If a powerful op-ed falls in a forest...
By Steve Benen Monday Aug 20, 2007 4:04pmAfter the Michael O’Hanlon/Ken Pollack op-ed appeared in the NYT a few weeks ago, the political response was overwhelming. It was read, repeatedly, on the floor of Congress; it was cited frequently by administration officials and its ideological allies; and O’Hanlon and Pollack became fixtures on the talking-head shows. The piece, and the story behind, was practically ubiquitous.
Flash forward a few weeks. A couple of days ago, the NYT also published an op-ed from seven infantrymen and noncommissioned officers with the 82nd Airborne Division, who will soon be returning home frustrated and jaded. The piece, “The War as We Saw It,” was a sweeping condemnation of everything we’ve heard of late from the Kristol-McCain-Lieberman-O’Hanlon-Pollack crowd.
Surely, given the vast coverage of the O’Hanlon/Pollack piece, the powerful perspective of these heroes would be immediately picked up everywhere, right? Wrong. Greg Sargent explained, that the op-ed “has been met with near-total silence.”
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You'd think the Dems would pick it wouldn't you. Wouldn't you? No? Oh well, thanks for playing - you had a democracy once.
That's because it doesn't fit the CW of the lapdog media. Soldiers love war, supporting our troops means sending them to die, only wussy libruls are against the war.
Typical.
When Tucker's show came on yesterday he actually mentioned it as a teaser for what topics would be covered in his show. He said something like, should soldiers be expressing their opinions while we are at war? That's not a quote, but I think it's damned close.
You can bet money that over in Wingnuttia they have the scream machine warmed up and are looking desperately for some excuse to discredit the troops who wrote the editorial, just like they did with Scott Beauchamp.
But until then, the chickenhawks of the 101st Keyboard Kommandos will ignore them.
It's like the reverse of Thumper's Rule: If you can't say something bad, don't say anything at all.
sad
slow ride, take it easy.
Reality and facts are boring to the reich-wing MSM.
well, the media ain't interested in nuthin' but lies.
pissed off patricia @ 4:
I thought tukkker was getting canceled?
baby jesus wonders if a husband speaks his mind in a forest
and his wife is not there to hear it, is he still wrong?
Surely after the kerfuffle when it was exposed that O'Hanlon/Pollack were essentially embeds, the MSM can't repeat the same mistake by presentin' the perspective of soldiers- the ultimate embeds!
;)
baby jesus @ 11:
LOL.
And this is why baby jesus remains a great philosopher to this day.
Paul Rieckhoff posted about this at huffington. I gave an honest comment, which of course was immediately removed. Huffington is involved in an ongoing and long standing program of censuring comments at their site.
Get partisan at your own peril - the 'left' is just as bad or worse.
And I personally still dont want to hear what killers think the problems are - they are the problem.
I can only admit I have insufficient information to know why I should trust the analysts who have an interest in selling something; or troops on the ground who do not have the overall picture. They may be right. The issue isn't facts. It's credibility.
Arguing doesn't change reality. If there are false facts, the enemy will exploit them. Until I have a reliable report, I cannot answer offer any support or comment. These are in the air:
- Who can we trust to give us the real story;
- What's the most effective way forward from those facts.
The sooner we figure out a legitimate, workable counter-offensive against the Right-Wing Noise Machine, this will continue to happen over and over and over again. It's that simple.
Soldiers aren't paid "Expert" Advisers so their comments, beliefs, and Ideas are not considered relevant.
The veterans for peace and/or Iraq war veterans correspond with the troops who are opposed to this occupation.
But who ever gives them a voice?
Donaldd @ 17:
LOL. Congressional junkets no more? The tip of the sword knows what it's up against. Perhaps that is wishful thinking.
Is it just me or didn't I hear Hillary Clinton and Carl Leving just give a couple of "the surge is working - it's about time they finally get it right" speaches? That'll explain why the deafening silence. Could the neocon lobbyists with its deep pockets be leaning on congress to back off?
Our policy is being set by people whose first instinct is violence - life as a dominance game. Nothing good will come from this and I dont want to hear differences of opinion between people whose first choice is violence.
If someone - it may be too late even now - doesnt inject a non-violent perspective into the debate then we will just get more of the same, violence and death.
Hillary Clinton said recently that the current strategy is working but is years too late - WHAAAAAT? My goddamn head is exploding. How can she be allowed to slide past an implicit acceptance of what the ENTIRE WORLD considers to be criminal behavior - wars of opportunity?
I dont want to hear from the 82nd - they are killers. I dont want to hear from neocons - they WANT to be killers. I dont want to hear from Clinton - she needs to convince you she COULD be a killer.
I want a civil, humane and constructive solution .... and I'm not hearing it.
If any of you still think America is a democracy, then you are fucking stupid.
dadams @ 22:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When you rely on the boogie man to do your bidding, what hides in the closet and scares you at night is the truth.
America the narrative. The greatest country on the planet is sorta like the towns best chicken fried steak . . . if you say so.
Donaldd @ 17:
Journalists writing opeds are not paid "Expert" Advisers either, so their comments, beliefs, and Ideas are not considered relevant.
Blowhard Bullshit Artists: 1
Truthtelling Veterens: 0
A parsing comment: The focus has shifted from whether the result on the ground are real, or whether results are doable; to something slightly different: Which report of the results is real. Indeed, if the President can't make real progress, I suppose he can find someone who can write better reports. Shockingly, the President (or his staff in DC) plans to write Patreas' report for Congress.
If the troops' reports lack merit, then let the troops write the report, and let Congress debate the results on the ground. Congress can't handle reality; let them debate it. Or is that asking too much of legislators responsible for funding military operations? Sadly, with today's Congress, yes. Where would Congress be without its rubber stamp? In the same position: Politically and militarily irrelevant in overseeing the ineffectual.
The idea that reality is a debatable concept is what led us to where we are today.
Doom and Gloom all over again, next the supposed progressives will tell me to 'stay home on election day'
Obama/Hillary 08
anon @ 21:
I agree with everything except the 82nd part. They are brave soldiers following orders. Unlike everybody else who went to Iraq in a very sheltered Green zone bubble, they haven't been PR'ed to death so their word means something.
Seele^ @ 30:
nice ticket - a carpet bagger and a republican hawk
kdjid @ 31:
I expect more from people. They arent running a car wash on the corner for charity. They are there killing people. That matters. They are responsible, no one else. You cant morally discharge your responsibility for killing. The Germans tried that. They were wrong. The 82nd are wrong.
we don't really expect any different do we? big corpses like this need government subsidy, and access for their vultures, to the powers, and the carrion. the government feed their little reportotainment people worthless dog food and said dog food is puked out on the teevee to those ever more dull. there has been no sign of any investigative spirit from any news team since Brian Ross found out about Mark Foley, yeah, right. A news story that was years old, and the last hit piece allowed on any criminal that has a prominent (R) next to it's name.
Murray is due for a stunner, and we have Marcy and Glenn and people that come forth with the real news. But note how the MSM has completely abandoned anything resembling investigating, anything. They did prepare us for martial law, or did you notice?
anon @ 32:
Sounds like another plead to 'stay home on election day' to me!
hadenuf @ 13:
LOL x2 x3 okay ROFLMAO!
To be honest: hopefully the calls to stay home on election day will be followed like they were in 2006, so we get the democratic sweep I have been waiting for my entire life!
Seele^ @ 37:
You are the only one I have heard even using the words 'stay home on election day'.
Okay last time. This the media...this is the Zionist Jews (neocons)/Defense Contractors who own the media. Any questions?
This anomaly is a recurring event in the political spectrum. It occurs on this blog too. Truth can be a vile thing when it does not reinforce political BS and will not be tolerated. Another truth that will come from this is 7 soldiers with the 82nd will become civilians, soon.
Is America resilient enough to recover from this administration? Judging Congressional behavior since the '06 elections, I am less than optimistic.
anon @ 33:
Not to be cynical but in the real world (even in the bible), there is a time to kill. Those soldiers are not murderers. Their words mean a lot.
scary world, scary times.
anon @ 38:
Hannity asked all Democrats to stay home on during the last election.
#31-kdjid said that "They are brave soldiers following orders." A better example of an oxymoron would be difficult to find. It takes a hell of a lot more courage to say no to illegal orders than it does to blindly obey what the military tells them to do. The true heroes of this country are people like Lt. Ehren Watada and the members of the IVAW [Iraq Veterans Against the War] who have recognized that the UCMJ tells those in the military that they have not only a right but a duty and an obligation not to obey orders which they consider to be illegal. That is because, as Lt. Watada and legal scholar Richard Falk and others have pointed out, the Iraq War violates the UN Charter, the Geneva Convention, the U.S. Constitution, and the Nuremberg Principles.
It is instructive to heed the words that Lt. Watada spoke when he addressed myself and other veterans at the Veterans for Peace convention last summer in Seattle when he said:
"For he or she must be aware that they are being used for ill-gain. They must hold themselves responsible for individual action. They must remember duty to the Constitution and the people supersedes the ideologies of their leadership. They must know that resisting an authoritarian government at home is equally important to fighting a foreign aggressor on the battlefield."
"The American soldier must rise above the socialization that tells them authority should always by obeyed without question. Rank should be respected but never blindly obeyed."
Watada went on to say "Mark Twain once remarked 'Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country...' By this, each and every American soldier, marine, airman, and sailor is responsible for their choices and actions. The freedom to choose is only one that we can deny ourselves."
He reminded the veterans that "The oath we take swears allegiance not to one man but to a document of principles and laws designed to protect the people. Enlisting in the military does not relinquish one's right to seek the truth-neither does it excuse one from rational thought nor the ability to distinguish between right and wrong. 'I was only following orders' is never an excuse."
There is not one superfluous word in that above excerpted speech. What this country needs are more people like Lt. Watada instead of the troops who, in the words of Colin Powell, are in Iraq to "apply state violence."
From the Op-Ed:
'Four years into our occupation, we have failed on every promise, while we have substituted Baath Party tyranny with a tyranny of Islamist, militia and criminal violence.'
We have to remember that the neocons are creating the chaos for the real reason of controlling the Middle East, namely the oil. And that this admin's friends and family are raping the US Treasury to fund this military fiasco.
Arrrgghhhh! I want my country back from these thieving, conniving liars!!
myiq2xu @ 2:
Said safely from the comfort and safety of your own home. Brave man. Why not enlsit?
Donaldd @ 17:
When the paid "expert" advisors (safely at home with nice paycheques) are all lying, who you gonna trust? Men that have been there or political opportunists?
kdjid @ 41:
Old testament, which has nothing to do with christianity.
Besides, I have a higher standard.
The are killers.
You don't get it. In the Neocon's bizzorro world eight days in Iraq qualifies you as an expert.
Six months from now when everyone realizes that they've been had by the Bush/Petraeus dog and pony show, someone will dig up that editorial again and then it'll get the attention it deserves. The effect of these dog and pony shows is usually short lived. Reality has it's way of catching up. The best way to deal with these things is to point out what fools folks were when they bought into the deception the first time.
"Flash forward a few weeks. A couple of days ago, the NYT also published an op-ed from seven infantrymen and noncommissioned officers with the 82nd Airborne Division, who will soon be returning home frustrated and jaded. The piece, “The War as We Saw It,” was a sweeping condemnation of everything we’ve heard of late from the Kristol-McCain-Lieberman-O’Hanlon-Pollack crowd."
For their truth telling these 7 American patriots/soldiers better prepare themselves for a severe swiftboating from the combat dodging chickenhawks.
I know I heard the op-ed mentioned on Tucker and Hardball and I'm pretty sure they brought it up on Olberman. So I think the premise here is wrong. CNN hid it but MSNBC didn't.
You'd think that someone would start asking why the Pentagon is spending so many taxpayer dollars on these all expense paid vacations to Iraq. Everyone from think tank analysts to Congressmen to journalists are being taken on guided tours of whatever the military wants them to see. Obviously this is a full court press by the administration to alter public opinion. You wonder if the op-eds and media appearances at trips end are part of the price of admission. It's very hard to be critical of someone when you've spent 8 days eating his food, drinking his wine and listening to his stories. After spending 8 days as an honored guest, it's just plain polite to send a thank you card.
Similarly, Charles Ferguson and his film No End In Sight, the subject of a Q&A here a couple of weeks back, have got virtually nothing in the corporate media. Why do they want to keep this f***ing war going?
kdjid @ 39:
Yes, will this really be the last time you spew discredited propaganda?
Good for these guys speaking the truth!! Of course, I would have been much more harse, critical, and totally unforgiving of the administration and the rest of their supporters. 82nd All the Way!!!
Iraq Veterans Against the War www.IVAW.org
The bobbleheads have to be very careful, they want to marginalize these soldiers, but they dont want to stir things up too much, because if people read this, they will realize how bullshit they really are.
Everyone in the US would do well to sit both ops side by side, read them and discuss which is written by patriots and which by PR flacks.
anon @ 14:
_____________________________________________________
Most of America (and the entire world for that matter) are starting to ignore you right wing butt lickers. Grow a set of balls, get used to it and stop whining. It's your destiny.
Start singing to yourself CCR'S "I see a bad moon rising."
Maybe we should let the paid experts fight the war, and the patriots write our editorials.
when the white house wants something to go mainstream it gets it going on talk radio, rove's most important media propaganda tool- uncontested repetition to tens of mlllions every day.
MSM motto: if you can't hate, don't tape...
Anon is trying to bait us into becoming the finger-pointing "baby Killers!" crowd again. It won't work. The killers are in DC, and we know it. Watada is right to do what he did. But blaming the troops for the slaughter is akin to what the minutemen racists do. They go after 12 million people who are the result of the problem. This creates more turmoil, and accomplishes nothing.
anon @ 32:
You've got Shillary pegged, but what about Obama?
If you will take a look at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/, then scroll down to 'reality on the ground in Iraq" you will find some coverage.....but still not nearly enough.
It's my feeling that Keith Olbermann needs to step up to the plate and make Edward R Murrow proud. Tell MSNBC to stuff it---then go to Comedy Central and do a serious news show. Not everything on CC has to be straight comedy (although if dark humor counts, the show would fit right it) Stand up and tell America that you are supporting Ron Paul for President! Interview these brave troops who penned the article! Hell, Comedy Central's ratings would skyrocket----and Keith Olbermann would emerge historically as a great moral hero.
What say you, Keith?
Just sad.
Quagmirist @ 58:
Roseann Barr's?
If Baby Jesus fires an Uzi in the woods, how many terrorists will fall out of the trees?
I suggest everyone flood both the Chicken Hawks at comments@whitehouse.gov & vice-president@whitehouse.gov mailboxes w/ this message from the REAL soldiers they've sent off to die in their illegal, immoral invasion & occupation of Iraq. Not that either will read it, but We The People of this Once Great Nation have an obligation to take any means to convey our disgust with the regime that currently occupies the White House.
anon @ 33:
Would you rather they just shut up and follow orders? I mean, what the fuck do you want? They are killing people, so their aversion to killing people for no reason cannot be trusted!! Shut up and Kill more people!!!. I am very against this war, and would give my life gladly to end it, but do you know these 7 soldiers? have you read their files? Are they sons of well-to -do families, that are just sating their bloodlust? are they from poor families, trying their best to realize some version of the american dream, co-opted into this massacre? What do you know? The argument you are making has zero bearing on whether or not their opinion should influence anything.
Of course there are a few soldiers that have no aversion to murder. A larger portion that can get to that point with the stress they encounter in wartime, and the vast majority that will, in fact follow orders no matter what. I think we should do everything we can to support the type of independant thinking that led to this article. If it ever gets to the point that many conspiracy believers fear, US soldiers patrolling american streets in full gear and with guns, searching people, and shitting on the bill of rights, I sure as hell hope we have a lot more soldiers like this, that will at the very least TELL THE TRUTH. Basically, I guess my response to your post is that the truth is ALWAYS welcome and necessary, no matter whose mouth it comes out of. That being said, if they lied, fuckem. And either way, I did not mean to offend, have a great day!
If a powerful op-ed falls in the forest and nobody hears, it is because the account shines some light on the truth and therefore conflicts with the official narrative.
same reason that colbert got the run-around for his pres & press roast at the press club party. the op-ed pissed off everyone that has money. period.
(loves me some alliteration)
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