Join Veterans in Writing President to Come Clean on Tillman
By SilentPatriot Tuesday Jul 31, 2007 4:00pm
Sign the VoteVets petition and demand the truth about Pat Tillman's death.
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Frist & Fragged!
TSIRF
This is too much, he's dead, leave him and his family be. If you want real justice it's time to start looking inside yourself and nurturing it there.
Don't waste your time. This current president doesn't give two shits what a group of vets...or the general public...thinks about anything.
What do you think is going to happen??? Suddenly Chimpy is going to see the error of his ways and come clean???? Yeah, right.
Write to the president, and again see his middle finger!
This poor man was just used by these Republican murderers. Now they sit before Congress saying, "Catch us, if you can." I wanted to strangle Dumsfailed. He sat there and all but said this man's mother couldn't prove a damned thing. This poor woman knows her son was MURDERED in cold blood by the ARMY of the NATION he volunteered to serve, based on LIES his misLEADERS told him.
I hate these a$$hole$!
Why bother even starting a petition? You could get a billion people to sign it and it wouldnt do any good. HE DOES NOT CARE what the American people think.
bilhelm-X @ 3:
get real even his mother wants answers!
[Deleted-Off topic]
If we can't have an honest accounting of this famous soldier's death, then it just goes to show any would-be armed forces volunteer that the service doesn't give a shit about them.
Rage @ #6: Not sure if you and I were watching the same CSPAN-3 hearing
this morning....of which I watched in it's entirety. Those three Generals and
Rummy were, or so it appears to me, way "up the ladder" and in reality had
little or no involvement in the Dept. of Army's mistakes/errors(which has been
admitted) as to misinformation being disseminated to the Tillman family and to
the general public. No, I am no niave; but if one takes off his/her blinders
and looks at the bigger pictures, and uses some rational and common sense,
I believe that person would come to the conclusion that "Yes, errors/mistakes/
misinformation ocurred"(at the Dept. of Army); but as others above have
implied, Tillman is dead and let him and his family be. It is indeed a tragedy;
however, at some point in time, our Congress needs to move on since, after
7 hearings, there is no evidence that this particular group of distinguished
Generals(I leave Rummy out) were involved in a "cover up".
So many pessimists around this thread...
What, did I stumble into a "grumpy old farts convention" or something?
Doing NOTHING about things like this is how we ended up with the current state of affairs. Whether or not El Chimpo listens is immaterial; the fact that voices are raised is more important. It tells the rest of complacent America (yes, I'm referring to all you "do nothing trolls" here) that we won't sit idly by and "wish for better days".
As my granpappy used to say, "Shit or get off the pot." Do something, or shut up. If you're not part of the silution you ARE part of the problem.
Copy your Representative and Senators as well...
Why go back in time to Stalin's Russia to look for murderous repression. Speak out against the bastards' war, and get 3 bulets in the head.
Doggiebobo @ 11:
are you talking about the lieing son of a bitch that said we know where the weapons of mass destruction are in iraq they are north south east and west of bagdad ! you mean that prick?
Navy Vet @ 12:
If it makes you feel better, go for it.
But show me one single instance when expressing a contrary view got you anywhere with this White House.
You can't, because they simply don't give a shit. And never will.
Once again, if it makes you feel warm and fuzzy on the inside, write away. As for me, fuck it. I'll just sit back and watch this country sink....which these days, it probably deserves.
Tyree @ 15: I dislike Dickhead even more than you; but his lieing about WMD
in Iraq is a totally different issue than this hearing on Tillman. As I tried to
relate, I watched the ENTIRE hearing this morning and I saw/heard nothing
to implicate the 3 Generals.
Doggiebobo @ 17:
once a lieing son of a bitch allways a lieing son of a bitch!!!!
Opps....Tyree...I meant Rummy not Dickhead....had that asshole on my mind
because of another C&L thread..
Doggiebobo @ 19:
these generals are just mercinary inabelers for the bush cheny criminals and the truths not in them , if theirs another star waiting at the end of their ass kissing!
Navy Vet @ 12:
Damned straight Navy Vet. As a Marine Corps vet I'm definately signing it.
no matter what anyone does, this administration will not...repeat...will NOT ever reveal anything about anything that would be a detriment to their political agendas. this is no exception. the only cure is impeachment. no more. no less.
bilhelm-X @ 3:
Tillman's mother, Mary, and brother, Kevin are the ones who called for the investigation and were at the hearing today.
Is it asking too much for a mother to know how her son really died?
tyree @ 20:
Sorry you feel that way. As an ex-military person, I served our country under the
leadership of highly qualified officers, who had integrity and skills to conduct difficult
missions, so in my opinion, to "shot gun" these distinguished individuals seems unfair just
because they had the misfortunate to be serving under this particular dishonest admin.
Signed and signed.
the top brass at the pentagon and the civilian leadership best not continue their mistreatment and deception of the troops and their families. or instead of an army of one, there will be an army of none.
and, i agree with navy vet, this is not an issue that should be dropped. the tillman tragedy was used effectively for propaganda, very effectively. the bushies don't listen, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
of course, i can envision the civilian leadership in the pentagon discussing amongst themselves the fact that private contractor mercenaries are not covered by the same rules and regulations as our the armed forces. which, for them, means a reduction/erasure of their responsibility and culpability in combatant/civilian deaths. and i imagine that is sounding better and better to them all the time.
--down with private/corporate armies--
tyree @ 15:
garbage in = garbage out times 7 hearings is still garbage
What makes anyone think that this administration will ever tell the truth about anything?
You can bet that whenever Big Dick and lil' george finally leave office, the company that provides paper shredders to the government is going to have a massive lay-off.
Why? Because the Cheney-Bush motto is "You can't handle the truth!"
They're just giving us another lie that they hope we'll believe this time. I say keep after it.
All lies, more lies, nothing but lies so help me Bush. When will this charade end. Send a message http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=268
JudyLou @ 29:
It's like peeling an onion - you strip away one lie, and there's another underneath.
I agree, keep peeling. It's like a race, will we get to the truth before they reach the finish line?
Doggiebobo @ 24:
as an ex navy combat vet i served to, and one thing i learned all officers are not brilliant nor competent just because they wear better uniforms and get chow in the ward room, i can name dozens of officers whod sell your ass out for another stripe!
As my granpappy used to say, “Shit or get off the pot.” Do something, or shut up. If you’re not part of the silution you ARE part of the problem.
Dream on. Petitions, hearings, marches, subpoenas ... Bush will just keep telling everyone to go screw themselves. Impeach AND Remove. It's the only way to get the lot of 'em. Whining about how Karl Rove won't give you documents is silly - use Inherent Contempt and jail that asshole. Congress can try him themselves and put him in prison.
I just watched Hardball, and Mr. Eric Egland defend the President and his minions. It sickens me to see this putz defend this president instead of his fellow soldier who fought and died for this country. This moron kept calling Jon Soltz a partisan hack, instead of dealing with the facts of the case. Isn't that just like a Republican, accuse the person debating you of being partisan, instead of debating the facts of the case. The one thing Mr. Egland did not answer, because he cannot defend or explain, is the this one question, why is this President claiming executive privilege about the death of a soldier. You would think this would really bother Egland, but no, he continued to blame the underlings, exonerating Rumsfeld, Myers and Bush.
At what point do these Republicans try and regain any shred of their honor. What can this administration do that will cause these people to be ashamed of this administration and themselves. If covering up the facts surrounding the death of a soldier was not enough for a fellow soldier like Egland, then what is. Mr. Egland, like so many of his conservative cohorts, apparently does not know the facts of the case himself. He just goes on TV to defend his President, facts bedamned. Apparently he doesn't know Bush was warned in April or May 2004, before giving a speech at Pat Tillman, not to discuss the way in which he died, because it appears he might have died from friendly fire. I guess he thinks Mr. Bush was morally justified letting his administration go out and tout Tillman's heroism, knowing all the while, the facts of his death were not yet clear. I guess he thinks Mr. Bush, knowing who Pat Tillman was, was morally justified to not make any inquiries into the investigation of his death. I gues he thinks the military was justified using Pat Tillman as a poster boy for recruitment, knowing all the while they were lying to potential recruits to get them to enlist. But then again, as with most supporters of this administration these days, why let the facts get in the way of the conclusion they want the public to reach about this administration.
Mr. Egland is particularly disgusting because he served with soldiers in Iraq, and probably knows comrades who have died in this war. It is one thing to continue to support this President and his policy, it is quite another to demean the death of a soldier, the tremendous suffering of his family, the lying and misleading to the public, and the outright lying to the Senate and House committees about the death of this soldier. Again, I ask; At what point do these partisans defend the soldiers, the constitution, and the American people over this President? Sadly, I think Mr. Egland has answered this question, and that is never.
Randi Rhodes caller Sanchez made some great points today. I can't believe this could happen in our country
bilhelm-X at 3, his family doesn't want to let be. Maybe signing the petition will have no results, but I kind of draw an analogy between signing this petition and the call for impeachment. If crimes are committed and you just walk away, you are sending a message that there is no rule of law in this country anymore. Whereas, if you make some kind of gesture, you are indicating that you profoundly care about justice.
Justice for Pat Tillman! Rumsfeld is not fit to even speak his name.
This President lives in the White 'HOUSE OF CARDS'. You mess with ANY of the cards and the entire house will come crashing down around his ears. He is never going to come clean on anything. He would actually have to care or have the capability of experiencing shame, guilt, embarrassment or remorse. He has none of those things. He would have to have the ability to put truth and what's best for the country in front of his own needs or ambitions.
I wish with all my heart that it was a REQUIREMENT for the president and vice president to have to undergo psychological testing before they are allowed to take office. I am going to write my senators and request it for future administrations. There is just too much at stake.
nwmuse @ 38:
Not a bad ideal, however, the "testing" would(legally) have to be conducted of each and
every presidential candidate(both sides) to be sure that there is no unfair discrimination
and also that way the voters would be aware that their man/woman has passed the test.
holy mackeral he was handsome. I say we owe it to him, his family, and all of the fallen to get to the bottom of this.
The Truth Hurts @ 16:
Warm and fuzzy? Never. It burns my GUT to think a soldier was used by this administration a s a "pawn" in its "global war on terra". The man signed up to defend this nation, and his death was tragic. But the cover-up as to the whys and wherefores is sickening...
You seem to think that one should only take actions that are guaranteed to produce the desired results; fallaciousness at its best. To only act when the results are guaranteed will mean you'll never act. Get involved. Make a stand. Let your voice be heard...just because the foci of your rage never gives in to your demands is no reason to "sit back and watch this country sink..." It's called the Death of a Thousand Cuts, mate.
But, if you choose to be a non-participant in the great struggle ahead, I respectfully suggest you refrain from further commenting here, and on any other blog you frequent. Your "negative waves", like those of so many here latley, are not needed or desired.
How can you tell the difference between A chimp and THE Chimp?
A chimp has intelligence, THE CHIMP only pretends to.
andrew @ 42:
plus, a chimp can ride a bike
a chimp can eat a peanut
You see, he main problem here is, we're talking about "the Commander-In-Chief", "Big Poppy", Great Leader, "Take Us To The Top-Guy"...the chosen one by 1/2 of of the USA...chosen to be in fron of our fighting brave men and women who have made the decision to lay their lives for their Country & Commander-In-Chief and all they ask for is...............honesty and to be treated with dignity.
Is this too much responsibility for you Mr. President. I can underrstand not being responsible enough to avoid being a drunkard, drug-taking, draft-dodger but jesus H....Georgie....two simple things like honesty and respect for those who would die for you?
Pat Tillman was on of 3500+ soldiers "used" by this administration, he just happened to be famous prior to enlisting.
Once again however, like every other weekly crime perpetrated by the criminals who are overthrowing our country, nothing will be done about it in the end. Not a god damn thing.
Buckle up folks, the next false flag terror attack is coming to a city near you, and it's taking your last remaining rights and freedoms with it.
Well....Yea, this is a worthwhile endeavor... And for sure, the Tillman family deserves ligitimate answers... Not the phony P.R. 'he's a hero, here's his medal now go home folks' story out of Bushco and the pentagon... No, they, and all of us, deserve honest real answers....About Pat Tillmans death, about the entire scope of this bullshit war... But, given this administrations track record on all things these last six years, given how this sordid affair has been handled to date... I just don't see this going anywhere.... I don't see this administration doing anything more than permutations on the existing lip service of spin, half truths and outright lies they've been providing up to now... Anyone really looking for the truth about Pat Tillmans death, will probably have to wait, at least until these current criminals are out of power.....just the way it is I suspect.............JD
I'm sorry, but a gazillion petitions will NEVER make these criminals come clean. I signed their petition, but am completely disheartened that any of them will ever come to justice. It's just that simple.
You'll have more luck writing Santa Claus for a pony than writing Bush for anything positive and honest. The only way Bush would ever come clean about his crimes is if he was in a war crimes court trying to cut a deal to save his worthless hide.
and yet some still enlist............... (when you feel you cant afford school and when your American-suburbia-mind-crushingly-sterile environment have nothing to offer you but a dead end job,... what do you do?)
if your not planning on everyone showing up in person then what's the point?
have you not grasped what we're up against?
I signed it yesterday... let's get to the truth!
Doggiebobo, buddy,
You've obviously never served a day in the military. No one in the chain of command is that detached from any point of active duty action. If some lowly grunt farted in Fort Hood, the Joint Chiefs would be able to give the President the exact time the wind was fully broken within a nanosecond's accuracy, especially if this fart was pertinent to a mission as important as making the Iraq occupation palatable to the American idiots back home. The orders this farting grunt will receive comes off the desk of these so-called hoodwinked Generals through a chain of command to this gaseous little idiot at Fort Hood. Should he be deployed, reports of this gaseous idiots progress will be regularly reported to the uppermost brass, whether they read it or not. Chances are that unless this idiot gasball goes off on some loose cannon tear, the brass will never recall his name.
Tilman was no ordinary grunt from Dumbbuttistan, though. Tilman left a very lucretive NFL career with the Arizona Cardinals to volunteer out of patriotic compassion to serve his Country in the Army as a Ranger in Iraq. He was the highest profiled grunt to enlist to date! The Brass from here to the Timbuktu theater knew Tilman's college and pro stats, social security number, and his favorite color. As soon as Tilman graduated basic training, that photo of him with his beret broke down over his left brow became the official recruiting poster for the Army. The problem was Pat got a peek behind the quagmire curtain, and was immediately thoroughly disgusted with the war crimes he had been duped into committing just to shamelessly advance global corporate fortunes. This unforeseen situation with the Army's national hero had started to show all the markings of a potential national embarrasment.
Doggie, we must give the military personnel layer right under the allegedly "hoodwinked" brass who've already answered inquests about Tilman's execution the benefit of the doubt. They all swear on a stack that Tilman had become disillusioned and hadn't bothered to monitor his words or his tone in voicing as much. Tilman had begun to keep a journal of his days of service that the hoodwinked brass ordered BURNED with the rest of his personal effects once he was dead. The uniform in which Tilman met his death was BURNED. These men have testefied that they were ordered to cover up the truth of fragging with the deceptive cover of heroism under enemy fire! The grunts who were with Tilman still deny under oath that there was even any sort of enemy confrontation that day. Yet, the President okayed this cover-up because he sorely needed public support for this Iraqi quagmire he's obtusely accomplished.
Several respected medical examiners who examined Tilman's remains at his family's request have testified that the DC brass silenced their reports of three M16 shots to Tilman's head that were undoubtly fired from distances no farther than 10 yards away. As far as these specialists are concerned, there is no possible way this was a suicide or an accident.
The problem is that there is absolutely NO accountability for the brass that stratospherically removed from grunt daily reality, especially when supported by a very corrupt Commander-in-THIEF out to enhance his war-presidency legacy. These a$$hole$ don't give a damn about lying to Congress about the fragging of some disgruntled, big-mouthed, high-profiled crybaby who betrayed the brass' alterior motives with his moralistic griping and whining. The brass has already hi-fived each other via email for keeping this dog of predicament as far under the radar as they did from the moment Tilman became disgruntled to the moment he became flag-draped cargo in the hull of a Boeing headed home. Having covered their tracks, ruthlessly obstructed justice with their interference in an inquest of this crime, and destroyed as much of the evidence as they could very early on, they can rather gingerly sit smugly before the Congress and glibly dare America to prove that any of this ever happened with zero remorse, just as Dumsfailed did today.
Like I said, I hate these murderous a$$hole$.
Navy Vet @ 41:
I'll comment as much as I wish, thank you very much. If you don't like it, don't read or react to my posts.
As far as watching this country sink....I think that's the best idea of all. Let it collapse and then rebuild. Start over....because what we have now is clearly not working.
Don't know if petitions like this do much. But I signed anyway. Only thing I'd wanted to add (but couldn't figure out how) would be the observation: "Where men build on false grounds, the more they build, the greater is the ruin."
To all the Fox News viewers at the low end of the intelligence spectrum;
we know that these stories are upsetting and we know what that does
to your blood pressure. You're all saying 'isn't it a shame what happened
to that nice man...what's his name...Tillman'. 'Yeah, but did you know he
was a heathen and is in hell right now?'
Watch that pressure, now, and keep
watching that nice man on Fox with the eye shadow, Mr Smith. He's not a
heathen even if he is like that Mr. Anderson fella from CNN.
assholes douchebags fuckheads ...
O MY !
The Truth Hurts @ 53:
Your funeral.
If you don't like the petition, don't sign it and don't tell the rest of us it's a waste of time. And don't go away mad, just go away. People like you, who want to bitch and moan about the "state of the nation" but refuse to do anything that isn't ByGodGuaranteed to get the result you want, have no cause to complain. Put up or shut up.
I support the troops. I do not support the mission, or the war, but I support the men and women doing their duty. Do you? Prove it. Sign the petition. Make your support known.
it would be great ... if the president could actually read the letters.
everybody should sign this...I did....it's kinda like voting,if you don't ,don't complain.
The Truth Hurts @ 16:
Just because it doen't work doesn't mean we should give up...........silence is submission.......I understand how you feel rite now.....but you'll get over it..............this country is worth it.
The Truth Hurts @ 4:
You are 100% correct, my friend. This POTUS is delusional and (in all seriousness) mentally deranged.
"With three bullet holes in his forehead, with his diary and uniform burned, with his opinion of the war ("so fucking illegal") well-established, with his access to mainstream American media absolutely guaranteed, there was never any reason to accept the Army's changing story of Pat Tillman's not-so-accidental death.
Quite simply, the former Arizona State and NFL star could not be allowed to return home to tell what he had seen. He couldn't even be allowed to talk to Noam Chomsky on the telephone.
According to "news" reports which have mostly tried to paint her as crazy, Pat Tillman's mother has felt all along that her son was killed deliberately -- by people who should have been on his side. I have felt the same thing ever since I heard he was dead, and especially once the details of the tragedy began to emerge."
http://winterpatriot.blogspot.com/2007/07/new-details-support-old-story-...
The Tillman Family deserves the truth!!!!
Impeach
I went to VoteVets but I will cannot sign any petition to bush that begins with "Mr. President." He is NOT my president and does not deserve the title. He's no more than an illegal squatter in our White House.
I can, however, write my representatives and maybe a LTTE in my little town might help clear the air. Burning his clothes and his diary. The bush administration will never be able to explain that.
Thankyou NavyVet .... Just remember everyone, We Vets must honor the oath we took (under God) to protect OUR constitution from enemies foreign OR domestic...How many of you have taken that oath?. Those people in Washington took the same oath....they too should uphold it....We all are loyal to the constitution and we Still are a nations of Laws.
The notion that Rumsfeld is somehow not responsible is abominable to me. As the head honcho at the Pentagon at the time of Tillman's death, the responsibility rests squarely with him. He and his cronies covered it up and lied to Pat's family and the rest of the country, spinning a heroic story out of a tragedy. It's an insult to Pat's memory and to the rest of America. Please make your opinion know about the Pentagon's responsibility; vote on: http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=268
this is a joke
NavyVet, well put.
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world."
-Gandhi
I signed this earlier today. I will be making phone calls to my Senators etc tomorrow about both this and the voting machine debacle.
I hear so many of you crying "it wont do any good" or (my personal favorite) "he's not my president so I wont sign anything starts ...Dear Mr. President"
This is the reason were in this shit storm and likely are going to go down with this rotting listing Titanic.
Because so many of you are a bunch of mealy mouthed little whiny ass crybaby fucks that think you sit here on you're P.C. banging out you're discontent therefore you're not part of the problem. You're a HUGE part of the problem.
Just sign it you pathetic fucking weasels and why you're at it, take a few minutes out of you're soccer mom little league dad, SUV driving candy ass fucking day, to actually stand up for someone who DIED FOR YOU'RE UNWORTHY ASS!
Maybe a slogan you can identify with would be better here...
JUST DO IT! Well it made you buy those shoes....who knows???
You really expect Bush to come clean on anything?
C'mon, let's get real.
Impeach, convict, sentence and throw the fucking key away.
That is all.
Navy Vet @ 12:
Tell that to Nancy Pelosi. Impeachment would be doing something, signing a petition that reads "Dear Mr. President" is doing nothing.
Let's not delude ourselves with feel good moments. I would be more hopeful if my fellow Americans felt down right miserable about themselves. We have no right to feel good about ourselves, and if ever we came to grips with this harsh truth we would finally be doing the right thing.
Navy Vet @ 41:
I don't think you understand that the "great struggle" starts within.
Your presumption to banish someone who expresses themselves honestly is a sign that you haven't begun the struggle.
[...] Wednesday’s “Hardball,” VoteVet’s Jon Soltz squared off with another veteran, Eric Egland, of Vets For Freedom on today’s heated testimony on [...]
I work on an army base in Germany. What I'm hearing on my end:
"The hardest thing I've ever had to do is stand before my soldiers and lie to them about the war."
"The war is a joke."
"I don't want to go back downrange, but if I have to, I'll take Afghanistan over Iraq."
"The more I deploy to Iraq, the greater my chances of choosing the short match-stick."
"We're losing so many, and most of them are just kids."
"My husband told me when he got back from Iraq that he just didn't love me anymore."
"My child asked the man at the post office, "Are you my daddy?"
"This isn't the army we signed up for. We're getting out as soon as my husband gets back."
The Tillman debacle is part and parcel of the colossal mess that Bush has made of the DoD.
Another comment, or question, really.
Will each member of Tillman's unit be testifying in this investigation, separately? This is what I would like to see.
"A FEW GOOD MEN" repeating itself. It's a cover-up "for the good of the country". Sick.....but that's the Pentagon & the the Vice-President.
Doggiebobo @ 11:
Errors occurred?? SOMEONE authored a completely bogus Silver Star citation at a time when it was know theat it was a friendly fire death. Who? If you think the "mistakes were made and we're terribley sorry buut no one is at fault" is acceptable, you deserve the democracy you are in the process of getting. One that is completely not accountable to the American voter. You may be ok with that, but I'm not.
When bush got elected, I watched as the military organization that I belonged to slowly deteriorated due to right wing politics trumping professionalism.
I believe that this young man who had a significant amount of notoriety was not only used by the right wing political apparatus, but was murdered by his fellow Army personnel based on such.
I've seen right wing psychos within the military power structure play dirty for their own political agenda in my own neck of the military woods. That's why I left just as fast as I could, even though I wished that I could have in good conscience stayed a few years longer.
Pat Tillman was a brave and courageous person who gave up fame and fortune to serve his country(hear that Dick Cheney). If he was killed from multiple bullets at less that 10 metres, then it raises the question of murder, or a screw-up.
For those who say he's dead...leave him be. Tell that to his mom and family. They've been trying for years to get the truth.
Pat Tillman said that the war (in Iraq) was 'so f------ illegal'. This must have really pissed off people in high places. Their poster boy for recruiting (remember, Bush and friend's children won't be serving).
Pat Tillman wanted to meet Noam Chomsky as soon as he got home. Imagine how that would affect their propping up an illegal war
I understand bush baby's may be endangered.
http://earthhopenetwork.net/bush%20art/bush_twins_prank.jpg
Arran @ 75:
The DoD is going the way of the DoDo bird.
My heart aches for the Tillman family. They have been treated abominally by the country that Pat so loved that he put duty and honor ahead of self. Mary Tillman reared a beautiful selfless, smart, well-read, duty and honor driven young man. She is to be lauded for she is what is right and good about this world. What a contrast this man makes to the selfish, money grubbing, bought and paid for politicians that have treated this family as no one(even them) should be treated. Thank you for your sacrifice....oh what a leader we have lost. Stay on these creeps Mary...the majority of the country supports you and will stand with you.
Maggie @ 84:
even them=the money grubbing, self servers
rage @ 52:
My thoughts to a letter!
Me too, damn it! ME TOO!
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