<I>Habeas</i> Restoration Act Fails Cloture
Let's be clear and unvarnished...44 of our Senators hate the Constitution and basic civil rights. They do not believe in the fundamental right of due process. RestoreHabeas.org has the breakdown.
Absolutely unacceptable. With all the horrors that we hear about Hamdan, about suicides, about innocent people rounded up for bounties and left to rot in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib, it is absolutely immoral that 44 senators feel that entrusting basic civil rights of any person to the Bush administration is the way to go.
Senator Dodd has not given up the fight:
"America's moral standing, and with it the security of the United States, suffered another setback today, atop a pile of setbacks that has accumulated over the past six years. The outcome of this vote is both symbolic and tragic. Each of us in the Senate faced a decision either to cast a vote in favor of helping to restore America's reputation in the world, or to help dig deeper the hole of utter disrespect for the rule of law that the Bush Administration has created. Unfortunately, too many of my colleagues chose the latter, and my disappointment runs deep. But I will not rest my case with this vote. Instead, this defeat will only deepen my resolve to restore the rule of law and with it American security, for far too much is at stake - for every American - to simply give up the fight."
Am I in an f'ing nightmare? E
first
I am past outrage. I have been for about 2 months. The spineless dems, the inhuman rethugs. The media doesn't cover any of it, and most of my friends have no idea any of this is going on.
Whatever. :(
ok 2nd..damn slow refresh rates.
Anyways..lets recap the past 2 days shall we?
Monday a kid gets tackled by 6 cops, pinned down and tazered, for asking questions at a public forum.
Today, 44 Senators decide that our Constitution is meaningless, and move us one step closer to a full police state.
Woohoo, and its only Wednesday!
Maybe by Friday we'll get to check out those nifty supermax prisons Halliburton has been building in the upper Northwest!!!
Dave in PA @ 3:
at least no democrats were in the no column this time.
Fuck the filibuster. Let them stand there and read "War and Peace" for all I care. Put them under the spotlight on the news every night defending their position.
Or do I just not understand how a filibuster works?
Consumer @ 4:
I'm up here in the Okanogan Highlands, right in the area of those "detention centers." They'd better get us all rounded up soon. It's starting to get cold and we'll all need a chance to get set up and settled in before the real winter hits. Gets pretty cold up here, you folks from the south are going to want to bring an extra blanket or two. See ya' there.
We didn't gut the constitution and bring out the military to fight the mob. All terrorists are is a mob.
ALL the senators that do not support habeas corpus should be arrested as enemy combattants. let them think in a cell without the right of this constitutional right.
If the Dems can't exploit this obvious breach of trust, well I don't know what.
The Dems should run video of Republican Presidential candidate Ron Paul
admonishing his fellow Rep. who have supported this unconstitutional legislation
with the byline "Remember the good old days of real conservatism?"
...
Does anyone remember what the breakdown vote was to rescind Habeas? So much crap flies every single day, I can't keep track. So the Dems can't get it back, which one of them voted to give it up in the first place? I'm with Dave in PA, add to that most of my family as well. Torches and Pitchforks to the gates. I see no other way at this point.
The GOP platform for the next election must now include a statement invalidating the Bill of Rights. Because that's exactly what this breakdown says.
My ACLU membership has lapsed. They'll get my check by the weekend.
Are these Republicans so short-sighted that they don't see how this will play out in the long term, will hurt America and diminish the high moral standing we have enjoyed in the eyes of the world for at least the past 100 years? Instead, like lemmings, they give in to the "sage" request of George W. Bush, Jr. who, by all accounts, has the smarts of a high school drop-out.
I guess they must let their children (assuming they have kids - did they also need Bush to tell them how to procreate?) decide what TV shows to watch, when to go to bed and how much candy they can eat every day. Geez.
A "free" America , at least the one we all grew up in , and loved , , , is DEAD , in MY experience . Period .
It will take 50 years to reverse ( IF possible ) the infection known as " Bushit Imperialism " . I will be DEAD by then , so , "America" no longer exists , , ,
And until "AmeriKans" and our Media Whores care MORE for RESTORING true democracy than they do for O -"F"ing -J ,
F*CK IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Usama (why they changed the spelling, Usa......) himself said that since America is a democracy, and people can vote for their true representatives, that the American population is guilty if their government wages war, sanctions that kill Muslims, etc.
This vote is proof of that. Unfortunately.
Wtf is with Leiberman ???? You'd think this one he could vote yes on...Also he voted no on the Webb amendment...
Since nothing is getting done anyway, why don't the Dems throw this whiney ass Zell out of every committee he's on. He's friggin toxic.
I think if we're going to be even more clear and unvarnished, we'd have to say: 44 of our senators hate America!
Blackwater and Bushes army
We're finally on our own
What key event will be the turning point for us here in the US? More and more people seem to be becoming outraged, so WHEN will the tipping point be? Will it be something like Blackwater offing a bunch of peaceful protesters? Return of the draft? Total collapse of the US stock market? Worldwide environmental disasters? Halliburton-owned concentration camps?
Bush calls for expansion of spy law
AP
FORT MEADE, Md. - President Bush said Wednesday he wants Congress to expand and make permanent a law that temporarily gives the government more power to eavesdrop without warrants on suspected foreign terrorists.
Uh duh sure Mr. Preznit~! How much duh money ya want! Will it be enough?
Indigowatcher @ 19:
All of the above at the rate things are disintegrating.
They didn't vote on restoring habeas...they voted on whether to end the republican filibuster of the bill to restore habeas. Where are the Dems, screaming that the republicans wouldn't allow "an up or down vote"? For the last several years, we heard that seven times a week or more.
As long as we let them frame the question, we lose and we deserve to.
Money, get back.
I'm all right jack keep your hands off of my stack.
http://bagnewsnotes.typepad.com/bagnews/images/Bush-Motorcade-Policeman.jpg
Fascist regime takes another bite out of the US Constitution
Theres that little scumbag Lieberman again:right in there with his rightwing friends.Just.shameless.
L.A. Confidential @ 23:
He ain't pointing that machine gun at Iraqi Isurgents folks.
OK YOU STUPID AMERICANS !!!!
The Dems are not enough in the majority. What are you going to about the next time you vote?
Senators Who Voted No & Are Up for Reelection in 2008
Alexander, Lamar (R-TN)
Allard, Wayne (R-CO)
Cochran, Thad (R-MS)
Coleman, Norm (R-MN)
Collins, Susan M. (R-ME)
Cornyn, John (R-TX)
Dole, Elizabeth (R-NC)
Domenici, Pete V. (R-NM)
Enzi, Michael B. (R-WY)
Graham, Lindsey (R-SC)
Inhofe, James M. (R-OK)
McConnell, Mitch (R-KY)
Roberts, Pat (R-KS)
Sessions, Jeff (R-AL)
Stevens, Ted (R-AK)
THE TRUTH...
was outlined on Hardball tonight.
At the end of the program (I'm sorry that I can't name who it was that put this idea forward, but I think it's dead-on) one of Chris's debate panel suggested that the Republican Reps and Senators are going to stick with the president like bugs on shit until they get past their national Convention.
Once their ultra-conservative "base" is SATISFIED with their nominee for president... THEN the politicians in the party will start running for doors... and start voting with the Democrats... SO THEY CAN PROTECT THEIR CHANCES OF SUCCESS IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.
Me and my horse... we BOTH think this passes the SMELL TEST... and it stinks to high heaven. They will let as many troops AS NECESSARY die in Iraq just so they can get past their convention unscathed in the eyes of the religious right... and get another chance for re-election by FLIP-FLOPPING as much as they have to to win tight races at home.
The so called US republic has been decomposing for several years, maybe decades. Today, I do not even hear lip service paid to the ideals the US was founded upon.
Those unexceptional filth-bucket-billionaires and their political arm (the three branches of the US federal government), most state and municipal governments (those taken over by religious lunatics and their imaginary friends), the yellow fourth estate, and all the wussy pant-wetters who voted (twice) to send psychopathic mercenaries to lash out at the entire Middle-East region deserve the worst that could happen to them. After all, they do seem so eager for their comeuppance. I'll be sure to tune in for it if they attack Iran.
Last Halloween, I went as the ghost of habeus corpus. Just today my daughter asked me what I was going to dress up as this year...
Karen @ 28:
Susan Collins is going DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God Damned her flea ridden crotch!!!!
exitstan @ 30:
It's finished. Whens the last time you heard any candidate talk about a domestic growth plan?
Karen @ 28:
Ok people: you know who to vote out of office next year. Let's not forget.
Well I guess now that we've all screwed ourselves we have an obligation to keep screwing ourselves.
Not only do 44 Senators hate our constitution and our freedoms, add a couple more Senators who also hate our troops (by not giving them time off to rest from their battles) and then condemn those who demand our troops be brought home, or worse, mock the service of their colleagues who did serve, while they hid behind five deferments, went AWOL and was never charged, or hid behind their wives' skirts and got her pregnant on purpose to make damned sure they didn't have to suit up.
There is nothing they can say that justifies their vote. And if any of them are up for re-election in 2008, their opponents better hang these votes around their necks like a damned anvil and drown them in their own vile of shyt.
F***ing obstructionist Repugs!
Rather Sues CBS For 70 Million: Network Made Me "A Scapegoat...To Pacify The White House"
I want a list of those that voted against restoring the constitution!
I think they're voting no just because the Dems are voting yes. None of these idiots are actually thinking about what they're voting for. They're like 3rd graders.
Let's all say it together folks - the GOP FILIBUSTERED this bill. Can we all use that word??
Let's try it again:
FIL-I-BUSTER.
That wasn't so hard now was it?
SO WHY THE F*CK CAN'T THE EDITORS OF THESE STORIES USE THAT WORD?? They didn't seem to have any trouble using it ad-FUCKING-nauseum when the Democrats used it to block judges, did they?
Let's all say it together, class:
FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER.
FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER.
FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER. FILIBUSTER.
JESUS F*CKING CHRIST. IS IT SO F*CKING HARD TO CALL A F*CKING SPADE A F*CKING SPADE????
Chicken Little - NOT!! @ 7:
be ok if i dont attend , thats what my rifel and 45 was bought for!
Let's see: Vitter, Craig and Stevens are already damaged goods from scandals. And Warner is retiring. That's the 4 votes short...
But, we'll probably get 4 more traitors to the Constitution to replace them...
Nicole:
"Let’s be clear and unvarnished…44 of our Senators hate the Constitution and basic civil rights."
Since when did any politician except Paul even MENTION the Constitution EVER??? Let me be clear. Both the GOP AND democrats have plenty of anti-Constitution members.
If the Constitution is what worries you, why don't you ever have supportive words for the only candidate who even speaks of the Constitution? Of course it is tough to do since he happens to be NAMED a republican, but everyone knows he isn't.
Don't you think that by ignoring him you are contributing to the general problem? Each one of us can make a difference, but if we expect others to make a difference because of selfish or political affiliation reasons, then nothing will get better.
I think if C&L wants politicians to support the Constitution, then it should report stories on those who support it, no? I mean, wouldn't that be the most effective way of getting the message out there?
dear sitemonitos,
senator john conryn(?) of texas set up a bill disagreeing with the moveon general patreaus ad. his bill would talk about how moveon was wrong when they chose to put the ad up. dick durbin counter that by saying that if the senate is to vote on the bill, will the senator from texas allow on an amendment that apologize to john kerry in 2004 when he was attack by the swift vote for truth, a texas base group.
than senator barbara boxer said she also wants to include max cleveland and a general that was against the invasion who was call treasoneous to be include in the bill too. senator cornyn anwser by saying that general patreaus was not running for public office and kerry and cleveland was, so it was okay to smear kerry and cleveland.
so, yes, if they want to go into the past and bring this issue up, they should bring up their own bill. but no, he will not add amendment into the bill that critize moveon ad about the general patreaus.
it was just on cspan, and i thought that people of crooks and liars might enjoy it.
Divorced one like Bush @ 8:
So true.
I am so angry and pissed at this government that my heart is racing & my blood pressure is jacked up. So, I would like to just state the inverse of what I feel right now so I don't kill my own soul and destroy myself with rage. So, here it is. Love and light to all of my fellow libs, progressives, dems, and anyone reading this thread. And.......................the rest of the world too.
Johnny Lydon stated in a Public Image song that anger is an energy. So, I need to figure out how to channel that energy into something constructive. I really am quite pissed at our country. Disappointed falls short of the mark in explanation. I need to get calm before I start calling anyone in government to voice my opinion, so great is my outrage. All that I've read and heard over the last couple of days has wound me up tighter than an eight-day clock. I've been here with you guys reading along, but the recent events have pissed me off so much that haven't been able to come up with anything nearing civility to enter into the comments until now. I thank the creator for my schnauzer, she's the closest thing to God on earth. Her ability to calm me has allowed me to make this post without advocating the same hate in return as we hear from the opposition. I have been and will be here reading and hanging out with y'all but it hurts to write and is difficult to do through tears. The America of my youth is dead.
Whats with these freaking people they feel things crawling all over their skin while debating bills and see worms crawling out of their big mac at them in the congressional cafeteria or something?
Ludicrous
Consumer @ 4:
Don't forget about the Bin Laden trades, due to expire this Friday...
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/8/30/94850/6571
Consumer @ 4:
All these important Bills are being preempted with O.J. rubbery coverage.
Im in the northwest, where is this super prison?
DAvid @ 41:
Here is how the Democrats should be framing the debate:
The Republicans will not let us vote! The American people voted in a new Congress in 2006, so the Republicans way to keep screwing the American people is to not let that new Congress vote. That's right. They won't let us vote. The Democrats had a majority to restore habeas corpus, but the Republicans wouldn't let Congress vote on the issue. Democrats had a majority to (insert issue here), but the Republicans stopped the vote. That's right. It's procedure called a filibuster, but all you need to know is this: Whenever the Democrats wanted to represent the people, the Republicans wouldn't let Congress vote. You voted in people to represent you in Congress. Their job is to vote the way you told them to. And they would have, but the Republicans wouldn't let us vote in the first place. See that man/woman, I'm running against? He wants to make sure your voice doesn't get heard. Because if he has his way, there won't be any votes.
I hate Voinovich (I call him Son-of-a-vich). I'm going to do all I can to unseat that unresponsive bastard.
L.A. Confidential @ 26:
That ain't a machine gun. For one thing, the barrel is very wide, and second there's a circular magazine between his two hands. It looks like a grenade launcher... but assuming that he isn't using explosive/incendiary grenades, it's probably a tear-gas grenade launcher.
Why are the Republicans opposed to letting the detainees have their day in court?
PurplePatriot @ 6:
No, that's it alright! The Dems just have to summon up the balls to stand up to it. They have to be willing to put the Repugs in that spotlight and frame the coverage before the GOP does.
bro @ 44:
Chris Dodd talks about the Constitution regularly. Russ Feingold talks about the Constitution regularly. Dennis Kucinich talks about the Constitution regularly. Howard Dean talks about the Constitution regularly. And even Arlen Specter talks about the Constitution regularly.
Others do to. Paul is not the only one. Moreover, Paul does get coverage on C&L when he defends the Constitution. He's praised for it. And there are also people here who point out the myriad disagreements they have with Paul.
I point this out as a regular advocate for libertarians and progressives to work together, not a knee-jerk anti-Paul poster. Though I do have plenty of problems with Paul's interpretation of the Constitution, and think he is wrong more than I think he is correct.
Time to strip them of legislative immunity. They've abused it.
The public faces the threat of detention and searches without warrants. No reason to recognize Members of Congress' "right" to be above the law.
Throw them in jail. Then deny them Habeas. Then they might change their mind. Gear up for some grand jury indictments, and detentions without chance to appear before any court.
Or would that be mean? Do it anyway.
Hey, all the Republicans did was block the "special rights for terrorists" bill. That's good for America, right?
It's about the framing.
The Democrats and Republicans are useless on this one. I think the Libertarians need to step up (and no, I'm no Libertarian...taxation is not theft and traffic laws ought not be voluntary guidelines.)
BUT, they're slant on this issue is spot on AND they have credibility with Republican-leaning voters, so...
Here's the ad to run in the red states: "Do you think that president Hillary Clinton should have the right to arrest anyone she wants without any oversight or review? Because that's the power your Senator just voted to give her."
Chicken Little - NOT!! @ 7:
Don't worry, if Blackwater has to leave Iraq I'm sure that Bush and Cheney will make them available for home duty like they did in NOLA!
FastMovingCloud @ 55:
Yep... as governor, he was the first of a bandit of Republicans to turn Ohio from one of the top ten states in education and economy to the "Mississippi of the North" it is today.
The good thing about being in the majority is being able to control the agenda and force the vote. 6 senators away from a GOP filibuster proof majority and this vote brought us one step closer to that goal. Get these sorry Republican SOBs on record for being against the American people and come 2008 the Republics can look forward to another thumpin at the polls.
JasonS @ 61:
Join us, Jason? :)
Kay @ 11:
Here 'tis: The Breakdown
AConfederacyofDunces @ 10:
Don't hold your breath waiting for the Dems to stategically exploit anything perpetrated by The Republican Crime Syndicate. It takes strength and conviction. Thats something this current crop of Democratic leaders lack.
Blue Buddha @ 56:
They could also be concussive grenades... while those don't do much explosive damage, they cause temporary blindness and deafness that's nasty. :(
Congress never had any constitutional authority to suspend the writ of habeas corpus to begin with. Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution permits such action only in the event of foreign invasion or armed insurrection. Every single one of these sons of bitches who voted for the Military Commissions Act or who has just voted not to restore the writ has broken the oath of allegiance to serve, protect and defend the constitution. Any such a person is no patriot and is unfit to serve in any office of public trust.
Yeah.. The Greedy Old Perverts can Filibuster... but we (Dems) can't even get a simple, and obvious human right that has been THE precedent of human rights for 80% of the last 1000 years...
Its fucking PATHETIC.
Copied with apologies from blumeme.com
The Senate just rejected the restoration of habeas corpus. 43 Senators voted against the Constitution. 43 rejected a doctrine that predates our late, lamented republic by at least a century.
To be fair, no Democrat voted the wrong way. (Joe Lieberman voted the wrong way, but he isn't even a DINO anymore.) But they have gone along with a complete re-writing of the rules of the road. If the majority needs 60 votes to get its way in the Senate, then how on earth did the Republicans get their way these last few years? They never had 60 seats. No, the Dems are now culpable, too. They allowed FISA to be gutted. They allow Iraq to fester. They surrendered the big game without firing a shot.
Here's my metaphor for the day:
The Constitution stood, bound and blindfolded, before Bush's firing squad. The call to the Democratic cavalry went out. And, lo, the cavalry rode in, at the very last minute... and shot the prisoner themselves.
I used to take the Constitution for granted, and I argued that the Bill of Rights was what really mattered, and what was most endangered. I was wrong, and it is all gone now.
I have always had some sympathy for for the libertarian viewpoint, but felt it was a viewpoint without a meaningful constituency. Now our very founding principles fall into that same category -- hardly anybody who matters gives a damn about the real intent of the framers anymore.
Don't like my metaphor? Try this one from a commenter @ Greenwald's place:
Democracy in the USA right now is in a similar condition to Norman Bates’s mother - a corpse dressed up and sat in a rocking chair in the basement, while a madman runs the family business upstairs.
No sunshine from me.
posted by bluememe at 9/19/2007
rduke @ 70:
With all of those Babylonian artifacts that disappeared after the fall of Iraq, and probably wound up as decor in Bush's top contributors' offices, maybe they want to restore Hammurabi's Code. "Eye for an eye" anyone?
Consumer @ 2:
WHAT IN THE HECK IS THIS DUMB THING ABOUT? IT'S ALWAYS THERE IN YOUR FACE. EITHER SAY SOMETHING OR GO AWAY PLEASE.
motorfingaz @ 67:
Convict a rich old white man without granting him Habeas Corpus rights and they'll turn around really fucking quick, I guarantee it.
Email them, call them, let them know they won't be reelected.
Old bastards one and all.
Cat Atomic @ 75:
I keep suggesting that whenever a wingnut makes a physical threat in public against a person or specific group (which must happen at least once a week), that we should take steps to register their name on the No Fly List. According to the Patriot Act, such threats will land you on that list, and once one of them finds out that they got there, believe me, they'll be screaming to repeal the Patriot Act.
Back in the days before Democrats regained control of the Senate, "up or down vote" was a favorite GOP talking point. Now twice in a single day, Senate Republicans resorted to the filibuster to the thwart the will of the American people.
For more, see:
"GOP: No Up or Down Vote on Iraq, Torture."
Oddly enough, I watched NBC Nightly News this evening and this story was conspicuously missing.
Will wonders never cease.
...
AConfederacyofDunces @ 79:
But OJ acting like an idiot and Britney's vagina are far more important news stories!
Stash, thank you, thank you. I so appreciate your time.
How much more out of touch with the American people can Republicans get? WTF is wrong with these people? Are they really that afraid of this administration? What a bunch of pussies! They don't have an original thought between them all!
If Dems somehow manage to blow the '08 election, I may leave the country. Republicant's have fucked up so badly that it would be hard to believe that they could retain the WH; however, I know enough to NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the American people in an election.
Amazing..........
Corpus Constitution.
Perhaps you should just leave and then join the allies in "liberating" the US later.
See how the fascists left there like occupation and raping of resources.
This underlines a simple fact that many of us have known for some time. The Republicans are no longer a political party, they are a criminal conspiracy. They've all taken oaths to uphold and defend the Constitution. What other blood oaths have they taken, and to whom?
Habeas Corpus.
Habeas Corpus? “…a legal action, or writ, through which a person can seek relief from unlawful detention.”
Anyone have a problem with Habeas Corpus? It seems that 43 Repugnican Senators plus one independent A__hole from Connecticut do.
Thanks to these Republican Senators for stepping forward and standing up for the Constitution of the United States of America.
Olympia Snowe, Republican Senator from Maine,
Richard Lugar, Republican Senator from Indiana,
Chuck Hagel, Republican Senator from Nebraska,
John Sununu, Republican Senator from New Hampshire,
Gordon Smith, Republican Senator from Oregon,
Arlen Specter, Republican Senator from Pennsylvania.
Thanks.
this country is in the fckin' toilet.
please someone, anyone bomb us into oblivion...it's our only hope.
if this country was a stock on the market, we all would have dumped it a long time ago.
gB @ 86:
They have just been elevated in my eyes.
They deserve our respect.
Robber Baron govt is back in full stride. We haven't had this much greed since the 30's
We have a huge society built upon how much money you have. Money as security, identity, and power.
May I remind these Senators that these laws will be in effect when the balance of power changes in Congress. Should criminal activity with national security implications be exposed....well this legislation will be in place to deal with that sort of thing.
Thank you for passing that along. Hard to get any closer to the truth.
Reading the last several posts on this blog make me feel like I'm watching the final gasps of the American experiment.
By George....I think we've failed.
Fu*king Sickening.
neil @ 92:
"Don't give up the ship!"
If you think things are bad now, just wait until you throw up your hands and walk away.
Such is the way of things in yours and mine and many other countries as well.
More and more the law is being perverted into a tool merely to be used by the rich & powerful to control those who are not.
Justice is a thing of the past.
Democracy, or whatever has replaced it, is only for the wealthy Americans.
Well, Senator Dodd, demand a true filibuster. Make them stand up and talk for hurs about how the Constitution is meaningless and how our civil liberties are for sale. Make them filibuster for real. They are fake filibustering every damned thing you bring up, so bring it right back to them. Yuo do not have to sit down and take this. This is why approval ratings are so low. we want you to fight for real.
They didn't get the vote for cloture. So the republicans don't have to filibuster. they just have to threaten to filibuster. I say, make them stand there for days and talk every time that they threaten to filibuster. This is stupid. Make them put up or shut up.
paying attention @ 17:
And have been bent so far over for so long they don't know what Bush and Cheney have been doing back there.
The following Repugs who voted against the restoration of the Great Writ are up for re-election next year:
Alexander (R-TN), Nay
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Coleman (R-MN), Nay
Collins (R-ME), Nay
Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
Craig (R-ID), Nay
Dole (R-NC), Nay
Domenici (R-NM), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Graham (R-SC), Nay
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Shelby (R-AL), Nay
Stevens (R-AK), Nay
The following voted against Habeas Corpus restoration and are quitting or retiring:
Allard (R-CO), Nay quitting
Warner (R-VA), Nay retiring
(Hagel voted Yea)
Not voting but up for re-election in 2008
Chambliss (R-GA)
I would think that with the legal troubles of both Craig and Vitter that they above all others would hold H.C. close to, and just to chose at random a part of their anatomy, hearts.
This shouldn't be a partisan issue. All of the folks that voted no need to go. if they're this clueless, or this vile, kick 'em out.
What the hell is wrong with the GOP in this country? This is an obscenity.
Whadya bet that when the presidency goes to a Democrat, more than a few of these amoral, habeus corpus-hating Republicans will once again get all excited about checks and balances, Congressional oversight of the Executive Branch, due process of law and Constitutional rights?
If you want Republicans in Congress to restore habeus corpus, vote for Hillary. It'll be a done deal the day after the Inauguration.
Fucking scumbag Republicans. We up here in Canada are waiting patiently for some of you good Americans down there to take the bull by the horns and rid yourselves of this cancer that has taken over your country.
Dole, Elizabeth (R-NC)
She needs to go. She gives me the willies.
sulphurdunn @ 69:
No, they sure did not. And the republicans and democrats who voted "yea" don't get my respect necessarily either, this is one of the foundational ideas of bourgeois liberal democracy (not that I'm a believer in that either, but that is what the USA is supposed to be) that is being trashed here. The sad thing is, the constitutionality of it would never be questioned, because, without habeas corpus, the issue would never come before a court. This is truly the end of this bourgeois experiment that's ended in oligarchy.
What do you know, my own senator, Diapers Vitter, voted nay.
the Pinochetists need to pay for this
habeas kaput.
This is just so pathetic. Can anyone see "politics" playing out loud here? F*ck the Constitution for the repug party. What a bunch of fascist traitors.
Only reason gordie smith votes with Democrats is he is up for re-election. They can all fry in hell for all I care. Wake up America!!
Keep putting these traitors to the pad. Make them stand up and show their cowardice with each and every vote the American people demand. You may not pass anything, but you'll show you at least damn well tried!!
xoites defends Constitution @ 88:
HulksHeroes @ 108:
Smith is beginning to realize that his days are numbered...
"Absolutely unacceptable."
Shall we take the opportunity TO COUNT THE VOTES?
• Maybe a bit less Pelosi-bashing, once you understand that complicit Senators who will not vote to restore habeus corpus won't vote to convict their Boy Wonder.
And this was a fairly easy vote, by comparison. All you need is 44 nay votes, and conviction is out the window (conviction in impeachment requires 67 votes. 100-44 = 56, 11 votes shy).
These Republicans are the traitors, but watch them spin, spin, spin . . . black is white, up is down . . . make the few in the military fight over and over and over to show how much we admire them. Let's not demean them by taking good care of them, or giving them the equipment they need, or giving them some time off ! We want to show that we respect and admire them by sending them back over and over again until they are all dead so that my kids don't ave to go!
Fewer and fewer are falling for this SH** ! It is all catching up with them. . .
My fear is that the political virus that is infecting the US will spread to Canada. The Conservative government, even though its a minority, is putting a lot of effort into a PR campaign for our military, and to support our military in Afghanistan, and our Conservative Prime Minister has accused those who questioned the "mission in Afghanistan" of being Taliban supporters, makes me think that we in Canada are vulnerable to your political contagion.
"I thank the creator for my schnauzer"
Well theres something you don't hear every day.
I think these opposing senators need a thrashing come election.
Mark their names and give them plenty of publicity for their disgust of the Constitution.
Republican Idiots say often that if you do not like America then leave. Well if they don't like the Constituion they don't like America and why don't they take theri own advice and leave. They are facinated with Iran. They can go there.
The Republicans are filibustering?? I thought that was supposed to be unconstitutional. I guess that's just when Democrats do it. Funny how the news media hasn't labeled Repubs the party of "obstruction" like they used to do to Democrats whenever they would filibuster something.
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Where does it say in the Constitution that Congress can amend BASIC Rights without the consent of the Governed? Yet, they did.
Isn't it unconstitutional for Congress to eliminate the people's Rights without their consent?
Isn't it the people's duty to tell Congress NO MORE TYRANNY?
Article 1, section 9 clearly states that: The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.
WHERE'S THE REBELLION?
WHERE'S THE INVASION?
WHERE'S THE TRUTH?
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I would like to know why ANY member of Congress that voted to eliminate this most basic Right and principle, shouldn't be tarred and feathered, delivered to the Taliban and al-CIAda for being a traitor to the Republic.
How has Congress been "supporting and defending the Constitution" when they've allowed it's destruction, piece by piece?
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Jack Canuck @ 112:
Will? You have the same illness as we do, and have for quite awhile.
The antibodies are working, these few additional losses notwithstanding.
Bushco's bark v. Bush's failures is an Axis of Retreat, at this point. But if you want paranoia, they are happy to supply it.
Max-1 @ 117:
Consult today's vote. All the reason you need is right there.
Dave in PA @ 3:
Welcome to Amerika! I feel the same way as you do...The monkeys have taken over the zoo!
Blue Buddha @ 77:
Haha, bloody brilliant. I think this is the right strategy. These idiots need to feel the wrath of the very legislation, and politicians they so fervently support. Once they get a taste of it, once they realize what this is all about, you will see a transformation with these fascists the likes you've never seen before. An instant metamorphosis if you will.
Why do Republicans hate America so much?? It is truly astonishing that we even find ourselves arguing about whether or not to restore habeus corpus. It's kind of in the same vein of arguing about whether or not we should torture? What on earth has happened to this country? It certainly isn't the America I thought I knew. I say let the Republicans filibuster.
EJG @ 51:
Don't forget a 50 point interest rate reduction by the Fed on Tuesday
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/II20Dj01.html
Let's say you have a rifle on a gun rack in your truck and the POlice pull you over. Now they ask you for your gun permit so you comply and hand them a copy of the United States Federal Constitution. What happens next???
You see I thought we already had a petition for such as illegal wire tapping, domestic spying and unwarranted search and seizures. Geeze, could it be that we have we been lied to???
Proves that Reslugs are nothing but kool-aid drinking, bedwetting, scared, uncaring, blind SHEEP.
"Let’s be clear and unvarnished…44 of our Senators hate the Constitution and basic civil rights."
Uhhh... Excuse me?
I appreciate what you folks are trying to do here. Believe me, I want to see your constitution back in full force as much as the next guy. But do you really need to resort to this sort of black & white statement? What is this, some attempt at emotional manipulation?
Pretty lame. Come up with a better way to sell your argument.
Habeus Corpus is a right guaranteed to US citizens by the US Constitution. It is not applicable to Syrians, Saudis, Iraqis or Iranians shooting at US troops and blowing up Iraqi civilians in Iraq. Congress made the right choice in rejecting that nonsense.
Would you also grant them access to the 12th Amendment?
Mac @ 126:
The issue isn't citizenship, but whether justice is or isn't done. Justice demands that those detained by the US government have a chance to challenge their detention, especially when that detention is based on false evidence.
In some cases, the prisoners were not engaged in any combat, and were incorrectly identified as combatants by disgruntled people. Example: A Pakistani farmer with a grudge against a young man over a farming issue used a false charge to have this young man taken away. The US cannot wage a "war of civiilation" when that civilization proves to be barbaric, and blind-deaf to justice and evidence. The Holocaust started because there was no perceived consequence for injustice. We must remember, or we are not better than those we supposedly are "fighting".
This has a false premise: That Habeas is "guaranteed". No, it is the opposite: It cannot be denied, unless there has been an invasion or rebellion. Their have occurred.
Mac @ 126:
The "invasion" was the illegal US invasion of Iraq. Illegal Us action abroad does not "legalize" illegal US government action at home.
sovereignjohn @ 123:
The issue is subtle: They'e already started the illegal searhes; and they are ignoring the Constitution. The issue: How far will they go before they are stopped. They're not getting stopped, but asking for more waivers to the Supreme Law.
Max-1 @ 117:
They're not. That's why they need to be prosecuted. They've abused legislative immunity and the courts need to stip them of legislative immunity.
Dave in PA @ 3:
Dave, theh public is not required to remain loyal to a government that defies the law, and ignores the Constitution. We are allowed to create a new government that will enforce the Constitution.
QuakerDave @ 12:
We are allowed to lawfully create a new govenment.
It's too bad the Republicans didn't use their "nuclear option" a few years ago when they were the majority in the senate and the Democrats threatened to filibuster. If they had the Democrats wouldn't need 60 votes.
L.A. Confidential @ 20:
"Temporarily" is an excuse. It will be a parmanent change.
"Suspected foreign . . ." -- that could be anyone.
"Eavesdrop without warrants" . . . - that's the same as ignoring the Constitution, and letting the government/law enforcement go through your private papers because they want to.
Time to turn this surveillance power on the GOP; find out where the GOP e-mails went; and call teh GOP and DNC what they are -- domestic threats to the Constitution, in active rebellion, and subject to oversight by the public.
Encourage your friends to find out bout the "mandatory reporting" that government officials use as an excuse to make secret, false charges about people. These databases are used to engage in illegal surveillance, intrusion, and tracking.
Margaret @ 22:
Time for the DNC -- if it is serious -- to shut down funding to enforce the illegal changes. DNC Chairs can zero-out funding, but they refuse. Bills cannot leave committee unless the DNC agrees.
If the DNC Chairs in both the Senate and House agree -- before debate and a vote -- to same langauge, no conference committee is needed: Thus, there is no threat that the GOP can "block" a conference committee with a filibuster threat.
The DNC has the power to end this illegal activity, but refuses. Please contact your friends, let's get the evidence organized, and get the state-level grand juries empaneled to prosecute Members of Congress at the State level for denying the states of an enforcement mechanism: Something the US Government is required to enforce and gurantee to the states.
Karen;
Thanks for that list of 44... Those names need to be remembered in the coming months. They need to be voted out of office... at the least. I can't really post any further on this topic.... I'm feeling pretty much like Cheesesauce@48.....But then, I've been feeling that way at least since Bush was appointed in 2000. This bad feeling has increased expotentially since the invasion in 03.... That's it... That's the end of reasonable discourse for me right now... I just watched another Bush dog and pony show on T.V. this morning... Arrgh.... O.K....Nevermind, any more out of me will become a rant..... God or whatever anyone believes in help us all.... We surely need it.............This whole fucking screwed up world does....................JD
The genie is out of the bottle.
Indigowatcher @ 19:
It's already started. The issue is when the citizens of the states realize that they can lead an effort to prosecute Members of Congress, and have them jailed for violating their oath of office, 5 USC 3331. Legal counsel can also be prosecuted for implementing unlawful war crimes policies.
All agreements to "agree not to enforce the laws of war" are illegal. Geneva requires that the laws afforded to local citizens and the military be afforded to prisoners of war. When the US denies prisoners -- who allege they are being detained for illegal reasons -- the same rights that Geneva says must be provided to POWs, then that is a subsequent war crime.
Refusing to afford POWs the right to challenge the detention -- something that US troops are able to do under the UCMJ -- means Congress is passing unlawful legislation that endorses war crimes.
Before a war crimes tribunal the question on policy makers will be: Did they reasonably act; or were they abusing their legislative immunity. A war crimes tribunal may conclude that Members of Congress recklessly ignored their oath, did not pass reasonable legislation, and permitted war crimes despite their duty to investigate and end the illegal practices.
At this juncture, the question is whether the US citizenry, infused with this barbaric abuse of power by this US Government, will peacefully work with state-level legal counsel in the Attorney General's office to prosecute Members of Congress and investigate-disbar legal counsel hoping to implement illegal agreements to immunize offending US government officials and legal counsel. all agreements to immunize anyone for war crimes are not enforceable. No reasonable Member of Congress would support denying any POW rights which Geneva says must be granted to POWs.
The issue going forward: If the US will not lawfully comply with Geneva through internal measures, legislation, and the courts, what alternative does the world have to ensure the US fully complies with Geneva? The US and world community in WWII after it was attacked at Pearl Harbor was left with no other option but to use combat forces.
The laws of war permit reciprocity: The right of other nations to commit the same violations in response to another nations refusal to respect a law of war. If the Congress will not enforce Geneva, then other nations are permitted to commit like abuses against similarly situated prisoners: Denying all people -- on accusation alone, regardless their combatant status -- of having any rights to appeal their detention before a court.
No reasonable Member of Congress would vote to continue depriving enemy POWs rights which Geneva says must be granted: The same rights afforded to US troops under the UCMJ -- the right to challenge the evidence and charges.
Jack Damage @ 136:
There are also non-voting options: Direct prosecutions of Members of Congress for war crimes. These are arguably issues of war crimes without any immunity or defense. There is no statute of limitations. Legislative immunity can be stripped when it has been abused, as appears to be the case here.
garbo @ 27:
DNC Chairs have the power to block funding: GOP would require 2/3 vote to add the money back. Your argument fails.
Dave in PA @ 3:
Germany in WWII was allowed to advance because the German people believed they had no other options, and gave up.
JR @ 13:
Some people argue that this reckless conduct -- designed to incite war -- is "designed" to bring about exertination and reduce the population.
It is a Leninist-Hegelian-argument: From chaos comes a solution. Very defeatist, but some in the legal community subscribe to it, especially when they justify their support for this President's war crimes.
These are not issues of US sovereignty, but international war crimes. US law is not the only standard governing Congress. These violations of the constitution and Geneva are evidence. The following does not advocate violence of illegal activity, but discusses what the laws of war permit when a government refuses to comply with the laws of war. Nuremberg and Tokyo War Crimes Trials are precedents for prosecuting civilian policy makers who refuse to end war crimes. The US government separates power: Policy making relative to Geneva is not something that Congress takes a "hands off" approach. Members of Congress are involved with the funding and decisions to comply or not comply with Geneva.
In the US system, Members of Congress have the power to end funding for what is illegal. The question turns on whether Members of Congress, seeing these illegal war crimes, did or did not abuse their legislative immunity and refuse to remove themselves from this illegal policy making.
Necadawg @ 24:
The constitution is still there: It is the standard. The oath requires enforcing Geneva -- it is a treaty requirement. Congress has no power to unilaterally abrogate it. US Congress' action is evidence of subsequent war crimes.
The laws of war are a check on this Congress. Other nations, seeing the US Congress violations, may lawfully reciprocate (violate similar standards) and retaliate (take punitive military action to punish the US Congress). Other combatants are lawfully allowed to enter US territory, violate the US sovereignty, and take military action to retaliate against the US government. The US may not use the world's lawful retaliation-reciprocity to then broaden, expand, and "legalize" US war crimes and illegal warfare. This would unreasonably reward the US for attempts to violate Geneva.
There is a reasonable basis to bring war crimes charges against Members of Congress. No one can make any agreement, nor pass any act, which permits US Constitutional requirements -- the oath of office, and Geneva/treaty obligations -- to fall apart.
A. Did Members of Congress abuse their legislative immunity; and should that immunity be stripped? Arguably, yes.
B. Did Members of Congress, who had the option to impeach, refuse to enforce the laws of war? Yes.
C. Did Members of Congress, in refusing to end war crimes funding, engage in war crimes policy making? Arguably, yes.
Rememberholocaust;
Just for the record.. I favor war crimes trials for 'anyone', dem or republican who have aided and/or abetted in 'any way' and/or actively participated in the gutting of our constitution and its provisions...in support of George W. Bush and the neocon PNAC plan... I also favor impeachment of this president, vice president and charges brought against the former Attorney General and several other high ranking and former high ranking Bush associates such as Karl Rove.
I also, however, get the perspective voiced by some like Paul in LA who have repeatedly spoken about the nature of the congressional setup and why the dems really can't get what they want done... As has been illustrated here, his words have proven accurate. I favor all the above and for the realpolitik reasons Paul in LA and others have voiced,... I'm not sure any of us will see any good or justice for these abominations in our lifetime...
I'm at a loss for what to do within the system... With the scheming going on here in California, not sure what to make of the coming months leading up to the election. I guess when the time comes, if it comes... I'll pick up a pitchfork and torch with the rest of the rabble... and what.... Probably die or end up in prison... As many have intoned.... The America I knew and grew up in indeed appears to be, if not dead, it's on life support with more people (Americans no less) then I care to consider eagerly pining to pull the plug completely and let whatever is left of this noble experiment expire... :-( JD
Review
Thought you may wish to see how this ties together.
No Longer a Domestic Issue
This vote has world-wide implications. The world leaders see Congress will not voluntarily comply with Geneva. There are two options for Americans: Lawful consequences with prosecutions, and voting them out of office; however, world leaders have another option besides sanctions and legal challenges -- they may lawfully engage in combat.
War Crimes Issue
Geneva requires all trial procedures afforded to the detaining power be afforded to POWs. Under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, US military personnel do have the right to challenge charges against them. Geneva requires the same trial procedures be afforded to the POWs.
Despite the 2006 vote for 'change", the war crimes continue. Members of Congress need to be prosecuted for failing to ensure Geneva obligations are enforced.
Violation of Separation of Powers
Congress, in refusing to accept that Habeas was never lawfully denied, has engaged in unlawful Judicial Oversight -- it is trumping the courts, and saying that the Courts may not ensure that Geneva obligations shall be recognized. This is a violation of the Separation of Powers. The net result of this illegal assertion of non-delegated powers are subsequent war crimes. Congress, through this inaction, intends this outcome. This is illegal.
This almost makes me want to cry.
Jack Damage @ 143:
I hear you on the concern with the DNC. The problem is that the DNC does not need a "super majority" in the Senate to do anything. That is fiction. Let me explain.
1. DNC Chairs Control the budgets
The DNC, not the GOP, sets the agenda. The DNC Chairs can zero-out funding. They can strip the President of any funds used to violate Habeas; and expressly include languge that prohibits the President from abrogating Geneva. They refuse to do this.
2. DNC in House and Senate Can agree to Common Language
One argument is that the GOP can "block the DNC" because of the Senate Conference Committee. A conference committee is only required to reconcile a bill. Yet, if the Senate and House agree in advance to the same language, the GOP is not in any position to block what is not needed.
I appreciate the concern that "nothing" is being done. The issue isn't that the DNC is "stuck"; the issue is the DNC is making excuses to support war crimes. The DNC and GOP are the domestic enemy. As are their legal counsel. They need to be prosecuted. They refuse to use all lawful options -- zeroing out funds, engaging in creative problem solving -- and are arguably not meeting their 5 USC 3331 obligations: The requirement to enforce the Constitution and laws of war without any mental reservation. Refusing to use all options on the table is evidence of having a mental reservation, and argubly sufficient evidence for 5 USC 3331 conviction.
Remedies
It's actually quite simple to solve this problem. Reconsider the Declaration of Independence and Magna Carta for the Moment: Each was a list of grievances, and an outline for a solution. Today, the easy part are the many list of abuses. It doesn't take much to imagine a system that addresses these abuses:
- Denying Members of Congress immunity in specific cases, and compelling action
- Increasing the State citizen awareness of their power to prosecute Members of Congress and disbar legal counsel
- Creating an independent system to investigate -- outside Congress and the Executive Branch -- issues of war crimes, malfeasance, illegal warfare, and Geneva violations
I encourage you to not throw up your hands, but do the opposite: attempt to work with your friends to clearly identify the recurring problems; then discuss a lawful solution to the problem. Use the model of the Declaration of Independence and Magna Carta as a guide: A list of abuses can be solved with a list of solutions. It can be done. Best wishes.
Logan @ 145:
It is OK to cry. This is very disturbing. And there are lawful solutions: there is no statute of limitations for war crimes.
Rememberholocaust;
Thanks for the goods wishes and the outline on what a possible solution could be... Sounds reasonable and legal... We'll see... That's about the best I can offer... Thing is, I ain't quiting dispite how depressing it all appears right now, and neither are a lot of the posters here who are in the know... But without the other 60 or 70 million citizens waking up... The ones who sat it all out completely, or thought voting republican was a good idea in 2000, and 'especially those' who voted that way in 2004 in spite of everything we all knew by then.. Not sure anything short of a second civil war is going to put a stop to this madness... Not even sure that would work... We are so thouroughly polarized now, there's not much wiggle room for compromise. And it's yet another big problem with getting everyone to even come to the 'table' let alone agree on a proper course.... As I said... We'll see..one way or the other.... One thing is clear.. This is a decisive time and moment, these next 16 to 18 months...... Things cannot continue as they are... Somethings gonna give.. I just don't know what......JD
What's most disturbing isn't that the vote failed. Quite frankly, the numbers just weren't there, and Republicans are pretty goddamn stubborn.
The real disturbing part is that despite the Dems finally voting lockstep in the best interest of our country, the liberal base can't seem to be happy with it.
This is a really tough situation dems are in, and this just isn't helping. There's no 60-vote super majority.
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