All Saints 1, IRS 0
By Steve Benen Sunday Sep 23, 2007 9:01pm
Shortly before the 2004 presidential election, the Rev. George F. Regas, the former rector of All Saints Episcopal Church in Pasadena, told his congregation about his perspective on the president and the war in Iraq. Regas imagined Jesus participating in a political debate with Bush and Kerry and said that “good people of profound faith” could vote for either man.
He added, however, that he imagined Jesus telling Bush, “Mr. President, your doctrine of preemptive war is a failed doctrine. Forcibly changing the regime of an enemy that posed no imminent threat has led to disaster.” The comments prompted the IRS to launch an aggressive investigation into the church’s alleged partisan conduct.
Last week, the investigation ended — and All Saints is in the clear.
The Internal Revenue Service has told a prominent Pasadena church that it has ended its lengthy investigation into a 2004 antiwar sermon, church leaders said Sunday.
The next question is whether the IRS went after the progressive church out of some kind of partisan vendetta.
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Whens the last time the IRS went after the 700 club?
I remember hearing about this at the time. More intimidation designed to cow the masses.
Bastards.
*
Of course it was.
Surely they investigated the thousands, many thousands of churches that preached that Bush was the christian way to vote, right?
One of the primary indicators of a fascist state is a state who will prosecute those who dare to question it.
The next question is whether the IRS went after the progressive church out of some kind of partisan vendetta.
YA THINK???
L.A. Confidential @ 1:
Excellent point.
(thepoetryman #4 too)
"The next question is whether the IRS went after the progressive church out of some kind of partisan vendetta."
Question?
Are you serious?
Being against the Iraq war is no longer limmited by party affiliation.
Still the Minister came close to endorcing a candidate which is strictly forbidden.
None the less I am glad Rev. Regas and the Church are ok.
Heck Bush didn't have any problem with blowing every Mosque in Iraq off the face of earth.
Noooooooooooooo, it was mere coincidence. Republicans = thugs
Never mind the 100s of "churches" that openly supported Bush, not to mention receive federal tax dollars. Guess they didn't warrant an investigation.
Read
http://www.almartinraw.com/public/column327.html
Unfortunate, it would have set a precedent and we could have started taxing all religious institutions like the businesses they are.
L.A. Confidential @ 1:
The 700 club.
James Dobson.
Ted ( Speed Freak) Haggard.
Falwell’s organization.
Ralph Reed.
Tony Perkins.
And every other right wing Jesus freak that spews the talking points from Rove’s mouth to the congregation.
Yes, the IRS had to drop this case (much to their chagrin) because if they prosecuted the Episcopal Church it would have opened the door to stop the huge Evangelical movement from taking over our government, as it has.
Sure it was a partisan attack, but they had to cut off their attack so they could try to remain in power.
I plan on starting to attend church's in the lead up to the 2008 Elections (I'll just have to grit my teeth) and bring a recorder with me.
I think we should all do this and if we find anything, make copies and mail it in to as many media outlets as we can.
Peace
Does the average Republican think that 2007 is a better America than 1987 or 1977? The only thing I see in greater abundance today is hate and intolerance and the barrier between church and state being eroded. We've spent close to eight trillion dollars more than we've collected over the past thirty years and what do we have to show for that debt?
Columnist Bob Herbert also noted that the IRS started investigating the NAACP after its endorsement of Kerry and basically equating voting GOP to voting for the Confederacy
No matter how many requests for Farwell, (before he died) Robertson, and Dobson for their tax free status and their blatant partisanship of the republicans, absolutely nothing has been done to investigate them.
We have a mega church in Minneapolis were the paster stood dipshit Bachman up in front of the congregation and told people to vote for her. She won but not by much. On top of that he runs the church remember, so he bought a boat, car, several house and an airplane for the church, that the church members pay for. He then leased them back to himself at hardly 1/10 of the cost. He has been reported over and over to the IRS, the govenment and Rachel Paulson. Nobody..not one agency has investigated him. Did I mention he donates to the republicans.
Smack_dab @ 17:
Britney Spears
Actually, I've been waiting to see if anyone ELSE had problems with the IRS. This year, I paid more taxes than I ever have, & am constantly getting bills for taxes I've paid, & untold late fees on my paid taxes, coming from 4 or 5 offices cross country,...
I wanted to see if this was a running theme,...
Smack_dab @ 17:
Low low prices on useless shit you do not need, with a slight chance of killing you because it was produced in a country with virtually no oversight on their industry (ie: China), yet you feel compelled to buy it.
L.A. Confidential @ 13:
Wow...thanx for the link. Talk about late-night scary reading.
I myself think it is unconstitutional for any government to provide religious organizations tax free status. Think of how much better off each person would be if their taxes went down at all levels because religious institutions had to pay taxes.
Schools could have proper funding. Police & fire departments wouldn't have to scrape for their funding. Life would be a lot better.
JohnnyThief @ 21:
Yes it is. I got a notice that I underpaid my '05 taxes, as did at least three of my friends. Apparently, Bush wants to take back his $300
bribetax check he gave you a few years ago.amen to what phoenix justice says.
Tax all the bible beating bastards.
all the conjecture in the world doesn't amount to anything. the democratic party needs to get the best lawyers available to determine whether the action was partison and whether right wing church groups have spoken out against liberal candidates and causes. if their findings show afftirmative, then they have to go full force with a civil suit..or better, why don't we just whine and cry in our beer. then again, i'm no lawyer so what do i know.
Maybe taxing churches would cut back on religious fundamentalism? If government enabling it has caused it to spread...
have courage and remember, "as long as good men do nothing..."
Blue Buddha @ 22:
Serves that fuckin church to be thinking like that. We all know Jesus was a pro-war, neocon with an excellent backspin on bermuda tiff (Nazareth Fairway 33 BC) .
Of course! Rove/Cheney/Bush were and are vindictive assholes. Its very easy to send a memo to a Bushie at the IRS when you've systematically politicized every facet of our government.
The story says "the former rector " of All Saints Church . I would hope that his sermon did not lead to his dismissal . He's one of the few voices of the clergy who actually ask " What would Jesus do ? "
There was also the church-I think it was in South Carolina-where the pastor threatened to throw anyone out of the church that didn't vote for Bush. I have never heard anything about whether the IRS investigated that church. I also think that churches should pay taxes since most of them seem to be getting involved in politics and they aren't suppose to if they want to keep their tax exemptions.
Fuck the IRS for being Bush's mafia thugs . Heads need to roll over this Pinochetism
Man, oh man...
Truly we live in Bizarro Superman world.
The best center in the NBA's Chinese, most successful rapper's white, the greatest golfer is black... and the Church is being persecuted for presenting empirical fact.
Jerry @ 23:
Yes it does make for interesting reading. I hope people in the US take it seriously instead of treating it as Democratic propoganda.
the answer to the question is a resounding YES. they completely ignored all the gop operations to bolster the gop vote in both the 2000 and 2004 elections. once again we see bush/cheney and the gop's hypocracy proving they want a fascist dictatorship in the United States.
The sermon in question is a good one.
Besides this damning statement: Jesus does win! And I don’t intend to tell you how to vote.
Then there is a lot of yada yada yada about taking how Jesus wants us to take care of the poor, the elderly, the children - and what Jesus would encourage Kerry and bush to do. And then he goes on and encourages his parishoners to vote with their heart. And this compares to the smack coming from the pulpit of the Evangelical righties?
I smile at this beautiful church each time I drive by it.
Hey, I'll tell you the truth - I have been afraid to sign certain petitions lest my name gets on some Bush black list - not that I'm a high roller - but those guys will punish whoever they can for opposing them. Being audited by the IRS is not fun. I think lots of people are afraid. I think that is why there are not more anti-war protests. People don't want to get thrown in jail.
George Bush deserves to rot in hell for eternity for the damage he has done to our country.
What is wrong with these people who work for the IRS? They have to be ordinary Americans. Who is pushing their buttons? Don't people get it long about now? This administration is going to be America's undoing.
Dr. Regas was NOT dismissed. He retired in 1998 after 27 years, but returns a couple of times a year to preach because he is so beloved by the congregation. George Regas is the real deal - a man who truly lives his faith. He stood firm against the Vietnam War and went to jail and his car was firebombed when he announced All Saints was a pro-choice church. He's also down with same-sex marriage. I've been a parishoner there since '96, and believe me, it's a real oasis.
Phoenix Justice @ 24:
There is a Christian Scientist college in the town next to where I work. I work in a sandwich shop, and they usually bring all their dumb kids in on Sunday for a sandwich(and end up causing such a problem bitching about their order that we end up making them a few extra subs for free every week). The other day three faculty members from the college came in and ordered lunch, then remembered after the fact that they were tax-exempt, so we had to void everything out and re-ring up their order to include their religious tax-exemption.
We gave them back 84 cents. They insisted that they would absolutely not pay whatever taxes were included, and caused a huge hassle and paperwork for us because they wouldn't let 84 cents go towards a secular government. There religious people are insane and completely shameless about it.
Of course it was partisan. But I'm happy this is over.
Buck Fush,Man with no honor
Ed Bacon and George Regas are men of principle and men of peace. I heard George deliver this sermon in October 2004, and if you read it you'll see it's even-handed: both Kerry and Bush were speaking in favor of war at the time. George is a long-time campaigner against nuclear weapons, and for Justice. Ed is also about Peace (he and George get arrested at peace rallies), Justice, and Inclusiveness: he has been one of Gene Robinson's most outspoken supporters. Archbishop Desmond Tutu has been a regular visitor, as well, calling All Saint's "a home away from home."
This is a well-deserved victory for a very liberal church with a progressive congregation. I am very pleased to hear that the futile and rather hopeless investigation is over.
CD @ 9:
What are you talking about.Right wing churches,their brain dead supporters with tears in their eyes,always endorse Rethugs.
About a year ago, the church (or someone) put an anti-war sign out front. I drove by several days later and vandals had ripped the sign up and left it laying in front of the church. I found myself disgusted to see that. Either the pro-war or re-thugs just don't allow freedom of speech when someone disagrees with their position. It is hypocrisy every time Bush talks about the terrorists are jealous of american democracy.
From what was written he did not endorse anyone.
He said both were ok and then questioned Bush's war policy.
Just like a reporter or citizen of the state is allowed to do.
That is not endorsing. Had he said 'since Bush is a war monger bent on destroying us all, so you should vote Kerry'.. that is endorsing.
iF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE WAR,STOP PAYING TAXES, sell all property;put your money in offshore or Swiss bank accounts.If we all did this I guarantee the war would end soon.Also boycott things they sell on CNN;.FOX;abc;cbs;nbc;WaPo;NYT,UNLESS THE msm is going to start telling the truth,and covering Kucinich,and Gravel
Another impact you can make is get your families and friends to have a lean Christmas-- one moderate inexpensive gift to each child.SAVE MONEY;DON`T USE CREDIT CARDS.If you can`t afford it don`t buy it.
Don`t buy stuff you or your family doesn`t need.Stop watching tv.Drive less.Carpool to the mall.Give books about the Constitution.DO NOT BUY THINGS OFFERED ON programs that support endless war,munitions,or programs that condone torture,lack of habeas corpus,or support illegal wire tapping,and the illegal spying on Americans.
This is just a start. Have a happy,non-hectic Christmas
Fixed!
Say. I wonder if the IRS has looked into the church from Jesus Camp?
I wonder what the defense is there? "Hey, they were babbling Pentecostal nonsense to that cardboard idol of George Bush; you can't prove they were endorsing them!"
Can't tell you how many stories I heard about conservative Christians using church as a political sancutary with ministers preaching to their flocks about who they should vote for. Did any of them have the IRS showing up on their doorstep? Since when did Jesus promote war? Obviously that church was targeted. The Bushies have eyes everywhere. Big Brother is watching.
Indigowatcher @ 28:
The IRS shouldn't make special exemptions to the tax code for churches. Special laws and exemptions for churches aren't allowed anyhow, and they seem to just muck stuff up. This IRS crap was obviously politically motivated, there were thousands of right-wing churches very actively shilling for Bush, and holding out tax-exempt status like a stick and carrot of control is pathetic.
Tax the churches and let them say whatever they want.
An effective intimidation tactict. Any pastor will think twice before saying anything the least bit critical about the Bush admin from the pulpit.
mls @ 40:
they work for the man the true man. seen America: Freedom to Fascism? what a bunch of fascist pigs.
The Busheviks have shown that they will use any means to achieve their ends.
This is no different. Politics is a dirty game which is why so many are repulsed.
...
All churches should be taxed.
what about all the churches who said don't vote for Kerry?
L.A. Confidential @ 13:
This is some scary stuff LA....I've always thought that there would be a recession when the dimwit leaves.
This church might have won the battle the IRS won the larger war. How many ministers were silenced in the wake of this case?
Tax all the government-subsidized welfare churches.
How much of OUR money did the gov't waste on this???
Congrats, All Saints. Another victory for free speech.
Working the phone bank at the LA County Democratic Party in early November of 2004, a call comes in from a young, black woman who says that her minister had told the congregation that they will go to Hell if they vote for Kerry, because he is not a "Christian".
Wasn't it about a billion dollars that Bush gave out to that "faith-based initiative" just before the election?
Have they gone after all those churches who participated in "Justice Sunday?"
Why come hasn't Falwell, Robertson, Dobson, Perkins et al or those Catholic priests who weren't JFK's but said they wouldn't give him communion been investigated by the IRS?
Some yankees say Catholic like it were Catlick, and we all know where cats lick themselves.
Rusty Shackleford @ 61:
But then wouldn't they have to tax ALL charities?
The argument behind Jimmy Swaggart Ministries v. Board of Equalization was that most of what he was selling was non-charitable, non-religious and therefore taxable, despite his protestations.
Thank you, Rev. Regas, for speaking up. All it takes for evil to persist is for good men to do nothing. What you said took great courage and the convictions of your faith.
ysbaddaden @ 67:
Nope. All it would take is a little tweak of the tax code.
I see that several other comments have alluded to the obvious disparity between the application of the IRS code as it relates to folks like John Hagee and other fatass GOP supporting "preachers" nationwide.
This is just typical Bush administration political dirty tricks against churches that DO NOT go with the official line of the ruling junta.
I assume that was a rhetorical question. Of course the IRS was harassing All Saints. And using government enforcement agencies to "get" someone who dares to challange the President is only partisan if Bill did it.
My wife left a church who's minister told the congregation that one couldn't be a Christian and a Democrat. That same church had Republican literature on a table in the entry the last time we attended a wedding there. When I mentioned it to a deacon, he laughed.
Oh yea... I'm just sure that was all totally worth blowing a wad of our tax money on.... Vendettas? Ya think? LAconfidential@ 1 is spot on....
I'd like to suggest, if we need to blow tax money on investigations of the partisan political activities of tax exempt religous organizations, the 700 club is perfect place to start.....JD
MP @ 63:
The problem is churches don't have free speech. It's part of the compromise whereby the US government gives them tax breaks for being "religious" and they don't get to talk about politics. It's a shotty system. Churches should be taxed just like any other business and nobody should have any power to stop them from saying whatever they want.
sully18 @ 46:
Two wrongs have yet to make a right.
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