Kentucky, I'm happy finally to see a McConnell I can be proud of.
This is positively eerie. Like something out of a sci-fi movie.
oh for crying out loud, this kind of fits into the "don't shout FIRE in a crowded theatre" exception, no? The guy didn't have a permit. The guy was apparently "aggressively" hawking something that roughly a third of the crowd would have violently disagreed with. Come on,folks. This isn't a "free speech" issue. If you parade down mainstreet without a permit, you are going to be arrested, too, and rightly so.
Chadimu @ 12:
This isn’t a free speech case, it’s a trespassing case.
Would any of you have a problem if I agreessively tried to see you and your children some Pro-NAMBLA buttons at the farmer’s market?
Confirming what we already know.....Republicans...invented self hate....
It's not trespassing, it's public proberty. He's allowed to be there. IF he was creating a disturbance, that's another story or charge. Trespassing won't fly. IF a permit was required, and he didn't have one, a citation would be appropriate, not arrest. I think the mayor and the city have a huge wrongful arrest problem.
I recall a case we studied in a college politics course over 15 years ago in which Jehovah's Witnesses had set up recordings to play back in Roman Catholic neighborhoods telling them that they were practicing cannibalism because they believed the Communion elements became the Body and Blood of Christ. Naturally, young full-blooded Catholics took offense and made trouble, and the Jehovah's Witnesses were arrested to defuse the situation. Well guess what - ruled to be protected speech by the Supreme Court and the arrests were thrown out.
That said, in individual cases the Supreme Court has established standards for what areas are public and what are not, and this complicates the situation. But it doesn't automatically follow as steve davis says that it's not a free speech issue.
since when have rights been degraded into privileges?!? Freedom of speech is a right, not a privilege. Freedom of assembly is a right not a privilege. The right to practice free enterprise is a right, not a privilege. Rights are not subject to licensure, permit, authorization, conditions, limits or enforcement. those kinds of strictures are reserved only for privileges, such as driving. He was exercising his rights of free speech, free assembly and free enterprise in a public place used for free asembly and free enterprise.
Once a right is agreed upon to be a right, by virtue of the human condition, and is codified by a people into their Founding Constitution, that right becomes a human right. It is not subject to any further enabling authority, to stricture, permit, licensure or whatever by any institution, staute, court interpretation or whatever: It is a right, not a privilege.
How in the world did we ever end up with fenced in "free speech zones", when every square inch of the nation is a free speech zone? Where in the Constitution is the authority granted to any government entity, no matter on what level, the power to grant or deny permission to for the people to assemble wherevcer they please in whatever numbers they please? where in the Constitution is government given the authority to degrade the right of free enterprise in to a privilege through the issuance of permits and permissions? These are rights not previleges!
If this guy was running his business and paying taxes on his income, he can sell what he wants and say what he wants. If others don't like it it, tough shit. There's nothing that says they have to. If he was selling pro-Bush/Cheney material does anybody think he would have been charged with tresspass? No. For that matter, by viirtue of his citizenship and his paying of taxes, he is part owner of that public property. It is impossible for him to tresspass upon his own propertry.
He needs to sue the shit out of the city and prosecute for false arrest.
ACLU needs to address the issue of the degrading of rights into privileges.
myiq2xu @ 31:
If I'm not mistaken, Pruneyard involved the rights of the shopping center, not the political speaker (signature gatherers, I think), and the key issue was whether the California Constitution could provide the speakers with greater protection than the U.S. Constitution at the expense of the rights of the property owners (which it could). That case would be instructive but not really on point. That is, if I'm remembering it correctly, which is certainly not a given.
Well that's just skippy. That's in my damned back yard. Fuckers!
paul - THANK YOU for stating what is too unobvious (thanks to 'our' (sic) mainstream media): freespeech 'zones' are orwellian, and EVERY newspaper, EVERY media outlet, EVERY kongresskritter, EVERY leader of any stripe SHOULD have been screaming bloody murder when the constitutional travesty of freespeech 'zones' were first started...
as you say, EVERY SQUARE INCH of OUR country is a freespeech zone, and ANYONE who tries to take that away from us is ANTI-DEMOCRATIC, PERIOD... EVERY citizen EVERYWHERE has the RIGHT to peaceably assemble, PERIOD...
no, if gramps had been selling idiotic 'support our troops' magnetic ribbons (proudly made in china), or other pointless -yet supportive of mainstream bullshit- crap, there would NOT have been the stink and arrest as happened... savor the hypocrisy, sheeple...
art guerrilla
aka ann archy
eof
David @ 10:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
proving that axiom at any given moment on a blog someone somewhere will make a reference to 1930s Germany... so i'll do it...
when are we going to see the concentration camps? gas chamber wednesdays?? i mean where have we gone?
"a safety hazard"?!?!?!?!?
what kind of numbnuts would believe that kind of hogwash and dribble??
and the act there are pions afloat who would buy into that kind of hogwash
WTF
when we have politicians who read 1984 by Orwell like it is the Bible and practice their beliefs as venomously...
its like they took a look at "Mein Kampf" and said "behold!! literary gold!!"
this place is insane... as david bowie sings "i'm afraid of americans"...
and as rufus wainwright sings in "going to a town" ..'i'm so tired of you america'
Chadimu @ 16:
Any time civil rights come up you guys jump straight to NAMBLA. Let me guess Billo has taught you to hate the ACLU too. Cause you hate civil liberties for anyone who doesn't happen to be you.
In this new republican poisoned version of america you can get arrested for wearing the wrong t-shirt or having the wrong bumper sticker. That should be considered obscene to all Americans.
steve davis @ 131:
(b) If, after receiving a warning from an enforcement agency, a person continues to sell or offer to sell any goods in violation of this Chapter, the enforcing agency may seize the goods and take them to a designated County storage facility. When giving a warning under this Section, an enforcing agent may require the recipient of the warning to furnish adequate personal identification. When seizing any goods, the enforcing agent must inform the holder of the goods how, where, and when the goods can be claimed.
(c) The owner of any goods seized under this Section may claim them within 3 days if the goods are perishable, and within 15 days if the goods are not perishable, by:
(1) furnishing proof of ownership of the goods to the enforcing agency at the storage facility, and
(2) paying a storage fee set by regulation under method (3) in an amount sufficient to reimburse the cost to the County of handling, transporting, and storing the goods.
(d) Alternatively, the County must return the goods without payment of a storage fee if the owner, during the time period provided in subsection (c), furnishes proof of ownership of the goods and shows that:
(1) the goods were properly offered for sale at the site where they were seized; and
(2) when the goods were seized the owner held a valid license to sell the goods under this Chapter.
(e) However, the County may retain the goods if they will be needed as evidence in any hearing on an alleged violation of this Chapter involving the sale or attempted sale of the goods. In that case, the owner may reclaim the seized goods by paying the maximum fine which applies to the alleged violation and any storage fee due.
(f) Until goods seized under this Section are claimed by their owner, the County must take reasonable care to protect the goods and keep them in the same condition as they were when seized. However, the County is not responsible for spoilage of any perishable goods.
(g) If goods seized under this Section are not claimed under subsection (c) or returned under subsection (d), the goods have been abandoned and the County may:
(1) sell them to any government agency or private party through an informal process specified by regulation under method (2);
(2) donate the goods to any charitable organization; or
(3) destroy the goods in any lawful manner.
(h) The owner of any goods seized under this Section must not attempt to collect any payment for the goods from the person from whom the goods were seized unless the owner had, before the goods were seized, reported the goods as stolen to any law enforcement agency. (2000 L.M.C., ch. 18, § 1.)
I do not believe arresting the vendor is mentioned here. We need to be VERY clear about what is going on here. This man cannot be legally arrested for trespassing, he was on public property. So what if the mayor told him he could not come back, this is america, and there is no such precedent for keeping citizens off of PUBLIC PROPERTY. So the fact that the guy is carrying some of his merchandise changes that? I don't think so. There is very clearly a law in place to deal with what the guy did, it is detailed above this. Why does this law exist? Well I suppose when they wrote it , the county folk were probably dealing with a few unliscensed vendors at the time, you dig, but they realised that they could not arrest the for TRESPASSING DUHHHHHHHHHHHH, so, they got to work and wrote a piece of legislation, that has absolutely no mention of arrest anywhere in it. This is no longer a nation of law, not when cronies run rampant, lying here , commuting there, who cares??
Wouldn't it make more sense to leave McConnell and his supporters alone, and arrest those members of the trouble-making, anti-American, we're-against-free-speech crowd???
"When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis
but there is hope
"You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." - Abraham Lincoln
steve davis @ 131:
Not unless he was creating "a clear and present danger" with his expression.
nOVEMBERELECTION @ 41:
So If I understand what your saying it's not Ok to lie about a BJ but Ok to lie about WMD's and have our soldiers die over that lie? Am I understanding you correctly? I do have family members who have served and are currently serving.
For me lying about why we went to war and our soldiers dying is unforgivable.
JMO
Being a hazard is irrelevant even if true.
The WWI Free Speech cases from Abrams v New York to Gitlow v New York make it clear that the police's duty in such a case is to protect the PROTESTOR.
Linkin Park's Hand Held High
Diane @ 143:
Your forget before The Clear & Present Danger Test was The Bad Tendency Test. With our present Court we may be reverting.
Are we not men, we are Devo.
I meant that for 144.
steve davis @ 131:
No, it doesn't. He's endangering no one. Except the establishment.
If I were Mr. McConnell, I would be going through the entire market asking everyone for their permits. It looks like selective enforcement to me.
Yes, this 74-year-old retired mathematician could really be intimidating, too. Last I checked, using your voice to speak politically was a protected right. Regardless of the venue.
Violently? Then the violence would have been on them, not him. Where was this respect for the opinion of the minority in 2003 when liberal was a synonym for terrorist-loving, Saddam-enabling traitor? His right to speak is not constrained by the opinion of those who do not agree with him.
It is a free speech issue. Your entire argument is a pile of steaming bull. Not a single one of your premises withstands examination. Is that you, Rush?
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