Not One Red Cent
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Sep 19, 2007 8:26pm
I'm on board, how about you?
In fact, I'm going to take the money I would have donated to Democratic campaigns and donating it to MoveOn so that they can redouble their efforts.
Let those gutless Democrats in the Senate who once again caved to Republican framing know, "I will fight back."
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First!!!!
The Democrats in DC are useless useless useless!!! How dare they vote with the right wing traitors against the Democratic base.
Where were these useless wimp Democratic politicians when the Swift Boat Liars weent against "WAR HERO"/Democratic Presidential candidate 04 John Kerry?
Where were they to condemn the right wing liars????
For a second I thought you were referring to the amount of the Federal Income Tax that goes to pay for government services.
Not on board.
We need more democrats. This reeks of "Might as well vote for Nader" and we all saw what happened with that great idea in 2000.
Like it or not, the democratic party are our only hope.
a damned fine idea . . . and interesting how cheesed off the ruling class gets when us common folk speak out.
Speaking (of ) sense:
From: AmericafForGore: THE TWO CENTS CAMPAIGN
Show Al the Money!
If you want to do your part to help convince Al Gore to run for President, join our two cents campaign. All you have to do is put two pennies in an envelope, and send them to Office of the Honorable Al Gore, 2100 West End Avenue, Suite 620, Nashville, TN 37203. You can include a note that you'll send a proper contribution once he announces he's in the race. We believe that Gore and his advisors will take note of this tangible evidence that America needs him to run for president. It is simple, won't take long to do and will only cost you half a dollar including stamp and envelope and, of course, the two pennies. So dive into the couch and retrieve the pennies that will represent your opinion, and let's get Al in the race!
Desperate times, desperate efforts. Well... MoveOn is not exactly a bad alternative.
I'm DEFINITELY on board.
I donated $25.00 today.
I have already made my contribution to MoveOn tonight.
Most of the Senate Democrats are cowards, and I am getting sick of it.
Amazing! I said that today, that I would no longer contribute to any politician, my money is going to moveon and a few other web sites like TPM. The democrats say they don't have the votes for impeachment... could anyone tell me what the vote count was for the impeachment of Richard M. Nixon?
How about donatin' that money to the Dems who oppose the incumbents who voted fer the Cornyn Amendment?
Or hows about donatin' to Dems who voted against the Cornyn Amendment- there are twenty five of those folks.
I hate to increase the competition, but if any of you true blue Progressives out there are looking to change the world with Eli, tomorrow is the last day to apply for their Fellowship.
i have received two emails recently from the DNC asking for money. i replied to dncmemberservices_3@dnc.org that i will not give them one red cent until the democrat-led congress does not do what they were elected to do. doesn't an 11% approval rating for congress tell them that they are moving in the wrong direction?
ME TOO!
And to hell with BLUE DOG AND ALL OTHER BUSH ENABLING DEMOCRATS, in or outside the beltway!
Jim @ 4:
the current situation is untenable . . . we are f*cked if the dems don't grow spines.
> Like it or not, the democratic party are our only hope.
No. WE are THEIR only hope and they'd better start realizing it.
I'm resigned. I'm ready for this country to turn into a fascist one-party state. I don't need false hope.
If you're interested in stopping it and you want my support, you'd fucking better well start DEMONSTRATING the will to do so.
Sorry. Won't be fooled again. Certainly not by the politics of fear.
And Nader didn't hand this country to Bush all by his lonesome...Gore did...the Supreme Court did...Kerry did...we all did.
You know, if Nader had been in Gore's position, he would have fucking FOUGHT.
I sleep well at night knowing that Joe Lieberman never...NEVER...got a vote out of me.
Does your conscience bother you?
Thank you Nicole. That is an excellent idea. Something has got to wake up the Dems. Either they are an alternative to the ReTHugs, or they are the same. Time to step up to the plate Dems. Enough is enough. You say you are different, but go out of your way to show you are the same. Once again, thanks Nicole. Great link!!!
Supporting primary challengers.
Seize party, insert spine.
what the FUCK is wrong with these fucking democrats? What the fuck? What the fuck are they doing? What the fuck?
I swear I'm going to stay home in 2008. Fuck it all. Those fucking cowards sat idly by while Kerry was swiftboated and now they want to pass a fucking resolution?
Bush politicized Patreus. Patreus is fair game. But mostly, political speech is free.
Kinda reminds me of the ol' saying, "It's not nice to fool Mother Nature." Those democrats who voted for the measure chastising Move-On will come to regret it.
this is the new revolution - fighting fire with fire and encouraging more americans to read.
oops. this is what i meant to say
i have received two emails recently from the DNC asking for money. i replied to dncmemberservices_3@dnc.org that i will not give them one red cent until the democrat-led congress does what they were elected to do. doesn’t an 11% approval rating for congress tell them that they are moving in the wrong direction?
Is anybody making Amero coins yet, we could send them those!
Already there. I sent MoveOn money, won't send any to any dems who are too spineless to stand up for what's right. cowards, every single one of them.
not on board, either.
set the war aside (i know, i know, but follow me here...)
we need more dems to break filibusters on major domestic legislation, like health care...like re-building national infrastructure...like ending tax breaks for the disproprtionately wealthy.
besides, move on will just spend the money on more sophomoric and non-strategic -- even if red-meat satisfying -- ads like "betray us."
luv ya, crooks&liars, get over it...
I just sent my first $30 ever to moveon.org today. I'm glad other people are having the same idea!!!!
I'm in. I just got a packet from the DNC with a photo of the candidates at their "debate". I will put a check in their envelope and send it to Moveon.org first thing in the morning.
I donated $100 today to MoveOn.org and then I called Senator Cornyn and thanked him for inispiring me to do so. I have donated $$ to Move on during the 2006 election, but admit have not sent them any $$ for awhile. What happened today got me soooo mad, that I decided to start contributing again. I think Repugs are very very scared of the power MoveOn has. Thanks Sen. Cornyn. You are a jerk, and because of you, I will make regualar contributions to MoveOn, an organization you, and your ilk are soooo afraid of!
Lucky for me my one Dem Senator is voting correctly but he agreed to the 60 vote requirement for the Webb amendment. I sent the following note by fax to him today:
09/20/2007
Senator Sherrod C. Brown
Constitution and Delaware Avenues, NE
RSOB- Russell Senate Office Building - Room 455
Washington, DC 20510-3505
Senator Brown,
I am writing to ask you why you agreed to the unanimous consent that called for a vote of 60 to pass the Webb amendment, which would have required US troops spend as much time at home training with their units as they spend deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan.
I know you voted for the bill itself, however I notice you agreed to required the bill to get 60 votes to pass. I have learned that even if one Senator objected to the consent, the bill would have passed with the 56 it got and it would have forced the Republicans to filibuster.
I hope I don't need to remind you that the Democratic party looks worse when they given in to the GOP without them even putting up a fight. I am getting tired of watching your party give in to the Republicans and a President with a 30% approval rating.
When are you guys going to start acting like you are the majority?
Fuck the Democrats! Spineless little pigs. I'm so far out of the Democratic party they can't even get me on a spy satalite! Oh, BTW, I've been a solid Democrat since 1971. I am so sick of these chickenshit DNC cowards, I'm out!! There needs to be a revolution, period! Don't give me any of that whiney, "it's all that we've got" shit. It is not!! Think!! Think!! It's not against the law.... YET!!!!! FUCK!!!!!
PS I will give every dollar I can give to Moveon.org... they have guts and they speak the TRUTH!!!!
> luv ya, crooks&liars, get over it…
No.
Every time a Democratic fund raiser calls - tell them you now send all your money to moveon.org.
Every time anyone calls for you to answer a political "survey", tell them you vote Republican
Don't go to political rally's
Don't show any interest in supporting a democratic candidate.
Be silent for a year
Let their numbers fall.
BUT WHEN WE ARE ASKED TO VOTE - GO AND VOTE DEMOCRAT.
I'm with you.
jo6pac
May I also suggest the ACLU as a fine alternative to the useless Democrats. Basically, someone who has a record defending the unalienable rights of "We The People"...that basically excludes nearly everyone in our federal government, who have (mostly) committed perjury when the swore to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution."
Jim @ 4:
I'm with you, Jim. I'd at least like to see the dems take a super majority in the congress for a little while. THEN we can start holding their feet to the fire for long term change in this country. But on this site, you'll be called republican-lite and the very thing that is wrong with America for even hoping for improvement before Utopia.
I'm afraid that pragmatism to the left wing is kind of like thoughtfulness to the right wing ... they just don't think it's necessary.
Above a poster says that if things don't change, we're all fucked. I agree. But I think the change starts with getting the republican neocons and social totalitarians out of power. I think some don't consider it change until MLK and Ghandi come back from the dead to lead the socialist movement. (I say socialist in the good, non-propagandist context ... not the scary, commies are gonna get us context)
I thought the Move On ad was a mistake -- that they should have known that it would become the center of the debate rather than what really needed to be discussed, namely bringing the troops home.
Seriously, Karl Rove couldn't have planned it better himself if he had planted operatives in MoveOn and asked them to craft an ad that would become a distraction from the real issue.
But the Democrats have proven to be so spineless, that I'm inclined to give my money to MoveOn instead of them.
Pat Ukaleley @ 33:
Not bad. Making a point without shitting in your own bed. Not bad.
nope.
still not on board.
i ain't persuaded.
move on is "clever" but you don't win legislation that helps kids, the poor, education and the health of the country with "clever."
you can't wield power without having it. that means numbers.
this "tantrum" of a thread is really silly.
move on gave the republicans a gift: dems/liberals/progressives hate the military.
dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb strategy. for a "clever" rhyme on petraeus?
get out of politics. go to frickin' poetry school.
take a chill pill guys...
y'all got hoisted on move on's own "clever" petard.
Call the Capitol Switchboard, ask for Harry Reid and or all the turncoat Democratic Senators that sided with the hypocrite traitors to the US Constitution.
(202)224-3121
Democrats voting yes for the measure were:
Baucus (MT)
Bayh (IN)
Cardin (MD)
Carper (DE)
Casey (PA)
Conrad (ND)
Dorgan (ND)
Feinstein (CA)
Johnson (SD)
Klobuchar (MN)
Kohl (WI)
Landrieu (LA)
Leahy (VT)
Lincoln (AR)
McCaskill (MO)
Mikulski (MD)
Nelson (NE)
Nelson (FL)
Pryor (AR)
Salazar (CO)
Tester (MT)
Webb (VA)
Ok, done! I just donated $25 to MoveOn, and I promise, NOOO more donations to the Democratic Party, not until they earn it!
But MoveOn has a history of capitalizing on anti-war sentiment to support right-wing Democratic candidates. In the end, MoveOn will back any vulnerable Democrat, no matter how sleazy.
PAINT YOUR PENNIES
... ORANGE ...
... PASS em AROUND
... Buy Some Peace
... Put Some On de Ground as U Walk Around
U Know... A Penny 4 Your Thoughts of Peace All Over OUR Earth
" 2 Hell... With War "
" penny 2 end all war "
" bush thoughts arn't worth a damn penny "
.
.
>I’m afraid that pragmatism to the left wing is kind of like thoughtfulness to the right wing … they just don’t think it’s necessary.
The pragmatism door swings both ways. If the Dems can't take our support for granted, then maybe they'll feel SOME pressure to win us back.
What's your alternative? To get a solid 67 senators? That's not going to fucking happen.
Putting up with this nonsense until they get a supermajority is about as pragmatic as hoping that God will Rapture us all up before things get any worse.
No, we have to put the pressure on NOW. Waiting for the supermajority is a suckers' game.
The pragmatic thing is to hold their feet to the fire NOW...not with the expectation that they'll stop Republican obstructionism, math being math, but to fight them.
Fight them.
FIGHT THEM!
FIGHT THEM! FIGHT THEM! FIGHT THEM!
Why not fight now? Do you really think the Democrats will HARM themselves by standing up for what they believe in? Do you really think that those of us who support them do a service to this country by not demanding that they do so?
What's pragmatic about that? "Just wait...just wait until the next election...just wait until this report...just wait until that hearing...just wait until I finish this strongly worded letter."
I. Am. Done. Waiting.
We must call the turncoats to voice our displeasure :
Call the Capitol Switchboard, ask for Harry Reid and or all the turncoat Democratic Senators that sided with the hypocrite traitors to the US Constitution.
(202)224-3121
Democrats voting yes for the measure were:
Baucus (MT)
Bayh (IN)
Cardin (MD)
Carper (DE)
Casey (PA)
Conrad (ND)
Dorgan (ND)
Feinstein (CA)
Johnson (SD)
Klobuchar (MN)
Kohl (WI)
Landrieu (LA)
Leahy (VT)
Lincoln (AR)
McCaskill (MO)
Mikulski (MD)
Nelson (NE)
Nelson (FL)
Pryor (AR)
Salazar (CO)
Tester (MT)
Webb (VA)
MoveON/DNC, no difference. Well, at least the DNC makes less of a pretense of being anti-war.
The GOP used this vote to drive a wedge between the "moderate" democrat (aka Rohm's NAFTA candidates) and the base. I say, thank you GOP, it's about time Dems cut those DINO's loose. I got a fundraising letter from the DNC 5 weeks ago asking for money, I sent it back with the words, "Not one dime until Impeachment" with a big black sharpie.
My money is going to MoveOn.org!!!!!
Look at the 2-3 year old interview with K. Vonnegut on PBS. Its available on the Internet. He calls the 2 party system in the U.S. ridiculous. Both sides are rich and on the side of the rich so the winners in the U.S. cannot lose. Its just that
the Rupublicans are more on the side of the rich than the Democrats.
I.e.,
DAVID BRANCACCIO: Well, you write in the book you say that the last election, the two leading candidates were two C students from Yale, as you put it.
KURT VONNEGUT: Two members of Skull and Bones at Yale, for God's sake. If I mean, that's what a charade the combat between the Republicans and the Democrats is. It's rich kids. Winners on both sides. So the winners can't lose. And, of course, the losers have no representation in Congress or whatever.
But look, yeah. We had to choose between two members of Skull and Bones? What about if we had to choose between two members of Sigma Chi at Purdue? Wouldn't somebody have said what a minute. What the hell happened here?
DAVID BRANCACCIO: But you're saying you don't see senior political figures really, anybody representing the interests of people who are struggling?
KURT VONNEGUT: No, are not representing the American people. And, so there are people who made a hell of a lot of money one way or another. Making it during the war, incidentally. As you know, maybe the war is a bad idea. But some people are making a ton of money off of it. And they want to hang on to whatever they've got. And so they bank roll political campaigns for both Republicans and Democrats. Look, we're awful animals. We can start with that. You know, it's a whole human experiment, if that's what we are.
DAVID BRANCACCIO: That heart-- at heart, we're awful?
KURT VONNEGUT: Look, we after two World Wars and the holocaust and the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and after the Roman games and after the Spanish Inquisition and after burning witches, the public-- shouldn't we call it off? I mean, we are a disease and should be ashamed of ourselves.
And so, yeah, I think we ought to stop reproducing. But since we're not going to do that, I think the planet's immune system is trying to get rid of us.
http://www.maclife.com/article/10_worst_apple_commercials
I signed up as a member at MoveOn.Org this evening after reading about the bullsh-t the Senate did. My pennies will go to MoveOn.Org, not any politicians that can attack citizens speaking out in a day yet can't stop an illegal war based on lies given months to try.
Oops! Wrong link...that was to the 10 worst Apple commercials. Here you go....
Vonnegut told the truth...
http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcriptNOW140_full.html
You know, I've re-thought my position. I just went to the store. I saw a protester named Joe with a sign in the parking lot that said, "Impeach the war criminal Bush!"
I walked up to him and told him how much I admired his moxy. I then wrote him a check for $1000 (the $1000 I was going to give to the Dems' effort to win the white house) and I asked him to run for president. Fuck the democrats. We're not going to change this country until we all band together and vote for Joe. Until then, we may as well have Bush/Clinton for the rest of time. Because there really is no difference between the two major parties.
Joe in '08!
... or maybe I'm being sarcastic. (thank you captain obvious)
Jim @ 4:
If that were true i would have no hope. We have Democrats who should be in office and Democrats who should get out of the way already and let us have our nation back. The ones who voted to condemn Move On today should start counting the days they have left in office because right now they should have a solid date to look at.
Jim @ 4:
WIth ya Jim - just as soon as they grow a spine and a set. Not before then.
I mostly lurk this site, John, Nicole, you do good work.
I am fed right the fuck up with this horse shit we have in our house and senate. This occupation is unjust, illegal, and a goddamn sin by shrubbie's god's eyes, yet, they still want to send our kids, our parents, our grandparents, and I bet in some cases great-grandparents over to piss off the rest of the goddamn world.
Shrubbie's little oil/ego war is the worst thing that's happened to this nation (and the world) in the last 100 years in my humble opinion.
I wouldn't piss down their throats if their lungs were on fire.
If I could've afforded more than $300, I would've given it.
move on gave the republicans a gift: dems/liberals/progressives hate the military.
I agree. The ad took the attention off Petraeus' testimony. Not only that, but I think many good, solid Democrats who don't read blogs and are just honest hard-working folk, think it was over the top. I talked with a group the other day that was working on a mailing for a Democratic candidate for state senate in Virginia who thought it was childish.
Now, I've read that my congressman, Tom Davis, is going to look into whether the NYTimes broke campaign laws by selling ad space to MoveOn at a discount.
Too late... I've already donated $120.... To Ron Paul.
Just left a message with Harry Reid's DLC office. I told him that I was motivated to make a donation to MoveOn.org by their actions, and I would never EVER donate to the Dems until they get their heads out of their asses.
These politician thugs make me SICK!
JasonS @ 44:
The answer to your questions ... No and no. I don't think the dems would harm themselves. But they obviously do; nor do I expect them to in the short term. No, it is not a disservice to demand that they change. We just disagree over what can be accomplished by '08 and '12. I'd love it if we could all get off of our lazy asses and storm D.C. But it would take a couple million of us. Again ... lots of shit that needs to happen, that I'd love to see happen, but won't happen. Our disagreement is over whether trying for more seats would be at all productive.
I hate them too ... pretty much all of them. But I've never before seen the kind of scary shit that I've seen coming from this administration. IMO, the American people need to send a message to the neo-facists first.
Time to put the money where the mouse is: I sent MoveOn a goodly (by my standards) donation. Money is the only thing that most of the shills in Congress really believe in so lets see how they feel when their "condemnation"---not much sting to it when you consider the source---turns out to be the biggest fund raising event ever for MoveOn. Send the spineless stooges in DC a message and a check to MoveOn!!!
This is almost identical to a suggestion I'd made a week ago in a post linked by Buzzflash, "The New Democratic Symbol: The Finch." I'm getting kind of tired of being remembered by these Democrats only when their campaign coffers need refilling.
Or when they need another vote, despite people like me making up the nearly 90% who disapprove of the job Congress is doing.
But giving money to Moveon... Don't they also hand out large amounts of money to Democrats (which is probably the only reason the good ole boy network on the left side of the aisle tolerates them)? How do you know the money you give them won't go to someone undeserving of it?
I agree that we should take the money we'd planned to contribute to democratic candidates and, instead, send it to MoveOn.org so they can continue their outing of the fraud and criminal activities ongoing in this administration.
That and registering as an Independent, that is! When you do you will be unbelievably reprieved of the anger of these sycophantic, spineless, and now "complicit" democrats who are betraying the people day by day.
In 08, the I's will have even greater power. We are now at 35% - dwarfing the number of registered Repukes at this point by some 7 percentage points. The MSM will soon be forced to reckon with the Independent voters because we will soon compete with the number of registered democrats and may even eclipse them, if this "do nothing" congress continues to ignore the protests of the people.
That goes without saying for ALL candidates. There is no way the I's will fall for a candidate who refuses to listen to the people so overtly right now with their calls to end this war immediately. Ron Paul is beginning to gain traction with Independent voters and some disgusted democrats. He'd make one hellova Veep for Michael Bloomberg though and this pair could really clean up with 35% of I's and even some liberal republicans....could make the election very, very interesting.
My prediction is that none of the candidates on the radar right now represent THE PEOPLE which is why the people can't get excited about any one of them - on both sides of the aisle.
Just wait until Bloomberg throws his hat into the ring next Spring though. Then we'll see some rock 'n roll!
Check
Fook those backstabbers.
Read Wes Clark's opinion of the MoveOn ad:
http://openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1467
H a l l e l u j a h !
This is not about the war in Iraq; it is not about respect for the military; it is not about terrorism; it is certainly not about patriotism. It is about Free Speech and nothing else (well, maybe a little hypocrisy). It is about the United States Senate deciding that it can penalize private citizens and groups for expressing their opinions.
You are sooo right, Nicole. I created a simple graphic message that everyone can use to let their feelings be known. It's a take off on the MoveOn ad. Help yourselves...
U.S. Congress Or U.S. Betray Us?
Are you guys crazy? Don't you understand that you've just been divided and are now in the process of being conquered? This is how the Republicans could win in '08, at which point I may seriously consider moving to Canada, or the Independent Republic of Vermont, if it exists.
MoveOn has become what it was created to destroy. It is the ultimate, sad irony. MoveOn has become FoxNews. That's right, the ad was a gift delivered on a silver platter that even Rove couldn't have better designed. They made the headline more powerful than the message, and when you do that (see FoxNews every minute of every day) the actual message (read: THE TRUTH, aka THE FACTS) get brushed aside, obscured, even omitted all together. Nobody cares what MoveOn was actually trying to say (the legitimate point that Petraeus was making himself a political lacky at the pleasure of the President), all anyone sees is that they were calling a well-respected General a traitor. And that my friends IS stupid. It's the kind of stupid I would expect from Fox and the Coulter crowd. But how sad to see this kind of irony.
You all have got to stick together and try to understand this all from the Democrats' perspective. Yes, they have a majority in both houses, but it's a small and virtually meaningless majority. They are not going to be able to correct the entire disastrous clusterfuck that is the past 6 years overnight. It's going to take years. So please, for America's sake stick with them, they won't be able to deliver any real results until they have the larger majority AND the presidency. Don't give up on them. I'm telling you, you all are making Rove smile and masturbate himself senseless to this bullshit.
STICK TOGETHER. STICK TOGETHER AND AGITATE, AGITATE, AGITATE.
Many of us must be having similar thoughts today. I received a request for a donation from the Democratic party and I turned them down and told them why.
Then I visited the MoveOn.org site and donated the money I would have given to the Democratic party to MoveOn.
There is one democrat that is unlike the others who is running for president. That is Dennis Kucinich. He is honest and the others are doing their best to keep him in the background. Media is cutting news concerning him, cutting him out of photographs etc. We need to take a longer look at Kucinich. He is straightforward and continually fights for the rights of the citizens of this country. He is worth at least looking at to see what everyone thinks and if you like what he stands for start to make noise that the others can't cover up!
I'm so disgusted with the spineless Dems that signed on to Cornyn's bullshit resolution I can't even see straight right now. They make me sick.
I am unemployed, and under $30k of credit card debt.
Yet I am so fed up, I am so angry, I am so quite frankly MAD at the democrats, that tonight I made my $10 donation to MoveOn.
Following this, I sent two emails to the DNC to let them know that I took the pledge to donate EXCLUSIVELY to Moveon from now on every month and to boycott the DNC. I also made a phone call to my senator and my house rep let them know about my decision.
I invite you to do the same: give $$ to Moveon, but also DO CALL the DNC to let them know about it.
I am sorry but we do not "let" the Republicans go apeshit. They do that whenever challenged. Wes Clark is wrong and that is his problem, not mine.
The Dems will get paid when they stop getting played.
Until then, nada.
I have been giving money to candidates for years by going thru Emily"s List or League of Concervation Voters. It is not foolproof, but it helps the candidates to know that their backers have specific issues that they rank above party loyalty. I always send back the DNC stuff with-I give thru Emily'sList scrawled across it. By the way, go Dennis!
> Are you guys crazy? Don’t you understand that you’ve just been divided and are now in the
> process of being conquered? This is how the Republicans could win in ‘08, at which point I may > seriously consider moving to Canada, or the Independent Republic of Vermont, if it exists.
So, your breaking point is a Republican victory in '08...at which point you will bail.
No one is driving me out of this country and no one is dividing me from my conscience. I will support the Democrats if and when they demonstrate a willingness to lead.
Of course they have a razor thin majority. Of course the Republicans will obstruct. No one is expecting them to overcome that.
But laying DOWN to it? Feh.
We're not in an election year. They have time to win us back. Throwing this "tantrum" a few months before the vote would be destructive of their chances.
Without pressure from their base, they will never do anything and the next president will inherit a bigger mess than she otherwise would.
This is not petulance. This is not taking our toys and going home. This is not allowing the Rethugs to split us. This is stating, clearly, what we need to stick together.
You want pragmatic politics? You want reason? Okay, reason with this: losing your base is no way to win an election, and tarting yourself up to be more presentable to Rethug voters is contemptible and unprincipled.
Give us something to vote for. You have time. No one is in a voting booth yet.
But don't demean our anger. Don't dismiss our disappointment. And don't condescendingly tell us that we have to vote the way you want us to.
And yes, I'd rather let the Republicans run everything into the ground than support this kind of naked capitulation. Pull up. You're heading for the ground.
Win us back.
DO SOMETHING!!!
Let's especially remember how the presidential contenders voted:
Clinton - nay (I suspect the HRCs vote was political after she spent all that time gushing about Petraeus; still it would have been easy to vote "not-voting" or even nay)
Dodd - nay (The more I see about Dodd
Obama - not voting (No points for wearing gloves so you don't leave finger prints, oh spineless one).
Biden - not voting (He's not a credible candidate anyway; not even for VP though I guess he could be the Democratic Quayle).
To all of you who compare this effort to voting for Nader, let me explain something to you: Our system occasionally provides the public with democratic channels so they can indirectly "participate" in the decision making process. When these channels open up (i.e. election day), by all means, vote for a top tier Democratic candidate. However, for grassroots efforts such as these, election day is everyday. Supporting progressive causes will not only popularize the best politicians, but it will also put pressure on the Democratic Party to do the right thing.
How is this possibly a bad thing?
MagnificentAppendage @ 65:
Wrong. Nobody on the democratic side is losing sleep over this ad, it's just there are some who think it was a bit much and some who don't. Nobody's opinions on the war have been changed.
"Betrayus" was a malapropism that the troops who served under him came up with. It's word play, and it was catchy, and the ad worked better than anyone could have ever imagined.
Most of the media has dropped this story by now, except for you-know-who.
Right on. This "shut up and trust our leader(s)" mentality is what has reduced the Republicans to their current sorry state and I'm not interested in goosestepping down that road.
Not for all the bridges in Minnesota.
Trust? Never again. Verify? Always.
And if your party needs a super-duper-extra-special-ultra-majority to get the barest thing done, then go hire Karl Rove.
joecitizen @ 76:
Actually, the first ten times i heard his name on the radio i thought i was hearing "General Betrayus." I had a hard tim figuring out what kind of cruel joke was being played on us.
Now i know.
I don't think it's wise or right to penalize Dennis Kucinich on this one. He speaks truth to power, and he gets the middle finger from corporate media.
On the bright side, I sent this to my republic senator, Gordon Flipper Smith:
Phantom @ 75:
Not a bad thing at all. But most of the haters don't advocate voting for a top tier democrat on election day. They hate and criticize, then they suggest that there is no difference between the Democratic party and the Republican party ... which IMO is an absurd comment.
I'm all for constructive criticism and activism inside the party. But the venomous hate directed at dems that is exhibited in threads like this is only rivaled by the most devisive right-wing haters.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding all of the hateful sentiment, and all of these people will indeed come together to defeat republicans in '08. But to read their comments, it's not a stretch to assume they advocate defeating Democrats in '08. I'm convinced that would be counter-productive.
Just donated $100. Put up, or shut up!
I hope we shall crush in its birth
the aristocracy of our monied corporations
which dare already to challenge our government to a trial by strength,
and bid defiance to the laws of our country.
Thomas Jefferson
damn straight Nicole
spending mine on nookie
JasonS @ 77:
Dude. Never, never, never, nerver, never, never have I ever suggested anyone shut up and trust our leaders. My only point is, don't fuck yourself out of a chance to at least make an improvement. There isn't a single person running for office whom I trust. Not one.
So I say don't shut up. Don't trust anyone. But for the love of God, please do what it takes to get rid of the neo-fascist, social totalitarian republicans. And I'd like to know how you define "barest thing" and just what the hell Karl Rove has to do with accomplishing anything in congress as far as the Democrats go. Karl Rove was a lying propagandist. What does that have to do with the hopes that we can pull this country back from the edge by securing enough votes to keep the wolves from stopping us? That's like saying, "If your checking account needs a super-duper-blah-blah-blah deposit just to pay the barest expenses, the go hire Ken Lay."
tyree @ 84:
I'm with you, ree ree! Best idea so far.
>Maybe I’m misunderstanding all of the hateful sentiment, and all of these people will indeed
>come together to defeat republicans in ‘08. But to read their comments, it’s not a stretch to
>assume they advocate defeating Democrats in ‘08. I’m convinced that would be
>counter-productive.
No, I'm advocating that the Democrats stand up for what they say they believe in.
If this war is as WRONG as we all think and they all say they think it is, then to roll over like this is unconscionable.
I *want* them to do the right thing. I *want* to vote for the Dems. I *want* to believe that they're not just one of two franchises in the War Party.
But I'm not seeing what I need to see.
I'm not calling for anyone to do anything but vote their conscience. There is a strong, principled argument to support the Democrats. But there's also a strong, principled argument to withhold support for lack of action.
I know the Democrats will govern better than the Republicans, and I want to give them that chance.
I'm just not willing to sell my soul to do it.
It took thirty years of underhanded bullshit shenanigans by the neo-cons to get where they are now, unfortunately changing things back will not happen overnight; our system is designed to move slowly. It is going to be a very long slog to get back to even a resemblance of normalcy in this country. It is stupid to give up on the Democratic party now when they've started to make inroads. It is the war, not any individual battle that matters.
Heretic @ 81:
Put up or shut up? Really? Is that what putting up really is nowadays? I don't mean to demean your contribution, or your motive. But is that really what putting up is? If only ...
That's a little like saying you support the war, and that it's the most important war in a generation. Then driving around in your '91 Fort LTD with fourteen "patriotic" bumper stickers and telling everyone to put up or shut up.
beat you to it.
i don't donate anything to anyone except votevetsDOTorg, IAVA and move on. well the animal shelter but political, you know.
>And I’d like to know how you define “barest thing” and just what the hell Karl Rove has to do with accomplishing anything in congress as far as the Democrats go.
I'd define the "barest thing" as standing up for habeas corpus. Standing all the way up. Forcing a filibuster, not just doing the non-filibuster-filibuster hokey pokey.
The Karl Rove comment was about the danger of feeling that you basically need a one-party supermajority to effectively govern. That was his vision...for the Republicans.
You want 67 senators, the presidency and the congress? You'll need to hire a Democratic equivalent of that vampire. Then see what becomes of your precious party.
I tend to overlook most of this shit. Hell, 20 years ago nearly every Democrat would have voted with the Repubs. It sucks I'm sure, but we can't expect anything more from them. I try to keep in mind that most of the Dems are well right of me and you, but far enough left to be Liberal(barely). With that in mind, they did what they felt they needed to do, just as we would.
Besides, the ad was far more effective than anyone imagined, as evidenced by the reaction from the TURDS. I only hope MoveOn has more in store for the Repubs. It seems like they should be flush with cash right now. Thanks.
Jim @ 4:
I've believed that for years and have voted with practicality in mind. But at what point does it become obvious that practicality doesn't serve one's interests any more? What the heck is the difference between voting for a Repuke and voting for a Dem these days? I'm thinking: vote your conscience. It will make no fricking difference to anybody but you, anyway.
Our party needs discipline. The 21 traitors should be ashamed of themselves. Wanting to take the roofies from the "cool kids" at the mouth-breather bar. The moveon activists bust their ass every day against the Bush junta and get shit on by the establishment
motorfingaz @ 2:
--------------------
they are in the same place they were during the entire clinton whitewater blowjob... sitting on their hands, whistling nonchalontly, trying to not make problems for their masters.
JasonS @ 87:
I completely respect your point of view ... and I wish our country wasn't in such danger from the republicans (let alone the democrats) that I could feel that I can afford to vote my conscience. Voting my conscience may come with a consequence that I'm not prepared to face.
If my conscience told me that walking out of my job and quitting tomorrow was the absolute right thing to do, that may be exactly what I do. But at the same time I have to be prepared to face the reality of the consequences that will have on my live ... like I might just end up living under an overpass, just me and my principles. Voting your conscience is not a bad principle. I just want to defeat the republicans more than I want to be true to all of my principles. BUT, defeating the republicans is in itself defending many (while not all) of my principles. Because they are destroying this country.
marie @ 66:
Same here, probably the same donation email. I told them why, and unsubscribed. Also told Feinstein the same, then sent money to MoveOn. I really think it's beyond time to give the Republicks many doses of their own medicine, UNAPOLOGETICALLY, and tell them to go pound sand. Run more ads that stir up the shit, MoveOn, and I'll send you more money. Find a way to do something besides capitulate, Democrats, and I'll donate to you again. The FISA bill is key here, no retroactive immunity for the telcos, and no bad bill for Bush.
Fuck, just start by making them actually filibuster something. The general public thinks the Democrats are not doing anything! FIGHT BACK DAMMIT! Make John
Boehner cry again, but for real this time. I'll give you a $50 donation if you do that.
It's not a goddamn opposition party if they piss themselves every time the Bushists yell "Terra! Blood will be on your hands!" The answer is, "It's your watch, Commander Guy, find a way to do it within the legal parameters of the Constitution. THAT'S the American way. Screw this up, and it's YOUR fault."
Yeah, I hate to quote Chomsky, but he said something like the way to keep the public passive is to control and narrow the range of acceptable opinions, and then allow lively debate among the sanctioned opinions. I have noticed this every time the DNC sends me those solicitations and surveys. They have all these check boxes asking me to choose among the issues that are most important to me, and somehow they never even include the issues that are most important to me. The party needs a shake-up, and I think we have some changing landscape here with the Internet that may allow us to talk over the politicians' heads. Patraeus did betray us. Colin Powell did betray us. We need them to be loyal to the Constitution and provide us with uncooked books, but that is too much to ask right now. We are in a street fight.
The Democrats are rich like the Republicans. They want to hold onto power. They know there is a narrow margin of victory for either side in the U.S. Therefore, Democrats don't want to rock the boat...sadly.
TruthTeller @ 48:
JasonS @ 91:
I'll agree 100% with your first point. Your second point ... not so much. Hell, I'd be happy with 60 senators. I don't think we need a Karl Rove. I think the republicans needed him because they couldn't rely on truth or reason. They needed dirty tricks and propaganda because the truth just didn't cut it. I believe we are on the right side. I believe we can take our country back (to a moderate normalcy) with truth, reason, and education. We may need a Karl Rove to move the pendulum as far left as they moved it to the right. But I'm only interested in moving the pendulum back to left-center, not far left.
PurplePatriot @ 96:
just an observation purple, ummmm thats life not live!!!
tyree @ 101:
Dude ... excellent! I stand corrected.
Jim @ 4:
Please stop being an obtuse tool.
Support Darcy Burner. Support Donna Edwards. support MoveOn, BravenewFilms, BlogPac, etc...
But sheesh man... have some self-respect.
These guys betray you weekly... FISA, PATRIOT Act, Habeas, War, Impeachment, Accountability, no forced filibuster, etc. etc. etc.
And you're gonna keep empowering them.
Wow.
Sometimes the only thing that works is solidarity and a willingness to change. I sure wish you'd change your mind and come on board...
Never The Sinner
I need to object to the term "hater." It makes it sound like we have some irrational personal vendetta against the Dems.
I've voted Dem all my life. I don't hate the Dems. I hate weakness. I hate spinelessness. I hate cowardice. I hate what the Dems are DOING, but not the Dems themselves.
And I love my country, not any of its political parties. And I hate, HATE, what the TWO PARTIES are doing to my beloved country.
And I'll never leave. I'll never move to Canada. I will stay here and say so and say so and say so until I shuffle off this mortal coil.
Not out of petulance. Not out of spite. Out of love.
The more I hear justifications for what they are doing, and especially the more I hear the assertion that we all owe it to ourselves to continue supporting them...that our consciences are essentially not our own...the more that hatred will metastasize away from the sin and onto the sinner.
And I will never endorse the idea that one party needs to be able to bully the other utterly. One party rule is toxic. So is chemotherapy, so maybe we need a bit of that to cure us of this cancer.
But I *want* the Republican party to be legitimate, strong and to provide decent, principled counter-perspectives to my own.
That's healthy democracy. Bouncing back and forth between one supermajority and another as each corrupts itself further and further is no way to run a railroad.
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son. I say that out of love, not hate.
FINALLY You all are getting it here: the politicians need to know that WE THE PEOPLE aren't going to take it anymore!!
greg @ 14:
They can't be bothered to listen to their base - they are too busy listening to Faux News and the beltway effete elite spin.
They think we will just suck up and take it, while they try to capture the wingnut vote. Brilliant strategy, huh? /sarcasm
I gave the money I usually give to democratic candidates to Ron Paul.
But... but this sound wasn't sad. Why, this sound sounded glad. Every liberal outside the beltway, the tall and the small, was singing without any representation at all. Congress hadn't stopped MoveOn from coming, it came. Somehow or other, it came just the same.
And Congress, pleased with their craven sideshow,
Stood puzzling and puzzling: "How could it be so?
billofwrites @ 26:
Grow a spine and read the polls. The MoveOn ad did not adversely affect the Dems at all. The anti-war position has grown since the ad, not dropped.
Or don't grow a spine. If you don't, you'll be eligible to become a Dem congresscritter.
I am so on board. To get what you want in a deal, you have to be willing to walk away. Corporate money makes it pretty clear that they expect results. We should do the same.
MoveOn will do great things with my limited donations. And the Dems will be better if MoveOn is stronger. Stop enabling their capitulation.
And remember that a lot of us are on Democratic call lists. I gave one solicitor an extended earful about my Senator Klobushar voting for FISA the other week. I recommend other people do the same in the hope that somebody is tallying _why_ the calls aren't working.
Not-the-idiot Bill @ 107:
LOL!
One fish, two fish
Red criminal motherfucking graft-enabled Constitution shredding should be impeached just for starters fish
Blue fish.
And all the Whos in Whoville said:
F U, W!
The effing demos are so cowardly. The pugs say "BOO!" and they all back down. I am with MoveOn.Org or anyone else that has a spine. Not Leahy! I can't believe all the demo cowards that voted for the cronyn's disease amendment. Those who did will never see ONE RED CENT!
I decided this, too. Before I heard it from anyone else. I am sick to death of the Democrats and their whining. It is a shell game they are playing: first one will do the right thing, while another will do the wrong thing. Then they switch. Every single damn one of the presidential candidates (except Kusinich) does this. And the Congressional stooges are the same way.
For GOD'S sake -- even Webb and Tester -- who the blogs worked TIRELESSLY for -- voted to condemn MoveOn.
Enough. I gave my first donation to MoveOn yesterday, and from now on, they will get ALL my donating money.
Joe in Sf @ 109:
Not a bad point. But why did we all of the sudden decide to grow balls now? Why are we willing to walk away now, when the closest thing to a facist totalitarian regime this country has ever had is in power? Now we're willing to walk away from the best chance to end that regime? Now? You want to walk away now and leave those fuckers to their devices while we clean our own house? There is more at stake now than ever. Why didn't everyone decide that they and their principles would walk away from corrupt politicians when Bush I was in office? Or Reagan? Or even Clinton?
It's great that everyone has decided that all politicians suck ass, and we'd like to at least try to overthrow the money machines ruining our country. But shit, why did we wait so long until Stalin-lite was in power?
P.S. I put in $100
I'm on board. Here was my letter to my Senator sent earlier this morning:
I feel the need to express my extreme disappointment in the Senator's vote today to deny my Constitutional right to expression via the Cornyn Amdt. No. 2934.
I voted for you, Mr. Salazar, and feel ashamed today of that vote as I felt ashamed when you also chose to stand behind that incompetent Bush crony Alberto Gonzales for AG.
Move-On members worked their tails off to help the Democrats take back the House and this is how you reward them?
The Betray Us ad was factual in every point it made and is only being used by the Republicans as a distraction from their miserable records and the realities of the consequences of our occupation of Iraq. To enable them in the way you did today is beyond belief.
These are the same legislators that would deny the troops leave time on par with their service to our country which is above and beyond what any soldier should have to endure.
On that note I do salute your willingness to bring up the topic of defunding the war but actions speak louder than words, Senator.
One consequence of your vote today sir is my determination to channel ALL of my political contributions to Move-On and not to yourself or the Democrat (sic) Party. In fact, I just finished donating to Move-on just before writing you.
Also, please do not insult my intelligence by responding with yet another form letter full of blather and platitudes.
EJG @ 67:
============
I agree, Kucinich is the best candidate, the man who should be president. But he won't be allowed by the Powers That Be, cuz the candidate with the best corporate connections will win the White House. Our country is doomed.
Btw in their next ad MoveOn.org needs to put in big letters:
NOT ONE RED CENT!
MoveOn should urge everyone to withhold their donations to government until the government begins to obey the will of the people. See how they like THEM apples...
Can you believe Webb voted for this amendment? They're all not worth s*t!
Indigowatcher @ 117:
If he's truly the best candidate, then there is nothing that will stop him.
Rich people have run this country from the very beginning, mostly rich white people. That, in and of itself, is not what has us doomed. What has us doomed is the hateful, dirty propaganda of the neo-facist republicans. Their cavalier attitude about pissing away the constitution under the guise of patriotism and security ... that is what will doom us. That is what we must defeat. After we stop them, then I'll sign up for ways to eat the rich.
Now I want to make sure I understand EXACTLY what this amendment is all about... Can anyone explain it in detail?
PurplePatriot @ 114:
I'm not saying that Move On should go and beat up on Democrats. I want them to continue to beat up Republicks. That's what they do! We need to attack. What I believe we should be telling the Democratic pols is, fight back, dammit! If you truly represent me, you will fight back. If you do not, your tenure may be short. I will channel my donations to those who will most actively represent me. Right now, that is MoveOn.org, because they are willing to fight. Some don't agree with that ad, but I thought it was great. General Petraeus is not a perfectly fine example of an American General these days, precisely because he fudged, finessed, and cooked the numbers at the request of Lil' Boots. A liar is a liar, and no one gets my respect if I don't think they deserve it. No one, including our sainted military, is above criticism if they are wrong.
I'm not saying don't vote for Democrats, but make sure they know what you want them to do, as your representatives. Put your money wherever you want to.
Me, I'm in the mood for a fight, therefore, MoveOn gets my donations.
Me, I’m in the mood for a fight, therefore, MoveOn gets my donations. 123 - This Machine Kills Fascists
You and me both, friend. You and me both.
Indigowatcher - Maybe this will help you understand:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm...
Also see this C&L thread:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/09/20/hiding-behind-the-military-and-...
More than anything, you all should be pissed off at Reid for even allowing this resolution the light of day.
Senator Charles E. Schumer, Chair
DSCC
120 Maryland Ave., NE
Washington, DC 20002
Dear Senator Schumer;
I have in hand your letter of August 17th last asking for a donation to elect more Democratic Senators. I wanted to wait until after the testimony of General Petraeus and subsequent legislation to decide whether I would contribute.
Unfortunately, the performance of the Democrats in the Senate has been disappointing for two reasons. First, you conceded to the Republicans that votes on the Webb amendment and on the habeus corpus amendment would be withdrawn if they could not pass cloture. This means that the Republicans get the power of a filibuster without having to spend any effort actually putting on a filibuster. Even when all Democrats vote for cloture, and even when they get some Republicans on their side, it’s a free vote for those opposing cloture. They don’t have to stand up and actually argue their case and expose their weaknesses to the public. And, since we can all count votes, you knew ahead of time this is exactly what would happen. I’m sorry, but I do not regard that as the act of a courageous party.
Second and just as revealingly, 20 Democrats voted to condemn MoveOn.org for their ad in the NY Times. Once again the Democrats have allowed themselves to be bullied by the Republicans. Now, I understand that Republicans operate largely by inspiring fear in others because they themselves are perpetually afraid of damn near everything. However, many of them are also insane. They put on a pretty face, but the contradictory beliefs and irrational fears they have mark them as way out at the end of the sanity Bell curve. Being insane is a pretty good excuse for irrational behavior. The 20 Democratic Senators, on the other hand, have convictions but no courage. They know better, but they ended up voting with the psychos.
Words suitable for family viewing cannot begin to describe the disappointment I feel in the Democratic Senate. You’re not fighting, you’re just trying to look like you’re fighting. You know what’s right and you won’t fight. You’ve got 70% of the country behind you and you still won’t fight. A million people have died since this war started and the only bill you can pass is a pearl-clutcher.
I’m sending the amount you suggested, $125, but I’m sending it to MoveOn.org. Call me back when you’re ready to fight.
How about giving it to Green Party candidates. Go to http://www.gp.org to find greens who are running for office. It doesn't have to be for national elections.
Just sent $100 to MoveOn. And I won't send any money to the Dems.
Well, that's the problem. They ARE standing up for what they believe in -- the status quo.
I know many of you have been inspired to invest in MoveOn, with good intent. But it would probably be quicker to cut out the middle-men and send your money directly to Hillary and her ilk, as that's where MoveOn's efforts will certainly be directed in 2008.
I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. I donated to MoveOn for the first time in years, because of the ridiculous condemnation by the Senate.
But -- I still will continue to contribute to the campaigns of Democrats, especially those likely to upset incumbent Repubs, such as Gordon Smith, my Senator in Oregon, who can't seem to make up his mind to do the right thing instead of the right wing thing. Even Ms. Clinton voted against it, knowing full well that the bulldozer of criticism would be ready and waiting to come after her.
Well, I'm not entirely in agreement or disagreement with most people commenting on this thread. I just think the answer is somewhere in the middle between "Fuck the dems" and capitulation to shitty representation.
I hope MoveOn can do what you hope they can. I certainly don't have a problem with calling a spade a spade. If the repubs are being lying hypocrites, then someone needs to call them out, and call them out brutally. John Stewart does a good job of that, but only spends 20 minutes a week doing it. Olbermann is good too, but only for 150 minutes a week. More is better. I'm all for going on the attack against the republican hate and propaganda machine. So you and I agree.
I sent money to Moveon tonight. This afternoon I called our new Senator Amy , she who disappoints, Klobuchar and reminded her how I had, through Moveon's computer system, dialed my fingers to the bone on her behalf. And I told her how much I appreciated the slap in the face she gave me and Moveon.
She voted against the troops and with the republicans on funding, she voted against the people and with the republicans on that FISA travisty. And each time came home here to Minnesota with a lame excuse, she couldn't stomach what Bush would do to the troops if funding was cut off, she had to vote for FISA because she would have been criticized if she hadn't. Now this, I am not even going to try learn her excuse this time.
MagnificentAppendage @ 126:
I'm with you there. Especially given the way the repubs ran congress. But there are those who will condemn for wanting to be like them.
Stupidity goeth before a fall. I can't understand the logic behind lambasting Democrats--especially when the party has such a slim hold on Congress--when Republicans remain the problem. As a wise commenter said upthread, this sort of thing reeks of a "might as well vote for Nader" mentality. I know more than a few of my progressive friends confessed that they didn't see a dime's worth of difference between Gore and Bush in 2000. They are singing a different tune now.
Really, Kucinich the best candidate? Have you people lost your minds? Are you drunk with some sort of false power? Flame me if you will, but all this sort of talk will do is cripple the Democrat--whoever that person may be--who seems to have a good chance to win in 2008. Already I've read comments here and elsewhere by so-called progressives who vow to oppose Clinton every step of the way, ignoring the fact that she probably has the best chance of any Democrat of winning. Does anyone think she'd lead the country into a pointless war? Wire tap her fellow Americans? Appoint loons to federal court judgeships? I don't.
Clinton--or Obama, or Edwards--would have the gravity to pull the country back toward the center, and eventually a bit left of center if Democratic control of Congress is enhanced. How would that not be a good thing?
MagnificentAppendage @ 126:
Amen, brother (or sister).
$30
Its definitely brother. Hello.. MagnificentAPPENDAGE
I just gave my first wad o' cash Moveon.
As our enemies have found we can reason like men,
so now let us show them we can fight like men also.
Thomas Jefferson
Never donated before but you can bet your ass I WILL NOW!!
Thanks Repukes for reminding me
Otay @ 136:
Its definitely brother. Hello.. MagnificentAPPENDAGE
To see Reid say that most Democrats are not behind the ad was a wince moment in Democratic weakeness, one of many.
I'm always thinking Reid throws up great rebuttals that prove there is no opposition willing to take these people on. He and Pelosi are almost useless.
Where the hell is a bulldog when you most need one?
I'm glad this happened before I made my annual political contributions, because I'm not giving these sellouts one damned dime this year. MoveOn.org will get some of what I would've given to the Democratic Party, and I'll split the rest between a few other worthwhile groups.
A commenter above argued that the only chance we have to regain control of the country, is through the election of Hillary or Obama and that working for or supporting the likes of Kucinich is like a vote for Nader.
The problem is that this commenter doesn't really understand who has control of Hillary and Obama or even BushCo, apparently. I would suggest to that commenter that they take the time to read her health care plan, very closely. It is nothing more than a massive payday for insurance companies, and even Hillary will not say that there will be no penalties in the future for not having insurance.
Can you imagine what these companies will do to people once they have the rule of law firmly in hand? The premiums will be outragous, and people will have to pay.
Milton Friedmans "Chile" Project is coming here to America and these DLC sellout's are part of their plan.
>Stupidity goeth before a fall. I can’t understand the logic behind lambasting
>Democrats–especially when the party has such a slim hold on Congress–when Republicans
>remain the problem.
Right. Republicans remain the problem. That's the problem.
So, REPUBLICANS brought that ridiculous resolution to the floor? REPUBLICANS single-handedly voted for its passage? REPUBLICANS kept the Democrats to 28 votes to defund? REPUBLICANS back down to the very hint of a veto?
This isn't mindlessly bashing the Democrats. This is imploring them to do what is right.
I don't want to walk away from the Dems. I don't want to give this country to the Rethugs.
But as another commentator pointed out, you never get what you want from anyone (including an ally) if they know you'll never bolt, that your loyalty is absolute and that the common enemy is enough to keep you in line.
I'm done living in fear of the Republican party. I want to support real opposition.
And I want it to be the Democrats.
But I have standards. Sorry. And I'm not saying that supporters don't; I know they do.
But if I was inclined to abandon my standards for political expediency and a shot at power, well, then I'd be a Republican.
Donate to MoveOn and the Democratic candidate of your choice. If you have to, try and find a Democrat that you can support other than the one who's currently in office. Yes, support someone who will run against the incumbent in the primary!
The phrase, "Throw the bastards out!" doesn't just mean the opposition party.
In response to an earlier query, there was no impeachment vote on Nixon. He retired first. However the votes that were taken to set up the committees to investigate the Watergate activites, both House and Senate, are telling. The House vote was 410-4; the Senate vote was 77-0. There are limitations today that were not present in Nixon's time as regards impeachment or, for that matter, the war (Vietnam/Iraq). That being said this latest failure to act with some semblance of strength is mindboggling. With such a clear mandate, backed up by vitually every poll in existence, to succumb to inertia when faced with the intransigence of our village idiot made king seems impotence itself. But then again so are most of the people of this country who have been convinced that government is something that "happens" to them, much like the weather. I think the democratic party is more representative then one might imagine given in this latest vote. It's not that the Democrats want the war to be over that is the problem, it just that not enough of them want to take responsibility for ending it. But this too is to one dimensional. The news media is clearly complicit in the dumbing down of the American public.
I think the idea of refusing to give money to the Democratic party committees is understandable, attractive and just, but it is not necessarily going to achieve the result we want. I think it is time we ask some very serious questions about what has gone so terribly wrong. Something(s) is driving this process forward to insane results. For instance half the America fleet is about to launch a massive bombing campaign against Iran and it seems like nothing will stop it despite the fact that it will drive us deeper into debt, exacerbate our existing military debacle, further erode the image of America around the world, threaten the world's supply of oil driving up prices while were heading into a potential economic tsunami,and oh, let us not forget, they won't take nuclear weapons off the table. How can anyone not know this is the wrong idea and there is never a time for it. It's more than just the Democrats that are the problem so you won't fix it by not funding them
Yeah, you go tell 'em! Better the GOP in control of Congress than those Democrats, huh?
I am SO in!
They have the power of the purse to stop this war, (inaction IS filibuster proof, by the way) and they can use it if they want. They choose not to despite the overwhelming majority that want the war stopped. IT's shameless and unforgivable.
This is not like Nadar or any of that: we need alot of troops out of Iraq soon so that Bush doesn't have a jumping off force for an invasion of Iran. The clock is ticking, and we need any and all motivaiton (i.e., $$$) to get the Dems to step up. The pres. election will be too late.
It is well known that politicians sometimes speak in code. This time I interpret their actions as a dire cry for Americans to donate tons of money to MoveOn.org, the one political organization with the balzones to call whore a whore.
Kudos, MoveOn. You have earned major points for real Americans.
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