BA WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....somebody call the whambulance.........these guys are so full of crap...it's stinking up the place........as it ooozes out of their noses.

The loons are keeping this story alive to get the most out of it......How long did they swiftboat Kerry?4 months...6 months....this issue doesn't even come close.

But the Faux Noise Rethugs thought the Swift Boat --Kerry smear ads were OK. Hypocrite is the one word that most defines the Rethugs.

Yes, MoveOn made a mistake with that add, but how does their mistake compare to Bushs war in Iraq?
Go back to sleep Hume, we'll call you when you are needed...........never......

Too bad the FOX fucktards weren't this outraged when Gen Eric Shinseki was slimed by Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and more of their repulsive ilk when Shinseki claimed hundreds of thousands of US troops would be needed in Iraq

The link to George Lakoff's piece ain't working.

The MoveOn ad was genius.

Everytime the media say "General Petraeus," I hear "General Betray Us."

It's like that's what everyone is saying.

Am I the only one?

What gives me the right to question his integrity, Gulliani? The first amendment you fucking trollop. You should probably get more familiar with it before you continue your bid for the presidency of the country.

Thuglicks are the WORST. SHIT. EVER.

Where was Chris 'the Bitch' Wallace's outrage when George Dubya was running his despicable attack ads on the character of a fucking decorated Vietnam POW, John McCain, no less. These people are trash. A spade a spade, and these people are White. Fucking. Trash. Period.

Each time one of these instances come up, where someone has made a gaffe or taken the time to produce "hit" piece, the media needs to reference AND REPLAY George Bush's comedy piece that HE put together and rehearsed and had a crew produce. That was the comedy piece "Nope. No weapons of mass destruction under here.", as he jokingly showed slides of himself peeking under curtains in the oval office. Everyone in the audience laughed, even while at that moment our troops were being killed or maimed fighting a war which was now comedy fodder for the president who started it.

Where's the shame?

Where the hell are people's memories?

They are downright scared shitless whenever the grassroots stands up. The stench in that studio must be overwhelming. The camerapeople must have to put oil of wintergreen under their noses just to do their jobs.

xoites defends Constitution @ 14:

schwifty @ 12:

This is simply more evidence that above all, the ad served to strengthen the idiotic Republican meme that if you don't support the war, you don't support the troops. They can now point at the most prominent liberal PR outlet and say that liberals attack the loyalty of our men in uniform. Whether or not Petraeus is loyal, and to what, is totally beside the point. Moveon has handed a big slab of red meat to the Republicans, plain and simple.

I disagree. The Corporate Media will jump on ANYTHING that comes close to the truth and they will do it in concert. Why should we be cowed by their echo chamber?

The right question is why we should feed their echo chamber in the first place. Anyone surprised by this new "obsession" of fox news fails to understand that.

WWHHAWWW!

The only mistake is it should have run on September 13th... with a "Go to Moveon.org/betrayus.html" on it... With a point by point expose..... Gates had it right: it was despicable they ran it when they did... such a mistake - they blew the opportunity!
;o)

Why is that these people (Fox, Guiliani, etc.) think Petraeus or anyone else is above question or reproach? We got into this war because we were told that it was unpatriotic to question the president and his motives. Look where that has gotten us. The Democrats rolled over and played along, too. If we don't question everyone, Republican or Democrat and hold them to the truth, then we are just giving this country away to fascism and dictatorship (in other word Cheney-Bush).

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5662853583740403796&q=george+bus...

Here's the link to George's idea of civilized, respectful discourse. This is not a gaffe. he produced this presentation.

If I owned a television station I would show this video at the opening of every news cast. the president, in his own words, would have lost favor and support of his 28% two years ago.

"That's not just raising questions about the policy" - no, that's raising questions about whenther "an ass-kissing little chickenshit" (as Petraeus' commanding officer, Admiral Fallon, called him) can tell the truth to the American people.

After all, The Loyalty Administration picked him for a job where he does his own performance review: I think we have every reason to doubt his word when he uses statistics to speak in favor of the Administration's policy.

It's funny how the Turds forget.

Republican anti-war quotes from Kosovo conflict when Clinton was President. All of these should be repeated daily.

http://sacramentofordemocracy.org/?q=node/view/3116

I think Petraeus lied to the Congress and the People of the United States. He skewed the truth and misled the nation for political reasons. He betrayed us. He betrayed his troops.

There. I said it. It is not a question. It is a statement. It is an accusation.

It is common knowledge that the "war" in Iraq was a huge blunder: ill-conceived, based on lies and questionable motives, and mismanaged from its inception. There isn't a chance, there has never been a chance, and there will never be a chance for military "victory" in Iraq.

This is the fundamental truth of the situation in Iraq, and everybody knows it.

Petraeus knows this truth as well as anyone else (or he's freekin' insane), for him to paticipate in keeping the ruse going is ample reason to pillory him in the public square.

Deary me, could we have the Fox Crud Bunch just move on themselves? Perferable to another country. Better yet could they hide out in one of cheney's undisclosed locations, and never be heard from again.

AAAAh the swiftboaters don't like being swiftboated with the truth.

i don't know you guys. i sort of think that this sort of mess helps the liberal cause. rudi looks desparate, the dems aren't hurt by not denouncing an ad they had no part in, the move on ad gets seen by tons more people and move on gets a lot of new hits from the curious who might want to see what all the fuss is really about.

p.s. i forgot that the republicans are never held to any kind of standards about who speaks for them--'poison fed judges, frag people, so and so is a traitor, another is in bed with terrorists'

1)grab crotch 2) yell denounce this to republicans.

It is exactly the quality of Integrity that they completely lack. For them to be whining about integrity is complete and utter comedy, in its true form.

"The only thing worse than bad publicity is no publicity."

Where were these guys when Kerry was being swiftboated.

They hold no water now. They set the table. Actually they set the table several times over, not just with not denouncing the swiftboat ad, but by also forgetting how many generals were fired until Bush got to Petraeus.

That screams "lacky" doesn't it?

Radically Moderate @ 7:

Yes, MoveOn made a mistake with that add, but how does their mistake compare to Bushs war in Iraq?
Go back to sleep Hume, we'll call you when you are needed...........never......

Why exactly was the ad a mistake?

no ST at #13, some of are calling him General Chicken Shit Ass Kisser.

hmm is asskisser one word or is ass kisser two words, hyphenated?

The trouble with writing headlines is that people don't usually read the copy to appreciate the point that's trying to be made...hell, I'll admit that I haven't read all of the ad but I guarantee you that their intent was to say that an otherwise honorable military man...a man that obviously possesses a higher than expected intellect...a man one would hope would put principle above partisanship (don't remind me about Colin Powell, please) has, in fact, sold his soul to bushco for the job. For the opportunity to make a name for himself in the belief that he just might decide to run for office one of these days. The point being that here's a man that obviously knows better but is willing to sacrifice his troops just so he can cover geedubya's and dickless cheney's asses for another year or so - so what if they referred to it as a 'betrayal' - with a name like that, whatinhell did you expect?...and of course politicians ran like rats from the issue knowing MSM would cast them as against the troops. As was said elsewhere, his own boss called him a kissass - maybe that's the description MoveOn should have used.

Jenny'O @ 48:

no ST at #13, some of are calling him General Chicken Shit Ass Kisser.

hmm is asskisser one word or is ass kisser two words, hyphenated?

Reread this to find out who called him that:

anwaya @ 29:

"That's not just raising questions about the policy" - no, that's raising questions about whenther "an ass-kissing little chickenshit" (as Petraeus' commanding officer, Admiral Fallon, called him) can tell the truth to the American people.

After all, The Loyalty Administration picked him for a job where he does his own performance review: I think we have every reason to doubt his word when he uses statistics to speak in favor of the Administration's policy.

xoites defends Constitution @ 53:

Ron @ 49:

xoites defends Constitution @ 42:

"The only thing worse than bad publicity is no publicity."

It doesn't matter what any progressive organization has to say. Faux news will clip, crop or just plain lie about what was said anyway. We all know it is a propaganda outlet. It is not a news channel.

Exactly, so why should we help them by wringing our hands over a Move On ad that, if you bother to read it, seems quite accurate?

My thoughts also.

Fox has only one goal. Keep repeating the same thing over and over again.

It's called brainwashing.

Question for FAUXNOIZ and their moronic audience: Were we not told before General Betraus spoke that he would not be writing his report and that the WH would at least put their dirty, thug paws on his report? Is Betrayus bypassing his chain of command, which includes Admiral Fallon (sp)?
Would it be acceptable if Moveon.org was Swiftboating a decorated veteran?

It is so sad that these puppet cowards carry water for these crooks in this crime family. Hey morons, quit attacking citizens for exercising free speech and go after the thugs in this crime family that is stealing, lying, and destroying our country. Why do you assholes hate America. Now excuse me while send some money to Moveon.org.

Did either one of those guys look like they completely believed what they were saying?

In the future, these should be done under polygraph. Don't think either one could pull it off.

rougy @ 62:

I joined MoveOn.org as a result of that ad.

And if John McCain we to tell me to my face that I should be thrown out of the country for doing so, he's in for a little surprise.

Actually, that reminds me. Why is the Corporate Media not screaming about HIS remarks?

The ad doesn't say that General Petraeus is a Betrayer, it only merely ask the question.

I learn this from FOX news style attack.

The obvious rebuttal to claims that the ad smears General Petraeus is that the ad's headline is a QUESTION, not an accusation. Note the "or" in the middle of the sentence and the question mark at the end. Fox News may us the "Cavuto" to disguise a smear as a statement, but that doesn't mean everyone does it. The "betray us" phrase is just a clever word-play to draw the attention of the reader to the ad. Surely the Fox pundits know how advertising works. Of course they know, they're just catapulting the propaganda. Juan Williams could have done a much better job.

OK,
Put me on with Wallace or Britney Hume. They could cry some more when I tell them that our own President and their own cheer leading has for some time put my credibility and patriotism in question at their specific attacks as pro Bush supporters. Where is the denouncing of what Bush did to McCain in the republican Presidential primary between them two? Then the John Kerry Swift Boaters (527) that FOX and hateful friends went out of their way to provide media to.

And what of Bush, Rummy, Cheney whacking of Generals that do not read the President's prepared report? What of their honor? What of the fired U.S. Atty's that were smeared by this White House? David Inglasias that was accused of absenteeism. When his absences were in fact Military reserve Duty?

I plan on donating to Moveon now that they feel so superior somehow that they do not stoop lower into the slime than anyone we have ever seen in recent history.

How about Ann Coulter, Rush, Hannity, Ingrahm, Boorts and the like of idiotic partisan liars that is spewed everyday into the American public?

America knows that Cheney and Rove with Scooters help outed a CIA operative for revenge of a critic instead of presenting the facts in an up front respectful manner to the American public. Where is your credibility Mr Republican Brit Hume? Where was your tough questions of Bush, Petraeus, Crocker et al? matter of fact the Fox partisan Opinion network that is advertised as "News" has its credibility problems........

I wish Biden would of said to the effect:
descent
I would have made dissenting Ad differently. Yet this goes to show you that the American public is fed up with this Adm and its tactics Karl Rove freely impugned on the nation. The sentiment is reflective of an American Public that is not being listened to and Brit, You and FOX are part of that deaf ear and part of the Partisan problem that not only escalates this but encourages it.

Why didn't FOX ask Republicans to publicly shun the Swift Boaters? And why didn't the Republican go their GOP media (FOX) and speak out then. It is difficult for me to see anyone willing to step out and help republicans for what they are reaping. This is what they have sown................

rougy @ 62:

I joined MoveOn.org as a result of that ad.

And if John McCain we to tell me to my face that I should be thrown out of the country for doing so, he's in for a little surprise.

This is exactly what I predicted - that some will actually read the ad - largely as a result of wingnut fulminations, and Move-on will gain as a result. If there is nothing for those a**holes to be outraged about, they'll make something up. Time to get out the brass knucks!!

IrresistibleB1tch @ 72:

notice how their graphics never include the bottom part, with the explanation? is Fox afraid that their people might actually *gasp* READ the ad?

Of course!

The U.S. Military/Government did not protect us on Nine Eleven, they were busy playing war games. The U.S. Military/Government are not protecting and defending the U.S. Constitution. They are not making us safer by their genocide in Iraq with over a million Iraqis dead, 4 million refugees, the nation of Iraq has been destroyed. Peace or Revolution. Forget Impeachment or Censure. And for the 'news' whores propagandizing this lost war of conquest on the tubes, I hope they are someday brought to justice. V

Framing the Debate

“The majority of American’s think this war is failed, that they were lied into it, and that the policies of this Administration need to change. How do you answer that?”
“General Patraeus is HONERABLE!”
“Very good. Anbar province hasn’t been the safe-haven the General said it was. Should we reexamine the effectiveness of the Surge along the original timetables now?”
“Are you calling the General a LIAR? Don’t question his integrality – he is a SOLDIER doing his DUTY!”
“Thank you. Now that the military has failed almost every one of the Benchmarks for continued funding, should we now defund the occupation?”
“The GENERAL NEEDS THAT MONEY FOR HIS TROOPS! Don’t question THE GENERAL! He’s a GENERAL, he knows what he needs!”

It is getting near the time where this nation should split. There is simply NO WAY the anti-war crowd here will EVER co-exist in politics with the right-wing of this nation. The right wing are illogical war-prone misguided patriots who misconstrue fighting a war with defending the nation. They see fighting ANY WAR, that the president picks, as patriotism. I, being anti-war equate WAR with a bankrupt philosophy and a sign of a WEAK leader who either does not possess the skills of diplomacy, or does not choose to resolve differences in a peaceful manner. In the current case, it is apparent to me that bush has declared war upon me and the anti-war crowd. I have NO respect for him or his followers.

Within the American right, like any other fundamentalist cult, the struggle for position and power among the leadership is waged through the calculated inducement of mass hysteria, purges, witch hunts and the persecution of heretics and heathens. To have died in service to your country provides no dispensation from the inquisitors if your words questioned the infallibility of their doctrines.

So now Petraeus wants the British to move their troops to the Iranian border. Supposedly it's to interdict smuggling, but if we take any kind of military action ageist Iran, guess who gets the retaliation first. I guess that's one way to get a reluctant ally involved in yet another ill-advised war. Since we're outta troops this is one way to get Britain to loan us a few.

I seem to recall a bunch of commentary after Colin Powell's presentation to the UN that only a fool or a traitor could still be unpersuaded of the need to attack Iraq. Coupled with the continued onslaught of lies and disinformation emanating from the White House, it's no wonder Petraeus' testimony might be questioned. Of course, the last six months have seen a propaganda assault on the public portraying Petraeus as some sort of "Super General' who was the best and brightest the military had to offer with a reputation for success and integrity. Makes me wonder why he wasn't in charge from the beginning.

Carmikl @ 83:

So now Petraeus wants the British to move their troops to the Iranian border. Supposedly it's to interdict smuggling, but if we take any kind of military action ageist Iran, guess who gets the retaliation first. I guess that's one way to get a reluctant ally involved in yet another ill-advised war. Since we're outta troops this is one way to get Britain to loan us a few.

Wants to? Military has already decided to set up a base less than 5 miles from the Iranian border -- Proxy war could soon turn to direct conflict, analysts warn.

fake news corp only hires journalistic rejects suffering from penis envy of their wives.

OK. Now I've watched. What a bunch of whiners. Billy boy assassinates people all the time, (after he cuts their mic.) Is Patreaus honourable. Maybe. But as long as he's shilling for Bush I would question that honour.

Awwww Bwit Hyume doesn't wike de mean people. Waaaaaa

If a Democrat had said that "troop deaths were a small price to pay", Fox "News" would have flogged that all week long, every ten minutes too.
But it wasn't a Democrat who said it. It was Repub John Boner of L. A. Tans who said it, so Fox "News" was silent.
More proof that Fox "News" is an organ of the Repub party and is nothing but a free 24/7/365 campaign commercial. An obvious FEC violation.
Fox "News" should have to register as an advocacy group, just like MoveOn.org does.
That's what MoveOn's response should be to Fox "News" criticism, that Fox "News" should be registered as a a 501(c)(4) organization.

ST @ 13:

The MoveOn ad was genius.

Everytime the media say "General Petraeus," I hear "General Betray Us."

It's like that's what everyone is saying.

Am I the only one?

no you are NOT the only one. eventually they will have to acknowledge the 70+% of america that opposes the war and is tired of the lies.

Under their skin? Hardly. Great distraction? Definitely. C'mon, this has been the Republican tactic for years, avoiding the merits of an issue by picking some related "wrongdoing" by Democrats and inflating its importance, obscuring the underlying issue. Remember back in 1997 when Boehner, Delay, Armey, Gingrich and Paxson held an illegal conference call to coordinate the response to the ethics charges against Gingrich. The call, some participants in which were on cellular phones, was intercepted by a couple who reported it. When news got out, the Republicans immediately (and quite successfully) turned the issue into those bad people who intercepted a call, rather than dealing with the issue of the call's substance and its lack of legality.

Isn't that what the invasion of Iraq was designed to do?

It's very strange how this general came to be regarded a someone whose opinion is completely unassailable. We'd love to have someone do the job and rise above politics, but as we've seen for the past 7 years everything with this administration revolves around politics. The fact remains that Gen Petraeus wouldn't be where he is if he wasn't willing to toe the line. I don't know if that says anything about his character; he might actually believe all this stuff. But his opinion wasn't in line with the administration and he refused to play along he would be out. They probably wouldn't let him testify before Congress even.

The gloves are off. You may have a little more war than you bargained for.

It is the Bush supporters who show contempt for the truth and the troops. Attacking an ad is ridiculous compared to what they are doing. It is a deliberate attempt to distract attention from their actions. For further comment on Iraq see
randomabsurdities.wordpress.com

106 Pine Nut, NC

I’m simply loving the fact that we’ve got you hoodwinked.

http://www.desertpride.com/catalog/images/ki665.jpg

And where was the outrage when the righties were attacking John Kerry (a decorated war veteran who lead troops in combat), Max Cleland (another decorated war veteran and triple amputee), and even their very own John McCain, whose mental faculties were questioned and who was essentially accused of having an illegitimate black child? MoveOn, as do all Americans, have good reason to question the Patraeus report given the history of this administration. And the truth is, the report cherry-picked and did in fact mislead. The bottom line is, the MoveOn ad's have actually been factually accurate. Obviously, Fox and all the rightie sycophants are going to exploit this as much as possible. It's what they do, especially since they have nothing else. Afterall, they're the only ones who are allowed to accuse others of being dishonest or unpatriotic. Of course, the MSM doesn't bother to point out that Bush shamelessly and cowardly hides behind his generals expecting them to promote his policies. Look what he did to Collin Powell's reputation.