Tillman Story Reveals Shortfalls in NBC's Journalism
By Nicole Belle Saturday Jul 28, 2007 7:57pmThe newest revelations about the circumstances surrounding Pat Tillman's death are horrifying enough to merit widespread media coverage. But rather than rehashing the details, I think it's instructive to watch two very different broadcasts, ironically, by two stations with the same parent company:
Here's Jim Miklaszweski on Friday's NBC Nightly News:
Now to be fair, that's an fair and accurate reporting of facts. However, what Miklaszewski fails to do is to connect the dots or provide any context. Compare it to this report (using the same footage and in fact, citing Miklaszewski's report) on MSNBC's Countdown with Keith Olbermann with Jon Soltz of VoteVets.org:
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Which reporting made you feel like you understood the situation better?
UPDATE: Apparently, both MSNBC & NBC operated from AP's report of Tillman berating a soldier in the last moments before his death, based on a second-hand account given by a chaplain who debriefed the unit after the incident. According to MSNBC yesterday, the soldier involved said it didn't quite happen that way. Maybe it's me, but don't you think that AP might have wanted to confirm the events with someone who was, say, there before running the story and painting Tillman as an angry and dismissive atheist fragged by his fellow troops?
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Wonderful C&L folk: for some weeks now, the VOLUME on WMP videos on your site (and your site only!) isn't there. I'm not able to get sufficient volume out of the clip to hear it. Honest, it only happens here. What's happened. Do I need some kind of C&L upgrade??
"It is the fault of our President." (John Soltz as per the video.)
It is indeed; is it not, John? It is indeed; is it not, America?
the ap? the asspress? confirm something before running it?
now, that's comedy!
Regarding the Pat Tillman murder and cover-up by the Bush-Cheney administration along with those right-wing radical conservatives who wrap themselves endlessly in God, the flag, and apple pie:
I am so tired of the sanctimonious bombast of right-wingers and all those pretentious right-wing pundits who worship at the altar of their radical conservative agenda that is destroying, literally, humanity and this nation. If I said once, I must say it again: do not ever give up the debate on "morality" to these right wing hypocrites who see killing as some kind of "act of God and mercy." War ensures death, but by no means does it ever equal peace. After World War II, known as the "Great War," the United States engaged in a fifty-year Cold War with the Soviet Union. The end of the Cold War has not ended, but, brought about even more wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and perhaps another one about to happen on Iran.
It, therefore, is an attack on God and Jesus to go along with the dictates of the so-called "Religious Right" in America. The actions of right-wingers are contrary and at odds with what Jesus Christ preached.
A clear-thinking and moral individual would reject any morality that the right-wingers push on others as it relates to God or anything to do with religion.
I am tired of those self-righteous phony-ass, "right-wing flag wavers for Christ" walking around destroying the very earth God created. God told man to protect the earth he created. Jesus Christ was very critical of the hypocrisy of the rulers of the day as well. There is nothing and I mean absolutely no morality that these phony right wing Christians have on anyone else. Their belief system and I am not being angry here, is more similar to Lucifer than it is to Jesus Christ. Do not concede the moral argument to the phony "Christians" on the right who wave a flag that has many bad spots on it and of which Jesus would never condone. God loves everyone and knows that man has taken the opportunity to divide the land he created and kill and break it up for the powerful to rule over the weak and use all methods, including killing and lying and stealing to maintain that power and rule.
hey! the blockquote screwed up my comment!
damn! and it was so pithy, too!
personally, i feel nbc and its reporters should be taken to task on their slovenly reporting. this would accomplish two tasks: it would ensure that reporters would not be so apt to accept without question, the company line. and secondly it would highlight what has been occurring with the media in our nation for the last eight years. rather than being the last bastion of hope, they turned into bush waterboys. for that they all should be made to pay, if only in highlighting their shortcomings.
Every day this week everyone you speak to bring this up.Don't let Mr. Tillman's memory fade.Remember George said bring it on so let's bring it on.
Test
This isn't the first time AP has done such an excellent job (/snark) at checking the facts.
Personally, I prefer Reuters. They're much more professional.
I'm a bit surprised Keith seems a bit behind in the Tillman news. Just this a.m. on the CNN website, the soldier (O'Neil) Till was with contradicted the chaplins story about Tillman calling him a snivelling fool and berating him. The other soldier also said, he had never spoke to the chaplin. This, Keith failed to mention but kind of focused on Tillmans anti-war behaviour instead. Uncharacteristically a bit of a slant/spin on the reporting.
The ONLY reason I pay any attention at all to what's on MSNBC is because they continue to broadcast Keith Olberman's program. Keith's common-sense demeanor, sense of humor, and professional curiosity is EXACTLY WHAT'S MISSING in the likes of light-weight losers, Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarborough.
the AP, UPI, and the other press agencies are the primary foriegn investigative office for americas corporate new structure. We have outsourced our information news gathering to whatever these entities want to offer as the special de jour.
The AP. UPI and the like may at one time been objective and diligent, however due to the Murdochization of journalism, they compete the best way they can..
Even Sports Illustrated is covering the story of his last moments regarding his "atheistic" statements.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/07/28/tillman.frendly...
How would that look for Bush if their favorite hero in the field to exploit were to say something like "Why are you praying? God can't help us now."' as he was dying.
MailHead @ 13:
I'm sorry, I did not state that correctly. He did not say that as he was dying. He said it before. Sorry.
It's almost like what is being said is: "if you try to investigate further, we'll tar Tillman with the "evil atheist" brush"
Pat Tillman's mom = hero.
kablooie @ 16:
Agreed
I really don't think this is a mistake. What I think is going on is that Main Stream News just goes for whatever "good story" can fit the facts at hand -- without investigation. If it supports the government/business -- all the better. I don't think there is this notion of "journalistic integrity" anymore -- just story telling. The only time they might check the facts is if a story might be offending to a special friend -- like the Bush adminstration. It doesn't mean that the story won't run -- but it will only make it if other outlets are running the stoy anyway.
Hence nothing on the General Wesley Butler story from the BBC showing in US markets.
If you cover the story of Pat Tillman -- then any reasonable check on the data would show that he was upset over the war, and was planning to come out against the Iraq war on TV, couple that with having all his personal effects burnt -- it makes the "accident" story seem a lot less plausible.
There is no doubt in my mind that this was nothing short of cold blooded murder; after which the parasitic Bush Administration tried to play it off as their own personal Iwo Jima, which turned out to be just as manufactured.
Nate @ 17:
Absolutely a hero, as was her son.
Yes, the propaganda ministry is currently involved in attacking those "hatter" sites so commonly creating a minor pain to the profit margins of defense contractors, you know those annoying 911 truther type sites. Anyway the diversion of computer time has taken away from the media credibility analysis progamming and the Pat Tillman affair has escaped our media suppression techniques. So sorry.
Ok. This may put me in the 'tinfoil hat' category but when I saw the latest news releases on this... the hair on the back of my neck stood at attention. Were the actual rounds recovered from the incident. Maybe a coincidence but when I was checked out on the M16 (years ago) it was a controlled spray and pray when not on the aggressive side of an ambush (selective fire, aim for the middle of the body mass). On the other hand we were taught to close on the target and place three shots in the optimum kill area in pistol training. It would be interesting to know if any 'advisors' or 'observers' were tagging along with the fire team that day. ... just throwing it out there and still digging... this whole thing is starting to smell very bad.
Our god is benevolent and has forgiven Pat for a rash statement (if it were true) in battle but,
The cowardly murderers and accessories after the fact will face a fate much worse, even after they leave this life!
May god have mercy on their souls; from Bush and Rumsfeld, all the way down to the trigger man...
Wraith D'Ethereal @ 22:
Not a tin hat theory that someone might have murdered Tillman, and got away with it under the guise of friendly fire. It could be that one of his fellow soldiers could not stand him, or was momentarily pissed off at him for something, and he killed Tillman. And then, perhaps because the rest of the team sincerely thought it was an accident, they might have kind of "covered it up" and made it look like another unit had accidentally fired on Tillman rather than his own team member. They might have covered it up not out of evil intent but out of concern for someone they thought was innocent.
On the other hand, I don't know enough about the weapons used to say it was not friendly fire, but hiding the info from congress doesn't help the admins case any. It just encourages the growth of speculation.
Articles like this from the AP
are trying to convince the sheep, at least one thing is going down-
AP Headline should say:
-Gas Prices All over the GodDamned Map-
http://www.salon.com/wire/ap/a…..FNS80.html
The AP prints-
Survey: Gas Prices Down 17 Cents
I guess no matter how much disinformation they spew, arBusto’s rating just seem to creep toward twenty; the gas dodge being the last gasp; I suppose-
Regional pricing “strategy” by PigOyl are no where to be found in the “splash” or the article-
Rampant bullshit reigns supreme- Case in point; those assholes who are trying to blame the chase perp for the ‘Copters collide-
Assholes personified- The folks to blame for the ‘Copters collide are the phucktards that believe live televising assholes chasing assholes in cars is newsworthy-
Oldy toady media Cokie and NotCokieMiklaszewski aren’t the half of the problem-
Maureen Holland @ 1:
I don't know what your problem with volume is but I would have to take a stab that you don't have your Windows system running correctly. Or maybe you have been compromised or otherwise invaded with malware. I have no problems with volume or anything else.
Have you paid attention to protecting your computer? All the anti-virus and anti anything software installed and up to date as of today and every day?
I really think you should insure all preventative steps have been taken before you blame a web site. It is not very likely the problem of a site that would like to be read.
Should anyone be surprised by this. This is the same Jim Miklaszewski who took corporate money to make partisan attacks on John Edwards:
NBC Correspondent Received $30K for Speech Attacking Sen. Edwards
http://mediamatters.org/items/200707180001
To be fair, K.O. has more than twice as much time to devote to the piece...
However, I agree his item gives far more context.
The soldier who said this... if he is the one who fragged Pat Tillman, then of course he would present this in a way which would remove him from suspicion.
People are taking his word without considering this.
The reason no one believes anything the administration says anymore is because there is now an established pattern of coverup in trying to hide something in every facet of endeavor. The facts and details become moot. Gonzalez's
"I can't remember" symbolizes all of this completely. One assumes the worst. That's because they all feel certain that their hand picked judges and courts will back them up when push comes to shove. And maybe -- indeed probably--they will. The Republic is over. Just wait till the elections are cancelled.
Miklaszweski is known among old-time professional DC and NYC journos to be an intel asset. It's known, but he's so protected, no one can say it out loud.
Miklaszweski would go on Imus and trot out neocon talking points. Finally, Imus stopped using him because he knew the deal, even after saying occasionally "C'mon Mick." Listen carefully to every report Miklaszweski makes on important issues and you can hear what he's doing.
Nicole wrote above: "However, what Miklaszewski fails to do is to connect the dots or provide any context." That's being charitable. What he does is the 'consecutive sentence trick'. Each sentence in and by itself is technically accurate. The juxtaposition is the lie.
Check it out yourself.
Maybe Miklaszewski has been blackmailed into submission as so many of them have.
Chris Joseph @ 29:
Four or five people who saved Jessica Lynch have died mysterious deaths or weird suicides. How long until we see the same with the Tillman witnesses? Especially when as one of them reported on C-SPAN they were ordered not to talk.
What I find hard to escape noticing is that the original quote painted Tillman as an angry, mocking Athiest being cruel to his fellow soldier while under fire. O'Neil's correction of the reported quote contains much the same concept ("Why are you praying? God can't help us now") but without the malice, anger or bitterness the original version of the quote ("stop sniveling*) Here's the thing: When Tillman's death was said to be caused by enemy insurgents, he was a great hero. When it was said to be the result of friendly fire, he was still a good man, but not quite as heroic. Now that he might have been the victim of a murder, he's a God- and Christian-hating Atheist who lacked even the most basic compassion for a fellow soldier beside him.
Cutting Tillman down a few notches at this point serves the administration well. Painting him as something of a cad - especially at his his last breath - makes it much easier for the republican right wing nutjobs to detach themselves from mourning a hero to feeling indifferent at the murder of guy who was leading such a "wrong" life and would never find his way to Heaven. Thus they're less likely to consider the government's cover-up as anything worth persuing.
I HATE to think along these lines, but sometimes they brain just has to go where the brain just has to go, you know?
The Olbermann piece from above was broadcast on Friday night, and O'Neil's claim that he had not spoken to the chaplin and that the quote was incorrect came out either last Saturday night or early Sunday - or at least that's the earliest time frame I've seen it in. Granted, it would have been better for them to contact O'Neil personally and ask for his comment on the quote, but if they were working from the AP article, the information in it had not yet been contradicted by O'Neill when Olbermann reported it.
hareli @ 33:
Hareli, I'm not familiar with the deaths of those who helped save Jessica Lynch - can you point me to an article or other reference so I can read up on it?
Thanks!
for those that don't recall, the news is something where accurate facts are reported, and the viewer was assumed to be able to figure out the details for themselves. punditry arose with the heightening of stupidity and desired ignorance.
much like a critic, it is a parasite that attaches itself to what it reviews. punditry does the same thing. Lettuce recognize it for what it is. were that the news wasn't a 12 minutes of a half hour a night on a channel no one wants to see an longer
I wish the Tillman family would go after the reporter at AP and Jim Miklaszweski for slander and libel.
okay at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theory, let's suppose that pat was murdered as all the known facts in the case are suspiciously pointing toward. the question then is why? why would a us soldier point a rifle or pistol at a fellow soldier and fire point blank. what hatred was generated to warrant such an act. the repubs are fond of the word embolden. why have the snake handlers now seen fit to crawl from beneath their rocks into the light of day and parade around as though they were a majority. why do they feel now that what they do passes as the norm. perhaps that soldier or group of soldiers who did the killing did it with the knowledge that with the lying and cheating of the current administration, what they did would have the tacit approval of the current admin. shoot a commie, pacifist, or protester and become a hero, and know that you will only be prosecuted if the government feels it's necessary as with abu greb to make you the sacrificial lamb. small price, so tillman dies.
the only catch, the only difference here is the american public will not buy it this time. not because of some grandiose philosophic awakenings or political epiphany. they aren't buying it this time because tillman was not only a political hero, he played in the NFL and that's bottom line in the trailer park.
i never saw him play or maybe i did, but when i heard he had forsaken his career in the nfl to join up, i was proud of him. as with many others i bought the drivel that the admin was spewing that this nation against whom we were warring was totally responsible for 911. i was still prouder when i heard that he was a war protester and a progressive thinker. now to hear he was killed deliberately saddens me greatly. i would like to see the union of the nfl take a stance on this and support the tilmans. what about it nfl????
sorrow to his family and all of the families of our dead soldiers.
The entire Tillman family are heros to keep pushing for the truth. It would have been so easy to accept the lies and Pat's award, in order to just move on as best they could. It's pretty disgusting to even consider he was killed for his views, or that might somehow explain something. I hope they have the strength to keep pushing. It sounds like they aren't in agreement with all the findings yet either.
Finding out if that's true about M16's would be interesting.
Otay @ 37:
Sorry, should have said libel (for AP) and slander (for Jim).
Bob Perdriau @ 26:
Thank you Bob.
I'm sorry you're having a problem, but 99.9% of our readers don't have this issue...I played the wmv's on my Mac laptop and they sounded fine. I will say that we're working on making improvements to all the vids in the next couple of weeks...
kriselda jarnsaxa @ 35:
kriselda, you need to learn how to use Google to find these things yourself. :-)
The four independent death reports:
http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2003/07/07/200307079664.htm
http://www.corpsstories.com/memoriam-Ung.htm
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/dmtapper.htm
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/news/local/100403b1_hotelhomicide
The real questions are ones that apply to everything the Bush administration has done:
Why are they so afraid of the truth?
What are they hiding?
no longer a proud american @ 38:
Didn't you see his mother on C-SPAN? He wrote her that "this war is immoral," he was disgusted with the military leadership, and when he got back to the USA he was going to campaign against it. He was going to be a poster boy for everything anti-Bush/Cheney.
John Amato @ 41:
I've encountered the same issue on occasion with my system... Firefox 1.5 on Linux. In my case it's an issue with the browser plugin not able to access the sound card. I work around it by downloading the file and then playing it, usually works. Don't know if that will help but or not, but it usually works for me.
aikanae @ 39:
Sorry I dont have a link for this: it came in an email. I'm quoting the whole thing because it's germane.
EXACTLY WHAT IS "FRIENDLY FIRE"?
Carl F. Worden
Regarding the alleged “friendly fire” death of football star turned patriot, Pat Tillman, some details have emerged that put an entirely different light on what we were all told originally.
We were first told that Tillman’s convoy was attacked in Afghanistan and Tillman got killed by enemy fire. Then we were told that Tillman’s convoy was attacked, he charged up the hill to take a position to fire back, and was killed by “friendly fire” from his own men who mistook him for a Taliban raghead.
We are now informed that Tillman had three bullet holes in his forehead from a .223 caliber weapon that were so very closely arranged that doctors examining the body suspected Tillman had been murdered by “friendly fire” at close range.
We are further informed, only now, that there was no evidence left behind of any attack by enemy forces on the convoy. There were no spent shell casings, tracks, NADA. What the hell is going on here?
Some of you will recall that an earlier version included a “friendly” who saw Tillman up the hill, mistook him for enemy, and fired away with a .50 caliber machine gun, killing Tillman as he tried to wave and tell them he was a “friendly”.
Now we learn it wasn’t a .50 caliber machine gun that took Tillman down, but somebody with a .223 M16/M4, who shot Tillman in the forehead from 100 meters. Had it been a .50, Tillman wouldn’t have had a head left on his shoulders with one shot, let alone three.
I happen to be a precision rifle shot, and I can attest that an off-the-rack military-issue M16/M4, even with scoped sights, doesn’t normally hold groups of three shots under two inches apart at 100 meters. So how did Tillman end up with three tight shots to the forehead at 100 meters? And if he was shot by such a weapon with scoped sights, how is it possible the shooter didn’t clearly see it was Tillman through a scope at 100 meters?
Folks, this is looking more and more like a deliberate murder.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/04/24/tillman.hearing/index.html
Wake up people...back in April this guy was told not to say about the "friendly-fire." The kid is just a soldier listening to orders, if they tell him that it was Osama that killed Tillman, he would probably follow suit and repeat what he has been told. The kid's credibility is out, we need to investigate further what the chaplain said Tillman had said before being killed. Saying, "I am god damn Pat Tillman" does not sound like him, this guy was known not to have a big ego and I am skeptical whether he would say such a thing.
http://www.dvrbs.com/ccwd-wot/WarOnTerror-DavidTapper.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/West/10/22/iraq.marine.ap/index.html
http://greenvilleonline.com/news/2003/07/07/200307079664.htm
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/news/local/100403b1_hotelhomicide
Four soldiers involved in the Jessica Lynch rescue, silenced... take a look at these articles and you will be shocked why the MSM has not picked up on this...the group that rescued her was not more than 20 people, 20% killed...Something about the Jessica Lynch story does not click, and the solider (Oneal) might be threatened with similar fate if he doesnt listen to his sups. If Crooksandliars is truly a liberal blog and is for protecting our soldiers they should do a little more digging into this...
The Tilman quote didn't sound "angry and dismissive" to me. More like a soldier trying to help his fellow soldier get his head together when he's losing control, a supremely dangerous thing to lose on the battlefield.
On the original topic on the difference between the two new broadcasts:
I prefer the NBC broadcast to the Countdown broadcast in this case. As you observed, the NBC version was fair and balanced. It stated all the facts and then allowed the viewer to draw his own conclusions from it. Olbermann reported his own conclusions, which is the job of an opinion show.
As a news programme, NBC is superior in that regard.
(On a related anecdote, when a reporter from the BBC was asked why they never referred to IRA bombers as "terrorists" even though the USA relishes the term, she replied that its not her job to label them anything- she simply reports the facts and lets the viewers decide.)
Snipers. Might or might not have shot during the incident. Were in a separate vehicle. Hmmmmmmmm...........
This is the most dispicable thing I have ever heard of, the way this event has slowly unfolded I never could have imagined in the US. Presently new evidence suggests a broad spectrum of collusion and outright lies, political manipulation - propagandizing to cover the lies and to profit from murder.
Neo - cons profit from Pat Tillman's murder, 650,000 iraqi's murdered, toppled regimes, civil wars, destruction of the constitution, ... etc etc
Pat Tillman is probably worth about 70 gagillion chicken hawk repugs ...
Bush had him fragged, and then used him as a hero to pump up his bullshit war. Better a dead hero than a live critic. Maybe I'm wrong, but something about 3 bullets in a 2 inch circle sure sounds like "frag" to me.
Nobody4President, I dont think Bush knew a damn thing about it until after the fact. He's busy biking and going to bed early. He's kept out of the loop and told on a NTK basis. The sinister part about this was the carte-blanche the mercenaries and rogues had from Rumsfeld and Cheney to do whatever they wanted. They fly around in the fleet of Gulf Stream Vs that Rummie bought in Feb 2001. Along comes this 'super-hero' they used going into the war and he's going to spoil it for everybody making $350Gs/year by screeching about morality the instant he gets home. Tillman was going to stop the gravy train, both for the mercenaries and the US and Israeli defense contractors, and for those skimming off the top of the US Defense budget. But with the Afghan War, where Tillman was, it's the opium biz on the side traveling out of the country in DoD jets that was the real impetus. The biggest bang-up year for opium production since the UN started cataloging this was 2003 or 2005, can't remember. I mean, we're talking logarithmic leaps since before the days the Taliban shut production down.
So. Think your worse scenario, the most outrageously cynical. Then realize that cynical view of what's going on is the tip of this iceberg.
Antiwar.com just put up a column about this:
http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=11367
Narendra @ 48:
Actually, there were six who went into the hospital to rescue her. So 66% killed.
Jim Sucks Corporate Ass Miklaszewski is a fascist toady. I wonder how you let NBC know you're onto them...
I suppose you could buy a GE toaster at Home Despot then return it saying you couldn't stand the blood all over it from the Chinese Slaves.
Stock churn isn't just for Wall Street you know. Overhead. Economic Warfare isn't just a one way street.
The Republican Party is deserving of electoral euthanasia.
The story is interesting exactly because of the discrepancy between the kid and the chaplain. The Chaplain claims the kid said one thing afterward and the kid denies it. If the chaplain is right, it sounds like the kid may have shot Tillman and later sanitized his story to remove any hint of motive.
bubba, or maybe the Bush administration got to the kid.
Oh, goodness me! A chaplain spreads some bullshit to make an atheist soldier look bad when he's not around to defend himself? Why, I'm just beside myself! Next thing you know, we'll hear that Christians often try to make up rumors about famous atheists/heretics making a deathbed conversion (Voltaire, Darwin, Russell, etc.)
Well, could we at least officially retire the worn-out old bromide about "no atheists in foxholes"?
"the chamber of commerce makes sure I don't connect the dots"-Jim Miklaszweski
So am I understanding correctly... first they made up the hero story, burned his belongings, threatened those who knew the truth and told the world Tillman was the ideal soldier.
Then they got caught in the lie and "admitted" it was a friendly fire incident. So sad, too bad. But hey, that's what atheists get, right?
Now it's been revealed that the death was a tad more deliberate than that, more likely brought on by Tillman's need to tell the truth to the press and the world and now it's his own fault and hey, let's just forget about it anyway because he had it coming.
I believe the statement from an earlier post regarding the repug sentiment "It's their own fault if they enlist." is 100% accurate. If you work for this idiot administration you're just asking for it.
Doesn't AP count the votes?
So there you go.
I bet Tillman case is worse than what they are saying now.
busfia is lying about his death. chimpy knew he was pumping the story up in his favor.
repugs are for the birds
The Pentagon and WH are going to punish what, seven or eight military officials for not telling the truth about the Tillman death. And yet the WH and the Pentupgone won't tell us the truth.
harell, okay at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theory, let’s suppose that pat was murdered as all the known facts in the case are suspiciously pointing toward. the question then is why? why would a us soldier point a rifle or pistol at a fellow soldier and fire point blank. when i stated that it ws only a rhetorical question. i probably didn't make it clear in my posting. sorry. ron.
Otay @ 15:
Yes, exactly. This has the bush mindset all over it. Gotta get that religion thing in there, as if that justifies his death?? As if any of his philosophies mattered when he ENLISTED??? HELL NO........... a sports celebrity forfieting a multi-million dollar NFL contract so he could enlist and fight? It doesn't get any better than that, and bush drained every ounce of press out of it. ESPN televised the funeral, the bush admin sent representives.........I watched it, but would have to look up the names. Bottom line is that the bushites could not have been more rah-rah in their support and response to Patrick Tillman's death. NOW, because the truth is coming out, as it always does, but this corrupt-to-the-core gang of evils do what they do best...........deny, and call good evil, and evil good.
My God, what Sgt. Bryan O'neal must be going through!! He has set the record straight over and over, yet the spin goes on. He doesn't even recall speaking to the "chaplin"...........smear away, but the truth remains the truth.
Patrick Tillman, a selfless man of truth, conviction, and character. No spin can or will ever tarnish his service to our country!
Snowball @ 27:
SUPERB find, Snowball!!! The article also mentions chris, Tweety-bird, Matthews...........these people may well be the lowest form of life on this planet. This is also why I haven't watched a thing, NOTHING, of MSM news, or anything else for that matter since the 2000 election! I wait for KO's stuff to be posted on sites like C&L, but would never, EVAH, expose my beautiful mind to the trash that is on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, Faux, etc......
BTW......Bill Moyer's has been doing some very enlightening shows regarding Iraq.
Pat Tillman's death devastated his family cut his life short & mademe think how many others died as a result of some boneheads killing
their fellow comrades in arms over some petty grudge. I'm an example
of so called friendly fire when five of us were hit in Korea by practicing
soldiers screwing around with grenades. I lost four fingers & took shrapnel in the gut. Nobody died but we all had been hit & hurt for life. This was
never covered up it was just a awful mistake. We were men of honor in
those days. My heart goes out to the Tillman family & as for the Bush
administration I salute them with the middle finger. (Left hand only)
Nate @ 17:
I agree also.
NBC is owned by General Electric, which receives the majority of its revenue from defense contractors. Why would you imagine that a defense contractor would be truthful about anything having to do with a war?
a chaplain who debriefed the unit
SAY WHAT???????? When the hell did chaplains start debriefing of combat missions?????????? I don't believe that's even legal under Military Code!! And even if it is it's still damn strange to say the least!
Here is an alternative possibility I'll throw out (just another possibility to consider):
Tillman was fragged because of something he said that offended a believer. The cover up is to protect it from getting out that a heroic atheist was murdered because he was an atheist. Now the admin and others are preparing for the story coming out by trying to make Tillman look like he deserved it, and therefore excuse the cover up.
So, Tillman wouldn't have been murdered by his fellow soldiers if he hadn't been an atheist?
That seems about right to me.
The way things are going in this country nothing surprises me anymore.
Motives arent always rational. Maybe the kid shot Tillman in anger/rage for being mocked in battle. Maybe he had issues with Tillman and being mocked was the tipping point. As for any cover-up, the military is a CYA organization. If an issue is dodgy but few witnesses exist they are more than happy not to look under a rock. The White House is the same, they wont reveal documents releated to this as they dont want to be put through the 24-hour news spin cycle over what they knew or suspected and when they did so.
Before the grand mal conspiries are invoked you have to admit the possibility that this is just another proof of the banality of evil. Not that it shouldnt be looked at but I dont see any particular reason to think the WH was the center of this.
Jim Miklaszweski looks like he should be on the DC Madam's client list, probably right above Vitter in the "diapering" category.
If I was under fire and one of the soldiers I depend on was talking to his imaginary friend instead of helping, I'd be an angry atheist too.
Tillman was killed because he did not have the Pat Robertson halo of prayer protection! Those three bullets would have diverted around him if he had had the 700 club praying for him after he sent in his donation.
The whole atheist thing does sound like a smear but American Citizens are left to speculate because Bush and Company, as usual, are obfuscating the truth, have muddied the waters. Frustration is one of the results of BushCos constant obfuscation and the reason many want them to go away. The Sooner The Better
Otay @ 24:
They group that hit Tillman were firing steadied automatic weapons, not just assault-rifle 3-round bursts. SAWs are machine guns that fire the same 5.56mm ammunition as a M-16 (replaced by the M4).
A report describing the action is at: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062306_tillman_files4.shtml
The SAW can fire both 3-round bursts and fully automatic. This weapon has a bipod to steady it and is made to be fired from a supported position for greater accuracy.
Pat was a stationary target because, according to the action report, he was dead on the ground by the time the bullets smacked him in the head. The guys in the Humvees were in a stable shooting position, at dusk, 40 meters away. They were firing stabilized (with bipods) automatic weapons, not assault-rifles that are not braced.
To qualify on a SAW, you need to meet the standards here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-14/fm23...
under 5.18. In the end at 10 meters, you are supposed to be able to shoot 3 rounds into a target, with all shots falling within a 1cm-square spot on the target. Any SAW gunner is qualified toput a 3-shot group in a 1-cm square target at 33 feet, and these guys were elite.
Pat's unit split into two groups in a canyon. Pat's brother Kevin was in the group of soldiers who came upon Pat's group, and thinking them Taliban, fired on Pat's group. Pat was dismounted, along with O'Neal and an Afghani, because they were chasing the Taliban who had fired on the groups from 500 meters away. There were no vehicles shot up because the Taliban were smart and stayed hundreds of meters away, so as to be able to pop down behind ridgelines after harassing the convoy.
Kevin testified before Congress about the cause-of-death coverup. While bushco and CYA officers are to blame for a treacherous coverup, don't insult the Rangers who gave their lives for our country as accomplices to a murder of one of their own. The Rangers were yanked around tactically and denied support, but no soldier intentionally murdered Tillmann. You don't think that Kevin Tillmann wouldn't have noticed someone targeting his brother intentionally, when Kevin was close behind the lead Hummvie from which the automatic weapons fired?
Pat's brother Kevin was in the group of soldiers who fired on Pat's group. Concocting a murder plot from within his own unit, men he trusted as brothers in arms, is really insulting.
Can't we accept that it was enough of a crime that the military and bushco covered up how he died? Can't we realize that Pat Tillmann, whatever he said about the stupidity and illegality of the war, would be completely unlikely to criticize the war as a soldier in uniform? It is illegal under the UCMJ, and it would bring shame upon him. After he was out, it is fair game. While he was in, he would abide by the UCMJ (military laws).
Bush had Tillman murdered on purpose.
Tillman was assassinated because the White House political advisors knew they could not counter the negative attention he would have focused on Bush and his myriad crimes heading into the 2004 election season. They knew they had to fight him over there so they wouldn't have to fight him over here.
We should round up every neocon traitor and put them down for a permanent dirt nap.
Terrible @ 75:
My thought exactly....This would be the role of the units commander or MI,,,. Was he taking confession? And why would a chaplain address from question an entire unit?
Something stinks here, and I don't this is a mis-charactarization or mistake in reporting. That is not the term a reporter would use, unless it was given to them as part of a briefing...
no longer a proud american @ 69:
Too bad we can't follow the money on this one.
Terrible @ 75:
Yeah, that's only for Republicans and their pages.
FormerMilitary @ 82:
10 meters is around 33 feet. If you use an M16/M4 at 33 feet, you see who you're shooting at, friendly fire or not. If you have a scope on it, you can see the blood vessels in his eyes.
The Rangers are supposed to be an elite group. Disciplined and crack shots. To attribute this lack of control by Rangers to members of their own platoon, to people they ate and drank with, is illogical.
Or as Kevin Tillman testified: "There was one small problem with the narrative, however: It was utter fiction."
We still dont have the truth.
tHeGaMeOfLiFe @ 67:
I just washed some droppings off my car.
[...] Don’t miss the blog post on Pat Tillman’s death. And watch both [...]
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